Trad Gang
Main Boards => Trad History/Collecting => Topic started by: raghorn on April 30, 2003, 12:48:00 PM
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Hope that many of you will stop by here. Lets discuss history of archery/bowhunting by means of our equipment.When was a broadhead made? By who? Arrows? Bows? Lets not get into which BHD is better, but possibly which was really stupid?
Magazines, and catalogs are also collectable and a great source of information from the past.
Traditional means the past, collectable means the past, so lets go there and see how we got to archery today.
I don't have all the answers, however I'm sure that any topic brought up here can get answered!
:thumbsup:
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Hello
I collect mostly Bear Arch items. Mostly 1963 stuff. I have put togather a entire box of razorheads from this period. the box, tray , instuctions, bleeder blades and tools. Took a couple of years to find the pieces. I like to try and date bear bows that can be a challenge. I have all the 1963 bow models but the type 1 kmag.
Dean
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I started to collect broadheads unintentionally. I was teaching bowhunter ed in 1981 when I realized I had about 50 diferent broadheads stached here & there. I put them in a small display case to use in classes. Students then statred to bring me more heads. I 1984 I heard about the American Broadhead Collectors Club and joined. The club had started in 1974 so I was already ten yrs behind. I now have about 1200 broadheads, homemade BHDs, fish points, blunts, field points. I have a few collectable bows and would like more but they tend to be pricy. Now some BHDs are going in that high dollar area also.
Here's a picture of a broadhead I had made for the ABCC commemorative in 1999. This is a tie-on type head. The shaft went up the middle and was tied on through the antler tips. There were only 33 of these heads made and they were handed out to the members who attended the annual meeting.
(http://www.users.qwest.net/~bronald1/image005.jpg)
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tonto;
I would assume that you used the 1960 version of the Bear Razorhead?
:)
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While it is nice to savor the past I sometimes wonder if Papa Bear is rolling in his grave at 1) the price some will pay for some of his old bows and then hang them on the wall. 2) Having seen most of the Bear videos and read all of the books I am pretty sure that Fred Bear treated all of his bows as tools for hunting. I have seen him throw them down, use as wading staffs, and walking sticks, yet some think that they should be hung on the wall and have incense burnt for them. Not! Hopefully they will be shot and used for their purpose hunting. Just my two cents.
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I just bought a 1951 Bear aluminum laminated
Grizzly about a month ago for a really,really
(did I say really) low price? And it's backed
with rawhide. Pus I was given a cardboard
wallhanger(for lack of a better word) that has
several pamphlets in like new condition to be a
charter member of the FBSC as well as order forms for the big game patches. Anybody know the worth
of these two items? Oh yeah-I also picked up
three Bitzenberger jigs with 3 rw,3 lw,and 3
straight clamps for $10.00 apiece.
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Carolinia Bob;
I'm glad that some of the collectors are buying up the mint bows. They need to be preserved for our heritage. However I like the old Bear and Wing bows. I just want them in shootable shape. That's what they are meant for ....right? I had a 67 Wing TBird that is one of the best shooting bows ever made. Problem- the grip was made for someone that can hold basketballs! I took the bandsaw and sander to that bow and made a dream shooter out of it.
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Ron.....I have a small broadhead collection. Nothing much, probably around fifty. Sometimes I just sit and look at them. Need to make a display case. This is cool. :thumbsup:
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I shoot some of my bows just refinished a 54 grizzly. Took the tips down real fine and she smokes the arrows. My wife shoots a 67 kodiak spec. My youngest a 63 cub soon a 64 grizzly. I shoot a remake of a 59 kodiak only until I can buy a original, I dont shoot many of my 63s because of the problems they had that year. I have a grumley I dont shoot and also a crystalite that I just hang. If they are a solid bow It gets shot.
Dean
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Charlie;
When you make that case do it so it will hold bunches of heads! Mine are 30"x36" for the large (276 heads)and 24"x24"(252 heads).Two cases done in a book style-hinge open.Here's a picture that is a few years old. It has expanded by a 1/3 since then!
(http://www.users.qwest.net/~bronald1/lwf1.jpg)
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Very nice Ron! We're gonna have to get together. I love that stuff.
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I got started a couple of years ago. I started looking to get a set of Bears. That took a little while, but not that long. Next I thought I would do the Ben Pearson's. I bought a bunch of arrows with Deadheads on it, and in a box there was this little Forged head, approx 3:1. I posted something on "The other place" and a guy by the handle of "Raghorn" replied and helped me identify it as a Ben Pearson 788 improved. Life hasn't been the same since. Now the Raghorn tries on a regular basis to keep me on the straight and narrow, but it is a tough job. I still don't have my Ben Pearson's and probably never will. The list has 48 heads listed for Ben, and several others are known that he sold, but aren't listed. Also the different color Switchblades are not listed seperatly, but I sure would like to get a set. (Just in case anyone has any of the different colored ones for trade)
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Hey Guys Jus kinda gettin in to trad stuff but startin ta gather alot of cool stuff to me. I helped my uncle move an dug aroun in som stuff he was gonna trash an got maybe a treasure maybe not. I'v got shippin invoices from Bear in Grayling in '66' how big was Bear then,Think it mite be Fred's handwritin. He had a archery shop in 66. I'v got bow registration card on som bow he sold. ya know what dealer cost on a Kodiak Mag was in 66 $38.97 how many ya want. :D a super mag 48 was $53.97. He got 5dz Razorheads fer $21.42. :D does anybody have a 66 or 67 Catalog like to check ser# to see what some are. Also found 5 or 6 bear strings in the packs an 2 bear fishin reel 90# strings in new cond. few broadheads and a fred bear record album. I cud get in to collectin this kinda stuff. He had 2 partners in the shop 1 still alive, gonna research this ferther :D see if he's still got som stuff. :D :D TJ :D :D
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I started out collecting Kodiak Magnums but have turned my attention to Broadheads. I collect only the glue on heads. Met a lot of very nice people, like The Last Kodiak, and have had the opportunity to pick up some really nice heads.
I'm pretty new to broadheads (been collecting for about a year and a half) and don't have alot to offer as traders but would love to hear from other collectors or fellow ABCC members.
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Hi Cris!!! :bigsmyl:
Good to see you here!
The Last Kodiak is still trying to butter me up!
Trapper John:
The Fred Bear Record I have seen on ebay a few times but I never watched one to the end to see what they have sold for. It sounds to me like you have a nice start of Bear collectable items. Bear archery was very big in the 60's, that is when they were in Graying Mi. I have one of the wonderful Bear Catalog The Grayling years CD. It covers 1948 -1978. 1965-1969 were the only years the the serial was good for dating. The 1st digit is the year,ie; 6=1966
I really doubt that invoice was Fred's writing as the company had several hundred employees then. But then again, mmmmm, could be!
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Thanks Ron i'll be pesterin ya now on figerin out the yrs on the bow i'v got. thats a cool BH wit yer sig. Is there any good books on archery fer the collectin part. :D :D TJ :D :D
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Raghorn,
Didn't get a chance to get a head into the ABCC one-of-a-kind contest but I'm working on a real killer of a design. When the prototypes are done, I'll send one to you and The Last Kodiak.
Chris :thumbsup:
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Tought you all might enjoy the photo I did for my christmass card last year. Thats a 1963 tamerlane with one ofe the nicest pieces of wood ive seen in a bow.
Dean
(http://images.photobox.co.uk/public/images/76/30/1887630.s.jpg)
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Trapper John;
Yes, there are some books on broadhead collecting, which are only available to ABCC members. There are also lots of info on the web about collecting archery items. Drop me an email and I'll fill you in as to the URLs.
:thumbsup:
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Tonto Cool x-mas card, My wife alwayz wants da santa an Whtaildeer thangs :D . I jus got that Fred Bear album when i help ma uncle move,It was in a bunch of junk an i smelled treasure :D . Raghorn i'm interested in the ABCC. I jus got a aluminum recurve, has a 2 pc riser with a alen bolt at each end of the limbs. got iddy bitty noc ends that bend at a 45 degree ang. only writin is on da limbs 1 says 50#@28"29"max other says LJ 3-1 2649 its ole the guy said he had it fer 50 yrs an he's 65. i'm a thinkin the 49 is tha year. gonna try ta get toad to post a pic fer me on here. so ya'll can give me a id. :D :D TJ :D :D
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I have a friend that knows an older gentleman that used to own a sporting goods store. We went over there today and when he opened his garaged door there was a 3'X 5' Bear Archery Sign hanging on the back wall. Went into the basement and he showed us box after box of broadheads still in the box and wrapped also had about 20 dozen arrow with braodheads still in the original box with a cellophane cover. Assorted quivers and armguards and gloves. Also had Pfluger rods and reels and Creek chub baits in the box.
\\ I tried to buy some thing s and he just laughed in an eerie kind of way. No sale. No way. Told me he had some bows and strings in the attic that never have been strung but we never made it that far. He had to go to a Knights of Columbus Meeting. I will be going back tomorrow!
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Tonto;
That is a really neat picture. Be on your guard, soon as Last Kodiak sees that knife set he'll be your friend for life. Or at least try to trade you some mushrooms for it!
Skyhook;
you have found archery's version of the LOst Dutchman? Keep after the guy.Oh..... let us know will ya?
Trapper John:
Send me the photo and I can post it.
:thumbsup:
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Here's another picture of the "Good Head"
The head on the left wired on through holes in the shaft. This is how I originally designed it. The middle head has a brass tube ferrule. The head on the right has a screw-in ferrule.
(http://www.users.qwest.net/~bronald1/good_heads_3_versions.jpg)
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galitsadi :
That Grizzly is a nice bow to have. As far as the pamphlets, in my opinon they are probably not worth too much. Not everthing made by Bear is collctable. However there maybe a serious Bear collctor out there that may pick them up. The best way to find out is put them in the classifieds or on ebay.
THat is a real, real, good price on the Bitz fletchers. I found out that my older Bitzs wouldn't let me use the Bohning or Mercury nock. The large index fin would not go into the receiver. I took the receiver out and took a 1/2" drill to the hole in the base. Then relaced the receiver. :thumbsup:
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Here is a picture of my Bear broadhead stuff.
56,59,60,64 heads super razor and stainless super razor. a four blade polar, A satalite wich was in bear packaging, some bears packaged for Brave archery,a box of heads with blade package and instructions, a sharpener in the pack, And both types of bleeder packs. Also 4 types of bleeder blades.
Dean (http://images.photobox.co.uk/public/images/97/73/2999773.s.jpg)
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Kodmag1
I have been lusting after a Roper's Indian, as in your avatar, for some time. I haven't given up hope of taking one in fair trade, but I don't have anything of comparable scarcity or desireability to lure anyone in yet. From it's odd design and material it's not a head that I would ever use, but it just exemplifies a collectable broadhead to me.
Now if I could get someone interested in a nice Barber quarter or Morgan dollar in trade . . .
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Stumpkiller,
The Roper's is the pride of my collection. I've got plenty of other rare heads but it really stands out in a collection. If you have a list of heads for trade, e-mail them to me and we'll see what we can work out.
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Howdy collectors!!
Here´s a pic from my broadhead collection,I hope it will work,the quality of the pic isn´'t that good but ..
charly
;) (http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-12/520235/broadheadcollection0009.JPG)
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Hi Charly;
Haven't heard from you in awhile.
Your collection is looking really nice!
:bigsmyl:
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I collect old recurves. I have Bears, Wings, Pearsons, Widows, Staghorns, Howatts, Howards, Groves, & 1 Hit & 1 SABO
I like the '60s bows the best. I feel that that was the best period of bows
I have 64 in all right now.
I have an ultra mint '63 Kodiak Dogleg that TONTO would die for. I also have a '63 Kodiak Magum Type I. I shot it. You gessed it, exploded. I had someone put it back together but you can tell it is not right. I am pretty sure that the '63 Kodiak Magnums Types I & II are the only ones you have to worry about. The 60" Kodiak is a great shooter.
I just picked up a '64 Kodiak 55#. It is one that I have been chasing for years, and finally nailed down. I am waiting to get it in now. Many collectors feel that it is the best shooting hunting bow that Bear ever made.
I hunt with a '83 Jack Howard Gamemaster Jet CAMO model 56# and shoot 3-D with a 2000 Jack Howard Jet at 57# Best shooting bows I have ever found. At least in my opinion.
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Raghorn, what would be a feasible way to find out the manufacturers of broadheads that were in Wisconsin over the years. I just started collecting on a VERY limited basis. I want to collect a representative head (OK more than one if possible) from each Wisconsin manufacturer. I have put together a list and am keeping my eyes open on ebay, but there has to be a better way. First, how do I find out who was a broadhead mfr in Wisconsin. Next, is there any other forums, like here, where I can actually pursue these heads. I really don't like e-bay.
Chuck
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Hi Chuck;
You can't always believe the sellers on ebay. There is a Bear Takedown Mag handle on ebay now that the seller claims was built in 1953.
The best avenue is to join the American Broadhead Collectors Club. A large portion of the members are in Wis. I am formerly from Wis. The master list from the club shows the manufacturer,but may not show where it was manufactured. There are many books available through the club that can help with that research. What you are looking for is the main reason a person collects.....it's the chase!
Ron :wavey:
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Thanks for the steering. Forgot all about that post. I have been bouncing between the LW and TG and sometimes talk a lot. Yeah, I need to slow down a bit too, but when I get involved in something, I tend to jump in with both feet. This is very addicting. I am having a great time seeing all the neat heads. I want one of nearly half of them I see, but ...so far...know better.
I think collecting Wisconsin heads is a noble quest. Hell, at least I'm not collecting Bear bows. I'd be broke already.
Chuck
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Chuck,
How you coming on your WI list? I was thumbing through my "Rarity" Guide by Wade, and he gives the location of Mfg for several of the heads, many from WI. If you haven't been there yet, I can look a little harder and make you a list of what it shows. Good luck on finding an Aldo Leapold.
Ken
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I can see my next major purchase is gonna have to be one of those guides. I have some information and about twenty names of manufacturers. I have been told that some of these heads are quite rare, so I guess I won't be getting a complete collection, but I am having fun so far. I have found and purchased oh, about a half doxen heads so far. I missed out on one on e bay a while back because I miscopied the date it ended into mu notebook. I didn't even bid on it and it only went for less than 10 dollars. Oh well, next time. Does that Wade Philips guide also show pictures of these heads ? I would certainly like to see what they look like.
Chuck
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Howdy All, :wavey:
Thanx Ron fur a great topic. That is a great lookin' BH.
I have been a serious trad shooter/collector for about 5 years and have shot all kinds of bows from the time I was a kid in 4-H. I have around 100 bows at last count, a lot of junk but also a few gems. I'm working on a list of the nicer stuff. I was blessed to fly my son and I out to Denton last year where it all started. :rolleyes: Broadhead collecting that is. I got to meet Wade Phillips and buy copy #99 of his book. I also bought a guys trade stock for a starter collection. I have had "point lust" sence then. My collection is small but I'm proud of it. The nicest point I got is a 1928 Roy Case Kiska on a footed shaft. :D
I got a Q. for you broadhead collectors. I recently got 5 arrows with some 1959 Arrowmate heads on them, the points have never been sharpened, no rust and look like they were never shot. I want to take the heads off the shaft without damaging either. I have used mild heat on the blade with no luck, didn't want to heat the ferrule to much. I have no idea what was used for glue. I thought about just refletching the shafts and hunting with them but the heads are not on the shafts true and they really don't seem to be a sturdy head with the plastic ferrule. How would you guys get the heads off, or should I just cut the shafts long enough for display?
Thanx,
Michael aka broadsword
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Originally posted by Michael Tracy:
Howdy All, :wavey:
Thanx Ron fur a great topic. That is a great lookin' BH.
I have been a serious trad shooter/collector for about 5 years and have shot all kinds of bows from the time I was a kid in 4-H. I have around 100 bows at last count, a lot of junk but also a few gems. I'm working on a list of the nicer stuff. I was blessed to fly my son and I out to Denton last year where it all started. :rolleyes: Broadhead collecting that is. I got to meet Wade Phillips and buy copy #99 of his book. I also bought a guys trade stock for a starter collection. I have had "point lust" sence then. My collection is small but I'm proud of it. The nicest point I got is a 1928 Roy Case Kiska on a footed shaft. :D
I got a Q. for you broadhead collectors. I recently got 5 arrows with some 1959 Arrowmate heads on them, the points have never been sharpened, no rust and look like they were never shot. I want to take the heads off the shaft without damaging either. I have used mild heat on the blade with no luck, didn't want to heat the ferrule to much. I have no idea what was used for glue. I thought about just refletching the shafts and hunting with them but the heads are not on the shafts true and they really don't seem to be a sturdy head with the plastic ferrule. How would you guys get the heads off, or should I just cut the shafts long enough for display?
Thanx,
Michael aka broadsword
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Michael:
The Arrowmate cannot be heated to remove them because of the nylon ferrule. I am assuming the shafts are wood?
Try gripping the blade in a vise and using a pair of pliers twist the wood shaft. Easy does it as you don't want to deform the head. Sometimes they will let loose. If not then all you can do is cut the shaft.
You could also cut the shaft flush with the back of the ferrule and drill the wood out a bit with out getting into the ferrule and use a small pick(?) to dig out remaining wood.
Have you joined the ABCC?
:wavey:
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Howdy, :wavey:
Thanx Ron for the tips on how to get those broadheads off the shafts. Yep they are wood.
I have not yet joined the ABCC but I intend to.
Maybe a silly Q but why did David quote my reply?
Michael aka broadsword
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I'm confused also as to why Dave did that. But I bet he will come back with a really great story.
:confused:
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Hi guys. Well I finally acquired a copy of Wade Philip's book. I had no clue that there were so many heads aroung. I see that, in spite of how thorough that book is, there are several I saw on ebay recently that aren't even in that book...Maybe too recent, I don't know.
I have maybe eight Wisconsin manufacturers covered now (at least one head per mfr).. I see and hear of some of you with a thousand or more heads and I can't hardly believe it. Makes me feel like I have done nothing so far. I can see by the book that I won't be getting one example from each mfr as at least one, and probably several are extremely rare. I was hoping to find a LaHa head as I hunted with him and Roy Case in the late 70's. That won't happen I guess, but I HAVE gotten several Case heads. Wow, having that Kiska is pretty cool. I can't believe some of the prices some people are willing to pay for a broadhead...amazing.
I still need a representative head from numerous mfr's. Anybody got any of the following ?
Wm Ayers, Milwaukee
Harold Franks, Milwaukee
Hillcraft, Wauwautosa
Kincannon, Milwaukee
Kurz, Stockholm (WI)
lead head, Milwaukee
Hovarter, ??? WI
H E Metzler, Racine
stanley Shaeffer, Racine
Mowoc Co., Oconomowoc
??? Yell if you have an example head you wish to sell. Maybe I can afford to "acquire" a few of these.
Chuck
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Dave, was going to reply to that fellow who was trying to get a Arrowmate off of a shaft, when my wife saundered in with a come hither look in her eye and nothing on. I got so excited (don't happen that often) that I hit the enter key.
Anyway that's my story and I'm stick'n to it.
If Ron's method of smashing them in a vice hasn't worked you might try using your wife's hair dryer (assuming you don't have one of your own, like Ron.) Set that rascal on high heat and warm up the head. The heat should persuade the old glue into giving up the fight. Wrap a towel around the head and twist like Chubby Checkers. The little tyke should pop off. The hair dryer does not get hot enough enough to melt those wonderful plastic ferrules. What ever you do do not use any kind of solvent on them. I did that once several years ago and it dissolved the plastic ferrules. Anybody need 12 arrowmate blades?
I've watched this site ever since Ron started it. He has done a great job. For you who have never had the pleasure of meeting Ron in person consider yourselfs lucky! Naw really he's a great guy and a wealth of knowledge. He's been collecting broadheads for about 25 years.
If any of you are serious about collecting broadheads you owe it to youself to join the American Broadhead Collector Club. There are alot of fellows in the club who will bend over backwards in helping you.
Be Safe, Dave
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Chuck,
Wade has a very well researched book. He has thousands of hours into it. However he only covered heads to 1971 I believe, and not even all prior to that date are in the book. What I'm getting at is that there are about 2500 heads identified on the ABCC master list. This does not include fish points of which there is another list of hundreds. Field points and blunts- oodles of them and no record whatsoever. I have been collecting since 1981 and have about 850 heads. I'm lazier than some other collectors.
Of the list of heads you want only two of them are fairly common. The rest are going to be hard to get or expensive.
:wavey:
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well, that figures. Since I am not very rich, I guess I'd better pick another state to adopt or I will have a complete collection of about ten heads. Actually, your statement helps, cause there have been several pretty neat heads available that I did not want to spend the money on, but rather save it for a "Wisconsin" head.
Maybe I should just expand, not worry about it, and collect heads I think are neat and that I like to look at.
Anyway. this is very addicting....and fun !
Chuck
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Howdy all, :scared: The "Pizza cutter" comes to mind. Another head (not in his book) I thought would be interesting to look at is a bomb\\morter style head that shoots spikes\\darts. :confused: How the heck does that work? I have only seen them on e-bay. Of my collection I would have to give the "57" Mohawk the award for worst design followed by the Serpentine. I believe the best is a sturdy 3 to 1 straight two blade. Straight for ease of sharpening. The business end of my big game hunting arrows are now tiped with Stos. Being a romantic, my first buck was taken with an old Bear razorhead. It was scary sharp and did the job just fine. The story of that harvest has kind of a sad ending, and is another story.
Sorry to go on and on but I sure love broadhead collecting and trad. archery. :thumbsup:
Michael aka broadsword
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Michael;
There are many other heads that were a poorer preformer than the Pizza cutter. As far as the Mohawk with the scissor action blades it is better than many of the mechanical heads available today. However if people had been happy with just one broadhead design than we wouldn't have anything to collect!
By the way.....STOS stands for:
Stupid Thing Oughta Stick or:
Slicker Than Owl S&*%
A great head as is but would be a top runner if it were a 4 blade.
Nothing wrong with the Bear head, I just shot my Bull elk this past season with a 1960 Bear.
The "bomb/morter" heads,hmmmm, I'll have get pictures of them and do a post on here about them.
By the way, Dave is the Number One Guy with the ABCC.
:wavey: