Trad Gang
Main Boards => Dangerous Game => Topic started by: Col HJ on August 29, 2010, 12:36:00 PM
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Just some information some might find helpful
I have been a trad shooter of most of my 45 years and began tinkering with wheel bows in the early 90's. And like the compound setups of most others I always shot relatively light arrows with smallish 100 or 125 gr heads seeking high speed and flat trajectory....until now.
Having come to fully appreciate the benefits of high FOC arrows I got some pretty stiff carbons mated to 100 gr brass inserts + 200 grain field points and WOW do they shoot, and this is from a fairly speedy 70ish pound rig. But now is the time to get some suitable broadheads flying straight in time for the archery opener October 1st.
So having a dozen 200 gr Grizzly El Grandes I thought heck why not try...surely they they will wind plane all over the place but it's free to find out. So 200 gr head + 100 gr adapter +15 gr aluminum insert gets me pretty close, and all are very carefully spin tested and tweaked as neccessary before the epoxy dries and...they literally shoot like darts, same vertical point of impact as my field points and maybe a couple or three inches left at 30 yds. So kudos to Grizzly for making a big tough head that will fly at 230 FPS. Hell I even managed to sharpen 3 of them on a saturday.
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Sounds like you are ready to go. What did you sharpen them with? I am yet to develop that talent.......Randy
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Mostly patience....The recipe that worked for me was 30 degree hole on the Lansky sharpener,coarse/medium stones until there was a bit of an edge then deburr the flat side (with the 20 degree hole)and final sharpen the beveled side with the fine stone, all done with soapy water instead of oil. Then a final touch with a hard ceramic stone by hand.
The accuracy and consistency of the bevel is the achilles heel of the Grizzly heads, of the 3 I sharpened 5 bevels mated very well with the 30 degree hole on my Lansky while 1 matched the 25. And all had a defined square edge, not even approaching sharp. I really came close to giving them away but glad now I didn't, however once these are lost/bent/broke I would have a hard time buying again unless the quality is improved.
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I just resharpened some grizzlies that had missed their mark in Africa. They are one hell of a tough head but hellish to sharpen and I'm in the same boat about not replacing them.
the chef
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I have tried several different ways to sharpen the Grizzlies and by far,the best method I have found,is to use them in a KME broadhead sharpener on a DMT 120 or 220 Diasharp,diamond hone to set and straighten out the bevel,which goes very fast-a few minutes.The Diasharp is a 3"X8"X3/8" steel bar,the top surface of which is impregnated with diamond.After the bevel is worked out,I continue with a sreies of different grit wet or dry sandpapers,laid on top of the Diasharp hone.320,400,600,1000,1500,2000.It only takes a few minutes to establish the bevel but after that,it goes very fast.It only takes 6-10 strokes with each grit after that.You can stop at whatever grit you like or continue on and strop on cardboard after 2000 grit.You can see your reflection in this edge.
The flat,steel,Diasharp hone and KME broadhead sharpener,create a perfectly flat,true bevel.Ones that I have measured,come out to 26 degrees.The new Grizzlies go faster than the old.The 120 hone cuts faster and costs more than the 220 but the 220 works very well.I cut the sandpaper sheets in threes and after sharpening a couple dozen heads,I am still using my first piece in each grit.
Best price I have found on the 3"X8",220 grit
Diasharp hone is at sharpeningsupplies
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(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a140/jbrandenburg/BearTakedown061.jpg)
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Jim that looks impressive but you have too much time on your hands. The paper wheels will do the same thing in 2 minutes, and for way less money.
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Bastard file until you have a wire edge, Lansky Course, Medium, Fine stones at proper angle. Paper wheel to mirror finish and razor sharpen.
I abandoned the grizzlies until they came out with left bevel and a better initial grind on the bevel. I love the new ones.
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Originally posted by Ragnarok Forge:
[QB] Bastard file until you have a wire edge, Lansky Course, Medium, Fine stones at proper angle. Paper wheel to mirror finish and razor sharpen.
I was ready to throw the grizzlies in the trash after trying to get them sharp until I wound up doing what Ragnarok Forge does. I don't use a Lansky but still basically go through the same steps. The paper wheels do wonders. Just be careful not to get them too hot. I rest my fingers on the backside right where the wheel touches the broadhead. This way I can feel when the metal becomes warm. They are like razors now.
Dave
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love the Grizzlys, Razor Sharp!
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I just use a grobet mill bastard file and LIGHT pressure. Scare the hair right off your arm.
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Jim,congrats that's very impressive;I am not that good.
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Originally posted by Col HJ:
Mostly patience....
for sure !
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The very first thing you have to do to a grizzly is flatten the "flat" side....because it IS NOT flat.
The new heads apparently eliminate the 'bevel change' phase due to a different grind...but I don't have any of those.
I cannot get any other head as sharp as I can a grizzer.
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Two trips ago to Australia after buffalo, I ordered two dozen Grizzlies. They ruined two large Bastard files. The tempering was way off. They were so hard that they literally sliced steel off the files.
So. . . I ordered two dozen more with a request for proper tempering, and received two dozen perfect broadheads. They were exceptionally lethal. Still smilin' about that trip.
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Even in the new ones I take a couple strokes on the "flat" side to be sure it si "flat". Then just freehand with a file tile I get the edge sharp, couple few strokes. The paperwheels to polish.
After I flattened the flat - new style 160s - I went straight to the wheels and the wheels wouldn't touch em. That is why I went back and freehand filed them till sharp. Then the wheels did fine. That metal is that hard --
Paperwheels are hard ot beat.
J
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I bet that setup will go through anything!
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LOL...you guys must be retired to spend that much time on something that should have been sharp right out of the package or darn close to it. 8^)
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Trad-man you've hit on my biggest pet peeve! A broadhead should be sharp enough to hunt with when we buy them but sadly very few actually are.
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I agree...myself I like the softer steel. They may not stay sharp year round but they are easy to sharpen...in a reasonable period of time. Generally all you have to do to touch them up is run them over a leather strop and your good to go.
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guys i bought some grizzlys from 3 rivers awhile back but they have been out of stock for ages..wheres the best place to purchase some more?
im using combination of bog file bastard file and finish off with grit and paper wheel supplied by alaskan b/hunt supplies..
thankyou
pat
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Black Widow,
Lost Nation,
Kustom King,
I don't know if they have any in stock but they carry the product line.
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tried 3 rivers"dont know when they will get more stock"
tried kustom king "OUT OF STOCK, SORRY WE DON,T KNOW WHEN GRIZZLY WILL MANUFACTURER IF EVER AGAIN"
lost nation, right bevel special order only....
found his website,sent an email see how I go, good to be popular...
thanks for the help,pat...
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Grizzlies are very easy to sharpen using a 6" grobet milll bastard file. Trick is very light pressure. Scare the hair right off your arm.
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hmmm...from Aussie's post it looks like they have gone belly up. How can that be possible? I'll have to make some calls in the AM for verification...
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I made some calls..can't supply details...sit tight. I think if everybody is patient you will get what yu are looking for.
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i found his website and have sent 2 emails,no replys...anyone got any info as i do like the heads...
cheers
pat
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Pat, I think they produce them when they can as it is noot a full time business . Rumours abound ... but apparently they will be back at some stage .
Maybe we should stock up when they do eh !
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i reckon,they were a great price from 3 rivers,just have to keep me eye out....tried some eclipse the other day , they were nice..
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The best thing about the grizzlys is they fly better than field points.
If you are desperate for some heads and can't find any grizzlys, or are sharpener challenged, the Abowyer brown bear is nearly identical in size and shape and come very sharp. I can't tell the difference when shooting them from the grizzlys. I have only killed one smallish whitetail with the Abowyers so I can't really comment of the tuffness of the head compared to the grizzlys, as that wasn't much of a test.
You may also want to check with KME as they had some presharpened grizzlys a while ago.
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I love them El Grandes. I put a few into the rocks of TX last winter as well as some Ashby BHs. The rizzlys drew sparks, but no bends, nicks or damage. The Ashby heads snapped in half or had small nicks chipped off the edge of the blade.
Spoke to a machinist I kknow about it and he explained that SS is much more brittle than carbon steel and add the higher RC rating on the ABS head he was not surprised by my result.
I think the Abowyer and Tuffheads could be good replacements, but at almost 4x the pice! Will have to see how they come out price wise with the next batch as steel has gone up al lot in the last year.
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The tuffheads are SS and higher rockwell too.....
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Sounds like the Ashby heads have been tempered to the point of being brittle...not good.
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On the tuffheads. Keep in mind they are HC (high carbon) 420 SS, same stuff as in higher grade knife blades and sharpen just as well for me and Not the harder than H 440 SS which I believe the Ashby heads are?
I have an antler handle with arrow section that I use to sharpen heads. The Tuffhead and a flat diamond block works pretty good for me. Grizzlys I have to whang away with a file for awhile first.
Some REALLY NOT NICE PERSON walked off with my paper wheel out of the garage...so hand sharpening this year. Eh, still works. Something about the hand/file sharpening fits me and my "old and aint broke" attitude it seems.
Picked up some 190 (five I think, have to relook lol) Grizzlys, right bevel and have 3 160s (left bevel), 2 pretty used.
Nice heads, work great, 190s are the old style and "wrong for me" bevel (right) but I have RW feathers around
Never put the newer 200 grainers up on my priority list and now they arent around.
Grizzlys are definately the more economical so hope they "come back" but I like the Tuffhead just a bit better.
Betting critters wont be able to tell the difference LOL.
File wise, I think for decades Ive used "old cheap files" and better late than never, figured out that is a MISTAKE unless you have lots of patience.
File suggestions requested, yet like heads......some of the prices drive me nuts LOL
Old.....Poor.......bullheaded. Whatta combo!
God Bless
Steve
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Been using Brown Bears for 3 years now....both wings. Have only shot a couple of animals with them, but the head did all that I wanted. I sharpen them and Grizzlies with a Tormek and sometimes a paper wheel at home and a modified KME in hunting camp, also one of the little ABS drawthrough sharpeners is always in my pack. The Tormek is a wonderful machine, but costs about $700 with fixtures, and I wouldn't have it if sharpening weren't my business. It's good though; will get a Grizzly shaving sharp in about 5 minutes.
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I can vouch for the abowyer brown bears. I killed and recorved 6 deer and 4 hogs with the same broadhead. All out of under 50lb bows. Blood trails are ok but not massive in some cases. that said, I believe the ability to get them soooo sharp is the reason none of the above animals went farther than 50 yds. most only 20+ -. I also shoot two does one morning last year with the samari that abs sells. basically the same head , just a stainless model. kinda pricey but hold an edge really well.
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I pray for the come back of the El grandé !
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You guys may want to keep an eye out for the one Red Feather Archery plans to have VPA build.They are talking about a 200 gr,glue on,single bevel version of VPA's new Penetrator 2 blade.1 1/8" wide,they don't know the length yet but I suspect it will be similar to the El Grande in length.One quality head.
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of course , quality and price ...
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to be interesting an to fill the market hole of the disparition of the Grizzly a new one blade should be as wide as an el grande ... if not in the category quality and expensive the Brown bear AB or the Tuffhead are already available ... no need of a new new one exept les expensive of course :readit:
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Patience.....Grizzly is not dead.
Bill
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The secret is out. :D
Bill
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Originally posted by zipper bowss:
Patience.....Grizzly is not dead.
Bill
Whats the story with him? Did he just stop making them and get out of the buisness?
I cant see it bc he was making a killing at ETAR alone... when I was there 2 years ago everyone had tons of em and they were selling like hot cakes.... :confused:
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Dave
See the post that Bill from Zipper posted on Pow Wow:
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=109380
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Would love to get my hands on some of these heads. Sounds great.