Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Shooters FORM Board => Topic started by: dougedwards on June 10, 2013, 06:57:00 AM
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Just finished reading "Instinctive Shooting" by Fred Asbell. He suggests shooting with the index finger on the string above the arrow so that the pull is applied evenly to the upper and lower limbs.
I began learning to shoot with three fingers under the arrow but am wondering if this is best. I am sure that there are pros and cons to each style but I do not know what they are.
Doug
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Do a search. There is a bunch of information on this subject...no clear "better" way.
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Ok....just did a search using keywords "three under split" and most of the content of the threads were concerning the adjustments that need to be made to a bow that is tillered for split finger shooting for those who want to shoot 3 under.
Two things. First is.....why would someone want to make changes to a bow that is tillered for split finger just so they can shoot with three fingers under the arrow. What advantage is there to that?
Second is.....how would you know how a particular bow is tillered? I have never seen this stated on any of the trad bows that I have seen.
Doug
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Anyone?
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Shoot what works best for you. Fred shoots split so prefers that method others shoot 3 under better.
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I find most bows shoot fine either split or 3-under. I thinks it's more myth than anything else. Don;t over complicate things. Just give it a shot. I have noticewd some bows are quiter one way or the other ... but thats what string silencersa are for anyway.
I shoot 3 under. I like it ... I've shot split too ... I just find it more comfortable to shoot 3under.
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Good shooters using both, but yet to see an Olympic shooter using 3 under.
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I shot split for fourty years, then due to arthritis in right index finger, I had to learn to shoot 3 under. It was a pain for a few months, but I think I shoot better now.
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Split finger for me, because that is the way I was taught many years ago. As stated above, there are many good shooters who use three under and there are many good shooters who shoot split. You have to try both and see which works for you the best.
The key is for a person to use the method that he can be most comfortable and accurate with.
Bisch
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So it is a myth that one method pulls more from one limb than the other?
Doug
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Originally posted by dougedwards:
So it is a myth that one method pulls more from one limb than the other?
Doug
Of course not…….three under loads the bottom limb harder. That is why custom bowyers tiller for either split or 3 under when building a bow.
Not a huge difference, but there is a difference.
To the OP……I shoot 3 under, and there are a LOT of really good shooters using both methods, just gotta find out which one is best for you. :)
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Started smooting split 35 years ago, switched to three under abt 3 years ago. shoot much better now.
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I was told to start shooting 3 under when i started trad archery. Ive found that I shoot better this way and its more comfortable to me.
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I shoot better :archer: split, but teach 3 under to new shooters and my son shoots better with 3 under(I can't, old dog new tricks) :deadhorse: shoot the way that works best for YOU and don't let anyone else change your mind.
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Ok well. I won't worry about it then....lol
It feels to me like I am touching the arrow when I shoot with split because sometimes the arrow will come from the rest.
Based on the responses here I will just continue to shoot with three under.
Thanks for the input.
Doug
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There are lots of reasons for either way to be good, depending upon yourself, how you started, how you shoot, what you shoot.
Imagine, shooting barebow or traditional,having the arrow as close to right under your eye as you can get it is a plus. You can aim right down the shaft. Of course, that limits your distance somewhat.
If you are using sights, having the arrow closer to your eye is not a good thing unless you use only one pin. The farther away from your eye the arrow is, the more distance (pins) you can access.
Most. . (all ?) Olympic archers are using sights and are shooting out to big distances. Think about it. . If they anchor with three under, close to their eye, they would not be able to hold the pin on the target after maybe 30 yards, if that. That doesn't help them.
In days gone by (when I cared about target archery ) the typical target anchor was under the chin, which allowed the string to touch the chin, the tip of the nose and split the aiming eye. All good things for lining up the same every time, as well as for giving a lot of room for pins.
As above, there is a difference in the way bows are tillered, 3 under and mediteranean ( split), but most will not tell the difference.
ChuckC
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I started out split then moved to three under for a while. Now I'm back happily with split, I don't even remember what my bow was tillered for but it didn't make a difference either way.
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The best shooters I know shoot 3 under . Myself I have shot that way since the 60s' (not that Im a good shooter!)I think you get a better release . You dont have to tiller a bow any different than normal Its where the string ends as it lets the arrow go not where it starts !!
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That's funny, the best shooters I know shoot split :biglaugh: , I guess it depends on where your from.
The arrow comes off the shelf because your pinching it, as long as your nocks have the right tension ( pinch ) on the serving area of the string you should only need light pressure on the arrow.
I shoot split and I anchor with my middle finger at the corner of my mouth, this gets the arrow up closer to my eye, and makes it easier for my peripheral vision to pick it up.
If your still having trouble, try angling your wrist slightly bent ( say 45* angle ) towards the string, then as you draw the string will have pressure clockwise ( if your a righty ) and help hold it on the rest.
Good luck !
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Originally posted by Tim Finley:
The best shooters I know shoot 3 under .
HH shot split.....he was pretty good :goldtooth: :goldtooth: :goldtooth:
This is another subject where you will find folks defending thier choice...which may or may NOT be the best choice for you.
Find what works for you and don't worry about all the static....and don't let folks put monsters in your head.
I gave 3 under a whirl...but the arrow got in the way of seeing my targets at around 35 yards.....did NOT like not being able to see my targets out to 60+ yards.....went back to split right quick like.
But hey....that's what I do....again, find what works best for you and run with it.
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I too agree that the best 3-D shooters I know all shoot 3-under and they are impressive to say the least but I believe it has a lot to do with the gap shooting style most of them prefer.
I switched to 3-under last year and my accuracy and consistency definitely increased, not really as much at ranges under 25yds but drastically improved at longer range since I typically shoot instinctive up to about 25yds and shoot a gap system at 30-40yds. With my high cheekbone anchor and 3-under hold my POI is right at 30yds which is perfect for me and at 40 I just hold on the back. Works for me!
Typically with most bows nothing more then a slight nock height change is needed, if you have an adjustable limb system you can play with tiller adjustmnets and get the bow shooting very sweet for you no matter what drawing method you prefer.
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Doug, the way I understand it is that the bow's tiller (distance between the riser fade-outs and string) dictates where the pressure from your drawing hand (three under or split) equals out the level of force on the limbs. Another factor that changes this is your bow hand placement, which is something Mr. Asbell addresses in his books, also. As for determining whether a bow is tillered for 3 under or split, I don't remember the exact numbers right now, but I know Byron Ferguson touches on the subject in his book "Become the Arrow" and his video "Barebow 101." Hope this helps to answer your questions, and if I'm mistaken about any of this (hopefully) someone will chime in and correct me.
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I grew up shooting split finger so it's all I ever knew. I tried shooting 3 under but because I use my middle finger in the corner of my mouth as my first anchor the fletching was practically in my eye. I think if I ever need to change I could but split finger is working for me.
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I shot split fingers for about 23 years, and switched to 3 under about 10 months ago. I never have shot this well before! It's great, a bad day now was my best day last year. I met someone at a shoot who has helped me tremendously, and can't think him enough! It has also made me a better hunter!
I think everyone should give it a try, learn your point on and your gaps, and it will make you a better shot. If it doesn't work out for you split fingers is a great method as well.
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Originally posted by Terry Green:
Originally posted by Tim Finley:
The best shooters I know shoot 3 under .
HH shot split.....he was pretty good :goldtooth: :goldtooth: :goldtooth:
This is another subject where you will find folks defending thier choice...which may or may NOT be the best choice for you.
Find what works for you and don't worry about all the static....and don't let folks put monsters in your head.
I gave 3 under a whirl...but the arrow got in the way of seeing my targets at around 35 yards.....did NOT like not being able to see my targets out to 60+ yards.....went back to split right quick like.
But hey....that's what I do....again, find what works best for you and run with it. [/b]
I was just watching some video's and Fred Bear shot split finger also.
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I just went back to Split after ripping my face apart using 3 Under. I adjusted my anchor and don't see any difference except I'm not in pain anymore.
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My anchor is the same for both ways. I choose to shoot 3 under because I don't shoot far. My bow also has an even tiller.
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Some folks swear by and some at each method. Generally three under works as well as split, or to some better, out to about 30 -35 yards or so, depending on the shooter and the bow, and then starts to make seeing what you're shooting at more difficult at longer ranges.
The "tiller" issue can almost always be rendered meaningless by moving your nock point up an 1/8" to a 1/4"
Some say three under is noisier, some say it's not. I've found it really depends on the bow. Some of them are louder some are not.
In the final analysis, however, it's a matter of taste and comfort and all tastes are tastes. Shoot whichever way works best for you. Ricky Welch and Rod Jenkins shoot three under so it's clear that it can be done at championship level.
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I like to add another twist to these discussions...I long ago decided that for me two fingers under is way more effective so I shoot that way when I am hunting...I also find that for the longer ranges for shooting 3D targets split finger works a little better so I shoot that way a lot too...I have never paid a whole lot of attention to how a bow is tillered and have only known that for a couple of bows I have owned...lot of traditional shooters sweat the small stuff...if I wanted to do that I would go back to shooting my compounds all the time
DDave