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Main Boards => Dangerous Game => Topic started by: foudarme on April 26, 2007, 04:43:00 PM
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I would like to know for all of those who shoot heavy bows over 80# what are the types of arrows you are using: filled alu or carbon ? wood arrows ? caliber, etc....
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I use laminated birch and ash from my heavy bows. My 84# Strunk osage selfbow will only shoot heavy arrows well as is the case with most heavy bows. I don't think you can get the weight you need from carbons or aluminums. Just my observations, a glass backed bow might be different.
Curt
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Originally posted by Anvil:
I don't think you can get the weight you need from carbons or aluminums.
Curt
yes I got the weight....a 6075 carbon express filled with a 8gr/inch mass tube + a 250gr point can reach 830gr, it flies pretty well on my 90# LB....a 2317 filled with a plastic tube and the same field point can reach 1000gr, the flight can be excellent according to the shot bow....but I would like to know other experiments such like yours in order to try them, I have some difficulties with a 80# FF schaffer for which my favorite arrows are too weak...could you talk a little more about your arrows' weight and spine...
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no other heavy shooters?????
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Out of the 84# Self bow I use Tapered Laminated Birch spined 70-75 with 160grs up front for a total weight of 800gr. I find that the lam birch act stiffer than their spine rating.
I would be at a loss to recommend anything out of an 80# Silvertip as I don't shoot recurves. I would say to post your question on the main forum because it is visited more frequently.
Hope you find some answers.
Curt
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Years ago I was using a Martin Lynx recurve with 80 lb limbs. I shot 2317 eastons weighted with plastic tubing glued in place with silicone.
The arrows finished out around 780 grains. The silicone took a long time to dry and sometimes I got quite a variation in weight.
I got good results with this set up so I never really tried anything else with that bow.
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Originally posted by Bonebuster:
Years ago I was using a Martin Lynx recurve with 80 lb limbs. I shot 2317 eastons weighted with plastic tubing glued in place with silicone.
The arrows finished out around 780 grains. The silicone took a long time to dry and sometimes I got quite a variation in weight.
I got good results with this set up so I never really tried anything else with that bow.
I done the same thing with a single plastic tube of equal internal 2317 diameter...it makes a 915gr arrow which flies pretty well...however I found it too heavy for a 80# bow...780gr looks like a very good weight...
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Did someone tried a 2117 shaft filled with a 1916 one or something else like that????
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Yeah, Paul Schaffer glued one arrow inside another for Africa. I think it came up to 700+grains just for the shaft.
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Alot depends on your draw length, I draw about 29" and had a VERY hard time find ANY single shaft that would work. It also depends which bow you are shooting, some need more spine than others. About 10 years ago I was trying to work up heavy arrows for a 85# Black Widow, you can use the 2117 with the 1916 like Paul Schafer used for his cape buffalo and it works well, but has a very high spine. I saw a chart once that had the spine and weight with lots of aluminum duplex combinations. I NEVER found ANY wood shaft that had enough spine for me, except the Forgewood Battleshafts, which were compressed yellow hemlock, but even then I needed the 90-95 spine and they were impossible to get and are not being made currently. To get enough spine in other woods they will be large diameter, not what I wanted. I finally ended up using a 2219 aluminum with a 35-55 Goldtip carbon inside. Theses fly better than any other arrow I ever shot and end up at about 970 grains, but are fairly expensive and a pain to make. There are lots of other combinations of carbons and or aluminums available now.
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Rick, I am 28" of draw length....you're quite right, some great differences occur in the spine at the same draw weight cause some bows are more center shot than others....I have a 90# french recurve for which the 60/75 CE and 75/95 GT carbon filled arrows are too stiff though the same arrows are too weak for my 80# silvertips...but sometimes a too stiff arrow can be easily corrected with a 200-250 or even much more (100gr brass insert + 250gr point) field point (or broadhead), it could even become an advantage if you whish to reach the famous extreme FOC from Ashby...I should be really pleased if you can re-find (or give me some indications about where I could find it) the chart with "the spine and weight with lots of aluminum duplex combinations".
From your experiment I will keep in mind that a 35-55 goldtip can pretty well fill a 2219 shaft...I have both of them so I will try it...Myself, I tried a 2317 filled with a 2117 shaft...I had no spine tester but the arrow obtained was extremly stiff...Maybe other ideas from other shooters ????
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At the top of this page is Cory Mattson with the Aussie water buff he killed with arrows he copied from my buff arrows. To get the GT to be a snug fit I wrapped it with a spiral of COTTON sewing thread. I used cotton, since when I tried it with nylon and shot it, all the thread slid to the front, the cotton stayed in place and the GT has to be pushed in. I personally do not care for the high foc arrows. Historically 12% foc has been the preferred amount and in my testing it still is with a properly weighted arrow.
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A Easton Axis shaft fits perfectly in a 2020 shaft. This arrow weighs a little less than the 2219/goldtip combo but it is also smaller in diameter.
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I shoot 2440 their called big game shafts.The shafts work very well out of 150# 160# longbow. When shot out of 120# compound they bend. marlon arrows weight are 1300 grains
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I just try a 2219 with a 250 field point, it looks like a good beginning...the weight, 690gr is too small, I would need to obtain 100gr of more...the idea with the 2020 looks very good...I have many of them but no easton axis...I would see for finding them...will see if the easton 340 would fit inside a 2020 shaft...It would be a great idea to make a post with all the duplex alu or carbon combinations known...
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no, the 340 from easton doesn't fit into the 2219
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I like the Ipe (Brazillian Mahogany) shafts that Allegheny Arrows sells. Nice and heavy, they straighten easily, AND they seem to stay straight.
When I bought mine for the Australian Buffalo hunt, he had them in spine weights over 90 pounds.
Dr. Ashby's data shows that heavy wood arrows experience less "point of impact" breakage on buffalo ribs than carbon arrows. Not sure why, but that's what the data shows.
They sure look a lot nicer than carbon or aluminum arrows.
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I used to shoot a Morrison Cougar that pulled app. 78@29. I had really good flight with Grizzly sticks. When I bought them they only made two versions. I think they were Safari's or something along those lines. I shot them with the brass insert and a 175 gr. tip. I think they came out to a finished weight around 730-750 grs. Don't remember exactly.
Chris
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I shoot 30" Gold Tip Big Game 100s with 12.5" of a Cabelas 230 SST glued just inside the point assembly with Gorilla glue, and 250 gr of weights behind an aluminum insert, a 125gr steel adaptor, and a 160 gr. head. 1030 grains, and shoots bare shaft dart straight out of my 80# BW PLX. 24% FOC. THis gives the thin shaft that Ashby says provides the best penetration, the extreme FOC that similarly he likes, and the weight and spine required to work from the heavy bow. They are an incredible pain to make, but the Gold Tips are extremely tough. Blew through two hogs last weekend like the arrow never even hit the animal. - Jay Campbell, JD
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Originally posted by Jay Campbell, JD:
I shoot 30" Gold Tip Big Game 100s with 12.5" of a Cabelas 230 SST glued just inside the point assembly with Gorilla glue, and 250 gr of weights behind an aluminum insert, a 125gr steel adaptor, and a 160 gr. head. 1030 grains, and shoots bare shaft dart straight out of my 80# BW PLX. 24% FOC.
could you post a picture with all your adds laid just in front of your GTBG shaft...
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I made today the bare shaft planning test with some safari grizzlystiks. I mounted a 615gr shaft with a 250gr field point either a 865gr arrow. I Shot them with my silvertip which is 83# at my draw length...great arrows. After I tried them with a 290gr grizzly broadhead; then a 280gr ACE and a 260gr Eclipse. The fly is excellent as far as 25 yards, but after it needs to be tuned for the further distances...I will test them on my 110# BW ASAP.
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I'm just trying to bareshaft tune some 75/95 gt's with 100gr brass insert, 100gr steel broadhead adaptor and 190 gr tusker and not having much luck. the GT big game 100's with the same setup up front seem to tune a bit better but are right on the the limit of being to short for my draw which is 29" and they are cut down to 30 1/2" seem to be flying alright. I also have a tube from 3 rivers up the guts which brings them to around 750gr. does anyone knw of a carbon with stiffer spine than the big game?
BEAR
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Originally posted by bear74:
I'm just trying to bareshaft tune some 75/95 gt's with 100gr brass insert, 100gr steel broadhead adaptor and 190 gr tusker and not having much luck. the GT big game 100's with the same setup up front seem to tune a bit better but are right on the the limit of being to short for my draw which is 29" and they are cut down to 30 1/2" seem to be flying alright. I also have a tube from 3 rivers up the guts which brings them to around 750gr. does anyone knw of a carbon with stiffer spine than the big game?
BEAR
have you try to put a thicker side plate on your riser...sometimes it's a good way for compensating a too weak arrow...I have ever try this solution on a bow and it was sufficient...
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I had Bob Burton, of Whispering Wind Arrows, make up some Diamond Wood shafts for me. I have a short draw...26". These arrows, with Magnus 125 grain head, weigh 960 grains.
I have take two Water Buffalo and one Cape Buffalo with them. On the Cape, I shot through a rib and SEVERED it, then SEVERED a rib on the off side. On both Water Buff, I went through ribs on the near side and then lodged in a rib on the far side. The Cape was down in 8 seconds. One Water Buff made about 100 meters, wobbling all the way. The second one went 36 meters!
The bow was a Morrison 54" recurve of 74 pounds at 26". I'm going back again for both species. A great arrow makes all the difference.
Too Short
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Paul, What do you think about the extreme FOC concept Dr. Ashby brings forward? I know Rick McGowan is not excited about it, because of tuning difficulties. Your arrows would have a fairly normal FOC with a 125 gr head, and you've had great success. I've never experimented with it until getting ready for this buffalo hunt, and lucked into having perfect bareshaft and broadhead flight out of these 1000gr, 24% FOC SST carbons-within-Gold Tip carbons I built. But, except for shooting two hogs last week (the arrows never even slowed down passing through), I don't have any real world experience with them. They are going all the way through my broadhead target, though. :-) - Jay Campbell
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Originally posted by 8th Dwarf:
I had Bob Burton, of Whispering Wind Arrows, make up some Diamond Wood shafts for me. I have a short draw...26". These arrows, with Magnus 125 grain head, weigh 960 grains.
I didn't succeed to find a web site for whispering wind arrows, do you have a link...regards
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Here you go...
Whispering Winds (http://www.whisperingwindarrows.com/)
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thanks so much...and beautiful black bear !!!!!
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I tried today some 1716 inside 2020 shafts...after bare shaft tuning I get a perfect 25 meters bare shaft flight with a 175gr field point shot with a 80#@28 FF silvertip...the total weight of the arrow is 855gr for a 29" length...
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My heavy arrows are Grizzlystik Safaris from Alaska Bowhunting Supplies. They are 880 grains total. That's with a 30" shaft, the 75 grain brass insert, a 125 grain adaptor, and a 160 grain tip / head (and arrow wrap, nock, and feathers).
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I'm shooting 880gr arrows out of my 80# @26" HH
2117 filled with plastic tubing 200gr broadhead and 150gr weigths
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I am using 900 grain Hickory Shafts with 160 grain points. They shoot well from my 94# hill style longbow. I have also used ash. They are tough too!
I had used a 1916 inside a 2117 from my 85# Silvertip with very good performance. That is the only bow that I could get those arrows to fly well from though.
justin
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I've tried for a long time to find heavy spined wood arrows (.24 deflection), but can't find them in my draw length 30-1/2"), so only shoot GT carbons at this point. The setup I use for my 80# curve is a 4-fletch Traditional 75-95 cut 31" BOP with a 100 grain brass insert and a 235 grain head. Total weight comes in at 730 grains, or just over 9 gr/lb. This shoots very well for me.
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http://africanhuntinginfo.com/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=379
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Carbon Express 350's, plastic weight tube, 3 brass inserts, Stos broadhead, 5 1/2" feather..crested. 925 grains- 77 lb. Horne Recurve. Hit like a truck.
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I shoot a 93# osage longbow. out of it I use 23/64 cedars spined at 80+. Top them off with 160 or 190 gr grizzlies. took a elk with them this year.
I have also had fun and taken game with 3/8 hardwood dowels that I bought off of ****. Fully made up with 4 fletch and 190s they flew great. Heavy, I don't remember exact weight. Only animal I tested them on was a muledeer at about 40 yards. complete pass through.
BigArcher
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i shoot gold tip traditional out of a 67# boblee. 175 tip total is 750. the brass weight adapters work well very consistant weight and easy to tune, weight adapters are at the tip and nock. you could make them as heavy as you want still with a small diamiter i shoot the 5575 one level under the stiffest. they are heavy for my bow but still go 195 fps. i could go heaver easy. just ad and remove at will between groups for tunning. ive tried stuffing shafts with yarn, tubing, anything i could try i did, the most consistant stuffing was fiberglass matting all pealed down to the individual fibers and compressed in a easton epic, it went from 490 to 980 but that was way to heavy for a 52# bow.
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I bare shafted full length 75# carbon express arrows with my 61# BW recurve. It ended up that the arrows were perfectly spinned for my bow at full length (32" or so) and weighed about 650 grains. This method will work unless you gap shoot. Also as jrchambers mentioned: Goldtips are very versitile arrows! You can put weight tubes inside the arrows or you can add screw-inserts to the point or knock end of the arrow. If you add weight to the point end you will weaken the arrow. If you add weight to the knock end you will strengthen the arrow. Try adding weight to your knock end to stiffen your arrow back up. Pay attention to the FOC(at least 2"FOC). Finally as mentioned before and the fix to all your problems but very expensive are the Alaska Bowhunting Supply "Grizz Stiks". I have the Alaskans and Safaries. They are awesome, beautiful, tapered and very heavy. Check them out and The cheaper/quick route are the Goldtips with their versitility. Hope this helped
AKbearb8
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5/16' Ipe shafts from Aeronut, 160 grain magnus total weight 870 grains.
I like them a lot.
Bert.
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The PSE Black Mamba shafts are the best I have seen for a "Tunable" extreme heavy arrow. They come with a fuzzy weight tube and a steel footing piece. The 3 one shot kills on Asian buff and the fact that all 3 could be reused are a testament to their toughness.
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110# BW. i can barly lift that much, but how you guy make heavy arrows is very instering. Doug77
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Either cedar or hardwood.Usually about 780 grains with broadhead.I don't shoot over 80 any more though,I am down to 70# @28".
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i shoot a 90# @31 silvertip. gold tip big game steel adaptor brass insert and fishtank tubing
and you can get your arrows petty hevy.the tubing i get from home depot and at 30" its about 300 grains