Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Shooters FORM Board => Topic started by: Arctic Hunter on October 04, 2016, 03:40:00 PM
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Okay tradgang,
I've got target panic bad lately and I'm standing here staring at mechanical Broadheads wondering if I should just go back to wheels and a release.
I've owned most of the books and videos. Joel Turner's video helped a lot for a long time.....Until lately. It's not a premature release, but more of an anticipation of the shot (feather touching my chin is my psycho trigger). When the feather touches, or when I know it's about to, it's like someone drive stuns me with a tazer. This is extremely inconvenient since the season has started.
I thought about a grip sear...but I dot want to screw anything into the riser of my widow.
Any suggestions?
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Blind bale, only shoot 1 arrow at time. Those two things help me rushing and anticipating the shot more than anything. If Joel Turners stuff helped you before, maybe give it another look?
Keep slinging them and remember, most of your shots will probably under 15 yards anyway if youre like me at least.
Good luck!
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Lots of good advice and discussion on the "shooter's forum". Probably best to post your request over there.
Good luck. Don't give up!
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Your not alone.........it can get better but it never goes away. Like said above, one arrow at a time and focus. Talk yourself thru every aspect of the shot......you can do it!!!
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You must get your mind focused on processes AFTER aiming. This means once you've come to anchor and aim, forget aiming and let your mind do it without your thinking. You focus on moving your drawing arm scapula a fraction which will trigger relaxation of the drawing hand/fingers and the string drops.
You'll know if you have it if your drawing hand reflexively "paints your face" This means the drawing hand slides along your face, under your ear. The thumb of the drawing hand will end up on or near the shoulder at the conclusion of follow through.
By the way, if you are keeping your bow arm muscles active (pushing) the bow arm will move towards the target and then fall down and to the side. It will NOT stay motionless until the arrow hits the target. Trying to keep the bow arm up until the arrow hits the target is a myth and promotes collapsing of the bow arm shoulder.
More than 2.4 million students were taught this process last school year using a simple loop of non-elastic string. I recommend you make this "String Bow" and practice the process. Then "pretend" your bow is the loop of string.
Bottom line, you need to override the process that led you to target panic by learning a better one. I had TP increasingly worse from about 1983 to 1995. I switched to LH shooting which fixed it immediately. Of course I had to learn why TP happens to prevent it from reoccurring on the left side.
Now I can shoot RH or LH because I'm focused on process not results. Results are a nice by-product of process thinking.
By the way, none of the tricks suggested during that 8-9 year period of TP worked for me; blind bales, closed eyes, drawing for days without hours, drawing for days with arrow nocked by no shooting, etc. I'd always think I was "cured" and then start shooting. It only took 2-3 arrows (if that) and TP was back.
PROCESS INSTEAD OF RESULTS IS THE KEY.
You can buy ($13.50) a DVD by Tim Strickland at the NASP® store:
http://naspschools.org/product/?id=8
On this DVD famous Olympic Medalist Denise Parker and Tim (Olympic coach) describe the "Eleven Steps to Archery Success".
Good luck!
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Shooting too much, too long of sessions will kill you. Few arrows at a time, or even better, Use 1 arrow, for a limited amount of time.
Make yourself count to 2 before you release EVERY shot. Its mind over matter now.
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I would consider this a mind over matter scenario if the matter wasn't the mind in the first place. Arctic Hunter- RELAX. You're not relearning how to operate your bow and you KNOW how to shoot already. Relax and shoot. Anxiety to target panic is like gasoline to a fire.
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I won't hark on this. While the "threat" of TP is always lurking, it CAN be made to go away and be banished from your shot. You have to know that success is achievable to keep working.
Sadly, I think most people who get TP never tame it, let alone get rid of it.
I only offer this to encourage. Not to be contrary.
I've seen people who LOVE archery and who give a lot back to it, get TP. Many of us love archery here. Imagine loving it (archery) so much and then having it taken away by the wrong frame of mind.
Some people are more prone to get it than others. I think folks who are more laid back and go with the flow (both great traits, I'm sure) are less likely to get it.
This thread is probably not long for this forum. However, in my opinion, target panic is a far greater threat to the majority of traditional (all actually) archers than any anti-hunter group has ever been.
I've had adults (usually male) in teacher trainings who don't want to shoot any more arrows than the training requires....UNTIL they get get their mind off the target and on a new shooting process (sequence to some).
Target panic begins when the archer shoots an arrow that misses the "spot" for no apparent reason, and here's the important part...and then feels bad about it.
When this happens your subconscious begins hatching excuses for you to miss such as not getting to full-draw, not able to properly aim, not being able to stay at anchor, etc. Those who use sights generally can't bring the pin to the intended spot, stopping above or below.
I know, some will think we're making it (shooting the bow) too complicated...they say look, shoot, repeat. Don't overthink. Essentially, these folks are correct. Those who get TP were/are thinking too much, wrongly. But some of us can't help it. Some are Type A personalities and this is the way they (we) tick.
Sorry, this is a serious problem for thousands and will run them out of the sport...it already has for many. Some terrific instructors have or have had TP, and I feel for them.
I'll cut it out now.
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Step 1. Relax. Deep breath. Smile!
Step 2. Read McDave's thread in the shooters form forum, it may hit home.
Step 3. Relax! It's an anxiety game. You'll beat it best by learning to address the stress itself.
(that's all just my 2 cents)
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If you have been using Joel's style of training, go back to the basics of the verbal steps. If you are completing each step of the shot cycle with the verbal cueing, the fletching touching your nose SHOULD NOT trigger the shot.
Slow the shot sequence down and name each step.
Mine for example is "Draw, settle, anchor, focus,expand...".
The anchor command occurs when my two point touch anchor is obtained. My brain does not allow expansion (to release) until focus is steady. Say it out loud as you go.
Start with draw. Then move to next step. Only move on in sequence when you have mastered control over previous steps. It may take several sessions before you get to "expand". If this is the case it may be several sessions before you release an arrow. That's ok. Control of the shot means control over all aspects of the shot.
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Have you tried a gap method of shooting? Not my cup of tea but it might help. I'd go with Bowwilds advice though
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Are you saying your mantra? Focus on the movement and not the trigger.
On another note you can use a zip tie wrapped around the handle just cut the end leaving enough to press against as a grip sear.
I would really think about the why it no longer works.
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I'm not sure what's going on but lately this powwow has become some type of a Dumping Ground for shooting forum threads which belong on the shooters forum.... no foul no harm let's just post all these on the shooting forum please that's what it's there for
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Thanks everyone for the help so far.
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In my opinion you have that rush because your mantra is just arrow hand related. You think to pull, pull, pull until you reach the 3rd anchor point and you let it go. At one point it was meant to hit you back. Change it to pull, pull, pull until the bow hand is still/steady on the target* for example. Ignore the feathers on nose/chin for a moment, they are not the cause of your improved consistency. They are the byproduct of good form - with a specific type of arrows. A good release and a still/steady bow hand when you release are the real reasons for consistency. If your bow hand dances in front of you every time you shot an arrow, your consistency will suck no matter how many anchor points you have.
PS * You don't have to look to the bow hand to see if is still / steady. Your peripheral vision is your best friend since it is the one that detects movement when you are focused on something else (like a point on your target). It doesn't detect speed, but this is another cup of tea. It's well known for centuries and is the base for many concepts in martial arts. And you can't achieve bow hand steadiness unless you are at full draw, bones on bones - perfect structure.
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Originally posted by Daz:
The anchor command occurs when my two point touch anchor is obtained. My brain does not allow expansion (to release) until focus is steady. Say it out loud as you go.
You know what the negative words in the process of your mantra can do to yourself? The stress chemicals will be released in your brain. These chemicals interrupt the normal functioning of the brain, impairing logic, reason and communication. It may sound extraterrestrial or rubbish, but it is a simple fact known by psychologists. If you really need a mantra to calm yourself, do not use negative words / sugestions. You can't calm yourself by repeating words that are stressing you. If you want to calm yourself and do a check form in same time go for: "I am pulling with my back muscles, I touch my anchor points, my bow hand is steady and ... " kind of mantra. You can add whatever ingredients you want in it, but keep them out of negative connotation.
Btw, focus is there or is not there, it can't be steady. And you can't focus while talking to yourself.
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A few weeks of using a clicker really helped me slow down my shot sequence and pay attention to each step
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Originally posted by Shadowhnter:
Make yourself count to 2 before you release EVERY shot. Its mind over matter now.
Counting to 2 and nothing else is the reason for a lot of people to get in their system the seeds of target panic. Yeah, I count to 2 with these results:
- I lose my focus since counting interfere with the notion of focus
- I forget to pull
- I scared the animal with my loud counting ...
and
"I just missed without reasons since my form was good, I've even counted to two. What the heck just happened?"
I am wondering about the source of 'count to 2' ... If you checked Rick Welch's youtube students and he was saying from background 'one, two'...'steady, steady' he was implying to do something before releasing, something that needs max 2 seconds: focus as in clear your mind of any interferences between you and target and keep the bow hand steady. These two can be done in same moment without altering the rest or interfering one with other. And the counting to 2 stops once the archer learnt. For some becomes less, for some more, but they never count in their head - that's for learning process. They just adjust the time necessary to do those 2 things to their own rhythm.
PS That '2 seconds count' has support in Rick Welch's vision. For him, you are overbowed if you can't hold the bow 3 seconds at full draw. You could see in those videos some fist slightly rotating due to the bow poundage but wrist elevation was rock steady. Since the guy was shooting from the shelf the slight rotation has minor impact, and because is repeatable it is not an issue for accuracy. Applying something without understanding the whole is the recipe for disaster at long term. Or for lack of improvement in best case scenario.
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As a student of Rick's, I can confirm that he recommends clearing one's head of all conscious thoughts during the hold, including counting either out loud or silently. He believes in a two second hold because he thinks that much time is necessary to stabilize one's body after reaching full draw. If he wanted people to count to two, he would tell them to do it instead of counting for them. He counts for them so they can keep their minds free of cognitive thoughts. He wants them to eventually learn how long a two second hold is without having to count or time it.
He says, "Look at the target and think about your form" during the hold. When asked what he means by "look at the target," he explains that he doesn't want people focusing on the tip of the arrow. He wants the eyes focused on the target, but not concentrating on the spot to the exclusion of the total sight picture (out of focus in the peripheral vision), since he believes that learning to establish the correct sight picture in relationship to the target is the key to accuracy under his instinctive method of aiming.
When asked what he means by "think" he explains that he doesn't mean think in words, but instead to be aware on a physical level of all of the elements of one's shot setup. I would call this "awareness" myself, but I guess awareness and cognitive thought could be different subsets of thinking in general.
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Originally posted by Draven:
Originally posted by Daz:
The anchor command occurs when my two point touch anchor is obtained. My brain does not allow expansion (to release) until focus is steady. Say it out loud as you go.
You know what the negative words in the process of your mantra can do to yourself? The stress chemicals will be released in your brain. These chemicals interrupt the normal functioning of the brain, impairing logic, reason and communication. It may sound extraterrestrial or rubbish, but it is a simple fact known by psychologists. If you really need a mantra to calm yourself, do not use negative words / sugestions. You can't calm yourself by repeating words that are stressing you. If you want to calm yourself and do a check form in same time go for: "I am pulling with my back muscles, I touch my anchor points, my bow hand is steady and ... " kind of mantra. You can add whatever ingredients you want in it, but keep them out of negative connotation.
Btw, focus is there or is not there, it can't be steady. And you can't focus while talking to yourself. [/b]
What negative words?
My mantra only has five words.
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You said:
"My brain DOES NOT ALLOWED expansion until focus is steady
Say it out loud as you go."
Is that your mantra? If not, please say the correct version because it makes no sense to write something when you thought something else.
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Originally posted by Daz:
If you have been using Joel's style of training, go back to the basics of the verbal steps. If you are completing each step of the shot cycle with the verbal cueing, the fletching touching your nose SHOULD NOT trigger the shot.
Slow the shot sequence down and name each step.
Mine for example is "Draw, settle, anchor, focus,expand...".
The anchor command occurs when my two point touch anchor is obtained. My brain does not allow expansion (to release) until focus is steady. Say it out loud as you go.
Start with draw. Then move to next step. Only move on in sequence when you have mastered control over previous steps. It may take several sessions before you get to "expand". If this is the case it may be several sessions before you release an arrow. That's ok. Control of the shot means control over all aspects of the shot.
Read my second paragraph of my original post above.
It is clear what my mantra is. Five words.
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OK, my mistake Daz.
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It's all good.
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Here's what helped me. (1)stare at the tip of the arrow until I come ALL the way to FULL DRAW. (2)Anchor (3)shift my focus from the arrow tip to the exact spot I want to hit and then make everything else disappear. (4)visually burn a hole into the spot I want to hit and release and follow through. ***When I do my part in this exact routine***, the shot usually takes care of itself AND that's when the "instinctive" part takes control.
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i agree with every reply on here I to have went through target panic .A good friend of mine gave me very good advice one week before ny opened my bh were flying bad he said do what I was doing 2 weeks prior I did and they flew like a ft. only other advice I have is shoot every day it helped me a lot. even now season has started I still shoot every day at least 10. good luck you will work it out.
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Thanks for the help everyone. I got a lot of great tips and even had a short conversation with Dan Toelke who gave me something to try that was new to me. I'm working my way through it, and am feeling pretty confident again. I've gone through a lot of masking tape writing notes to my self in order to keep my shot process in check.
I honestly believe it'd be easier to cure cancer.
Thanks again.
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For myself I have battled it for years and by making some changes I can say I am better at keeping it at bay. The first thing is to come to the realization that it will always be there waiting to creep up on you. A few things helped me. 1. Shoot less often, if you are shooting crappy, nothing will prolong it than shooting often and ingraining the behavior deeper. Shoot less often but make every shot a million dollar shot. Put everything into it, focus hard and don't shoot unless everything feels right.
2. Pay attention to your form, are you really anchoring in the best position or is your alignment way off, indirectly killing your form. My issue was my draw elbow was not in line with the arrow, simply by shifting my anchor gave me a firm back feel that gave me greater confidence in my shot.
3. Work on your focus and how to really block everything else out expect what you want to focus on. Some people focus on the target, some on the gap, some on the arrow, some on both, you decide, but focus.
4. Many people including me are aiming the second they place an arrow on the string and bring attention to the target, as they go through their sequence the anxiety builds and a rush to shoot signal goes off. I dealt with this quite often but worked through it by using drills without shooting.
In the end the journey is yours, don't be afraid to commit to the challenge.