Trad Gang
Main Boards => Dangerous Game => Topic started by: Storkfish1 on October 02, 2010, 04:23:00 PM
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Hey folks. Please forgive what may be a dumb question but in my own defense, I'm a complete and total newbie to the world of archery as a whole and the recurve bow in specific. I've been told by one extremely experienced hunter NOT to use vanes on a recuve bow and by another extremely expreienced hunter that it's fine... Any advice, thoughts, comments are very helpful! Thanks
:archer2:
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The majority of folks shooting trad bows use feathers. As a matter of fact, I don't think I've ever seen a traditional shooter, using vanes??
The primary difference, other than feathers are "traditional", is that feathers are much more forgiving when shooting off the shelf, and when shooting with fingers vs a release aid.
Additionally, stabilizing and guiding broadheads in flight requires fairly long feathers, i.e., at least 4.5", with most going with 5" or longer. A vane of that size is going to kick off the shelf and/or face plate causing more stabilizing & guidance problems.
My advice: go with feathers, and have Fun! :saywhat:
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I have been shooting recurve bows only since 1970. Never got into the compound craze and never will....
Anyway, I have bowhunted and taken a fair share of big game animals in CO, WY, NM, AZ and NV.
I always used 5 inch feathers and always used a 50 pound or so Bear take down recurve.
I have generally used Easton aluminum arrows in 2016 or 2018 spine. I have also used woodies built on Acme shafts.
I have experimented with vanes on occasion when they were more expensive than feathers.
Now that feathers cost in excess of $100, or more, to buy enough to fletch 100 arrows, I am again experimenting with vanes.
Feathers and vanes that I use are all 5 inch parabolic. Feathers are Trueflight right wing and the vanes are Martin.
I have always shot off of a Hoyt Pro or Super Rest so arrow flight has always been good with either product to date.
Also I have always used split 3 finger form and a Kant Pinch 300 tab with a calf hair face.
I think you should try a few vanes and decide for yourself.
Charles.
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I see the answer in the response posts but I'll rephrase it. The difference is in shooting off the shelf vs elevated rest. Vanes work fine off an elevated rest because there is so much less riser contact. When shooting off the shelf the stiffer vane will kick the nock end of the arrow away from the riser/shelf and result in inaccuracy where a feather collapses and doesn't affect the arrow as much. Stick with feathers.
John
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Also, I have seen when shooting off the shelf with vanes the vanes will auctally tear up the rug/ hair rest because there is no "give" in them.
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Thanks veyr much for the comments and for confirming my own thoughts folks! I'm glad I found this site and look forward to picking your brains as often as I can get away with.
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John hit it right on the head, as a buddy of mine shoots a Bear Paw Avian recurve with an elevated rest and shoots with vanes quite accurately.
Even though feathers take more of a beating, I love my arrows fletch in feathers, and for me shooting off the shelf that is the only way to go.
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I used to shoot cedars w/feathers until I moved to a rain forrest. Feathers could not handle the moisture and the terrain. I've tried all the water proofing supplies, but never came up with a solution that worked in S.E. Alaska. If you are going to shoot vanes, I suggest that you use a rest. I use the $2.50 Bear all weather rest. It works great for me, and I've never had one fall off. Don't worry about shooting all traditional and what everyone else is doing or thinks. Use what works for you. It's funny how many hard core traditional guys use feathers, but they put their feathers on carbon or aluminum. Best of luck and don't be afraid to use what's practical for your situation.
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Hay Tuttu
You beat me to it. I've shot both and also recommend vanes for very damp weather. Just got back from a hunt that rained almost every other day (it was like standing under the kitchen faucet kinda of rain ) and never worried about my equipment except my rain gear.
Cheers
Olin
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I agree with tuttu and kodiak, having lived in SE alaska for about 6 years it's safe to say that 99.9% of bowhunters don't know what it's like to hunt in the rain. I mean real rain. I mean nearly 200 inches a year, rain for 90 days straight rain. While living there I shot from elevated rests and used vanes, since moving to a much dryer Fairbanks I've been able to go back to the shelf and feathers.
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I don't know about some of the newer "shredded" vanes told to act like feathers, but generally vanes are heavier than feathers, and so a feather will leave the bow a little bit faster... so I'm told anyays.... I've not used a vane in years.
Feathers will collapse when they strike something, like the riser without unduly influencing arrow flight... meaning that shooting off the shelf with them is generally less of a problem, whereby vanes don't collapse and where there is an action, there is an equal and opposite reaction and that is usually not a desireable aspect of vanes off the shelf, henceforth all the rage of fallaway, flip away, or other get out of the way rests.
I don't shoot vanes anymore, but I do shoot feathers. I don't shoot off a rest, just off the shelf. I try not to shoot in the rain, but here in Hawaii it is generally inescapable but I've found a foolproof way to solve the rain issue with clear-wrap and a rubber band
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v305/rattus58/Wetfeather1003.jpg)
Pulling the clingwrap pulls the rubber band off with it without harm to the feathers..
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v305/rattus58/Wetfeather1004.jpg)
Clingwrap can be spray painted or tucked into a camo bag and then pulled over the feathers if you want a true camo for non-rain days with chance of rain... personally nowadays, if it is raining I'm in front of the fireplace... :)
I carry trash bags with me always and i have rubber bands and tiewraps in my pack, so in a pinch, I can always wrap one or two feathers if I'm caught.
I've soaked some feathers (well sprayed) in water proofing I used on my boots and I've used mink oil on others but haven't had the guts to go hunting with them "naked" to check it out. They work on a dipped arrow and shot, but that is not a cumulative effect from rain all day and that second shot after being dipped again hasn't been tried. It slows the arrow down (and why not, you're adding weight with spray) though... not enough to stay home.
Feathers, in my opinion are a twofold benefit.
One they are much more durable than vanes to lava rock excursions.... but I'm one of the rare ones chasing errant arrows I'm sure.... and I rove constantly while hunting, and rubber blunts sometimes skip when you can't see what you're actually shooting at at 50 or 60 yards... (yeah I know... I only shoot at 20 so why 50 or 60?... weren't you ever a kid?)
Feathers work well even if one is missing or really damaged... much better than vanes have for me. For me there is no reason to ever use a vane.
This half hour was brought to you by someone looking for an excuse to delay going to work this morning... :)
Much Aloha... :archer2:
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I am surprised none of you have mentioned using goose feathers.
(1) They are totally waterproof. (Ask the British and Vikings, they used them for centuries. It tends to rain a bit there.)
(2) They fly perfectly off the shelf.
(3) Did I mention they are totally waterproof?
That's all I use in the late season here in the Idaho Rockies, when the weather turns bad.
Killed a mule deer four days ago (and three thousand feet in elevation from the truck) with a perfect 29-yard shot with a goose-feathered, Douglas Fir shaft.
Kind of a bummer, now I have to buy a second deer tag so I can hunt the next two weeks. That's the downside to goose-fletched arrows.
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Why are goosefeathers, duck feathers, I'm assuming also waterproof, not then sold? Actually, it seems that most feathers are from turkey farms using "butterball" type turkeys, so... why not raise geese?
What kind of oil (assumptions again) does a goose excrete to waterproofing to the feathers?
Now you've got me on a mission.... Thanks... :help:
PS... here is what I found in my search...
http://www.animalcorner.co.uk/farm/ducks/duck_about.html
and one part of this I'm copying and pasting here.. from this article..
"A duck has water-proof feathers. There is a special gland called the 'Preen Gland' near the ducks tail. This tiny gland produces oil which the duck uses to coat its feathers.
The duck picks up the oil with its head and beak, and then smears it all over its body to make the outer feathers waterproof. Without this protective barrier, a ducks feathers would become water-logged and because they spend their whole lives around and in water, this water-proof barrier is extremely important. Beneath the water-proof coat are fluffy and soft feathers which keep the duck warm."
So what is this "preening oil" similar to? And why wouldn't my "mink oil" so to speak work just as well...??
Much Aloha,
Tom :archer2:
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Originally posted by Rik:
I am surprised none of you have mentioned using goose feathers.
(1) They are totally waterproof. (Ask the British and Vikings, they used them for centuries. It tends to rain a bit there.)
(2) They fly perfectly off the shelf.
(3) Did I mention they are totally waterproof?
That's all I use in the late season here in the Idaho Rockies, when the weather turns bad.
Killed a mule deer four days ago (and three thousand feet in elevation from the truck) with a perfect 29-yard shot with a goose-feathered, Douglas Fir shaft.
Kind of a bummer, now I have to buy a second deer tag so I can hunt the next two weeks. That's the downside to goose-fletched arrows.
I didn't see this last clearly, and dang mon, it's a dang shame... I suggest that you tone down your hunting for geese somewhat so that you don't have this unnecessary penalty going forward. All these unintended consequences... dang shame...
Other question... where DO you get your goose feathers?
Much Aloha.... :archer2:
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Goose feathers are hard to find now a days, but if you will look at your wild turkey feathers in the light you will see where the oil ends because the "sheen" isn't there any more. It is called the "oil line". Much higher on goose feathers, but goose feathers are not as wide as turkey. I carry one arrow that has two turkey feathers from the "Pointer" feathers. And one Flo green or Flo pink. Two turkey feathers will steer them straight when wet and the colored feather is so i can see where i hit. If you will hold the feather by the quill and pull backwards from the end to the point where it enters the bird you will pull off a little membrane that perfectly holds your "fletch tite" to glue on the shaft. Use only the pointer feathers and it makes no difference if left wing or right wing. Other than the fact that which side is the brightest to the eye. The underside is duller. I put the colored feather as my cock feather and the other two feathers with the brighter side up just because it looks better to my eye.
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Of course now I'll have to go Turkey hunting in order to find a Pointer... or make friends with a Bird Hunter... :clapper:
Much Aloha.... Tom :archer2:
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If your shooting off the shelf Feathers, Feathers , Feathers
Leave the vanes for the bows with training wheels