Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Dark Continent => Topic started by: Bobaru on April 06, 2014, 01:25:00 PM
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So, we will be going to Africa for the first time. The guide's website says I will need at least 50 ft. lbs. energy for Kudu.
So, I went to Stu Miller's calculator, and the most I have is 48.90 ft. lbs. out of a one piece bow. (58# at 29 1/2" draw)
My three piece bows all come in at 46 ft. lbs. and under - bows for Elk hunting. (the Brack is 54# at my draw. and 45 ft. lbs. of energy).
Should I be hunting with these bows, or scramble and get a 60# bow? I just don't see many 60# bows in 64" or 66" readily available, and don't have time to order a Blacktail, et. al.
Any suggestions?
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You'll be fine. KE isn't as important as momentum.
Check out this article on Tuffhead's site. There is a link in this story to an article about African game.
http://www.tuffhead.com/education/formulas_momentum.html
I hunt Africa for larger plains game w/ less than what you have. I only draw 26" and use bows from 50# to 56# at my draw. I use heavy arrows(over 650grs) w/ as much foc as possible.
This zebra was taken w/ 51# and a 500gr arrow. Quatering away shot, lodged in the opposite shoulder. I have upped my arrow weight since then.
(http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh236/Prairiedrifter/Africa%202011/IMG_0095.jpg) (http://s257.photobucket.com/user/Prairiedrifter/media/Africa%202011/IMG_0095.jpg.html)
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Oh, and all my bows generate under 40lbs of KE.
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Thanks for the advise. ...
My wife put up her hand last night at an auction at the NY Bowhunters, and now we're going to Africa. Gotta admit, I really feel I'm out of my element.
Good news is that I have some time to get prepared.
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You'll have a blast!! I try to go at least every other year. Once you go, it's in your blood!
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In 2009 I was fortunate to go to Namibia and was shooting a Wes Wallace Royal 58#@28"longbow, with a draw a little under 28". I somehow suspect that I did not get to full draw either shot. I shoot 550 grain cedars with a 125 gr 2 blade Magnus2. Both kudu fell to this bow, and the better shot didn't make it 60 yards. They are not thick skinned. Shot placement is the answer as usual. I also took gemsbok and a large female eland who both went little time and distance until they went down. I am shooting the same set up this July on my return trip. If you read back some of the trip reports over the last five years you will see some good game taken with even lighter bows. Have fun
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i saw my friend calgary chef take a kudu out at about 30 to 35 yards with a 50 lb bow.
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I've been shooting my 54# Brackenbury well (56# at my draw). But, I went out and got some 60# limbs (65# at my draw weight) for my backup bow, a Samick Journey. I wanted to see whether or not I could draw such a heavy bow at age 64. Well, I'm shooting the blasted thing as well or better than the Brack.
In the meantime I've been reading lots and lots of threads. Some fellow on Trad Gang shot a bunch of stuff, including a Giraffe with a 54# bow.
Made up some arrows. Maybe light by some standards. ~ 550 gr. They're flying well.
The arrow thing is interesting. ... Stu Miller's calculator works well, and I match his results against bare shaft tuning. So, in order for me to get a heavier arrow, I need to go from a 300 spine to a 250 spine. ... Tired of spending money on arrows ... Think what I have will do fine the largest animal on my list is a Kudu or Zebra.
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You could always build out the sideplate area and add more tip weight to the arrows you have.
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Thanks for the idea... I did that about 5 years ago with a bow and now had forgotten all about using that to adjust my arrows.
I will be taking both bows, but am leaning more and more toward the 65# bow. If I can get my "cold shot" on target every time, that will be my first choice.
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Should not be a problem at all, as you know it's all about shot placement. The editor of the local bow hunter magazine published a couple of articles regarding poundage. Check out African archer.com. Select articles and scroll down to through and through..
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Shooting Eland is like shooting a pet cow!!
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I also believe you can do well with your current setups but the side plate,point weight tip is a great option.
http://www.africanarcher.com/momentumKENETICS.html
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Interesting article, Jim.
Unfortunately, any particular bow has a set amount of KE, like it or not.
It's only after one has chosen the bow that one moves onto the issues of momentum.
Also, unfortunately for me, I'm not familiar with "Slugs." But, I will bring myself up to speed with that when I get a chance.
What I will say is that I read on Trad Gang where someone killed a Giraffe, and he posted up the particulars. My bow/arrow combination has, at this point 95.5 % of the momentum that his arrow had. So, I think I may be good on a Kudu.
Right now, I've got a 554 grain Gold Tip Traditional out of a 54# bow. I looked at lots and lots of different arrows, including Full Metal Jacket for Dangerous Game - and compared how they might tune using Stu Miller's calculator. After all that, I'm thinking I might buy some Easton Gamegetter 2317 arrows.
My problem with some of the Carbons is that, if I put a weight tube in the center, the FOC goes down and I don't think I would want such an arrow.
One other point. I've tested and tested and tested arrows with various weight and various velocity. I have yet to conduct a test that demonstrates a statistically significant difference in penetration between arrow of differing weight. The most radical test I did was a 390 gr arrow versus a 554 grain arrow, both tuned to my Brackenbury bow.
While it does appear that there is a relationship to the momentum being the important factor, so far, that can't be demonstrated by evidence in my tests.
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So, if shooting Eland is like shooting a pet cow, what is shooting a Kudu?
The thing I'm most paranoid about is a whitetail jumping the string. .... I hope to find out about Kudu (getting pretty excited).
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I shot through my Kudo at 15 yards. I was shooting 64 lbs at my drawlength of 29" I was using 2219 arrows at 30" with a Magnus I broadhead. I was using a 62" Jeffery Recurve with a B 50 string. This was 20 years ago. The fletchings where all that kept the arrow from completely passing through. The arrow fell out after 2 bounds.
The most difficult thing to remember is to shoot African animals in front of the crease and not behind it!
The cool thing about a Kudo is they have a stripe that marks the back of the kill zone!
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All true, based on what I've seen. It's normal that you're overthinking it. Any trip to Africa is a big hunt, and the first one is a lot to plan for. But, they're all correct- shot placement is what it's all about. My experience is that a big elk has a more significant infrastructure than a kudu....if that matters. Shoot them where you should, and you're ok. But, if you don't, even the smaller African species have a very strong vitality!
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I shot this 54" Kudu with my 50# at my 29.5" DL Sarrels Blueridge longbow. It went about 100yds and was DRT!
(http://i579.photobucket.com/albums/ss239/archeryrules/SouthAfrica2009263.jpg) (http://s579.photobucket.com/user/archeryrules/media/SouthAfrica2009263.jpg.html)
Bisch
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Birch: Impressive.
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Impressive, DRT usually refers to an animal dropping at the shot doesn't it?
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You will be fine. I've had the good fortune of hunting in Africa on three separate trips. The heaviest bow I ever used was 55 pounds. Most of the time I shot 53. I killed a gigantic Eland bull. He died in sight. I've killed 3 kudu and all were complete passthroughs. Multiple warhogs, red heartebeast, impala, gemsbok etc. All with no problems. I generally used a 630 grain arrow but I also killed a lot of critters with a 550 grain arrow.
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Eland like a pet cow? Not at all in my experience. The Eland in Namibia were extremely warry. As far as string jumping, kudu won't do too much of that. Nor will any of the big stuff. This is a true story. I was hunting with a P.H. one time. My first trip there. I was using my recurve and he was convinced that it was so slow that when I went to shoot at an impala, I needed to aim well below it. I was hesitant but since I was new there I trusted his judgement. One day a monster of an impala ram came in and offered me a shot at 20 yards. He told me to aim at it's front leg at the joint. His theory was that the ram would drop at the shot. Well I aimed at the joint and guess where I hit him? He did not drop at all! Lesson learned. After that I just shot at stuff the way I normally do. Impala and warthogs will jump the string though. Also mountain reedbuck are super jumpy. I was worried about that so I waited till my mountain reedbuck gave me a 7 yard shot before I let him have it.
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That's me in the Abowyer picture above with the Kudu. He was killed a 54# A&H longbow with 625 grain arrows. I got a complete pass through and watched him go down from a full gallop. Your set up is fine, just put the arrow in the right place and make sure it's scary sharp. Not much more to it than that. Have a great time!!
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jonsimoneau - nice story. Impalas sound like whitetails. I heard Impalas die hard. But, anyone who has hunted whitetails for a while has their own stories.
Horne Shooter - thanks for the advise. I've settled on my 54# bow. I think it's about 56 # at my draw. And, the 554 grain arrows seem to fly well. So, all I need to do is just keep practicing.
By the way, my wife will be shooting 45#. That's the most she can comfortably draw. She's more accurate than I am, but she'll be using a bow I can't talk about here. Still, it will be fun just to have her bowhunting - it will be her first time of any hunting with a weapon more powerful than a camera.
I've been conditioning our thinking to wait for our shots, keep them close. And, I think I will stop shaving while there, so there's no excuse for the broadheads to be dull....
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hey Bobaru your bow poundage will work. I live in South Africa and have seen many kudu fall in front of bows of lower poundage. The key is just to put the arrow in the heart lung area and you will get your buck. Enjoy Africa my friend
Johandre
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Find Ed Ashby's arrow penetration reports on here. He has done extensive studies on arrow weight/velocity/penetration, and has proven beyond a doubt I would say, that a heavy arrow is the only way to go. I'm currently shooting a 70/75 spine douglas fir shaft with a 190 grain Tuffhead up front. They weigh 659 grains. I shoot a 55@28 A&H and I draw about 27". These fly great out to about 30yds without substantial drop and I'm confident they will put down anything out there, provided you put it in the right place. I cant get a carbon heavy enough for my liking to fly right for some reason.
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Find Ed Ashby's arrow penetration reports on here. He has done extensive studies on arrow weight/velocity/penetration, and has proven beyond a doubt I would say, that a heavy arrow is the only way to go. I'm currently shooting a 70/75 spine douglas fir shaft with a 190 grain Tuffhead up front. They weigh 659 grains. I shoot a 55@28 A&H and I draw about 27". These fly great out to about 30yds without substantial drop and I'm confident they will put down anything out there, provided you put it in the right place. I cant get a carbon heavy enough for my liking to fly right for some reason.
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Sorry for the double post. Oh, have a great time and take plenty of pictures. It is a beautiful country. I'm planning on Namibia in '16 and cant wait to get back to that part of the world.
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Hi everyone! New to TG here. I live in SA and have hunted quite a few larger animals with longbow and recurve. I use a 49lb longbow, 550gr poc shafts and settled eventually on a zwickey eskimo two blade. I honestly have never had anything but very adequate penetration on animals up to gemsbuck size with this setup.I obviously keep the larger game shots closer and broadside or slightly q-away.Will post some pics as soon as I figure out how to do it lol
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Btw, we occasionally have injured or sick cattle that have to be put down. I will test my "light" setup on the next fresh bull carcass (plus or minus 200lb animal) and maybe report back here on TG just for interest sakes.
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Ok, got the pic posting sorted. Here is a Red Hartebeest bull shot with the above setup.
(http://i.imgur.com/baaZLpk.jpg)
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Warthog, same setup
(http://i.imgur.com/bVqQ2HD.jpg)
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Gemsbuck, same setup @ 16 yards.Got pass through shot. Please excuse the blood! should have cleaned it up.
(http://i.imgur.com/QFoAS0U.jpg)
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Hell of a pig bro!
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Looks like the only thing sharper than your broadhead are the Gemsbok horns. Nice pics.
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From my limited experience all African critters die hard and the key is not bow poundage ( shoot what you can comfortably ) ... But more so one needs pin point accuracy. If your off a little it can mean heartache.
I lost a real nice warthog when I shot clean through him with a 740g arrow, TuffHead out of my 63# recurve....lots of blood but no recovered animal after 500m of tracking.
Nice animals Hunt. I'm heading back to Namibia next year and have me a hankering for any gemsbok who offers up a shot.
ak.
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Sorry for the contoversy but If accuracy is always the key , the perfect 15 yards or less broadside shot is not always occurring. I hunted many places in Africa and Zimbabwe and for our last 4 trips we tried to hunt only natural water holes with no feeder, mostly in natural made light blinds or straw shields. The truth is that way is much more interesting for me but realistic shot opportunities are less and sometimes i have to take shot a little longer that I wish or shot angles not that good on game quartering toward a bit. The key for me is max poundage I can shoot honestly and extra wide multiblade for maximal lesion effect. This way I just lost 3 animal over the last 7 trips, one being a "good" shot, probably bagged by poachers
As every body I train my shooting as much as I can and often ( not as often as I wish though !) in my backyard i do really excellent shooting. But things don t always go as perfectly when hunting...i shoot 61# at 31+" 720 gr arrow, big Jim 300 gr & 50 gr insert BH border hex6 recurve. Not that much poundage, but A LOT of bow regarding to effective arrow speed and momentum...
I made a little footage of those less than "perfect" shot, every game recovered and truly bow killed , none shot less than 19 yards.
eland was quarering toward 19 yards, I aimed for a shot between neck and shoulder blade but ....arrow broke his shoulder joint and took right lung. Made 100 yrd and beded on sight, unable to walk further. I could sneak and shot him at 25 yards then it stood and made a few paces and i could put a third arrow. It is still #8 sci livingstone eland taken with a bow.
Wildebeest is shot through the shoulder bone on a quartering towards angle, down in 80 yards
Warthogs were all over 20 yrds shots. The one shot a litlle back was track for half a mile and thanks to the huge holes the animal was moving slowly and I could back up arrow him at 30 yards. Then made 200 yards and died. The spine shot one is done through the scapular joint and cut the vertebra. All the broadhead in the spine.
How many of these could have been put down if shot the same with low poundage bows/ light arrows /skinny blade ??
To see the footage, click on pic and Password ( if needed) is: caranx
(http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx225/hybridbowhunter/video/th_ZIMBABWE_zps103c0eeb.mp4) (http://i758.photobucket.com/albums/xx225/hybridbowhunter/video/ZIMBABWE_zps103c0eeb.mp4)
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Very cool video!
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Linda and I arrived South Africa on 8/25 and her suitcase never left Atlanta. My 64" Brackenbury 54# bow was in that suitcase. My suitcase contained my backup bow: a 64" Samick Journey 50#. It was shooting about 55# at my draw length and is very similar to the Brack.
Before a trip, I get very particular on details. I do know that, once in the field, all that detail planning can go to the devil. But, still, I like to be prepared ahead of time.
I found that the two bows shot slightly different, probably due to how my hand fit. And, I shot the Samick Journey better (??). On my "cold shot" with the Journey, my arrows were slightly low. With the Brack, they were slightly high. So, I practiced exclusively with the brack.
Arrows were another thing. I have not been a big fan of heavy arrows, which will get some eye brows raised here. But, with lots of testing, and lots of excel files, I settled on a Gold Tip Traditional 7595, 300 spine, 31" with 40 grains attached to the insert and a 150 grain two blade Magnus Stinger. Total weight is 564 grains.
I was wanting to bring a 463 grain arrow, but listened in the end to those who like them heavier. And, there was almost no difference in the point of impact between the two at 20 yards. Plus the Gold Tips flew very nicely and were well tuned.
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We were put up in a nice B&B in Pretoria for the evening. As we were sipping coffee the next morning, our PH stopped in for our lift to Matlabas Game Hunters, a 4 hr. drive.
First thing at camp, Linda and I settled, got some lunch and were invited for an afternoon hunt. I still had jeans and sneakers, but no matter.
First stop was at the range. Elgim marked a line in the sand, and said "20 yards." Elgim stood back with the owner, Willem, to watch us shoot. I have got to admit, I'm a little intimidated. But I block that out. First arrow with the Samick Journey was dead center in the 1" black circle. So, I act as if that is normal, not anything like luck. Next 4 or 5 arrows were all in a grate fruit size area. Linda's were about the same. More normal for us. So, off we went: me with Elgim and Linda with Willem.
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On the first afternoon hunt, I had two dikers and three waterbucks come into our waterhole. Nothing to shoot at. I made a few practice draws. I realized that these animals in a water hole are a lot more jumpy than the whitetail deer I'm accustomed to.
In the next two days, we saw less. There was still water in the Matlabas river from their Fall, the weather wasn't hot enough for the animals to want an abundance of water, and the wind was blowing. A much frustrated PH, Elgim, told me that, well, yes, there was game here. But, I didn't need convincing. Look at the ground anywhere and I saw more prints and more scat than I'd ever seen in America.
Finally, on Wednesday the 27, Elgim and I went on a Walk and Stalk. In short order we came on a small group of Eland bedded in the shadows. I didn't have any desire for an eland, but we put on a stalk for fun. As we got to about 70 yards, off to our left, we spotted zebra. Now things were more interesting.
We turned to stalk the zebra in earnest. Elgim thought he could get me being a scrub bush at about 30 yards. Perhaps I could get a shot.
As we worked this stalk crosswind, we came more and more close to a bad wind sitution on the eland. And, sure enough, the wind took a slight shift. The eland were off taking the zebras with them.
But the zebras didn't go far. So, we started a new stalk. But that went south quickly. I'm guessing the spooked eland were too much for the zebra. Or, it could be that the zebra just like walking, ya know!
As we stood up and milled about over this ending, off to our left we spotted a 40" Kudu bull standing under an acacia tree just looking at us. ... Just amazing to me what goes on in Africa. Sure different for me. Of course, Elgim ways he's too small for me. But, to me, he looks like a BIG animal. No matter anyway, as he exited also.
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I started a thread on Pow-Wow to continue this.
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awesome trophies, Congrats!
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I shot my 54" kudu with my 50# @ my DL Sarrels Blueridge longbow with 530gr arrow. I used super sharp German Kinetic Silverflame XL broadheads. I have also shot red hartebeest and waterbuck with the same setup.
Bisch
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Very nice Bisch.
I got a 40" Kudu within 40 yards. I thought he was BIG. ... He sure impressed me!!!
But the PH casually says he's got at least a year to grow up.
So, 54" is very respectable.
I finally shot about ~ 55# with a 564 grain arrow. It didn't work on Kudu, 'cause I never got the shot. But, it was dandy for Wildebeest.
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Hunt, that warthog is a monster!
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I killed a 54" kudu on my first trip to Africa with my 50# at my DL Sarrels Blueridge longbow. I'm prety sure it is in the mid to high 30's in KE. He was down and dead in about 100yds. I have also killed waterbuck, red hartebeest, and nyala with the same bow with no problems with amount of pentration.
Edit: Dang, did not realize I had already posted on this thread!
Bisch