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Topic Archives => Build Alongs => Topic started by: AZStickman on February 07, 2004, 02:17:00 PM

Title: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: AZStickman on February 07, 2004, 02:17:00 PM: Here's the start of a bow I'm building for the Tradgang Saint Judes Auction.... The stave is Osage from Timo's Century Tree and I'm shooting to bring it in at 66" ntn pulling 55#@28"....Let's have fun ...... :D .... Terry

http://mail4.cableaz.com/~tpetko/auctionbow1.htm
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: Madpigslayer on February 07, 2004, 02:31:00 PM: cool Terry! that is a special tree

what is a wind check?

...And when is the auction again? I might wanna add something, too.
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: Dano on February 07, 2004, 02:47:00 PM: Nice piece of wood Terry, great job and great cause. Love these build-alongs. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: AZStickman on February 07, 2004, 04:49:00 PM: Here's the steps I took to establish the layout ....Next step will be to get her down to our starting thickness dimensions....Terry

http://mail4.cableaz.com/~tpetko/auctionbow3.htm
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: Linc on February 07, 2004, 07:52:00 PM: Terry,Lookin good.That is one premium stave you have there. :thumbsup: Gunna be a dandy of a bow.
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: AZStickman on February 07, 2004, 08:06:00 PM: Now I've got the side profile established.... tomorrow we cut in the facets and get this thing starting to bend.....

http://mail4.cableaz.com/~tpetko/auctionbow7.htm

Yep this is one special stave indeed..... Calvin The growth ring that is kinda reddish in color is probably wind check....wind check is a growth ring that was stressed out from the wind blowing the tree and causing it to seperate up the length of the ring....I've never had any problem with it..... Gonzo and Habanero both had wind checks and they are hard hitting durable bows.....This one will probably be all worked out of the working limbs with some remaining in the fades and handle.... Basically the nonbending portions of the bow....... My hats off to the guys that do these build alongs on a regular basis.... I spent more time taking pics and putting this up on the computer today than I did building the bow..... :D ....Terry
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: Steve on February 07, 2004, 08:59:00 PM: Cool, Terry. You're a great guy. Steve
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: the Ferret on February 08, 2004, 11:40:00 AM: Terry figure 3 times longer to do a bow while doing a build along incl taking pics and posting to a website

I got to say though you take the best pics and the way you put them together is great! :bigsmyl:
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: B n Az on February 08, 2004, 12:06:00 PM: Terry... lookin good! You're making it look so easy and I like the pics and descriptions on the build-a-long. I'm looking forward to following along.

Bobby
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: Madpigslayer on February 08, 2004, 12:12:00 PM: Geez Terry, in all the pictures you take, the sun is shining. very nice. I usually build in the dark, gets dark early up here in the winter.
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: AZStickman on February 08, 2004, 04:29:00 PM: Now we've got the facets established and get our first look at Floor tiller....

http://mail4.cableaz.com/~tpetko/auctionbow8.htm

Mickey... I take the pics and do the HTML but Debi is the graphic artist... :)

Thanks Steve and Bobby.....
Calvin... I moved down here after living 13 years in Oregon and in the first month I felt like I'd had a years worth of sunshine..... :D .... Terry
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: the Ferret on February 08, 2004, 05:02:00 PM: Bow is looking good there Terry...could you take a pic from the end of the bow showing the facets? I think that would explain the process very well.

and I see you're wearing your Jawge tiller flage :D
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: Timo on February 08, 2004, 06:20:00 PM: Terry, I don't remember that stave being that straight?

You got it looking good.
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: AZStickman on February 08, 2004, 06:23:00 PM: I've been a big fan of Jawges' tiller flage for years but I've kinda kept it in the closet.... :D I'll see if I can get some better shots of the facets in the next series of pics...
Timo..... It always had good lines north and south..Just the little deflex I offset by clamping it to the form while it acclimated to Aridzona..... This stave is a beaut..... Terry
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: AZStickman on February 08, 2004, 07:03:00 PM: Mickey.....I modified the Facet pic to show them better........ :) .... Terry
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: Brian Halbleib on February 08, 2004, 09:15:00 PM: Looking great Terry, thanks for sharing. I particularly like the circle stencil you use for laying out the widths. I have a full length pattern for the majority of the bows I make but the circle stencil would come in handy for all the others. I commend your generosity to a good cause as well.

-Brian
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: Chris R on February 09, 2004, 06:02:00 AM: Great build along. I like the tip of using a circle guage to mark your profile, I've always used either a rule or a compass, the genius of simplicity, gotta love it :thumbsup:

Chris
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: AZStickman on February 09, 2004, 07:32:00 AM: Chris and Brian..Using the circle to do your layout dimensions is something you'll find in Dean Torges' book "Hunting the Osage Bow"..... If you haven't done so already I'd highly recommend that you pick a copy up.....everything I'm doing here is either directly from Deans book or a mutated variation of his process.....Like the Facet tillering..... :) ...Thanks for following along.. Terry
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: Dano on February 09, 2004, 11:40:00 AM: Great job Terry, I have been using a compass for layout :knothead: , but that stencil looks much easier. Thanks. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: John Scifres on February 09, 2004, 12:39:00 PM: Awesome job Terry! I'm gonna go capture all the pics of Jawge's tillerflage on all us bowyers someday and put them on a single page. Nah, the anti's would get a hold of it and use it against us :)
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: AZStickman on February 15, 2004, 10:01:00 AM: Here we are creating Facet #3:

http://mail4.cableaz.com/~tpetko/auctionbow9.htm

Roughing in the nocks:

http://mail4.cableaz.com/~tpetko/auctionbow10.htm

And Taking a look at the string alignment and the first pull on the tillering tree:

http://mail4.cableaz.com/~tpetko/auctionbow11.htm

Amazing how nice the first pull looks. This stave really wants to be a bow..... From here on out we'll be stalking tiller..... :) .... Terry
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: Timo on February 15, 2004, 10:24:00 AM: Very nice Terry! Now I know what took you so long. We thought you were sun bathing! :D

The site look very well done! Nice graphics.

First pull looks about right!
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: AZStickman on February 15, 2004, 12:13:00 PM: LOL.... Nope Tim not sunbathing this morning was the first chance I had to work on her since last weekend...Work and after work meetings screwed up my bow makin schedule.. :D ....I was up at 4:00 this morning and got a couple of hours to work on her and get the pages up.....Auditioning Guitar Players this afternoon for the band but I should get some more done tomorrow.......Terry
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: AZStickman on February 15, 2004, 07:42:00 PM: Well the guitar players flaked out so I had bowyering time today.... :D Got her to the short string..... Time to start stalking final tiller... Terry

http://mail4.cableaz.com/~tpetko/auctionbow12.htm
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: wingnut on February 15, 2004, 07:52:00 PM: Terry,

Keep an eye on the near wood on the right limb ya got the makings of a hinge working there. Looking good grass hopper. Now get them limbs moving.

Mike

LOL
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: '46 on February 15, 2004, 08:03:00 PM: Ditto what Mike said.........Lookin good.

Isn't that Century tree something else?
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: AZStickman on February 15, 2004, 08:42:00 PM: Gotcha guys... thanks.... :D .....This is a special stave for sure George......Terry
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: Steve on February 15, 2004, 08:54:00 PM: Terry - here'a a great trick I just discovered on a bow, could be helpful... If you have an area that's hinging or showing set early on due to an almosta hinge, just heat it with a heatgun and maybe backset that area some. Then lighten the rest of the bow around it, and go back to the tree. Hinge / set magically gone for good! Buildalong going great - keep at it... Steve
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: the Ferret on February 15, 2004, 09:49:00 PM: Terry (also Mike)I have my piece with the 3rd facet filed in it, and then flattened off and I understand now I go to the long string. Couple of Questions: (1)I cut the first 2 facets in at 3/8" then up to the peak in the center of the limb, then flattened the peak (about 1/4" flat strip down the center). If the bow is too strong do I recut the first 2 facets at 1/4" and start again? Once you start tillering on the long string you just scrape the flattened 3rd facet where needed to make it bend properly? (remember I'm a flat limb kinda guy... and this is my first Torges style faceted tiller job)

PS I have HOB but I like pestering you guys :D
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: DCM on February 15, 2004, 10:09:00 PM: Fine build along Terry. Like everybody said, the right limb is really flat in the center. Look for that wood to fade about 4# or 5#. It's as clean of osage as I've yet handled but the thick early rings will compress as you work it in. Leave yourself about 2" of draw length until you break it in good. Great post. Thanks.
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: AZStickman on February 16, 2004, 07:48:00 AM: Mickey.... You want the bow to be bending a bit before you cut in your 3rd facet....By using 1/4" facets for your 45-55# bows and 3/8" facets for your 60+# bows you'll be pretty close..... If the bow is stiff you keep scraping or rasping facets 1 &2 until you get her bending (Floor Tiller).... to long string tiller you mainly remove wood from facet #3 at the top but for every 20 scrapes on the Facet #3 I'll take 10 off facets #1 &2 initially..... as the bow gets to the short string and your stalking final tiller I may cut down on the Facet #1&2 scrapes to 5 for every 20 on facet#3...... and none on facets 1 &2 towards the last 4 or 5" ...Clear as mud now??...... :D .. Terry
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: AZStickman on February 16, 2004, 07:50:00 AM: Thanks for the heads up David.... I'll allow for that.... :D .... Terry
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: the Ferret on February 16, 2004, 07:53:00 AM: Yea that muddies it up pretty clear :confused:

I thought tillering like this it was supposed to just fall into place at least that's what all you guys keep saying.

Once you get it tillered do you round off all the edges of the facets and what does that do to weight and tiller?
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: wingnut on February 16, 2004, 08:19:00 AM: Mickey,

It's actually pretty easy. Starting with a bow blank laid out to the outline of the bow and with limbs 7/8 inch thick. I start by using a drawing compass set at 3/8". I strike my thickness lines on the side of the bow down both sides and through the handle. Next I cut the facets in from the lines to the center of the bow on the belly (1&2). This will give you a peak down the center. Use these facets to get the bow moving on floor tiller. Now put in #3 down the top. Use it to finish up the tiller. Adjust 1&2 for weight. After you do a few you can keep all three facets the same width an keep the limb right and regular through out the process.

When your down tillering use your scraper or bowyers edge to clean up the edges.

See easy. LOL

Mike
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: AZStickman on February 16, 2004, 10:19:00 AM: Steve I missed your post... That sounds like a neat trick.... I've had it in the back of my mind from the start that I would probably be doing a sinew job on this one...And with the auction happening late June earlu July it looks like I have plenty of time to get it done and cured........Terry
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: George Tsoukalas on February 16, 2004, 11:01:00 AM: Terry, you are good man. Very precise with your measurements too. The stave is looking good. I'm glad y'all like my tillering flages. Is there a link to this auction? I may do some hand made arrows for it. BTW I just changed a washer on my facet in the tub. Time to replace the kitchen sink now. :)
Jawge
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: AZStickman on February 16, 2004, 12:44:00 PM: Cool Jawge... Just as long as ya don't get Farrah out in your shop... I don't think the misses would understand....Well here's the bow pulling 55#@24"..... http://mail4.cableaz.com/~tpetko/auctionbow13.htm

Now I'm gonna fit her up with Horn Nocks
http://mail4.cableaz.com/~tpetko/hornnocks1.htm

And Sinew back her.....
http://mail4.cableaz.com/~tpetko/sinew.html

Then I'll tiller her out to a finished 55#@28".... Terry
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: George Tsoukalas on February 16, 2004, 01:45:00 PM: Terry, looks good. Nice tiller. Ya done good. What's with the sinew.
jawge
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: the Ferret on February 16, 2004, 03:00:00 PM: Have to agree with Jawge, why sinew a perfectly tillered osage bow with great growth rings? Unless you are trying add weight and a little reflex in which case I'd choose a crappier piece of wood for the project.
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: George Tsoukalas on February 16, 2004, 03:44:00 PM: How long is the stave, Terry?
Jawge
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: AZStickman on February 16, 2004, 04:20:00 PM: Jawge and Mickey.....I was thinking about sinewing to get a better profile on her...I'm right on target weight @55# but I am going to take her to a 28" draw..I have 2" of string follow right now 1" of it is natural deflex and 1" is set from tillering....But I tell ya this bow even at 24" draw right now is a straight shooting, smooth, hard hitting bow, I'm having second thoughts about the sinew job..I think I'll get a few more arrows through her than take her on to 28"....Jawge she is 66"overall 65 or so ntn...... Terry
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: the Ferret on February 16, 2004, 05:47:00 PM: Terry you really need to build you a caul and induce a nice even 2" of reflex into all your staves before tillering. Makes life a lot easier. The only bow I haven't reflexed in the last couple years is the snaky one (too curvy for the caul ha ha)
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: AZStickman on February 16, 2004, 06:25:00 PM: You're probably right Mickey.... I clamped this stave down with 1 1/2" of reflex figuring I'd get it to an even profile when I took her off.....and that's exactly where she came off at..... I also figured I'd lose back the initial 1" of deflex as I tillered but didn't think I'd pick up that extra inch..It's evenly distributed on both limbs though.....and she's a real zippy shooter....Maybe I'll just do as Steve suggested...4" of tiller leaves me a bit of room to play with..... :D Terry
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: the Ferret on February 16, 2004, 08:20:00 PM: Terry with my caul when you heat it and clamp it it starts reflexing a few inches out of the fade area and increases as you get closer to the tip. At the tip on a 64" bow it would have approx 2 3/4" of reflex if it kept it all which of course it doesn't. It loses about an inch coming off the caul leaving 1 3/4 inch of reflex at the tip. After tillering and shooting in I have about 1/2" reflex at the tip.

http://groups.msn.com/ferretsarcherywebpage/inducingreflex.msnw?Page=1

Now I must add I don't think it helps in the way of accuracy or speed but it leaves an unstrung profile that pleases most people.
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: George Tsoukalas on February 16, 2004, 08:57:00 PM: There's still time to reflex the last several inches of the deflexed limb. Tips don't bend anyway. For the record I just asked why you were sinewing; never said you shouldn't. That's up to you. But I was thinking it tho. :) Mickey knows me. :)
Jawge
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: AZStickman on February 17, 2004, 07:31:00 AM: Quote
Now I must add I don't think it helps in the way of accuracy or speed but it leaves an unstrung profile that pleases most people.
Mickey you said a mouthful there.....
:) Thanks......Terry
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: Steve on February 17, 2004, 11:05:00 AM: Terry - personally, Unless I was going to reflex a bow, or somehow induce reflex to improve the performance, I wouldn't do the sinew because it's to much work and may have issues in a wet climate. Then you have to consider snakeskin, or at least be very considerate of using a very watertight finish. You tiller just fine, and I'm sure you can get that stave to 28". also if there's no backing then you can use parrafin, which is super easy and foolproof. I just finished a bow done unbacked and parrafinned and she'a a fine bow. In fact I named her "simplicity". Sure we can make 'em with all the bells and whistles, but the end result is they all throw arras 'bout the same...Steve
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: wingnut on February 17, 2004, 11:42:00 AM: Terry,

bow looks real good, you learned well grasshopper. I would do as Mickey suggests and add a little reflex now on my cull. It's a trick I picked up from Bill McNiel. Tiller to about 3" from home and then heat it in the cull, let 'er cool and then finish the tiller. The finished profile is pleasing and the bow shoots back in to about even or a little better.

Mike
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: AZStickman on February 22, 2004, 11:45:00 AM: Well I followed the advice you guys threw out... :D
1.) As David suggested I shot the bow in real good...after 100 arrows she lost 4# just as he predicted.... Another 50 srrows showed no more change so I think we have her stabilized.

2.) I heat bent her on the caul as Mickey and Mike suggested.... My caul is set for 1 1/2" so I added a couple of 1" blocks at the handle area to get 2 1/2" of initial reflex and when she came off she was at 1 1/2" just as Mickey predicted.... Do ya see a pattern developing here???.... These boys know what they're talking about...... :D

3.) I flipped the tips just a bit as Jawge suggested and I now have a profile I like.....

Now I'm gonna go against the boys a bit here.... I am going to sinew this bow..... There are 2 schools of thought on this .... One is as Mickey says..... Use your sinew to better marginal wood.... and the second one that says sinew will only make a good bow that much better... " Sinew is magic"......Both schools are valid and I use em both in making my bows.....

Here's a look at the results of our heat bending session...
http://mail4.cableaz.com/~tpetko/auctionbow14.htm

Now I'm off to work a little magic.....and assure that I keep what I've gained on the cauls.... Terry
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: the Ferret on February 22, 2004, 10:50:00 PM: Bow has a nice profile Terry. How did you insure that you tweaked the tips the same amount?

I like a man that wears yellow dust on his T shirt :D
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: AZStickman on February 23, 2004, 07:37:00 AM: Mickey... I measured the gap between the jaws of the clamp..... I bent the first one til I liked how it looked.... Measured the gap and took the second one there.... :) .....Terry
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: the Ferret on February 23, 2004, 07:43:00 AM: Doh! I'd have never thought of that :knothead: too simple!

...good thinking :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: AZStickman on March 07, 2004, 01:13:00 PM: Here's an update on the Auction Bow..... Got the first course of sinew on her I let it set for a week and pounded out enough sinew for the second course this morning....Hoping to get it applied this afternoon after getting a few honeydos out of the way.... :) Terry

http://mail4.cableaz.com/~tpetko/auctionbow15.htm
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: Madpigslayer on March 07, 2004, 02:26:00 PM: I got a dumb question...do you have to prepare the dry surface of the sinew to accept the other layer? damp it? or how do you get it ready to accept the next layer? just curious.

cool build Terry, I am following along. :)
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: AZStickman on March 07, 2004, 03:05:00 PM: Not a dumb question at all Calvin....I am gonna sand it just a bit to get the little stickers nocked down.... Then I'll size it with a coating of hide glue just like I did on the wood for the first course......Terry
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: John Scifres on March 08, 2004, 01:03:00 PM: Wow Terry. I kinda lost track of this build-along. VERY NICE!

I love sinew. Especially now that I have moose sinew. It is so much easier to work with than deer. I can process enough sinew to do a bow in an hour and then lay it down in about another hour. I love it! I have a bagful of deer sinew processed that I haven't touched in 2 years. I guess I oughta trade it away or something.

Great job. Can't wait to see the next installment.
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: AZStickman on March 08, 2004, 02:29:00 PM: Thanks John..... I haven't worked with Moose sinew yet but I imagine it's real nice..... I am supposed to be getting the legs from 12 Emus here real soon and am looking forward to working with that......I got the second course on this bow yeaterday and looked at her this morning..... She's looking good......Now it's wait time...I'm glad I have two friendship bows and that Sleeved Yew takedown to keep me occupied... :) Terry
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: the Ferret on March 08, 2004, 04:24:00 PM: Terry, when you get around to doing your static tips please take some pics so I can see. Do you anticpate that you'll need string groves down the belly? or will the string lift off the curve when strung? Do you anticpate that there will be any problems with keeping the ears aligned?
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: AZStickman on March 08, 2004, 06:18:00 PM: Good Questions Mickey.... I didn't go real radical on the static tips just flipped them a bit so I'm hoping the string just lifts off em and I won't need to do string grooves on the belly.....The tips I'm gonna have to wait and see on.... One looks perfect the other might take a slight bit of tweaking or it might not...... I got pretty lucky on the heat bending....We'll see how the string alignment looks through the handle when I get her on the short string again....I'll be posting pics..... :) Terry
Title: Re: Saint Jude Auction Bow Build Along
Post by: AZStickman on May 05, 2004, 08:30:00 AM: Here's a pic of the Auction Bow just before I took her off the sinew form last night...She came out with a nice bit of reflex that should hold nicely.. she's also been fitted with diamondback snakesking and Elk antler nock overlays.....started shaping the overlays last night and am ready to start taking this bow down the home stretch.....Terry
http://bowyersworkshop.com/snakesin.htm