Post by: BillJ on January 07, 2006, 03:21:00 PM
Here is the bow unstrung. Before I began working on it today, it had relaxed down to about 1/2 inch of set on both limbs:
(http://www.JohnsonAcres.com/images/bow_6/DSCF0002.JPG)
Here it is braced:
(http://www.JohnsonAcres.com/images/bow_6/DSCF0003.JPG)
Here it is pulled to 24 inches:
(http://www.JohnsonAcres.com/images/bow_6/DSCF0004.JPG)
And here it is pulled to 24 inches, but reversed on the tree:
(http://www.JohnsonAcres.com/images/bow_6/DSCF0005.JPG)
NOW FOR SOME QUESTIONS:
The following pic shows a small knot that has a tiny crack in it. This is just outside the fade, and the wood there is working a bit. Should I be concerned with this?
(http://www.JohnsonAcres.com/images/bow_6/DSCF0006.JPG)
The following 2 shots show the grain on the back of the bow in the end third of each limb. There is some runout on the one. Should I be concerned about this? I was hoping for an unbacked bow, but I'm thinking about backing it due to this. Opinions?
(http://www.JohnsonAcres.com/images/bow_6/DSCF0007.JPG)
(http://www.JohnsonAcres.com/images/bow_6/DSCF0008.JPG)
Finally, here is a pic of the set after working it a bit at 24 inches. As I said earlier this relaxes to about 1/2 inch after a while. I'm guessing the set it due to moisture, and am in the process of building a hot box which should help with that issue.
(http://www.JohnsonAcres.com/images/bow_6/DSCF0009.JPG)
If you made it this far reading this lengthy post, thank you for your patience. Any advice / suggestions / criticisms are always appreciated!
Bill J
Post by: Luke Vander Vennen on January 07, 2006, 03:35:00 PM
1. The right limb in the first pic is bending too much in the outer third, and not enough in the first third.
2. I wouldn't worry about that crack. If it does worry you, just fill it with superglue.
3. With those kind of runouts I would definitely back it. It could blow real soon without a backing.
4. That much set is expected. Actually I would say you are doing pretty good there.
Just my two cents
Nice work so far. Keep us updated :)
Post by: Randy Morin on January 07, 2006, 04:11:00 PM
2. Super Glue.
3. Can you attach a pic of the grain on the limb edge or count the runouts on the edge?
4. Your not gonna reverse any set by drying it more. 2 inches or less is average I would think.
Post by: BillJ on January 07, 2006, 04:22:00 PM
Thanks for the help guys.
Bill
Post by: Tim Clark on January 07, 2006, 06:58:00 PM
Can you drop a sheet, and maybe that will let us (and you) just focus on the limbs? Just a thought, not criticizing at all, looking to help get you what you need as far as proper advice.
That said, I'll reserve comment until then! :bigsmyl:
Post by: Paul H on January 07, 2006, 07:02:00 PM
Post by: George Tsoukalas on January 07, 2006, 07:10:00 PM
Post by: BillJ on January 07, 2006, 09:59:00 PM
Actually, I've been thinking about some kind of backdrop for the shop. I recently built a new shop and am just getting stuff moved in there. I'll try and take some more pics with less "distractions"!
Thanks for the feedback!
Bill J
Post by: Tim Clark on January 07, 2006, 10:15:00 PM
:readit:
In other words, give us a damn sheet for a background. Or a board with defined squares so that we have a sense of proportion and perspective. And clamp the bow horizontal.
:bigsmyl:
Oh, and one more thing -- DO WHAT JAWGE SAID ABOUT A ROPE AND PULLEY!!!! We'd kinda like to keep you around, with all your body parts intact. And besides, who'd finish the bow for ya if you shot your eye out?!?!
!["[dead]"]("graemlins/dead.gif" "\"\"")
Post by: BillJ on January 07, 2006, 11:41:00 PM
I shall endeavor to provide the proper backdrop tomorrow. And the rope and pulley is on the list of things to add to the new shop.
I appreciate the feedback... and I'll be chuckling at your turn of phrase for some time!
B
Post by: Jim now in Kentucky on January 07, 2006, 11:58:00 PM
I would be concerned about those runouts, though I have hickory with that kind of runouts the length of the limb and it hasn't blown. (But I do worry about it!)
JIm
Post by: Tim Clark on January 11, 2006, 08:30:00 PM
Just checkin' in on ya - hope you've had time to enjoy it.
Post by: BillJ on January 11, 2006, 10:38:00 PM
Hopefully, I can make some progress in the next couple of days. I'm hoping to be in the woods on Saturday, but when I'm not doing that, I'll try and hang that sheet for you and get back to tillering!
Thanks for the interest!
B
Post by: Dan Chamberlain on January 12, 2006, 10:15:00 AM
Dan C
Post by: RayMO on January 12, 2006, 11:09:00 AM
Seriously, get some backing on it soon.. :D
Post by: tim-flood on January 12, 2006, 04:47:00 PM
Post by: Shakes.602 on January 12, 2006, 08:31:00 PM
Post by: BillJ on January 23, 2006, 12:42:00 PM
Has anybody tried these veneer strips as backings? Anybody want to stop me before I give it a try on this hickory board bow? My other thoughts were either brown paper bag, or drywall tape. Trying to go as cheap as I can on this particular bow.
Thanks!
Bill J
Post by: NorthShoreLB on January 23, 2006, 12:54:00 PM
curious to hear what the experts have to say.
Manny
Post by: BillJ on January 23, 2006, 01:11:00 PM
They are very thin. I don't have it in front of me to give you the exact measurement, but they are thin. I figured it would be thicker than paper or drywall tape, but not a whole lot, and it would look so much nicer if it works.
Bill J
Post by: BillJ on January 23, 2006, 07:51:00 PM
Anybody have thoughts on my using veneer for backing this bow, before I head for my messy shop and ruin another bow? If not, I shall forge ahead and post the results in a few days. I'm sure it will be a smashing success! :help:
Bill J
Post by: George Tsoukalas on January 23, 2006, 07:54:00 PM
Jawge
Post by: Tim Clark on January 23, 2006, 08:36:00 PM
Also, does the veneer have adhesive on the back? Sometimes, it's not what you want it to be. Lots of variables when you don't know what the glue is.
Post by: BillJ on January 23, 2006, 08:46:00 PM
Thanks!
Post by: Tim Clark on January 23, 2006, 09:20:00 PM
That said, I don't know if the unknown adhesive can or even should be removed. Can it be? Probably, maybe acetone, maybe adhesive remover as long as it doesn't leave residue behind that make things worse than the adhesive did. Should it be removed, or will it damage the veneer's integrity in the process?
I would strongly suggest that you take a small piece of you r base wood and a small piece of the veneer. Try a glue up the way you intended. Do another mini glue up with just the veneer. Then another with the adhesive removed, as many ways as practical for you, and see how the veneer holds up, then apply just the TB2. In all cases, make it so the the pieces can bend through a simulated drawn arc after they're dried or cured so that you can tell if it'll hold up under that kind of tension.
A lot of tedious work? Sure it is, but how much worse would it be to get the bow somewhere along the process to completion and find out then that the chosen way was the wrong way?
Like I said, wait for a voice of authority. Mine is only giving these suggestions and you have to find out. Sorry, I wish I HAD tried some of that veneer myslef, that way I would be able to give you definite answers.
My two cents... which may not be worth quite that much.
Post by: Jeff Strubberg on January 24, 2006, 01:33:00 AM
Hickory will allow one heck of a lot of runout without trouble. I have a 67" hickory bow that's too narrow (1 1/4"), badly tillered (too much bend at center limb) and that I draw to 57 pounds at 29 inches. It has runout at least as bad as yours, only covering the entirety of BOTH limbs.
The bow is going on three years old now. No problems at all.
Post by: Tim Clark on January 24, 2006, 09:12:00 AM
BillJ, the choice is of course yours, but given that you're not exactly a novice I think that you'd be fine to leave it unbacked.
If you want to experiment with the veneer, I'd suggest the same as my comments above.
Post by: Jeff Strubberg on January 24, 2006, 08:32:00 PM
Flip it over. Use TB2 to glue the clean side to the stave, then use acetone to clean the pre-glue junk off after everything sets up. No worries about glue incompatibility that way.
Worst case, you can always sand off the pre-glue to get a finishable surface.
Post by: Dano on January 24, 2006, 08:47:00 PM
Post by: Tim Clark on January 24, 2006, 09:31:00 PM
Dano, I'm new to backings (at least on bows), and it amazes me that tissue paper can have such an effect as that. I suppose it is a "single ring" though, huh? :p
Hey, BillJ, looking forward to reading about your next move! :bigsmyl:
Post by: Jeff Strubberg on January 25, 2006, 12:21:00 AM
Applied to a rag and worked with a bit of elbow grease, I'm not sure you could force it through the veneer before it evaporated.
Post by: BillJ on January 28, 2006, 08:34:00 PM
Here are some new pics, this time with the sheet finally hung behind it for Mr. Clark's sake. :D
Here it is braced.
(http://www.johnsonacres.com/images/bow_6/DSCF0010.JPG)
And in this pic it's pulled to 25 inches.
(http://www.johnsonacres.com/images/bow_6/DSCF0013.JPG)
So, what do you guys and gals see? The bow is pulling about 45 lbs at 24 inches right now, and I'm targetting 50 lbs+ at 28 inches. After I worked it a bit on the tree this afternoon, I shot about a dozen arrows through it. After that, I unstrung it and it showed about 1 1/2 inches of set, which is about what I've come to expect, I guess. I put it back in the hotbox, and looked at it a few minutes ago after it had been in there for several hours, and the set is greatly reduced... again as I expected.
Just looking for tillering comments, I guess. Any advice is as always appreciated.
Thanks!
Bill J
Post by: Dano on January 28, 2006, 08:44:00 PM
Post by: BillJ on January 28, 2006, 09:04:00 PM
Post by: Tim Clark on January 28, 2006, 10:26:00 PM
What I do notice is the left limb seems to have a somewhat/slightly sharp start right off the fade at the end of the handle. It otherwise has a nice arc to it, which at first drew my eyes away from that spot.
Thank you for the sheet, I suppose that since it's in my "honor," I get to name it? How about, "Senator Byrd?" (He used to wear a sheet back in his Klan days! lol!)
Oh and hey -- look at that!!! All those power tools that you put up on the shelf? Well, take a close look now, and you'll see that a few of them have their little cords hanging over the edge to get themselves an admiring view of your work! :bigsmyl:
Post by: Tim Clark on January 28, 2006, 10:36:00 PM
Post by: NorthShoreLB on January 28, 2006, 10:50:00 PM
Did you think about tempering the belly ? to figth the set ?
Manny
Post by: BillJ on January 29, 2006, 01:25:00 AM
Manny - I have been reading your posts about belly tempering. Interesting. Do you think it is too late to apply it to his bow? It is pretty much in the final stages of tillering, I think.
Post by: NorthShoreLB on January 29, 2006, 02:10:00 AM
I thinkhe was at the shooting stage, and look what a recovery.
Just read a thread by Steve (Badger) He rescued an old mulberry with 4" of set, after belly tempering and retillering, the bow is even , no set.
I was able to get rid of more than 1" of set on old bows that shot 100's of arrows.
Yeah you still have plenty of time, remember that tempering the belly probably will put about 10# back on that bow.
If you need more info, just ask, and if I can help I will, if not I'll refer you to more experiaced bowyers in the matter.
Manny
Post by: Timo on January 29, 2006, 07:19:00 AM
Tiller looks well. I'm with Tim Clark about the shadow lines.
Post by: Tim Clark on January 29, 2006, 04:47:00 PM
You do very nice work, Bill. I hope you keep at it always. Plus, you're a good (great? lol!) sport, keeping things on a light note. More to being that kind of person than meets the eye, and my hat's off to you.
..well, if I was WEARING a hat, that is.... all the same, well well done.
And no my fingers didn't stutter. :bigsmyl:
Post by: BillJ on January 29, 2006, 08:35:00 PM
I may try that on this bow just for giggles. I also have my "Twisted Hickory" bow that I hunted with all season. I'm a little peeved at it since I didn't get a deer, and I'm sure it's the bow's fault, so maybe I should heat it up a little. It's taken a couple inches of set as I've shot hundreds of arrows through it. It is finished in TruOil. Would it be a candidate for heat tempering?
Thanks, as always for the help you guys and gals provide.
B
Post by: NorthShoreLB on January 29, 2006, 09:02:00 PM
I would be scared of using it however !!!
Marc says, 5 minutes at 4 inches with a heat gun at high.
I think a heat gun gives you more control, remember that to do both limbs properly takes quite a bit of time.
Manny
Post by: Timo on January 29, 2006, 10:08:00 PM
He used a propane torch.
I used a industrial heat gun.I suppose I'd not like watching the elec meter,while doing it, as these guns pull alot of amps. Be prepared to stand a while,and switch arms regularly.Also keep the gun moving,for more even heat.
Post by: BillJ on January 30, 2006, 09:57:00 AM
BillJ
Post by: Timo on January 30, 2006, 06:29:00 PM
Post by: BillJ on February 04, 2006, 09:38:00 PM
Then I thought I'd put it back on the tree for one more look at the tiller. Pulled it to 28 and in a spectacular display, it ended up like this:
(http://www.JohnsonAcres.com/images/bow_6/DSCF0015.JPG)
It blew right where that little knot / crack was, so I guess there was just a weak spot in the wood there. Is it possible, though, that having it in the hotbox for 2 weeks simply made it too dry?
Regardless, I shall try again! Once more into the breach! I have some walnut I'm going to have a go with, as well as some more hickory. I also have an osage stave that 4nolz sent me a while back and I've been trying to get my skills up to where I feel comfortable tackling that.
So... thanks for all the help on this one guys and gals. May she rest in peace (or is that pieces?)
Bill J
Post by: Tim Clark on February 04, 2006, 09:52:00 PM
Sorry about that Bill. But as she "smoked" the arrows, perhaps now she can smoke the meat?
Try again with hickory. But I'd also suggest getting going with the osage. I've just recently come into possession of some, and from the looks and feel of this osage bow from Linc, I am now about to unashamedly concede that I am in fact quite obsessed with the wood. Simply remarkable what it can be made to do, and it does so without complaint.
I'm glad to see your spirits are up and that your attitude is right. Imagine what we'd go through - or not even attempt - without the comraderie of this place?
Good for you, Bill, good for you. Any dead fish can float downstream - winners keep heading up.
Post by: George Tsoukalas on February 04, 2006, 10:16:00 PM
Post by: BillJ on February 04, 2006, 10:32:00 PM
George - As the pieces of hickory helicoptered around my ears, I was remembering all the times guys on this board have told me to go with the pulley system. I shall definitely move that up on my priority list now.
As for the hotbox... well I thought that was the thing to do. My last hickory board took a couple inches of set, and I thought moisture might be the problem. I've read on this board where some guys leave their hickory bows in the hot box all the time, as hickory is just so liable to pick up moisture. Did I misunderstand that?
There is no question the wood in the area that broke is very dry.
B
Post by: Lost Arra on February 04, 2006, 10:46:00 PM
Get that osage stave out and make a yeller bow.
Post by: NorthShoreLB on February 04, 2006, 11:08:00 PM
Manny
Post by: BillJ on February 05, 2006, 08:27:00 AM
I looked at the pieces of this bow again this morning. The limbs are some of my nicest work! I hate to sacrifice them. Plus, I've been thinking of making a takedown.
Do you think I could salvage this bow into something like the one in this thread - Red Oak Take Down Bow (http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=022979#000013)
Post by: Lower on February 05, 2006, 11:24:00 AM
And thanks to mr.clark for my new sig.
Post by: Tim Clark on February 05, 2006, 01:33:00 PM
Bill - Go for it. What have you got to lose? But, that said, maybe give that wood a rest, and give yourself one from it, for a little while. Pick up another piece that you've got nearby, hickory, black walnut, or osage, and get fresh again. Just some advice from my own experience with such things. NOT that I always follow my OWN advice, mind you... :bigsmyl:
Post by: George Tsoukalas on February 05, 2006, 01:56:00 PM
Post by: BillJ on February 05, 2006, 02:10:00 PM
I would like to see somebody who really understands grain as it applies to board bows do a pictorial on here giving examples of good and bad grain. I've seen a lot of examples that are hand drawn, but I haven't seen any where there are actual examples photographed and explained. Is there such a thing anywhere? If not, I would be willing to post pics of various boards and invite comment from those in the know. Perhaps it could then be assembled into something usable as a reference for the future. Any thoughts?
B
Post by: Tim Clark on February 05, 2006, 02:45:00 PM
Post by: George Tsoukalas on February 05, 2006, 07:20:00 PM