Trad Gang
Topic Archives => Build Alongs => Topic started by: Many Arrows Lost on February 03, 2006, 02:56:00 AM
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I have not seen too many fiberglass buildalongs and since this is a special longbow, I thought I'd slow down and share it with you all. I'm wanting a longbow around #50 to be sold in a silent auction to benefit the Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award Banquet on 2/23/06 here in Fairbanks. This is a unique opportunity for my two life passions to come together honoring those who have paved the way in my profession with something creative from my hobbie.
My creative juices have been flowing lately and I have decided that this is the time to launch something new...a multi-wood limb veneer.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex035.jpg)
The woods I have chosen are Cocobolo, Yew and Black Walnut. All three will be in the handle. I'll have two Black Walnut tapers for a core and the veneer will be spliced Cocobolo and Yew. The tips will be 1/16" black phenolic topped with Yew and Cocobolo.
Here's what I got done tonight:
First I spliced what I hope to become my veneer. Being in a somewhat nostalgic mode about aviation I made my splicecut to the standards required to repair a wooden airplane spar. (For every inch of thichness the cut must travel seven inches. My limb is 1.5 inches thick so the cut was 10.5 inches long.)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex033.jpg)
Here's the glue-up.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex036.jpg)
This is the handle glue up. Going through the block of Cocobolo are 2 .060 strips of yew bracketing a .120 strip of Black Walnut. Approx. 3/8" below and 1/4" above that stripe are .060 strips of Yew again.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex037.jpg)
I use West System marine epoxy to glue up handles. It is easily mixed and cures in about 5 hours at room temperature. I've built entire bows using West System but have stopped for two reasons. 1. I developed a reaction to it so that if I work with it for to long my eyes swell up. 2. I felt that if I sell a bow it should be built with more of an industry standard glue so I switched to Smooth On and heat strips. All that said, I've never had a bow fail using West System.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex041.jpg)
Here are the Black Walnut tapers being ground on the taper platen in the drum sander.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex040.jpg)
I'm thinking that tapers with .120 butts and .040 veneers should get me the longbow I want. We'll see I guess. Hopefully I can pursue this one more on Saturday.
Ken
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This is the kind of thread I like to see. I did not know that Delta made a thickness sander. How do you like it? I am thinking of getting one.
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Very nice! Thanks a lot for sharing.
Looking forward to more!
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Very interesting, waiting eagerly to see more. Is that Delta sander accurate? Bue--.
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I use a Delta drum sander go grind tapered laminations on a platten. It works great and is very accurate, I get to .001 to .002.
Jim
www.harrison-fisklongbows.com (http://www.harrison-fisklongbows.com)
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Excellent build along. Thanks
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I was just thinking about the lack of glass bow buildalongs. The bug to build one has recently bit me so thanks for sharing.
Two questions...1) I assume the platen is tapered, how do you get the taper on it? Also, since it's wood, do you check to make sure it's true everytime you use it? 2) How do you cut the arcs in your riser wood and keep it true to the mating piece?
Clint
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Jeez Ken, you going pro now? That's one helluva shop!!!
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Great start Ken, thanks for sharing.
Question -just curious- your measurements, are they inches or milimeters?
Thanks
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This looks like it is going to be a beautiful bow I can't wait to see the finished product. Thank you for shareing this with us.
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Wow, thats about all I can say! Looks like a Beauty so far!! :thumbsup:
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Hey KT,
Thanks for posting. I'll look forward to seeing the bow go together. I appreciate you posting your taper specs. The pros don't usually post that data for obvious reasons, and so the rest of us are left with the Bingham design.
BTW- I thought that the spec. for aircraft work was 12:1 scarfs. That's what I used for the last one I worked on.
Tom
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This is really a fun one and I'm glad to see the interest. I really like the Delta sander. Once you get the bed adjusted it is very accurate and actually came out of the box fairly tuned up, only minor adjustments necessary.
The platen is made of 3/4" plywood strips cut 4" wide and glued together. I temporarily attached tapers of hardrock maple to the bottom and ran it through the sander then removed the tapers. I've been very pleased with the results.
Dan, I've sold a few bows but sure don't want a waiting list. I didn't fish or hunt enough last summer. Twenty or so bows a year wouldn't be a bad idea though.
I'm pretty stoked about this bow. I have to tell you that it is one of the greatest things I've ever done to be able present the master pilot award. This year one of the pilots just happens to be the man who also holds Alaska Hunting Guide License #1 and still operates a lodge over on the White River. He's 87 years old. Another is a lady who is 93 years old and still flies although she hires a flight instructor to ride along. She learned to fly in 1933 and flew mail in Alaska. This bow has got to be right. More later.
Ken
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Good on ya Ken! Can't wait to see how it turns out.
Keep yer plans open for some time in Oct down here...ya hear?
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I've finally made it to lunch break! tms, thanks for pointing my ratio error out. I did the research and found that 10:1 to 15:1 is acceptible. It has been 15 years since I repaired a wooden wing spar and went off the top of my head with the number :knothead: . All is not lost though as I have been considering the difference in density of the woods used so far and have decided to switch the limb veneers to Yew and Black Walnut which have more similar weight and density characteristics. So it goes...
JC, you have been on my mind lately, hope all is well.
Ken
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Thanks for shareing your build with us Ken, it's alot of work I know but well appreciated. I've only finished glass bow blanks, haven't gotten the bug to go all out yet. Nice work for a good cause, I love it.
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This is going to be one cool bow! I would have never thought of putting two different woods in the limbs like that. I look forward to seeing this one with finish on it!
If you have the time, you guys should go to http://twoarrowstraditionalarchery.com to see more of Kens bows. Great prices and a solid product that is pleasing to the eye to boot :notworthy:
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Is it done yet?<><
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How much for one of you bows? I am interested in one. ( couldent find a price on your site )
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Here is the update:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex042.jpg)
As mentioned earlier this bow has to be right with the aviation theme. So it needed a 15:1 ratio scarf. I pondered starting over but decided instead to put the cocobolo in the tip and put a proper scarf of 1/8" Black Walnut. The Walnut will fill in the new gap which is 22.5" long. This will put about 6" of Cocobolo at the tip.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex047.jpg)
I also got the handle cut out and feathered.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex046.jpg)
This is a close-up of the grip area.
A note on handles: Once you get the fades feathered so you can see light through at least 1/4" of the very end, secure it to another piece of hardwood with the fades down to protect the feathers, unless you put it directly into a bow.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex.jpg)
In this case it may be a couple days before it gets in the form so this is how I will store it. At this point you've got at least a couple hours work, an overnight wait for the glue to cure and 30 or 40 bucks in exotic hardwood, to lose this investment can be eyewatering.
More later, even with the scarf change I'm still on track because I worked on the bow instead of fixing my wife's minivan tonight :scared: .
Later,
Ken
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This is good. Don't mean to rush you but can you hurry up? Can't wait for more pictures. This is going to be one nice bow. Thanks!
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Good idea about protecting the fades. I've bumped and dropped one or two before and it always seems to land on the thinnest part and chip it for me.
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Yeah good tip on the fade protection.I have also dropped a riser and a T/D wedge.
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Pretty work KT and very interesting. Where do you get your handle epoxy from? I just finished building a 1 pc longbow to donate to the Southeastern Deer Study Group Meeting here in Baton Rouge at the end of the month. I'll be building myself another 2 pc. Longbow pretty soon and like how you spliced the handle. Also, what's your proceedure for feathering the fades? Thanks for your efforts to help others.
Emile
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The way I understand it West System is used in the manufacturing of fiberglass boat hulls and bath tubs. It is thin enough to be used as a thick top coat and thinned with acetone, I've put it on arrows. It takes a long time for the thinned stuff to cure so I haven't done that much as I usually need arrows quicker than that. I get it at the Fuller O'brien paint store and the local hardwood store.
As for feathering the fades I smooth out the arc from the grip to the tip either on a spindle sander or the round end of the belt sander. I feather the tip by sanding the bottom of the riser on the belt sander. My longbow is straight through the handle so this is a relatively simple task.
As for dropping risers or bumping fade tips, I tend to pace around the shop and mutter tonelessly for a couple minutes! :mad: I've pitched hundreds of dallors worth of exotic sawdust whistling merrily, but busting a riser just does not work for me.
Hopefully I can show some progress by this evening.
Ken
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Well I only got 1.5 hours in before supper, so i thought that while I'm on a break I'd report the progress.
First I cut the veneer from the block.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex050.jpg)
Next is to send it through the drum sander a few times and get it down to between .040 and .050. (I'm working just a little on a hunch here. Normally my recipe consists of 3 tapers, but since I decided to go with veneer this time,it will have 2 tapers and 2 veneers per limb. I don't have any recipes like this, but this should get me close to my #50 target.)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex051.jpg)
Then I laid the bow out a couple different ways.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex053.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex054.jpg)
I started out thinking about the cocobolo being in the tips but when it was all laid out I chose the upper lay out with the cocobolo coming off the handle. I think that the darker tips I'm planning will look better at the end of the yew rather than blending with the coco.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex056.jpg)
This is the final layout just before the glue up. The lamination butts are glued together with superglue unless they are going up the fades and are laid out so that all the upper limb lams are on the right and the lower on the left.
Here's the way I figure it. I seriously doubt that there is a sander on earth that can grind a perfect surface. At least I'm not willing to pay for such a machine, so we use the "imperfection" to our advantage. Thinking about tiller and the shape of the limbs, it would be nice to have limbs that are exactly the same shape and about 1/4" more distance from the string to the bow on the upper limb than on the bottom. (Assuming the lucky winner at the auction shoots split fingered.) To stack the deck in my favor, I stack the upper limb several thousandths thinner than the bottom limb. I will cut the limbs to the same measurements and hopefully have very small adjustments to tiller. Even if you order your lams, you should measure each one and at least know the best layout for your tiller. You will have to figure out the difference between the limbs that works for your limb design. This bow has .010 difference. (It's personal rocket science :saywhat: if you please.)
Hopefully I'll get this in the form tonight, I'll let you know.
Ken
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That thing is going to look incredible. :) . Thanks for taking us along.
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Alrighty then. It is time to prep for the glue-up.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex058.jpg)
First I clean up the edges of the lams and get all those stringy little splinters removed. There's nothing that slows down the process more than trying to pick out the splinters and nothing more disappointing than seeing a splinter under the glass when the glue has cured.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex059.jpg)
Then sand the lam splice so no bumps are produced in the back of the handle. Clean the glass with acetone (there's always quite a lot of real fine glass particals that come off) and you are ready for glue.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex063.jpg)
I use Smooth On and apply it with a blade. I mix equal parts of A & B measured in small dixie cups. I am not one to skimp on glue as I think it is better to have a little left over than have a failure. I like to apply it to lams laying side by side with the blade slanted so that the extra spills over onto the neighboring lam saves time and waste. With some prior planning you can the just flip the lam over onto its neighbor and coat the dry side and the next lam in the same manner.
Everything is initially held in place on the form with duct tape.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex066.jpg)
The rest of the form is added and the heat tapes adjusted to 150F for one hour. It has another 15 minutes then I'm off to bed.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex067.jpg)
The shop tip for this post involves superglue. Thanks to O.L. Adcock we all know where to buy superglue. Along with the glue comes a fact sheet with a least one thing that I did not know about using superglue. I'm certain that we all have been fed up with the booger that builds up on the tip of the bottle. The solution is to take the cap off and throw it away. By putting the cap on and off impurities are introduced to the tip and we all know what superglue does when it comes into contact with any kind of matter--it dries instantly.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex057.jpg)
I need color coding so I trimmed the caps so they wouldn't interfere with the tip and returned what was left to the bottle. More personal rocket science, I guess.
I sure hope this thing turns out. I'd stay up all night and work on it but my anticipation is trumped by lack of energy as I also replaced the powersteering pump on my wife's minivan today. Someday I'll have a chat with the folks who engineered that mounting device!
More Later
Ken
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good stuff man! Can't wait to see it live in person before it goes up for auction!
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I'd love to hear more about your lam grinding set up...it would make a great article :D
Great build-a-long!
-Brian
www.bowyersjournal.com (http://www.bowyersjournal.com)
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Great build a long. Thanks
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Removing the splinters from the edges of the lams before glue up is another good suggestion. I find bamboo to be the worst about having these splinters.
I have noticed, however, that when I splice cocobolo next to a light colored wood such as curley maple and use acetone to clean up after sanding the joint the cocobolo tends to bleed onto the maple. I have gone to high air pressure to blow away the dust and haven't had any problems. Mike
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Dan, come on over now , ya hear?
Brian, yeah, maybe with lots of pictures I could fill a whole page! :bigsmyl:
Mike, thanks for the reminder about the acetone wash. Normally when the limb has only one wood everything gets an acetone bath. The coco bleeds profusely, so I opted to skip the bath this time and clean the lams by brushing and blowing them off. Thanks for making the point.
Ken
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Can't wait til I have the time to tackle a bow like this
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I'm really enjoying this. It's starting to make me wonder if the funds for my next bow would be better spent on supplies to make my own. About how much is the start up cost?
Clint
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This is turning out very nice!
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Ken,
Taking tomorrow off to take some guys out ice fishing. Teach an IBEP class monday nite 6-10 and again tuesday nite. Also going fishing tuesday nite and more then likely taking my mother inlaw out ice fishing again on wensday. Hopefully you'll still have it then?
Dan
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:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Well, this is what it looks like right off the form. I remove as much tape and glue as possible by hand then put it to the belt sander to smooth the edges. Keep the sides as straight as possible so you can find the center and get the limbs laid out straight.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex069.jpg)
It would be way more efficient to leave the tape on and lay out the limbs but I just have to peek. The is the blank with the tape removed, the blank appears flawless.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex073.jpg)
Retape the back and lay out the limbs. I like to hold everything in place with spring clamps.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex075.jpg)
I also point the pencil into the corner of the template and limb so that I am drawing a line right against the template not a pencil tip away.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex074.jpg)
I cut the limbs with the table saw. Stay out side the lines with the saw and sand to the line with a belt sander or sanding block.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex077.jpg)
Remove the tape starting from the handle to the tip. If you removed it in the ither direction you can ruin the bow as the fiberglass splinters stick to the tape and will lift from the bowlimb leaving grooves in the glass sometimes several fibers deep.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex078.jpg)
More later
Ken
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awesome :notworthy:
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Don't blame you for peeking. Those limbs are great!
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Ken your a brave man cutting those limbs freehand on a tablesaw. :eek:
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Dano I agree. I like to use the bandsaw then belt sand to the line. i guess if you have a steady hand the tablesaw is smoother. Looking good.
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Prolly oughta mention that fiberglass will kill a wood cutting blade, bi-metal works pretty good. I have a deep respect for the table saw, it has claimed a few fingers.
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Directly after the tape is removed I take 100 grit to the limb edges to get rid of the fiberglass splinters.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex085.jpg)
Next I start the tips. Shown are the blanks black,yew,red,cocobolo stacked should go well on this bow.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex079.jpg)
Here's the side view after they are glued on and sanded even with the limb. Notice the fiberglass splinter just waiting to grab the unsuspecting finger.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex083.jpg)
Next is to shape the tip. I have to say that I'd rather work any other part of the bow than the tip. Tips just give me fits but here goes. I will rough them in with the disk sander but choose the cabinet file for the real shaping.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex087.jpg)
After the tip is filed to the lines drawn on the back I use sand paper to round the face of the tip.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex088.jpg)
Here is the very rough tip.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex089.jpg)
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Here's the part of fear and trembling...the string nocks. I start with a groove across the face, then work the side grooves. I've spent hours on string nocks trying to get them matched up.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex090.jpg)
My tips always come out arrowheadlike, which is OK I guess. Sometime I'm going to try something else but like I say this is my challenge on every bow so right now I'll stick with what is comfortable.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex091.jpg)
This is the back of the tip...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex092.jpg)
and a side view.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex093.jpg)
That is where I'm at so far. It's back to the shop for a couple more hours this evening.
Ken
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Beautiful tips KT
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Great job so far. I'd vote this in for the Tradgang Classics and how-to sections.
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This is making me want to build a glass bow :o
Very informative, looks great.
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Very nice!
Can I ask what type of glue you used for the tips?
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Ken, this build along is wonderful. You've mentioned some very helpful tips that they don't tell you in the books. I'm with you about the tips. The most tedious part of building the bow to me. Looking forward to more. Mike
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Great choice in the tip lay-up Ken, it looks really good.
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Looking great.
Clint
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Time to start chasing the tiller. Folks this is the most accellerating thing about building a bow. I just love to watch the limbs bend for the first time.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex094.jpg)
I leave the handle uncut and pull the string from the center (this should make you self bowyers cringe). This is only an exploratory pull on the string and from what we find here we will track down what needs to be accomplished as the night wears on. I must say that for the first pull she don't look too bad. I fact, this is the best first pull I've had!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex095.jpg)
Here she is braced for the first time 7 1/8" at the tip of the upper fade and 7" even at the lower. I could not be happier!
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex096.jpg)
There is the 28" pull, a little stiff in the outboard half of the right or upper limb.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex097.jpg)
A little work down the road will take care of that. By the weigh, she pulls 63 at 28 right now which puts me in the drivers seat, which is where I want to be.
After high fiving myself :saywhat: I settled down to take all the square out of the handle. Here is my way of marking the blank. The markings are on the back and are for a right-handed bow. This is cut out on the bandsaw.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex098.jpg)
I must put in a plug right here for carbide tipped bandsaw blades. Search on google and you'll find them. My is made by Sandvik and this is the 10th bow that I have built with that blade. I resaw all my own wood and tackle fiberglass, and phenolic with ease. The blade is still going strong and at around $130 I consider it a deal. It is 3 TPI so it cuts a mite courser than you may be used to, they are also available in 4 TPI.
From here it is rasps, files and sandpaper. The #50 nicholson rasp is probably my favorite tool in my whole shop.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex102.jpg)
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I cut a radius on the shelf with a coping saw and...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex105.jpg)
smooth the rasp marks with a cabinet file.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex107.jpg)
After the handle area is sanded with 100 grit, I move on to the limbs. At this point I am assured that the limbs are bending straight, the string is in the center of the bow and the upper limb still needs minor tweaking. I have decided to lightly "trap" the limbs to lower the draw weight and loosen the upper half of the upper limb. Just so we are all on the same page to "Trap" is to make a trapeziodal cross section out of a rectangular cross section across the limb. In other words the belly will be slightly wider than the back.
I've tried several ways using machines to get a good even trap. I always wind up taking off too much so this is how I do it. I place the limb in the vice with about 3/16" of the limb edge above the jaws. I have an angle cut into the jaw facing me and I use a file to remove what I need stroking from the back to the belly. I do not have a lot of curves in my limb and hesitate to clamp very hard in the area that do curve but so far it works good.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex109.jpg)
This is followed by a sanding block with long strokes to make a nice clean edge on the back. I took about 1/16" off the back, the belly remaining the same, and she pulled #55 at 28". (I'll get more pics tomorrow of the bow in action, my wife was sleeping at least 2 hours ago.)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex110.jpg)
I added an accent to the handle...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex113.jpg)
and propped her up for one last shot.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex111.jpg)
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I really want to say goodnite and hit the sack, so one little point about sanding blocks and I'm out of here. I kind of fell into this one because I cut a block just a bit too short for the 3X24 belt and started looking for a way to salvage an otherwise perfect block of black locust. I spied the duct tape.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex070.jpg)
Four wraps and I had a perfect fit. What's more no slipping of the belt around the block while sanding, no corners cutting the belt, I didn't spend much time making the block and that is all I can think of at mid-nite:30.
Ken
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Fabulous Stuff, Ken - thank you! :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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Yes, fabulous..almost makes ME want to make another glass bow.
Where's the crooks? the knots? the windchecks? The heat gun? How can you make a decent bow without a heat gun? ha ha
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:thumbsup: !!!
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Thanks Ken, very informative!
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Absolutely beautiful work...Jim.
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Beautiful work Ken!!
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Absolutely Beautiful work Ken.
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Simply, Thank You............Mark
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Awesome :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:
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I'm impressed and inspired! Good on ya!!!
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looks great!!!
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Very nice job - you do beautiful work Ken.
fletch
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Whoops, sorry.
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Originally posted by knife river:
I'm impressed and inspired!
Yea, me too!
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Man this is a great thread and the bow is looking good.I know what you mean on geting the tips to look alike. After close to forty bows II still have fits with them.My thoughts on bandsaw blades-I use Timberwolf bi-metal for ihe limb cutting.They have served me well.
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Great Build along. I just started LAM building. this is a big help Thanks
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I just hate losing momentum in the middle of a project. Looks like it will be Saturday before I have a chance to do anymore on this one. I hope to finish it this weekend.
Ken
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We'll be right here waiting when you get back! :thumbsup:
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I wish I had your momentum. If I get to spend three uninterrupted hours in a row on one that is serious momentum for me.
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Top for Clint
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Geez, when's Saturday going to get here anyway? :rolleyes:
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OK WE IZ READY FOR MORE!
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Well, it has been a long week for me. I was able to sneek in a few minute here and there and get the final tiller done, the sanding done and the first coat of finish on(very late last night). I'm not going to spend a lot of time on sanding and finish except to say that all the wood is sanded down to a 400 grit surface. I use Fuller Plast Satin and a real heavy first coat. There are always runs in my first coat but when you are working with oily woods like cocobolo or bacote you want to be sure that you have a heavy coat on so that subsequent coats don't soften it enough to to lift. Also I let that first coat cure completely, this will aid in run removal.
I use an 8" single bastard file to remove the heavy areas in the finish.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex120.jpg)
When used lightly the file will produce a nice smooth surface that with a little light sanding is ready for more finish.
I will put on 6 more lighter coats, wet sanded every other coat with 400 grit. I haven't actually got this far but you'll see it in the end.
Going back to tiller. The fisrt setting is the braced tiller. I set the brace height at 6 3/4" on my bow, after that you reall don't need a ruler. I use an arrow and mark the position of the string with my thumb of the upper limb. (This should be the deepest of the two measurements.) Then compare it to the bottom limb.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex119.jpg)
This bow has played nicely the whole game. After checking for limb twist, adjusting the upper limb slightly and sanding, the difference between the limbs is 1/4" and the weight at 28" is #53.
Now I'd like to an area of theory which is definately open for discussion. In the next picture it is my intention to demonstrate what I think is the way my bow should be tillered. Using the John Scrifes method of drawing lines on pictures, which is really cool :thumbsup: , I show my final tiller.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/b.jpg)
I have the bow drawn to 28", with the hook where the middle finger would be if drawing split fingered. The green line is where the arrow would be. The blue line is the center of the bow this show the 2" between the center of the string and the buttom if the arrow. The red line between the tips show that the upper limb moves just a little more (1 1/4") being slightly weaker and pulled by the short half of the string. The black lines which intersect the extended centerline show the extra action in the upper limb as well. This I think demonstrates how a longbow works. The middle of the palm of the gripping hand is roughly in the middle of the bow (blue line). The drawing hand grips the string at the nockpoint with most of the pressure on the middle finger, under the arrow (green line). Like I said before I'm open to discussion here. This is the way I've tillered these bows but I'm not against making them better and with the experience on this site I'm sure that if I'm missing something someone will come to the rescue.
With the warmer weather I have shot this bow a little of the the last couple days. I'm happy so far.
More later,
Ken
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You might try sealing the oily woods with a couple of coats of super glue (CA)Then steel wool it smooth before putting on your finish.I have never used Fullerplast. I use Thunderbird epoxy on my first bow and have seen no reason to change. I have allways used the satin untill last week and sprayed a couple of bows with the gloss finish. The gloss T-bird is tuffer than nails and can be wet sanded to a satin or flat look.
That bow is looking good and I have liked this thread. Neat to see what other guys do and pick up some tips along the way.
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She's lookin good Ken. I'm with Crooked Stic on the finish. What ever the final finish super glue does a great job of sealing porous woods.
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Ken, while Ive never made a glass bow, I have made a couple of guitars and mandolins. Seems to me the problem with trying to fill the grain would be the same. We use Rosewood for the sides and back of guitars, which is really pourous.it is filled with either a water or oil based grain filler before applying the finish.Check out Sewart Mcdonald, a luthier suppy co. Hope I'm not sticking my nose in where it don't belong. DB
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Beautiful bow, wonderfully informative thread...What do we do to get the powers that be to put this into the "How to" forum so all this great info doesn't fade off into the ether??? :thumbsup:
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I'm not taking any chances, I've saved every picture that KT has posted. As soon as I figure out how to save his explination, I'll do that too!
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I just started highlighting, copying and pasting KT's posts along with the pictures. Thanks KT for your Efforts.
Emile
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Alrighty, time to git'r dun. A couple things on the finish I use then we'll move on. The two things that I really like about Fuller Plast is that it dries fast and is tough. In my finishing area I have a rack that puts the bow under two 500 watt lamps, this setup allows for a coat every 15 minutes. Every second coat spends 45 minutes, then it is wet sanded. The down side to Fuller Plast is that it is very unhealthy and breathing equipment is a must. The upshot is that I can finish a bow in about three hours, depending on the goof-ups, the let it cure for an hour and it is ready for the leather handle.
First I lay out the leather. For this bow I've chosen a cordovan dye for the handle with a tan fringe to come out the bottom.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex122.jpg)
The leather is shaped to fit around the handle. holes are then punched for the heavy waxed thread.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex123.jpg)
The holes are spaced about 1/4" apart and are about 1/4" back from the edge.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex124.jpg)
I start out with a complete loop through the top holesso I can snug everything up...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex126.jpg)
then proceed with the baseball stitch.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex127.jpg)
I end with a loop through the bottom holes, tie it off with the string ends under the leather and it is done.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex128.jpg)
Be back in a bit.
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The striker plate is probably going to evolve over the next couple days. I decided to start out with a 1/2" piece of cordovan dyed leather.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex135.jpg)
It is placed where the radius of the shelf and the plate meet. I have the accent lines of yew running through the handle and don't want to cover up too much.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex137.jpg)
We'll see how it works.
Trying to get the rest of these pictures was a chore, it is hard to make it real with a camera, but I'll try.
The upper half of the bow.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex140.jpg)
The side view.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex141.jpg)
Here is the side view of the tip.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex144.jpg)
And the front of the tip with the string intalled.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex146.jpg)
I use a 12 strand Dyna 97 continious loop strin with double served loops to pad the string nocks. I'm going to try to post some pictures of the bow in action tomorrow.
Ken
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Wow That is a beauty. Great Job. Great Build along
Thanks
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Yes excellent job in both construction and explanation.
:thumbsup: :notworthy:
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Well, this has been a fun project. I hope that this will inspire a few more of these as there is lots of experience out there we can all gain from. This is what it looks like from my angle and I appreciate the comments and suggestions made during the project. I hope that someone who appreciates traditional archery will be at the Master Pilot Banquet and that this does not become a $75.00 trinket behind someone's door. That is the chance we have taken when we started this venture.
After church this morning I enlisted my wife's help and got some pictures of the bow in action. They were taken using the timer, so don't get the idea that she was in harms way.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex149.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex150.jpg)
Thanks for tuning in,
Ken
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GOOD JOB!!!!! Ken
stabow
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Great job Ken, classy finally too.
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OH NO!!!!! Wheres the Pics? I havent fiished reading!! Im Lost!!!!!!!!!! This is just plain cruel.............. :)
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Are the pics still there? I see them when I log on. :confused:
Ken
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I see everyone except the last two.
Great buildalong :thumbsup:
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ok.......shhheeeeewwwww!!
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Boy did I ever mess up. I just reorganized everything on photobucket into an album. Guess I'll have to redo all the links. The last two should be up now. :knothead:
Ken
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The pics have all been edited and should show up again. Boy, just when you think it is a job well done you go and do a bonehead thing like that. Cost me an hour of shootin' light!
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Just had a couple hooligans over, who helped break in the Master Pilot longbow. Being a fixed-wing pilot myself, I have a good bit of respect for the "rotorheads" among us...especially when they can hit a nickle with a brand new longbow.
Jumper and...
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex152.jpg)
Hopper.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v426/mrgnats/Master%20Pilot%20Longbow/reflex154.jpg)
I guess you'll hear the real story now.
Ken
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Thanks Ken, That's a mighty pretty piece of work. If nothing else, be assured that we all appreciate and acknowledge your efforts and know what it takes. Maybe I'll do a buildalong on my next T/D longbow. You may have inspired me.
Emile
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Excellent all the way around!
Thanks so much for taking the time to share.
Mike
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Now you want to talk about a beautiful bow that shoots just as well as it looks, I just shot it fellas :thumbsup: Even though it's a fixed wing type bow, it shot like a champ for this rotor jockey! Now if it could only hover.....
I look forward to glueing up my first one with Ken this week if time permits! If work and family schedules falls into place, you will hopefully see another one of these build along threads from Kens shop soon :D
My boy "Hopper" told me on the way back home that, that bow shot SWEEEEEEEEEETTTTTTTTTT!!!!! Now that's pretty good out of a teenager if you ask me ;)
Good job Ken, my hats off to you once again sir. And thank you once again for letting us come fling some sticks out of your latest project! :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:
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Beautiful job. Thanks for the build-a-long.
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Simply, "Thank You"........Ret f-14 mech