Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Dark Continent => Topic started by: elktalker on January 02, 2010, 11:32:00 AM
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First of all I hope its OK to post this in the dark continent section of the forum. I thought you guys going after big safari criders might be able to help.
I'm making arrows and so far no luck even the safari sticks are to week. Next try will be a 1916 inside a 2219. I've never double shafted before, so any pointers? I want to be in the 900-1000 grn. range.
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what you hunting... Elephant?
prob going to have to double up the shafts to get the spine you need.
with double shaft and heavy heads you'l easily get over 1000grs. you could also consided double shafting with aluminium over carbon, like a thin beman mfx inside a 2016.
2016 will fit over the 300 spine beman MFX
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(what you hunting... Elephant?)
not shure yet, but I'll be ready, no matter how big. :thumbsup:
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I was thinking you may be hunting freight trains? double lung em through the boilers!
Have no idea to help you out - but had to check out a 100# recurve thread!
Best of hunting,
J
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You will probably have to try different shaft combo's to get the one that works. The easiest way I've figured would be to put all the shaft combo,s together (slip fit) to check on a spine tester and rate from weakest to stiffest. Pick your broadhead/point weight.(300 gr?) Pick a combo in the middle, make up a fletched and an unfletched arrow and see where you are in spine. Once you find one close tune like any other shafts. Most of the aluminum combos will give you a 600 to 700 raw shaft weight, add point,nock,fletch,cap/wrap,crest and you should make weight pretty easy.
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I had pretty good luck with a heratage 350 shaft with a beaman flash inside of it from a 95# Longbow
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arrow dynamics big game
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FWIW, I recall that Monty Brown used a 1500grn solid fiberglass bowfishing arrow for his Cape Buf hunt that was published in TBM back around 2000. I think he said he was using an 85# longbow.
Don't know if he's available via TG or email, but heavy bow shooters like he, Dr. Ashby and Denny Sturgis, both of whom I've seen posts from on TG, would probably have some good advice on this.
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Hello,
you can foot with epoxy glue a gold tip entrada spine .300 inside a 2114 shaft.This gives you a strong shaft, diam. 21 and around 18.5 GPI and static spine should be around 170#. Cost around $10 to $12.
If too stiff, you can use a carbon express maxima 3D spine .340 inside the 2114 for same shaft weight but static spine around 155#. But more expensive.
A little weaker is carbon ICS 400 inside the 2114 for a 140# spine.
All these carbon shafts fit perfectly inside the 2114 and have quite the same weight.
With these custom shafts you can add up to 450+ grain in front and get high Front of Center for a 1000 gr arrow.
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Why dont you just shoot wood shafts? Like the kind used for 100 plus pound english war bows!
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there's a big difference required in spine when shooting a bow with no shelf (English longbow) compared to the modern center cut recurves.
It would be hard to find a wooden arrow that would be stiff enough to shoot out of a 100Lb recurve from my experience.
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I got my 100# mojo wisper stik in the mail monday, I can only get it to 26" so far. But at that draw a 1916 in a 2219 flys real good and they will do until I can pull it back to a full draw of 28".
Thanks to all who helped in finding corect spine. The arrows I made rattle just a little, should I be gluing the shafts together?
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hybridbow hunter, Great info on spine. How are you figuring that out? What would the numbers be on my 1916/2219? Its cut to 29" With 200 grain tip.
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lets see some pic's of your bow Darren
at that weight its probably compressing your chest a bit.
keep us updated
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Can do.
(http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo292/2008dmaxguy/DSC01180.jpg)
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Darren...I want one!
and i would'nt mind one of those bows either :thumbsup:
Great Bull! Congrats
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(http://i385.photobucket.com/albums/oo292/2008dmaxguy/DSC01182.jpg)
JD of wisperstik bows makes a nice bow. this one was made for marlon a fellow tradganger. it missed weight so i bought it. Marlon curently has a 150#-160# on order.
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I was wondering if it was One of Marlons bows
i think he's shooting a 146lber Wisperstick right now.
Can i borrow it if i ever go hunt Elephant? :D
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No problem I'll do the video. :biglaugh:
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How in the WORLD do you guys pull back a 100lb bow?? I can't even IMAGINE shooting something over 70lbs in a long bow or a recurve!! I would have to practice for ten years to get to that weight!! lol
Good luck on your 100lber!!
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Yes it's one of the bow that didn't hit the weight. I got done ordering another from him a little higher poundage 160#. Marlon
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Darren,
for 1916/2219 you will get a static spine around 140#, but very heavy weight around 24 GPI.
To assess the static spine when doing external footing you just have to add the static spine of the two shafts you use.
Laurent
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Wow, Those are some thick limbs.My arms hurt just looking at it.
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Wow!
I can pull that ;) If I put it under my feet and stand up! Not very conducive to hunting though. Sorry I saw 100# and said UH What :eek: Beautiful Bow!
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What weight were you shooting before you moved up to the 100 pounder?
Lucas
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I am impressed by anyone who can shoot a 100# bow, and I am in awe of anyone who can shoot one in excess of 150#. I just can't imagine why a bow that heavy would be necessary or even desirable for hunting. Maybe the 100# for elephant, rhino hippo or giraffe, but 160#? No such thing as overkill, but if a bow is too heavy to be able to get to full draw, is it really the bow you want to be using under real life hunting conditions? Those sound like the old English war bows for casting very heavy arrows long distances. I'm not trying to discourage anyone, I'm just blown away with the thought of actually hunting with those heavy bows that are well over 100#.
Allan
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If your strong enough to do it, why not! The only limit is the one your body and your bowyer place upon you. The argument that you don't need it is as pointless as many of the oft repeated threads on here. Double shafting will easily get you where you want to go for arrows.
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Not that I've seem many 100# bows, but that is a much more graceful looking bow than I was expecting. Good luck with it.
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Originally posted by amar911:
I am impressed by anyone who can shoot a 100# bow, and I am in awe of anyone who can shoot one in excess of 150#. I just can't imagine why a bow that heavy would be necessary or even desirable for hunting. Maybe the 100# for elephant, rhino hippo or giraffe, but 160#? No such thing as overkill, but if a bow is too heavy to be able to get to full draw, is it really the bow you want to be using under real life hunting conditions? Those sound like the old English war bows for casting very heavy arrows long distances. I'm not trying to discourage anyone, I'm just blown away with the thought of actually hunting with those heavy bows that are well over 100#.
Allan
if you have the back for it heavy bows are fun. We are all just a bunch of big kids playing in the woods. I figure, play with what ever toy makes you happy
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o i forgot....pretty bow
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heavy bows are fun but heavy for me is 75-80lbs and 75lbs max is about all im comfortable with, im sure with some training i could shoot more but i have no need to for my hunting, so i dont.
all the more power to those who can though
i can just imagine my shoulder popping trying to get that thing back to full draw :scared: :D
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I am after Elephant next. How much speed will I gain going up from 83 to 100?
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im not sure Marty
are you going to increase arrow weight? by how much?
Bull or Cow elephant? Bulls are considerably bigger and thicker. I think you would be able to kill a cow with your current set-up or at lease with a small gain in weight without going to 100lbs.
what is your true draw length at 83lbs?
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Originally posted by Lucas K:
What weight were you shooting before you moved up to the 100 pounder?
Lucas
The 100# bow replaced a 75# whisper stik that I bought in the clasifieds, it broke during elk season this year. I called JD and he had this one at a discount price.
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Originally posted by BUFF:
I am after Elephant next. How much speed will I gain going up from 83 to 100?
I dont think that you gain a whole lot of speed if you stay at 10 grains per pound, but you gain a lot of thump.
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Originally posted by amar911:
I am impressed by anyone who can shoot a 100# bow, and I am in awe of anyone who can shoot one in excess of 150#. I just can't imagine why a bow that heavy would be necessary or even desirable for hunting. Maybe the 100# for elephant, rhino hippo or giraffe, but 160#? No such thing as overkill, but if a bow is too heavy to be able to get to full draw, is it really the bow you want to be using under real life hunting conditions? Those sound like the old English war bows for casting very heavy arrows long distances. I'm not trying to discourage anyone, I'm just blown away with the thought of actually hunting with those heavy bows that are well over 100#.
Allan
Call it a quest but I plan on mastering this bow. Im working on muscle training now. then accuracy and form. (why?)like Buff said, because I can. and Its fun. As for Marlons 160# his is for flight shooting, and he curently holds the national record. Im asuming he's getting the 160# to go for the world record. Once mastered I'll be elk hunting with mine untill I can afford to hunt something bigger.
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I'm impressed! :scared: :eek: The 160 pound bow for flight shooting makes sense, and a 100 pound bow for elephants makes sense too. I just don't have the physical capacity to pull a bow like that. I had to kill my elephant with a big caliber rifle, although I would rather have used a heavy bow. A 70 pound bow is near the maximum for me. I'm glad a 100 pound bow is not needed for elk. My elk bows are 55 to 60 pounds. You guys with strong upper bodies -- keep shooting the 100+ pound bows. The rest of us mortals will continue to be impressed.
Allan
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Allan, dont give me to much credit yet, its a work in progress, so far I can only get my finger tip to my chin I've got a couple of inches to go. If at any time I feel its hurting my ability to shoot my 65# hunting bow I'll stop. As for now I'm shooting better than I ever have, probably something to do with shooting a lot every day. I know some people think a 100# bow is krazy, but I think what ever a person does to keep shooting fun is profitable, and right now this is a lot of fun for me.
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sorry clicked wrong icon
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All for it Darren. Bad mad penetration coefficient for sure. Eat more spinach. That elk looks familiar. E-mailed.
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I have some GT 100+ that someone cut down to about 30 inches, I don't think I'm going to need those, there too short. I have some others I was shooting off of a 73lb Chastain/BearTakedown that are about 30 and a half. There bending ok with a bunch up front, 450 I think. I haven't shot it too much though. LOL. But I think one could make some really gnarly arrows with these by putting them inside what ever alunimum would fit on them.
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Heavy for me is 60#
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i was kinda wondering what trajectory was like at that poundage? pretty flat i imagine.
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''I've never double shafted before, so any pointers?''
certainly not! my woman would kill me if i even tried it. lol
on a serious note, i have a fiberglass backed longbow that's 80lbs, i can literally hit a pie plate at 2 yards! (yes 2!)
Phil
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WOW I can get 70# back to anchor but thats if my shoulder is in tip top shape!! cant imagine pullin 100#!!
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Wow! Can you say g-o-rilla!
Sorry, couldn't help it, but you're too far away to put me in a headlock! LOL
Seriously, I'm impressed. Maybe you should go after elephant, or Bigfoot. :)
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Originally posted by tradtusker:
heavy bows are fun but heavy for me is 75-80lbs and 75lbs max is about all im comfortable with, im sure with some training i could shoot more but i have no need to for my hunting, so i dont.
all the more power to those who can though
i can just imagine my shoulder popping trying to get that thing back to full draw :scared: :D
Actually Tusker your bow arm gets more were and tear than your pulling shoulder does. When I first started shooting heavy bows I had a problem holding my bow arm straight than pulling back the string. All the skeletons from the old archers shooting heavy war bows showed over sized bow arms on them. Not saying the pulling arm doesn't get stressed just you need to work up to bigger pull weights.
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When I first got the big Royal Safari in my sig I could only get it about half way back(good excuse for working out again) and now I get back to my full draw of 30".
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Welsh bowmen all showed distinct disformations in the muscle connections on the drawing shoulders. Nothing disabling, just over built to handle the stress of drawing those massively heavy bows. If you can draw it by all means have fun. Me, I will stick with my standard weight bows.
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Originally posted by Ragnarok Forge:
Welsh bowmen all showed distinct disformations in the muscle connections on the drawing shoulders. Nothing disabling, just over built to handle the stress of drawing those massively heavy bows. If you can draw it by all means have fun. Me, I will stick with my standard weight bows.
Also the oversized bow arms I mentioned plus bone spurs on there bow arm wrist and elbows.
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wow thats heavy, I only wish i could pull that
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You'll get it and when you do get some video of ya putting feathers downrange!
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My gosh how do you guys pull such heavy bows while keeping good form.
Thats a beautiful bow ya got there and i hope you find that perfect arrow to shoot out of it.
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Elktalker; I believe that the reason your arrows rattle is that a 1916 fits perfectly in a 2117 not a 2219. paul shafer used that combo,(1916/2117)and a 90# Bow for his Cape buffalo , the arrow weight was just over 900 GR. Hope this helps you !
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...what is your true draw length at 83lbs?
Mine is likely less than 16", but I'm only 6'4"! :eek:
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Here is a picture of my 102# at 28" Bama Bow and my 98# at 28" Big Jim.
Pretty cool. Some massive limbs and tips.
(http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac138/hemdell/Bama%20Bows/P1010138.jpg) (http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac138/hemdell/Bama%20Bows/P1010137.jpg) (http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac138/hemdell/Bama%20Bows/P1010140.jpg)
Here is my 98# Big Jim at draw.
(http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac138/hemdell/Big%20Jim/CIMG6162-2.jpg)
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matt if you dont mind me asking what kind of speed are you getting out of your bama and big jim bows?
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I have no idea the FPS but getting a wood arrow heavy enough to be 8 to 10 GPP is not easy. However, both bows shot 700 gr arrows like rockets. I assume the FPS is close to 195 or so.
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What kind of wood shafts are you using? I had some maple shafts, several years ago, that were very heavy.
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I have been using AD Trads and some woodies I got from Jason at Howard Hill.
I just got some Douglas Fir that are spined 100#. They are about 725 Gr.
Hard to find a woodie in a heavier weight.
Matt
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I think a piece of steel re-rod with a spear head up front would make a great arrow combo for those bows :archer2: ya'll have some serious muscles!
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That would take some horsepower to draw that kind of weight.
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Well, here is a video of me and my 120# War Bow.
I just started shooting it. So, I guess I am really drawing 26" instead for 27 1/2. So it is a little over 100#. In a couple weeks, I should have full draw.
(http:// [url=http://s912.photobucket.com/albums/ac327/Asgard2010/?action=view¤t=VID00002-20110206-1419.mp4] [img]http://i912.photobucket.com/albums/ac327/Asgard2010/th_VID00002-20110206-1419.jpg)[/url] [/IMG]
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Just build out the side plate. Probably gonna take 3-4 pieces of leather. This will help you move your ceneter shot from 3/16"s past to 3/16"s before. This should allow you to say... {Safaris to weak my eye....}
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No clue what they spine at (lots)or if you could get inserts for them anymore but at one time Golden Key Futura had easton makes some 2440 shafts.
Ive a handful of the shafts and turned down another insert to fit. With a snuffer on the end of a 29 incher the total arrow comes out over 1000 grains.
Closest I can come on weight. No one had a scale over 1000 grains.
I think I calculated the whole thing to just under 1100 grains once.
With a COMPLETELY center shot bow Ive gotten them to fly "ok" but never had enough weight to get them to fly "right".
Decades ago I could pull and hold 113 lbs for 30 seconds (afer months and months of working at it, just for kicks). Most I ever pulled to draw was 126 in 1986.
TOO OLD for that now LOL.
Fun, but for the "wilds" of Indiana it was just fun and giggles.
Every once in awhile the 2440s show up in "the auction" but fewer and fewer these days.
Envy those of you going to the dark continent. One dream that got set aside and is not feasable for me now.
God Bless and Good Luck
Steve
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Yeah, you're probably safe in the 80-90# range for the wilds of Indiana! :D
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LOL......well maybe.
About half THAT seems to work pretty well for some several decades as well.
Heavy bows are fun....to a point. I went overboard for awhile...then I got old, er uh I mean I wised up?
(no offense to big boy bow shooters...of course)
God Bless!
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I'm struggling to shoot my 54# recurve. I'm doing pull ups and push ups. Are there some other good exercises to increase pulling power? I would like to be able to shoot a 70# bow at some point--but I gotta hurry I'm 46 and not getting any younger!!
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Originally posted by JDunlap:
I'm struggling to shoot my 54# recurve. I'm doing pull ups and push ups. Are there some other good exercises to increase pulling power? I would like to be able to shoot a 70# bow at some point--but I gotta hurry I'm 46 and not getting any younger!!
Only shoot heavy bows because you want to. You can kill a lot of game with a 54# bow.
Just like anything, it needs to be fun. I shoot heavy because, at 47 years old, I can. In the future, I won't be able to. That's okay. No big deal either way.
Today, I shot my 73# Bama Bow at the 3 D shoot. After 30 targets, the other guys were getting tired. I was not.
So, I shot my 100# at 28 Howard Hill for a while at the long distance range targets. When I got tired, I rested, then started again.
Finally, I grabbed my 62# Saluki Ibex. It seemed so easy to draw. I was able to have tight groups and I had a good time.
My advice, shoot heavy if you want to. Don't if you don't want to. End the end, who cares?
Hopefully, only you.
Matt
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Thanks Matt,
I have a 46# rd and the aforementioned 54# recurve. I do enjoy the heavier bow more...and I want to work up in poundage bec I think it will help on elk, bear, etc. if I ever get to hunt them, and make me a generally more versatile bow hunter. I need to mention, that since I last posted, I did some reading on the shooters forum and learned some things that I think are really going to help. I was using almost all arms instead of my back -- as in Terry's form clock. I was able to pull the 54# well enough but with inconsistent accuracy. The improved form has already made it easier to pull and hold at anchor, and I think it added another inch in draw. So...I feel a whole lot better about things now. Joe
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Joe,don't sweat the weight thing.Everyone is different in that department.That 54# bow will shoot through anything in North America with a proper weight arrow and good broadhead.
If you are working on proper back tension,most likely,your draw length will increase.That will add a lot of performance to that bow.
When I started working on that,my draw length expanded 2".Get really good and confident with the 54# bow and you will have no problems on North American big game.
One of the worst mistakes bowhunters make is overbowing themselves and developing form issues that can plague them for a lifetime.
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JimB,
Thanks. appreciate the encouragement.
I have gotten to work on the back tension / form clock thing in two shooting sessions now. I definitely have more pulling power but feel a little like I am starting over in shooting a bow. It'll take a little time and work but I'll get there.
And you're right -- my 54# bow [Dan Quillian Patriot] has plenty of pop!
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well said buff. and THAT is what it comes down to.
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I have been drawing high poundage bows since I was 15 and I am by far not a fit person I only have one arm and hold the bow with my prosthetic I think this is the reason y I have never struggled with high poundage bows as my prosthetic dose all the hard work and by high poundage I was shooting a 90# longbow at 15 with my draw of 27"
Most of my shooting is done with 60 and 70# bows now but I still enjoy shooting my heavy bows
Cheers Jim
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I make wood arrow shafts for a living and build bows on the side. I have a 107 lb long bow and yes the problem getting a good shaft that is good for that bow. I have made some shafts out of Irion wood 3/8 diameter with that I can get the spine and weight I need. Arrow weight can be from 1000 to 1200 grains. Can be a hard thing to do to find wood that is that heavy and that strong of spine. That is not my every day bow just a fun one to pull out.
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I just noticed this thread and a question came to mind. How many strand string do you guys use on these 100# bows? 20-24? And then what kind of nocks go you use on the arrows to fit a string that big?
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The string I make for a bow around that weight is made out of 8125 BCY string I do around 14-16
strands and i will add some more strands in the tip for added protection. For a bow that cant have a fast string you better have enough around that 20-24.
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I have played with footing various aluminum arrow sections. A 1916 shaft is pretty loose inside a 2219 section. Better choices would be 2016 inside 2216, or even better for the setup you're using would be a 2117 inside a 2317. If you are looking to get heavy enough spine you need the fit to be close enough so that the two will act in unison when epoxied together. Having the small shafts outside diameter .001" smaller than the larger shafts inside diameter is about right. I have not had the oportunity to hunt larger game, and can not speak from personal experience but it would seem to me that either of the above would work on big mean and ugly beasts. In fact, I think Chuck Adams used the later example on some of the large animals he shot.
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Originally posted by Hermon:
I just noticed this thread and a question came to mind. How many strand string do you guys use on these 100# bows? 20-24? And then what kind of nocks go you use on the arrows to fit a string that big?
the day my 100# Martin Hunter arrived i braced it with a 12 strand B50, with no intention of shooting it just to see it braced and attempt a draw.
The string which was well shot in at 60# immediately stretched out 2 inches and brace height dropped from 7' to 3'!
i use 18 strand FF