Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Shooters FORM Board => Topic started by: jjwaldman on August 27, 2012, 08:39:00 PM
-
I shoot a 45lb recurve, Damon Howatt Hi-Speed. When I draw, I lock up an inch or two short of anchor (behind cheekbone under my ear). It feels like 100 pounds once I hit this spot. If I shut my eyes or look away from the spot I want to hit, I can draw straight to anchor with ease. Anybody have tips to fix this problem? I also have problems releasing before I am locked in at anchor.
I have tried doing some drills where I pull past anchor, where I anchor and then go away from the bulls-eye and back to it. Maybe I just need to continue the drills for a while without actually releasing an arrow.
Any tips?
-
Try NOT worrying about the target until after reaching full draw. You don't shoot a gun by aiming first then loading the gun and shooting. I feel that too many get so focused on aiming before they start to draw that these symptoms happen.
Draw the bow THEN aim and shoot.
Arne
-
You are correct Arne. I have picked a spot and am aiming the entire draw cycle. I have tried to draw without picking a spot, then move to the bulls-eye, but I shoot terrible when I do it.
-
-
Try drawing to a solid anchor and then aim about 3 or 4 seconds and let down. Do this about 5 to 10 times and then go put the bow in the house. You have to teach yourself that releasing the arrow is not the end goal. Then you can release at your own pace whether that involves a touch and go or deliberate hold.
-
I will give that a shot. Any more ideas moebow?
-
Blank bale or blind bale would help you a ton, but it has to be disciplined and you cannot cheat at it. The full process can take day's to weeks to work thru, so not something you try and rush.
-
Just this. Have you tried calling Joel Turner (Clickerman)? He may be able to give you some ideas.
That said, you say; " I have tried to draw without picking a spot, then move to the bulls-eye, but I shoot terrible when I do it.
You have to ask yourself whether you are shooting worse by short drawing and/or "locking up," or when you don't aim until after reaching full draw.
How long did you try the technique of aiming AFTER reaching full draw? It took you some time to develop the problem you ask about so it will take some time to "fix" it. If you are trying a new technique, one or two practice sessions will NOT give you a fair trial. It takes most folks about 21 solid practice sessions to actually know if a new technique will work or not. Put another way, if you shoot 3 times a week, 21 practice sessions will take nearly 2 months.
There are NO one day fixes for anything that is worth "fixing."
Arne
-
Arne, could it have anything to do with left eye dominant, right hand draw?
-
Yes, cross dominance COULD be a factor. Many shoot this way with success though. You could try shooting a few times with your left eye closed, or if wearing glasses, put a piece of scotch tape over the left lens to test it.
It seems to me that your first challenge will be to remedy the short drawing or "locking up" problem. Do some blank bale work where you just concentrate on making the draw and release without regard to where the arrow goes. 5 feet is far enough. Most TP issues are a result of trying to hit something and allowing that concentration to destroy your shot. My advice is that your form is the MOST important (getting a good shot off cleanly) and that aiming and hitting something is the LEAST important. If you have confidence in getting the arrow into flight, hitting becomes MUCH easier.
Arne
-
Ok, now I need to find some hay!!!
-
One problem I have had when solving the short-draw locking-up problem is substituting one problem for another. I lock up because something about completing the shot makes me nervous. I can make myself come to full draw if I focus on that aspect of the shot alone, but the nervousness doesn't go away. So "I shoot terrible when I do it," because rather than short drawing, the nervousness shifts someplace else, and I begin to tense my bow hand or string hand/forearm, pull the release, or something else.
The real solution is to get rid of the underlying nervousness, which Clickerman or Kidwell can certainly help with. But while you're working on that, also look for other errors that might be creeping in that make you shoot terrible, and solve them one by one. This is a useful, though frustrating exercise, because it probably won't occur to you that you could be tensing your string forearm if you haven't been doing that before, but once you learn to recognize it, it becomes much easier to correct in the future.
-
Originally posted by TSHOOTER:
Try drawing to a solid anchor and then aim about 3 or 4 seconds and let down. Do this about 5 to 10 times and then go put the bow in the house.
Love that...
Gonna try it tonight...until my pre-anchor TP goes away. Thanks!
-
So I did some scouting and brought the bow along. I would draw to anchor, aim, and then let down. I did this dozens of times. It has definitely helped. I am also trying to break up my draw into segments. Draw to anchor, push to target/aim, expand/pull, release. I am not super accurate, but I am not having quite the TP problem, and my release is much better. My draw has also started to become smoother. I will continue with this training regiment.
Moebow, any flaws in my regiment?
-
No, no problems. Breaking the TP should be your first chore. Work your routine for a while and do not try to hit a target, just use it to catch arrows. Many times it is the desire to hit the bull's eye that leads us to concentrating so much on the target that we loose the steps of the form.
You need to break the TP cycle before hitting anything really becomes possible. Also, I find that many can learn to keep their thoughts in shot execution and let the subconscious do the aiming. That is why aiming is usually recommended to start AFTER getting to full draw.
Arne
-
I'll add this. Below is a response I just made to a friend of mine on this subject. It proposes a slightly different way of thinking about and executing a shot. It MAY or MAY NOT work for all but is offered as an IDEA to think about. The "Rod" referred to is Rod Jenkins who runs (In my opinion) the best archery clinic around. Just a different way to attack that darn TP issue.
Here is my position on this, FWIW. We as a community are way too obsessed with aiming at the expense of form. The 3 under vs. split debate will never end but these two"styles" really are nothing more than accommodations made for aiming style and have nothing really to do with form. Those that claim a better release or better form with one or the other styles are actually "discovering" something that doesn't exist. In a nut shell, 3 under reduces gaps compared to split. Once you get to the "aiming" step in your shot routine, that is where your conscious is at that time, you set the "sight picture" you want (regardless of aiming method) and mentally move on tho the next step. This "moving on" is what relegates the aiming to the subconscious and you aren't really concentrating on it any more. So, if instinctive, you do whatever you do for sight picture or visual concentration; if gapping, you set the gap you want; or even if using a sight you look at the target and let the pin float; BUT THEN you "move on." Moving on to the next mental step places the aiming part into the subconscious -- and at this time you must trust the subconscious -- kind of like Rod's example of "trusting the guy in back." If you have to "check" on the guy in back, you have lost the shot.
Unlike Rod though, I advocate trusting the "guy in back" to do the aiming rather than trusting him to do the more complicated and lengthy job of running the shot routine. I trust him with the simple step rather than the more complicated one. If you use the guy in back for the shot routine that is when he will try to do it faster or more "efficiently" and he will start to try to skip steps. This (in my opinion) is the short route to full blown TP. If you are consciously thinking about the "steps" you cannot skip or shorten steps, only the subconscious can do that and that is where folks suffering from TP loose control of the shot. If the subconscious has only one job (step) to do, it CAN NOT skip steps -- there are just no steps to skip.
Arne
-
jjwaldman,
Please give me a call at 253-686-3623.
Talk to you soon,
Joel Turner
-
Hey Arne,
Thanks to some advice I received from you a while back I now do my aiming after coming to full draw and anchoring. As soon as the arrow comes onto target my shot is on its way. Is that how it should play out or should I have another stage in between acquiring my sight picture and release?
If Feel like I should (if anything just to slow things down) but I am hitting well at this point .... Always looking to improve more though.
-
Rossco...
If that is working for you then that is what you should do. If you are comfortable that you are on target, there is nothing more you need to do but get the shot off.
The whole point is getting to a good and solid anchor then aiming (by whatever style you use), the only thing left is release/follow through. Which to me means that your last thoughts are there and not on aiming. As I say above, your subconscious aims very well and has only one step to do -- that of aiming. This frees the conscious to execute the shot. How long that takes is not really important. You will be able to shoot as fast or slow as the conditions require.
Arne
-
Take away the active aiming part of your shot sequence. It's the last thing you should focus on.
-
Thanks Arne. What is your mental checklist as you work your way through the shot sequence?
-
Hey Rossco7002,
You have the same TP that I have - the pre-anchor kind that comes when you begin to aim as you draw. I can come to full draw and hold all day if I don't aim.
I also tried the other way, as most on here have said, to come to full draw and then aim afterwards. Sure enough, I soon developed a different kind of TP - the kind that appears to afflict those who use sight pins where you are unable to bring the pin (or in my case, the tip of the arrow) to align with the target after full draw. So beware of that.
If you haven't already, give Joel (Clickerman) a call. He explains really well what is going on psychologically with our minds when it comes to TP. Dr. Jay Kidwell's book also gives a great explanation as to what's going psychologically, and the two both appear on the "Masters of the Barebow Volume III" DVD series and talk about TP.
I'll tell you this - I spoke with Joel a few months ago, and the very next day my TP went completely away. I was able to shoot and actually enjoy shooting without the frustration of TP rearing its ugly head! Unfortunately, the TP returned again, but I'm trying to keep it in check by remembering my conversation with Joel and reviewing the notes I wrote while speaking with him. So I still have a lot of work to do, and like Moebow said, it's not something that you can easily fix from one day to the next. Definitely call Joel if you get a chance. He can explain it much better than I can.
-
Rossco, I wasn't ignoring you, just saw your last question -- sorry.
What works for me: When I raise the bow, my bow hand lifts in line (vertically) with the target and never deviates from it. The arrow line is oriented to the left (right handed shooter) and as I draw and my string hand comes to anchor the arrow (NOT the bow hand -- it's already there) moves into alignment with the target. I control the "aim" with the string, the bow hand is simply pointed at the target. Once I'm at anchor, a quick check (mental) that I am on target and my mind goes to my string hand and I start to think "relax the fingers" I DO NOT think "shoot now."
I find this simple and effective. I've shot like this for many years and happily, never had a TP issue. If a positive thought process for control of the shot isn't working for you, Joel is still available to talk to you and I recommend you give him a call.
Arne
-
Agreed with all above good advice. I find I like to end my practice with one good shot that I can feel good about and visualize over and over. It really is a confidence boost when you go to your next session with that shot in mind.