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Main Boards => Dangerous Game => Topic started by: featherhorn on May 22, 2010, 09:34:00 AM
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What is your opinion on the best broadhead for water buffalo i am going to try them around but dont really know what broadhead to go with. my arrow weight is 695gn without a broadhead
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Sharpest well-built head you can find or afford.
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I know you will get a ton of responses here, and I will say I have never shot a buff, so what I have to say is only MY opinion. However I have shot most BHs into north american game and into inatimate objects of many flavors just to see what they will do. I have spoken several guys who have shot buff with the longbow. Last year I gave the ashby modified grizzly a go on 6 deer and 6 hogs and discovered some good and bad stuff. There are several heads that should be strongly considered first teamers to include several new heads like the ashby, the no mercy, abowyer gizz etc. However after much thought on the matter I would prefer the diamond tip Magnus II as it gives the best combination of all things needed. I think a zwicky eskimo or a stos would also be excellent choices with the tip slightly modified. My tests have shown that the tip design on the single bevels bleeds off too much energy, even when sharpened all the way to the tip. On this game you need all you can get.
I spent time at PBS Nashville talking with Monty Browning on this, and he said some pretty insightful things. He is the only guy I know who has put the arrow ALL the way through an adult bull so he is a guy worth listening to. He used the hunter head for a variety of reasons, and for those reasons the Magnus II would be my first choice.
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Lots of good heads out there...just make it sharp (scary sharp) and well placed.
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I put two Grizzlies through the hide, ribs, and hearts of bull two water buffalo on Melville Island with a good and heavy Howard Hill longbow and Ipe shafts. Neither bull made it farther than 15 yards.
However, I think you would benefit more from hearing from my hunting partner. He put two Grizzlies clear through two big bulls with a light-weight recurve. CLEAR THROUGH! (Derned Olympic technology!).
I will see if I can get him to tell the you tale. It's a good one.
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I guess the big question would be, Go with a single or double bevel broadhead?
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I'm a big fan of the German Kinetic 200 grain head
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Yep...Silver Flame German Kinetic...
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(http://www.buffsblackwidow.com/images/broadhead.JPG)
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Did that head go through a rib on the way in or did it pass between them?
thanks
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(http://i530.photobucket.com/albums/dd349/ozyclint/DSCF2756.jpg)
i've shot a bull and a cow with a bob lee recurve 69#@28" (i pull 28") total arrow weight was 890gr. i used a blackstump on both. the first shot on the bull went through the scapula and got one lung. the second centered the heart and put a hole in the far side of the beast. both shots were at 10m. the cow was a pass through at 20m. took out both lungs.
i think in his testing ashby says that his 2nd choice behind his modified grizzly is the blackstump. i can get them truly scalpel sharp and i couldn't do that with the grizzlies so i sold them and used the blackstumps.
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Originally posted by calgarychef:
Did that head go through a rib on the way in or did it pass between them?
thanks
I shot 4 Buffalo. everyone the arrow busted thru the near side rib and stuck in the off side rib
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Originally posted by BUFF:
Originally posted by calgarychef:
Did that head go through a rib on the way in or did it pass between them?
thanks
I shot 4 Buffalo. everyone the arrow busted thru the near side rib and stuck in the off side rib [/b]
I'm still confuse Buff....from all I've read, you MUST hit ribs going in due to them being staggered/overlapped....bouncing, glancing, slipping your way into the goodies.....
I believe what he asked is did you BUST one of those ribs or did you bounce,glance,slip through them....big difference.
If you did BUST one of those ribs, you should have pics....and I'd like to see that.
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we didn't skin the near side. I would guess the arrows split the ribs as even after I pulled the heads off the arrow was still tight pulling it thru the rib, if that makes any since. Sort of like pulling you arrow back thru a board fence
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Your total arrow weight should give you enough energy to get the job done with any sharp one piece head.
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Who makes the Blackstump brodhead?
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Have a look here
http://www.blackstumpbroadheads.com.au/
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I used a 200 grain STOS , any quality heavy head would work as these guys are saying. Love to try the alaska bowhunting heads (ashby) but I just really cant afford them. The STOS did just fine, excellent penetration in front of a grizzly stik with brass insert and steel adapter. 76# Silvertip.
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Why are the 300 grain Steel Force BH's never mentioned in these threads? Who has the inside scoop on them?
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A .308 round mounted on a blunt tip arrow with a little nub to fire the round on impact. The other choice is a very tough and sharp COC BH. :thumbsup:
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Use a broadhead that isn't to wide and has a thick blade. I curled the tip of a journeyman head on a moose. I didn't think it was possible until I saw it.
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I'd also like to see some more info on the Steel Force 300's. I've got some VPA's in 300 but I'd like some two blade 300's to round out my quiver. Would like to hear some feedback and pics from users.
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hmmm three rivers still lists them on line but I couldn't find them on the SteelForce web site. Maybe they aren't in production anymore.
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Apparently, the 300 grain Steelforce heads are a 3 Rivers exclusive. They are still in production.
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how about a 225 gr tuff head. I've never used one but they seem like a good design, and I think they're coming out with a 300 gr head
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That tuffhead, (I found this looking for info in search lol) is the head I wanted to ask you big boy game hunters.
Dang that looks like a winner to me.
Being glue on, pretty easy to make the total head WAY up there in weight if wanted for those shooting screw in types. Lifetime warrantee like some others as well.
Looks so much like an Ashby head, but glue on (that is all I use)......I gotta try some.
Whos got traders? LOL
God Bless
(http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj170/Steve692/Broadheads/Tuffhead.jpg)
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Tuffhead Looks like the best option on paper. I will be trying some out on game nowhere near as tough as a cape buff.
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Can't believe nobody has mentioned the "nanook" heads. I love them and at 315 grains and sharper than thought possible...they are awesome.
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Take a look at the new VPA 2 blades
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I'd have to say yay on the VPA 2 blade also.
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I think Im going with Ace broadheads they will be weighed up to 300gn For the money you cant beat em and I can get them SCARY sharp with ease
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The ones that presently look to be among the best are the VPA 300 grain Penetrators, the ABS Ashbys, the TuffHead and the Silver Flame -- all of them 2 blade models.
Allan
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Grizzly, VPA two Blade, Tuffhead, Abowyer Brownbear lot off good stuff !
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I've been playing with a tough 2 blade and now have them in stock. It's called a
Widowmaker 215 dangerous Game Head and to date is proving extremely tough. They are Industrial Steel adapter with a stainless 303 blade 1.2mm thick.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v518/trophybowhunts/IMG_1308-2.jpg)
Send me a e-mail if interested in testing them out.
Cheers
Mick
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That looks like a heck of a head. Does it weigh 215 g?
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Blaino
Yep they are 215grns and some are heading over for a bit of testing.
Cheers
mick
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Guys I have some on E-Bay if anybody is interestd. 130 & 215gn Heads...Widowmaker...
Cheers
MIck
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I just bought the pack of 215's you had on ****, they look badass and a GREAT price !!!
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Any real world tests on the TuffHeads, actual game or simulated?
Sarge
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Buddy of mine on tg shot this cow pelvis at the thickest spot with wood arrows, the 225 grain tuffhead broadhead, using what I believe was a 64# recurve. Minimal damage to the head that honed right out.
(http://i224.photobucket.com/albums/dd102/pdk25/IMG958306.jpg)
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Coming back to this thread Ill give you some info from the field
Last year I did quite a bit of testing on buffalo, both live and on the ground. Did some with clients and some on my own.
Also over the last few years guiding Buffalo Safari's I get to see a lot arrows hitting Buffalo First hand.
So here are a few things which may be of interest.
Firstly there are a lot of heads that work well, some no doubt better then others.
Ok the Water Buff ribs do not truly overlap, you can slip one through if you get very lucky, 90 of the time you will be hitting a rib though.
(http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h101/tradtusker/IMG_1374.jpg)
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The Photo above is of the 3 ribs that cover the "sweet" Spot.
On the topic of broadheads We'v had a bunch of heads used over the last few years outside of what i have tested.
Some worked well, some did not, some failed as a result of a poor hit, some just got unlucky, and some directly as a result of the broadhead failing upon impact.
There are 2 main failure's i see in broadheads.
Both are from poor structural integrity be it due to the design or the material of the head or both.
Of the 2 failure's the worst is the head actually breaking, this usually happens within the front third of the head near the tip, usually right in front of where the ferrule taper ends and it just becomes the blade. Its is a hinge point, where the heads that are to brittle and hard to bend so just break.
Im am in two minds as to actually Name the heads iv seen break and bend "consistently", I am only putting this information up to help other hunters and can think of nothing worse then someone booking a hunt of the lifetime and having the head they choose Fail them. So I think if you want to know Just PM me.
The Second failure which is quite common is the head bending this is also most common near the tip of the head. But iv seen the head bend through the ferrule and at the insert.
Either way if the head bends or breaks upon hitting a bone, its going seriously hider penetration and your in trouble.
The next most common failure is the head bending at the Insert or the insert breaking out of the shaft or splitting it. And is the main reason i Foot "all my arrows" no mater what i hunt. Why risk that when there is a way to fix it.
There are quite a few specialist big game heads out now if i can call them that. But they are not all made the same, in fact there have been some serious issues with some. And just because a head may cost $30 or $40 each...does not mean it is the best!
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There where a few heads that did well last year, Zwickey for a age old is worth a mention...seen a lot of buff go down to one.
That Tuff head is looking good, will see that in action this year.
Quite surprisingly this head last year Topped them "ALL", I knew it would be good but did not realize just how good.
And Yes it is a 3 Blade...
(http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h101/tradtusker/IMG_1046.jpg)
300gr VPA
Not only did it hands down beat all the others in testing and matched some of the highest dollar single bevel 2blades for Penetration, Hands down the best structural Integrity. Best anti deflection on angled impacts.
Its was also the only head i have seen go clean through a Buffalo and into the ground on the other Side.
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Anyone try the VPA penetrators yet, Andy? I have some of those, too. I don't know how many Buff you are gonna have to get me in front of to do all of the testing I want too, lol.
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Yes Iv used the VPA Penetrators and know a couple other guys that have already killed Buffalo with them, they are a Top choice, Id say the Strongest 2 blade head on the market, and would be my first choice for a 2 blade.
Bring a couple extra of each and we'l put them through their passes.
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Those 3 blade 300gns look the bomb. I have two at home and they are beautifully constructed .
If I shot enough poundage [ plus 65# ] I wouldn't hesitate to shoot them at any critter In Oz ...
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I got my Widowmaker 215g dangerous game bh's in the mail today, I have to say, these are without a doubt the sharpest bh's I have ever owned! Just looking at them I think there is NOTHING in the U.S. that these badboys cant take down! These things are SICK!!! I am blown away with the quality and cant wait to blast through some hogs with them. Some bh's you might look at and be a little sceptical about using them, not these, Im ready to hunt water buffalo! THANKS Trophy Bowhunts Australia !!!
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Perfect? Nothing's perfect. But I think these are very, very good.
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b265/don700/misc/IMG_0410cc.jpg)
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b265/don700/misc/IMG_0405cc.jpg)
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b265/don700/misc/IMG_0423cc.jpg)
The heads weigh 273 grains, the custom Stainless Steel insert weighs 111 grains. A typical 2.5" external footer will add 20-25 grains to that. The heads are 2.45" long and 1.125" wide. The max ferrule diameter is .375", just like the traditional Grizzly Grande, and the ABS Ashby broadheads. The internal ferrule design means the ferrule will never bend or break.
I have pics of them going through 2.4" of bone -
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b265/don700/misc/IMG_0462cs.jpg)
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Heyyyy, I've seen those heads before on a certain African hunting site. If you have too many, I'll be happy to take the excess off your hands! :D
Andy aka ACRecurve
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Sorry, Andy. Not many left and two ahead of you.
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Any chance of another run, Don?
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that is a great looking head
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Thanks for the compliments.
I'm not planning another run. VPA has all the rights for production if there's ever enough demand. I'd really be proud if they catch on, but I realize there's not many buff/elephant/rhino/hippo or giraffe hunters out there.
Contact Ray at VPArchery if interested.
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Thanks, Don...will do. I'd be interested in 6 or 12 of them, unless they cost $100 each or something! I'll contact him.
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I have been shooting the VPA Penetrators in both 175 and 200 grain sizes. I have a feeling that the 250 grain version would be all the broadhead anyone could ask for at a very reasonable price. The smaller ones just appear to be a bit steep on the cutting angle. Gonna shoot a couple of bears with them soon and I will let you know how they perform.
DDave
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Ya the 250 and 300gr VPA 2 blades are hands down the Strongest and best quality 2 blade heads iv ever seen.
I have a few of the new VPA off-set Single bevel heads coming to test out on Buffalo this season. They finish up at 325gr. Ill have a full report on them at the end of the season.
Don...when is your hunt?
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Andy,
My hunt is a Cape Buff in Tanzania in early July.
Don
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Lucky Bugger! all the best, some wild country out there. How many days you got out there?
If you get a chance please could you post a pic of the Insert you have for that head. un installed.
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Andy,
The buff hunt is 10 days, I'll be in country a little over two weeks. Hunting Mt. Loosimingur with Rainer Josch. Spot and stalk on dagga boys. :archer:
(http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b265/don700/misc/Untitled.jpg)
Here's a pic of the adapter. You can make an adapter for any .204 ID shaft out of a threerivers brass 100 grain HIT insert, or any other HIT insert and a half-inch 8-32 setscrew or allthread. But they might not be as tough.
The shaft has to be 5/16 OD exactly, so any 20xx or anything footed with a 20xx will work.
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Don, I emailed Ray. He says we'd probably need to have an order for ~100 pieces to do another run. He's going to give me a price in a couple of days. Is it ok if I use your BH pics to work on getting the order together?
Thanks,
Andy
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Andy,
You are welcome to use any info you can find, or talk me into creating. All the pics posted anywhere are public domain, and the photobucket album they come from is public.
I will try to find a photographer among my at work to take some good pics. Mine pretty much suck. I'd especially like to get a good pic of the tip.
I'm glad someone is interested enough to do it. Between work and 39 days of scheduled hunting this year I have zero time. (Life's tough ain't it! :) )
Put me down for a dozen heads: I've given too many away!
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Ray says these will cost $28.75 each (head and stem) if we order 100...$27 each if 200 are ordered. That's still less than the Ashby heads...but quite a lot for a broadhead. Guess we'll see if I can find enough folks who want to try them to get 100 and go from there.
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That's a pretty big price jump over the regular heads.
I wonder if it'd save a few bucks each to get them unsharpened? The as-machined heads are easily sharpened on a KME. I'd actually prefer that, and I assume most dangerous game hunters feel the same way. (??)
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I'll send Ray another email tonight and ask about as-machined heads. I'm thinking it will be difficult to get 100 sold at the price he quoted.
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I love the heads. The design is the best I have seen yet, although shaft selection certainly is limited. I may have to start working up shafts to fit them.
Allan
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How many you looking to get, Allan? Too late for me for this year.