Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Dark Continent => Topic started by: BUFF on June 02, 2011, 08:43:00 AM
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Planning a Elephant hunt for 2012.
I killed a cape buffalo, Lion and 4 Australian Water Buffalo with my 83# Iron wood.
My question is has anybody messed with 100 pound bows?
How much power gain will i really get ?
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Hey Marty,
Raging Water in the Pow Wow section shoots that kind of #age. He might be the best person to ask.
Where are you doing your eli hunt?
Thanks
Pete
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sorry i cant help you, but i just want to say thats badass a cape buffalo, a lion water buff and now an elephant!
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Good luck to you, that will be an awesome hunt.
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You are going to be Nicholas' hero when we get down there to hunt with you this fall Marty.
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you will not get that much higher speed:
- Dynamic efficiency will be (little) less due to the heavy mass of limbs. On most custom trad bow, the 10 gpp speed is higher on a 50# bow than on a 85# one.
-You will get 100# only at full draw...and with the emotion of the shot and the lack of warm up not sure at all you will get your full draw lenght
Maybe you should take the problem from the ballistic side : what arrow mass and speed do you want? Then you find the bow to give it. You can find 75-80# bows that will outperform a 90+# average performer recurve
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what was your cape buff set up what kind of penetration did you get?would a cape be tougher than a elephant or not? I love reading your post .Iam really glad you have these opperitunitys in your life what an amazing hunt.africa is the best of the best.good luck be safe.ED
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Marty I would like to see you shoot both bows at mabe a sheet of 3/4 to 1" plywood, for no other reason than to see what would happen. I shoot 45 to 50 pound widows. My draw is 30" and them light bows are bad.No problem with elk,deer,and hogs. I hope to take a black bear one day.Again I like poundage but spine problems keep me away from them.
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An elephant would be way tougher than a buffalo. I can't remember how thick an ele's skin is, but when I dicected a rhino, the skin around the vitals was about 5inches thick. I've seen an ele run through a thorn bush with 6inch thorns that would give the toughest tyres a puncture. It didn't even leave a scratch on it. I would say that it would be all about penetration Marty. Super sharp broadhead, heavy arrow and alot of prayer when you hit it. I honestly can't see you getting a pass through on an adult elephant I don't think getting a shot will be hard, it's after the shot that the real problems start........
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how big is a heart on a elepnant?
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Respect man thats amazing i never thought you could take a elephant with a bow.
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Way to go Buff! Read somewhere of a 92# compound shooting completely through an elephant 3 of 4 times (?). Believe it was Dr. Ashby doing the testing. The arrows stuck out the opposite side. Point being, heavy arrows w/razor edged bh's out of 100# bow should be no problem to kill an elephant. That is, except for running back to the truck with your shorts full.
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dries want me to go with the 100# and a 1200 grain arrow. He said it would be much tougher than the Cape buffalo. Sounds like the big challage is to shoot between the ribs but he said you could see them.
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I'd shoot that 1200 grain arrow with a couple of bows testing speed with a cronograph and penetration on something like wet newspaper or plywood or a combination of both. I'm thinking that there isn't much to be gained by the last 15 or 20 pounds (a total guess!) but it would be great to hear what really happens.
keep us posted....this testing should be fun to hear about.
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One guy used super hitech 95#/28" compound and 1100 gr arrow to shoot completely through big ele (+arrow continued 7 yards after that). Too bad that it is a really difficult to calculate in theory the difference between 83# and 100# trad bows, I guess only way is to test in practise. Increasing draw length by 2 inches would probably give probably same performance.
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I just finished readin Archer in Africa by Bill Negley and he shot all his elephants with a 102 pound recurve. He doesnt get real specific in any of the stats from his bows unfortunately.
Good luck and remember the cortisone! lol
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Thanks for the help, cool video
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These are always interesting threads. Its good to hear that a 50# bow can kill almost anything in Africa. 50 pounds I can handle; 100?...not!
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Hey Marty, It's probably a bit of a longshot, but you might try getting in touch with Andy Ivy (tradtusker) & talk to him about it. I know he was looking into working up a bow/arrow combo to hunt Giraffe & from what I understand (Because of shot angles etc...) an Elephant & Giraffe need about the same 'umph' to penetrate to the vitals.
I think (But I may be off) that he was putting around 1300gn arrows out of a 80#+ Kanati longbow, which I would guess performs pretty close to your Widows, & I remember him being fairly confident with his setup.
I would think that you shouldn't reall need much more bow than you're shooting now. You may also try having a chat with Monty Browning. He's another ultra-heavy arrow proponent & shoots (or shot...) mid-80# bows.
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Originally posted by JDunlap:
These are always interesting threads. Its good to hear that a 50# bow can kill almost anything in Africa. 50 pounds I can handle; 100?...not!
Ditto since that's what I'm taking over in two months.
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If I might interject regarding the "50# bow can kill almost anything in Africa" comment;
Please, please stick to the smaller species of plains game (Springbok, Kudu, Impala, Warthog etc...)
Unless you've already been & experienced just how freaking BIG most of the game is (An average sized Gemsbok is bigger than your average Elk & an Eland can weigh upwards of 900#!) I'd be very, very leery of only shooting 50# unless you're using a very heavy arrow. The tenacity of most African species hs to be seen to be believed. You think a Whitetail running 200yds after a duble-lung is impressive? Try tracking a warthog for over a half mile with it's heart literally cut in half.
I'm not saying you shouldn't shoot 50# or that you need to shoot heavier, I'm just, respectfully, suggesting that you be very, very selective with your shot selections. And remember to keep your shots forward! African game keep their goodies a lot closer to the front than American game ;)
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Hey Buff, PM me your address, I have some 90-100# teak shafts for you to have some fun with. The bare shaft weight on them average 800 grains. I was able to weed out 8 of them. I have close to 30 in the 75-85# range in the same weight class.
It was nice talking to you on the phone tonight. We are looking forward to putting a hurt on them hogs down there. It'll be here before we know it.
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Over actual poundage, bow design is the big factor.
Im presuming you'l be wanting to use a Widow
Ill see if i have some pics of Elephant ribs, i remember having a really good look at a full skeleton they had on display at the Elephant display in Kruger.
Honestly, if you center a Rib, neither a 83lb or a 100lb trad bow is going to work. Its a bit of a lucky packet, you go through the Ribs and your in with a good chance.
but even with a great shot, the Bulls can go a long way, their heart is huge but your broadhead is tiny.
As Rob said, pic your shots well with a 50lb set-ups
We did some interesting testing this year during Buffalo Season, with interesting results on penetration, broadhead integrity, and interesting to see which broadheads really outperformed some of the big name heads. Man did we bend and break so heads
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I am shooting a 76# Longbow right now with a 800gn arrow. But am considering to up my draw weight Before i go buff hunting this coming year to high 80's low 90's and up my arrow weight. I am wanting to get the most penetration possible, just dont know if i am over doing it or not LOL.
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Hey Marty,
I am no expert here, but my hh rogue is around 101# at 30". I normally only draw 29" but have shot it at 30". It shoots the same arrow as my morrison dakota longbow that is around 80# at.my draw. Even though the hh design is less efficient, it is considerably faster with the same arrow. If you can handle 100#.comfortably with a similar style bow, that is what I would use. I don't shoot the heavier bow as well. It is only for training. That being said, I will defer to Andy and others with real world experience as far as what is needed. 50# for Buff and elephants? Not this guy.
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I don't mean to get this off topic, but being ignorant to the exotic hunts i was under the impression that it wasn't legal to hunt elephants but then I did a quick google and found sites offering to set them up. Can any one elaborate a bit? Or post a link to the rules/regulations? Thank you.
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Elephants are endangered in some areas and overpopulated in others. The money from the government fees goes partly to conservation efforts. Animals that are on the CITIES lists are only huntable with prior written consent. The animal parts can only be exported under certain conditions. If it's a "problem" animal and hunted under those conditions then it's non-exportable to countries that are part of the CITIES agreements.
If you're really interested in learning about African hunting there are some very good websites where you can learn a lot about it....it's fascinating. Unfortunately we're not allowed to mention other websites here, pity.
the chef
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I did that Matt, I used a 70# bow with various broadheads and ramin wood arrows that weighed alot.the metal was an old furnace that I just hauled out of my basement a week before.
I ruined some stuff. Poked some holes and broke most of the heads and all of the shafts except one.I drove that shaft right out the end of the head until it hit the steel. I prefer cement blocks or padio blocks. maybe a big phone book eh?
What ever you use will be cool. can't wait to see it.
Chuck
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Some special limbs such as employing mutliple carbon layers and/or carbon-foam combinations may be worth investigating.
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good stuff
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Buff, there was some special on TV the other night as I was told. They were setting up a recurve to hunt elephants. My dad couldn't provide any other details other that they were using different configuration jells to simulate the different mediums encountered when attemping to make a complete pass thru.
Perhaps someone else can provide more details.
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I want my name on the arrow for the elephant!
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There is one spanish guy has shot big five + others with 90# recurve:
http://www.losgrandesdeafrica.es/los_grandes.es/Fotos/Fotos.html
What do you think?
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I think that his accomplishments are highly laudable. I wish he had done a write up on the hunt for the Rhino. The penetration that he got is incredible. It would appear that between all of Buff's hunts and this fellow a strong case has been made for the German Kinetics product.
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I am just wondering his equipment selection and for example that elephant seemed to be shot under the animal. He used 514 gr arrow (205 fps) for buffalo and for rhino 650 gr arrow (190 fps)!
This is something totally contradictory what I seen and read. 514 gr and 205 fps will not penetrate through medium sized buffalo.
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I have 2 bows. One is 107# and the other is 120#. The difference in speed and penetration is significant. Although I cant say the effect on an elephant.
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Originally posted by DG2:
I am just wondering his equipment selection and for example that elephant seemed to be shot under the animal. He used 514 gr arrow (205 fps) for buffalo and for rhino 650 gr arrow (190 fps)!
This is something totally contradictory what I seen and read. 514 gr and 205 fps will not penetrate through medium sized buffalo.
where are these figures from?
those are not Predator 90# arrow speeds. a 60# predator shifts a 500gr arrow at 200fps.
I'm no big game expert but I do shoot arrows of that weight at those speeds. I can tell you that I wouldn't be shooting big pigs with such light arrows
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Originally posted by DG2:
There is one spanish guy has shot big five + others with 90# recurve:
http://www.losgrandesdeafrica.es/los_grandes.es/Fotos/Fotos.html
What do you think?
How can you believe all of this Is true :deadhorse: ??
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Send Dennis Kamstra an email. He is going after elephant with his #70 Stotler. He might be hunting now so it might be hard to get a hold of him.
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Buff,
Ive got a Martin hunter 100# in the mail, on its way to me.
I currently shoot a Stotler gamegetter elite carbon/bamboo 70#. ill post some arrow speeds (when I work out how to make strong enough arrows) and also some penetration tests (if i can find anything that stops the stotler's 10gpp arrows! let alone the 100#)
cheers
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I assume you're referring to broadheads. I'm stopping everything with a simple bag target running 8 to 10 GPP with 27-29" draw. I was stopping two and three blade broadheads at 10m with a Morrell Yellow Jacket target. I use the rinehart 18-1 now for everything.
The biggest thing I have noticed with the 100's versus the 70# bow is that they don't like to be left alone. Your draw length will suffer with as little as a week away from shooting. Best of luck to you with your new bow.
-Forrest
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Forrest,
Indeed i am referring to testing broadhead penetration!
What you say about taking time off makes a lot of sense. I got a case of gastro, hurt my back and tore a callus off my string hand ring finger (working) in the same week, so i had a few days off all shooting, which i never do. Its taken me a week of shoot to get back to my middle weight bow, and my form and accuracy feel like they went backwards by a measure still. I will shoot my 100# every day Im able to.
cheers
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Forrest,
Indeed i am referring to testing broadhead penetration!
What you say about taking time off makes a lot of sense. I got a case of gastro, hurt my back and tore a callus off my string hand ring finger (working) in the same week, so i had a few days off all shooting, which i never do. Its taken me a week of shoot to get back to my middle weight bow, and my form and accuracy feel like they went backwards by a measure still. I will shoot my 100# every day Im able to.
cheers
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Originally posted by hybridbow hunter:
Originally posted by DG2:
There is one spanish guy has shot big five + others with 90# recurve:
http://www.losgrandesdeafrica.es/los_grandes.es/Fotos/Fotos.html
What do you think?
How can you believe all of this Is true :deadhorse: ?? [/b]
x2
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Speaking of legal, surely it can't have been okay for him to shoot a rhino...
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Marty..... What became of the possible 2012 elephant hunt?
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couldnt swing the cost
Kinda turned it into a Bush Pig hunt
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Thanks for the update Marty.
Was actually finding much pleasure in tapping in on the uniquely remarkable chimera… the substance of dreams in and of themselves may bring much gratifying pleasure and realistic actualization.
Perhaps the path to fruition lies just beyond the horizon or w/i the obscurity of the shadow of the moon.