Trad Gang
Main Boards => Dangerous Game => Topic started by: Gentry on September 12, 2006, 04:15:00 PM
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I am planing on taking a tip to alaska to hunt brown bears and would like to know your opions on what poundage you would shoot I know that acurecy is the most important factor. I shoot a 64# longbow now and think that I could go up some. so what would you shoot, recomed?
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Shoot the heaviest bow you can handle accurately. That varies among individuals. Many can handle 70# and others only 40-50#. I believe the late Charlie Kroll used 50# and Fred Bear used 70#.
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I don't have first hand experience with Brownies, but I spent several hours with a guide in BC that has shot a few of them that claimed that you didn't need anymore bow for Grizzly than for Blackies. If your longbow is a modern R/D design and average to good performance, I would think that would be a perfect choice. You might bump up arrow weight to 750grians or so and have a bow that would stop a freight train. I don't care how heavy a bow you have, you are not going to stop a charging Brownie with an arrow. You simply need enough bow to puncture both lungs and let the air out of one. I think that bow would be more than adequate.
Disclaimer:
have never hunted brownies, but I did shoot a black bear this year with a 51#@29" recurve and 630 grain arrows.
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Just make sure you can out run your guide.LOL. Ya gotta be nuts to hunt something that can eat you, with a bow,IMHO.
Danny
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people shoot them every year with a rifle, when they were way close enough to do so with a bow. Be it that they shoot it while standing in a pool of there own urine. But with that said, if I had the money to do it, I would do it. I do not know if I would consider shooting one with out a guide that was not armed with an adequate firearm that could put a stop or slow the animal down just enough that you could put a foot in front of your guide, hey it is survival of the fittest, if you are missing a leg, you are not the fittest!(just kind of joking)
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thx guys I got charged by a black bear this last spring that we had cornerd beteewn to litel creeks gess he just did not want to get wet. lol it was kinda cool after he charged the frist time and we realized that he was bluffing ran at us with his eyes closed and head truned stop at about ten feet opened his eyes realized we dint move an inch ran back down to the creek then turnd and did it two more times we finley let him run out after that he was only about 180# but a nice blond,cinamon and cocolet.only one that I have erver seen, to bad he was not 100 # haevyer but maybe we'll see him agine in afew years.
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Beware, in a few more years he probably will not be bluffing :scared: :scared:
Charlie - SA
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Didn't Papa Bear use a 65 pounder on all his Alaskan game?
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I used to fly bush planes in Kodiak. Have a backup! Met a guide that got mauled about 10 years before I met him. Half his face was gone.
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I haven't shot one but have carried 66# selfbow and #66 laminated longbows on my trips. I have zero concern about that (or 64#) being enough bow. A friend killed one with mid fifties. A heavier arrow would be where you should be more concerned with. Just go for at least 650 grains plus. Remember, most brownies are way smaller than many elk and most moose and they are routinely killed with under 64#.
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thx steve I shoot a 650 grain arrow know so I think that I well keep my same set up thx
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My tag is in my pocket... 55# Robertson Stykbow.
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tag in my pocket 57lb
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Alaskan hunters, I envy you!
Good luck all,
F-Manny
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Just curious: when did Brown/Grizzly bear bowhunting started? ( besides the rifle-toting Yeehah crowd, of course) Was it the Fred Bear video? and, isn't the animal sacred to Indians, and thus, shouldn't it be sacred to at least the traditional archery part of the hunting community, who is trying so hard to identify itself with Indian Heritage, and not be hunted at all? Or, if one must have a brown bear, shouldn't it be on a one on one knife fight/kill(maybe), like Indians used to do?
your thoughts.....
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Alex,
Have you taken your medicine today?
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Alaska Dept of Fish and Game sets minimum weight at 50#, I killed an interior grizzly with my 300 Win mag, after that I experience I would definitely set my minimum higher than 50#, they are a tough critter to put down. Heavier arrows would also be in the equation.
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Alex you have been in the peyote. BTW Im not trying to align myself with native american heritage, I shoot an english longbow. LOL Justin
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i'd like to see the native american that takes on a full-grown alaskan brown with a knife and wins....!! not I, said the cat...
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I don't try to identify with Indian heritage, but I sure enjoy hunting with traditional gear.
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Please, those who shouldn't hunt bears should refrain, and leave bear-hunting to those who should.
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Art Young took a brown bear in Alaska in the 1920's. So hunting them with archery tackle goes back a ways.
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Fred Eichler shot his with a 54# bow I believe. Shawn
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I'm not sure if Fred Eichler has gotten a Brown bear or not yet? He and I hunted with the same outfitter for Brown bears in Alaska last year and he didn't take one then. He did take a grizzly and a Polar bear last year though.
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Jack,
Palmer is making the Eichler bow now honoring the fact that he has taken all 28 big game species with his recurve. That is the only bow he is making and it sells for the small price of $1200.00. With that being said I would imagine that he did get one along the line somewhere. Shawn the Grizzly he shot in Trad Harvest IV was a 57# he stepped up 3 pounds in weight according to what I remember him stating during the video.
Dave
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Thanks Dave.
I only know that he told me he didn't get a bear on his spring hunt and I didn't get one on my fall hunt either, for that matter. It has been awhile since I last spoke with him though. It is possible he may have taken one prior to last year or he may have gotten one this year for all I know.
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Jack,
For the time being I have to dream of hunting dangerous bears with my Silvertip. Maybe someday in the future.
Dave
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Dave,
It doesn't hurt to dream. Up until last year going on a brown bear hunt was only a dream for me too. Although my trip didn't turn out quite the way my dream did, it was an adventure I will never forget. I hope to return again someday for another try.
Gary,
Although I never actually took a shot I carried a 58# Black Widow recurve on my brown bear hunt. It has already been mentioned here but the outfitter told me that the bears are thin skinned and what will work on black bears will work on brown bears. Like most animals, shot placement has more to do with it than poundage. That said, he was guiding another hunter while I was there that shot one with a compound. It seems to me that his compound was in the sixty some pound range. He hit the bear too far back. The arrow went completly through the bear and kept going out the other side after the shot. The bear made it a short ways to the river that they were hunting by and died while trying to swim across. They recovered it on a sand-bar quite a ways downstream from where it entered the river.
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I just returned from Baranof Island in Southeast Alaska where I hunted Brown Bear for 17 days straight. I had opportunites at average brown bears early (7.5ft), but had seen a 9.5ft bear and hunted him hard most of the time. The closest I could get was 80 yards. I saw 110 bears, and was less than 20 yards from 20 different bears (great video). I carried an ACS Adcock CX 63# at my draw with 650gr beeman carbon classics which were 21% f.o.c. My self imposed limit on distance was 25 yards. A hunt like this is like going into battle, and if your an atheist, I don't recommend it. I found a peace while hunting, even with the incredible intensity. The only arrow I let go was when a thumped a 7footer in the rump at 17 yards (on video) I declined the use of the rifle on the big bear, which was the right decision for me, even on this once in a lifetime hunt.
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Someday
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Hope your going with backup!!I just finished hunting for one here.I had a draw for an area where bears on the average are 7-8.5 foot.I used a 64# long bow even though I didn't get a shot I felt comfortable.I think that is what counts.Hope your hunt goes well.
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I would not hesitate to use 60 lbs. Biggest job is getting close and staying cool so you can make a good shot when it presents its self. This is not easy to do as most of us are not accustomed to being that close to a big animal like a brown bear. Good luck to you . Alaska Jim
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make sure you are backed up all bears are vey fast way faster than you and there have been charges that were not stopped by guns so be mentally prepared for what ever woodbender
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when Fred killed his grizzly isn't that the only bear he needs grizzly/Brown.. same bear diffrent locations??
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sticbow,
If you are talking about Fred Eickler he did take a Brown bear last spring in Alaska. He took a grizzly, black bear and Polar Bear all in the same year, 2005.
P&Y and B&C recognize Grizzly bears and Brown bears as being seperate species in their record books.
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Jack
did not know that..learn something everyday on this great site...so you do need the griz and brown bear both for the slam..plus others..
Scott
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sticbow,
Yup, and at last count I only need twenty-five more to complete mine.
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G'day guys, I don't get much of a chance to get on here often but whenever I do I always find some good info.
I'm a "bowhunting only" outfitter here in Australia for Water Buffalo, Axis deer and hogs.
This year I'm taking time off from guiding in October and have booked a hunt on the Alaskan Penninsula for Brown Bear.
Last year some of the Trad guys helped me with some questions on bow weight, arrow weight and broadhead preference. I've taken that all on board and believe I'm on track there.
Now I'm hopeing that some of you fellows that have hunted Brown Bear, might be able to give me a little insight on what to expect in the way of actually hunting these big bears?
I believe we will be spoting and stalking bears on or along spawning creeks or along the coastline.
Could anyone give me some idea on just how sharp are these bears on movement and detail?
How does there hearing rate?
I imagine the noise of a river or beach could have a bearing on the noise factor?
Is their nose as good as a hog's say or better?
Did anybody take a Brown Bear on the Penninsula with Trad gear last Fall?
I know that if a shot opportunity presents itself it won't be the equipment in check but the guy behind it.
I'd appreciate any advise.
Bill.
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Basalt, sorry I can't help you as far as experience on a spot and stalk. The hunt I did was from tree stands set near where bears were known to fish.I can tell you they have a super scense of smell though. We tried to keep our scent to a minumum and approached and left our stand sites by walking in the streams we were hunting over. You might want to read the book Bear Hunting in Alaska by Tony Russ.
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Yes, phenomenal noses and hearing and will pick up any movement but stationary objects they may overlook. When a bear is on fish they can really get distracted so your odds of getting close will go up if they get distracted by fishies.
It's difficult to find anyone to fly residents onto the penninsula for bears as the outfitters seems to have the flight service kinda locked up from what I understand.
You won't need as much bow for these bears as you do for your buffs.
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Jack,
thanks, I will try and get a copy of that book. Did you encounter many bears during your hunt?
Thanks Steve,
that's what I expected and I'm hopeing we can come across them fishing.
From what I can gather the outfitters have certain hunting concessions on the penninsula? I think that's how it works but I'm not sure?
That seems to be the case with the bow weight but I've desided to shoot my 68lb limbs [the sme ones I killed my Buffalo with] just to be sure.
My outfitter tells me that there are some good Black bear up there as well, not a lot but some real big guys. So he has suggested I get a Black bear tag as well ?
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The latest of Dr. Ashby's reports, on this site, dated 11272007, indicates that the key point in penetration is arrow weight. It also indicates that 650 grains is a key threshold for penetrating large bones.
If I had your opportunity I think I might go up to 700 or 750 grains. And based on his reports I would use a two blade head with a chisel point........Grizzlys most likely. In fact I have a few of those on hand in case of need.
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if you can, e-mail dr.don thomas. he has written extensively on alaskan bear hunting (brown and black) good luck on your trip
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68# would be a good number. I have carried either a 66# osage selfbow or 66# laminated longbow on my brown bear trips. I have one friend that shot one with a mere 55# longbow but it was a smaller bear.
I would highly suspect that the amount for a NR Alien black bear tag would just be $$ thrown away but I'd hate to have you find one nose down if you didn't get the opportunity based on what I said!
Most of the larger black bears are in Southeast Alaska but I'm sure they get some decent ones but I bet 300# or a bit more is upper top end where as that is an average adult male in SE AK. Plenty big however.
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Thanks Bill,
I'll be guiding and hunting with Doctor Don again this year in August and no doubt we will be talking Bear hunting over a couple of cold beers. I have read all of Uncle Don's books and they are a great read. Don has taken Russian Grizzly but has yet to take a Alaskan Brown bear I believe. He will be hunting them around the same time as I am this year and we hope to meet up at the end of the hunt.
I like to try and gather as much first hand info on the animals I plan to hunt, especially if I have never encountered them before so I appreciate any imput from the "Tradgang".
Yes Steve, I feel pretty comfortable with the 68lb and it won't have to be a monster Brownie just to get a crack at a mature boar will make me very happy.
I think you are right there with the Black bear tag but like you said, I'd hate to not have one and there was a good Blackie head down, bum up in front of me.
Steve I've only seen a couple of Black bear in the flesh and never actually got to draw on any. I've been studying a lot of DVD's on both Brown and Black bear to try and get some idea of what to expect but I bet there is nothing that can compare to a real life close encounter?
I know a lot of my clients have trouble picking the size of our Water Buffalo in both body and horn size simply because they have never hunted them or been up close to them before.
Just out of intertest, do Brown Bear eat Black bear or what?
Bill.
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Basalt,
I had four bears within twenty five yards of me during my ten day hunt. Two boars that didn't offer me the shot I wanted and a sow with a cub that walked directly under my stand at fifteen feet or so. Without a doubt, the most adrenline filled hunt I have ever been on.
One evening years ago while hunting elk in Montana I had a grizzly follow me back to camp wolfing all the way. Pretty exciting experience too!
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I shot a 501# black bear with a 65# recurve and standard 2261's with Bear heads. The arrow went through on a quartering away shot that entered the last rib and exited out the shoulder blade on the other side. 500# is a small brownie so I wouldn't carry anything less than 65# if it was me!
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Sorry about that. My fingers are quicker than my brain. They were 2216's.
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Jack,
I see we have another animal/hunt in common, :thumbsup: I hunted them last spring.
Basalt,
You are in for a great hunt, I almost managed to return this spring to backup Steve on his upcoming brown bear hunt but the wife had other plans. The one thing I will stress is how quick they are. I took a shot at one from twenty five yards with a 63# Robertson Peregrine and 675gr arrow, the string hit my arm guard when releasing the arrow, and the bear turned 180 degrees and was five yards away before the arrow arrived to where he was. He was quick! A side note, Steve H was the one who put my brother and me in this location, thanks again Steve. Also, I have a friend (Neil Jacobsen of Bar Paw Bows) who shot one last summer at 30 yards while it was feeding on fish. The arrow was just a little back but in the kill area so he reached for another arrow, the bear caught the movement and immediately charged and his guide had to shoot it at ten yards. You probably have a lot more experience on after shot movement then any of us but it can’t hurt to be reminded.
Steve,
Mindy got hitched on Saturday, when are you and Doug going after the Brownies? He mentioned “numerous times” when I saw him last Thursday that he would be related to an Alaskan resident.
Walt Francis
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Jack,
That sounds like a great hunt and I think getting the right shot angle will be the key to a successful shot. Shot or no shot I know it will be a great hunt!
I bet you made that trip back to camp quicker than the trip out hey !
Walt,
Thanks for the info. I knew that those bears were quick but I didn't know just how quick. Now I have a better idea of their speed!
Yes that "after shot movement" is not good. Even though I try and drum it into my clients to
" become a tree", I've been on the recieving end of a few wounded hogs over the years from just that.
I hope my brain remembers that, if the time arises!
Bill Baker.
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Basalt,
You are in for a great adventure! I feel fortunate just to have had the experience of hunting them once in my life. Best of luck!
Walt,
Lions, Brown bears and now I see Mt goats too.
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..and yes, brownies kill and eat blackies. I actually found a dead brownie on one trip to Unimak that was likley killed by another brownie but nothing was eaten off of that carcass.
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Originally posted by Danny Rowan:
Just make sure you can out run your guide.LOL. Ya gotta be nuts to hunt something that can eat you, with a bow,IMHO.
Danny
Hey Danny,That Bison could have stomped you into a little mud puddle on the prairie...just sayin'
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Originally posted by Zbone:
Didn't Papa Bear use a 65 pounder on all his Alaskan game?
Pretty sure he used 70#. I was in awe of Mr.Bear.I also like that he was also left handed like me... :thumbsup: :campfire:
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Hey, I know we all are die-hard traditional bow hunters here, but I can't beleive that no one has not said to make sure you carry a 454Kazool or .50cal. pistol in a cross belly belt holder in case everything goes terribly wrong. Yes, if you shot it with an arrow from your bow, he charges you and you end up shooting the bear with lead from your pistol to stay alive, who cares about a record book entry, at least you'll be alive to book another hunt. Everyone, thinks it won't happen, but I would want everyone taking on the challenge to carry a side arm for their health. Just the way I see it. :pray: Marty
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I thought Bear used 65# exclusively for all his hunts!
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i afraid bears in forest. How can i get that fear off...where i live, bears are much smaller then alaskas bears, but still. There is like 3bear attacks in 4 years, but still i afraid them :(
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Clone......what video is your bear hunt on? I would love to see it. Trkytrack