Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Dark Continent => Topic started by: Jarrod Feiner on August 01, 2007, 12:13:00 AM
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Ok, I'll be bugging you guys for the next 10 months, or until I leave for my first bowhunt in Africa. So please bear with me....
Please tell me about Johannesburg: safety, hotels, sites? Or if it's better to just get the heak out of the place.
I have heard the whole spectrum of answers, that it's like New York City on steroids, to a recent opinion that it's a city made up of peace loving hippies. This said, I'm interested in what you fellas think.
Many thanks-
J
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Jarrod,
Bennie is picking us up at the airport and taking us out to his place outside of Johannesburg for our first night. We're basically getting the heck out of the city and heading for Pilanesburg the next couple of days before heading to Vissers.
I've never been there before so I don't know first hand...but I've heard there is a lot of theft and to keep your eyes on your gear. I've also heard that there are some great places to stay and eat and see.
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BTH, Thanks.
"Keep an eye on your gear", yes. And I suppose limit your gear so it's easier to keep track of.
It sure seems like they wisk you away and get you out of dodge. Must be some logic to it.
The next 10 months are going to kill me...I can't wait.
Stay well.
J
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Jarrod -- I realize this is a repeat for you, but others may be interested. I can highly recommend the Afton Guest House ([email protected]) in Joburg if you want to lie up for day or more to recover from the flight and be in prime condition for your hunt. We always stay a couple days going and coming to relax, tour and do a little shopping. Louis (the proprietor) will meet you at the airport, help you with any luggage or custom problems, and take you to the guesthouse about 10 minutes away from the airport. They provide a nice breakfast and will provide evening transportation to/from one of three good nearby restaurants in the evening. They will also take you back to the airport after your hunt. These services are all included in your room rate. On the trip I just returned from (15 days ago) the room rate for my wife and I was $100 (a very nice room at that). About 99 percent of the folks who stay at the Afton House are hunters going or coming from all over Africa. Many outfitters/PHs pick up their clients there. It is a heck of a lot of fun to meet all the people and talk about their hunts. They can also arrange tours and will take you to the markets. If you get a chance, go to Cambanos Curio Centre for a very good variety of gifts to bring home. Also, if you are interested in a classic Africa hiking/hunting boot, get a pair of Courteney Cape Buffalo boots at Gordon's Footwear. I have two pair of Courteney boots one Cape Buffalo and one Kudu.
Cheers from Alaska
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The most dangerous place for travellers will most likely be the airport itself. There are many groups of criminals that specialise in stealing specific items in the terminals. The most sought after things are laptops. Security at the airport is fairly good but it would be unwise to be too obvious with large amounts of cash. It is best not to hang around in any quiet, unlit areas. There is currently a very extensive construction project underway there in preparation for the 2010 soccer world cup, so it is best to be alert at all times.
The east rand area, where the airport is, is not a war zone. There are dangerous areas in Johannesburg, but the average PH is far too smart to take his clients to these places. I have not encountered any hippies, but it theoretically possible that they could exist in some of the wealthier neighbourhoods where the parents pay for the electrified fence on top of the 8 foot wall, security alarms and armed reaction.
By and large everyone in the industry will take good care of clients from overseas. There are rules and regulations in place to protect foreign visitors. One of these is that any client must be fetched at the airport. The only thing that is genuinely troubling thing in Johannesburg is the traffic and in particular the minibus taxis that zoom around like maniacs.
Hunting the bush veldt will be an unforgettable experience. Almost addictive you could say.
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I second what TRADALASKA said. The Afton House is the way to go all the way. Very affordable and the assistance they provide at the airport you can't put a price on.
As far as JoBurg goes, it's not as bad as people say as long as you are with someone you can trust, like Louis.
We just returned Sunday, and I must say that the city is definately improving.
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Tradalaska, Thanks again--and always. Bushwood, Thanks for the second.
S Meyer, Thanks for the specific security information. It sounds like if you use common sense you should be OK...? Glad to hear that the city is improving.
Thanks everyone-
Jarrod
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Last September when I arrived in JoBurg, I patiently held back and waited for my luggage to circle around to me. I found one bag and then got impatient and walked around to where the luggage came into the building. I was stunned to see someone rolling a cart away with 4 bags on it, one of which was mine. I grabbed it up in a hurry. Be aggressive when collecting your luggage. Also, South Africa has had 10,000 murders in the last six years, most of those in the bigger cities. As stated already, meet your outfitter at the airport and you will be fine.
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Ah, you must be going to Vissers if Bennie is picking you guys up. He's a great guy. Last year when I went, I never had a chance to leave the airport. Bennie was there to pick me up immediately. Also, don't let anyone else touch your luggage unless you don't mind tipping everyone. Every person that even touches your luggage will expect a tip. I had one guy that wanted a tip because he opened the bathroom door on the way out. He held out his hand right after he got done peeing and wanted some cash!
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RL, I'm glad I don't have that guy's nerve in my tooth. It's amazing how bold people are.
Jonsimoneau, The lesson for me is to bring a slew of $1 bills. I'd like to get paid for taking a leak too...funny to think that the people want to get paid for being polite--ala opening doors...et cetera.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge
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The guy with your bag off of the carousel would have to explain it at customs, unless he just walks through the 'nothing to declare' channel and has a mate to usher him through, it happens. Be alert and watch out for your bags all the time. Don't carry lots of stuff in public and don't wave cash if you want to keep any. Not all SA is ugly and criminal but go about with a local to keep you out of dodgey areas, Joburg is a fun city if you do it right!
You are not coming here for another city but if you have extra time there is lots to do and see.I
don't tip for good manners,what a cheek! We have many, many economic refugees from up north and a desperate person will ask a tip for anything!
Chrisg
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Chrisg, Thanks very much for responding. I really appreciate the local's perspective.
In many ways, I suppose, getting around Johannesburg is much like getting around a big city in the US (I live in the shadow of San Francisco): use your common sense, be aware of those who are around you, don't put yourself in a questionable situation, and have a good time.
Thanks very much for the reply.
J
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The airport employees are supposed to wear a large security pass. Yellow if remember correctly. There are porters employed by the airport to help with baggage and they will all have such a pass. The security people usually wear long black coats over as a kind of uniform. If someone does not have an ID and they are acting friendly they may be up to something. The airport staff is not allowed to ask for tips.
Like Chrisg says, Joburg can be fun. There is a nice German style bar; actually, pub and grill, close the airport. I can’t remember the name just now. Just stay out of Hillbrow because it is dangerous and avoid Steeldale because the people there aren’t human anymore, it’s the fumes from the cement factory and steel mill and all.
Cheers Stefan
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Yeah Joburg, LA, Paris, Rio everyone has a scam somewhere. Hmm, Hillbrow/Steeldale, nice combo and you could add a few more too eh? :scared: Your outfitter should be able to help but if he is not from Jozi he should find someone who can guide you, it's not a war zone and there are plenty of good registered city tourist guides who can take you on tours. Their knowledge is worth the money. Just be smart like they all say. I've grown up here and survived more years than I'd like to admit, but then I got smacked by a Dagha bull when I was guiding in the bush, I still like the bush though! Wierd aren't we?
Please come!
Chrisg :biglaugh:
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Hillbrow/Steeldale: If my guide drives through these areas I'll remember to duck behind the windshield. :scared:
S Meyer and Chrisg, Thanks for the local knowledge. Could you give me a few places not to miss in the Joburg area?
I'd like to stay AWAY from the tourist traps: you know, places that sell souviners (crap) with the Joburg version of "I left my heart in San Francisco", or the ever popular, "Escaped Alcatraz Convict" tee-shirts and hats that I see nearly every SF tourists wearing in my area. :rolleyes:
Many thanks-
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Hello Jarod,
Been offline for a bit. Joburg and what to do. This is a long reply. It depends on your time and interests. We do have some big malls and while I am sure you've seen a few they do offer the advantage of one-stop shopping and restaurants and relatively safe parking. You literally can get almost anything, a good example is Sandton City/Nelson Mandela Square interesting and glitsy incredible shops, v European feel. Pricey and not African, others are Eastgate, Cresta, The Mall in Rosebank Fourways Mall. Restaurants are all over the city but Greenside,Parkhurst and Melville have huge choice and creative, fabulous food.Parkhurst has antique shops. Melville is a wellknown club and bar area with some good eateries too, a bit of a tourist trap, go with a guide.
Culture and history, The University of Witwatersrand has good galleries and if the ancient past interests you, visit 'The Origins centre'-you can get your DNA tested to see if you really came from Africa! Goldreef city is themed museum built on an old original mine working with 'extra' tourist stuff, not great but interesting for the history. History of a grimmer kind is on show just half a mile away at the Apartheid Museum, this is a sombre look at our recent ugly past and an effective way to get a take on the background to the present, do this one and the Soweto shebeen stayover thing together and you will have a good handle on SA. Out of town to the West is the Cradle of Humankind, 30% of all hominid fossils have come from this area. If you like archaeology this is nirvana, there are as many as fifteen sites being excavated, in the middle of the area is the Sterkfontein Caves and nearby the impressive Maropeng museum. Maropeng is fabulous an interactive museum, not as detailed as the Smithsonian but set on top of ancient hills and slap bang in the centre of a phenomenally rich in historical artifacts, battle sites and lovely countryside. Did I mention restaurants again? All through the surrounding hills are shops, restaurants rustic hotels and farms. Over the hill is Magaliesberg, a pretty village with some wonderful hotels, Mount Grace being the best of them, has stargazing evenings, a spa, incredible gardens and amazing, amazing food. Very pretty in the summer and still nice in the winter. Soweto is south and west of the city and worth a visit on a tour or a stay over at a shebeen, this is very interesting and lots of fun, best organised through an agent.
We also have a world class Philomonic Orchestra, The JPO. Many golf courses and with an hour's drive hundreds of country retreats etc, but of course you will be here to hunt so you will have to be choosy.
nuff sed
chrisg
Heard enough?
Chrisg :)
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Chrisg, Thanks very, very much for the information.
"Relatively safe parking". I laughed my a$$ off when I read this: I was told by a guide that hunting Kodiak brown bears is "relatively safe".
It's good to know there are things like malls in case I forget something in my packing. Too, Maropeng sounds like a great way to spend a morning.
I'm going to check on line to see if any of the places have websites.
Many thanks-
Jarrod
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You know what 'relatively safe' means? "If it's not me or my relatives, then it's safe!" :) Kodiak bears are not nice people from what I can see. Your big worry is losing the car or being mugged at or near your car, most lots have security and if you park in open, lit areas it's fine. I will try to get more websites and addys. The choices revolve around time and your interest areas. We really enjoy Maropeng and the hills around there, lots of stuf to do and see, I lived out there for a while, incredible area. Maropeng also has a cool environmentally friendly hotel, it's far out of town though so you better not need a toothbrush or such like!
chrisg
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Thanks for the info. I figure we'll be in Joburg for a day or so--to recouperate from the flight--so this info is greatly appreciated.
Stay well.
Jarrod
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What a HUGE change there in 20 years, I went through Jo'berg in 1979 and the airport was very quiet, organized and orderly, in 99 I went back and what a shock. I was told to not even go to the mens room by yourself. Keep a close eye on your stuff and be very careful if you go to the atm. The city didn't improve either. I have read that now it is among the most dangerous big cities in the world and number one for rape. What a shame.
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Rick,
Yuck. Thanks for the note. I was hoping the entire of the criminal element had repented, and was keeping busy spending their days helping old ladies across the street. Well, maybe, just maybe, this will come to pass by the time I go in 08....
I can hope. :saywhat:
J
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What Rick says is true but like the weather it's never exactly like the forecast on the day. The old 'Jan Smuts Airport' of 1979 had about 500 000 people go through a year, maybe 800 000. We are looking at 14 million per year within the next four years! This number includes travellers from within the country,a big arguement for another airport entirely. Totally different situation, hence the huge ongoing building projects. This time it's serious. You'd be amazed at the change in the city from 99 to 2007, you'd hardly know the airport for one.
As for the crime stats, it is almost worse than that in certain areas. The minibus drivers have been mentioned. Road deaths and the national murder rate are way up there. The thing is there are pockets of very bad crime and other areas that are relatively safe or they have more money for security, the challenge is for a foreigner to identify the safe areas. That's why you go with a local. I once took a short cut through Washington DC and was told I was lucky to get out alive? Only three streets north of Pennsylvania ave? Hard to know over there. Apparently that's where the drug dealers hung out.
The good news is that the government, metro authorities, business and police are aware of the problem and are recruiting in large numbers and their training is much improved, I was told this by an ex cop- specialist tactical firearm trainer now working in private sector. We certainly see lots more of them. We await the outcome with more than a little interest!The massive building drive is employing big numbers of people and taking them out of the poverty-driven crime cycle. The snag is the flood of destitute refugees from up north.
Don't be put off but do like everyone says, get with a good local guide or demand that your outfitter finds you one, don't do it on your own it wastes time.Phew!
Chrisg
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Chrisg,
I think I know the street in DC that you were on., I remember thinking--wishing--that some of our politicians would get a flat tire on the street.
For sure, I'll not be going for a walk by myself. That or I'll wear a big t-shirt that says, "Dope" on it.
Thanks again. And again.
Jarrod
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I lived in Kempton Park a long time and can only tell you the same as the other Saffas its not that bad, just think what you do and dont advertise what you have. The worst is at the airport but try and take as few bags as possible, makes it easier to watch.
If you go to Joburgh dont go on your own try and stay with a group.
Eastgate is a good shopping centre and Sandton has a big one and lots of restuarants.
About 45 min away is Fourways - shopping and a big casino complex.
If you go to eat in Kempton park go to a Italian restuarant called LaGondola - the best seafood pizza you will ever have. (Maybe 5min away)
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Jarrod,
I go back to SA every year, and am going back this summer again. In the last 4 years I've been back 5 times. I know Jo'burg airport quite well, and have spent quite a bit of time in the city. So I'll try give you the best advice I can! Having come from Africa myself, I'd advise that you don't try go around the city on your own. Make sure you go with a local guide that knows the area so as not to get yourself in a situation that you don't want to be! If you do this, you should be absolutely fine, and have a good time.
At the airport, one thing I would advise, that has been mentioned before, is that you try and fit all your gear into 1 bag if possible. I find the baggage information desk at JHB airport usless, so the fewer checked bags you have the better! I don't believe that they can't tell you what you need to know and help you, I believe it's just that they are often lazy, and their service can be pretty shocking at times. Last year when I went, I took a compound in a hard case sepperate to my gear bag. The bowcase never came thru on the belt, so I went to the desk, and the guy said that he couldn't even tell me if the bag left my connection, let alone whether it was in SA or not! :scared: Needless to say, I started to loose my sense of humour pretty quick, and he suddenly received the ability to do his job properly, and found it! So, if you can fit all your gear into one bag, that is what I believe to be best! Obviously, if you are taking 2 bows along, it's better to have them seperate incase one does get lost or damaged. I only take one bow, and from my experience, I prefer to have everything in 1 bag that is less likely to get lost. It also makes it easier for you to move around, and watch all your gear if you only have 1 bag.
So to sum it up, I think if you use common sense, and stay in a group, you should be fine and have a great trip! I think that's all I can think of. If there's anything else I think of, I'll chime in and let you know. I hope you have a great, successful trip! Shoot straight!
Nigel :bigsmyl: :campfire: :D ;)
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We stayed at the Emperors Palace in Joberg for a week the last time I was there. It had stores and several restaurants in the same well guarded complex. I had no concerns leaving my wife there when I was away on business. We also had the hotel arrange a car and driver a couple of days and visited the malls and the big flea markets. I never felt uncomfortable and everyone treated us well. I figure their crooks are like ours and they are lurking around looking for a easy mark. Not likly to try to take on a grown man.
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I think our standards of “easy target” may be a little different. An armored car with four armed guards is a easy target in South Africa. We don’t really have muggers that wok alone and steal a wallet here and there. There are usually a few working together. They WILL be armed. A gang might have a mix of handguns and AK’s. Many will also have visited a witch docket for some medicine to make them impervious to bullets. Emperors Palace is most likely safe. I know some of the security people there and they know what they are doing. It is however best for a foreign visitor not to go places alone if they are not familiar with the city.
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its a tricky place but if your not stupid about things and have a bit of street sence than you will be fine..
like nigel said above he has traveled back and forth from the uk to joburg loads of times...and he goes by himself!!! i think he made the first trip when he was 14 years old.
i also travel by myself there but when i go i make dam sure i dont look like a tourist, no fanny bags, no cameras hanging of you..etc
just having 1 main bage checked in and one hand luagage bag is good advise.. joburg are unbelievebly good at loosing luagage, get to the baggage collecting as quike as you can and stand at the front, to avoide some little guy walking off with your bag.
have a great trip its an amazing place! :thumbsup:
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There you have it! Here's a twist, my stepson went off to Australia last week, departure was havoc, yup it's getting worse, a scrum. Bag duly packed, shrink wrapped and into the indicated queue, 40 minutes later nooo, it's not this queue actually, it's thaat one along the line of counters. Ok off we go, well he got onto his flight. 36hrs later we got an sms from Melbourne, no bag! Guess what? It was lost in Oz in internal link flight! Difference is he got it delivered to his door 24 hrs later in one piece. Travel.. it's a gas!
No wonder many travel books are comedies
:biglaugh:
chrisg
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Hey Trad, I can only agree with you on that one, jeans and t-shirt, old backpack that holds all, cat shoes or boots and nothing hanging around like fanny packs or cameras. Any of the other attatchments and you are spotted.
If the hangers-around approuch you, you just look and push past them and they know and leave you alone. As Chrisg said they are looking for easy targets.
In all I have traveled to and from Sa loads of times and have never lost baggage in SA, touch wood.
The main thing as you land is one bag to look for, you get it and get out, when you have to wait for the other one you get distracted.
The other thing I always do is once you clear customs before you get out of the customs area put all you papers and passports away and from sight, nothing gives a tourist away like a different colour passport and him holding papers and looking lost...
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Thanks for the continued information everyone-
J