Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: KodiakBob on December 26, 2007, 08:24:00 AM
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After looking at the thread "What's in your bow Inventory" I noticed very few Hill or "Hill" style bows. Are they just too simple or too plain for most. Recently I starting shooting an old Martin Mountaineer with wooden arrows. I guess that I must be getting old as I seem to like the simplicity. Don't get me wrong there is a place for hi-tech as I own a GMII, Tsunami, Win/Win, also.
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I think the right word is classic.
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Hill style is a great style but might be a little harder for some guys to shoot consitently because of the straight grip and getting the same hand placement shot after shot. And there is nothing plain about my Jack Harrison HHC (Howard Hill Classic). Very fast, zero hand shock and smooth. It's a killer.
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Hill Bows and the Hill shooting style are still alive but its definately an acquired taste, especially with all the new bow designs, anti-traditional rhetoric and the target style/metal riser fad thats hot right now. Lets face it, the Hill style is harder to learn than shoot-by-number approaches. Definately more fun and quite useful for hunting, but less popular for shooters wanting repeatable accuracy similar to what they had with their compounds and target recurves. Thats understandable.
But Hills and other D-bows definately still have their following. As a matter of fact, if anyone out there doesn't want their Hill bow anymore I'll be glad to pay shipping and give them a good home. Just doing my part to make the world a better place. :archer:
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I didn't even participate in that thread, i have two Howard Hill bows. My Big Five and my Redman are wonderful bows, they have a simple beauty all of their own. Both of them are fun to shoot, I shoot them almost exclusively, they both like 5/16 wood arrows. They have a feel that just draws me to them time after time.
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The Beauty of Hill bow is it's simplicity....
I love shootin mine....
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I guess beauty is indeed in the eye of the beholder (or could that be "bowholder"). I love the elegantly simple lines of my Hill bows. My Redman with gorgeously grained yew and ebony riser are sure nice to look at and fun to shoot. All the inlays, overlays, etc. going into bows now are eye candy and run up the price. But if that's what floats a guys boat, more power to him. I like 'em all!.....Dave
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I have 8 Hills on my wall and none are too plain.All have silver inlays and extra or different lams that come with the standard bow.It's just whatever catches your eye.
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There is absolutely nothing inherent about a Hill bow that will prevent anyone from shooting at their personal best, and there is no reason to believe that a r/d longbow with a sculpted grip with all sorts of placement details and palm swell will increase accuracy.
Archers are no different than the general public. We want something more, something just out of reach, and something more is delivered to us with commercial ads and endorsements and the imaginings of others. In traditional archery that may include more space age materials and radical limb profiles and arrow speed claims. A lot of us want more advantage in our equipment, when what we could benefit most from is becoming more skillful as archers.
One of the most interesting aspects of compound shooters is how much time they spend fiddling with their bows. Bolting on this thing, taking off that thing, adjusting this and that, buying a new thing, and on and on. They are under the belief that the "bow" is THE thing, and if the bow is "out of adjustment" or has other breakdowns their poor accuracy can be easily explained away. I see some of this mind set creeping into traditional circles. If we are not shooting well it is very rarely about the bow, or the next bow, it is almost always about us as archers.
A Howard Hill bow is as fine a traditional bow as can be had. It has evolved and been refined over many years, and thousands of archers shoot them with great accuracy. If you believe that you cannot shoot A Hill bow well, or any trad bow for that matter, you will not be able to shoot them well. If you believe that a straight grip will put you at a disadvantage, it will. If you believe that a highly sculpted grip on a r/d longbow will make you a better archer, it will. It is 90% about our expectations and 10% about the bow.
And for all of you guys and gals out there who may have one of the "simpler" bows, be it a Hill or a fine selfbow or whatever you may shoot, take heart; if you love your bow and you practice consistently you will have in your hand the best bow on the planet, for you, and what other bow could you possibly want?
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well said Ghost Dog!
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Exactly what Ghost Dog said! Exactly!
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I couldn't have put it any better Ghost Dog! My Hill longbow has made me a better archer than any bow I've ever owned. If I don't shoot well I know its not the bow its me. It's the quietest, lightest, most accurate(when I'm doing everything right) bow that I've shot.
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Well said Ghostdog :clapper:
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Only reason I don't shoot the Hill bows is I have yet to find one that didn't hurt my elbow from vibration. Never had any problems hitting with them, just didn't like the pain after a few shots.
As far as too plain, Squirrelbait (Mike Mitchum) had the most beautiful one I've ever seen with a sterling silver inlay of a moose in the riser, gorgeous woods and perfect lines. He still kicks himself, for selling that one.
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Bob, great post :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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My son has a HH Wesley Special 80#@27" and he can stay with anybody on a 3D course with it. He's deadly and the bow shoots a heavy arrow better than any RD bow I've seen yet. I've never had a problem hitting with them myself. I agree. It's 90% what you really want to do and 10% reality
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Ghost Dog, you pretty much nailed it. I don't go in for listing my bows (including several Hills) on a public site. We trad gangers are all honest, of course, but others can peruse our posts. I don't want to provide a shopping list for potential burglars.
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I'm primarily a selfbow guy. I have something-dozen selfbows on my wall, but only 3 glass bows. My favorite of those is a Big Five. I think their elegance lies in their simplicity.
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I have a 68 inches reconstituted yew laminations classic longbow made in Switzerland by a local bowyer, with all the trimmings, elk hide wrapped straight handle 62#@28" ( the only bois d'arc Yew, taxus baccata, the one English armies used, comes from Switzerland and Scotland, not Pacific Northwest) and it rips with no handshock, provided that you shoot it the way it should be: bent elbow, dead release
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Ghost Dog, right on the money man!
Eric
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If you are trad shooter , bowhunter, I thinks most of us go through our Howard Hill phase , some of us stick with it, move pass and beyond it. While others like myself , go in and out and back to the simple longbow of the Howard Hill style bow ...some bowyers have improved this design ...either way , I never get tired of reading or talking , or shooting a Hill style bow. :)
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I got to this one late. My wall is almost all Hills... lots of them. If you want to see beauty in Hills, take a look at the 2008 Hill Longbowmen calendar. It's a free download...
http://tinyurl.com/yqc8jr
I wasn't working in pdf files last year, but I do plan to go back and "pdf" the 2007 calendar so that it will also be dowload available, as I keep getting asked for it.
Dick in seattle
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Dick, when i didn't see you post here i thought you fell off the face of the earth :bigsmyl:
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Thanks Ghost Dog and Bayoulongbowman, I think both of you made the point I was thinking of, simple is good. I know that I sometimes get wrapped up in hi-tech fast bows and lose sight of why I shoot a bow, the simplicity of grip it and rip it.
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Hey KodiakBob,
Simple is good. So is uncomplicated and uncluttered, if that is what appeals to you. It certainly does to me and many others.
From the perspective of many bowyers, new materials and new limb profiles and impressive chronograph results coupled with multiple overlays and fancy grips bring in the orders, and increasing business is vital for these guys, and they deserve our respect for their creativity and craftsmanship.
There are, however, many bowyers who have made their reputations with simple, uncluttered, elegant looking bows with simple lines that perform fantastically; Howard Hill, Great Northern, Northern Mist, Liberty Bows come to mind. And then there is the world of selfbows!
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I have noticed that most people that declare that Hill bows are not accurate don't know how to shoot Hill style. I find Hill bows more accurate than most others when i shoot and recurve always remind me how clumsy they are when I try to shoot under something to hit a rabbit.
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One problem I see (from clsssidied ads & ****) is that many guys are ordering their Howard Hill longbows way shorter in length and drawing them way longer than Howard Hill himself would have recommended. Consider a guy like me, 6' 0" with regular sleeve length. From reading his books & bow catlaogs, I believe Mr. Hill would've set me up with a 68" amo longbow & a 27 1/2" or 28" arrow. Today, I see guys of my height ordering 62" to 64" AMO HH longbows & drawing them 30" or more. That has to be an unpleasant shooting experience for this style of longbow.
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Yes sir , give me 66 or 68 or 70 longbow any day!!I agree with ya Clint B. .I love shooting 61# in 68 incher!! mark#78 :wavey:
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I'm 5'11" and I shoot a 68" Hill bow tillerd for 28" but I pull it closer to 29"
I personaly would not want a Hill bow less than 66" >>>------>
When ya order a Hill bow, talk to Craig and he will set ya up with the proper length....
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Agreed, 68-70 inches seems to be the traditional Hill length for a 28 inch draw. I have a just shy of 28-inch draw and have shot Hills from 64 to 68 inches. If I were doing mostly target shooting, I'd stick with 68 inches, but for hunting, I feel a little awkward with that length. 66 inches seems to be the sweet hunting length for me. Purely in my head, of course, but that's why I have a 68 incher up for trade now. Hint. Hint.
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I think even with my Height and draw, that Craig will tell ya 64" will work....
Butt, I think a longbow is just not a long bow unless it's at least 66" minimum....
Nothing scientific here just my toughts on the subject....
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I have a real short draw, 25", and Craig started me out at 64". Later, on take downs I went to 60" and actually liked it and did well with it.... have two 60" td's and a 60" cheetah. However, with experience comes wisdom (we hope...) and the last several bows I have ordered I have followed the practice of ordering an inch longer than my draw and a notch lower weight than i though I wanted... So, I'm now shooting bows that are 66", a bit longer than Howard would have recommended for me, and drawing them a hair short of tillered length, but not grossly underdrawing, as happens when i try to shoot a bow made for 28". I order the weight at the longer draw. My next Hill, due here in February, will be 66" and 45# @ 26"... which will make it a very smooth, easy 42# or so for my achey old shoulder. If all goes as planned, this will be a fun, easy bow for me to shoot in 3D for several more years.
Dick in Seattle
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I traded for a Howard Hill bow on here last spring and now have three of them.I wasn't sure I would like from what I had heard about handshock.I guess that can be subjective.The first Hill had a dacron string and it had handshock when I put on some string silencers.Then I took them out and the handshock was almost gone.My other Big Five has ebony tip overlays and I put on a D97 and what a difference that makes in handshock.I really love shooting them,I've shot longbows for years R/D and some hybrids.For some they are quite addictive,I have found that out myself.My latest Big five has a gaboon ebony riser with black glass laced grip with a high gloss finish,it is a beautiful bow.
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Simple? You could say that. Simple is a good thing.
Plain? Hardly! They're like a woman that does'nt have to put on a bunch of makeup to look good.
Eric
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Originally posted by WESTBROOK:
Plain? Hardly! They're like a woman that does'nt have to put on a bunch of makeup to look good.
Very well said.
Im hooked on Hills for that simplicity...
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Originally posted by WESTBROOK:
Simple? You could say that. Simple is a good thing.
Plain? Hardly! They're like a woman that does'nt have to put on a bunch of makeup to look good.
Eric
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