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Main Boards => The Dark Continent => Topic started by: Tilzbow on October 11, 2005, 09:01:00 PM
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For plains game at Melorani. Maybe even eland but probably not that big. My new bow will shoot a 600 grain arrow about 185 to 190 FPS. I've got my choices narrowed down to a Magnus I, II, Stinger or the STOS. All 2 blade and the head weight will depend on which flies best out of new bow. All four heads are slightly different in dimension and all four would probably work just fine but I can't decide.
Which head design would you use and why?
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Based on what I saw during my hunt this summer I would go with the Magnus I. If all of your shots are perfect it won't matter but the bigger heads will help on a hit that is less than perfect, the bigger the better. I shot 4 animals with Zephyr Sausquatch broadheads that are wider than the Magnus I and I used a Magnus I on my Kudu. All 5 shots resulted in the arrows either blowing through or hanging out the oppisite side by the feathers. I shot an Eland with a Damascus steel trade point that was 1 1/8th wide and it would have been a pass through also but it went into the oppisite shoulder. I think that the Sausquatch or Magnus I would have done the same. I am going back in 2007 and I am going to take some 160 gr Snuffers along on that trip.
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Without question, I would go with the Magnus. I can never remember which head is the I and which is the II. I use the wide 135 grain Magnus and if I am right, that is the Magnus I.
I've been over there 13 times and used a variety of heads. The fastest kills, best blood trails, and best recoveries on marginal hits have all been with the wide Magnus.
HERE'S AN IMPORTANT TIP!!!! The Magnus comes with a needle point. Round the tip slightly! You will actually get BETTER penetration on bone and no chance of the tip curling.
Here's how I recommend sharpening them... DON'T go for a SHAVING edge. It dulls too quickly on hair and bone. I put mine on a belt sander or file them. Then I run through a Redi-Sharp, carbide sharpener three strokes per side. You will not believe the edge you will get and it won't corrode or dull in a quiver.
Good luck...you're going to LOVE Africa. It gets in your blood!
Too Short
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I agree With Paul (AKA TFS) on the Magnus. I sharpen my Magnus and Zwickies with a file only and can get them shaving sharp but the file leaves them with a sort of serated edge to my liking. The magnus are a bit eaiser to sharpen than the zwickey for me but the Z seems to hold the edge longer. I used both on plains game including Eland and I would recommend either.
Regards; T-Bell
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I always use the BIGGEST head that I am sure will make an exit wound on the biggest animal I am likely to get a shot at. I used the 160 Magnus exclusivly in Africa, because I happen to have a bunch of them on hand and was totally satisfied with the performance. I shot one at 10 yards through a jackal just at dark and the head made sparks on a rock just behind it, this was with an 80# bow and 700 grain arrows, the head was still good to go, just a couple licks with a file.
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I'm glad to hear everyone is recommending the Magnus I since I've got about 18 that are already razor sharp. I'm going to work the tip as T.F.S. suggests since these are a few years old and have a needle point that might roll over if I hit a rib. Now it's just a matter of getting the weight right so they fly perfect. I may need to move up to the 160 or play around with different weight screw in adapters but that'll keep me occupied and help cope with the wait.
I thought the newer ones had the diamond point so maybe I won't need to work over the ones I buy. Has anyone used the new ones with the diamond tip?
Anyway, I too like the wide head and was just wondering what others thought.
Thanks Guys!
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The one that I used had the diamond tip on it but I didn't hit any heavy bone. You could chisel the tips on the ones you have real easy with a file. Hold the broadhead so the edge is perpindicular to the file and angle it up off the file so when you push the BH down the file it makes about a 1/16th facet on each side of the point. This will give you a point that won't roll over but has a sharp edge on the very point. Almost like the tip of a grizzly, just smaller. Joseph
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Even on the new ones, you should round that tip a bit. I just use a file and work it over a bit. It works perfectly every time for me.
Too Short
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I've used to Magnus 160's but really favor the Stos 160's they just shoot better and penetrate better with my low poundage bows 49 - 52 @ 26.
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I also have to agree with Ontario Longbow concerning the STOS broadheads.
I've used both and both are great heads, but if I had to choose one or the other, I would go with the STOS.
I have no doubts that if you go with Magnus you will still be happy.
Ray ;)
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The Magnus I on the left in both pictures has had the tip modified. The one on the right is the stock needle point after sharpening. Is the rounded tip on the left about right?
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b130/tilzbow/P1010005.jpg)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b130/tilzbow/P1010007.jpg)
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As the old line goes, "Bingo, Pinhead"! You're right on the money! If I could post pictures, I would post one of the Magnus II that completely severed a rib going in to my Cape Buffalo and completely severed a rib on the far side.
It is in perfect condition and could actually be used for hunting without re-sharpening! An unbelievable arrow head, in my opinion!
I re-read your first comments, tilzbow, and I'll give you a couple of thoughts on the STOS. My first comment is that it is made by Magnus, so you know the quality is perfect. Second...it's not wide enough!
African game has a different blood clotting factor than American game, according to a Pathologist friend of mine. You need to OPEN A BIG HOLE IN THEM, in order to get good blood trails and heavy bleeding. The Magnus I, in my book, is the only head I will use.
Cheers, mate!
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So are you saying that an extra 3/8" in cutting width creates that much better of a bloodtrail when comparing 2 blade broadheads?
I find that hard to believe but I haven't been able to test it. All I can go own is personal experience with elk and intensive studies such as the Ashby Report.
Have you used the STOS on African game and seen loss blood than what the Magnus creates?
Ray ;)
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I haven't used the STOS on African game, Ray, but I have seen a serious difference between bleeding with the 125 grain Magnus compared to the 135 grain Magnus.
So far, everyone that has used them at Greater Kuduland, where I hunt, has a better results than any of us in the past with the narrower heads.
Now I realize that this isn't very scientific, but I've been there 13 times and taken a couple of hundred critters there, if not more. On the ground experience tells me that the wide two blade brings the best results. Our outfitter has also noticed and commented on the better blood trails since a number of us went to the Magnus I.
I hope this answers your questions. By-the-way, I did try the STOS heads. I just couldn't get them to fly right...weird, but I tried every thing and they wander on me.
I stick with the Magnus...sort of like that old addage...if it ain't broke, don't fix it!
Too Short
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If you didn't try the STOS what were the other 2 blade broadheads that didn't perform as well as the Magnus 1?
Thanks,
Ray ;)
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What kind of penetration are you getting on elk size animals...complete pass throughs, complete chest cavity penetration or something else?
Thanks,
Ray ;)
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Using a Zephyr Sausquatch I shot a Red Heartabeest and an Impala with complete arrow pass throughs. Sticking in the dirt on the other side of the animal. I used a large Pearson Deadhead on an Nyala with the same results. On my Zebra and Kudu the arrows were hanging out of the other side of the animal by the feathers. The Zebra was shot with a Zephyr and the Kudu with a Magnus I. My Eland was the only animal that I didn't have and exit wound on and that was because the arrow stuck in the oppisite shoulder. He didn't hardly even drop any blood on the ground but that didn't matter as the arrow pin cushioned his heart and he only went 40 yards. He was the only animal that I used a narrow Broadhead on (1 1/8th inches). Even with a broadhead through his heart and the shaft snapping off inside and falling out there was almost no blood that came out of him. The other 5 animals all bled profusely. Again not real scientific and I have only shot 6 animals in Africa but my results were the same as what Paul has seen with vastly more experience. Joseph
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Thanks Joseph...I love info like that ;)
Ray ;)
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I wouldn't worry about blood trails on African game. You won't be tracking your animals. I think the Bushmen really could track a spider across bare rock! They don't need any stinken blood trail! When you choose your broadhead, think more about accuracy first, ability for you to sharpen second, and lastly penitration. Durability goes without saying, but your list started with heads that would do the job. Lots will get the job done. Grizzly 125's worked for me.
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First answer...I tried Zwickey and Hunter. Good heads, but not as good as the Magnus. Remember, this is an OPINION. It doesn't make it the Gospel!
Second answer...penetration varied. I shot through a lot of animals. I shot a Gemsbuck in his bed at 12 yards. Arrow quartered in through the gut, into the lungs and heart, and stuck out in front of the off front shoulder! Now THAT is PENETRATION, since a Gemsbuck is almost solid muscle.
Some trackers are better than others. My favorite tracker, who is AWESOME, is dying of AIDS, so I have had some that are no where near as good. Yes, the Bushmen are stupendous, but there are none of them tracking in South Africa, to my knowledge.
Cheers from Too Short!
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I hunt hogs twelve months a year- I've shot easily more than 100 of them- friends I take with me have taken at least the same amount.
I hunt exclusively with Grizzly broadheads now. I've used a lot of different broadheads- two blade, three blade, different weights and length to width ratios.
Though I am still PLANNING a trip to Africa- hogs are an old world species and as such are similar to African game in that their vitals are well forward of what we think of as the sweet spot on deer - add to that the fact that they are heavily covered in gristle over the vitals in the case of boars and ALL of them have lots of fat to plug up wounds and they are a true test for any broadhead.
All that said, I believe that close shots using heavy (relative to your bow weight of course) arrows tipped with well-sharpened whatever broadhead you use, and putting the arrow in the proper location MAKES any reasonable broadhead a winner.
The sharpest thing I have ever encountered in this life was a set of woodworking chisels that belonged to my grandfather. He was a hobby cabinetmaker...and those things could cut you if you just looked at them wrong- and they held their edges for so long- I watched him use them for hours without so much as touching them up.
The man knew how to sharpen everything- but those chisels could cut away the hardest hardwood with such ease, and though his pocketknives and kitchen gadgets were sharp as tacks, the chisels were MEAN and I always remembered that.
Then when I ran into the Grizzly, and the fact that it sharpens EXACTLY like a chisel or lawnmower blade I felt that this would be a head that I could learn to sharpen that would RETAIN an edge better- and work through problematical shots for me when they occured, and because of their toughness do the best job possible with the least chance for failure.
Sure, you don't NEED that much broadhead on deer size game...but my thoughts have always led me to plan for the WORST possible outcome in a shooting situation- ie- if I did hit the shoulder bone square on, what would I want on the end of my arrow?-and then if that doesnt happen- if everything works perfectly- the equipment 'overkill' still gets the job done splendidly.
Admittedly, I do not 'stretch' my effective range- I usually get stuff at impossible to miss ranges- I took a 22 yard shot in Wyoming in September and I think thats the longest shot I have taken in many years! Shot the mule deer twice and both shots were pass throughs..he never got out of his bed!
The Grizzly was the ONLY broadhead that got through the Natal Study Dr Ed Ashby conducted during the 80's using set up freshly killed carcasses and putting lots of broadheads through their paces- all the heads he tested failed at least once if my recollection is correct EXCEPT the Grizzly- further studies are being done now in Australia and there may be other heads that work as well or better but in my mind I am shooting the best broadhead I can put on my shafts.
Thats important- YOU must feel that confident about your arrows- they are the only part of your equipment that reaches out and touches your quarry and you must believe 100% that its going to do the job. Experiment, practice, and believe that what you shoot is going to do the job when EVERYTHING goes wrong and you will be doing the best you can do!
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This is just to piss Paul off, but I shot 160 grain Snuffers in Africa this August and was 7 for 7 with incredible blood trails and exit wounds. 70# @ 31.5" If I were to shoot two blades like some of you I would shoot the wide Magnus as well. Just figured I would ruin a perfectly good post.
Mike Taylor
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Considering I taught you everything you know about bowhunting...and I had to climb a bloody ladder to do it, I would think you would show more respect, young man!
You just got lucky, that's all, Mike!
To piss you off...I'm hunting Whitetails in Iowa right now. What are YOU doing? Selling insurance?
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!
Too F. Short
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Must be nice to be so cool! I'm geeking out selling insurance to non-bowhunters and carrying rattling antlers in my truck to jam out after work to sit stand and get ran over by pumpkin rifle hunters on public land.
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Rattled in six this morning. Three came at the same time and two of 'em got in a good fight right in front of my stand. Nothing over 140"...bummer!
Cheers, Mike!
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I've got 2 blade 125 gr. Magnus Stingers. They came in the package dull. I'm used to sharpening my old Case pocketknife that's made from high carbon steel. In 2 minutes with an Arkansas stone I can make it razor sharp. Now I try to sharpen these stingers and it's like the steel is made of cheese. I can't get an edge on them that I'm satisfied with. I knew I should have gone with the regular Magnus 2 blades. I like the idea of a replacable main blade. That's what sold me. The milk steel is unselling me in a big way. What's with this crappy stainless? Are they affrad that the deer didn't get it's tetinus shot or something?
How do I get an edge on these? I think I'll just use them on deer and rabits. I'll get some regular Magnus 2 blades for going to Africa with.
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hard to turn down a magnus for big game or any game for that matter. if your shooting wood arrows i would definately say either the two blade or 4 blade will do the trick and will make you smile and practice that vital hit and your in
rob k
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Nothing like razor sharp MODOC! its real 3:1 ratio cut on impact 2 blade, 50 rockwell spring steel!! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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First off I think the best of the broadheads are those that you can sharpen. I know that most of us here are probably pretty good at sharpening; but the worst broadhead is a dull one. I love sharpening zwickey 2 blades. If I run into a flock of grouse when I am elk hunting; I can resharpen the zwickeys quickly. I use a file.
Way too many times I have seen people dabble in bowhunting and get upset at lost game. When I ask them if they knew for sure the arrow shot straight with the broadhead they had on; they too often say that they shot it to test it.
And too many times they did not resharpen it.
Then too- I have checked the sharpness of fellow bowhunters broadheads while afield; and found the heads to be dull...
There is a myth that you don't have to sharpen blades after shooting them just a 'couple times'.
Heck; I check my broadheads to make sure rust or something like incidental contact; has not dulled them.
I have shot magnus heads; I liked them; but I like zwickey 2 blades more. Thats out of habit and perhaps my personal tradition.
I have tried this year using 4 blade zwickeys; although I don't consider them to be a 'real' 4 blade head.
I had excellent penetration on the deer and the elk I shot with them; and yet- I will be the first to admit they are really- really- hard to sharpen.
I have not used the grizzly head; but I do have a knife someone gave me that I thought was a real joke. Its a chinese 2 1/2 inch blade; half of which is like a grizzly head; with the one side flat; the other tapered to the edge.
The back half of the blade is serrated.
I process game; and I have noticed the ability of the chisel part of the blade of that knife to do more cutting without sharpening than a traditional edged knife.
I can saw through a pelvis; or a rib cage with the thing; even on elk; with relative ease.
I have sharpened both parts of the knife a couple times- but it really holds an edge.
Sharp. If you cannot make them sharp; they won't cut; and that is the basic way the broadhead works.
I don't know how if you spin test a broadhead if you take off the point to a flat edge. I have a habit of spin testing my arrows to make sure the head is on straight before I resharpen.
How do you spin test without the tip on the broadhead?
I doubt I will ever go to Africa; but if there is small game there to shoot - I can't see me not shooting at them.. and that will mean field sharpening.
Like I say- the ability to sharpen and resharpen a head is a huge factor. HUGE.
How do modocs and others do in that department?
What sharpening method do you suggest to others?
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Brian , great points ...My Modocs come pretty sharp ...they pass my rubber band test that I use in Hunter Ed classes. But for about 20.oo bucks I use a carbide touch up sharperner, its shaves hair...light touches less is more in most cases...what I found is that I was bearing down too hard on my BH's ...Zwickeys might be the easiest to get sharp with file. I have always had trouble getting BH's razor sharp...so I read and practice alot, good info right here on this site...after I sharpen my heads, flight of my arrow is key ...talkin about BH's is like talkin about politics... :) good luck ...Marco#78
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I don't know. Except for buff, I also went 7 for 7 with 3 blade heads. I used 125gr razorcaps and 550 grain arrows, 65# longbow. Shot completely thru 4 animals including Kudu, the other 3 stuck in opposite side shoulders. 6 of 7 fell within site. For plains game, I'd rather have the big holes than the two blade slits.
BUT it's hard to argue with the little guy,(even though I rarely mmmmmmiss a chance to) he's been there a hundred days more than I have.
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Ya can't leave out a 125 or 140 Modoc...been there and proven its up to the test!!! Real 3:2 1 cut on impact...and now improved!!!
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For those of you with experience in Africa, do you consider a 3-blade head to be out of the question?
I'll be hunting plains game in Limpopo this August and planned to use 29" 2018s with 100 grain broadhead adapters and Wensel Woodsmans. These will be shot from a longbow, pulling about 54# at my 27" draw.
Does this set up sound adequate? Or, would you suggest a 2-blade with the modest poundage I'll be shooting?
Thanks,
Ron