Post by: Dave Bulla on March 25, 2005, 10:09:00 PM
I ain't much good a building a bow but I like the detail work like the sanding, tip overlays and handle work and I kinda accidently came up with my own unique handle treatment that lots of guys who have seen it seem to like. It involves gluing leather onto the back of the bow handle and saturating it with super glue then rasping, sanding to shape and polishing it to a high shine. It ends up looking like a dark wood overlay but it has the benefit of being able to follow irregular contours, bumps and dips in the back of the bow so you don't have to violate the growth rings or tediously fit a piece of wood to the back.
I'll try to get a pick of a finished handle up here in a couple of minutes then as time permits, I'll do a sequence of pics from start to finish. Just keep in mind that I don't do much of anything fast except maybe eat....
Post by: '46 on March 25, 2005, 10:28:00 PM
!["[moon]"]("graemlins/sleeping.gif" "\"\"")
Post by: Dave Bulla on March 25, 2005, 10:30:00 PM
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0441.jpg)
Here is a side view that shows the shelf nicely. If you notice, the edge lines on the shelf are nice and crisp where they fade into the wood but the ones on the back overlay are kinda fuzzy. That's because I glued the first layer of the shelf on with the smooth side of the leather towards the bow and the back overlay had the rough side down. Of course, now I'll always use the smooth side down. :rolleyes:
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0440.jpg)
Post by: Luke Vander Vennen on March 25, 2005, 10:33:00 PM
Post by: Missouri CK on March 25, 2005, 10:36:00 PM
That is pretty solid looking. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have guessed that it was leather.Great contrast. I'm looking forward to seeing how this is done.
Chris
Post by: luv2bowhunt on March 25, 2005, 10:38:00 PM
Kevin.
Post by: clintopher on March 25, 2005, 10:53:00 PM
Clint
Post by: Dave Bulla on March 25, 2005, 10:56:00 PM
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0421.jpg)
Here's another angle. You can see that it is typical osage and has a knot right where you would want to put an overlay but that won't be a problem. The leather will form right over it while it's soft and will conform perfectly. After it's been soaked with super glue it will get super hard and I can rasp and sand it to shape.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0423.jpg)
Post by: '46 on March 25, 2005, 11:01:00 PM
Post by: Dave Bulla on March 25, 2005, 11:09:00 PM
Being as I'm pretty much a just wing it kind of guy I grabbed a piece of the same leather I used on the bow in the first pics and took a series of pics about tracing the outline of the handle, cutting the leather to shape etc but when I got to the part where I was putting the glue on the leather to stick it on the handle, the glue wouldn't stick right and kept beading up like water on a waxed car. On looking closer, I realized the piece of leather had been treated with boot grease at some time in the past and it wasn't gonna work. Oh well, I've got some different leather I'll try. It's a lot darker but the contrast with the white sapwood should look interesting. If not, I can always cover it up with a wrap.
At least it wasn't like when I was doing the first one and got the shelf leather all glued on, shaped and nearly to finish sanded only to realize I'd put it on the bow with the bow upside down! I went Yosemite Same for a few minutes on that one. You remember, the old FRIKEM FRAKEM BRIGGEN BRAGGEN (#@#$@$!!!!!! OOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: Dave Bulla on March 25, 2005, 11:16:00 PM
Post by: '46 on March 25, 2005, 11:35:00 PM
Post by: Dave Bulla on March 25, 2005, 11:43:00 PM
I've wanted to do a pictorial on this for a long time but didn't know how to post pics until about two weeks ago. Then your post reminded me about doing the pictorial so, here I am. The "pain" part is the slow 'puter. The actual pictorial is kinda fun.
By the way, your welcome. :)
Post by: gordonf on March 26, 2005, 12:14:00 AM
Post by: cjones on March 26, 2005, 12:30:00 AM
Post by: Linc on March 26, 2005, 06:39:00 AM
Post by: Dano on March 26, 2005, 08:03:00 AM
Post by: AZStickman on March 26, 2005, 08:39:00 AM
Post by: Ray on March 26, 2005, 08:39:00 AM
Post by: wingnut on March 26, 2005, 08:42:00 AM
I always liked your way of doing the leather. Now get out in the shop and take them pictures.
Mike
Post by: frankb on March 26, 2005, 10:45:00 AM
Dude... what I can appreciate... is your ability to realize the need to apply the flat-side of the leather to the wood in order to obtain the crisp finish.
It takes the skill of an artist to see that. I aint got it... but you do. :)
Does the finished handle Tx feel like wood, or is there a tad of cushion to it? My guess is that it would have more of a solid texture in order to keep the luster.
Looks great, Dave.
Frank
Post by: Dave Bulla on March 26, 2005, 11:14:00 AM
Ok, here are some preliminary shots showing what I started last night before I figured out I had a bad piece of leather. On that note, I should mention that I normally use a nice pece of vegetable tanned leather for this but any leather that's not super soft (like deer or elk skin) and is oil free should work fine. Something about 1/8" thick works well. I also like it undyed or just a medium light reddish brown works well too. It really darkens up when you add the glue. If you use multiple layers, the end result looks like wood with growth rings in it. You might be able to see it in the first pics I posted.
This just shows the strip of leather I'd planned to use and I was holding it up to see if it was wide enough. Also, this is not vegtable tanned leather (I don't think), just some that I had laying around and it's quite a bit darker than the leather used on the bow in the first pics.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0425.jpg)
Here's a view from the other side.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0427.jpg)
For the pictorial I thought I'd try to do some extra steps to give a better idea of how it works. This is tracing the handle outline onto the leather. I normally don't do that at all. I just worry about the ends or any place where the will be an edge showing. If the edge will be the same as the edge of the bow like on the sides of the handle I just let it hang over and trim it after it's glued on.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0429.jpg)
Here I highlighted the pen lines with a silver sharpie so they would show up.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0431.jpg)
Post by: Dave Bulla on March 26, 2005, 11:32:00 AM
When sanding to final shape, I like to get it where if you run your fingers over it with your eyes closed, you can't feel the edge but even then, the line you cut will still be crisp. I've found that trying to true up a poorly cut edge line by sanding can be pretty tedious so it's best to get right before you glue it on.
Post by: Dave Bulla on March 26, 2005, 12:01:00 PM
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0432.jpg)
Here is the trimmed leather held down in place with my fingers to show how it conforms to the bumps and humps.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0433.jpg)
Of course there would be at least one additional layer on top of this one if this leather had worked.
Post by: Dave Bulla on March 26, 2005, 05:59:00 PM
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0435.jpg)
Not all the ink came off but enough so I started putting the glue on again and now I noticed that the glue was beading up on the leather. The only reason I could figure was that the piece of scrap leather had been oiled or greased in the past. Good clean and dry leather is important for this so that it will absorb the super glue. It has to penetrate deeply to give it that good hardness that polishes up so well.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0437.jpg)
Post by: Dave Bulla on March 26, 2005, 06:34:00 PM
Here is a new piece of leather. It's not the vegetable tanned stuff I said I like but I'm gonna try it anyway. It's some surplus boot leather from Lacrosse Boot company. Somebody posted a couple years ago on *********** about them selling "blems" cheap and I bought two of them. It's nice and dry, medium soft but a little dark. We'll see what I end up with I guess. I'm holding my fingers about where I plan to have the overlay end.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0442.jpg)
Here is a piece cut to length and with enough width to hang over the edges a bit.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0443.jpg)
Here I've rounded the ends and am holding it in place. I folded the leather in half and used my pocket knife to round both of them together.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0444.jpg)
Post by: Dave Bulla on March 26, 2005, 07:39:00 PM
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0445.jpg)
I think we've seen me do this before eh?
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0448.jpg)
Post by: Holm-Made on March 26, 2005, 09:29:00 PM
Post by: Dave Bulla on March 26, 2005, 09:29:00 PM
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0451.jpg)
A heavy coat of glue goes on after trimming to shape and we're ready for a 2nd smaller layer. Here I've only put glue on about two thirds of the leather so you can see the difference and how the leather really soaks up the glue and gets a lot darker.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0454.jpg)
Repeat the skiving/triming with a sharp knife like done on the first layer.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0456.jpg)
And here is after doing a third and final layer along with pretty close shaping with the knife.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0460.jpg)
Post by: Dave Bulla on March 26, 2005, 10:46:00 PM
Once things are trimmed pretty close to where we want them with the knife, it's time to soak the leather with thin super glue. Use plenty of it so it really gets in there.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0469.jpg)
Sand everything back down to smooth with 100 grit paper to get rid of the little high spots that will have been left with the knife. I usually sand the leather and the handle all the way around like it was a single piece to get that smooth transition. Repeat the soak and sand with 100 grit if needed. Basically, if it starts to fuzz up bad, you need to put more glue on. Pay particular attention to the fade transitions areas. Try to avoid accidently sanding a groove into the back of the bow where it and the leather meets. Go for a nice smooth flow.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0470.jpg)
Here it is after sanding and soaking twice more (after the 100 grit) first with 220 and then 400 grit. It's also got a fresh coat of glue in the pic put on after the 220 and 400 sandings. Once you get to the 400 grit it starts to get a nice satin finish. If you are going to use an outer wrap on your handle, you could sand this with 400 grit and stop.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0471.jpg)
Post by: kcdaniels on March 26, 2005, 11:06:00 PM
Good job :thumbsup:
Dan
Post by: John Cooper on March 26, 2005, 11:07:00 PM
~John
Post by: Luke Vander Vennen on March 26, 2005, 11:12:00 PM
I'll have to try that for tip overlays
Post by: Dave Bulla on March 26, 2005, 11:18:00 PM
I sanded with worn out 400 grit paper and would have used 600 if I had some. Then I used some Six-0 steel wool and to get a super fine shine, I dug out a sheet of 2400 grit micromesh polishing cloth I had from my pool playing days. That makes it look like glass! Since most of you won't have anything that fine, just flip your 400 or 600 grit paper over and use the back side or you can even use a dollar bill.
Here is a straight on view. I really like how the layers of leather show a little and look like wood grain. By the way, there is no finish on that at all except the crazy glue. A little car wax on there and it will shine like wet paint.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0476.jpg)
And a side view.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0477.jpg)
My objective for this whole project was to of course show my method to round out the back of the handle so it feels better in the hand. But my goals during the process were to get as smooth of a transition as possible from the overlay to the back of the limb and to have the whole overlay be as smooth and even in finish as I could get it. I think I got it right where I wanted because I can't feel the transition with my fingers and I can't find a blemish in the finish.
It's a little tricky to shape an overlay until you think of it just like shaping the other side of the handle. If you can build a bulbous handle in your stave, you can repeat the same process in the overlay and get the nice flowing lines that just melt in the hand and please the eye. It's a simple matter of going from a convex shape to a nearly concave one as you fade into the back of the bow. I'm sure glad Dean Torges has shared his methods for shaping handles... I actually started out doing this leather overlay because he recommended it to round out the handle in his book. But it was my own idea to use super glue and sand it to a fine polish. I showed it to Dean at Mojam and he liked it enough that he said he now uses the super glue himself. I don't know if he does the polish like I do but he uses it to "size" the leather before putting the wrap on the handle.
I actually like this dark leather more than I thought I would. It contrasts nice with the white sapwood. It almost looks like ebony. I might have to try this color again sometime. I wonder how colored leathers like green, red and blue would work????
Well, it's late now and tomorrow is easter. I gotta run and pretend I'm a rabbit if ya know what I mean. ;) :knothead:
Post by: Timo on March 26, 2005, 11:52:00 PM
Post by: '46 on March 27, 2005, 12:22:00 AM
Post by: clintopher on March 27, 2005, 07:08:00 AM
Clint
Post by: JC on March 27, 2005, 07:18:00 AM
Hey, show the wrapped lace handle too...I thought that was unique look.
Post by: DCM on March 27, 2005, 07:48:00 AM
Post by: Huntrdfk on March 27, 2005, 08:09:00 AM
David
Post by: Randy Morin on March 27, 2005, 08:38:00 AM
Post by: Ray on March 27, 2005, 08:51:00 AM
Post by: G on March 27, 2005, 10:50:00 AM
Post by: Dave Bulla on March 27, 2005, 09:53:00 PM
Got your pm on your attempt. How did the acetone work out? Can ya post a pic?
Post by: Dano on March 28, 2005, 08:54:00 AM
Post by: Madpigslayer on March 28, 2005, 11:27:00 AM
Post by: Dave Bulla on March 28, 2005, 09:47:00 PM
This first shot is a small piece of leather that I cut to wrap 3/4 of the way around the handle so the shelves are connected on the belly side. No particular reason for it other than I think it will look nice when it's done. Notice the curved cuts on the top and bottom. The top will actually make a straight line around the bow when it's installed and the bottom will be curved. Go figure...
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0522.jpg)
Here it's installed and I also trimmed the edge closest to the back overlay ust because it looked like it needed it after it was glued on.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0523.jpg)
Here's the other side. I've started to skive the edges and it's ready for some glue and then second and third layers. Since I've shown that before, I'll skip ahead a bit for the next pic.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0524.jpg)
Post by: Scooby on March 28, 2005, 10:10:00 PM
No just kidding I like the laminated look of the several layers of leather I didn't realize that was how you did it. I guess I better pay better attention next time.
I also like the contrast of the dark leather and the sapwood SHARP!!!!
Scott
Post by: Dave Bulla on March 28, 2005, 10:17:00 PM
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0525.jpg)
Same stage but soaked good with glue.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0526.jpg)
Here is a side view of it all sanded and polished up to a nice shine.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0529.jpg)
And lastly a back view showing both shelves. Sure don't look like leather does it?
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/DaveBulla/Img_0530.jpg)
Post by: horseapple on March 28, 2005, 10:39:00 PM
Post by: nick_the_tinkerer on March 29, 2005, 01:02:00 AM
Thanks for the knowledge....
Nick
Post by: Mark Baker on March 29, 2005, 01:35:00 AM
Post by: Mark Baker on March 29, 2005, 01:37:00 AM
Post by: Tom Leemans on March 29, 2005, 08:34:00 AM
Post by: trashwood on March 29, 2005, 08:44:00 AM
rusty
Post by: Dave Bulla on March 29, 2005, 10:27:00 AM
Funny, but I just get more enjoyment from fine scraping, sanding and polishing than I do from the bulk work of wood removal and tillering. I guess it's just more my speed. If I ever get a tiller tree rigged up I'll have to work on that part more and teach myself to "see" good tiller and then learn how to get from crappy tiller TO good tiller. Guess I gotta build bows more often than I usually do. I've only built three that are still together plus one that broke and a hatchet bow that is in danger of it so I don't know much about it yet. Two of the three were intentional kids bows and the third was for my wife so it was barely more than a kids bow. The one that broke was for myself and I broke it because I didn't listen to Rusty's advice....
Post by: JC on March 29, 2005, 10:35:00 AM
Post by: the Ferret on March 29, 2005, 03:57:00 PM
That is outstandingly beautiful work!
Post by: olFatGuy KenWood on March 29, 2005, 07:38:00 PM
KenWood
Post by: G on March 29, 2005, 09:02:00 PM
Thanks again, George Robbins
Post by: DCM on March 29, 2005, 09:40:00 PM
Post by: '46 on March 29, 2005, 11:29:00 PM
Post by: Dave Bulla on March 30, 2005, 04:10:00 PM
J.D., you could bet there's only one direction I'd wrap the leather if I were to do that kind of handle, THE RIGHT WAY!!!! :readit: :bigsmyl:
A man's gotta stand by his opinions eh?
By the way, if anyone has any questions about this or thinks I didn't explain somethine, feel free to ask.
Post by: Dave Bulla on April 28, 2005, 06:36:00 AM
Blair, you could do this method on the belly side of your handle to make the humps you talked about.
Post by: joseph_valencia on April 28, 2005, 08:04:00 PM
Post by: Dave Bulla on April 29, 2005, 05:28:00 AM
Post by: Squirrel Bait on August 02, 2006, 09:13:00 PM
Post by: **DONOTDELETE** on August 02, 2006, 09:24:00 PM
Post by: Longbow_Jim on August 02, 2006, 09:59:00 PM
Post by: JBell on August 03, 2006, 12:01:00 AM
Post by: tradtusker on August 03, 2006, 03:32:00 AM
Post by: NorthShoreLB on August 03, 2006, 05:45:00 AM
Manny
Post by: robtattoo on August 03, 2006, 07:13:00 AM
Post by: Lewis Brookshire III on August 03, 2006, 07:18:00 AM