Post by: Torben Jensen on June 29, 2006, 04:40:00 PM
I'm shooting Beman Max4 Camo with 100 grain brass inserts and grizzly broadheads with steel inserts. That brings the weight to 790 grains (spine 300 and FOC 23% !!).
The bow is giving between 64 and 65 # at my draw 28,75" and here comes the interesting part : I get a consistent 176-178 fps handshooting it with silencers and all. I'm holding at anchor for app. 2 seconds so its not a "snapshot".
This is way more than Ashby recommends as plenty for water buff - and only at 65 # !
Most other good performing bows will need at least 12-15# more to give the same performance.
Torben from Denmark
Post by: Falk on June 29, 2006, 05:42:00 PM
Cheers, Falk
Post by: longbow357 on June 29, 2006, 06:55:00 PM
Post by: Mark U on June 29, 2006, 07:23:00 PM
Post by: DAS Kinetic on June 29, 2006, 09:05:00 PM
Yea, Doug's limbs are Samicks too. I started using them for these applications because I can get them in heavier weights
Falk, FITA limbs gain effective weight when put on shorter risers. Generally abot 2 pounds per inch.
Post by: Torben Jensen on June 30, 2006, 05:51:00 AM
1. The riser length is shorter (my limbs would make either a 66 or 68" on a Fita riser).
2. The angle the limbs come off the riser is different - and can be changed quite a bit by the shooter simply by turning a bolt in or out.
If you go to Davids homepage (DAS Kinetic Bows) you can see pictures.
Post by: Arrow4Christ on June 30, 2006, 10:44:00 PM
Post by: Arrow4Christ on June 30, 2006, 10:44:00 PM
Post by: kawika b on June 30, 2006, 11:43:00 PM
Post by: DAS Kinetic on July 01, 2006, 12:10:00 AM
Kawika, for very short draws you really need more limb preload, or just heavier limbs to start with. 55# is not a problem though.
I was just looking at Pat Lefemine's posted test results with his 2006 Bowtech compound. He didn't say what his draw length is, but at 80# and 980gr arrow he is getting only 186fps. That's one of the fastest compounds on the market. I wonder what it would do at 65# with a finger release?? There is a lot of misconception about the gap between modern stick bows and compounds!
Post by: kawika b on July 01, 2006, 01:06:00 AM
Post by: Arrow4Christ on July 01, 2006, 01:59:00 PM
Post by: O.L. Adcock on July 01, 2006, 05:12:00 PM
GWB, yes sir, those are the minimum numbers that will consistantly get to the far ribs. That's not to say pass throughs everytime but once a BH gets to the far ribs it's done all the killing it's going to do. At my 30" draw I can meet those numbers with 47#! As long as those numbers are met or exceeded, the buff isn't going to care if it was a 60# bow or a 90#. More then those numbers is always better.....O.L.
Post by: Arrow4Christ on July 01, 2006, 05:35:00 PM
Post by: Falk on July 01, 2006, 05:53:00 PM
Quote
posted by Torben Jensen:Thanks Torben - I certainly did know those facts but wasn't able to think of such BIG effect :eek: All I "know" about FITA will end at about 45# for men, hence a HUGE differents - at least in my mind :cool:
The reason the poundage is higher on these risers is because of two things :
1. The riser length is shorter (my limbs would make either a 66 or 68" on a Fita riser).
2. The angle the limbs come off the riser is different - and can be changed quite a bit by the shooter simply by turning a bolt in or out.
I stick to my Cust. Kodiak T/D - but would love to get hold of an old A-riser for the same purpose. Though the differents is only about 3# when compared to the B-riser I own. But it would allow me to use my longer #3 limbs for actual hunting. They perform definately better then the shorter #2 of the same weight (70#). But those DAS bows are - of course - one generation ahead compared to my setup ... and it's hard to believe the given datas if you for yourself struggle with this far less efficient bows - because you want to :D
Cheers, Falk
Post by: DAS Kinetic on July 01, 2006, 07:40:00 PM
You can commonly get FITA limbs 50lbs, or heavier on special order. Sid Ball at Border makes heavy limbs that perform very well. You have to make sure your riser is up to adding heavy limbs though. You might end up with a real vibra-master
!["[dead]"]("graemlins/dead.gif" "\"\"")
:)
Post by: GroundHunter on July 03, 2006, 05:49:00 PM
What are guys using? Not for "mimimum", but "comfortable margin" - say 800 gr. and 170 fps? or more?
Post by: GroundHunter on July 07, 2006, 06:25:00 PM
Post by: DAS Kinetic on July 07, 2006, 10:37:00 PM
The bows come complete, ready yo hunt. Samick is custom building the limbs for me.
Post by: Bowhunter4life on July 08, 2006, 01:35:00 PM
Post by: duncan idaho on August 25, 2006, 12:16:00 PM
Post by: Kelly on August 28, 2006, 02:00:00 PM
Post by: Rik on August 29, 2006, 02:46:00 PM
Post by: cch on September 20, 2006, 08:33:00 AM
Post by: Bill Carlsen on September 20, 2006, 09:49:00 AM
Post by: DAS Kinetic on September 20, 2006, 09:52:00 AM
Because the guy that did it doesn't post on the websites. He is a writer for Bowhunter and other magazines though, so the story may show up in print. That may also be why no one has said much. He took a 66# DAS and shot 2 buffs. One with an 850gr arrow and the other with a 935 gr arrow, both with STOS heads. Both arrows broke a rib going in and stopped with the broadhead protruding out the far side 6 to 8 inches. He also shot a large hog and a scrub bull that were clean passthroughs. His arrows were clocking about 186fps average. Those are the facts as I know them. Rik was there and saw what happened so he would be a better source, but if Doug is writing an article, I'm not sure how much they want to say. I think the performance of that "light weight" tackle opened a few eyes. I've got pictures on my website in the gallery, under "safari room".
Post by: Mud Lake Man on September 20, 2006, 06:38:00 PM
I shot my first bull at 11 yards. About 5 degrees quartering away. Near front leg forward. Head down, feeding. 70 pound DAS Recurve bow at my 31 inch draw. 850 grain arrow. Arrow is a Cabelas SST 240 with 9.5 inches of all thread bolt glued in the front. This is the exact same arrow as the old Easton PC. Finished arrow 31 inches to back of broadhead. Steel 125 grain broadhead adapter. 160 grain STOS broadhead, single bevel for left fletched arrows with tanto tip. Tire gel applied to entire length of shaft night before hunt (makes it very slick) Vaseline applied to broadhead and end 12 inches of shaft. Arrow speed 170 fps for momentum of 0.65. FOC 25.
Arrow went thru rib on entry, vertically, about half way from the center of the rib and the back of the rib. Large fracture of rib at this location. Never even looked to see if the arrow hit a rib on exit.
Approximately 12 inches of shaft protruding out the off side.
Shot location was about 5 inches straight above the elbow joint and it came out on the opposite side about 2 inches forward of this location. I was purposefully shooting for the V, and this exact location. After observing several necropsies, I concluded this to be the ideal shot for this situation. The ribs appeared to be smaller here than back at the crease or farther back.
Bull ran/trotted/stumbled in a semi-circle for a measured distance of 60 yards, and fell 45 yards from my location. Fletch end of shaft was found 30 yards from shot location. Broadhead end of shaft was found 50 yards from shot location.
Second bull was shot at 9 yards. Perfectly broadside. Almost exact same shot location and nearly exact hit thru entry rib. 935 grain arrow at 164 FPS for momentum of 0.68. Same shaft, broadhead, all thread in front (just a little longer) FOC about 24.5. Bull stumbled 25 yards straight away, turned and came straight back and fell at 18 yards from shot location. About 10 inches of fletch end fell out at 25 yards, 10 inches of broadhead end fell out at 22 yards and middle 10 inches remained lodged in the center of the heart.
Both buffalo were old, mature bulls.
I have email photos available of the bow, broadhead, all thread insert, dead buff, etc, if anyone is interested.
I studied the Dr. Ed information religiously for scores of hours. I then spent months experimenting and testing and shooting. A huge thanks goes to Dr. Ed and everyone who provided information or advice that helped make this adventure so successful.
I also shot a large scrub bull, with 920 grain arrow and boar with 850 grain arrow.
I own a whole basement full of Groves Recurve bows, and consider them to be some of the finest hunting weapons ever made. However, the DAS bow I got just before we departed for Oz is beyond description. I was able to drop 9 pounds of draw weight and gain arrow speed, if you can imagine such a thing. The heavy arrows with high FOC are almost unstoppable. David, at DAS, gets a huge credit for making such an outstanding bow and Kelly Peterson for making a couple special strings, which included my “no gloves.”
I don't spend much time at these web sites, so don't know much about them and have no idea how to attach photos.
Doug Chase
Post by: cch on September 20, 2006, 11:24:00 PM
Post by: Al Kidner on September 21, 2006, 04:02:00 AM
:)
In Oz, alan
Post by: Torben Jensen on September 24, 2006, 04:09:00 PM
Torben
Post by: Rik on September 26, 2006, 11:21:00 PM
You asked about barefoot action? Well, I think Doug had his boots on, but on my second buffalo, Billy and I dropped packs and boots and went after a herd bull, thinking we would quicky get busted by him or his many cows, so it would be a short stalk. But on a bull that size, a guys gotta try anyway, right?
Two hours and 1.7 tenderfooted miles later, never being more than 70 yards behind the bull and several times being well under 20 yards, I laced him through the heart at 18 yards. He was rutting so hard he never even knew he had been hit. He died about 12 steps from there. Well, that's when I realized I had to walk back another tenderfooted 1.7 miles to get my boots, and even more importantly---drinking water. Man it gets hot in Australia!
For comparison sake regarding the DAS, I was shooting a 75-pound Howard Hill Wesley special, and Ipe arrows tipped with 160-grain Grizzly broadheads (860 grains total). On my first bull, which was laying down when I shot, the arrow went through the sternum, up through the heart, and lodged up in the spine with the fletching sticking straight down between his two front legs. I hit the second bull right in the crease, slightly quartering away. The broadhead cut a big rib horizontally, centered the heart, and stuck deep in a far rib. Doug's bow, being much lighter in weight, drove the broadheads clear out the other side of his bulls. Think what they will do on elk!
One more thing, everyone seems to be most interested in the penetration performance of the DAS, but they are forgetting its most important feature, and that is AMAZINGLY CONSISTENT ACCURACY. After two arrows, I can shoot the things better than any bow I have ever owned. If you want to consistently shoot knocks off and have ultra-tight arrow groups, get a DAS. You'll see what I mean.
P.S. I think we may have to get Doug back on here, as it seems he skewered a 6x6 bull with his DAS bow Sunday morning. He might have an interesting story to tell there too.
Post by: Al Kidner on September 27, 2006, 12:18:00 AM
In Oz, alan
Post by: Basalt on October 11, 2006, 07:00:00 PM
We are also still on dail-up here in our little village so this whole process is about as slow as as an Idaho mountainman without shoes.LOL.
That's Rik with the fallen Buff after that long barefoot stalk and a Classic 18yard heart shot.
The guy with the handsome PINK pack is our old mate Mr.Doug Chase and as you can see he's hanging onto that recurve fairly tightly, even though we all offered to carry it for him.
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m123/Basalt1/Barra%20fishing/Buffalo/MelvillleAugust2006001.jpg)
(http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m123/Basalt1/Barra%20fishing/Buffalo/MelvillleAugust2006010.jpg)
Unbelievable after only one hour I've got it there!
Post by: Al Kidner on October 12, 2006, 03:35:00 AM
Post by: Benny Nganabbarru on November 16, 2006, 01:31:00 AM
Post by: Longbowwally on December 02, 2006, 12:48:00 PM
The little skinny carbon SST's loaded heavy up front are the ultimate in penetration and I'm sure if Rik used them with his longbow he would be amazed at how much better they penetrate over his wood arrows.
To think the bow is such a big factor, especially since it was a lot lighter in draw weight, just doesn't compute to me. Of course that 31" draw probably factors in to increase performance also. JMHO
Post by: Torben Jensen on December 03, 2006, 07:24:00 AM
I guess it would be logical to expect a spine of
240 but I don't think there is made arrows that stiff at all ? The stiffest I have yet seen is 300.
Torben
Post by: bayoulongbowman on December 08, 2006, 09:49:00 PM
Post by: duncan idaho on December 11, 2006, 11:44:00 AM
Post by: LostNation_Larry on December 12, 2006, 08:11:00 AM
Post by: bayoulongbowman on December 12, 2006, 08:28:00 AM
Post by: Ron Chambers on December 24, 2006, 06:34:00 PM
Post by: Ron Chambers on December 25, 2006, 03:01:00 PM