Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Dark Continent => Topic started by: BUFF on March 11, 2013, 03:36:00 PM
-
Just like that, I get a call for a PAC Elephant hunt mid April.
I will have to use my 83# Iron wood bow. No time to have one made heavier.
My problem is my arrow weight.
My buffalo hunts I used a carbon express 350 shaft with a beamon flash shft inserted inside. 100 grain brass insert with a 200 grain head to end up with a arrow that weighs 900 grains.
I really want to heavy this up to around 1162 (14 grains per pound)
Any body have any ideals how to get there?
I need a shaft that will fit into the hearitage shaft that weighs 14 grains per inch
Buff
-
Didnt Monty Browning put a fiberglass shaft inside of an aluminum shaft for his Cape Buffalo hunt....might be a thought to consider as you can pick up fishing arrows quite readily. A 2219 or 2317 with a solid fiberglass arrow inside might work...depending on shaft diameter of the fishing arrow for a snug fit.
-
If you put a 300 gr. Tuff head with a 100 gr steel adaptor on the front of that shaft you will have ove 1100 grains I believe.
-
G'day mate,
I have some of the Grizzystik Safaries that I push foam rod into (they use it in to push between bricks in walls, to be found in hard wear stores) ....with a brass insert and one of the Vintage single bevel BHs I am sure you could get well over 1000 grains.
Wether you get correct arrow flight is another thing and all part of the fun of leading up to the hunt.
If you want, I could send you one of the shafts already made up with the foam rod in it so you can bare shaft it if you like?
ak.
-
I just weighed one of these shafts and bare shaft with a wrap on it comes in at 630g. Again if you use one of the 300g Tuffheads with a 100g steel BH adapter and add in the weight of the fetching I'd say the arrow would come in at 1100 grains.
Again... With that much weight up front might disrupt your dynamic spine to much and not get correct arrow flight...
Your call.
ak.
-
Will weed whacker cord fit inside the Beman shaft? That may get the weight up without effecting the spine. :dunno:
-
If you go to an actual .300 spine carbon express(their spine rating is not what the arrow is labeled, in other words a .350 is not spine .350)than you could do as Danny says and add a steel 100 adapter and a 300 grain head plus the 100 grain brass insert and that would get ya over 1100 grains. If not an aluminum stuffed with a fish arrow will get ya darn close to 1400 I believe. Shawn
-
Dangerous game FMJ come as heavy as 17.2gpi and with 500 grains up front you would be over 1000 and I think you can stuff a skinny axis in them and get up to 1250 or more, not sure on the axis fitting but I see the FMJs come in 9/32nds. and a bit bigger. Just got me thinking! Shawn
-
Alaska Bowhunter supply has a Elephant arrow that combined with their 350 grain Ashby head weighs 1260 grains.
They are sending me one to bare shaft. If it flys well that will be the ticket. If it is too weak, all the better I can still use my GK dangerous game head at 200 grains and be at 1110.
If not I will keep trying.
I wonder if silver solder adds to the spine if I up it inside what I'm shooting now?
-
Good luck! Keep us all posted as this thing progresses.
-
Good luck on the hunt,
can't wait for the photos and video!
-
Looks like you are on your way to finding something that will work, Marty! All I got to say is Good Luck (and if you need to hire a cameraman you know I am retired! :thumbsup: ).
Bisch
-
BUFF
what do you draw?
ive got some 2219s with GT3555s inside. I use a 100gr brass insert, glued into the 3555.
shaft is about 700gr at 31" add 100gr insert, then you only need 300 more up front, easy with a steel adapter and Tuffhead.
its an easily repeatable, readily available, strong spine solution. I havent tested it but I expect below .200 deflection
-
Well my 2 grizzly stick shafts came in.
29" long with. 200 grain insert and a 315 grain field tip they are too stiff.
I have now ordered some 300 grain tips from Tuff broad head along with a 125 grain steel insert. That is going to put the arrow up around 1380 grains. Tat is a little more than I wanted but I don't really have a choice if I stick with the grizzly stick arrow. I will have to add weight to weaken the shaft.
-
Marty, will this PAC ele be a cow or a bull, do you know? Good luck!
-
Originally posted by Ben Kleinig:
Marty, will this PAC ele be a cow or a bull, do you know? Good luck!
The way I understand it, it could be either one
-
Great news Marty!
if the 900gr is tried and true, my advise would be stick with it. You center a rib on a ele you got problems. luckily there is more gap then rib.
Marty, *NB if you go the Tuff head be certain you have the best, solid well machined hardened BH adapter you can find. Most are crap soft cheap steel, and you will get this every time, and it will cost to an animal.
I have some of the really good 75gr adapters if they will work, i can send you what you need. If you need more weight you will have to source some.
Soft BH Adapters with Tuff head.
(http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h101/tradtusker/IMG_1407_zps8aa38a93.jpg)
here are a couple pics you might like to get your mind around, if they are of some help.
Bull Ele
(http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h101/tradtusker/IMG_1740_zps77b74916.jpg)
(http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h101/tradtusker/IMG_1742_zpse43bbff5.jpg)
-
I ordered the steel adapters from tuff broad head. Are they junk?
-
The old one's where. Not sure if they got better.
-
My 300 grain tips and 125 grain adapters came in. Even with the 425 grain tip the new shafts from Alaska are too stiff.
So the plan now is to go with something similar to what I built for the Buffalo .
When the parts come in, I will start out with a full length bemoan inside the hermitage shaft. I will cut the inner shaft down a little at a time until I get it to bare shaft with the 425 grain point. And 100 grain insert. It should weigh around 1100 grains.
Even if the 1400 grain arrow would have worked I'm not sure I would have use it as it hit 10" low at 20 yards. It would not matter what the FOC was if I can't hit anything with it
-
Buff I had some 340 power flights sleeved in a 2117 game getter with 400 grains up front that I was shooting out of a 80lb @29" humming bird king fisher recurve unfortunaly I only made 4 and have lost them all but they weighted around 1100grns from memory and I think around 31" long
Cheers jim
-
Example for consideration:
Arrow: 29 “ AD Hammerhead Trad
Nocks and Wraps: ~30 gn
Insert - 250 gn insert – tool makers can make this a reality
BH – 300 gn
Total Arrow wt - ~1025 gns.
**Could contact Aero Dynamics to provide predictability for increasing spine by removing arrow length from the tapered end, thus permitting and increase in insert wt.
-
Awesome Marty. The boys and I will be watching how this comes together. Nick is all excited that he now knows an elephant hunter.
-
Buff. On my cape buffalo hunt I used a CE 350 with weight tubes, a 300 gr Tuffhead, 125 gr adapter and 100 grain insert. Came up to 1050 grains give or take. Using your Beamon shaft in place of the weight tube I used.... might be the ticket. Good luck and shoot straight!
-
Got it sorted out
The Neman shaft cut to fill the complete 350, nock to insert flys like a dart without feathers.
300 grain tuff broad head , 125 grain steel adaptor and 100 grain insert weighs 1075 .I'm really tickeled how will they shoot
Thanks for all the help. Not sure what the FOC is but it should be ok with 525 grains at the tip
-
fantastic!
out of curiosity how fast do they shoot from the 83#?
-
Nice work. Good to hear them flying strait. Forget the numbers now, just shoot.
Keep us updated.
-
Marty, I have some carbon express Piledriver 450 shafts and some carbon express Maxima Hunter 450 arrows. I can send you a couple to play with if you want to try and get the FOC higher.
The Piledrivers are 13.1 grains per inch
The Maxima Hunter is 9.7 grains per inch
Benjy
-
:thumbsup:
-
Buff, I bought some solid stainless steel inserts from traditonalarcherysolutions.com after I read about Dr Ashby's reports. The one's I bought were 225gr and I've been happy with them. I'm not sure if he makes them to fit the arrows you use, but it might be worth a call. Brian
-
Glad to hear you found something that worked for you. I would have been inclined to recommend either the Arrow dynamics hammerhead heavy weight shaft with all that weight up front it would have been plenty heavy the only thing is you might have had to have built out your side plate some. I think the tuffhead is probably your best option for a broadhead.
-
Hey buddy I have absolutly no way to tell you what it takes to kill an elaphant. I would take advice from those who do like Andy.
I will be looking forward to the story my friend.
Randy
-
Good luck and sounds like you got your arrow figured out! Sounds like an awesome adventure!!
-
Good luck Marty, I know you can do it.
-
Hey Marty,
Where are you going to be hunting?
Thanks
Pete
-
Mozambique
-
Oh wow, good luck and my your aim be true! Would love to hear the story afterwards.
-
When are you going?
-
He is there right now, or on the way. I talked to Buff on the phone a couple weeks ago, and the hunt is middle to end of the month. I cannot remember exactly. There should be some pretty sweet pictures/videos coming shortly.
-
Yep I keep tuning in to this thread. Curious about the 83# vs elephant.
-
Ha ha... I keep checking in here too. I keep trying to picture waiting for an elephant to "get broadside" lol It's a stunning thought!
-
:campfire:
-
standing by....
-
Congrats Buff on getting your elephant!!!
-
Guys saw on another site that Buff has some BIG BIG NEWS :bigsmyl:
http://discussions.texasbowhunter.com/forums/showthread.php?t=370663&page=16
-
Here is a pic of Buff and his elephant he got. Hope Buff doesn't mind me sharing his photo on here for everyone. Congrats again Buff on an awesome hunt.
(http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w29/athorn69/buff_zpsea045df9.jpg)
-
... Wow !
-
That's what we have been waiting for Marty. Fricken AWESOME.
-
Hope there's video of this one. Should be a good story to go with it.
-
:clapper:
Great !!!
-
A BIG CONGRATULATIONS MARTY :clapper: Can't wait to hear the whole story. This is the type of hunt that most of us can only read and dream about. You did it in style......one arrow WOW ! ! !
-
Wow!!! That's truly amazing! What an accomplishment Marty. I'm eager to hear this one and see more photos. What a life experience! Jim
-
Very cool!!! Looking forward to the stories and more pics!!!
-
:notworthy: :clapper:
-
Congrats.
-
Congrats!!!! Looking forward to the story. :campfire: :clapper:
-
Congrats!!!! Looking forward to the story. :campfire: :clapper:
-
Congrats, that's a lot of meat right there! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
-
Amazing :thumbsup:
-
Incredible, well done Sir!
-
Knew you could do it, congratulations! Can't wait to hear the tale.
-
Take a peek at Dennis Kamstras article in Traditional Bowhunter magazine. He talks about heavy wood hunting shafts...some are 850 grains bare with spines to match. Kevin
-
:clapper:
-
Unbelievable! Well done, not sure that can be topped, ever!
-
WAOW !!!!!
-
All I can say is wow! Nicely done.
-Dan
-
Thanks for all the good wishes and kind words.
I'm back in South Africa now.
I will be back in the states next week and will post up the video and some more pictures.
I'm not sure how to tell the story, still trying to get it all straight in my head. It is kind of like a dream to me now with parts running together.
LOTS of walking, hot , humid and all worth it in the end.
This herd of Elephant had been giving the villages fits as they were totally unafraid of people and chased the villagers on sight.
When we went into the thicket after them we made a plan.
If I felt I had a 100* quick kill shot , I would say nothing.
If I had a kill shot that was going to involve some follow up tracking I would holler "shoot" and the PH would shoot it in the hip. We did not want it to be able to keep up with the herd or make it to a near by village and kill somebody.
If the arrow didn't go in I was to holler "kill it" and he would try to shoot it in the head or spine.
At the shot, I glanced off a rib and got about half the arrow penetration, I said shoot and the PH fired at the hip.
All hell broke loose. Elephants were everywhere at once and Steyn had to shoot 2 more for us to get out of the thicket.
We went back 4 hours later only to be pushed out of the brush by the other Elephants.
The next day I was happy to find my Elephant had only ran about 50 yards away before rejoining the herd.
I suppose one of the other elephants helped me out as the all bunched together as we found my arrow completely in the elephant when they dressed it.
To quote the trackers report to the ranger investigating
" arrow go in, elephant walk, walk bleedy, bleedy, walk here bleedy, bleedy, walk there bleedy, bleedy .........Done
The Tuff broad head did a great job.
The one that hit a rib was a little bent at the tip
I shot 2 more I to the elephant the next day.
Both disappeared completely
I will have video next week for everyone
Thanks for all the help putting this together
Buff
-
Wow!! Great story! Having been mocked charged by a juvenile bull while on an exploratory trip to check out a Botswana archery concession, one can not realize how big, unpredictable and unafraid of humans that some of these rogue elephants can be.
An acquaintance of mine was nearly stomped flat (his poor hunting partner was not so fortunate) during a buffalo hunt in Zambia in the late 1990's. A tuskless cow with a very bad attitude attacked without any warning.
Congrats on your successful hunt, and looking forward to getting more of the details!
-
Congrats on truly great trophy and adventure.
Just one question, when doing testing on dead one did you try to hit rib bone?
Is it so that the middle of rib is just too thick for a any trad bow?
Thanks...
-
Originally posted by DG2:
Congrats on truly great trophy and adventure.
Just one question, when doing testing on dead one did you try to hit rib bone?
Is it so that the middle of rib is just too thick for a any trad bow?
Thanks...
I only had 3 arrows with me
I shot one in the head. It went in about 6"
The next 2 I shot in the chest, neither hit a rib. There is a lot of meat on them so you can't really pick one out to shoot at.
The rib bones seem to be pretty round on the outside so I. Pretty sure if you center punched one, an arrow is not going to get thru.
The 2 I shot that didn't hit a rib zipped right thru.
I just glanced of a rib with the first shot and only got half the arrow in.
I think the change of direct hurts as much as the impact.
JMO
-
I just read through the whole thing on the Texas forum - what an incredible story!
Congratulations Buff - absolutely epic!
-
It's nice to know that a shot from an 83# bow can zip through an elephant if shot between the ribs assuming the setup is at least as efficiant as Buffs. But what I'm curious about is what would be a minimum set up that could go through a rib and still bury to at least to the fletching. That would be a nice bit of info just for the sake of knowing.
-
Congrats again, Marty!
Hope to see you soon and hear all the stories in person.
Bisch
-
Congratulations on an outstanding accomplishment!
-
Congrats Marty! That's the pinnacle of big game! Well done! :clapper:
Looking forward to the photos and videos! :coffee:
-
Can't wait to read about it!
-
Videos
I broke them into 3 parts to help them load
Hope you enjoy.
As often happens it is hard to capture the excitment of the moment with the camera but you can take my word. I was maxed out
first day
http://www.buffsblackwidow.com/videos/day%201%20elephant%20uploadable.wmv
the shot
http://www.buffsblackwidow.com/videos/elephantkillfinalHQ.wmv
Tuff broadhead tests
http://www.buffsblackwidow.com/videos/ELEPenatrationtestsuploadable.wmv
-
Congrats Buff,
Now I'm feending to go back to Africa, thanks for that!
I have a start on the big 5, a cape buff, but that was with training wheels... Now I'm dreaming of heading over there with the longbow!
-
Marty,
I'll repeat myself here...having already commented on another forum....
I admire your courage!!!
Congrats for following a dream to fruition! No matter the weight of the ivory...the value of the adventure is immeasurable!!
Congrats and well done sir!!!
Mr. Fred and Mr. Hill would be proud!
Sincerely,
Kevin
-
Such an adrenalin pumping unique experience.
Congrats and thanks for sharing.
-
Unreal! Way to go after your dreams Marty!
-
Amazing accomplishment congratulations Marty!!!!
-
Buff,
Now that you have had a little time to relax (I hope!) what's your opinion on broadheads for large dangerous game? Would you still choose German Kinetic for game like Water or Cape buffalo, or would you now prefer the Tuffheads?
-
I really was impressed with the Tuffhead. It would be my first choice
-
Thanks
-
Buff,
Have you seen last months bowhunter magazine? Dennis Kamstra on 'Tips from the old guy' talks about hardwood shafts available spined up to 120# and weights of 850 grains bare. His email is [email protected]. (He runs a tradbow guy service out of R.S.A).
Kevin Forrester
-
what do you do with an entire elephant though, that's gotta be way to much meat to eat, with an animal that big is the meat any good?
-
Originally posted by greenfish13:
what do you do with an entire elephant though, that's gotta be way to much meat to eat, with an animal that big is the meat any good?
I'm pretty sure most of the meat is donated to the village
-
Congrats on a hunt of a lifetime!
-
Originally posted by greenfish13:
what do you do with an entire elephant though, that's gotta be way to much meat to eat, with an animal that big is the meat any good?
no a bite of the elephant was wasted. Ladies came from miles around with buckets to carry it away
(http://www.buffsblackwidow.com/images/484.JPG)
-
doesn't abs make the grizz stick longer than 29, if they made one 31 you might be ok or even under spined
-
New post on old topic...
All of the Grizzlystik Safaris come in at 32.5"