Post by: Madpigslayer on August 02, 2003, 02:24:00 AM
http://www.western-gift-ideas.com/history.htm
dims...48" ash, buffalo sinew backed, it will be snake backed...and since it is going to a humid climate, I am thinking of doing a non-traditional epoxy finish for moisture resistance. The grip will be either buckskin or rawhide depending on what it asks for...probably fur accents on the handle...might be on the tips too, arent sure about that one yet. The book asks for a sort of reflex/deflex type profile. I will bend that in with heat/grease. My intentions at first were to make the replica at 45 pounds or so, But to get hunting weight might mean I need a little longer bow, we will see. I think if it needs to kill a deer it might should be 55#. probably at this length it will only draw 24" and be a 15 yard or less weapon (I am guessing...have heard these are brutes on accuracy at this length) I have made arraingements for 3 as close as possible matched stone points to to be knapped to dress up 3 river cane arrow shafts I will prepare. they will be footed and nocked, ya know...just to up the difficulty...no risk, no reward. I am hanging it all out there!! a couple of turkey wings are on the way from the recipient (who shall remain nameless at this to point so as to not curse my project!) to adorn the arrows. Major mojo.
I will say at this time, that I have no idea if this thing will work or not...never done it before. If it blows up, I will use the heartwood elm stave I have just begging for the opportunity. But that is plan "B" which I wont talk of again unless I need to!
whatever, it will probably take me a long time to finish...but I dont mind long build threads! as history will show.
here is the picture again...
http://community.webshots.com/photo/83880553/83880757BdgJfx
I just want to show it again so if my bowyer career stalls, maybe I will have a go at becoming a "foot model"
!["[tunglaff]"]("graemlins/tunglaff.gif" "\"\"")
Post by: Jock on August 02, 2003, 02:38:00 AM
Really enjoyed your last bowbuilding thread, looking forward to this one.
Your Scottish Brother.
Post by: Steve on August 02, 2003, 06:11:00 AM
Post by: Timo on August 02, 2003, 06:41:00 AM
10-4 on the model! :bigsmyl: (If your gonna model um,you might think about putting some color on them nails)? Strawberry red,or moss pink rosea? ;)
I'll be watching! :thumbsup:
Post by: the Ferret on August 02, 2003, 09:23:00 AM
http://groups.msn.com/ferretsarcherywebpage/picofbowswevemade.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=173
http://groups.msn.com/ferretsarcherywebpage/strippingturkeyfeathers.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=730
My main deer hunting bow for this year will be "Big Bird", ostrich sinew backed osage 62" ntn 45#@27 and 1 1/8" wide. I'll be using cane arrows and flint heads this year as well.
http://groups.msn.com/ferretsarcherywebpage/picofbowswevemade.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=855
last year it was "Blossom" another pony bow, self backed osage with copperhead skins 59" ntn and 46#@27 1 1/8" wide. Trade point tipped, selfnocked cedar arrows.
http://groups.msn.com/ferretsarcherywebpage/photos1.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=843
As you can tell hunting with these pony bows has become consumate fun and they give up nothing to their stiff handled brothers as a hunting bow.
Post by: Madpigslayer on August 02, 2003, 12:06:00 PM
Jock. Thank-you. I hope I can make it work.
Steve, what was the reason you put silk on the sinew, was it just to level things out a bit?
Timo? "moss pink rosea?" You are scaring the crap out of me big guy!!! :scared:
ferret, you are an inspiration as usual. I was thinking the 55# range because I want the bow to push stone points, that might require a little more pizzazz? I enjoyed looking at the pictures you posted. "coup" is a sweet bow.
Post by: Madpigslayer on August 02, 2003, 12:58:00 PM
that is why it is pefectly straight. Is that like a violation of some sort?!!!
Post by: hickstick on August 02, 2003, 01:15:00 PM
mickey....you got stones for wearing blue and white plaid into the turkey woods! :)
Post by: trashwood on August 02, 2003, 01:59:00 PM
Two yrs ago I shot the Texas Longbow Champinship with a ponybow. No I was along ways from fetching a belt buckel but I didn't embrass myslef. I used river cane arrows also.
I made form boards, trunks, limbs and a few things inbetween. I made for 75# to 35#. They are most of what I shoot today. I got a thng for them. BTW I got a copule made out of hop hornbeam. HHB makes a sooooo fine pony bow. Got a trunk full out of hackberry. Light in the hand, quick as a wink and sooooo handy. Got 'em out of hickory, a few out of trees I had no idea what they were......ah I like pony bows. The only bow I'd ever use in my hidey hole. I ball to eye ball with a 70 pig at about 6 or 7 yds well put a different spin on the day :) Eye ball to eye ball with a 250#'er will test your spinchters
only way to get there is with a 52" pony bowAt 20 yds (hunting ranges) I just don't see how ya need anything more. Not sure I'd shoot the colors at 90 yds with one.......but sumpin to eat at 15yds is in a lot of trouble.
Rusty
Post by: Madpigslayer on August 02, 2003, 02:41:00 PM
Post by: Killdeer on August 02, 2003, 08:08:00 PM
(now will you misdirect them?)
Killdeer (who has to move out because of the room taken up by unfinished projects.)
Post by: trashwood on August 02, 2003, 08:43:00 PM
Rusty
Post by: trashwood on August 02, 2003, 08:44:00 PM
Rusty
Post by: trashwood on August 02, 2003, 08:45:00 PM
Rsuty
Post by: Madpigslayer on August 02, 2003, 10:07:00 PM
put on pants? and here I thought you guys would pick up on the humour of my Pablo impression! it was pretty subtle...!
Now Rsuty...what about my draw length question? Am I alright with 24"draw with a 48"bow?
Post by: the Ferret on August 02, 2003, 10:34:00 PM
Not Rsuty but yepper specially if it's sinew backed, can probably get 26" draw out of it.
Hickstick, it's actually grey and white. I hunt for color blind turkeys thats why I only kill one a decade :rolleyes:
Killdeer...having been the recipient of Rusty's generosity on more than one occassion myself, I can tell you you're in for a treat. The man has a heart bigger than Texas.
Post by: Steve on August 02, 2003, 10:41:00 PM
I just cam in from shooting that bow, and I gotta tell ya, these little shorty's are the way to go fer up close hoggin'.Steve
Post by: Frank on August 03, 2003, 12:29:00 AM
Nice looking stave. Little straight, I guess thats good. Haven't worked a straight one in awhile.
Here is a pic of the last two pony bows I made awhile back. I am out of the pony bow phase now.
The top bow is a 48" osage 45lb at 27" bow. It has 8 layers of elk leg sinew and a deer leg sinew wrap.
The bottom bow is 52" elm 55lb at 27" bow. It also has 8 layers of sinew.
http://www.hornbow.com/frank.html
I'm not out of the sinew stage yet, or ever I hope. Currently working on a 58" sinewed back osage snaky bow. It also has 8 layers of sinew.
Just like the 8 layers for some reason.
Let us know how your bow goes.
Oh by the way, what kind of epoxy are you going to use? I have in the past poly'd the bow many times over and then waxed.
Frank
Post by: Madpigslayer on August 03, 2003, 02:08:00 AM
As for my bow being "straight" it is my understanding that "there is nothing wrong with that" (only half the people will get that attempt at humour)
nice bows by the way, why ya outta the stage?
calvin-wearing clothes-peters
Post by: George Tsoukalas on August 03, 2003, 08:08:00 AM
Jawge
Post by: Timo on August 03, 2003, 09:01:00 AM
LOL at Mickey.
Post by: Frank on August 03, 2003, 11:06:00 AM
Calvin, after making about 8 of them, two of which I kept, the others were given away. I found out that they look great on the wall, but I can't hit a barn door with'm at 10 yards. What goods a bow you can put in your back pocket if ya can't hit anything with it.
So now I'm back to the 58 to 60" bows. I shoot them alot better. Well, I can at least hit the barn door now.
What's weird is what I consider long 60", many consider short.
Can't wait to see your "straight" pony bow.
Frank
Post by: the Ferret on August 03, 2003, 11:29:00 AM
What are you guys calling pony bows?
Post by: Frank on August 03, 2003, 11:40:00 AM
I always figured a bow less than 50" in the selfbow bare or backed with sinew was a pony bow.
That cupid bow you are referring to is a goal of mine also. Many years ago, PA ran an article on how to make one along with the form. I cut it out and it is in my bow building folder. If you want a copy, let me know and I will copy and fax it to you.
Okay, what's the difference between a "pony bow" and a "horse bow"?
Frank
Post by: Madpigslayer on August 03, 2003, 12:15:00 PM
You will notice a Northern Plains bow of Ash, this is where I got the dims to use for this bow. You will notice also that it has some reflex/deflex in it. So my little "straight" bow will suffer a "mindchange" I am afraid. This time it wont be blamed on rock and roll.
Thanks Jawge, I think this one will work.
Timo, I am blessed to have you along. I just know you have a set of "Jethro" teeth in the side table. Probably kept in a "Cope" can too I bet? LOL.
ferret...I am calling a Pony bow a short bow. capable of being shot of a horse, and in the Indian style. I think "Horse" bows are those Euro style (often horn) kind of recurvey thingies.
I think if I was 48" tall, a 48" bow would be considered a longbow. so therefore we should measure the long bone in our shin, multiply it by 4, carry the one...add 2" depending on what side of the border you live. Just in general make it hard for people to figure out. I expect Tom Sawyer to be along with "upper learnin" type analysis anytime now.
whaddya think Frank? was it difficult to shoot the shorties on account of the draw length, or what was the main reason do you figure?
Post by: Frank on August 03, 2003, 12:30:00 PM
I think I had a few problems. One is that I keep drawing the darn things too far back. I found that given the right set up, you adjust your draw for the distance of the shot. Another problem I ran into was of course finger pinch. Tried a thumb ring and shot an arrow off to my right, way off to the right.
I just did not think that I was proficient enough to use the bow during hunting season. So I expanded my bow length a bit.
Frank
Post by: Killdeer on August 03, 2003, 02:04:00 PM
I'm not worthy
I'm not worthy
I'm not worthy
I'm not worthy
A real honest-to-Sam-Hill Rsuty-style Trashwood Special Bow just for little (that's a lie) ol' (that's not a lie) smart-mouth me?
I hope folks aren't thinking I'm laying it on too thick :rolleyes:
but I am really floored.
I draw 26.5" and like 'em between 45 and 50 lbs.,
and you can tell me sorry but you were drunk and I will tell everybody that you made me the most perfect bow that the world has ever seen, and after killing the magnificent Odocoilus virginianus borealis with a humongously unmeasurable nontypical rack I offered it back up to God because that's where it belonged and sorry but I got no pictures of it because that woulda sucked the magic from its immortal soul howdja like some venison stew?
I can't think of a way to repay you, but I'll try. The things I know how to make or do, you can do ten times better. See if you can think of something you need that I could buy or make for you. I'm no slouch with a camera, but I dunno how that could help unless you want photos of something.
Killdeer-everytime-I-think-I-have-the-world-figured-out-I-run-into-TradGangers-The Unworthy
Post by: Madpigslayer on August 03, 2003, 02:16:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Killdeer:Mailmom...that is a quality sense of humour! You get a permanent seat at my camp. I will write your name on it and everything.
you can tell me sorry but you were drunk and I will tell everybody that you made me the most perfect bow that the world has ever seen, and after killing the magnificent Odocoiles virginianus borealis with a humongously unmeasurable nontypical rack I offered it back up to God because that's where it belonged and sorry but I got no pictures of it because that woulda sucked the magic from its immortal soul howdja like some venison stew?
Post by: Killdeer on August 03, 2003, 02:24:00 PM
Killdeer the Litrate
Post by: Killdeer on August 03, 2003, 02:26:00 PM
Your Most Humble and Obedient Servant,
Killdeere.
Post by: Madpigslayer on August 03, 2003, 02:47:00 PM
Post by: Timo on August 03, 2003, 04:17:00 PM
Just my take!
I of the beholder?
Calvin,Never put them in the can till after dark!
Whhhhaaaat?
I like the way "Killdeer" says,
"I'm not worthy",but then quickly snaps out the specs on draw length,and weight! LOL, That one got me. ;)
Post by: trashwood on August 03, 2003, 08:27:00 PM
Rusty
Post by: trashwood on August 03, 2003, 08:42:00 PM
To be on a manufactors board of any kind ya have to get a mouth full of marbles. Ya hit yourself in the head with a hammer till ya pass out, when ya wake up ya spit out a marble. Continue this process till all your marbles are gone. Now ya'as qualified to be on a manufactors board.
Rusty
Post by: trashwood on August 03, 2003, 09:02:00 PM
the archer on the AMo board said "I know what myh draw lenght is and I ain't gonna tell ya"!
The pharmacist on the borad said "who cares lets smoke this stuff"
The preacher on the board is stilling praying over it.
The selfboyer on the AMO board didn't care then and don't care now.
the bowhunter on the board is still tring to figure out what BH to use
The custom bow maker on the AMO board is still tring to figure oput how BW sale for....well you know
I'm still tring to figure out if the sun really comes up in the east. I mean who decide that was east. Does the sun rise in the est in China. I bet they don't know the world east. If ya'as in the near east does the suyn sit in the far west?
Rusty -anchor point to bow touche - CRaine
East ain't east it is ching do ping ding,,,watch for it
Post by: Madpigslayer on August 03, 2003, 09:14:00 PM
Post by: Killdeer on August 03, 2003, 09:39:00 PM
Rsuty, my draw lenght (sic) len(sic) Lent(I give up) is two and one third cubits. How I came to that conclusion I cannot fathom. I had it figured out, but not furlong. Just for the space of a single klick...
Um, I'll get back to ya.
Killeder.
!["[dead]"]("graemlins/dead.gif" "\"\"")
heeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheeheehee
Post by: Timo on August 03, 2003, 09:48:00 PM
You got long arms! :D
Post by: Killdeer on August 03, 2003, 09:49:00 PM
KD
Post by: trashwood on August 03, 2003, 09:55:00 PM
Rusty
Post by: Madpigslayer on August 03, 2003, 10:00:00 PM
Post by: the Ferret on August 03, 2003, 10:00:00 PM
So how long are we saying a pony bow can be? Less than 60?, less than 50"?
Timo I agree on 1 1/4 MAX more like 7/8-1 1/8 on width! I like em around an inch and the handle 7/8" wide by about 3/4-7/8" deep.
The -glad he ain't on no board that decides this stuff-Ferret
Post by: Killdeer on August 03, 2003, 10:05:00 PM
I was just sitting here speechless.
I guess I should get on the stick about making some arras for this. It will be my first no-glass bow. I gotta get hopping about the stone points I'll need, too. This will take some major energy.
So what do you need, Rsuty?
Killdeer
Osage, yet!
Post by: Timo on August 03, 2003, 10:10:00 PM
Lets say anything under 3 cubits!!!!
There, an un-executive decesion :bigsmyl:
(legend)--..--..-...= morse code
18" =cubit
Post by: Timo on August 03, 2003, 10:15:00 PM
Post by: the Ferret on August 03, 2003, 10:18:00 PM
Post by: Killdeer on August 03, 2003, 10:23:00 PM
That one I think was set in Elmer's carpenter glue, a convenient substitute for hide glue. For pitch, I just used something already in a can, so I don't have a formula yet for the raw stuff. The pitch I had was black, already mixed with powdered charcoal.
Heck, I don't even have a formula for the waterproofing pitch mix, I just add grease 'til it looks and spreads right. Now I can't find the old black pitch provider anymore, but picked up a can of unmixed stuff at a meet a year or two ago. Will be messing with it when I get some stone heads in.
Killdeer
Post by: Madpigslayer on August 03, 2003, 11:30:00 PM
on the edge of the treelines where pipelines run through the trees...there is hundreds of thousands of machine damaged trees just clogged up with sap. and there is pipelines running absolutly EVERYWHERE in this province.
Post by: Killdeer on August 04, 2003, 08:02:00 AM
Somehow I have got to organize all the info I have worked with over the years. I tend to read, experiment and apply, then go on to something else. When it's time to do the first thing again I usually end up reinventing it. What have I done? Lots. What do I know? Arrghhh. It's hard going through life with no room on the hard disk. :smileystooges:
Killdeer
Post by: Madpigslayer on August 04, 2003, 01:39:00 PM
Post by: Killdeer on August 04, 2003, 04:30:00 PM
Post by: Madpigslayer on August 04, 2003, 08:00:00 PM
Post by: Madpigslayer on August 07, 2003, 01:31:00 AM
"The End Of the Begining"
either way, it was an interesting night :saywhat:
First, the good news. I am starting to get the feeling back in my legs :D ok, so I made that part up, but I got yer attention!
I took the pony bow upstairs, got her all greased up (http://community.webshots.com/photo/83880553/84619954tWEOJK) , and started toasting it on the BBQ (thats Barbee to you Jay) ala Jim Hamm. all along the way I am thinking that I should never has picked out a board for this project, kinda felt like cheating, and doubting my grain selection. anyways.
threw it into the thing for 10-20 minutes somthing like that, and kept rotating it, doing everything just right, dont ya know. Everything would have been just fine, had I not decided to "maximize my time" and left well enough alone. but NO! I decide, while I am waiting, to put the pine pitch experment on the stove.
(I had rounded up a volunteer to smoke a cigarette, ya know, the abstract way to get ashes...no lady, IN THE CAN she thought I was kinda wierd, but I digress) because I was trying to get the right mixture of ashes, fat and pine sap to make pitch dontyaknow.
So...I decide that the wood is hot enough to bend, so instead of getting some clamps, laying out a form, I decide to support the ends on chunks of 2by4 and kneel in the reflex. by now you have gotten the idea that I never got that "Doctorate" in the mail yet. you would be right in that assumption. turns out, I didnt put weight on the stick even, and the belly collapsed (http://community.webshots.com/photo/83880553/84620253JYvgEq) right on the part where the wood was sticking out of the BBQ (I only had the center section in there...was gonna put in the reflex first, the deflex one limb at a time) so I calmly decide that it is wrecked anyway, might as well see what the other side will do, and broke that (http://community.webshots.com/photo/83880553/84620353pMcuvX) hardcore too. (this is art, not science...dont tell Lennie)
and that is when things started to get hazy.
I remember that I have pine pitch on the stove (of course it is a gas stove, and I have just set a tin can with a little pine sap in the bottom directly to that) I poke my head in the door, and can smell it at the same time I see the smoke pouring out of the can. I grab the pot holder and grab the can off...the now very runny sap, runs up the side of the can, simultainoiusly catching on fire. I now have a "flambe" going, and Martha Stewert is going balistic on the phone in the living room. (Did I mention she didnt want me using the BBQ for "so-called experiments?" LOL?
all I can think at this point is....Matt says, "Just make sure you dont burn it" as I take it outside and get the can "under control"
here is the moral to the story...
Never try and do two things at once, and
Pine Pitch makes an excellant fire starter.
oh yeah, and use a form for bending wood.
I am going to bed now. I will get started on the "B-Plan bow" right away, that one always wanted to be an Indian bow anyways. Wasnt it Tim Bakker that said "If it is going to not work, make it not work right away?" I took your advice Tim!!!
Post by: Madpigslayer on August 07, 2003, 01:40:00 AM
"Screaming Moma" or "Just try going to sleep Mister"
Marvin I am gonna make that silver spoonhead arrow and keep it by my bed...just in case. :p
Post by: indybow on August 07, 2003, 01:52:00 AM
Post by: Madpigslayer on August 07, 2003, 07:37:00 PM
I like to push the envelope a bit, you dont know where the boundry is sometimes until ya cross it! and if I can inspire a few people to try some of this stuff, that is what it is all about...just try not to get hurt! (and maybe make yer pitch outside LOL)
NEXT!!!
Post by: the Ferret on August 07, 2003, 08:34:00 PM
ya gots to be real careful when crossing into that side :thumbsup:
Post by: Killdeer on August 07, 2003, 09:55:00 PM
On the upside, there is certainly no lack of entertainment to be found in your house! Martha, by the way, is a saint! Thanks for letting us learn a little here. :)
Killdeer
Post by: Madpigslayer on August 07, 2003, 11:23:00 PM
I gotta get some digital video going...if you guys knew the "players" in the "movie of my life" I am sure you would all find it a LOT more amusing!!!! If I had the video running last night, I would have taken the Home Videos first place...fire, screaming, smoke...and someone got pine sap on the brand new "Pampered Chef" hot mitts. I guess they are expensive or something :scared: on the bright side...I made it through the night!!!
Post by: Rich Saffold on August 08, 2003, 12:09:00 AM
Sorry bout the bow, next summer we'll make a slinky outa osage w/ Gary's hairdrier when he is taking a break.
And if you heat that pitch between two table knives....... :saywhat: