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Topic Archives => Build Alongs => Topic started by: AZStickman on January 20, 2006, 06:01:00 PM
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Last Year at Javie camp Mickey and I agreed to do a friendship bow swap. Last July or August he sent me Beetlejuice a wonderful lil Osage air backed bow. I didn't get to build any bows last year with a new job,Family and personal committments taking first priority on my time. This is the start of my half of our bow swap....It will be a 40#@27", 62" tip to tip, 59" nock to nock, rigid handle, air backed Osage bow. I have taken this stave down to one ring..... Layed her out Like this (This is not the actual bow)
http://www.bowyersworkshop.com/auctionbow3.htm
Established the facets like this (again not the actual bow)
http://www.bowyersworkshop.com/auctionbow8.htm
Roughed in the nocks Like this (still not the actual bow)
http://www.bowyersworkshop.com/auctionbow10.htm
When I got her bending a bit I was ready to start finessing the tiller. My goal when tillering is to retain as much of the bows original profile throughout the process. Here is out bows original profile:
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/tpetko/Ferret%20Friendship%20Bow/Ferretstartprofile.jpg)
Here she is showing the long string ( The long string is as tight as I can get it without bending the bow. Notice the string alignment she came in pretty good all by herself.
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/tpetko/Ferret%20Friendship%20Bow/FerretLongstringcombo.jpg)
I then work on getting the inner third of each limb (the 1/3 closest to the handle) moving first. Then I focus on getting the middle 1/3 bending, and just a bit of the outer 1/3 bending to within 6" of the tips. This is the critical part for me, if I am going to put set in a bow limb it's usually between here and the first brace with the short string.
I will take twenty or so scrapes off each outside facet and half that off the center facet and chect her out on the tree. I only pull as far as it takes to see something wrong. i.e. if I see a stiff spot at 20# I stop and fix it, If I see one limb tip moving farther than the other I stop and even them up. This is where the finesse comes in. It's not a race to the finish and patience is key.
With this bow we had everything pretty much right and regular when the limb tips were moving about 5".....
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/tpetko/Ferret%20Friendship%20Bow/Ferrettill1.jpg)
Now I like to stick brace the bow. (don't do this unless your limbs are bending uniformly and both limbs are even or you will induce set. I am using my Dean Torges Bowyers edge (11" long) to brace the bow.
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/tpetko/Ferret%20Friendship%20Bow/Ferretstickbrace.jpg)
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I then take my cabinet scraper and set it on edge on the belly of the bow and hold it up to the light . You should be able to see a gap between the scraper and the belly of the bow.
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/tpetko/Ferret%20Friendship%20Bow/Ferretck1.jpg)
I move it up each limb from inner limb to outer. If you see a flat spot I mark it. do this on both limbs.
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/tpetko/Ferret%20Friendship%20Bow/Ferretck2.jpg)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/tpetko/Ferret%20Friendship%20Bow/Ferretck3.jpg)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/tpetko/Ferret%20Friendship%20Bow/Ferretck4.jpg)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/tpetko/Ferret%20Friendship%20Bow/Ferretck5.jpg)
I let the gap thin out a bit towards the tips (I like my tips just a bit stiff but bending. If you have any flat spots where the scraper edge touches the belly mark it. take the stick out, Take 10 or so scrapes off the side facets at the flat spot and 5 or so off the center facet, excercise the bow 10 - 20 times on the tree and repeat the stick Brace procedure.
Here is our bow after the first stick brace session. The limb tips are now moving about 6"
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/tpetko/Ferret%20Friendship%20Bow/Ferrettill2.jpg)
Now I will keep tillering the bow in this fashion until I get the limb tips moving 10-12". Again remember there's no rush this is where patience is king, finesse that tiller. When the tips are moving 10-12" we will be ready to move on to the short string
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Nice little tiutorial there Terry. Of course the bow in the pictures isn't Mickey's tho, Right? :bigsmyl:
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LOL.... The bow in the Pics you can see is Mickeys.. (heck with my release I'd have to glue two 40# ers together to get a clean loose)...The bow in the clickable Links is the Saint Jude Auction Bow George (ol'46) wound up with two years ago... Terry
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well this one will be particularly interesting thread to watch :bigsmyl: Like what I'm seeing so far!
Anything between 40# & 47# Terry. If ya come in high 40's with a good tiller, don't scrape no more!
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I can nail it where ya want her Mickey... I can't for the life of me remember where I got this stave but it's a dandy...I've been working her at 45# on the tree is 27" right on the draw? .... Terry
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She looks good so far, terry. jawge
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Quite the "finesser" Terry! :thumbsup:
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yep 27" draw is good, 45# is good as well
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Timo..... I learned from the best.... If you guys out there that are starting out want to accelerate your learning curve just post the finished pics of your bows unstrung, braced and at full draw on here and ask these guys to honestly critique your tiller.... It takes some guts to do that and you might not like what you hear especially if you've spent hours creating what you thought was a perfect tiller only to have David Mims or Timo or Mickey, Jawge, Rusry, Mike or a host of others point out a flat spot on the lower limb..... and when you get to looking at it they're right..... But the flip side of the coin is when ya finally come up with one that these guys say ya nailed it on.....Well it just doesn't get any better than that.... Thanks to all of you that take the time to help us hacks nail one every now and then.... :thumbsup: :notworthy: Terry
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I don't see no more pitchers Terry. Just a bunch of flowerdy talk. Sun ain't up high enough out there for you to get back to work? ;-)
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LOL.....Just got in from the shop I'm downloading them now David..... Terry
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Here's our starting profile at the beginning of session 2:
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/tpetko/Ferret%20Friendship%20Bow/Session2/StartProfileSession2.jpg)
There's two things I try to focus on when tillering. One getting each limb bending uniformly along the working length, and Two keeping each limb bending even with each other. The closer we can keep these to perfect throughout the process the less set we will induce.
This bow is pretty straight forward grain wise except for a little dip in the top limb I'm having to baby along:
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/tpetko/Ferret%20Friendship%20Bow/Session2/GrainTopLimb.jpg)
Following the steps I outlined in Session 1 here's our bow with the tips moving 8" :
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/tpetko/Ferret%20Friendship%20Bow/Session2/Tipsmoving8inches.jpg)
9 Inches;
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/tpetko/Ferret%20Friendship%20Bow/Session2/TipsMoving9inches.jpg)
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And 10 Inches:
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/tpetko/Ferret%20Friendship%20Bow/Session2/TipsMoving10inches.jpg)
She's starting to show a little stiff coming out of the fades but we're ready to go to my longer 12" brace stick. I've worked the fades a bit and they are looking better but the bottom limb (Left Limb)is showing a bit strong:
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/tpetko/Ferret%20Friendship%20Bow/Session2/12inchbracestickbottomlimbstrong.jpg)
Better but still a bit strong:
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/tpetko/Ferret%20Friendship%20Bow/Session2/12inchbracestickbottomlimbstillstro.jpg)
And now they're even :
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/tpetko/Ferret%20Friendship%20Bow/Session2/12inchbracesticklimbseven.jpg)
We now have the tips moving 10" with both limbs bending nice and uniform along their working length and even with each other. In session 3 we will brace her up low on the short string.
Here's our finished profile after session 2:
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/tpetko/Ferret%20Friendship%20Bow/Session2/FinishProfileSession2.jpg)
Pretty close to where we started this session. I may have lost a little on the bottom limb. We'll see how she looks after she's rested at the start of session 3.
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Nice work Terry, shes lookin good.
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Terry, needs a bit more mid limb on. Ya think? :) Jawge
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Yep Jawge.....
Here's our starting profile for session 3:
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/tpetko/Ferret%20Friendship%20Bow/Session3/StartProfileSession3.jpg)
I took some scrapes from Mid limb out on both limbs and braced her low:
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/tpetko/Ferret%20Friendship%20Bow/Session3/LowBrace.jpg)
Then braced her high, Bottom Limb (Left)looking a bit strong here:
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/tpetko/Ferret%20Friendship%20Bow/Session3/HighBrace.jpg)
Took some shavings off and here she is 45#@23". Mid Limb out still looking stiff:
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/tpetko/Ferret%20Friendship%20Bow/Session3/HighBrace.jpg)
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Here's 45#@25". She's getting thin and I feel like I'm not gaining any ground on the Mid Limb out area.
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/tpetko/Ferret%20Friendship%20Bow/Session3/4525.jpg)
Session 3 Finished Profile I've picked up a bit over an inch of set on the bottom limb and about half an inch on the top:
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/tpetko/Ferret%20Friendship%20Bow/Session3/FinishProfileSession3.jpg)
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(http://home.midsouth.rr.com/ddmims/4525.jpg)
I'm confused Terry. Which is the stiffer limb? Which is the upper? Have you measured the tiller?
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David The upper limb is on the right.... There some adjustments between the High Brace pic and the 45#@25" pic.... The wood is getting thin and it only takes a few scrapes to move things one way or another...I've been using the sandpaper more than the scraper on the last couple of adjustments...... I quit when I thought I had em close and took a break.... Top limb is reading 5 3/8", 4" out from the fades and the bottom limb is at 5 7/8".....Terry
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Must be the lighting in the pictures, the right limb looks stiffer, full draw the right looks stiffer as well.
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You're seeing it right Dano.... Terry
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Now I'm confused :D If the right limb is the upper, how can you have positive tiller? I'm missing something.
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Dano's right. Mid limb out right limb or make it the bottom limb. Looks good. jawge
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Top limb is reading 5 3/8", 4" out from the fades and the bottom limb is at 5 7/8".....
Bottom limb is positive not the top.... ;) I've got some room to make adjustments but not much... I may wind up flipping them we'll see tomorrow...... Terry
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Gotcha Terry :D
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Terry real tough to not pick up follow on a 59" bow pulling 27" that started out basically flat. Should be a smooth drawer and shoote though. Gosh that's making wood bend :scared: (btw that's only 1" longer than the Torges bow challenge bow requirement)
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Here's our starting profile for session 4 My goal this session is to get our tiller evened out and hopefully still make weight:
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/tpetko/Ferret%20Friendship%20Bow/Session4/Session4StartProfile.jpg)
After some careful scraping on the top limb (right)I have a 3/16 negative tiller. The string alignment seems to favor the bottom limb up and the tiller is leaning the same direction so I'm going to go with it. the left limb is now officially my top limb... Just when I got Dano unconfused....Sorry Dano :D :
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/tpetko/Ferret%20Friendship%20Bow/Session4/LimbsThreeSixteenthsNegativeTiller.jpg)
Here she is pulling 38#@26". Looks like I missed weight by a little. She kind of hits a wall at full draw due to the string angle:
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/tpetko/Ferret%20Friendship%20Bow/Session4/38at26.jpg)
And here's our finished session 4 profile:
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/tpetko/Ferret%20Friendship%20Bow/Session4/Session4FinishProfile.jpg)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f91/tpetko/Ferret%20Friendship%20Bow/Session4/LimbCombo.jpg)
Lessons learned:
For an Osage bow this short with a low target draw weight I'd make the limbs a little narrower next time. On a heavier bow you would still have enough thickness to keep the tillering relatively easy. With this bow my limbs finished out much thinner than I'm used to. The rule is twice as wide twice as strong but twice as thick 8 times as strong. So when you have thin limbs just a few shavings make a bigger difference.
Bow limbs run out of bend when the string angle hits around 90 degrees.... If you want to hit 27 or 28" on a short bow like this you need to flip the tips to keep the string angle down.
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Thanks for sharing Terry. Good stuff Bro. :)
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I lost trak,... where's the upper limb? :scared:
Nice !!
manny
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LOL.... Quit it Manny now I'm getting confused...and Thank You Mike.... BTW I just took a trick from Davids book and added the Limb on Limb combo pic to the session 4 post... Terry
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ok Terry ..only one way to get the weight back up..elk sinew :bigsmyl:
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Mickey ya know me too well.... I've got some of the prettiest stripped Elk sinew you've ever seen that I've been saving for a special project... It might look familiar to you... :D I'm gonna go ahead and get the handle shaped and then get her backed .... This is my last Osage stave I've got to make it work.... Terry
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WOW Terry.Looking good.Sure making those limbs bend. :thumbsup:
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:bigsmyl: Cool another builalong to look forward to. I'm cornfused all the time Terry it ain't your fault. BTW tiller looks great, too bad you missed wieght. Good lessons learned tho.
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Terry, you got a beautyful tiller. Well done. Set happens. :) Jawge
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Terry, she's looking really fine bud. A little sinew will work it's magic and bring her up in weight. Nice bow and a fine tiller.
Was that stave one that I might know? :)
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George I was drawing a blank on where I got it... I think my memory was just jogged.... :D Thanks Bud..... Terry
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Sinew now ??
Looking forward to this.
Manny