Post by: Wade Phillips on March 01, 2009, 01:11:00 PM
1955 - 60”, 64”,……. 68”,….… – Gray glass back, brown glass belly, decal logos
1956 - 60”, 64”,……. 68”,.…… – Gray glass back, brown glass belly, silk screen logos
1957 - 62”, 64”, 66, 68”, 70” – Tan glass, 2-color tombstone sight window
1958 - 62”, 64”, 66, 68”, 70” – Tan glass, rosewood sight window
1959 - 62”, 64”, 66, 68”, 70” – Gray glass back, white glass belly, flared riser inset over belly glass
1960 - 62”, 64”, 66, 68”, 70” – Gray glass back, white glass belly, crescent riser inset under belly glass
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/KS-5560A.jpg)
Bear introduced the Kodiak Special in 1955. The identical bow was produced in 1956. Because Bear changed from water transfer decals to silk screens at some point from 1955-56, collectors use the cosmetic features, decals vs silk screens, to satisfy our anal retentive need to define these two identical bows into two separate years.
Other cosmetic features such coins, serial numbers, overlays, underlays, etc are unreliable in dating Kodiak Specials. These cosmetic features should be avoided in dating Kodiak Specials.
Countless legitimate variations of the 1955-1960 Kodiak Special are in existence, e.g., in 1959 and 1960 numerous laminated wood combinations were used in the risers. Also many experimental Kodiak Specials were produced as well as many bows that transitioned features from one year to the next. Note: some of these lengths were not advertised, but were actually produced.
The Kodiak Special DeLuxe
1960 - 62”, 64”, 66, 68”, 70” – Clear glass over Zebrawood veneer laminations, flared riser inset under glass
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/KSD-1.jpg)
The Kodiak Special DeLuxe was offered only in 1960. Like the 1959 and 1960 Kodiak Specials, numerous laminated wood combinations were used in the risers.
Post by: Wade Phillips on March 01, 2009, 01:11:00 PM
1961 – 63”, 66”, 69” – Soft Green glass, Zebrawood Riser
1962 – 63”, 66”, 69” – Soft Green glass, Brazilian Rosewood Riser
1963 – 63”, 66”, 69” – White glass, Rosewood Caps, Bubinga Riser, Shelf in front of Caps
1964 – 63”, 66”, 69” – White glass, Rosewood Caps, Bengal Wood Riser, Rounded Sight Window Corner
1965 – ……. 66”, 69” – White glass, Brazilian Rosewood Caps, Brazilian Bubinga Riser, Scalloped Sight Window Corner
1966 – ……. 66”, 69” – White glass, Golden Rosewood Riser, Brazilian Rosewood Strip along belly
1967 – ……. 66”, 69” – White glass, Zebrawood Riser, Angled Black Phenolic Inset
66" bows are shown below...
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/KS61-67C.jpg)
Countless legitimate variations of the 1961-1967 Kodiak Special are in existence, e.g., in …in 1966, handle sizes were offered in small, standard, large, in both regular or pistol grip, making a total of 6 handle variations.
Post by: Wade Phillips on March 01, 2009, 01:13:00 PM
As of 2-22-2010 we have over 50 recorded 1959 Kodiak Specials and some trends are beginning to show up...
Updated 10-19-2016
1959 62", 42# - VA040 - underlays - Bjorn
1959 62", 59# - VA105 - underlays - BowDoc to Tom to Bill
1959 62", 27# - VA161R - Tom
1959 62", 46# - VA 228 - underlays - Chuck
1959 62", 50# - Display - underlays - Wade
1959 62", 50# - VA467L - no underlays - Wade
1959 62", 50# - VA558L - no underlays - Trap
1959 62", 48# - VA611L - no underlays - Hoof
1959 62", 55# - VA612L - no underlays - Wade
1959 62", 40-45# - 17HX12 - no underlays - Chuck
1959 64", 52# - WA139 - underlays - Wade
1959 64", 32# - WA728 - underlays - Mike
1959 64", 52# - WA749 - underlays - BowDoc
1959 64", 50# - WB083 - underlays - LH - Norm
1959 64", 45# - WB448 - underlays - Bob (ser # mismarked during refinish)
1959 64", 48# - WB504 - underlays - Trap
1959 64", 28# - WB934 – no underlays - Bill
1959 64", 45# - WB998 - no underlays - minnesota_hunter
1959 64", 45# - WC020 - underlays - Chuck
1959 64", 53# - WC061 - no underlays - Jeremy
1959 64", 34# - WC191 - jr1959
1959 64", 47# - WC365L - no underlays – Wade
1959 64", 48# - WC613L - no underlays - warpedarrow
1959 64", 40# - WC839 - no underlays - Auction 8-30-09
1959 64", 50# - WD438 - no underlays - Hoof
1959 64", 50# - ?????? - no underlays – Wade
1959 64", 52# - WL197 - no underlays - Bjorn
1959 64", 50# - WL570 - no underlays - Jack Shanks
1959 64", 41# - 30HX1R - no underlays - Wade sold
1959 66", 42# - XA411 - underlays - ****
1959 66", 55# - XA523 - underlays - Hoof
1959 66", 40# - XA591 - no underlays - Auction 8-22-2009
1959 66", 28# - XA844 - underlays - Wade
1959 66", 43# - XA969 - underlay - Bjorn
1959 66", 37# - XB05 - underlays - Dennis
1959 66", 40# - XB62 - Auction 2-8-2010
1959 66", 42# - XB084 - underlays - Auction
1959 66", 42# - XB348 - underlays - Auction 2-14-2010
1959 66", 40# - XB626 - Auction 8-30-2009
1959 66", 42# - XC412 - no underlays - Chris
1959 66", 44# - XD049 - no underlays - Scott
1959 66", 35# - XE879 - no underlays - Auction
1959 66", 48# - XD119 - no overlays - Trap
1959 66", 49# - XD178 - no underlays - Bjorn
1959 66", 40# - XE403L - no underlays - seboomook
1959 66", 49# - XE593L - no underlays - warpedarrow
1959 66", 47# - XE685 – no underlays - Dennis
1959 66", 49# - XE683 - no underlays - Jack Shanks
1959 66", 50# - XE697 - no underlays - ****
1959 66", 40# - XE904 - no underlays - Jack
1959 66", 42# - XF074 - no underlays - minnesota_hunter
1959 66", 40# - XF086 - no underlays - Larry M
1959 66", 39# - XF090 – no underlays - Chuck
1959 66", 40# - XF790 - Auction 2-13-2010
1959 66", 40# - XF877R - no underlays - Chuck
1959 68", 50# - YA097 - underlays - Hobow
1959 68", 37# - YA309 - underlays - warpedarrow
1959 68", 45#@29" - YA349 - underlays - Dennis
1959 68", 45# - YA367 - underlays - Wade
1959 68", 42# - YA419 - underlays - Shandor
1959 68", 39# - YA456 - underlays - 2-26-2008 Auction
1959 68”, 32# - YB499A - no underlays – Chuck
1959 68", 55# - YA540 - Auction 2-8-2010
1959 68", 44# - YA869 - no underlays - warpedarrow
1959 68", 50#@30" - YB364L - no underlays - Lon
1959 68", 47# - YB626L - no underlays - Jeff
1959 68", 38# - YB965 - no underlays - Wade
1959 68", 39# - YC039 - no underlays - Trap
1959 68", 55# - 9YX29 - no underlays - Bjorn
1959 68", 58# - 19RX33 - no underlays - MarkG
1959 70", 40#@29 ZA067 - underlays - Minnesota hunter
1959 70", 40# - ZA110 - underlays - Chuck
1959 70", 47# - ZA488 - no underlays - Auction
1959 70", 38# - ?????? - underlays removed - Wade
1959 70", 50# - 5VX26 - no underlays - Trap
On 1959 Kodiak Specials, factory underlays are a layer of black marcata that was added to the belly side of the last 4" of the limb tips of some bows as shown below. The term, "underlays", is collector jargon to describe this cosmetic feature in a single word. The purpose of this list is to determine the order and frequency of this cosmetic feature.
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/00UNDER.jpg)
Post by: Wade Phillips on March 01, 2009, 01:14:00 PM
1960 Kodiak Special, Middle 5 Bows
1959 Kodiak Specials, Bottom 5 Bows
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/1960KSD1.jpg)
Below
1958 Kodiak Specials, Top 5 Bows, 70", 68", 66", 64", 62"
1957 Kodiak Specials, Bottom 6 Bows, 70", 68", 66", 64", 62", 62” (bottom 62" has unusual sight window)
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/57-58KS.jpg)
Below
1956 Kodiak Specials, Top 3 Bows, 68", 64", 60"
1955 Kodiak Specials, Bottom 5 Bows, 68", 68", 64", 64", 60" (duplicate lengths, have unusual sight windows)
Note different limb and riser shape of 60” bows…
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/KS55-56.jpg)
Will get more photographs loaded later...
Post by: Bjorn on March 01, 2009, 02:08:00 PM
Post by: Wade Phillips on March 01, 2009, 02:14:00 PM
Post by: Bjorn on March 01, 2009, 03:08:00 PM
1959 KS 62" 42# VA040 underlay
1959 KS 64" 52# WL197
1959 KS 66" 43# XA969 underlay
1959 KS 66" 49# XD178
1959 KS 68" 55# 9YX29
Post by: Rick Enos on March 01, 2009, 03:14:00 PM
Post by: Wade Phillips on March 01, 2009, 04:12:00 PM
I added them to the list which is shown on the third post from the top.
We now have 34 1959 KS on the list... it is getting more interesting. Would like to see at least 50 before we start to analyze the data.
Post by: cacciatore on March 01, 2009, 04:12:00 PM
Post by: Wade Phillips on March 01, 2009, 04:19:00 PM
Frankly any coin, could have been put in any bow, at any time, by any one, any where, in the world.
According to the "Coin Experts", 1959 is supposed to be copper and 1960 is supposed to be aluminum.
I have owned more 1960 Kodiaks with copper coins then aluminum.
I have owned more 1960 Kodiak Specials with aluminum coins rather then copper.
I have owned more 1960 Kodiak Special DeLuxes with Copper rather then aluminum.
If I owned your KSD, I would leave it just like it is provided that the coin has a flat surface. The coin is a little too small in the photograph to see the surface clearly.
Post by: KYArcher on March 01, 2009, 04:22:00 PM
59 KS 66" 44# XD049 no underlays
....Scott
Post by: Rick Enos on March 01, 2009, 04:24:00 PM
Post by: Wade Phillips on March 01, 2009, 04:56:00 PM
Rick - Cosmetic features such as coins are not reliable methods for dating bows.
Your Zebrawood KS is a 1961. The 66" is the most common length of KS for that year. Fairly common bow. The 70" KSD is far less common and worth more as a collectible.
Post by: TimZeigler on March 02, 2009, 03:01:00 PM
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c20/992life/Bear%20Bows/IMG_0449.jpg)
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c20/992life/Bear%20Bows/IMG_0448.jpg)
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c20/992life/Bear%20Bows/KodiakSpecial5.jpg)
This water transfer was on it when I got it.
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c20/992life/Bear%20Bows/IMG_0450.jpg)
Post by: Wade Phillips on March 02, 2009, 08:47:00 PM
Post by: TimZeigler on March 02, 2009, 09:24:00 PM
Post by: d. ward on March 03, 2009, 07:36:00 AM
Wade are we posting all the year KS in this post ? the reason I ask is I have to do some book work today which sucks.But I do have several ledgers I've recorded every bow I've worked on or let me say 90% of them.I would be happy to post up all the year Specials I have recorded ???? bd
Post by: Wade Phillips on March 03, 2009, 08:22:00 AM
Thought I might go back through the list and ask each owner to tell us if the bows are original or restored. May held understand some of the data a little better when we begin to analyze it.
Post by: JavelinaHink on March 03, 2009, 08:31:00 AM
Post by: TimZeigler on March 03, 2009, 09:36:00 AM
This is turning out to be a great thread. Something like this might be done on a regular basis, where all the info can be combined for specific models. I've thought about going back thru all the post in this forum and documenting all the information on discussed models.
Post by: d. ward on March 04, 2009, 06:22:00 AM
Post by: d. ward on March 04, 2009, 06:24:00 AM
Post by: d. ward on March 04, 2009, 08:20:00 AM
Post by: d. ward on March 04, 2009, 08:22:00 AM
Post by: d. ward on March 04, 2009, 08:24:00 AM
Post by: Wade Phillips on March 04, 2009, 10:46:00 AM
Guess just an explanation and photograph would be enough for this thread,
Just looked at a few bows with these broken fiber bows under some magnification...
Doc - As you say, they appear to be broken fibers near the surface. Apparently there is a mini explosion when the fiber and resin break apart that separates/expands the materials and creates a partial void, which appears to the untrained eye as a bubble on the surface.
Rather than use past phrases like “those annoying little eye sores” or “bubbled finish”, we should standardize on a descriptive name for this broken fiber phenomenon.
Post by: d. ward on March 04, 2009, 11:03:00 AM
Post by: Jeremy on March 04, 2009, 11:58:00 AM
I was thinking they were caused by the glass fibers popping up or kinking while under compression on the form. On the opposite side of the curve I've seen what looks like the glass fibers snapping and pulling away from each other while under tension on the form. Opposite sides of the limb, opposite effects, but similar cause.
Either way, they were there when the bow was made and don't cause any harm that I can see other than cosmetic.
Post by: d. ward on March 05, 2009, 07:22:00 AM
Post by: d. ward on March 05, 2009, 09:23:00 AM
Post by: Wade Phillips on March 05, 2009, 02:52:00 PM
We now have 36 recorded 1959 Kodiak Specials... Things seem to have slowed down a lot so we might as well take a look at the data we have compiled even though some of our sample length is small.
First I'd like to ask Trap if he feels that his original question was answered with the data... It was something to the effect, are the 59 specials with underlays the earlier bows or the later bows....
1959 62", 42# - VA040 - underlays - Bjorn
1959 62", 59# - VA105 - underlays - BowDoc
1959 62", 46# - VA 228 - no underlays - Chuck
1959 62", 50# - VA467L - no underlays - Wade
1959 62", 50# - VA558L - no underlays - Trap
1959 62", 55# - VA612L - no underlays - Wade
1959 62", 40-45# - 17HX12 - no underlays - Chuck
1959 64", 52# - WA139 - underlays - Wade
1959 64", 52# - WA749 - underlays - BowDoc
1959 64", 48# - WB504 - underlays - Trap
1959 64", 28# - WB934 – no underlays - Bill (original)
1959 64", 45# - WC020 - underlays - Chuck
1959 64", 53# - WC061 - no underlays - Jeremy
1959 64", 47# - WC365L - no underlays – Wade
1959 64", 50# - WC554L - auction
1959 64", 50# - ?????? - no underlays – Wade
1959 64", 52# - WL197 - no underlays - Bjorn
1959 66", 28# - XA844 - underlays - Wade
1959 66", 43# - XA969 - underlay - Bjorn
1959 66", 37# - XB05 - underlays - Dennis
1959 66", 42# - XC 412 - no underlays - Chris
1959 66", 44# - XD049 - no underlays - Scott
1959 66", 49# - XD178 - no underlays - Bjorn
1959 66", 40# - XE403L - no underlays - seboomook
1959 66", 47# - XE685 – no underlays Dennis
1959 66", 39# - XF090 – no underlays - Chuck
1959 66", 40# - XF877R - no underlays - Chuck
1959 68", 45#@29" - YA349 - underlays - Dennis
1959 68", 45# - YA367 - underlays - Wade
1959 68", 39# - YA456 - underlays - 2-26-08 Auction
1959 68”, 32# - YB499A - no underlays – Chuck
1959 68", 47# - YB626L - no underlays - Jeff
1959 68", 38# - YB965 - no underlays - Wade
1959 68", 55# - 9YX29 - no underlays - Bjorn
1959 70", 40# - ZA110 - underlays - Chuck
1959 70", 38# - ?????? - underlays removed - Wade
On 1959 Kodiak Specials, factory underlays are a layer of black marcata that was added to the belly side of the last 4" of the limb tips of some bows as shown below. The term, "underlays", is collector jargon to describe this cosmetic feature in a single word. The purpose of this list is to determine the order and frequency of this cosmetic feature.
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/00UNDER.jpg)
Post by: TRAP on March 05, 2009, 03:09:00 PM
I would have assumed that the 62" was less common than any other length, but it appears the 70" bow has at least been less available to the few collectors represented here.
Of course, the larger group of 62" bows could just mean they were recognized as great shooters and therefore hoarded by the collectors here. They are sweet.
Neat data set, way to go Wade
Trap
Post by: Wade Phillips on March 05, 2009, 06:56:00 PM
I have always thought from the number and lengths of 59 KS that I have seen over the years, that the 70" was the rarest, 62" was second rarest and that the 66" was the most common. The data seems to support my thoughts that were based on the I've bows seen ...
That is if you use the serial numbers as opposed to the total number of each length that we have recorded...
Note the highest 62" serial number is VA612.. (disregarding Chuck no letter #)
The 64" goes WA, WB, WC,...
The 66" goes XA, XB, XC, XD, XE, XF
The 68" goes YA, YB...
Yes, I believe this group of collectors is hording the 62" length.
It's nice to have some real data to use for comparisons rather than simply making statements based on recollections.
Thanks to everyone who contributed.
Any other observations about the data???
I still believe our sample size is way too small especially given that only two 70" bows are recorded.
Post by: sticknstring+ on March 08, 2009, 04:08:00 PM
Been gone for a few days and missed alot of good stuff.
I dont have a 59 for the list(Yet!), but here's the one's I do have....
two 61's, a 63 and a 66.
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr72/gbsticknstring/IMG_8104.jpg)
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr72/gbsticknstring/IMG_8103.jpg)
Post by: Wade Phillips on March 09, 2009, 02:26:00 AM
Wonder how many of the "Dating Bear Bows by Coin Experts" have seen a 1961 Kodiak Special with NO COIN... Not sure how they date that 1961 bow...
We haven't started a list for 1961-1967 Kodiak Specials yet... but when we do, your 1963 will be at the top of the list for GRAIN & LOOKS !!!
Thanks so much for sharing a very professional photograph of some very "Special" Kodiak Specials.
Post by: d. ward on March 13, 2009, 09:46:00 AM
Post by: Wade Phillips on March 13, 2009, 09:51:00 AM
Post by: d. ward on March 13, 2009, 10:00:00 AM
Post by: seboomook on March 13, 2009, 11:54:00 AM
my '58 is YG895 62" @ 49#
Post by: Wade Phillips on March 13, 2009, 09:57:00 PM
Kodiak Specials
1958 62", 44# - YC815
1958 64", 55# - YC124
1958 66", 49# - YC345
1958 68", 45# - YC753
1958 70", 54# - YE921
I believe I still have one more 62", 55# but can not find it right now as it was never in the display, just in with the extras. If I find it, will let you know.
It is obvious the 1958 KS letter sequence order is much different than the more straight forward sequence used in 1959.
I have never attempted to track the 1958 KS numbering to be able to give you an order that could be followed 90%+ of the time like the 1959 KS.
If anyone wants to post their 1958 Kodiak Special Serial numbers, I will add them to this list by editing the post so we can try to make sense of them...
Post by: Bowbent on March 13, 2009, 11:18:00 PM
Post by: TRAP on March 14, 2009, 12:02:00 AM
Yet :bigsmyl:
Trap
Post by: Wade Phillips on March 14, 2009, 12:42:00 AM
Also want to mention your photographs are a little oversize for what TradGang permits. 640 is the max width, unless it has changed recently. I'd hate to see one of the moderators remove your post.
OK Trap - I mentioned in my post that I can not find a 62", 55# right now that has been floating around here for quite a while... and a couple of hours later, you suddenly post that you want one...
Or are you just looking for any 1958?
Tonight in the boneyard (the garage racks of extra bows) I did find a couple of 66" 1957 KS, 34# & 46# both looks straight.
As I am sure you know the 1957 and 1958 were built on the same form, the difference being the laminations in the riser. Blindfolded I'm not sure anyone would know the difference shooting bows from the two different years.
If you are interested in either or both, you know I will cheat you right... oops, I meant, treat you right...
Post by: alaskabowhunter on March 14, 2009, 12:51:00 AM
1958 62", 47# - YG315
1958 64", 33#@26" - YE390
1958 66", 57# - YF995
1958 68", 58# - YE421
1958 70", player to be named at a later date....
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/biggriz61/minnesota080.jpg)
Post by: Wade Phillips on March 14, 2009, 01:35:00 AM
Your concept might be better stated as...
"Draft pick to be selected in later round"
Hey, it looks like you are in need of some replacement 1958 KS strike plates too. Trap is sending me a sample for some bows. Will let you know how they look. Trap - the pressure is on you now...
Post by: TRAP on March 14, 2009, 01:38:00 AM
The 57 and 58 KSs are on the list of things to watch down the road but I have some other gaps to fill first.
Thanks for the offer though, Trap
Post by: Wade Phillips on March 14, 2009, 01:46:00 AM
What other gaps are you looking to fill first?
Personally, I hope Chuck puts that 64" Rosewood Sight Window up for his next monthly give away, and that I win it!
Post by: TRAP on March 14, 2009, 02:39:00 AM
I've only collected '54 through '62 Kodiaks. I've had several 62" Grizzlies but have sold most of them off or traded them to add Kodiaks.
I considered the static Kodiaks and have also considered the 63 through 66 Kodiaks.
The 59 and 60 Kodiak Specials are attractive.
I may just try to add "special" bows that fit in with the group of bows I currently have.
I'm actually quite satisfied with the bows I have which is more than I can shoot. I'm starting to appreciate the other Bear Archery collectibles such as back quivers, arrows, photographs etc.
If Chuck puts the 64" RW up for a give away, I hope you win it. You just never know. Is that a gap you are trying to fill?
About those plates, I'm trying to locate some leather that thin. . I'll find it. Just takes time.
Sorry for the Hijack, you asked so I just kinda rambled.
Trap
Post by: Wade Phillips on March 14, 2009, 09:32:00 AM
Just combined Chuck's 1958 KS Serial numbers in with the ones I posted earlier. You can see the scrambled mess by lengths, when compared to the order by length for most 1959 KS...
I'm sure if more add more to this now very short list, the order will become even more scrambled...
Kodiak Specials
1958 62", 44# - YC815 – Wade
1958 62", 47# - YG315 – Chuck
1958 64", 55# - YC124 – Wade
1958 64", 33#@26" - YE390 – Chuck
1958 66", 49# - YC345 – Wade
1958 66", 57# - YF995 – Chuck
1958 68", 45# - YC753 – Wade
1958 68", 58# - YE421 – Chuck
1958 70", 54# - YE921 – Wade
Post by: BobT on April 08, 2009, 02:24:00 AM
64" 45# YG447
(http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m100/rltjlt/001.jpg)
Post by: TRAP on April 08, 2009, 08:16:00 AM
Trap
Post by: TRAP on April 09, 2009, 06:26:00 PM
59 Kodiak Special
YA270
68"
42#
with underlays
59 Kodiak Special LH
WC771
64"
55#
underlays ????
Trap
Post by: kurtbel5 on April 09, 2009, 08:58:00 PM
2554
64"
50#
Kurt
Post by: d. ward on April 09, 2009, 09:04:00 PM
Post by: TRAP on April 09, 2009, 09:12:00 PM
Trap
Post by: Wade Phillips on April 09, 2009, 10:46:00 PM
Post by: TRAP on April 09, 2009, 11:15:00 PM
Did you hear that? Straighten Up Doc!!!!!
Trap
Post by: d. ward on April 10, 2009, 05:41:00 AM
Post by: TRAP on April 10, 2009, 08:37:00 AM
Trap
Post by: yellow bow on April 10, 2009, 04:46:00 PM
joe
Post by: Wade Phillips on April 12, 2009, 04:38:00 PM
Here is your updated list of 1958 and 1959 Kodiak Specials...
We haven't started a list for 1955 to 1957 yet..
1959 Kodiak Specials…
1959 62", 42# - VA040 - underlays - Bjorn
1959 62", 59# - VA105 - underlays - BowDoc
1959 62”, 45# - Display - underlays - Wade
1959 62", 46# - VA 228 - no underlays - Chuck
1959 62", 50# - VA467L - no underlays - Wade
1959 62", 50# - VA558L - no underlays - Trap
1959 62", 55# - VA612L - no underlays - Wade
1959 62", 40-45# - 17HX12 - no underlays – Chuck
1959 64", 52# - WA139 - underlays - Wade
1959 64", 52# - WA749 - underlays – BowDoc
1959 64", 48# - WB069 - underlays – Auction 5-02-2009
1959 64", 48# - WB504 - underlays - Trap
1959 64", 28# - WB934 – no underlays - Bill (original)
1959 64", 45# - WC020 - underlays - Chuck
1959 64", 53# - WC061 - no underlays - Jeremy
1959 64", 47# - WC365L - no underlays – Wade
1959 64", 50# - WC554L - auction
1959 64", 55# - WC771 - underlays???? Auction
1959 64", 50# - ?????? - no underlays – Wade
1959 64", 52# - WL197 - no underlays - Bjorn
1959 66", 28# - XA844 - underlays - Wade
1959 66", 43# - XA969 - underlay - Bjorn
1959 66", 37# - XB05 - underlays - Dennis
1959 66", 42# - XC 412 - no underlays - Chris
1959 66", 44# - XD049 - no underlays - Scott
1959 66", 48# - XD119 - no underlays - Trap
1959 66", 49# - XD178 - no underlays - Bjorn
1959 66", 40# - XE403L - no underlays - seboomook
1959 66", 47# - XE685 – no underlays Dennis
1959 66", 39# - XF090 – no underlays - Chuck
1959 66", 40# - XF877R - no underlays - Chuck
1959 68", 42# - YA270 - underlays - Auction
1959 68", 45#@29" - YA349 - underlays - Dennis
1959 68", 45# - YA367 - underlays - Wade
1959 68", 39# - YA456 - underlays - 2-26-08 Auction
1959 68”, 32# - YB499A - no underlays – Chuck
1959 68", 47# - YB626L - no underlays - Jeff
1959 68", 38# - YB965 - no underlays - Wade
1959 68", 55# - 9YX29 - no underlays - Bjorn
1959 70”, 42# - ZA003 - underlays – Auction 3-30-2009 LH
1959 70", 40# - ZA110 - underlays - Chuck
1959 70", 38# - ?????? - underlays removed – Wade
On 1959 Kodiak Specials, factory underlays are a layer of black marcata that was added to the belly side of the last 4" of the limb tips of some bows as shown below. The term, "underlays", is collector jargon to describe this cosmetic feature in a single word. The purpose of this list is to determine the order and frequency of this cosmetic feature.
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/00UNDER.jpg)
1958 Kodiak Special Serial Numbers …..
1958 62", 40# - YA214 – Auction 4-15-2009
1958 62", 44# - YC815 – Wade
1958 62", 47# - YG315 – Chuck
1958 62", 49# - YG895- Brad
1958 62", 47# - 4E339 – Wade - Serial Number was re-written on top of camo paint, that may be a mistake (YE339 seems more logical) original number may still be under paint...
1958 64", 55# - YC124 – Wade
1958 64", 33#@26" - YE390 – Chuck
1958 64", 45# - YG447 – Bob
1958 66", 49# - YC345 – Wade
1958 66", 57# - YF995 – Chuck
1958 68", 45# - YC753 – Wade
1958 68", 58# - YE421 – Chuck
1958 70", 54# - YE921 – Wade
Post by: TRAP on April 12, 2009, 05:17:00 PM
1959 66", 48# XD119 - no underlays - Trap
Thanks Wade, Trap
Post by: seboomook on April 12, 2009, 06:32:00 PM
1958 62", 49#- YG895- Brad
Post by: TRAP on April 12, 2009, 06:44:00 PM
Trap
Post by: seboomook on April 12, 2009, 06:50:00 PM
Kodiak. I put one of your rests on. That must be
the difference
Post by: TRAP on April 12, 2009, 07:00:00 PM
Trap
Post by: jcar315 on April 20, 2009, 10:56:00 PM
(http:// [url=http://images.imagelinky.com/1240282485.JPG] [img]http://images.imagelinky.com/1240282485.JPG)[/url] [/IMG]
(http:// [url=http://images.imagelinky.com/1240282532.JPG] [img]http://images.imagelinky.com/1240282532.JPG)[/url] [/IMG]
Hope this helps in the info compiling. This bow is wrong handed for me so not sure how long it will be staying at my house.
Post by: yellow bow on April 27, 2009, 07:54:00 PM
joe
Post by: Hoof on May 14, 2009, 10:12:00 PM
WD 438 64" 50#
VA 605 62" 40# L.
Post by: azdriheat on May 17, 2009, 09:47:00 PM
-Joe-
Post by: JL on May 25, 2009, 01:53:00 AM
Just traded for a 64" 51# 59 KS myself today. The bow is signed in the sight window by Glenn St. Charles and was refinished by Joe St. Charles. Looking forword to getting this bow.
JL
Post by: FBB on May 25, 2009, 10:04:00 AM
Did you find this on the Wall? If so I was looking at that bow myself but I have a new self imposed rule when I think I want another bow I have to wait a few days before I buy it. Though I lose out on some bows I haven't been going through as much money which I could use for other things like I don't know... food. Let us know what she looks/shoots like.
Post by: JL on May 25, 2009, 10:37:00 AM
Thanks!
Post by: 450 marlin on May 31, 2009, 10:00:00 PM
(http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u322/0710point/1243820952.jpg)
(http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u322/0710point/1243820953.jpg)
(http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u322/0710point/1243820955.jpg)
(http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u322/0710point/1243820954.jpg)
(http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u322/0710point/1243820956.jpg)
Post by: Migra Bill on May 31, 2009, 10:53:00 PM
1959 62", 59# - VA105 - underlays - BowDoc
I now own this bow!! How did you guys know about it?
Post by: Wade Phillips on June 01, 2009, 12:05:00 PM
Roy - I see that your 59 KS has 3 holes in the sight window. don't know if you realize it or not, but the bow was originally used as a dealer display bow with one arrow attached to each of the three holes.
Post by: Wade Phillips on June 01, 2009, 02:44:00 PM
1959 Kodiak Specials… June 1, 2009 Updated List
1959 62", 42# - VA040 - underlays - Bjorn
1959 62", 59# - VA105 - underlays - Bill
1959 62”, 45# - Display - underlays - Wade
1959 62", 46# - VA 228 - no underlays - Chuck
1959 62", 50# - VA467L - no underlays - Wade
1959 62", 50# - VA558L - no underlays - Trap
1959 62", 51# - VA575 - no underlays - Norman
1959 62", 40# - VA605L - no underlays - Chris
1959 62", 55# - VA612L - no underlays - Wade
1959 62", 40-45# - 17HX12 - no underlays - Chuck
1959 64", 52# - WA139 - underlays - Wade
1959 64", 52# - WA749 - underlays - BowDoc
1959 64", 48# - WB069 - underlays - Auction 5-02-2009
1959 64", 48# - WB504 - underlays - Trap
1959 64", 28# - WB934 - no underlays - Bill (original)
1959 64", 45# - WC020 - underlays - Chuck
1959 64", 53# - WC061 - no underlays - Jeremy
1959 64", 47# - WC124 - no underlays - Roy
1959 64", 47# - WC365L - no underlays - Wade
1959 64", 50# - WC554L - auction
1959 64", 55# - WC771 - underlays???? Auction
1959 64", 50# - WD438 - no underlays - Chris
1959 64", 50# - ?????? - no underlays - Wade
1959 64", 52# - WL197 - no underlays - Bjorn
1959 64", 51# - ?????? - underlays ?? - JL
1959 66", 28# - XA844 - underlays - Wade
1959 66", 43# - XA969 - underlay - Bjorn
1959 66", 37# - XB05 - underlays - Dennis
1959 66", 42# - XC 412 - no underlays - Chris
1959 66", 44# - XD049 - no underlays - Scott
1959 66", 48# - XD119 - no underlays - Trap
1959 66", 49# - XD178 - no underlays - Bjorn
1959 66", 40# - XE436A - no underlays - Joe - LH
1959 66", 40# - XE403L - no underlays - seboomook
1959 66", 47# - XE685 – no underlays Dennis
1959 66", 39# - XF090 – no underlays - Chuck
1959 66", 40# - XF877R - no underlays - Chuck
1959 68", 42# - YA270 - underlays - Auction
1959 68", 45#@29" - YA349 - underlays - Dennis
1959 68", 45# - YA367 - underlays - Wade
1959 68", 39# - YA456 - underlays - 2-26-08 Auction
1959 68”, 32# - YB499A - no underlays - Chuck
1959 68", 47# - YB626L - no underlays - Jeff
1959 68", 38# - YB965 - no underlays - Wade
1959 68", 55# - 9YX29 - no underlays - Bjorn
1959 70”, 42# - ZA003 - underlays - Auction 3-30-2009 - LH
1959 70", 40# - ZA110 - underlays - Chuck
1959 70", 38# - ?????? - underlays removed - Wade
On 1959 Kodiak Specials, factory underlays are a layer of black marcata that was added to the belly side of the last 4" of the limb tips of some bows as shown below. The term, "underlays", is collector jargon to describe this cosmetic feature in a single word. The purpose of this list is to determine the order and frequency of this cosmetic feature.
Post by: Lamont Granger on June 01, 2009, 05:34:00 PM
I have a RH 1959 68" Kod Special
sn YA 715
39#
no underlays
I have another at home, I will bring in the specs tomorrow on that one. It is a LH 64"
Lamont
Post by: d. ward on June 01, 2009, 05:46:00 PM
Post by: Brent Hill on June 01, 2009, 06:06:00 PM
Post by: jcar315 on June 01, 2009, 06:25:00 PM
Post by: Wade Phillips on June 02, 2009, 12:19:00 AM
Lamont - With all our lefty shooters around now, tomorrow when you open up the shop, there may be two or three of them waiting at your shop door to make you an offer for that LH 64" 59 KS, especially if it is a heavy weight.
Post by: jcar315 on June 02, 2009, 08:20:00 AM
Post by: Lamont Granger on June 02, 2009, 09:16:00 AM
I have a LH '59 Kod Spedial, 66", 45#, sn 4R21 and no underlays. I always remembered it as a 64". I have been shooting LH for 15 years now so not much chance until I can't shoot. Lamont
Post by: TRAP on June 02, 2009, 10:13:00 AM
Trap
Post by: Lamont Granger on June 02, 2009, 11:38:00 AM
Post by: TRAP on June 02, 2009, 05:40:00 PM
Trap
Post by: Wade Phillips on June 26, 2009, 10:13:00 AM
Post by: damascusdave on June 26, 2009, 04:27:00 PM
I could not figure out what "shelf in front of caps" meant for the 1963 version. The picture makes it obvious.
And by the way thank you for posting the pic at the end since that is where I have been checking the thread.
I have a bow on the way that I bought a while back on **** which is probably a 63, although it could be a 64 or 65 from the pics as well. I am hoping to have it in my hot little hands later today as I am a teacher and school is out for the summer. If not I am going to have to wait around until Monday or later since I cannot "bear" the idea of not having the bow to shoot this summer.
Just a quick question on the 63 riser; is the one in the pic light coloured bubinga or zebrawood?
Thanks so much for taking the time to do what you do so well. As soon as I can I will send you the info on my bow and pics.
Post by: damascusdave on June 26, 2009, 04:29:00 PM
Post by: Wade Phillips on June 26, 2009, 07:55:00 PM
The form the bow was built on really determines the year, not an incorrect number an employee wrote on a riser for one of a hundred or more reasons, e.g., first or last day on the job, filling in for someone who was sick, mad at the boss, hung over, in a hurry, lost a contact, goofing off, etc.
The 63 in the photo has Brazilian Rosewood Caps and Bubinga Riser.
Post by: damascusdave on June 26, 2009, 08:29:00 PM
I now have a pic from the **** listing loaded in Photobucket and I am trying to sort out how to attach it. One thing that it shows is that the coin is aluminum which is, as you say, not the "conventional" coin for a 63.
One of the reasons we buy these old bows is that they, like us, are a throwback to an earlier and less complicated time. Guess we should just be happy that they are available to us. Oh, and that we can post pictures of them for all to see!
Post by: damascusdave on June 26, 2009, 08:47:00 PM
Post by: damascusdave on June 26, 2009, 08:58:00 PM
(http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab54/damascusdave_2009/th_BS7cdBgB2kKGrHgoH-EEEjlLlyg1NBKFuCE.jpg) (http://s849.photobucket.com/albums/ab54/damascusdave_2009/?action=view¤t=BS7cdBgB2kKGrHgoH-EEEjlLlyg1NBKFuCE.jpg)
Post by: damascusdave on June 26, 2009, 09:08:00 PM
Unfortunately I am on the move next week so it may be September before I can get some more pics taken and sent. Fortunately I am headed to the Lake Windermere area in southeastern British Columbia which has a rod and gun club that includes archery. I am hoping there are at least a few traditional shooters there. If not then I will simply have to re-educate them!
Post by: Wade Phillips on June 28, 2009, 06:22:00 PM
Post by: damascusdave on June 28, 2009, 07:29:00 PM
Got to thank Joe St. Charles for getting me interested in buying a bow from the Sixties. Or I guess I should say my second bow from the Sixties since I am pretty sure my Ben Pearson Junior Jet came from the era as well.
Now since I seem to have become a 66 inch bow collector I think maybe my next bow ought to be a 1966 bow as well. I kinda like the Polar from that year better than the KS and I think it ought to be a left hander at about 36 to 38 pounds nominal.
Post by: damascusdave on June 29, 2009, 08:11:00 PM
Two things are immediately obvious, the coin really is brass colored as would be expected for 1963 and the serial number is actually 24BA110, not 248A110.
It is not as clean as I would have hoped with quite a few small character marks in various places. Still the grain in the bubinga is rather nice and the top rosewood cap has some very pretty grain. There are some characteristic vertical lines at both the top and bottom belly fades, but only one small bit where a nail catches.
For now I will just shoot it the way it is and then maybe one day take a serious look at stripping the finish, patching the dings and refinishing it.
Once again, Wade, thanks for your help and I will post some more pics as soon as I have the technology readily available.
Wish I could tell you what it shoots like, but for now everything I need to shoot it is either packed or already moved. I do like the feel of the grip, which I would guess is what Bear refers to as a pistol grip style. Feels quite a bit like the grip on my DH Ventura.
Post by: 450 marlin on June 30, 2009, 04:45:00 AM
70" 50# serial #5VX26
Post by: damascusdave on June 30, 2009, 09:22:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by 450 marlin:Nice way to celebrate the middle of its 50 th year.
Picked up a 1959 Kodiak Special..silver coin
70" 50# serial #5VX26
LH or RH?
Post by: TRAP on June 30, 2009, 09:33:00 AM
When I look at the pictures in your other thread, it appears that the belly of the sight window is wood instead of glass, which would make it a 59.
Maybe a closeup of the riser's belly would define whether it's a 59 or 60.
Trap
`
Post by: 450 marlin on June 30, 2009, 03:30:00 PM
22 stamp (maybe a carry over to 1960)
(http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u322/0710point/1246389799.jpg)
(http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u322/0710point/1246389803.jpg)
(http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u322/0710point/1246389800.jpg)
Post by: TRAP on June 30, 2009, 07:10:00 PM
Looks to be in great shape.
Trap
Post by: Nook on July 02, 2009, 02:20:00 PM
Post by: Wade Phillips on July 07, 2009, 09:20:00 PM
It only took 4 months and 5 days to get this photograph of these
1961 - 1967 Kodiak Specials - all 66"
Just loaded this photograph on the first page of this thread so the most important information is on first page.
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/KS61-67C.jpg)
Post by: TRAP on July 07, 2009, 10:42:00 PM
Nontypical serial number for a 59 KS, but no glass on the sight window belly which would make it a 59 KS, unlike the 60 KS which had glass on the belly of the sight window.
Trap
Post by: Wade Phillips on July 07, 2009, 11:50:00 PM
First and foremost is the frame or form a bow is built on.. Roy's bow is built on a 1959 form...
It has the 1959 riser configuration and the 1959 narrow grip...
Those things mentinoed above are permanent and not cosmetic.
Cosmetic features, such as serial numbers and coins can be anything, especially if the bow is made during the period when one year's model is transitioning to the next years model.
As I have said many times, anything could have been written on any bow by anyone at any point in time... There are dozens of reasons that a serial number might not fall in line with other 1959s... mismarked on purpose or by accident, refinished, not finished until later, special order, bow set back and found later, then finished with different number, and the list goes on and on. A bow like the 1959 KS with the flaired inset, could have been started and routed for the inset, then much later could have been completed.
If you can dream up a crazy reason for a mis-marked bow, it probably really happened.
The bows that do not fall in line with the other serial numbers, only prove the point that some bows were marked differently and all do not fall in line, which is the legitimate reason not to place much store in serial numbers for dating bows.
Truth is stranger than fiction. Odd things that happen in a factory environment are stranger than everyday life.
Talk with a retiree who worked in the same "built from scratch" manufacturing factory their entire life. They will tell you stories you never dreamed could be real about items that made it out the door as legitimate products and lunch box specials that went out the back door, or worst yet, stuff that was sold as scrap but purchased by employees who knew the products were really good.
Then talk with customer service or or the technical support personal who are out in the field and see the products that do no comply with with specifications and return those products to the factory and exchange them.
Post by: TRAP on July 08, 2009, 01:25:00 AM
Post by: TRAP on July 08, 2009, 01:29:00 AM
The bow fits really nicely on the rack with my other 59 Kodiak Specials. One to go. A 68 incher will complete the set for me.
Then maybe I can work on all those 59 Kodiak variations ;)
Trap
Post by: Wade Phillips on July 08, 2009, 11:43:00 AM
If you are going to put together one complete year of Kodiak Specials, 1959 would be my first choice too.
You are starting to make me feel sorry for you because you don't have a 68" Kodiak Special and I have two. I would send you one, but the risers of these two bows have different woods, so would hate to sell either bow.
When you get to the point that you feel you are desperate, let me know. I will loan you the 68" with golden rosewood slabs until you can find a 68".
Keep me posted on the vitals reading on your "desperate" meter.
Post by: D.Sheppard on July 08, 2009, 11:57:00 AM
I run a shelter for wayward, neglected or unwanted zebrawood riser bows and there is a few openings for those most in need.
Right now I have a Grizz, Tigercat, Bearcat, Cub and a Littlebear in zebrawood and would like to get a model of all the bears offered in zebrawood.
Thanx, Shep
Post by: Wade Phillips on July 08, 2009, 12:56:00 PM
These are some extra bows, let me know if you are looking for zebrawood bows that need refinish work. The 61 KS at the far left of the photo is 32#, 66" and is a candidate for a new home...
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/BOWS.jpg)
Post by: TRAP on July 08, 2009, 01:20:00 PM
Trap
Post by: Wade Phillips on July 08, 2009, 01:56:00 PM
The upside down 59 story, 60", 55#, purpleheart SW, crack in lamination at lower limb right at the fadeout and into glass on back. Was supposedly "repaired" by someone. Have strung it and drawn it, but I don't trust it. If used as a shooter, it would probably become a basket of splinters in short order.
Just another one of my many questionable bow investments that turned out to be less than what it was thought to be when acquired.
Post by: TRAP on July 08, 2009, 03:21:00 PM
Trap
Post by: Wade Phillips on July 08, 2009, 04:43:00 PM
Post by: JavelinaHink on July 08, 2009, 04:49:00 PM
Post by: Wade Phillips on July 08, 2009, 05:27:00 PM
"I'll give you $10 for yours".
Post by: kurtbel5 on July 09, 2009, 10:15:00 AM
Mike Macready of Maddog Archery is redoing a KS for Ray Roan.
He does nice work.
Kurt
Post by: Hoof on August 01, 2009, 01:00:00 PM
Post by: Wade Phillips on August 01, 2009, 11:54:00 PM
By extra thin black laminations, to you mean on the riser and tip overlays. That tapered shape can vary a lot giving the impression of a different thickness. Actual thickness could be different too.
Can you post a photograph of them?
Post by: Hoof on August 02, 2009, 05:41:00 PM
(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/Hoof43/59KS66.jpg)
Post by: Wade Phillips on August 02, 2009, 08:46:00 PM
On a 59 KS, have never seen the black accent stripe before. It appears to have an irregular width, like paint, on your far left photograph, enlarged below. It may be the lighting and irregular surface on the wood. Has the bow been refinished? The coin doesn't look like it has 50 years of patina. Can you post photographs of the end of the riser where the black line fades into the limb laminations, both sides of the top and bottom fade outs?
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/0-PAINT.jpg)
Post by: Hoof on August 02, 2009, 10:49:00 PM
Yes the patina was there and plenty dark too...If the tips had been in better shape I would have left the coin alone. There was something on the coin and needed to go. The limbs have some speckles from overspray of some kind and the tips are in need of repair also. But it is another beautiful piece waiting to be brought back to life. It has got some nice grain... I will get the pics you requested posted up tomorrow evening after I get home from the relentless grind of work. Talk to you tomorrow... Hoof
Post by: Wade Phillips on August 03, 2009, 12:17:00 AM
Post by: Hoof on August 03, 2009, 08:24:00 PM
(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/Hoof43/fades.jpg)
Post by: Wade Phillips on August 03, 2009, 09:28:00 PM
Post by: Hoof on August 03, 2009, 10:35:00 PM
Post by: jcar315 on August 04, 2009, 09:50:00 AM
Wade, Did Bear employees have "free rein" to do these type of things? Was it a what "feels right" or like some of the painted limbs done for some reason. Just curious.
Thanks John
Post by: Wade Phillips on August 04, 2009, 01:46:00 PM
As collectors we have a need to put everything in its own little category, but the truth of the matter is a lot of exceptions were made from the norm. Some on purpose and some by rouge employees to make something different to sneek out the back door and others as just plain goof ups.
If Bear had left over coins of one type and the type of coined changed the next year, they did not throw the old coins away, they were all used. Same with wood and glass. They found a way to use it.
Anyone who had worked around a factory will tell you that when the boss is not looking over their shoulder, some employees do a lot of things that are not sanctioned by the company.
Post by: Hoof on August 06, 2009, 09:52:00 AM
Post by: minnesota_hunter on August 11, 2009, 05:18:00 PM
66" 42# XF074 no underlay
64" 45# WB998 no underlays
Post by: Wade Phillips on August 12, 2009, 12:05:00 AM
Post by: TimberlineX on August 12, 2009, 11:06:00 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/TrdaeBows81209009.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/TrdaeBows81209010.jpg)
It has the same brown glass on both the back and the belly, and the serial number is a bit odd, making me wonder if it wasn’t some sort of special order bow.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/TrdaeBows81209033.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/TrdaeBows81209034.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/TrdaeBows81209002.jpg)
The limb tips do seem to be very well done.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/TrdaeBows81209032.jpg)
I’m guessing 1955 or 1956, although the limb glass color is throwing me. What do you guys think? What is this bow? (While not in great shape, this bow is available for trade or sale.)
Post by: seboomook on August 12, 2009, 11:31:00 AM
wouldnt any deviation from 28" draw be a special order bow also?
Post by: TimberlineX on August 12, 2009, 11:40:00 AM
Post by: Wade Phillips on August 12, 2009, 12:31:00 PM
At first I thought it was a 56 when I sent you PM. But having looked at the bow again, I see that it was actually built on a 1957 Kodiak Special form with a much longer riser.
Can you measure the bow to determine its exact length?
Post by: TimberlineX on August 12, 2009, 12:42:00 PM
Sure, I can take measurements this evening and report back in the morning. What exact measurements would you like? Any additional photos?
Bill
Post by: Mikenmn on August 12, 2009, 12:58:00 PM
59 KS 64" 32# WA728 underlays
Mike
Post by: Wade Phillips on August 12, 2009, 01:58:00 PM
The tip to tip measurement is probably the fastest way to determine what you might have.
Kodiak Special tip to tip lengths measured in a straight line...
1956, 60" just under 56"
1957, 62" just under 60"
This will help us determine if the bow may have been mis-marked.
A full length photograph will tell us what form the bow was built on. My guess is it was made on a form more like the 1957 Kodiak Special.
Post by: Wade Phillips on August 12, 2009, 02:15:00 PM
The bottom bow is a 60" 1956 Kodiak Special, with continuously arcing limbs.
Top three are all 62" 1957 Kodiak Specials, three sight window variations. Top one is standard production model. All three have straight limbs with recurved ends.
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/56-57-KS.jpg)
Post by: TRAP on August 12, 2009, 06:15:00 PM
Serial Number 5VX26 70" 50# No tip overlays
Trap
Post by: TimberlineX on August 12, 2009, 06:30:00 PM
Your latest photo is a big help in clarifying the differences between the 1956 and 1957 standard models. The limb patterns and riser lengths are dramatically different between the two years.
I’ll measure and photograph my sample this evening and post the results in the morning. My recollection and feeling is that my bow is more like the 1957 models you’ve shown. We’ll see.
Bill
Post by: Wade Phillips on August 12, 2009, 06:47:00 PM
Yes, there is a dramatic difference between the 60" 1956 and the 62" 1957 shown above. However, the 1956 in 64" and 68" are much closer to the limb design of the 1957.
In reality the 60" 1956 Kodiak Special became the 60" 1957 Kodiak by changing the the back to brown glass, the riser to solid maple and the tip overlays.
Post by: Wade Phillips on August 12, 2009, 06:52:00 PM
Trap - Added your 70" 1959 KS to the list. How about you 66", did I miss getting it on the list? Still looking for a 68"? See that last one at auction sneaked by you, (or should that be "streaked" by you)?
Post by: TRAP on August 12, 2009, 10:23:00 PM
Yeah I guess my 66" is missing from the list.
Serial# XD119 66" 48# no overlays
Thanks for compiling the list, Cool stuff.
Trap
Post by: TimberlineX on August 13, 2009, 11:12:00 AM
Last evening I measured six different Bear bows from tip to tip, including the Kodiak Special in question, and the results were as follows.
1954 Kodiak II (walnut) marked 60” and 49# ----- 55 ½ inches
1955 Kodiak marked 60” and 47# ----- 55 ½ inches
1956 Kodiak marked 60” and 48# ----- 56 ¼ inches
1957 Kodiak marked 60” and 48# ----- 56 3/8 inches
1958 Kodiak marked 60” and 49# ----- 56 3/8 inches
Kodiak Special marked 60” and 25# @ 25 inches ----- 57 1/8 inches
All measurements were made in this manner:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/Trad81309A052.jpg)
I also photographed five of the MAPLE-risered bows full length to show their limb configuration. The bows are (from top to bottom, and beginning below the 1964 Kodiak in the top photo) a 1955 Kodiak, a 1956 Kodiak, a 1957 Kodiak, a 1958 Kodiak and the bottom bow is the Kodiak Special we’ve been discussing.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/Trad81309A004.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/Trad81309A006.jpg)
Here then is a close-up of the top limbs:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/Trad81309A021.jpg)
And also a close-up of the riser sections.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/Trad81309A013.jpg)
Given all that, and the information in my previous posts (brown glass on both the back and the belly of the bow, etc.), what do you now make of this particular Kodiak Special?
Bill Krenz
Colorado
Post by: d. ward on August 13, 2009, 11:34:00 AM
Post by: TimZeigler on August 13, 2009, 12:57:00 PM
56 Kodiak Special 64" RH, grey back glass, and brown on the belly. Leather handle, XJ812.
Put it up beside my 68" 56 KS and noticed two distinct differences, one being that the 64 didn't have the accessory insert on the offside handle area. The second is that my 68" has the Kodiak Special water transfer on the belly of the top limb and not the back of the limb like the 64". The 68" bow has a National Field Archers Association water transfer where the Kodiak Special would be. Did Bear produce bows specifically for NFAA that they would have modified the markings locations to accomodate the organizational markings, or is this common with the 68" 56's?
(L)68" (R)64"
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c20/992life/Bear%20Bows/IMG_3892.jpg)
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c20/992life/Bear%20Bows/IMG_3893.jpg)
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c20/992life/Bear%20Bows/IMG_3894.jpg)
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c20/992life/Bear%20Bows/IMG_3895.jpg)
Wades response to the mismarking of the limbs. (http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=003011)
Post by: Wade Phillips on August 13, 2009, 01:31:00 PM
I do NOT believe the bow is mis-marked.
I would say that the 60" Kodiak Special is just that, a 60" Kodiak Special that was made with the straight limbs. Perhaps late in 1956 when they were working on the forms for the 1957 Kodiak Special, they made this bow.
In 1956 Specials were advertised in the catalog in 60", 64" and 68" lengths.
In 1957 Specials were advertised in the catalog in 62", 64", 66" and 70" lengths, but not 60" or 68".
Although the 68" was not advertised, it was made. I got one from Bjorn a few years ago and since have seen two others.
My guess is that Bear also made at least a limited number of 60" Specials like yours, as they made 60" Specials the two previous years in 1955 and 1956.
Your 60" Special has the multi-layered "I" beam that was used in 1955 and 1956 Kodiak Specials. It has from 5 to 8 thin laminations in the center of the "I" beam. I have a few very early 1957 Kodiak Specials that also have that 1955-56 multi-layered "I" Beam.
Logically, your 60" Kodiak Special fits right into the scheme of things with its multi-layered "I" beam, 60" length, straight limb design of the 1957 form, and helps tell the story of the evolution of the Kodiak Specials.
I would call your bow, a 60" 1957 Kodiak Special with a multi-layered "I" beam and brown glass.
Do you want me to just send you a blank check for the bow ;) Or do you have a trade in mind?
Post by: kurtbel5 on August 13, 2009, 01:33:00 PM
For me my loss was great grandpa's matched set of BP dueling pistols, sold by the family In-laws or should I say out-laws?
Post by: Wade Phillips on August 16, 2009, 08:17:00 PM
Wrote down the number, boy it is really an odd number ...
1959 64", 41# - 30HX1R, no underlays,
Just added her to the list and notice it has nearly the same sequence as Chuck’s 62”…
Post by: TimberlineX on August 27, 2009, 11:52:00 AM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/Trad82709A048.jpg)
The serial number is 26AJ201 and the specifications are 66" and 48#. This is a bow I just recently picked up in trade and its already proven to be a fine shooter. Those long 66-inch limbs draw smooth as silk and shoot surprisingly fast.
The soft green Bearglass facing and backing compliment the tropical hardwood riser.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/Trad82709A051.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/TimberlineX/Trad82709A046.jpg)
Gosh it’s fun to find and shoot these early target bows!
Bill Krenz
Colorado
Post by: Wade Phillips on August 30, 2009, 06:32:00 PM
Just added these three to the 1959 List
1959 64", 40# - WC839 - no underlays - Auction 8-30-09
1959 66", 40# - XB626 - Auction 8-30-2009
1959 66", 40# - XA591 - no underlays - Auction 8-22-09
Post by: alaskabowhunter on August 30, 2009, 06:42:00 PM
Post by: Wade Phillips on August 30, 2009, 10:29:00 PM
That 60" straight limb Special is the only one I have heard of, but been at it long enough not be be surprised to see more turn up. We have seen that happen time and again in the past. First one turns up, then a second, then more.
Continuing to discover and learn new things keeps collecting interesting.
The unknown and unlocking the mysteries are part of what makes collecting these old bows so much fun.
Post by: Wade Phillips on September 01, 2009, 05:03:00 PM
The 60" 1956/57 Kodiak Special arrived an hour ago. What a little sweetheart. Cleaned her up a bit, but need some renovation. Made on a much smaller riser than the 62" 1957 Kodiak Specials.
Shown below with three other Kodiak Specials...
Top to Bottom
62" 1956/1957 Transition Bow
62" 1956/1957 Transition Bow
60" 1956/1957 Different Frame
60" 1956 Standard Bow
(http://i386.photobucket.com/albums/oo301/WadePhillips/56-SP-1.jpg)
Post by: 450 marlin on September 19, 2009, 01:25:00 PM
(http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u322/0710point/1253379769.jpg)
(http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u322/0710point/1253379766.jpg)
(http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u322/0710point/1253379770.jpg)
Post by: TRAP on October 01, 2009, 10:32:00 PM
59 KS YC039 68" 39# No underlays
(http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa277/DUCK_TRAP/003.jpg)
Trap
Post by: Wade Phillips on October 03, 2009, 07:00:00 PM
Trap - Nice 68" 1959 KS. The burled grain in the sight window is super, about as nice as I've ever seen. Added it to the list of 59s on the first page.
Post by: Jeremy on January 05, 2010, 08:22:00 AM
Post by: damascusdave on November 04, 2010, 10:39:00 PM
DDave
Post by: damascusdave on November 04, 2010, 10:59:00 PM
The bow has been reassigned to whitetail duty.
DDave (http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab54/damascusdave_2009/019.jpg) (http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab54/damascusdave_2009/th_006-1.jpg) (http://s849.photobucket.com/albums/ab54/damascusdave_2009/?action=view¤t=006-1.jpg)
Post by: damascusdave on November 04, 2010, 11:05:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by sticknstring+:I notice that your 63 has micarta on the upper end of the riser. Mine only has it below the shelf.
Great thread Wade!
Been gone for a few days and missed alot of good stuff.
I dont have a 59 for the list(Yet!), but here's the one's I do have....
two 61's, a 63 and a 66.
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr72/gbsticknstring/IMG_8104.jpg)
(http://i471.photobucket.com/albums/rr72/gbsticknstring/IMG_8103.jpg)
I have to say that I am not a great fan of micarta accents. Black and white just do not belong on a bow that is essentially varying shades of brown and red brown.
My 64 Polar has green and white overlays and that is a little more reasonable.
DDave
Post by: cacciatore on November 05, 2010, 03:45:00 AM
Post by: damascusdave on November 05, 2010, 04:28:00 PM
DDave
Post by: damascusdave on March 11, 2011, 03:25:00 AM
I carry the scars,wrinkles,cracks,dents, and discolourations of my 59 years and there is no reason these oldies should not as well.
DDave
Post by: Jack Shanks on March 11, 2011, 07:08:00 AM
Post by: Wade Phillips on March 11, 2011, 09:00:00 AM
I updated the Kodiak Special Thread with your bow...
Thanks for letting us know about it.
Post by: Jack Shanks on March 11, 2011, 11:41:00 AM
Jack
Post by: Wade Phillips on March 11, 2011, 09:28:00 PM
I just noted no underlays.
Thanks for the information.
Anyone else have a 1959 Kodiak Special they want to list on the first page of this thread.... ???
Post by: minnesota_hunter on March 11, 2011, 09:41:00 PM
It is 40 @ 29 with underlays
ZA067
Post by: Wade Phillips on March 11, 2011, 10:56:00 PM
Just added your KS to the list. Thanks for posting the information.
Post by: 59Alaskan on March 11, 2011, 11:24:00 PM
I am the proud owner of a wonderful '59 KS.
serial # XB263; 48#; 66"; right handed
Black underlays. Has not been re-finished. Yellowing on the limbs but is really in great shape so am going to leave it as is.
Post by: doug77 on March 12, 2011, 09:48:00 AM
(http://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad298/doug7759/59KS4.jpg)
(http://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad298/doug7759/59KS3.jpg)
(http://i945.photobucket.com/albums/ad298/doug7759/59KS1.jpg)
Post by: Roddo on April 03, 2011, 07:54:00 PM
YB995 68" 73# TA031 70" 65#@29,no underlays.
Post by: Hoof on April 03, 2011, 09:08:00 PM
Post by: Tom on April 07, 2011, 03:00:00 PM
Post by: alaskabowhunter on April 15, 2011, 02:44:00 PM
1960 Kodiak Special 62", 40# ... only one I have ever seen. It is the top bow on the rack.
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/biggriz61/bowz001.jpg)
(http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d197/biggriz61/bowz005.jpg)
Post by: Wade Phillips on April 18, 2011, 11:15:00 AM
Nice find. You have a Kodiak Deluxe, which is exactly what the partial decal shows...
This link will also show that your serial number is consistent with the other 1960 60" Kodiak Deluxe serial numbers....
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=002910
Post by: Rick Enos on April 18, 2011, 11:34:00 AM
Post by: zepnut on April 22, 2011, 06:25:00 PM
Post by: zepnut on April 22, 2011, 06:29:00 PM
Post by: Wade Phillips on April 23, 2011, 01:21:00 AM
Thanks.
Just added 1959 Kodiak Special LH WB083 64" 50# with underlays
Post by: Hoof on April 24, 2011, 02:54:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Hoof:
Wade, here's one you can add to the 59KS list 1959 62", 48# - VA611L - no underlays - Hoof ....Looks like I have the little sister to yours?
Post by: Stinger on April 25, 2011, 08:52:00 AM
The serial number seems suspect as I haven't seen any others that started with a "U" listed here. It could be that the riser was refinished at some point and the original "V" or "W" was remarked improperly.
(http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp107/lotusf14/DSC01698-Copy.jpg)
(http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp107/lotusf14/004-Copy.jpg)
(http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp107/lotusf14/DSC01695-Copy.jpg)
Post by: Wade Phillips on April 25, 2011, 02:11:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Hoof:
QuoteOriginally posted by Hoof:[/b][/QUOTE
Wade, here's one you can add to the 59KS list 1959 62", 48# - VA611L - no underlays - Hoof ....Looks like I have the little sister to yours?
Hoof - Just added your VA611L to the serial number list on page one of this thread. Thanks for posting it.
Is the bow in original condition with the original serial number marked on it?
It is cool to finally see two consecutive serial numbers on the list...
Post by: Wade Phillips on April 25, 2011, 02:20:00 PM
Thanks for posting your 59 KS marked UB 448 64" 45# and has the underlays.
The bow looks to be refinished. Do you know who did the refinish?
I ask because the serial number is out of sequence for 64" 1959 Kodiak Specials and likely the original numbers were not put back on the bow when it was refinished.
I have one such incorrectly marked 1959 Kodiak Special that is refinished. The finish was in such poor condition, actually it was gone, that it did not have any numbers on it before it was refinished. Then when refinished, it was marked at random, with numbers are that not typical to 1959 Kodiak Specials.
You just never know about the markings on refinished bows.
Post by: Stinger on April 25, 2011, 03:03:00 PM
I bought the bow from HootieC. He said a guy named Rick did the refinish. I sent an email to determine who 'Rick' is. Hootie said the only thing that was done was it was sanded, new decals,tips are the same. He hunted with it and just wanted it cleaned up; it had 2 small stress lines in it, but you cant hardly see much of anything now. The bow wasn't beat up or anything when he had it refinshed,just showing its age.
Post by: Hoof on April 25, 2011, 10:17:00 PM
Thanks, Hoof
(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/Hoof43/59-62KS137.jpg)
(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/Hoof43/59-62KS138.jpg)
(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/Hoof43/59-62KS139.jpg)
Quote
Originally posted by Wade Phillips:
QuoteOriginally posted by Hoof:
QuoteOriginally posted by Hoof:[/b][/QUOTE
Wade, here's one you can add to the 59KS list 1959 62", 48# - VA611L - no underlays - Hoof ....Looks like I have the little sister to yours?
Hoof - Just added your VA611L to the serial number list on page one of this thread. Thanks for posting it.
Is the bow in original condition with the original serial number marked on it?
It is cool to finally see two consecutive serial numbers on the list... [/b]
Post by: Wade Phillips on May 08, 2011, 03:54:00 AM
Thanks for posting the photographs of VA611L.
It is a real beauty and looks a lot like VA612L as far as the wood type and grain.
Post by: Wade Phillips on May 08, 2011, 04:10:00 AM
I love the grain in Brazilian Rosewood in the sight window of your 59 Kodiak Special. I wish they all looked that good.
In looking at the photograph of the serial number that you posted, the actual handwritten lettering on that serial number doesn't appear to be anything close to the original lettering that I have ever seen on any of the dozens of 1959 Kodiak Specials that I have seen and owned over the years.
If the fellow you bought the bow from, HootieC. said said the only thing that was done that was he had Rick do sanding and new decals, I would have to guess that the lettering on the serial number was already altered before HotieC acquired the bow.
Just compare your 64" to the photograph that Hoof posted of the serial number on his 62"...
(http://i402.photobucket.com/albums/pp107/lotusf14/004-Copy.jpg)
(http://i134.photobucket.com/albums/q118/Hoof43/59-62KS137.jpg)
Post by: 1Maddog on October 09, 2013, 03:53:00 PM
It was in a close out bin for $25.00.
(http://i.imgur.com/sHP4QP9.jpg) (http://imgur.com/sHP4QP9)
(http://i.imgur.com/TI2uzeV.jpg) (http://imgur.com/TI2uzeV)
(http://i.imgur.com/fjnPUx9.jpg) (http://imgur.com/fjnPUx9)
(http://i.imgur.com/VUF3tYG.jpg) (http://imgur.com/VUF3tYG)
(http://i.imgur.com/tFxy941.jpg) (http://imgur.com/tFxy941)
Post by: Lucas K on October 12, 2013, 07:15:00 AM
Post by: TonyW on March 16, 2014, 10:42:00 PM
Post by: Wade Phillips on March 17, 2014, 07:45:00 PM
Don't know that anybody is still interested in Kodiak Specials, but if anyone has any 1959 KS to add to the list on the first page of this thread, please post them and I will get that list updated, if I can remember how to do that.
Have seen some unusual and/or really nice Kodiak Specials turn up over the past few years. Was lucky enough to pick up a few additions including one in December 2012 with the "EXP" factory marking, which only provides more proof that that we collectors sure haven't found and documented everything that is out there.
Post by: Blackhawk on March 18, 2014, 12:27:00 PM
1959 68", 50#@30" - YB364L - no underlays - Lon
Post by: Jack Shanks on March 18, 2014, 08:34:00 PM
XE683 66" 49# no underlays
WL570 64" 50# no underlays
Post by: Larry m on March 19, 2014, 06:29:00 PM
1959 KS
XF086 66" 40# no underlays
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll292/toxo-collector/Bears012_zpsc965a7aa.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/toxo-collector/media/Bears012_zpsc965a7aa.jpg.html)
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll292/toxo-collector/Bears009_zps38e6cfbc.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/toxo-[URL=http://s291.photobucket.com/user/toxo-collector/media/Bears009_zps38e6cfbc.jpg.html) collector/media/Bears010_zpsc053abb0.jpg.html] (http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll292/toxo-collector/Bears010_zpsc053abb0.jpg)[/URL] (http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll292/toxo-collector/Bears007_zps778b8679.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/toxo-collector/media/Bears007_zps778b8679.jpg.html)
Post by: Hobow on March 20, 2014, 09:31:00 PM
YA097, 68", 50# with underlays.
Brad
Post by: damascusdave on April 02, 2014, 09:04:00 PM
DDave
Post by: Wade Phillips on April 10, 2014, 02:09:00 PM
Thanks so much for sharing. Glad to see the interest in Bear bows continue.
Just added data from these posts to the list on the first page of this thread...
1959 68", 50#@30" - YB364L - no underlays - Lon
1959 64", 50# - WL570 - no underlays - Jack Shanks
1959 66", 49# - XE683 - no underlays - Jack Shanks
1959 66" 40# - XF086 - no underlays - Larry M
1959 68", 50# - YA097 - with underlays - Hobow
Post by: warpedarrow on October 07, 2014, 09:00:00 PM
Post by: Babbling Bob on October 11, 2014, 08:40:00 AM
1960 64" 45# - WD 106
Also have the 1959 64" 45# mismarked K Special that Stinger reported earlier with photos in this post (UD 448) where the UD was a W at one time. Of my five bows, it's still my go to bow during the summer 3D season 'cause it shoots as smooth as butter.
Babbling Bob
Post by: Babbling Bob on October 11, 2014, 09:06:00 AM
Post by: Wade Phillips on October 28, 2014, 01:14:00 PM
Just recorded your 448 on the list of 59 KS serial numbers on page 1 of this thread.
Post by: warpedarrow on November 01, 2014, 12:22:00 PM
64" WC613L. 48# no underlays
66" XE593 49# L. No underlays
68" YA309 37# underlays
68"YA869 44# No underlays
Post by: MarkG on November 01, 2014, 08:13:00 PM
My Kodiak Special is an odd duck, 59 or 60?
68" long
58#
19RX33 serial#
White with grey backing,
Copper coin.
Brazilian Rosewood and other exotic woods.
Post by: MarkG on November 01, 2014, 08:39:00 PM
Can't post any pictures yet as I am a new member, but pics to follow.
Post by: Wade Phillips on November 01, 2014, 10:26:00 PM
Just added your four 59 KS to the list. Thanks for posting the information.
Post by: Wade Phillips on November 01, 2014, 10:33:00 PM
Before posing your Kodiak Special to the list, I would like to ask you to make sure it is a 1959 and not a 1960 as the serial number falls in the sequence when the serial numbering format was being changed in the 1959-1960 bows. We do have a few of the newer serial numbers, but want to make sure the bow is a 1959 rather than a 1960. The photos on the first page of this thread clearly shows the differences.
68", 58# - 19RX33
Post by: MarkG on November 01, 2014, 10:41:00 PM
Re: Begining in 1959 exotic hardwords were used in bear bows for the first time. The earliest 1959's had a 1/4" lamination of maple sandwiched between the two rosewood laminations in the riser.
Handle riser wood from 1948 to 1958 was mostly Michigan maple with some walnut. In 1959 Brazilian rosewood started along with the African hardwoods of Shedua, Bubinga, Tigerwood, Pau-Ferro and Zebrawood. 1964 we find East Indian Rosewood in the top of the line models. In 1965 appears H.C. or high compression material. This is formica, a paper and resin laminate (not ebony wood). It is also used on the Super Magnum and Super Kodiak in the late 60's (I call these the Black Beauties) and parts of the HC 30, HC300 and Tamerlane target bows. By 1973 all model Bear bows are made of futurewood. (A colored polymer plastic impregnated maple) some models as early as 1970.
Post by: MarkG on November 01, 2014, 10:55:00 PM
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k314/Quietbowhunter/Picture005.jpg) (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/Quietbowhunter/media/Picture005.jpg.html)
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k314/Quietbowhunter/Picture001.jpg) (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/Quietbowhunter/media/Picture001.jpg.html)
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k314/Quietbowhunter/Picture002.jpg) (http://s91.photobucket.com/user/Quietbowhunter/media/Picture002.jpg.html)
Post by: Wade Phillips on November 02, 2014, 10:43:00 AM
Yes your bow is a 59 if it looks like the images above. I recorded your bow on the list on page one of this thread as...
1959 68", 58# - 19RX33 - no underlays - MarkG
Post by: MarkG on November 02, 2014, 01:09:00 PM
Post by: MarkG on November 02, 2014, 01:12:00 PM
Post by: MarkG on November 02, 2014, 01:17:00 PM
Post by: MarkG on November 02, 2014, 01:21:00 PM
Post by: MarkG on November 02, 2014, 01:25:00 PM
Post by: Wade Phillips on November 02, 2014, 01:27:00 PM
Nice clean looking 59 KS
Post by: MarkG on November 02, 2014, 01:30:00 PM
Post by: MarkG on November 02, 2014, 01:34:00 PM
Your collection is amazing by the way!
Post by: MarkG on November 02, 2014, 01:36:00 PM
Just noticed my bow is the heaviest weight 59 KS so far.
Post by: MarkG on November 02, 2014, 02:22:00 PM
Post by: MarkG on November 02, 2014, 02:24:00 PM
Post by: Wade Phillips on November 02, 2014, 07:39:00 PM
Cool riser with the extra maple lamination. Don't ever recall seeing a 59 KS with a riser like that.
I assume the extra maple lamination ends at the fadeout. Is that correct?
Post by: MarkG on November 02, 2014, 09:17:00 PM
Post by: MarkG on November 02, 2014, 09:20:00 PM
Post by: MarkG on November 02, 2014, 09:23:00 PM
Post by: MarkG on November 02, 2014, 09:26:00 PM
Post by: MarkG on November 02, 2014, 09:32:00 PM
Thanks Wade ☺️
Post by: Wade Phillips on November 03, 2014, 06:25:00 AM
That is the coolest 59 KS ever.
The extra maple lamination goes between the ends of the fadeouts and continues as a limb lamination.
Does the extra lamination go all the way to the end of the limb tips?
Post by: MarkG on November 03, 2014, 08:31:00 AM
Post by: MarkG on November 03, 2014, 08:36:00 AM
All the way to the tips Wade.
Post by: Wade Phillips on November 03, 2014, 12:13:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MarkG:The heaviest KS that I have, which is similar to yours, is a 65# 1960. It simply has two thick maple laminations rather then three.
i wonder if the other heavyweight 59 KS have this for increased poundage or is this purely aesthetics?
I have several 1959 Kodiaks with multiple laminations on the belly side of the riser next to the glass that continue to the limb tips, but the laminations are not between the fade outs.
I would almost have to guess that when the laminations of your bow were glued up, they were unintentionally laid down with thin maple and belly taper laminations reserved. Now, well over 59 years after the fact, it is perhaps impossible to ever know what was intentional and unintentional.
Either way, intentional or unintentional, you have a cool bow.
I have seen two other Bear bows with reversed laminations. One was reversed only on one limb. Of course, that was an obvious error.
Post by: MarkG on November 04, 2014, 09:06:00 AM
Post by: Wade Phillips on November 04, 2014, 11:18:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MarkG:MarkG -
...When you send your bow in for warranty, Bear returns it with a star stamped in it and erases the serial number...
To my knowledge there is no 1960 era Bear Factory documentation known to authenticate any of the various stampings found on Bear bows from this era, "star", "+", etc.
However, there is much contradictory speculation about these stampings, some of which, is obviously in error.
It seems that you have been told a combination of two generally unrelated events,
1) factory star stamping and
2) removing serial numbers.
I have seen and presently own several star stamped Bear bows, all of which, have the original serial numbers completely intact.
My limited experience, indicates that your bow is the norm, having a star stamp with the serial number intact.
Post by: Blackhawk on November 04, 2014, 12:00:00 PM
So Wade, what's your take? Got any '61's with the star AND serial still intact?.
BTW, it's great to see you posting here again. I'll have to return regularly to continue my Bear education.
Post by: Wade Phillips on November 04, 2014, 12:09:00 PM
Yes, here at the Arsenal there are two 61's with the star stamp and serial number.... both have some vertical stress cracks in the limbs.
6F176 - 60" - 70# - Solid Bubinga Riser
26E169 - 60" - 53# - Solid Bubinga Riser
I do not have any 61 Kodiaks with the serial number removed, although I have some other Bear bows with the serial number intentionally removed and some with the serial number faded away or unreadable.
Post by: Blackhawk on November 04, 2014, 12:31:00 PM
Sorry, but I guess I'm getting into the weeds.
Post by: Wade Phillips on November 04, 2014, 02:47:00 PM
Many collectors want to own standard factory bows that have standard factory labeling. They feel that the removal of a serial number or labeling, or the addition of an after market stamping devalues the item. Many of these collectors have more interest in shooting or hunting with these collectible bows, than collecting every known variation of a particular manufacturer, model, year or length.
The rarest breed, (if known to exist), would probably be collectors who actively search for and have extensive collections of Bear bows with different stampings and non standard factory labelings.
Lets face it, a floor to ceiling rack of 2 dozen or more of the same year bow that have hardly any noticeable variations, is probably much less exciting than the same rack with noticeably different, eye catching bows.
Generally, it is the nature of many collectors to want to have a unique or rare item. Some collectors who are neophytes in the archery field, have extensive collecting experience in far more widely popular fields such as stamps or coins.
Many serious stamp and coin collectors look for any slight variation in items and grade or value these anomalies with great reverence.
From time to time, it seems that some of these obsessions from other collecting fields leach into the archery collecting discipline.
Post by: warpedarrow on November 04, 2014, 08:37:00 PM
Was the 22 stamp used to designate structural repair to the bow?
I am cleaning up a Deluxe with the 22 stamp on it. When I pulled off the feather rest I found a small hole in the shelf that I honestly can't tell if it was drilled or a worm hole. I put a couple of cc's of super glue into it for good measure. At that time I had not found any problems with the wood in the riser. Now that I have a couple of dozen coats of finish on the bow and can really see the wood well, I can barely see a very small crack running from the grip and up over the shelf. Now I am wondering if the bow was sent back to Grayling and I am finding the repair.
Post by: Wade Phillips on November 04, 2014, 08:48:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by warpedarrow:NO
Was the 22 stamp used to designate structural repair to the bow?
I have owned many 22 bows and all were still in excellent and original shooting condition.
Some were stamped with more than two 2's.
I owned two 59s that each had five 2s (55555) stamped in the risers.
Both were great shooters, in original condition.
I still have one of them, it's one of many of my favorites.
Post by: warpedarrow on November 04, 2014, 09:24:00 PM
Post by: MarkG on November 04, 2014, 10:31:00 PM
Post by: Wade Phillips on November 04, 2014, 10:33:00 PM
That being said, more than one 1950-1960s Bear Salesman has told me that the bows with a stamping (that is any stamping, i.e., star, 22, etc.) were discount priced bows, such as left over bows from previous year's models, blems, refinished returns, etc, that were sold at discounted price and with no warranty on the bow.
Also talked to dealers who sold the discounted bows including the top volume dealer of these bows at one time.
Also have Bear factory invoices that document the invoiced bow as a "second", and invoiced at a discounted price.
The only thing I don't have is a serial number on a bow that matches one of the serial numbers of the seconds that Bear sold, which would provide unquestionable documentation of a specific stamping. Maybe that will turn up someday, you never know, stranger things have probably happened.
Post by: MarkG on November 04, 2014, 11:56:00 PM
Post by: Wade Phillips on November 05, 2014, 09:28:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MarkG:Any stamping is a discounted bow, with no warranty.
Any observations on the meaning of the star and how many are out there?
The "secret detailed meaning" of each individual stamping is unknown to exist in any documentation from the Bear Archery Factory.
It is amusing to hear speculation about the "secret detailed meaning" of a specific stamping, when at the same time not a single scrap of paper from the Bear Archery Factory can be produced by the speculator(s) as proof to the meaning of any specific stamping.
Regarding the question about "how many stars are out there", - who knows? - Hey, how many bows are out there? - who knows?
Standard answer for unknown numbers questions... "exactly half the total if it were doubled."
Your question, "Any observations on the meaning of the star", has a theme song that our two year grand daughter sings along with her grandmother on the piano...
"Twinkle, twinkle little star, how I wander what you are..."
Post by: MarkG on November 24, 2014, 11:08:00 PM
This one is a late 59 with brown on the front and back.
3SX60
66"
55#
(http://i.imgur.com/LhrLrih.jpg)
Post by: MarkG on November 24, 2014, 11:10:00 PM
Post by: MarkG on November 24, 2014, 11:13:00 PM
Post by: MarkG on November 24, 2014, 11:17:00 PM
Post by: MarkG on November 24, 2014, 11:19:00 PM
Post by: warpedarrow on November 25, 2014, 05:38:00 AM
I certainly consider the brown glass to be preferable to some of the grays, light greens, and white that were soon to adorn the Kodiak Specials.
Post by: papabear08 on November 25, 2014, 02:05:00 PM
Post by: MarkG on November 25, 2014, 11:05:00 PM
Who knows what it was, all the flys on the wall that witnessed these things have all up and died of old age.
Post by: Wade Phillips on November 26, 2014, 05:16:00 PM
Cool looking brown glass 59 Kodiak Special. Have seen several odd duck 59 and 60 Bear bows, reversed colored glass and both sides the same color white. Both sides same color brown, really makes a different looking bow. Thanks so much for sharing photographs of your unique bow.
Post by: monkeyball on December 03, 2014, 08:38:00 AM
(http://i496.photobucket.com/albums/rr330/livrht/DSCF0338_zps86bdb33a.jpg) (http://s496.photobucket.com/user/livrht/media/DSCF0338_zps86bdb33a.jpg.html)
Good Shooting,
Craig
Post by: Wade Phillips on December 09, 2014, 08:12:00 AM
Yes, a 1964 for sure with the glass full length on the back of the riser. The 1963 did not have glass the full length on the back of the riser.
Post by: Wade Phillips on December 09, 2014, 08:21:00 AM
Forgot until just now while looking the images of your 1959 Kodiak Special with brown glass on the back & belly...
I have a very early 1957 Kodiak Special with brown glass on both the back & belly.
This differs from the 1956 that had brown glass on the belly and gray glass on the back, it also differs greatly from the 1957 that had tan glass on both the back & belly.
Post by: 4runr on January 19, 2015, 06:48:00 PM
Post by: dnurk on October 06, 2015, 04:14:00 PM
Thanks to all for the knowledge shared here.
Post by: Blackhawk on January 16, 2016, 05:05:00 PM
Post by: damascusdave on July 24, 2016, 08:18:00 PM
DDave
Post by: mangonboat on July 25, 2016, 11:55:00 PM
Post by: warpedarrow on July 27, 2016, 04:47:00 AM
Post by: 2ndTimeShooter on September 04, 2016, 02:53:00 PM
YA419
68"
42#
Like all of them, it's a very pretty bow. It has the underlayment near the tips.
Post by: jr1959 on September 17, 2016, 05:58:00 PM
Post by: Wade Phillips on October 17, 2016, 10:58:00 PM
Post by: Wade Phillips on October 17, 2016, 11:05:00 PM
Post by: TRAP on December 31, 2016, 11:35:00 AM
Post by: bowhunterfrompast on December 31, 2016, 01:45:00 PM
Post by: mangonboat on April 02, 2022, 02:29:50 PM
Post by: murph60 on April 03, 2022, 05:16:27 PM
Hope this gets on the list.
Post by: Keefer on April 05, 2022, 05:53:02 PM
But a few years ago I trade a Asbell pullover and a 3 rivers travel longbow case for this Kodiak Special.