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Topic Archives => Memorable Hunts => Topic started by: Missouri Sherpa on August 06, 2006, 02:23:00 AM
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I have posted a few pics on another site that might be of interest to some here that do not frequent the elk forum. I hunt with a longbow, make all of my pack equipment, and raise my own packstock.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/llamas/llamajpeg1.jpg
I have been busy getting ready for another expedition into the high country. I plan to pack in a little over 5 miles and climb over 3500 ft in altitude change. I am taking in a wall tent, wood stove, frozen steaks, clothes, bedding, propane, hunting and fishing gear and camp supplies for 5 people, off and on over 20 days of Colorado elk season. I have pictured some of my pack stock doing what they do best.
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Try again.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/llamas/llamajpeg1.jpg)
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Much better.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/llamas/llamajpeg2.jpg)
These are Norwegian Fjords. Not too tall, about 14.2-14.3 hands so they are easy to load and gentle as dead pigs. Real nice driving team and they will follow the lead mare around without pigtailing them together when they pack. The brown dun is my saddle horse, equipped with power steering and power brakes. An old team penning horse, 15.3 hands, lots of heart and smart. He has never dumped me in the 9 years I have owned him. These guys are as good of pack horses as I know of, never had a wreck with them in several trips but they are too much work for me in elk camp. They are going to draw a pass for elk season. They can keep on eating.
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(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/llamas/llamajpeg3.jpg)
The Llamas are going to get the call for duty this trip. This pic should be Bandit. Take a good look at him if you are interested in getting a pack llama. He is tall at the shoulder for a llama. Straight long back, athletic and muscular but not beefy or overweight. Lots of ground clearance for stepping over deadfalls and wading rushing creeks. I raised this llama and he is now just over 4 years old. He packed a light load for me last year and is now ready for full time duty.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/llamas/llamajpeg4.jpg)
This should be Bandit and Gateway saddled up and ready for some trail work. They are half brothers born a day apart. Gateway is also a big structually correct llama and a real good packer. They are out of a stud that placed second in his class at the American Royal. He was a sad loss for me when I had to put him down due to meningeal worm.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/llamas/llamajpeg5.jpg)
This should be Patrick and Bull. My smallest and largest packers. Bull, the appalouse, is a giant of a llama with testicals as big as baseballs. He was the Grand Champion llama at the Iowa State Fair a few years ago. Patrick is a full brother to Gateway but he is kind of a runt. He is only 3 years old. He packed a case of mountain dew up to camp for me last year. He didn't cost me anything and doesn't eat much and has a lot of heart. He is structurally correct and he doesn't have any quit in him so I will keep him. Bull on the other hand, in spite of his great size (about 425 pounds and so wide he hardly fits in my chute) and strength turns out to be a quitter. A real slacker. He is lazy and does not pack up to his potential. He will pack a light load all day so he makes the cut.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/llamas/llamajpeg6.jpg)
These are my senior packers, Andy and Dooley. They are old steady hands, even tempered and know their business. They have been up and down the mountain many times. Good sized, and never quit. Old Dooley, the white llama, is going on 10 years old. I have a couple of young llamas out of him that should make great packers some day. (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/llamas/llamajpeg7.jpg)
Winston and Stuart here. Stuart is another appalouse that was given to me by some people that couldn't take care of him very well. I had been helping them by shearing him, trimming his nails, worming him etc. because they couldn't afford a vet. Mercifully they gave him up and after I worked off about 100 pounds of fat he made a decent packer last year. Winston is a young llama, 3.5 years old, kind of tempermental and has to be at the tail end of the string but he does well as a packer.
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(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/llamas/llamajpeg8.jpg)
This should be one of my saddles. An early prototype I made out of 3/4" steel tubing, 3/4"plywood, leather and pony girths. The only thing wrong with this design of saddle is that it weighs more than it needs to. This saddle fits good and has never sored the back of a llama. It does not slip in any direction once it is properly fitted to its wearer. The saddle pads are horse pack pads cut in half.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/llamas/llamajpeg9.jpg)
This is what I consider an improved design of saddle with a spring bar made out of 3/8" cold rolled steel and a little angle iron instead of hinged square tubing. It weighs one third less than my first design and it held up just as well on last years trip. It has fewer parts and is easier to make. I make all of my equipment including: halters, picket stakes, lead ropes, saddles, draft horse and llama stocks, gates, stoves, collapsible tent poles, pack harness(for horses and llamas) etc.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/llamas/llamajpeg10.jpg)
This should show the rigging straps that attach the coolers or packs to the saddles. I have used rope to lash things to the saddle but over several miles and banging packs and coolers on trees etc they ropes slip and you end up having to re rig one or two units every 2-3 miles. With these leather straps and buckles you just hang them on and pull the strap tight and buckle it, never comes loose on the trail. You do not need to know how to throw a box hitch, diamond hitch, double diamond or anything else. I do know how throw those hitches for packing horses but llama packing is much simpler.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/llamas/llamajpeg11.jpg)
Here is ole Dooley packed up with some coolers ready to go. I use these 28 quart coolers to haul my camp gear and groceries. They are just the right size for a llama to pack and I bought them right. Less than $10.00 a box for coleman coolers on end of season closeout at Wal-mart. Historically I have loaded my llamas with about 75 pounds apiece. With a load like that they can go 5 miles, climbing 3000 ft in a little over 4 hours. They are pretty well spent after a trip like that. One of these coolers will hold about 35 pounds of frozen grub, so 2 coolers and the saddle will peg 75 pounds. My first stove weighed 45 pounds so with a counter weight on the other side Andrew was packing over 95 pounds those trips. I give them a breather for a couple of minutes out of every ten and they keep going for me all the way to camp. You cannot go nonstop with them or they will just give up. I made a new stove, smaller and thinner 22 guage steel that weighs in at 23 pounds. We will make better time this year. I plan to average 45 pounds a llama this year, traveling light and going into higher and steeper country than usual, thus the need for 8 llamas this expedition.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/llamas/llamajpeg12.jpg)
Here is Andy with the new light weight stove. I primarily burn wood with this stove but also have a slot cut in the door to accomodate a benzomatic propane torch. The stove will get plenty hot to cook with just with the propane. The stove exhaust in the back gives full use of the stove top for cooking. I rolled up some 22 guage steel to make the exhaust pipe to fit a 4 inch flexible aluminum vent. It works great. The pipe flexes up and down with the movement of the roof/stove jack and never comes off the stove. I have had strong wind lift a stove pipe to come off the stove and fill the tent with smoke which is something you don't want to experience, especially if you are burning some wet pine on a windy and rainy night. The red cooler is filled with propane bottles and some extra rope for hanging groceries in the trees. I use a bungee cord to secure a sleeping bag or eggcrate pad as a top load. They ride real good on top of these saddles that way.
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(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/llamas/llamajpeg13.jpg)
Here we are doing a little trail work. I saddle them up and put anywhere from 8-10 llamas in a string and take them to the woods. I have 30 acres of hilly timber with lots of trails and creek crossings to negotiate. They figure out real quick they have to walk single file and if they try to pass to go around they get their face slammed into the next tree. This training is great for when you go bushwacking cross country where there are no trails. I used these guys to pack in bear baits in the Selway Wilderness last year and they went places a horse would never be able to. We had to hold trees and bushes apart to get through thick brush and timber. A good llama knows his stuff and can comprehend what you are trying to get him to do so it is enjoyable to have such a partner working with you in those kinds of conditions.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/llamas/llamajpeg14.jpg)
Here we are resting by the dog kennel after a couple of miles of hiking. I have been putting in about 2 miles a day 6 of the past 7 days. It has been unbearably hot so I usually don't pack them up until dark, and even then I just about lost one of my best llamas, Fabio. He was down for three solid days with heat stroke and I thought he was going to die. He is the most overweight of all my boys and it caught up with him. He is up and around now but will stay home this year. Packing through the timber in the dark keeps them on their toes lined out in single file. I only take two people with me at a time which is perfect for my 12.5x12.5 Alaknak tent. Myself and 4 guests over two weeks is about all I can accomodate and still have a good hunt. I am spending the first five days by myself which I enjoy immensely much to my wifes dismay.
This elk hunting is a disease that consumes you and as you can see I have it pretty bad. Outside of work and family my whole world revolves around being ready to pack in to a remote area, any remote area that I want to go to, to hunt elk. I pretty well have all of the bugs worked out and have about as bulletproof system as I can muster. I am looking forward to the day when I can spend Mid August through October in the mountains and it is going to be a while before I can swing it, but that day will come.
I might add that anyone that is considering getting their own llamas feel free to call me. I am not selling any but I have many years of experience and can point you in the right direction or give you my perspective on what you might have planned. I am running out of gas. Maybe some more pics tomorrow.
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Wow! man o man that looks like a real good trip to be on. I'm sure there are heaps of hands going up when called for hunters!
Keep on comming with the pics please.
Regards from Oz, alan
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Thanks for this thread! It's my brand-new all-time favorite! PLEASE keep us posted on your hunt. How large a truck/trailer do you need for your pack string?
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Enjoyed every word, picture, and imagagining this thread brought to my mind and eye.
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Thanks for sharing!
I could use one of them aminals to pack in my lock on stands! :smileystooges:
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Besides they got'a beat a 4-wheeler,,, I hate them contraptions!
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(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/llamas2/ll2jpeg.jpg)
This is my version of Elkforce I. It is a twenty foot gooseneck 4-horse slant with a tack room in the rear and a dressing room up front. I can haul 4 horses or 10 llamas with ease. I hang hay bags inside and turn the llamas loose so they can feed while we travel. I have a cot and stove in the dressing quarters and have camped out of this trailer on a few hunting trips. The dressing room is nice to hold all of the hunting gear so nothing is left in the truckbed to get wet or unsecure.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/llamas2/ll2jpeg2.jpg)
This Dodge diesel provides plenty of pulling power and has been a good truck for me. I only put about 5000-6000 miles a year on it so it could easily last me another 10 years. I have some new fenders and a paint job waiting for this truck when elk season is over.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/llamas2/ll2jpeg3.jpg) Fabio and Dude. Dude is just a year old but he is going to be a big llama some day. Fabio is still suffering from the heat.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/llamas2/ll2jpeg4.jpg)
This is my main barn. Nice straight old barn with new siding and roof. This barn was first listed on the Polk County tax rolls in 1898. Hopefully it will last another 100 years. I keep llamas and horses in the basement where it is cool. I store about 1500 small sqare bales in the upper levels along with tack and grain rooms.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/llamas2/ll2jpeg5.jpg) I am in an endless quest to find better cheaper ways of doing things. I had a mirafount water fountain that was supposed to be freezeproof. I don't have enough animals drinking out of it to keep up the water flow so it does freeze up. I put a toilet tank valve in the bottom of this water tank and a 2 gallon jug for a float. With an electric tank heater this should keep fresh water year round. I buried an electric line in conduit under the concrete to the post by the water tank for the tank heater.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/llamas2/ll2jpeg6.jpg)
I have an enormous pile of hay right now. I like to keep at least 2 years supply on hand in case we run into a drought situation and hay becomes hard to find. The large round bales are getting so big (some up to 2400 pounds) my 45 HP tractor would not pick them up high enough to clear the top of the bale feeder. This skid loader handles such loads with ease and has been a fun addition to my barn lot.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/llamas2/ll2jpeg7.jpg)
I have 4 large fans like these 32 inch round fans running round the clock in hot weather. Llamas do not do well in really hot humid conditions. The underground basement location and these fans keep them cool.
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(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/llamas2/ll2jpeg8.jpg)
Here Gateway demonstrates the llama stocks. This llama restraint device is made out of 1" 11guage square tubing. It is a must have piece of equipment if you are going to do much with llamas. I use it for worming, vaccinations, antibiotic injections, foot trimming, haircuts, castrations and vet inspections. I do all of my own vet work except for having a health inspection before any trip. The vet really appreciated well trained animals and a retraint chute.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/llamas2/ll2jpeg16.jpg)
As a brief aside, I made this draft horse stocks out of 4 inch steel tubing. It is anchored to 4 ft deep x 12 concrete pilings. I would hate to have a horse tip over on me. I do some of my own farrier work and this is good for floating teeth, drawing blood, vaccinations, OB exams etc. The vet likes this unit also. Once a horse is chained into here there really isn't much they can do.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/llamas2/ll2jpeg9.jpg)
Every saddle and halter has a name tag on it. Not so I remember their names but so I get the same equipment on each animal every time. I dont like to waste time adjusting straps every time we saddle up. The ropes all have two large swivel bull snaps. The rope is doubled over as a lead rope or extended single as a picket line. Each llama carries his own rebar stake attached to his saddle. A llama will eat just about anything, enjoy and do well. I do not pack any feed to camp. I drive the picket stake in with an eastwing axe and the llamas are able to negotiate the picket line without getting tangled up.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/llamas2/ll2jpeg10.jpg)
A highline is good for llamas just like it is for horses. You don't always find enough trees close by to tie to. I made these highline keepers out of 3/8" steel and they stay put. I like to use the bull snaps because I do not trust most people to tie a knot to my satisfaction. Most people can handle a snap. The bull snaps are probaly overkill but I have never had one fail on me.
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(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/llamas2/ll2jpeg11.jpg)
This little device, a packers scale is most important when you are packing up. I like to have my loads weigh within a pound on each side. I also use it as a bow scale. (http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/llamas2/ll2jpeg12.jpg)
Here are the pack boxes for 5 llamas. 6 coolers for groceries, 2 coolers for camp stuff like lanterns, cookpans, water filters etc. and one cooler for propane.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/llamas2/ll2jpeg13.jpg)
When you have this much tack to keep track of you need to stay organized. This rack holds a dozen saddles, and multiple halters, lead ropes, pack harness, pack pads etc. Sorry for the mess in my shop, I wasn't anticipating visitors.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/llamas2/ll2jpeg14.jpg)
Bandit is loaded up with an Alaknak tent. This used to be a half load but since I cant make it any smaller and want to lighten the loads some lucky llama is going to have less than 40 pounds to carry this year.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/llamas2/ll2jpeg15.jpg)
Gateway is sporting a couple of green army duffle bags lashed to his saddle with a pair of tiedown straps. His packs contain the tent fly, a pair of eastwing axes, a pair of bowsaws, the stove pipe, tent poles and stakes and some tarps. I use army duffle bags for clothing as well. Each hunter gets one bag not to exceed 25 pounds of clothes and personal effects.
I hope you have been entertained by this tour of my operation. I am ready to pull out for a trip right now. I do not usually take any pictures because after a while the scenery all looks the same and pictures do not do the landscape any justice. Digital cameras now make it easier and I will try to capture some pictures of my next trip.
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Yowza.
LIGHTENED the load to a 23# stove! Thats around half my total weight for many week plus trips that I do!
One of them beast could do wonderfully for me as I rarely do a trip that needs that amount of gear. We call those "Disco Hunts" where you have THAT much stuff and luxury! In those cases I just stay in a hotel.
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There are no hotels 5 miles deep into the wilderness at 11000 ft. I like to set up a base camp about 5 miles in from the trailhead and hunt out a 4-5 mile radius from camp. I can cover a lot of ground and very rarely see anyone. I prefer to eat ribeyes and frozen vegetables instead of a mountain house meal. I have been on a couple of outfitted hunts and I liked it. I have taken measures to be able to do it better and for less by myself whenever I can. I have family and friends that would not be able to go if I didn't take them. Don't get the idea that I am that generous because I get something out of it. My wife cannot stand it when I do these trips solo and it gives her peace of mind to know that someone will be with me when I disappear to the mountains for 10 days at a time. I also get help sharing gas expenses, sawing wood, filtering water, making camp and looking after the llamas.
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I was joking on the hotel part.
I am about to do a ten day solo interior sheep hunt. Sure would like to stuff a lama in the supercub to carry my Mountain House!
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A friend and I rented llamas one year for a mule deer hunt in Nevada. It was a great trip and I really enjoyed using the animals. We were able to take a very nice camp about 7 miles up the mountain. Unfortunately, we didn't get to use them to pack out meat like we had planned, but it sure was a cool hunt.
Thanks for sharing a fantastic pictorial about your passion.
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I loved this thread and would go with you anytime. good luck and good hunting.
btw do you have a bow rack on one? lol
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"Sorry for the mess in my shop, I wasn't anticipating visitors."
You've got a big operation going there and everything looks very well squared away. Very impressive. Have a great hunt!
:notworthy:
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I get the impression you would be a hard man to keep up with. When do you sleep? That's one nice full time operation there. Do you farm full time?
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I am only a hobby farmer. There will be plenty of time to sleep when the dirt nap calls for you, otherwise I do stay pretty busy. I am a Physician, Nuclear Medicine Specialist at my day job. You can take the boy off of the farm but you can't take the farm out of the boy. Thanks for the kind word.
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whats the name of the elk forum you refrenced?
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That would be the Bowsite, elk forum.
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John, thanks for the GREAT info, for those of us considering llamas for backcountry hunting. I'd love to share a camp with a serious llama owner like you, just to see how everything works, before making the commitment to llamas. Since we can't share a camp with you this fall, the next best thing would be plenty of photos when you return from your adventure. I can't wait!
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Jeff,
Under penalty of death, or at least a severe beating, members of the circle of trust are obligated to protect the secret location of all hunting areas we are known to frequent. I am afraid the penalty of taking anyone new and therefore by default disclosing said locations, prevents me from sharing elk camp with you or anyone else, as much as I might want to. ;) I would extend an invitation to any of you to visit if you are interested in learning more about the care and handling of llamas, sources and selection of decent pack llama prospects and making your own pack equiment, restraint chute etc.
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That is an amazing set up!
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AWESOME!!!
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Sounds good, you may be getting a visitor soon. I'm headed through Des Moines this fall, on the way home from my own backcountry adventure........
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You ROCK
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Hey, awesome pics!! I also use llamas to pack into wilderness areas...they work great!
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LOL, Hey go over to the Llama and grab me a beer!
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Thanks, Great pictorial, Descriptions etc.
Best of luck in the west this year.
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Tom, I had to read it twice. But I laughes so hard the second time I about lost my job!!!!
Missou Sherp, thanks much!
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I have a great deal of admiration for you and your 1. organizational skills 2.talents in many different disciplines 3. skill with handling critters 4. your beautiful farm
Where do you find the time for all this though? Between practicing my bow, earning a living, spending a little time with family, church, and scouting whitetails, I have little time left for sleep.
how on earth do you get time to do all that prep work??? I am envious.
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Ray,
I keep busy year round. I do not come in to the house until it is too dark to see and I have pretty much sworn off watching any television. I do all of my computer surfing and topozone scouting on line at work. I have to shut down the machine shop at 10:00pm so my neighbors don't complain about the noise from the hammering and grinding. I don't play golf, go fishing, socialize with normal non-hunting people, or allow anyone or anything that is not a priority, intrusion into my schedule. I make two written lists every night before I go to bed. One list is what I plan to achieve the next day and the other list of projects planned over the next weeks to months. I work horses and llamas beginning in May as soon as the morel mushroom crop is in. From May through November it is preparations for hunting(working llamas or horses, shooting longbows, getting and keeping equipment ready) or actual hunting trips. From November after the whitetail rut through mid-May it is maintenence and shop time when I fabricate and repair pack equipment, farm equipment, fences, new barn roofs etc. In the winter I refletch or make up 5-6 dozen carbon arrows which will just about last me through deer season and work on making knives, leather crafts etc. I have to make time to mow the yard and I put in a big garden but with proper equipment that doesn't take long. I have an indoor shooting range in my basement where I shoot my bow a little, just about every day all winter long. Several years ago I stopped bending wrenches and doing most of my mechanic work and oil changes because I can pay someone to do that so I can do something else. My wife is in charge of rotating vehicles through the shop for service. When I have to go to a meeting or take the family on vacation we fly because it saves time and at the price of gas today flying is not much more expensive. I think flying is cheap when I consider the value of my time spent staring through a windshield. I have only been to see any of my inlaws twice (Christmas visits) over the past ten years. They don't interest me that much and if they really want to see me they know where I live. You have to prioritize.
My family has matured somewhat. I have two girls in high school that have discovered boys and don't have as much time or need for Dad as they used too, a son that is a Senior in College who is going elk hunting with me in three weeks and a Daughter in her third year of medical school that has precious little free time for the next few years. For years I worked over 100 hours a week, so my wife and family are accustomed to my schedule of not hanging around the house much. These days I work about 50 hours a week including drive time, sleep about 50 hours a week, so that leaves 68 hours a week to be productive. I take 10 weeks of vacation a year which gives me time for family vacation, 4-5 weeks of hunting trips and some additional farm time. I have been at this, at this pace for 12 years so it doesn't just happen overnight. Before I had the farm I used to make selfbows and I have a pile of bamboo slats, osage, hickory, and mulberry staves waiting for me, but I do not have the time to get back to it. Last year I was general contractor for the new home I built and that nearly killed me being on site two to three times a day for 9 months but I was still able to keep up with the farm and two trips to Canada, hunts for bear, mule deer, antelope, elk, and whitetail deer. I just sleep less when I have to.
You can do it. If you commit your mind, time and resources there isn't much you can't accomplish in this country.
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WOW ...........Is All I can Say!! :thumbsup: :archer:
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Sherpa,
I have read with interest your posts. I am acquiring llamas this next weekend for the first time. I really appreciate your photos and I will try to copy the gear if you don't mind. I also make my horse gear, etc and am handy with leathe and tools, so I'm sure I can get the outfit ready. I live in desert Idaho, and don't have any brushy trails to excercise the animals, but how much training/excercise do they need to be ready to hunt? Also, these llamas are a bit older, I think around 10 years and haven't been packed before. What's the training curve?
thanks, Nate.
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This may have been the "coolest" thread I've read on the gang... Although it did make me feel lazy.. I thought I stayed busy... LOL
GREAT Post !!!
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(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/nucduke/vegasjb.jpg)
Here you can put a face with the name. This was taken about a month ago at Hoover Dam. Boy what a waste of real estate Las Vegas area is. This is me and my youngest daughter on a family vacation (yes I do go on family trips).
Sadly I have lost most of my hair,am nearly 50 years old and 250 pounds but I still get around pretty good for a fat crippled old man. I have to use pack animals to get me into the high country.
Nate,
I had one older llama, 12 years old, a high dollar stud llama that turned up sterile and was of no use as a breeder. He originally sold for 15,000.00 and was a real looker. I gelded him to put him into the right frame of mind and he was packing like a champ in just a few days. That llama, Mac was his name, ended up going to a bowhunter in Arkansas. He was a good one.
Most of my llamas are raised by me or purchased when they are two years old. I like to get big stout 4-H project llamas that are well broke to lead and have been handled by kids a lot. They are easy to train. Male llamas are not allowed in the 4-H program after age of 2 so they end up getting rid of them. Intact males can be aggressive and too much for a kid to handle sometimes. If they are already broke to lead half the battle is won. The next step is to get a saddle on them and take them for a long walk until they get used to it. Then I introduce them to a load. I like to use cinder blocks, or 2 gallon jugs full of sand. 4 jugs or 2 cinderblocks will weigh about 70-80 pounds. They might pitch and buck a little but after loading them a few times they will be okay. I like to take them in the woods so they can bang into trees and get used to how wide their packs are. They will learn to avoid getting to close after a few trips. If you have easy trainers and stay with it you can have them pretty well broke in a week or less. The important thing is to work with them. Keep handling them and they will be easier to work with. I do a total body shearing every spring to help keep them cool and to let them know that I can run those scissors all over them and that I am not going to hurt them. What you are doing is establishing and building trust. If they trust you, they will follow you just about anywhere. If they dont trust you they will lock their legs and you wont be able to budge them. A word of caution on getting older llamas. A llama can be a good packer until he is 15-20 years old if he stays sound and you don't work him hard or often. Llamas can get swaybacked when they get old and are unfit to pack. Their main weakpoint is their pasterns. If those suspensory ligaments give out in the feet, your llama is not going to pack anymore. I had a female that was going swaybacked and down in her pasterns when she was 12 years old. Look them over pretty carefully if they have some age on them. Most people will tell you a llama is not physically mature to pack until he is 3-4 years old. I start mine at 2 and a half with a light load like some sleeping bags or a case of pop. At three and a half to 4 years they have a year of experience and are physically mature to pack full time, and that would apply to commercial packers. Occaisional infrequent use, family packers might be able to pack more than I do at that age but I do not want to risk damaging those back ligaments or pasterns only to have them give out prematurely. As far as how much excercise do they need? Thats up to you depending on how hard you are going to have to push them to get where you want to go. I like to go high and camp around 10-11,000 ft. and go in 4-5 miles from the trailhead. To be able to get there in 4 hours I like to put in 2-3 miles a night three times a week loaded with 80 pounds on their saddles. I try to do this for at least a month before I leave. By then they are really used to being handled and with the hot humid conditions we have here in Iowa they cool mountain air trip is not too bad for them. I give them a breather for 2 minutes out of every ten. If they know the routine that they are going to get to rest and munch on some brush every few minutes they will accept that pace. My first trip with llamas I hauled a$$ up the mountain as fast as I could and they completely gave out after a mile and a half and a 2000 ft climb. They laid down and refused to go any further. I gave up on llamas that trip and did not try to use them again for 2 years. By then I had if figured out better how to pack, make a good saddle, not overload, and pace them. Makes a world of difference in what you can get out of them.
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Thanks for a great thread and a ton of inspiration. I wish you were my neighbor.
Tray E.
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looking at all the pic's and reading your stories was great....Need any help on your farm?
Tanks 4 shairing
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Salvatore,
While I could always use help on the farm, that would defeat some of its value and purpose for me. This is what I do to keep busy. I cannot tell you how many trips to the in-laws this has spared me. All I have to do is say I cannot be gone that long, someone has to take care of the animals. If I had someone to help me then I wouldn't have that great excuse.
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I like your tactics when it comes to your in-laws. I really don't have much in common with mine either.
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Thanks, John.
I was also given just today, a chance for a couple of 3 year olds. I'm going to get the llamas and see what happens. I think that I will like this stuff.
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John,
I total understand, was just trying to find a reason to move to Iowa..LOL...I worked with Alpaca's and I really liked working with them.. Nice Llama's you have there....
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John,
My wife and I are looking at a hike on the Appalachian Trail a couple of years from now.... I'm too old to backpack the gear myself..... llamas are a serious option.
Your schedule wears me out just reading it!!
All the Best......Lobo in West Virginia
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John,
Thanks for sharing. Like Ray said, I too am impressed with the organization, motivation and energy!
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You may want to check regulations on parts of the Appalachian trail where you want to go. For some reason it comes to mind that pack animals are not allowed everywhere. I have never been there but seems like this came up somewhere before. Best double check before you get llamas for that purpose.
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John,
Thanks for the heads up.....it never occurred to me!
Lobo in West Virginia
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To the top for UKarcher
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Thank you Missouri Sherpa, it's taken me a few days to get here because of work, but it was well worth it. Your llamas all look like they have a lot of character. This subject interests me because in the past I have done a lot of trekking, carrying a thirty pound pack and I have got to the age where that sort of thing hurts. I want to do a lot of exploring when I move to the US and pack animals may be the answer.
Graham