Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Shooters FORM Board => Topic started by: Jakeemt on May 15, 2013, 12:09:00 AM
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Hey fella the new guy asking questions again. I have been shooting every day for since January and I was wondering how long it took you guys to develope some accuracy. I can currently shoot a pie plate at fifteen if I really focus. Just wondering ow far off I am and how long it took you folks.
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Your best bet is to take lessons or get together with some good shooters. It will shorten the learning curve a lot! I took lessons when I shot compound and was a very good shot. I transferred the fundamentals over to trad and it helped a lot. I recently attended a clinic with Rod Jenkins and thst was an eye opener! You can learn on your own, but it helps to have help.
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A long time for me :)
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I agree with Skip. You want to take lessons or take up with other trad shooters before you develop bad habits. Just take your time, don't push yourself and most important, just have fun!! :thumbsup:
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if you don't have some help from someone who knows what they are doing it can take some timeI read Byron Furgusons book become the arrow it helped a lot. do you know if you have the right arrows an is your bow properly tuned?I don't know where you are in the procsse or how new you are this is why I asked.
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Pie plate at 15 yards is not too bad at all if you do it consistent. That is better than a lot of people shoot. I been at it a long time and I don’t shoot that well some days when shooting the same target repetitively for groups. Lessons are a great thing if you can find a class you can get to.
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I think sometimes you can practice too much trying to force yourself to shoot better.I did the same thing about 20 years ago,shooting every day.Then I took a few weeks off and returned to shoot better.I really like the book by Jay Kidwell,Instinctive Archery Insights.It was a great help to me!There are many other good books.I think develop your form and don't over do your practice.It's better to shoot 10 good arrows then to go out and shoot 50-60 arrows.
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I like the "lessons" idea but not so much the other shooters. I'd even be careful where I took lessons. There are some lesson-givers who have target panic but who hide it while teaching.
BE careful about mimicking the form of casual shooters. There are a lot of habits some folks have that might work for them (many don't) but would be poor advice.
From what ever distance you can hit that pie plate every time you'll be fine on whitetail-size game. The average white-tail deer killed with recurves is about 14 yards. Its been that way for 40 years at least.
I DON'T give lessons to lay people (so I'm not after a client here) but if you PM me I'll provide some advice regarding DVDs.
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I picked up a video and did a lot of reading. Then slowly but surely over the course of a summer taught myself to shoot.
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Here's a drill I teach , Get a blank sheet of card board (0r any blank target) now put a quarter size dot (of contrasting color)on it. start at 5 yrds shoot a group then back up afew yards shoot a group,keep moving back afew yrds, ect working back as far as you can hold good groups. This forces you to consitrait on only one thing the dot. you can switch the drill a little by shooting only one arrow at each yardage. When you switch to a new target say a 3-d put the dot on it for the first few groups and then remove it (using your minds eye) inmage the dot (I also cut out card board deer no dot or any mark forcing me to pick/inmagin the dot on the target.
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I'm going into my third year of shooting nothing but Trad gear. The first year I didn't think I was accurate enough to hunt. In hindsight, my expectations of accuracy were set too high. I was a very good competitor with the training wheels, and a very successful hunter as well.
Now in my third year, I'm gaining confidence all the time. I still have days where my shooting is far from where I'd like it to be. But now I'm able to practice from 30+ yards, and I can see how that improves my shots from 20 yards. Last year I wouldn't of dreamed of practicing from longer range, as I doubt I would've hit the target most of the time.
I try to get a few good "blind bale" shots in every day. I'm also fortunate to have a range a few minutes from work, so I can shoot for 30-45 minutes each day over lunch. I wasn't able to take any lessons (yet), but I read everything I could here and spent a lot of time watching videos.
The hardest thing for me to accept was that I would probably never be able to shoot groups like I could with the training wheels. In time I realized that I didn't need to. I know my range is more limited now, but I'm also more efficient when I get a critter inside my comfort range. My only regret is that I didn't pick up a recurve sooner.
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Not trying to take shortcuts on or and I discouraged about my shooting just wondering what to expect. My arrows are pretty well tuned in that my bare shafts seem to fly straight and hit near my fletched shafts. I set up a range I the backyard (yes I am certain it's legal) that runs out to 30 and I have a 10 yard basement range. I always try o quit when I am tired although that can be hard as I always want to quit with a perfect shot. I have no money for a coach so that's out. My practice sessions are not super long maybe 2-4 dozen shafts once or twice a day. I have been thinking I need some more regimented practice routines and I like what some of you guys have proposed. Thank you.
Jake
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ONE ARROW PRACTICE. There is no explaining how important this concept is. You do not need to worry about grouping arrows just now. Use one arrow only. Think about your form on every shot. Look at where your arrow hit and think about what you just did. Relax! Hang a red Lifesaver on a toothpick from the center of the white paper plate. SHOOT AT THE TOOTHPICK! Do this from ten yards to start with. I realize this all sounds far fetched, but you need to STOP shooting at something the size of a paper plate. You can shoot longer using just one arrow and this will give you time to consider everything you are doing as you are doing it. If you do this an hour a day you will be further along than if you shoot groups for twenty or thirty minutes.
There will come a time that you will find your self wanting to run to the arrow (but don't, of course)and back to the line with it. Shooting will be fun. And you won't feel that you are spinning your wheels.
Pure instinctive shooting is not easy. But, nothing is more rewarding. When you hear us use the term "pick a spot", we mean it...and not the size of a paper plate.
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The next level of practice utilizes two arrows. You shoot the first and no matter where it hits, you try to shoot it. Think about that one for a while and when you figure that dynamic out, you will be well on your way.
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Would be glad to talk with you by phone. All these guys have some great input. It is a journey, but a fun one.
For any sport, good form usually lays a foundation for success. Sure, some few exceptional guys can go about it the hard way and still excell, but for most of us, form is what enables you to get to a higher level.
There are some really important essentials, in my opinion, which by the way is worth what you are paying. Stance, shoulder position, basic tuning, in line draw, and back tension are among them.
Read, watch as many videos as possible of really good shooters. Start with a very, very light bow.
Masters of the Bare Bow volume three would be a very good purchase.
Enjoy!!!
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I think you should be shooting better than that by now.
If there is any way to film yourself from draw arm side, the rear, and over head would be great....maybe we could get you more like hitting an apple, or just barely missing it at 15 in a few weeks.
Also, check out the form clock thread stickied at the top. Proper alignment I feel is the number one KEY to consistency....no mater how you aim or your shooting style.
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I agree with Terry, it really should not take too long to get good groups at 15 yards. That said I can shoot with most anyone out to 20 yards but beyond that I start to spread out but can still keep them on a paper plate at 30 yards and a bit beyond. Work on form and proper alignment which can be done up close, also shoot a few arrows with your eyes closed concentrating on your form and release, say 4 or 5 feet. Shawn
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Jake...sent you an email...did you get it?
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Get Fred Asbell's DVD on "Instinctive Shooting". It will be $20.00 well spent. You can order it on line from "Hunters Image", a TG sponsor. You say nothing about your bow weight or personal limitations. To much bow weight is a serious problem when learning to shoot for accuracy. You must be able to easily draw your bow to anchor. Hand eye coordination is a must, as is the ability to focus on your target. On another note, are you right or left eye dominant? This is also a problem area for some. Good luck. Hope you figure it out. :banghead:
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Terry yes I did thank you.
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My bow draws 50@28 my drawling is 27 when measured from the belly. I can draw and hold at anchor for a good 5 seconds without shaking but typically I only hold for 2-3. I am right handed and r eye dominant. Perhaps my problem is I have mostly been informally practicing "flinging arrows" maybe it's time to step up to a mor regimented practice routine and to begin keeping track of my progress. Also if I let my concentration slip (easy to do in my backyard) my form suffers badly so as noted above a more regimented routine until form becomes second nature would be best.
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Great advice from all... and I can't add much, but here is what has worked for me...
Shooting at small targets REALLY gets you concentrating and your groups will shrink quickly.
Also backing up to your 25-30 yrd line and shooting will shrink your groups at 15-20 yrds.
My son came with the idea of throwing an old baseball out in the yard (15-25yrds) and has me shoot it (at it) with blunts.... extremely hard to do, but great fun! He calls it backyard baseball..
The key point is to have fun with your shooting!
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I've been shooting recurve for about 5 years now.....5 days a week..an hour each session for the last 2 1/2 years and its now that I feel confident that I'll hit the red/yellow zone in a standard archery target with 80% regularity.(You know the ones with the white, black, blue,red and then yellow center..), that's approx 5" in diameter.(the red/yellow part of the target).. at 20 yards. It takes a while. People will tell you they can shoot the baking powder out of a biscuit at 30 yards with great regularity.....some can...most cannot. Keep practicing at 10 and 15 yards and get a coach or someone who knows what they are doing to critique your form...then master it at those distances.
A few 30-50 yard practices for good measure wont hurt you either, but mainly keep your yardages on the short side and master them first....your on you way......good luck son.....KEEP IT FUN !!!!!!!!!!....jackdaw
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I've spent (and wasted) a lot of time trying to "hit", when what I should have concentrated on was getting good, consistent form.
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I am starting my 5th week of shooting a recurve after years of shooting compounds. I just looked at the diagrams of the proper shooting alignment in the Terry's clock thread.
My question is this......it seems that the archer must cant his head down to achieve this alignment. Is this correct?
I am shooting with my chest out and head straight up and am constantly shooting to the left. Could this be my problem?
Doug
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Originally posted by dougedwards:
My question is this......it seems that the archer must cant his head down to achieve this alignment. Is this correct?
Doug
No....you don't have to lean your head down,....canting is just my style...good form can be taken to various cant angles and positions.
Over the Pond.....Click Here. (http://www.tradgang.com/videos/tg/terry-2.wmv)
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(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h285/neonmoon136/drawwrongway_zpsd157c17d.jpg) (http://s67.photobucket.com/user/neonmoon136/media/drawwrongway_zpsd157c17d.jpg.html)
This fellow appears to be shooting with his head in a more upward position. It would seem that if he were to reposition himself with his shoulders parallel to the arrow that his head would have to turn much more counterclockwise and he may be more prone to hitting his forearm at release.
(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h285/neonmoon136/drawrightway_zps145e7515.jpg) (http://s67.photobucket.com/user/neonmoon136/media/drawrightway_zps145e7515.jpg.html)
Same for this guy if he were to stand straight with his head up above his shoulders.
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Wow....I just clicked on that Over the Pond video. I guess that answers my question about head position.....lol
Oh well....maybe I will just start aiming to the right.
Doug
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Doug,
In your posted pictures, that is Terry Green in the second picture. He's the one that did the "form clock" and he has excellent form!
If you feel that you need to aim to the right though, you probably are not getting the arrow under your eye -- often caused by drawing too far back along the side of your face. You shouldn't have to aim to the right to hit! To a certain degree, your head position (straight up or tilted) is not a factor as long as you do it pretty much the same each shot.
Arne
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Doug...a video would be more helpful.....from drawing side and overhead and rear if possible.
You could even have a spine isssue...too stiff sometime if out of alignment will push the arrow left.
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Originally posted by Terry Green:
Doug...a video would be more helpful.....from drawing side and overhead and rear if possible.
You could even have a spine isssue...too stiff sometime if out of alignment will push the arrow left.
I will see if I can get my wife to stand on a chair behind me while I shoot and take some videos as well as behind and beside me.
I don't think that I am over spined with Heritage 75 arrows with 125gr tips shooting out of a 45#@28" bow and only drawing about 27 1/4" although I could be wrong.
I did try pointing my bow holding shoulder toward the target and drawing the arrow directly beneath my eye yesterday and things got better even though it felt weird. I have had bone graft surgery on my neck and have limited side to side range.
Below is a picture of the typical type of group that I was shooting at 20 yards yesterday after concentrating on both shoulder placement and arrow under the eye placement. The orange paint is 3/4" wide and 1 1/2" tall. The red circle area is where I usually hit while aiming at the orange dot. At least it is improvement.
(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h285/neonmoon136/IMG_20130521_074756_876_zps9c004542.jpg) (http://s67.photobucket.com/user/neonmoon136/media/IMG_20130521_074756_876_zps9c004542.jpg.html) I will keep practicing this technique until it feels more comfortable.
Not trying to highjack this thread but would like to shed some light on the frustrations of a new trad shooter.
Doug
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Are those vanes you're shooting or feathers?
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Originally posted by ARCHER2:
Are those vanes you're shooting or feathers?
Four inch feathers on Carbon Express Heritage 75 arrows with 12gr insert and 125gr tips.
Doug