Post by: Sparky on December 12, 2004, 07:22:00 PM
David Mimms gave me this awesome stave of Elm about three years or so ago. This is da little split that came off when I kerfed the stave ta get two. Lemmie tell ya..if ya never split Elm..ya's in for a treat. That dang stuff is WAY harder ta split than Osage..and for that I thank ya Dave (and the Stave).
This lil' piece of wood was just wanting to be a Holmegaard. I have always admired these bows. The first and only one I ever saw was Sean (aka Hooligan) at MoJam. I saw it shoot and BOY was it sweet..and neat to look at as well. Well enough of that...lets get on with the build. Please bear with me as my time to work is spotty at best. Ya ready...first installments...
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/sparkylongbow/my_photos
Sparky
Post by: DCM on December 12, 2004, 07:29:00 PM
Did you get the twist out of that stave?
If the bow you are making is what I think it is, be careful on the outer fade. From what I gather, that's the key to the design.
Post by: Dano on December 12, 2004, 07:34:00 PM
Post by: Sparky on December 12, 2004, 07:37:00 PM
Sparky
Post by: Dano on December 12, 2004, 07:44:00 PM
Post by: Sparky on December 12, 2004, 07:53:00 PM
Sparky
Post by: Dano on December 12, 2004, 07:57:00 PM
Post by: Sparky on December 12, 2004, 07:59:00 PM
Notice the Caul...this I give credit to Mickey...he has a awesome design on his site to induce reflex into your stave, mine is a bit less radical but non the less...for all you new guys...
Sparky
Post by: Sparky on December 12, 2004, 08:02:00 PM
Post by: Luke Vander Vennen on December 12, 2004, 08:19:00 PM
Post by: Dano on December 12, 2004, 08:29:00 PM
Post by: Sparky on December 12, 2004, 08:34:00 PM
it was a hunter/gathers type bow typical of the times, but superior by engineering means.
A 9,000 year old artifact has been researched and documented.
Thanks,
Sparky
Post by: Meathook on December 12, 2004, 08:41:00 PM
Post by: Madpigslayer on December 12, 2004, 11:33:00 PM
Post by: John Cooper on December 12, 2004, 11:40:00 PM
~John
Post by: Timo on December 13, 2004, 06:59:00 AM
Post by: AZStickman on December 13, 2004, 07:42:00 AM
Post by: Marvin M. on December 13, 2004, 09:58:00 AM
Post by: Linc on December 13, 2004, 06:32:00 PM
Post by: Sparky on December 13, 2004, 10:07:00 PM
Meat..gonna try we'll see.
Marvin...hey go for it. Ya never know till ya try.
Linc...I bet that VM would make a gooden'
New pics added. Got her profile roughed out. Houston we have a problem! Looks like we got a wind check right at the top growth ring near the tip. It will remain stiff so I think I can be creative and do a fix on it but it ain't purty. Pic is kinda blurry, but it is definately there.
Got some shaping and profiling to do. I left myself some fudge room to work with.
Stats: 66" long will be 65" ntn. 6" grip, 2" wide up 13" tapering gradually to 1/2" nocks. Going for a circular tiller as legacy indicated with the tips being just able to bend. I tried to make this as close to the original dimensions as I could find, but is not completely accurate.
Hopefully more to come tomorrow.
Sparky
Post by: Timo on December 13, 2004, 10:23:00 PM
Keep um coming!
Post by: gifford on December 13, 2004, 10:41:00 PM
IRRC the original is in Denmark. Eric Callahan of flintknapping fame and the Bulletin of Primitive Technology actually handled the original and made measurements and has a replica cast of it as well.
Like others have said - "I think I partied in the 60's - don't rightly recall anymore"
Post by: the Ferret on December 13, 2004, 10:52:00 PM
I have Tim Hamblin's Holmegard bow "Holm Boy". If ya need me to take any pics or measurements, just shout.
Post by: Sparky on December 13, 2004, 11:02:00 PM
Sparky
Post by: Sparky on December 13, 2004, 11:08:00 PM
David has helped me so much in my endeavors I feel it only fitting it goes back to him...Shhhh don't tell him tho.
Sparky
Post by: trashwood on December 13, 2004, 11:19:00 PM
at boy got talent :)
rusty
Post by: trashwood on December 13, 2004, 11:19:00 PM
rusty
Post by: Sparky on December 13, 2004, 11:28:00 PM
Sparky
Post by: Dano on December 14, 2004, 07:36:00 AM
Post by: DCM on December 14, 2004, 08:29:00 AM
On the bow, I'd warm the wind check, super glue it with some of the better quality thin glue and clamp it. Chances are you'll be fine but I really couldn't see anything in the pic.
On the tiller, Holms are tricky. I think you want the wide wood to work. That will make your tiller more stiff ended. I haven't tried that particular width profile but I have read it's a beach to get the width taper to work because of the pronounced transition from strenght in width to strenght in thickness.
By my reckoning you are a little scarce on wood for much bow at 29". This is probably fortunate because 50# @ 29" is all I care to shoot. If you keep it dry I expect you can make that without too much follow. Try to steal as much work out of the handle section as you can.
I know ya'll have all seen this pic a thousand times but for comparision, it's 65" NTN and 2" wide nearly full lenght. As you can see, you have to really work a 65" stiff handled bow to get 29".
http://home.midsouth.rr.com/ddmims/eb8.JPG
Post by: kyle on December 14, 2004, 10:41:00 AM
Kyle
Post by: Marvin M. on December 14, 2004, 10:52:00 AM
That one pic looks way too clean. Are you using a bandsaw?
Maybe that is my problem. I've only got hand tools. Takes forever to take one down to that shape. Now I see my problem.
Marvin
Post by: Richard Saffold on December 14, 2004, 11:43:00 AM
Post by: the Ferret on December 14, 2004, 04:37:00 PM
It measures .470 thick at the end of the fades and more or less carries that the length of the limb until you get close to the tip where it measures 1/2" thick.
Gonna be 8 photos in all
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/theferret111/holmboy1.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/theferret111/holmboy2.jpg)
Post by: the Ferret on December 14, 2004, 04:38:00 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/theferret111/holmboy4.jpg)
Post by: the Ferret on December 14, 2004, 04:38:00 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/theferret111/holmboy6.jpg)
Post by: the Ferret on December 14, 2004, 04:39:00 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/theferret111/holmboy8.jpg)
Post by: AZStickman on December 14, 2004, 04:44:00 PM
Post by: Marvin M. on December 14, 2004, 05:18:00 PM
Post by: Linc on December 14, 2004, 06:09:00 PM
Post by: Dano on December 14, 2004, 06:25:00 PM
Post by: mich-mtnman on December 14, 2004, 07:29:00 PM
im waiting to see more progress from sparky.
Post by: Sparky on December 14, 2004, 08:17:00 PM
!["[dead]"]("graemlins/dead.gif" "\"\"")
Mickey, thanks bud...what a neat bow. I like the nocks. From what I have read, those are period correct for that bow. Tim did a bang up job.
My dimensions are close to his with a few exceptions. I have 1" fades at da grip and the wide part will be 1 15/16 tapering to 1 5/8 over 13"...then the outer fades to 1" gradual taper to 1/2" over 16" at the nocks.
I sure appreciate the dimensions. I printed them off and stuck them in my book 'o' bow stuff... :D
How does the bow shoot Mickey...is it dead in the hand as legacy predicted..LOL Thanks again Bro.
I am still pondering the wind check..have several options at hand. Thanks to all following along for the nice comments. Dave, your threads on eyeballin' tiller have helped me more than you will ever know. Ya even got pop pokin his pinky out...LOL
Sorry so long winded...maybe I'll get a chance to get at her tomorrow.
Sparky
Post by: Sparky on December 14, 2004, 08:21:00 PM
Sparky
Post by: the Ferret on December 14, 2004, 08:34:00 PM
Post by: Bob Barnes on December 14, 2004, 11:10:00 PM
Bob
Post by: Marvin M. on December 15, 2004, 08:27:00 AM
Let's see, "Gee Honey, if I had a band saw I could repair that broken board on the privacy fence!!!" Wonder if that would work?
Post by: Linc on December 15, 2004, 05:46:00 PM
Post by: Sparky on December 15, 2004, 07:38:00 PM
I got a lil' bit done tonite...new pics up if ya wanna look. The wind check has all but dissapeared from the tips with a little shaping in that area. It still remains but I believe will dissappear after final shaping of the tips.
I broke out the ol' spokeshave tonite. Lemmie tell ya on white wood straight wood...the curls come off like buttah' as Jawge would say :bigsmyl:
All for now...Merry Christmas all
Sparky
Post by: George Tsoukalas on December 15, 2004, 07:50:00 PM
jawge
Post by: Bob Barnes on December 15, 2004, 08:28:00 PM
Bob
Post by: DCM on December 15, 2004, 08:44:00 PM
Post by: Irondog on December 15, 2004, 08:48:00 PM
Post by: Sparky on December 15, 2004, 09:04:00 PM
I am interested in the transitional area in the outer limbs. The information I have been able to come up with doesn't address those areas in very much detail. I have came up with what I thought it should look like but it is only a stab in the dark.
Thanks again Bob..I printed your off as well for my goodie book. :bigsmyl:
Sparky
Post by: Bob Barnes on December 15, 2004, 09:35:00 PM
Bob
Post by: Sparky on December 15, 2004, 09:46:00 PM
Sparky
Post by: Bob Barnes on December 15, 2004, 11:42:00 PM
Bob
Post by: Meathook on December 16, 2004, 11:52:00 AM
(http://www.tradgang.com/dh/bobholm1.JPG)
(http://www.tradgang.com/dh/bobholm2.JPG)
(http://www.tradgang.com/dh/bobholm3.JPG)
(http://www.tradgang.com/dh/bobholm4.JPG)
Post by: Dano on December 16, 2004, 12:59:00 PM
Post by: the Ferret on December 16, 2004, 02:05:00 PM
Post by: Sparky on December 16, 2004, 07:12:00 PM
Nuttin tonight...gonna take my beautiful bride out to eat Fajitas.
Hopefully more tomorrow...
Sparky
Post by: Dano on December 16, 2004, 07:58:00 PM
Post by: Madpigslayer on December 17, 2004, 12:14:00 AM
Post by: Bob Barnes on December 17, 2004, 07:29:00 AM
Bob
Post by: Dano on December 17, 2004, 07:41:00 AM
Post by: Richard Saffold on December 17, 2004, 11:46:00 AM
Post by: Texoma Felton on December 17, 2004, 04:42:00 PM
Post by: Dano on December 17, 2004, 05:48:00 PM
Post by: Sparky on December 18, 2004, 08:37:00 PM
Sparky
Post by: AZStickman on December 18, 2004, 08:52:00 PM
Post by: Sparky on December 21, 2004, 06:28:00 PM
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/sparkylongbow/my_photos
Sparky
Post by: Dano on December 21, 2004, 06:46:00 PM
Post by: Linc on December 21, 2004, 07:05:00 PM
Post by: Sparky on December 21, 2004, 08:12:00 PM
May have missed my tiller a lil' bit as far as keeping the tips stiff...we'll see... ;)
Sparky
Post by: Dano on December 21, 2004, 08:18:00 PM
Post by: Sparky on December 21, 2004, 08:24:00 PM
I think the original intent was to combine stiffer tips and a circular tiller without having the unwantd string angle and resulting stack associated with circular tiller bows. They are still stiff...but just start to bend comming out of the outer transitions.
Sparky
Post by: Dano on December 21, 2004, 08:28:00 PM
Post by: Sparky on December 26, 2004, 05:49:00 PM
Anyhow have a look if ya want...
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/sparkylongbow/my_photos
Sparky
Post by: Linc on December 26, 2004, 05:55:00 PM
Post by: Sparky on December 26, 2004, 06:02:00 PM
Sparky
Post by: Linc on December 26, 2004, 06:04:00 PM
Post by: Dano on December 26, 2004, 06:17:00 PM
Post by: Sparky on December 26, 2004, 06:33:00 PM
I added more pics...maybe these look a little better.
Sparky
Post by: Dano on December 26, 2004, 07:46:00 PM
Post by: DCM on December 26, 2004, 08:05:00 PM
Post by: the Ferret on December 26, 2004, 08:15:00 PM
You know he can take those kind of pics cause he's so dang tall David. The rest of us can't bend over far enough to get it centered without falling over ha ha
Post by: DCM on December 26, 2004, 08:17:00 PM
Post by: Sparky on December 26, 2004, 08:49:00 PM
Thanks fellers, I will give up the weight if needed to nail the tiller on this one. I don't really have it to spare tho...might just turn out to be a girly wight bow... :knothead:
I'm gonna bring the limbs around a little more tomorrow. Gonna try to leave the last 6" or so...where the profile stacks (ELB'ish) stiff if I can. I have a deflex spot on one end at the tip that is giving me fits.
Sparky
Post by: Linc on December 27, 2004, 04:47:00 AM
Post by: Sparky on December 27, 2004, 07:09:00 PM
Nuttin tonight..hadda work late...mebe tomorrow.
Sparky
Post by: **DONOTDELETE** on December 27, 2004, 11:36:00 PM
as well the TBB suggests that these bows were made backwards so that the outside of the tree would be the belly. Is this whats been done here? I would love to try that myself.
Post by: Linc on December 28, 2004, 04:33:00 AM
Post by: Sparky on December 29, 2004, 10:31:00 AM
This particular design will have a stiff handle section. Based on the legacy dimensions the original may have had a bending handle section.
Some of the experts believe the original assumption to be incorrect on the back/belly controversy. They now believe the original bow was made from a sapling with the back of the bow being the outer side of the tree.
Linc, stay with it buddy...i'll be watching... :thumbsup:
Sparky
Post by: Sparky on December 30, 2004, 08:48:00 PM
She took on about 1 1/8" of set due to my poor tiller skills and the fact that I couldn't seem to keep the wood dry. It always felt wet to me.
Anyway if ya wanna have a look ya can...i'll put up some strung and full draw pics tomorrow. This has been a fun one, but I doubt i'll make another.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/sparkylongbow/my_photos
Sparky
Post by: Meathook on December 30, 2004, 08:55:00 PM
Post by: Dano on December 30, 2004, 08:56:00 PM
Post by: NEW GUY on December 30, 2004, 10:57:00 PM
Fun stuff, eh?
Post by: Sparky on December 31, 2004, 12:18:00 AM
"Artsy fartsy stuff"...he he he...is dat kinda like "poofey"?... :bigsmyl:
Thanks NG...fun indeed
Sparky
Post by: Madpigslayer on December 31, 2004, 01:15:00 AM
"you doubt you will build another one" is that becuase you have another style in mind to build next ???!!!
:)
Post by: Linc on December 31, 2004, 04:46:00 AM
Post by: Walkingstick on December 31, 2004, 07:44:00 AM
Post by: trashwood on December 31, 2004, 08:38:00 AM
rusty
Post by: AZStickman on December 31, 2004, 10:19:00 AM
Post by: Sparky on December 31, 2004, 08:17:00 PM
Thanks Linc, yep it's a shooter. Came out at about 48# @ 29". Pretty fun bow to shoot. No hand shock.
Thanks Mac, appreciate it...it was fun to do. I like the Elm wood as much as Hickory.
Rusty, if a feller could get some weight and a good tiller out of this design, I believe it would be superior to a lot of designs.
:bigsmyl: ..Terry, he he he...David will have to take care of that. Yeah...I learned a bunch on dis one, especially that i can't tiller worthg a hoot....LOL It was a lot of fun tho.
Got some full draw pics up...not my best tiller, but it'll have to do.
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/sparkylongbow/my_photos
Sparky
Post by: Dano on December 31, 2004, 08:50:00 PM
Post by: gifford on December 31, 2004, 09:20:00 PM
Post by: Madpigslayer on December 31, 2004, 09:27:00 PM
Post by: Sparky on December 31, 2004, 10:16:00 PM
I chased the dang tiller back and fourth on this one more than any other. I finally had to stop and say fini...LOL.
Thanks again Calvin..."Pop" is here now and say's hey!
Sparky
Post by: Dano on December 31, 2004, 10:20:00 PM
Post by: Timo on December 31, 2004, 10:33:00 PM
Do you think that osage could carry a thinner design?
Post by: Sparky on December 31, 2004, 10:34:00 PM
Sparky
Post by: Madpigslayer on December 31, 2004, 10:49:00 PM
I got home from work an hour ago, grabbed the closest stave, and chased a ring. that's where I is now. (and 2 beers :eek: ) I think I might be to the tree by 12. might as well? I got nuthing better to do!!!
newyearsbow2004. whadyathink?!!!
cheers! gotta get back to work!! I only got 3 more hours till 12. I aint going to sleep till its either broken, or shooting.
how ya like them apples?!!!!
:wavey:
!["[tunglaff]"]("graemlins/tunglaff.gif" "\"\"")
Post by: Sparky on December 31, 2004, 10:52:00 PM
Just my thoughts...Happy New Year Bud!
Sparky
Post by: Timo on December 31, 2004, 10:57:00 PM
Timo say....Is there something better to do??? :confused:
Betcha can't doit?
still can't gat any emails through bud!
Post by: Huntrdfk on December 31, 2004, 11:00:00 PM
I've been thinking all night of starting another bow, only thing is I don't think it would be a good time to start with my wife and kids still up. I'll wait till tomorrow, but will be checking for yours. Good luck.
David
Post by: Madpigslayer on December 31, 2004, 11:11:00 PM
Timo, answer your phone.
Post by: Dano on December 31, 2004, 11:13:00 PM
It's so sad to see a bow-addict start off a new year this way :bigsmyl:
Post by: Sparky on December 31, 2004, 11:17:00 PM
Sparky
Post by: Dano on December 31, 2004, 11:29:00 PM
!["[dntthnk]"]("graemlins/dntthnk.gif" "\"\"")
Post by: Timo on January 01, 2005, 12:04:00 AM
Also, he is useing a piece of mo. hedge, so chances are good for the outcome????
We will see!
Post by: Madpigslayer on January 01, 2005, 12:04:00 AM
gotta run, gotta bow to "build" HAHAHAHA
Post by: Madpigslayer on January 01, 2005, 12:04:00 AM
Post by: Sparky on January 01, 2005, 12:09:00 AM
Sparky
Post by: Dano on January 01, 2005, 12:16:00 AM
Post by: Madpigslayer on January 01, 2005, 01:14:00 AM
gotta git...back in a bit.
Post by: Sparky on January 01, 2005, 01:49:00 AM
Sparky (never had a double coyote....yet)
Post by: Madpigslayer on January 01, 2005, 02:08:00 AM
got her to rough floor tiller...almost exhausted...should be able to hit the tree within 20 minutes. I missed the 12 thing, on the table sander. I cant relly think of a better way to go into the new year.
Hopefully it's a sign!!! :)
Post by: Madpigslayer on January 01, 2005, 02:10:00 AM
Post by: Sparky on January 01, 2005, 02:12:00 AM
Sparky
Post by: Madpigslayer on January 01, 2005, 02:12:00 AM
Post by: Glasspoint on January 01, 2005, 03:15:00 AM
Get her on the tree then Go To Sleep. We can't unnerstand what yer typin' :help: !
Raisin' one for ya!
GP
Post by: Glasspoint on January 01, 2005, 03:18:00 AM
I tried one a while back but chickened out, turned it into a narrowish kids bow.
Hafta try again, now that I've seen how it's done :notworthy: . Thanks for the build along!
Post by: Sparky on January 01, 2005, 05:13:00 AM
The whole meaning behind this thing was to present somthing to a friend that has been more than kind to me. I hope he has as much fun shooting it as I had making it.
I first met David Mimms at Mo Jam. I had arrived late and most of the "choice" spots were taken. This feller comes up to my truck window and introductions were passed and he says..." hell just pull in right here...I can move over and make ya a spot right here". I did and the rest is history...LOL
He's a nice feller with a exceptional eye for bow tillerin'...and I am proud to call him my friend.
Sparky
Post by: Linc on January 01, 2005, 08:23:00 PM
I think after I get a few more bows made from the gotta do list I'll be trying the Holmegaard with some of this vine maple I have.Tillering looks like it will be a nightmare.It will be tough for me because most of my bows are freestyle and don't follow any particular partern or design.Never could stay inside the lines.
Post by: DCM on January 02, 2005, 06:19:00 PM
Thanks bud. I can't wait to shoot it. I'll bring me some proper arras to MoJam and we'll try her out.
The art looks really cool too. Kokopelli - fertility God. Great, at 42 yo that's just about what I need. How did you know? Been talkin to my ole lady have you? ;-)
Post by: Sparky on January 02, 2005, 06:40:00 PM
I was shooting it again today...It shoots good. Very small thump in the hand. Not a blazer by any means but ya could shoot it all day long and never get tired. I am more eager to try one from Osage as time goes on LOL. Kokopelli is also said to spread wealth to the masses, like you so eagerly share your tiller'n eye to help lots of folks.
Glad you like it...
Sparky
Sparky
Post by: Rod Parsons on February 07, 2005, 12:07:00 PM
The narrow tips are not the only identifying characteristic of a Holmegaard, it is also a small diameter split, unworked crown on the back and a worked flat belly.
This is why it was first mistaken for a "backwards" bow until Fleming Alrune and Erret Callahan showed the way by making their replicas.
A minor detail on the tillering, the handle is thick enough that it won't bend, but the replicas show that a Holmegaard does bend right out of the handle.
If I could figure out how to post a picture on here I would post a photo of my first one in hickory, which was the closest in tiller out of the three to a replica (for a flat backed hickory bow).
Rod.
Post by: Sparky on February 07, 2005, 07:13:00 PM
Thanks again for the comments...
Cheers..
Sparks
Post by: Rod Parsons on February 07, 2005, 09:26:00 PM
I'll see if I can send you the hickory no.1 picture, it was my nearest to the right tiller.
The next two got a little "sophisticated".
Rod.