Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Dark Continent => Topic started by: SilentT on March 12, 2007, 04:08:00 PM
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Just have a quick question for everyone. It's probably been asked before but please give me a shot.
I'm taking my Black Widow SAIII (58@28) over to Africa this summer. I have already bumped my arrow weight up with weight tubes (about 540 grains) figuring a 125 grain head. Any suggestions on what head to shoot? I am currently strongly looking at a Magnus Stinger but any other suggestions would be great. Even a heavier broadhead suggestion would be fine. I've been playing with a 145 field point and it seems to fly well. At any rate, any suggestions on a good africa broadhead? Thanks
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I used a 2 blade eclipse over there. However, many people have done fine with 3 blade heads.
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And one more thing, ANY positive response is appreciated. I'm not trying to start a broadhead debate here, just get a few options. Thanks
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I built up some high FOC carbons to 670 grain for my Morrison recurve (57#). I'll be taking them to Africa in August. Following Bob's instructions I started with beman mfx classics 400, cut them to my length, used a 100 grain brass HIT insert then topped it off with 125 grain steel insert and 125 grain grizzly. 125 grain WW or any other combination of insert and bh to get my bh to 250 would have done the job also. These fly very well out of my bow.
I chose the grizzly/steel insert combo becuase I've heard good things about the grizzly heads and wanted to use a two blade for this trip. Recommend reading the Ashby reports for more information on this topic.
Good luck.
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Any 2 blade like Magnus or Zwickey is the way to go. Everyone that I've talked to about this (that have hunted Africa)has said to stay away from any other type of broadhead.
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Any good 2 blade head will do, my personel preferance would be to go as wide as possible. If you are hunting plains game penetration shouldn't be an issue. Also the Eclipse or Zephyr four blades would be good also. The bleeder sheers right off if bone is hit and doesn't impede penetration. You want all of the cut you can get. A 4 blade Zephyr Sausquatch would be the cats meow. I don't know about Magnus bleeder blades. Actually sitting here thinking about it I wouldn't hesitate to use Snuffers in Africa on plains game. Now remember I have a total of 1 trip and 6 animals to base this on so I wouldn't take it as gospel. Paul Brunner who has been there a lot uses only Magnus I's for plains game. Accuracy is the most important thing, your shots should all be under 20 yards and broadside or slightly quartering away so if you stick half of your arrow through the critter in the right spot you will be good. Shoot them on the horizontal midline straight up the front leg for a broadside shot. Most stuff over there if it is broadside and you shoot it just behind the shoulder crease it will be a liver shot. Other thing to think of is that if you are in a pit blind and the animal is 10 yards away you will be shooting up at it which is different from what most people are used to. Joseph
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i sell Silver Flames so take this for what it is . if i am ging to Africa and speding all that money i would want the best points avcailable and they are also one of the most expensive .
i have had quite a few customers go to Africa and as soon as they get back contact me fore more broadheads .
i am a great believer in heavy weight forward in Carbon arrows so 100 gr brass insert and 180 to 210 gr broadhead and maybe more weight forward .in Africa if you draw blood you bought it so i want something that if i screw up a shot you will still get the penetration .
all this being said i would be probably shooting woodies at 700+ grains out of a bow i draw to 53#.
i saw thei pics of joseph"s animals and he did real good :) --- herb
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I have taken a fair ammount of Plains game and have had excellant results with the Simmons heads , I also shot a few animals with the Wensel Woodsmen that impressed me , I still believe that almost any quality head that's SHARP and put in the RIGHT place will do the job , my thoughts , Fred
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Hands down, the Magnus 135 grain two blade! I've been 14 times and it's all come down to one broadhead for me.
Too Short (Paul Brunner)
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I remember Larry D. Jones used 597gr. carbon arrows out of a 60#@28" recurve. He got his arrows bareshafted perfectly and used Rocky Mountain Titanium 125 grain broadheads, a replaceable 3 blade head. He got great penetration and results. Never been to Africa on a hunting trip, but my point is that if you bareshaft your arrows perfectly, I think you'll be fine with most any good cut on contact head. I'd use whatever gave me the most confidence if it were me.
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Most cut on contact style heads will do Ok for plains game as long as you don't encounter any big bones. Still, it is good to have some insurance with a strong, quality head. Blood trails aren't really an issue as the trackers don't usually need them. You've just gotta get it killed! I used grizzlies last time...will be using Eclipse this trip. You wouldn't go wrong with modified tip Wensel Woodsmans, STOS, silver flames....or probably a big Magnus 1 (I hate to agree with Pauly B). You might consider pushing your arrow weight up just a tad, though. I would feel more comfortable with something in the 6 or 700's when things go "less than perfect," and bone is encountered. Best of luck. Brady
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Never been to Africa, one day soon though. But, I have seen the stinger in action and I would stay away from that head on any animal. I hunted with a guy that was using them in Texas last year and he shot a deer and a ram with them and the result was terrible. The heads disentegrated he never found the Ram and when he found the deer he had to put two more arrow in it. Course some of his problem was shot placement but the head is no good in my opinion. Now do not blast me, it is jus my opinion on the results I have seen with this head. I would not use them.
Danny
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I used the Eclipse 125 with excellent results from a 58# recurve, shooting 600gr arrows. I know of a Stinger that tore all to pieces on a little Sitka black-tail deer. Not a head I'll be trying, especially in Africa.
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Like the add says....... The sun never sets on a Zwickey :) two blade that is, also the magnus has served me well lately. As Previously indicated most anything that is razor sharp will get the job done if everything is right.... but what about the times things don't work out that way........
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I have limited experience with broadhead performance but I had excellent results with Eclipse 145 grain 2 blade on a 660 grain arrow on six animals in 2006. Complete penetration of both shoulders or complete pass through shots on all. I observed some of the Green razorheads roll back into a 'j' as a relult of hits on the shoulder blade of a couple of Gemsbuck.
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i would think the new simmions tree shark would do good. 165 grains and a 2 1/4 inch cut. cut a mean hole on deer.
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Never been to Africa but my thoughts are you would want a two blade head if you are only shooting an arrow in the 540 grain range.
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What about the Muzzy Phantom SS?
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That Magnus Stinger episode in Texas sounds like maybe the result of some very early heads that were too brittle. I have read several tests on this head and it is one of the best out there. Magnus, Zwickey, Eclipse, Wensel, Grizzly, etc would all be good. Tune your arrow to perfection, wait for a gimme shot and you will have happy results!
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According to German Kinetics, the Silverflame broadheads are the best. Anyone have a thought on these? I mean, for the price, they ought to be the VERY best! I have a hard time giving that much money for a broadhead unless it's worth it.
Jeff
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I will be taking a half dozen 150 gr. Silverflames with me to Africa this June. They a good tough looking blade and really are super sharp. I am looking forward to giving them a good test. I have taken African game with Magnus two blade, Montec G5, Snuffers, and RazorCaps and Wensel Woodsman. All served me well.
Cheers from Alaska
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Jeff
they really are the best . Marcus has never said they are the best but i have .i sold 39 silver Flames to a man going for Cape Buff and he was testing broadheads . his thoughts were if you are after something that wants to kill you and paying for a trip to Africa you should use the best broadhead around . he tested all kinds of heads and sent me a spread sheet of his results .it amazed me that he had crap written after some of the top brands ,they were as much as 20 gr difference in the heads in the same package , some wern't sharp out of the package some cme apart on impact with the shoulder blade of a cow he was shhoting at .
he got his Cape Buff with a Silver Flame and the PH's he had asked him to leave all the 180 gr. he had with him as they were really impressed .
i have way to many repeat customers for this to be a poor product --- herb
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So how does someone get ONE of these heads to test, shoot, and otherwise evaluate? Never let it be said that a short guy can't be open minded!
Doc...why would you hate to agree with "Pauly B"? Agreeing with me means that you are SMART!
Disagreeing means STUPIT! he, he, he!
TOOOOOOOOO SHOOOOOORRRRRTTTTTTT
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You can get a test kit that has one each of 125, 150, and 180 grain. Personally I like the 210 grain. Nice solid blade with no vents. My wife will be shooting the 100 grain version at plains game out of her mechanical contraption.
But I'm also an open minded short guy that shoots a Morrison...I have grizzly 160s and 125s, woodsmans, and Magnus 135s that I glue on to various size adapters for my carbon shafts.
The heaviest I can get my arrows with a 210 Silver Flame is 630 grains without adding weight inside the arrow. I can get to 670-680 grains with the grizzly 160s and the Magnus 135s. I agree that the Silver Flames are great, well made, super-scary sharp out of the box ( I've bought my share from Marcus, Herb and Vince). Even Dr. Ashby gives the Silver Flames the #1 rating for it's class...screw in replaceable blade broadhead.
But I can also take a grizz 160 and turn it into a 260 to 285 grain screw in, sharpen it and modify it as directed by the good Doctor, and come up with a deadly sharp broadhead. I can also turn a Magnus 135 into a 260 grain screw in and have a deadly sharp broadhead.
Definately more than one way to skin this cat and with my shaft choice the heavier FOC I can get with either the grizz or the magnus equals better arrow flight and deeper penetration than with the lighter variant of my arrows.
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My wife and I hunted in South Africa for 10 days last June. I had excellent results with Wensel Woodsmans, she had great results with Razorcaps. Either of these are deep penetrating 3 blade heads with awesome wound channels. The 3:1 blade angle is the best! I'll stand by these over any 2 blade head.
I was shooting a 600 grain carbon arrow from a 65# Brackenbury bow
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A friend of mine PH tested Zwikey with a 90 lbs L.B. on a fresh rifle killed buff. All was going well until he hit a rib. The Zwikey broadhed bend 90 °
For him, (and me) best broadhead are STOS without any compromise :pray:
Nine.......
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I have seen SEVERAL STOS heads curl up on bone like an elf shoe! I do think they are a good head, but I wouldn't use anything, but the 160 grain and then still take off the very tip. I think a head like the STOS, but with thicker steel to make it 190 grain or so would be the perfect head. I personally wouldn't even consider using a head for the biggest animals that weighs less than 160 grains and heavier is better. Using heavy arrows I need a heavy head to balance them and I would rather have the weight making for a stronger head, than just as weight.
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Regarding the Silver Flame head; I've always been proud of my ability to sharpen a broadhead and can get most sharp enough to shave hair. When I bought a tuning pack of the Silver Flames last fall I learned what sharp really was; these things are scary sharp! By that I mean you're scared to handle them without leather gloves and even then you worry you might drop one on your foot and cut off your big toe! The hair seems to jump off the skin just getting the head close. The most impressive thing is the ability of the head to maintain an edge. I shot one test head into a foam broadhead target about 10 times with my longbow then screwed into one of my compound arrows and took a half dozen shots with a 560 grain arrow traveling at 265 FPS. After about 18 shots between both bows the Silver Flame was still sharp enough to cut hair. Although I wouldn't say it was shaving sharp at this point it would still do the job it was intended for. I've never seen a head that would maintain an edge like this. I was extremely impressed and I have to believe this head would be deadly on all game. I bought my tuning pack last year after the seasons were over so I haven't had the opportunity to shoot an animal but that day will soon be here and this head will be in my quiver for my next trip to Africa in 2009.
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I was final testing 18 hunting arrows for an upcoming trip I used one 180 Silver Flame on all the shafts, shooting each 1-3 times into a foam taget. When done I unscewed the head to put it back in the case they come in as I think they are TOO SHARP to transport any other way. that head was still so sharp I had to mark it as a "practice" with a waterproof marker. And, by the way, Herb is a good guy to do business with.
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I've only hunted Africa with modern gear, but I've always used Zwickey 2 blade heads. I've used them across the gamut of species from cape buff to duikers.
They're tough, fly well and easy to sharped.
Just my two cents
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First off no great experience in BHs pretty set in my ways. But Stuart at Melorani said he loved seeing a bg snuffer on the end of an arrow. I shot muzzys.
Later
J
shoot phantoms now and like em.
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Really thiink the phantom is a 4 blade STOS
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I bought a dozen 1-1/8" cut to take with me to Africa this summer. I liked them so well I bought a dozen 1-7/8" heads to hunt with here in Texas.
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MAGNUS! I would highly recommend the 135 grain, wide Magnus! DO NOT USE BLEEDER BLADES...USE TWO BLADE ONLY!
I have hunted there 16 times since 1978 and have spent a total time hunting of 16 months between all my trips. Trust me...I know whereof I speak! Get your arrow weight up to at least 600 grains, including head, and go with the wide Magnus.
If you have other questions you would like to ask, just email me at [email protected] and I would be happy to offer whatever help I can.
Too Short (Paul Brunner)
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i agree with paul on the 135gr magnus, very good head for plains game!
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Dang, that is so nice when someone agrees with me. I have been doing "Honey-do" chores all day with my wife and NO ONE has agreed with me yet today. Tradtusker, THANK YOU!!!!!!
Too F. Short
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Paul:
I almost stopped by this morning taking my son to the airport, but figured you would be hunting with the rut in full swing.
Bob
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Ha! Color me no buck tags left! Just hunting does now with a new (gorgeous)self bow and stone points. I went out this morning, but there was 10 inches of snow and it was coming down like crazy...no deer moving. Maybe this afternoon.
I did grunt in a super 5 x 5 yesterday...came right to a mock scrape and ripped it up. There he was broadside at 15 yards, no clue I was there, and I couldn't take him.
They should give short bowhunters 12 buck tags here in Montana. We deserve it for taking all the flack about being perfect (short).
Hasta la Pasta
Too Short
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For the utmost in confidence, The Ashby reports are all you need for this question in my opinion. I like science when its avialable not anecdotal evidence personally. I havnt looked around much but I cant imagine anyone has shot more game and taken anywhere near the scientific and thorough approach at analyzing broadheads that he has. If they did they would probably end up with the same results anyway. THE ASHBY REPORTS RIGHT HERE ON TRADGANG!
Have a great trip. I envy you.
Jeff