Post by: Don Thomas on June 11, 2006, 08:30:00 PM
Post by: T. Downing on June 11, 2006, 08:38:00 PM
Post by: Raven on June 11, 2006, 08:38:00 PM
Times are changing. :confused:
!["[dntthnk]"]("graemlins/dntthnk.gif" "\"\"")
Thanks for the heads up on this matter!
Post by: Steve H. on June 11, 2006, 08:39:00 PM
Yeah, its worse than a drawlock, didn't think it was possible!
Post by: Stalker58 on June 11, 2006, 08:42:00 PM
Anyway for someone to make money.
Post by: MWM on June 11, 2006, 08:45:00 PM
Post by: Terry Green on June 11, 2006, 08:46:00 PM
We are preparing a letter an easy way for those who oppose this to contact them. We were hoping to get this out earlier today....but there's some software or code that we need to make it effortless.
In the mean time....here's some addresses we've found that anyone that cares to can contact.
Media Contacts
Ken Mandelkern
[email protected]
John McCartney
[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected]
Three sponsors -
G5 Outdoors - [email protected]
Xtreme Scents - [email protected]
Pneu-Dart - [email protected]
Post by: Glenn29 on June 11, 2006, 08:49:00 PM
Thanks for posting this Mr. Thomas and I figured it was just a matter of time after several hunting shows came out with "Team" hunting....I won't name names :saywhat:
And the sad thing is that there is hunters who think this is a great idea
P.S. did ya'll watch his little streaming video...makes you sick!
Post by: Van/TX on June 11, 2006, 08:52:00 PM
Post by: John Scifres on June 11, 2006, 08:57:00 PM
Their listed sponsors are G5 Outdoors (http://www.g5outdoors.com/main/Default.aspx) , Xtreme Scents (http://www.xtremescents.com/xtreme/hunting.htm) , and Pneu Dart (https://www.pneudart.com/index.php) . You can go to these companies' websites and contact them about the sponsorship to start but more effective may be to go the dealers. The first 2 list their dealers. G5 seem mostly small dealers while the scent company look to be the big guys like Cabelas.
Nip this one in the bud!
Post by: vermonster13 on June 11, 2006, 08:58:00 PM
Post by: High Desert Hunter on June 11, 2006, 09:13:00 PM
Post by: bbassi on June 11, 2006, 09:16:00 PM
This makes me sick!
Post by: huntwisely on June 11, 2006, 09:16:00 PM
Post by: Jack Shanks on June 11, 2006, 09:19:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 11, 2006, 09:27:00 PM
Post by: bbassi on June 11, 2006, 09:30:00 PM
“We are prepared to lead the hunting industry into new areas of Tour events and state-of-the-art website interactivity that promise to deliver the excitement of hunting to a new audience while showcasing the passion and skills of the professional hunter in full-scale, NON-FATAL competition,” noted Farbman. “The WHA fills a void by providing a platform that benefits the entire international hunting industry today and for generations to come.”
Non-Fatal huh? I wondered why this Pneu-Dart company was sponsoring. Now we know. This just sounds worse by the moment.
Post by: Ray Hammond on June 11, 2006, 09:34:00 PM
Here is what I wrote yesterday evening
I just read about your company on a website called www.worldhunt.com. (http://www.worldhunt.com.)
It lists you as a sponsor. Have you actually read what this fellow is proposing to do, and have you then thought about the consequences of this proposal? For crying out loud gentlemen and/ or ladies, you cannot be seriously considering helping this man destroy hunting, can you?
I am a life member of the Rocky Mtn Elk Foundation, life member of PBS, founder of Suburban Whitetail Management of North GA, Inc, and state Vice Chairman of the GA Chapter of the NBEF and I have seen a lot of very offensive things in the thirty five years I have been associated with hunting, but I've never seen anything more abominable, more frightening in its potential for harm than this event.
If you insist on continuing as a sponsor of this worldhunt.com I will use every available resource at my disposal to prevent you from selling ANY product to anyone that I have influence over. I will encourage everyone I know to do the same.
Consider well the potential for long term harm this project has to the sport that DRIVES your business!
I stand ready to be persuaded by you that I am wrong. I seriously doubt, however, that you can muster a cogent, logical appeal that will satisfy my concerns.
Ray Hammond
Post by: vermonster13 on June 11, 2006, 09:35:00 PM
Lost Arrow Resort on the Water
1749 Bomanville Road
Gladwin, MI 48624
Mailing Address:
P.O. Box 248
West Branch, MI 48661
Phone Numbers:
Local: (989) 345-7774
Toll Free: (866) 51-Relax
Fax: (989) 345-3743
General Manager: Denise Sterling-Likavec
Post by: Glenn29 on June 11, 2006, 09:35:00 PM
Post by: Mike Tomano on June 11, 2006, 09:36:00 PM
TOMANO
Post by: huntwisely on June 11, 2006, 09:45:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mike Tomano:I have to both agree and disagree - the outdoor community does indeed eat itself. By with CWD and other diseases on the loose, outlawing game farms and game ranches make scientific sense. In our are a game farm has had escapes of animals that are tested for some diseases, but unfortunately there is no test for CWD that can be applied to a live animal.
It's ridiculous. But then again, so is a call BY HUNTERS to outlaw game farms & ranches, ban crossbow seasons, support Sunday Hunting restrictions and the like. The one thing that can be said about the outdoor community is that it eats itself.
TOMANO
Lets agree that canned hunts, non-lethal hunts and making hunting a spectator sport along the lines of NASCAR is fuel for the fires of anti-hunters.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 11, 2006, 09:46:00 PM
[email protected]
Post by: vermonster13 on June 11, 2006, 09:52:00 PM
Post by: Hornseeker on June 11, 2006, 09:58:00 PM
Personally, I think a good number of the hunting shows all over TV and the DVD's sold and such are nearly as bad as this BS. These guys are paying huge $$ to hunt limited ranches or buying monster auction tags...then making a kill and laughing, high fiving, rolling around on the ground grabbing eachother a$$es...its a bunch of crap.
We need to get a little more back to basics and quit watching all these movies and shows....hunting is not couch potato entertainment, its Hunting...and most of us know what it is.
Ernie
Post by: vermonster13 on June 11, 2006, 10:01:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 11, 2006, 10:05:00 PM
Post by: Terry Green on June 11, 2006, 10:05:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 11, 2006, 10:06:00 PM
Post by: BillyBobHowdieVern on June 11, 2006, 10:08:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 11, 2006, 10:13:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 11, 2006, 10:18:00 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/hunting/news/story?id=2474274&campaign=rss&source=ESPNHeadlines
Post by: vermonster13 on June 11, 2006, 10:21:00 PM
"We're honored to have been chosen as one of the first sponsors of the WHA," said Lou Grace, owner of G5 Outdoors. "From a marketing standpoint, we believe the WHA represents a great opportunity for companies to tap into a very lucrative demographic. We're looking forward to working with the WHA."
We can't let this go ignored. They claim this will help hunting, the only helping I see is the wallets of those involved and the cause of the antis.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 11, 2006, 10:29:00 PM
Post by: Mudfeather on June 11, 2006, 10:30:00 PM
It doesn't really surprise me though because of the reasons already mentioned. That is one reason I have always opposed mandated trophy hunting.....NOT the personal decision one chooses to make at the time BUT the LAW that says you can't shoot X because he doesn't have a big enough rack. I think it send the wrong message as to why we hunt.
Post by: Arwin on June 11, 2006, 10:37:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 11, 2006, 10:40:00 PM
Post by: Danny Rowan on June 11, 2006, 11:10:00 PM
Danny
Post by: Roadkill on June 11, 2006, 11:13:00 PM
Best do it now before they develop any momentum
Post by: Jason R. Wesbrock on June 11, 2006, 11:21:00 PM
Post by: Steve Kendrot on June 11, 2006, 11:21:00 PM
I suspect they are keeping it vague enough to generate the kind of discussion seen here, and trigger people's curiosity into watching it...
Anyone have any real info. Pnue dart's sponsorship is a bit of a mystery/concern.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 11, 2006, 11:23:00 PM
Post by: Steve Kendrot on June 11, 2006, 11:26:00 PM
Steve
Post by: kawika b on June 12, 2006, 04:40:00 AM
Post by: John Nail on June 12, 2006, 05:28:00 AM
Hunting prisoners from death row?
Winner has the largest (weighed) gutpile...
Post by: Tom Leemans on June 12, 2006, 06:08:00 AM
Post by: Curtiss Cardinal on June 12, 2006, 06:26:00 AM
The webpage said the competitions would be non-lethal events. I hate the commercialization, the marketing,the bimbos,even the concept. I'm just not sure, given the changing, evolving world we live in, driven by "Madison Avenue" and the "reality TV" junkies that this is something we can stop. I don't think this concept has the legs of B.A.S.S. and F.L.W. and P.W.T. and will probably fail on it's own.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 12, 2006, 08:11:00 AM
http://edit.detnews.gannettonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060607/SPORTS06/606070384/1004/SPORTS
Post by: vermonster13 on June 12, 2006, 08:14:00 AM
http://www.graceeng.com/
Post by: Danny Rowan on June 12, 2006, 09:00:00 AM
From another forum the dart company says they have not agreed to sponser, but who knows.
I sure hope this can be stopped.
I keep hearing people compare this to tournament fishing, wrong. In fishing you do not tranq the fish, you catch it, weigh it and release it. No where near the same thing.
Danny
Post by: vermonster13 on June 12, 2006, 09:08:00 AM
I know money is God to many and this $500,000 purse per event to split up among 8 guys must be really tempting, but somethings just can't have a price tag on them. Our hunting heritage and future are two of those things and one would hope ethics would be another.
Post by: Bowhunter4life on June 12, 2006, 09:41:00 AM
Post by: Ben Tiller on June 12, 2006, 09:58:00 AM
ben
Post by: hunt it on June 12, 2006, 10:00:00 AM
I URGE EVERYONE OF YOU TO DO THE SAME, RIGHT AWAY!!
Post by: vermonster13 on June 12, 2006, 10:08:00 AM
[email protected]
http://www.ag.state.co.us/complaints/comment.html
Post by: Ted A. Young on June 12, 2006, 10:19:00 AM
Post by: Ben Tiller on June 12, 2006, 10:37:00 AM
§ 750.49. Animal; definition; fighting, baiting, or shooting; prohibited conduct; violation as felony; costs; dog trained or used for fighting or offspring of dog trained or used for fighting; prohibited conduct; exceptions; confiscation of dog; award of dog to animal welfare agency; euthanasia; expenses; forfeiture of animals, equipment, devices, and money; disposition of money seized; additional exceptions.
Sec. 49. (1) As used in this section, "animal" means a vertebrate other than a human.
(2) A person shall not knowingly do any of the following:
(a) Own, possess, use, buy, sell, offer to buy or sell, import, or export an animal for fighting or baiting, or as a target to be shot at as a test of skill in marksmanship.
(b) Be a party to or cause the fighting, baiting, or shooting of an animal as described in subdivision (a).
(c) Rent or otherwise obtain the use of a building, shed, room, yard, ground, or premises for fighting, baiting, or shooting an animal as described in subdivision (a).
(d) Permit the use of a building, shed, room, yard, ground, or premises belonging to him or her or under his or her control for any of the purposes described in this section.
(e) Organize, promote, or collect money for the fighting, baiting, or shooting of an animal as described in subdivisions (a) to (d).
(f) Be present at a building, shed, room, yard, ground, or premises where preparations are being made for an exhibition described in subdivisions (a) to (d), or be present at the exhibition, knowing that an exhibition is taking place or about to take place.
(g) Breed, buy, sell, offer to buy or sell, exchange, import, or export an animal the person knows has been trained or used for fighting as described in subdivisions (a) to (d), or breed, buy, sell, offer to buy or sell, exchange, import, or export the offspring of an animal the person knows has been trained or used for fighting as described in subdivisions (a) to (d). This subdivision does not prohibit owning, breeding, buying, selling, offering to buy or sell, exchanging, importing, or exporting an animal for agricultural or agricultural exposition purposes.
(h) Own, possess, use, buy, sell, offer to buy or sell, transport, or deliver any device or equipment intended for use in the fighting, baiting, or shooting of an animal as described in subdivisions (a) to (d).
(3) A person who violates subsection (2)(a) to (e) is guilty of a felony punishable by 1 or more of the following:
(a) Imprisonment for not more than 4 years.
(b) A fine of not less than $5,000.00 or more than $50,000.00.
(c) Not less than 500 or more than 1,000 hours of community service.
(4) A person who violates subsection (2)(f) to (h) is guilty of a felony punishable by 1 or more of the following:
(a) Imprisonment for not more than 4 years.
(b) A fine of not less than $1,000.00 or more than $5,000.00.
(c) Not less than 250 or more than 500 hours of community service.. . .
It is much longer, so I didn't post the whole thing. This is illegal. Period.
ben
Post by: vermonster13 on June 12, 2006, 10:57:00 AM
Post by: Ben Tiller on June 12, 2006, 10:57:00 AM
C.R.S. 33-1-102
(24) "Harass" means to unlawfully endanger, worry, impede, annoy, pursue, disturb, molest, rally, concentrate, harry, chase, drive, herd, or torment wildlife.
CRS 33-6-128.(1) Unless permitted by the division, it is unlawful for any person to . . .harass any wildlife. Any person who violates this subsection (1) is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by a fine of one hundred dollars and an assessment of ten license suspension points.
33-6-130. Explosives, toxicants, and poisons not to be used
(1) Unless permitted by law or by the division, it is unlawful for any person to use toxicants, poisons, drugs, dynamite, explosives, or any stupefying substances for the purpose of hunting, taking, or harassing any wildlife. Any person who violates this subsection (1) is guilty of a misdemeanor and, upon conviction thereof, shall be punished by a fine of two hundred dollars and an assessment of twenty license suspension points.
Post by: Ben Tiller on June 12, 2006, 10:59:00 AM
ben
Post by: vermonster13 on June 12, 2006, 11:02:00 AM
Post by: Jimbob on June 12, 2006, 11:07:00 AM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 12, 2006, 11:15:00 AM
http://www.carbonexpressarrows.com/
Post by: Jimbob on June 12, 2006, 11:24:00 AM
Post by: Ben Tiller on June 12, 2006, 11:33:00 AM
35-42-109. Protection of animals mistreated, neglected, or abandoned
(1) No animal shall be mistreated or neglected to such degree or abandoned in any circumstance so that the animal's life or health is endangered.
(2) (a) . . .
(b) Pursuant to court order, the commissioner may take charge of, provide for, or remove from the area or building where found any livestock found to be mistreated or neglected to such degree or abandoned in any circumstance so that the animal's life or health is endangered. The commissioner shall petition any court of competent jurisdiction for a prompt hearing to determine whether the owner, if known, is able to adequately provide for the animal and is a fit person to own the animal.
(8) Any officer or agent of the bureau may lawfully interfere to prevent the perpetration of an act of mistreatment, neglect, abandonment, or cruelty, pursuant to part 2 of article 9 of title 18, C.R.S., which act occurs in his presence.
The following is especially important. . .
35-42-104. Scope of article
(2) In case of any conflict between this article or regulations adopted pursuant to this article or section 35-43-126 and the wildlife statutes of the state, said wildlife statutes shall control.
Post by: Ben Tiller on June 12, 2006, 11:37:00 AM
ben
Post by: vermonster13 on June 12, 2006, 11:38:00 AM
Post by: tamure on June 12, 2006, 12:03:00 PM
If the fatality rate of tranq'ing deer is really that high, then maybe the animal cruelty laws in Michigan would prevent this, even though the deer are considered livestock.
If any of you guys have access to scientific data or journals documenting high death rates with use of tranqs, that I think could be the most persuasive in getting the state itself to shut this thing down.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 12, 2006, 12:15:00 PM
Post by: saxton1979 on June 12, 2006, 12:37:00 PM
Post by: BigRonHuntAlot on June 12, 2006, 01:07:00 PM
Post by: insttech1 on June 12, 2006, 01:22:00 PM
I think the manufacturers that pull their sponsorship deserve as many emails of respect and support for their products as the ones that are sponsoring this fiasco deserve all the nasty-grams that we can possibly send!!!!
So if someone pulls their sponsorship of this organized stupidity, please send them an email of congratulations for their TRUE support of hunting and the associated community members.
Take Care,
Marc
Post by: John Scifres on June 12, 2006, 01:23:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 12, 2006, 01:42:00 PM
From: David Farbman, Commissioner and CEO
Date:June 12, 2006
Re:World Hunting Association
Dear fellow hunters:
I want to personally welcome you to the WHA, a new professional competitive world tour designed by
hunters, for hunters. I have been an avid hunter for more than 20 years and have hunted with nearly
every weapon. Hunting is my passion, and I am now dedicating my life to the sport. In addition, our
team and supporters are largely comprised of experienced and passionate hunters.
The World Hunting Association intends to expand the next generation of hunters and hunting fans by
showcasing the true essence of hunting and by offering exciting and educational content to provide
more people facts about hunting. We are also creating a foundation which will donate to charitable
and non-profit organizations that help enhance hunting, such as venison donation charities, and that
offer hunting trips to those who are critically ill or less privileged.
Many people are very interested in finding out more details on the WHA and how we will achieve our
goals. Over the coming months, we will unveil:
•Details about the competitions and tournament format.
•The darting process and procedures, including the recovery, release and treatment process.
•Exciting features on the full-scale, interactive worldhunt.com website.
•The positive impact the WHA will have on conservation, including aging of animals, vaccinations
against widespread disease found in deer herds, and other valuable scientific and wildlife impacts.
•Valuable tips relating to deer management and crop management.
•The culling process that we use to thin the herd in a responsible and educated manner (taking place
outside of the tournament format).
•The hunting-related charitable organizations that will be the recipients of WHA donations.
Let’s face it: our sport could use a “shot in the arm.” The number of licensed hunters has been
declining for years and many people view hunters and hunting in an inaccurate and unflattering way.
It’s time to improve that image and show the world the complexity, skill, and strategy that is the core
of hunting.
While additional details of the WHA will be disclosed in the coming months, I want you to understand
some of the core elements of the competitions:
•Although, for purposes of broadening viewership, the competition will be based on “non-fatal” hunting,
we completely support harvest hunting.
•The WHA competition will focus on many of the same skills required in harvest hunting, including
scents, positioning, scent elimination, stand strategies, gauging and playing the wind, and many
other practices.
•The scoring system will reward competitors for their hunting skill. While the animals will not die, the
hunt itself will be challenging and intense.
•To preserve ecology, the animals will be given certain vaccinations and will have blood work
completed immediately by a licensed veterinarian; animals will be marked and not shot twice in
a competition.
Now is the time for all hunters to stand together, shoulder to shoulder. While new ideas and change
can sometimes be uncomfortable, this is a great opportunity for hunters to elevate the sport, clear up
misconceptions, and expand the next generation of hunters.
Let us unite as hunters and work together to grow the sport. I welcome your feedback and suggestions
as we are building the tour. Please send feedback to [email protected]. When we launch
the first event in the fall, it will be our tour, designed especially for hunters like us.
We should all be proud.
Sincerely,
David Farbman
Commissioner and CEO, WHA
Post by: Glenn29 on June 12, 2006, 01:57:00 PM
Would like to know who these people will be!
"Let’s face it: our sport could use a “shot in the arm.” The number of licensed hunters has been
declining for years and many people view hunters and hunting in an inaccurate and unflattering way.
It’s time to improve that image and show the world the complexity, skill, and strategy that is the core
of hunting."
Makes me sick to my stomach to have some clown out there like this trying to promote some I love and care for so much and yet there is nothing I can really do to stop him.
:help:
Post by: vermonster13 on June 12, 2006, 02:07:00 PM
Post by: Blue Moose on June 12, 2006, 02:11:00 PM
Post by: Terry Green on June 12, 2006, 02:11:00 PM
Post by: Glenn29 on June 12, 2006, 02:18:00 PM
What I mean is I can't legally go find this guy and show him what hunting is about.... :saywhat:
Post by: vermonster13 on June 12, 2006, 02:21:00 PM
Post by: kawika b on June 12, 2006, 02:26:00 PM
Post by: Ray Hammond on June 12, 2006, 02:38:00 PM
If you know folks at these places, like I do at Mossy Oak, you need to alert them to what is happening and proactively advise them why this is a bad idea and why it shouldn't happen BEFORE they agree to sponsor. Once they commit, a company that large is like a battleship and will be difficult to change course, believe me.
Post by: 42WLA on June 12, 2006, 03:13:00 PM
http://www.lstarrow.com/index.htm
Post by: vermonster13 on June 12, 2006, 03:14:00 PM
Post by: John Scifres on June 12, 2006, 04:22:00 PM
David, good job. I sent G5 an email earlier based on your encouragement. If you want to get personal with Mr. Farbman, there seems to be some interesting stuff available about his dealing with the Old Wayne County Building lease. You might check the Wayne County Auditor's webpage. I didn't spend a whole bunch of time with it so I don't know the full skinny.
Thanks.
Post by: MI_Bowhunter on June 12, 2006, 04:23:00 PM
Its all about the $$$$$.
I'm ashamed that my state is the root of this. I'll definitly do my part to let the sponsors know how I feel.
Post by: Badger Matt on June 12, 2006, 04:23:00 PM
"Dear Matt, Thank you for your e-mail. We at G5 outdoors are very interested in your concerns. As of today we have withdrawn our support and sponsorship of the WHA. Our only intent was to grow archery. This is clearly not happening. Please explain to your friends and fellow hunters that G5 in no way intended to offend anyone and that we have listened to your voice. Thanks again for your correspondence. Sincerely, Peter Crawford G5 Outdoors, LLC [email protected]"
Good job with the e-mails guys.
Post by: John Scifres on June 12, 2006, 04:29:00 PM
It was our intention to strengthen bow hunting’s foundation by broadening the appeal of archery to the public; however, based on communications, via email and phone, we have received from fellow bow hunters, we have come to the conclusion that the WHA is not the vehicle to achieve this end.
G5 would like to thank all those who have shared their thoughts, comments and concerns with us.
"
Post by: vermonster13 on June 12, 2006, 04:37:00 PM
Post by: Badger Matt on June 12, 2006, 04:44:00 PM
Post by: Bowhunter4life on June 12, 2006, 05:03:00 PM
http://g5outdoors.com/main/RecentHeadlines.aspx
Thank goodness! I like their Montec head and use it, but let them know I wouldn't have been a customer of theirs given the continued support of the WHA...
Good on them for coming to their senses!
Post by: Ben Tiller on June 12, 2006, 05:17:00 PM
I am glad to see that one man's insanity can't overcome a thousand men's reason. Thank you guys, and good work. The fight is not over, of course, until we get to watch a three minute clip on the WHA website of the bozo sitting in his tree-stand apologizing for his lapse in. . . well, just about everything. It's funny, because I remember seeing a 20/20 special about "paintball" safaris in Africa about 7 years ago that had the ARAs in a tizzy... can you imagine if this made it mainstream?!
ben
Post by: Blue Moose on June 12, 2006, 05:44:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 12, 2006, 05:55:00 PM
Post by: Don Thomas on June 12, 2006, 06:01:00 PM
Post by: Steve Kendrot on June 12, 2006, 06:17:00 PM
Oh well, guess I won't quit my day job.
:smileystooges: :knothead: :bigsmyl:
Post by: Bard1 on June 12, 2006, 06:47:00 PM
Post by: 9 Mile Archer on June 12, 2006, 06:57:00 PM
Thank you for your e-mail. We at G5 outdoors are very interested in your
concerns. As of today we have withdrawn our support and sponsorship of the
WHA. Our only intent was to grow archery. This is clearly not happening.
Please explain to your friends and fellow hunters that G5 in no way intended
to offend anyone and that we have listened to your voice. Thanks again for
your correspondence.
Sincerely,
Peter Crawford
G5 Outdoors, LLC
[email protected]
-----Original Message-----
If you become a sponsor of the WHA I will cease to buy your products.
Thanks,
Andrew Parker
Yeah!!!!! I like the Montec
Post by: gregg dudley on June 12, 2006, 06:59:00 PM
Post by: 1/4 away on June 12, 2006, 07:22:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 12, 2006, 07:33:00 PM
Post by: Rob DiStefano on June 12, 2006, 07:35:00 PM
Trad Gang has prepared a form email letter of dissent to Worldhunt, Extreme Scents and Pneu-Dart. Click on the following link to fill out and quickly send your opinion to those people. Thanx everyone!
STOP WORLDHUNT (http://tradgang.com/worldhunt/)
Please feel free to pass the link around!
Post by: sleepyhollow on June 12, 2006, 08:16:00 PM
Post by: Arwin on June 12, 2006, 08:17:00 PM
Post by: kcdaniels on June 12, 2006, 08:21:00 PM
Dan
Post by: Arwin on June 12, 2006, 08:25:00 PM
Post by: 9 Mile Archer on June 12, 2006, 08:34:00 PM
Post by: Jumper on June 12, 2006, 08:52:00 PM
Post by: bbassi on June 12, 2006, 08:56:00 PM
Post by: knife river on June 12, 2006, 08:57:00 PM
Thank you for your E-Mail. We appreciate feedback from our customers and value their opinions.
Pneu-Dart has not entered into any formal agreements with the WHA nor do we intend to at this time. As with any customer, we hope the WHA will do everything in its power to put the animals best interest first.
Sincerely,
Donna
[email protected]
I can't tell if they're waffling or don't intend to sign on with WHA. Either way, they need to hear from more of us.
Post by: knife river on June 12, 2006, 08:58:00 PM
Post by: Rob DiStefano on June 12, 2006, 08:59:00 PM
Post by: Huntrdfk on June 12, 2006, 09:01:00 PM
David
Post by: bjk on June 12, 2006, 09:03:00 PM
Thx Pal, makes it real easy...although it was nice to be able to add some of my own language.
Brian
Post by: bjk on June 12, 2006, 09:04:00 PM
Post by: BigRonHuntAlot on June 12, 2006, 09:09:00 PM
Post by: Jumper on June 12, 2006, 09:15:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 12, 2006, 09:24:00 PM
Post by: bbassi on June 12, 2006, 09:28:00 PM
Post by: Glenn29 on June 12, 2006, 09:30:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 12, 2006, 09:40:00 PM
If you go to espn.com and then go to the outdoors section at the bottom of the page they have a poll that asks basically whether or not you support the WHA... GO VOTE NO!!!
http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/index
Post by: huntwisely on June 12, 2006, 10:07:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 12, 2006, 10:43:00 PM
Post by: paleFace on June 12, 2006, 10:58:00 PM
cheers
Rob
fyi. i just received some new carbon express arrows today as was about to send them right back until i saw that they had pulled the plug on this hair brained idea and told the jerk to keep his sponsorship. i think i'll keep them now.
Post by: Texasrecurve on June 12, 2006, 11:12:00 PM
TR
Post by: vermonster13 on June 12, 2006, 11:28:00 PM
Post by: painthorse on June 12, 2006, 11:45:00 PM
Thanks for the heads up.
Scott
Post by: Bard1 on June 12, 2006, 11:46:00 PM
69.8% no
We need more NO votes gang!
Post by: el cazador on June 12, 2006, 11:48:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 12, 2006, 11:49:00 PM
It seems that if you clear the cookies from your browser, you can vote again and again I was just told. The WHA vote jumped up over 10% in 5 minutes, how do you think that might have happened?
I am not saying to cheat on this poll, just makes one wonder
Post by: vermonster13 on June 12, 2006, 11:55:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 13, 2006, 12:03:00 AM
Post by: juneaulongbow on June 13, 2006, 12:22:00 AM
Post by: liteandsirens on June 13, 2006, 12:40:00 AM
Post by: Arrow4Christ on June 13, 2006, 01:42:00 AM
Post by: UKarcher on June 13, 2006, 01:54:00 AM
Graham
Post by: Madpigslayer on June 13, 2006, 01:55:00 AM
You Americans have it all figured out. (that is sarcasm, I deal with enough sarcasm towards canada to give some back from time to time...this would NEVER happen in canada....BTW)
I voted NO. I totally figured this was a joke when I saw it yesterday. If you cant get this stopped, it will COMPLETLY AND TOTALLY CHANGE HUNTING FOREVER. whatever I can do to help, let me know...I am in.
I still think this must be some sick joke...let me know when it is over and laugh at me please.
Post by: Danny Rowan on June 13, 2006, 03:03:00 AM
Danny
Post by: T. Downing on June 13, 2006, 03:54:00 AM
Post by: bbassi on June 13, 2006, 06:06:00 AM
Second, even though we have been lucky with G5 and possibly Extreamescents, I'm sure this jackass is working on other sponsors. Would it be prudent to form a letter of non-support and release it as a press release or something within the hunting industry? I'm sure there has to be some type of trade group that organizes all the hunting product manufactures. It might help to get the word out to other potential "sponsors".
Post by: Tom Leemans on June 13, 2006, 06:13:00 AM
Post by: Ray Hammond on June 13, 2006, 07:18:00 AM
I suggest you get with Terry and Rob and make this ESPN poll a new thread....get it kept at the top...and get everyone on this site to vote NO!!!! This guy is going to win the publicity war if we don't get it done.
Post by: joel smith on June 13, 2006, 07:28:00 AM
Anybody ever figure out what's up with the vote ?
Post by: joel smith on June 13, 2006, 07:29:00 AM
Post by: huntwisely on June 13, 2006, 07:38:00 AM
Where are these votes coming from - PETA ???
Post by: joel smith on June 13, 2006, 07:40:00 AM
Their mailing address is: 860 E 4500 South, suite 310, Salt Lake city, UT 84107. But this thing is probably moving too fast for snail mail (on second thought, mail 'em after you call or e-mail, volume counts).
Their phone number is 801-261-2380, fax is 801-261-2389, toll-free 866-266-2776. Remember that's in Salt Lake, nobody awake there yet.
e-mail: [email protected]
Post by: joel smith on June 13, 2006, 07:46:00 AM
Post by: joel smith on June 13, 2006, 07:52:00 AM
GO VOTE !!!
Post by: SteveMcD on June 13, 2006, 07:54:00 AM
Post by: Jason Lester on June 13, 2006, 08:01:00 AM
Non-lethal hunting is realy hunting the way I do it. (no shot) LOL.
I can't believe people are buying into this.
Post by: joel smith on June 13, 2006, 08:07:00 AM
Post by: SteveMcD on June 13, 2006, 08:08:00 AM
Post by: alpo on June 13, 2006, 08:11:00 AM
Post by: joel smith on June 13, 2006, 08:20:00 AM
Post by: painthorse on June 13, 2006, 08:21:00 AM
Espn does not care what you or I think.Look at what they have done to Bassmaster.If they are advertising this then time slots have been bought and like they say "game on".
The way to beat this is take the money away.Beat the sponsors down with calls and letters (emails) and if that does'nt work then dump their junk.
Dad always said that hunting shows would be the end of hunting and he may have been right.
Scott
Post by: Arrow4Christ on June 13, 2006, 08:25:00 AM
if it was lethal....sad.
Post by: freeman on June 13, 2006, 08:27:00 AM
Post by: joel smith on June 13, 2006, 08:30:00 AM
Post by: Firstarrow on June 13, 2006, 08:33:00 AM
Great job guys working this and getting the bad spot off of the name of hunting and bowhunting!!!!!!!
Post by: BigHink66 on June 13, 2006, 08:35:00 AM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 13, 2006, 08:39:00 AM
THE OTHERSIDE IS CHEATING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EVERYONE LET ESPN KNOW HOW INVALID THEIR POLL IS AND REQUEST THEY CHECK THE IP ADDRESSES ON THE VOTES THEY RECEIVE!!!!!!!! THAT WILL SHOW THEM THE BALLOT STUFFING AND HOPEFULL GET THAT FARCE POLL PULLED!!!!!!
http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/g...?page=mailform
Post by: Rob DiStefano on June 13, 2006, 08:40:00 AM
STOP WORLDHUNT NOW! (http://tradgang.com/worldhunt/)
Guys 'n' gals, we got to beat WHA, please send them and their sponsors a vote of STOP THIS INSANITY NOW! - Thank you.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 13, 2006, 08:44:00 AM
http://www.polarisindustries.com/en-us/OurCompany/ContactUs/EmailConsumerService.htm
Post by: joel smith on June 13, 2006, 08:44:00 AM
Post by: John Scifres on June 13, 2006, 08:47:00 AM
Quote
You are currently running a poll that purports to judge the opinions of hunters regarding the World Hunting Association, a shameful example of commercialization of our hunting heritage. This poll is being cheated by the very few supporters of WHA. Please pull it and do not use the results for any purpose other than to show how truly unethical the supporters of competitive hunting are.
Sincerely,
John Scifres
Post by: vermonster13 on June 13, 2006, 08:51:00 AM
" This is one of the top three states in the country for the number of hunting licenses sold, so it's only right they chose Michigan. And I'm sure this means we'll see stops in Texas and Pennsylvania too," said Marc Somers, president of the local chapter of Safari Club International. "
Post by: Bob Walker on June 13, 2006, 08:52:00 AM
Post by: joel smith on June 13, 2006, 08:52:00 AM
Post by: MI_Bowhunter on June 13, 2006, 08:57:00 AM
You can also contact the Michigan Governers office at:
Governor Jennifer M. Granholm
P.O. Box 30013
Lansing, Michigan 48909
PHONE: (517) 373-3400
PHONE: (517) 335-7858 - Constituent Services
FAX:(517) 335-6863
Sorry, I could not find an email address.
Post by: joel smith on June 13, 2006, 09:11:00 AM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 13, 2006, 09:13:00 AM
Send them a note that you have seen this and that there poll has become rigged!
Post by: SteveMcD on June 13, 2006, 09:17:00 AM
Post by: John Scifres on June 13, 2006, 09:52:00 AM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 13, 2006, 10:01:00 AM
Post by: Ben Tiller on June 13, 2006, 10:05:00 AM
It has come to my attention that ESPN is considering sponsoring the new WHA. Please understand that true sportsman everywhere are appalled at the thought of a "professional" "hunting" league. Such a notion defies the principles, ethics and heritage of a sport that should not be diminished by such exploitation.
The poll you are running is apparently rigged. It seems that each time a vote is entered against the WHA, dozens show up in support. I have traversed the internet over the past few days, and have not found a single hunting organization in support of this tragic attempt to rape our sport. Please remove the poll immediately.
I would also like to mention that there are statutes in each of the states WHA is considering running its operation which make this activity completely illegal (a felony in MI!). I will be in contact with the local District's Attorney's offices to ensure that the proper evidence is gathered to prosecute these unethical actors. Please do not allow your organization to become their accomplice.
Sincerely
Benjamin C. Tiller
Post by: Rick McGowan on June 13, 2006, 10:08:00 AM
CALL the sponsors and let them know that NONE of your money will be going to them and let them know that you will be calling all of their dealers to let them know you will not be buying their products if they want to support this stuff. Emails do not have anywhere near the impact of phone calls.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 13, 2006, 10:13:00 AM
Post by: DeanD on June 13, 2006, 10:19:00 AM
I want to thank each of you for finding and disseminating these important facts and contact sites.
A job well done but not over yet.
Again, kudos.
Dean
Post by: Ray Hammond on June 13, 2006, 10:19:00 AM
The lady was very attentive, took down all the information, and promised that she would take it to the Governor's staff immediately, and she agreed with me that it was a truly BAD IDEA.
I urge others of you to call the Governor as well
at the number MI BOWHUNTER gave above...great idea..
Governor Jennifer M. Granholm
P.O. Box 30013
Lansing, Michigan 48909
PHONE: (517) 335-7858 - Constituent Services
I also called Polaris Industries. You should too.
Post by: tamure on June 13, 2006, 10:32:00 AM
I work in government and here anyway things only operate if they are on paper. It is a much smaller state than Michigan, and we get so many random calls everyday that I'd bet 95% of them never make it past the receptionist.
There's no guaranteeing that any one of those departments have jurisdiction over this deal, but if they get a slew of letters they may forward them on to whatever agency does (if any).
If this thing really is supposed to happen this fall, then they have presumably got all their legal ducks in a row already. But it wouldn't hurt to make sure the AG or Dept. of Ag or whoever in Michigan has taken a close look at this.
Post by: Ray Hammond on June 13, 2006, 10:32:00 AM
Post by: Ray Hammond on June 13, 2006, 10:32:00 AM
Post by: Ray Hammond on June 13, 2006, 10:32:00 AM
He agreed to check into this and if on review it seemed as big a problem as I indicated on the phone he will bring his very active outdoor network to bear on the issue later today as soon as he gets back to his office.
I think he can bring a lot of letters and emails to the table -if you guys know others who have similar magazines, media like radio shows, etc that can bring down lots of air time on our side of this, and get votes, calls, and emails done pronto- you need to call in favors on this one.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 13, 2006, 10:45:00 AM
Post by: DeanD on June 13, 2006, 10:56:00 AM
However, a button with a link to a letter would be good too!
Dean
Post by: Glenn29 on June 13, 2006, 10:56:00 AM
Hopefully Steve will see the truth and use his contacts to help change things.
Post by: Ray Hammond on June 13, 2006, 11:02:00 AM
I think a postal letter should go..but I don't have time to do it today.
I wonder if it wouldnt be better coming from someone like Terry..representing 9K of us...
I also sent a link to this thread to Stan Rauch, President of the North American Bowhunting Council, of which I am a member, asking he and the other members of the council to make as much noise as they can on this issue.
Post by: John Scifres on June 13, 2006, 11:03:00 AM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 13, 2006, 11:08:00 AM
Post by: Ray Hammond on June 13, 2006, 11:12:00 AM
G5 is a family-owned and -operated company. President and co-owner Louis Grace, his sons and co-owners Matt and Nate Grace are passionate about archery and seek to preserve this right for generations to come. This passion derives from the very heritage and tradition of this sport. Our motto “Designed to Hunt” explains our mission and determination toward the hunt. Hunting to us means food on the table and, if we get lucky, a mount on the wall.
WHA and its founder Dave Farbman seek to promote the same hunting tradition in hopes of not only revitalizing the existing hunting community, but also expanding on this base to secure our hunting heritage. Mr. Farbman’s enthusiasm for hunting comes from his early introduction as a teenager, when he learned about the tradition and ethics that make hunting great. His bold plan intends to grow the enthusiasm for hunting by creating a new vehicle to educate, promote and entertain both the avid hunter and those who do not participate but have the interest and values to one day join us on a hunt.
G5 Outdoors has supported and will continue to support organizations that promote archery and its traditions of artistry, conservationism, community and family. To this end, G5 has supported many national organizations such as the National Archery Schools Program (NASP), Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation, NWTF, QDMA, ATA and thousands of local archery retailers, clubs, associations and community hunting organizations, which have sought to promote our way of life.
As passionate hunters, every one of us needs to do our part in securing the future of hunting. We at G5 feel there are many positive actions being taken by various groups in the hunting community to educate and promote hunting, yet more needs to be done to further our cause. If not and if we stay static, our hunting tradition will slip away.
We appreciate and value all your questions, comments and concerns about the WHA. We hope that you will continue this dialogue with us so that we may continue as a community to seek the best methods to promote hunting not only within the archery community, but also to those who do not currently share our passion.
Regards,
The G5 Outdoors Team
the above was posted on another site as G5's official response..are we SURE they are out of this thing?????
This could have been prior to our calls and emails...I just don't know as it isnt dated and I could find NOTHING of this on their site at all.
Just a heads up IN CASE they changed their minds.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 13, 2006, 11:17:00 AM
Post by: BillyBobHowdieVern on June 13, 2006, 11:23:00 AM
john
Post by: vermonster13 on June 13, 2006, 11:50:00 AM
The fellow in charge sells real estate. He lost out on the hunting lease business big time. What if this league happens and makes this popular? He builds high fence places all over and condos adjacent to them. Bored with golf? be a real man and hunt this way! All thrill no blood spill! See where this is leading? He doesn't care about hunting in the least, its all $$$$$
Makes "hunting" into a past-time for the wealthy only. Think about it he has promised Michigan 5000 jobs, how does a 8 man "hunting" league support that many jobs, it doesn't. Now real estate development, thats a different story.
Does this scenario seem plausible and frightnening to anyone else? These thoughts keep me pushing to prevent this more than anything else.
Post by: JasonV on June 13, 2006, 11:51:00 AM
He and a few of his buddies have a side buisness selling hunting equipment and ATVs, etc - he has already contacted his Polaris rep and told him they've placed their last order with polaris until they come to their senses and withdraw support.
These guys run a very small-time buisness, and I'm sure this will hurt them alot more than it would Polaris, but this is the kind of action that will eventually make the sponsors come to their senses.
If your local shop carries Polaris, G5, etc talk to them about this - if it comes down to it, let them know that if they carry the products that sponsor WHA, then you'll be forced to take your buisness elsewhere.
We also need to contact Cabelas, BassPro, ThreeRivers, etc and let them know how we feel....
Post by: Tom Mussatto on June 13, 2006, 11:54:00 AM
A few years ago PSE tried something along the same lines they called Star Wars. I don't know if it failed because of lack of support or because there was enough protests that they pulled the plug. Hopefully, WHA will also fail.
I agree with the many who have posted here that it is about money and the only way to successfully oppose this is to hit those who are profiting from it. Stop making this stuff profitable and it will go away. Whether it be magazines, videos, hunting gear, guides and outfitters, etc. take this into consideration with every dollar you spend. The good stuff will float to the top, the bad will not be able to stay in business.
Post by: BigHink66 on June 13, 2006, 11:55:00 AM
Hello Fred,
Thank you for your e-mail. We at G5 outdoors are very interested in your concerns. As of 4:00 p.m. on June 12, 2006 we have withdrawn our support and sponsorship of the WHA. Our only intent was to grow archery. This is clearly not happening. Please explain to your friends and fellow hunters that G5 in no way intended to offend anyone and that we have listened to your voice. Thanks again for your correspondence.
Sincerely,
Peter Crawford
National Sales Manager
G5 Outdoors
Post by: JasonV on June 13, 2006, 11:56:00 AM
Any ideas how we could go about this most effectively????
Post by: vermonster13 on June 13, 2006, 12:00:00 PM
Post by: Bill Carlsen on June 13, 2006, 12:07:00 PM
Gentlemen: I have been a long time customer of Cabela's and have been an outdoorsman for 54 years. On some recent Archery websites that I frequent there has been reference made to a new hunting program called Worldhunt (website is www.Worldhunt.com). (http://www.Worldhunt.com).) I am joining many of the members of these websites to voice my displeasure and concerns about Worldhunt and I can promise you this....I will no longer purchase any more of my hunting or outdoor needs from Cabela's if you agree to sell any products that are sponsoring Worldhunt or if Cabela's accepts products for resale from any distributor of these products. I am also calling upon Cabela's to make a public disclaimer regarding Worldhunt via TV programs you currently sponsor in part or in whole and to also make a similar disclaimer in the magazines where you carry adds and to make such a statement in your own literature and catalogs in a prominent and obvious section of that material.
Last evening I had to undergo emergency eye surgery so I am not up to getting too wordy about my reasons for asking you to do as I suggest. However, I am sure you have not heard the end of this from other sources including the Pope and Young Club and Boone and Crockett. Please do me the pleasure of responding to this email especially as to the position that you will take on this bastardization of my hunting heritage. Please do not simply respond with a statement that you appreciate my communication. I want to know where you stand on this organization and what your plans are for dealing with it. When you see what Worldhunt is up to I believe you will understand...if you don't then you aren't the kind of people I will continue to do business with in the future despite your excellent service in the past and I will encourage my friends and acquaintances to do the same.
Sincerely,
William S. Carlsen
------ End of Forwarded Message
Post by: vermonster13 on June 13, 2006, 12:13:00 PM
Here is an honest poll you can respond to.
http://www.weloveoutdoors.com/
Post by: vermonster13 on June 13, 2006, 12:18:00 PM
http://mikehanback.blogs.com/bigbuckzone/2006/06/dart_a_buck_on_.html
Post by: insttech1 on June 13, 2006, 12:27:00 PM
I wanted you to be aware that your website has apparently been hacked. I am referring to the hunting poll for the so-called "World Hunting Organization's" tranquilizer hunting scheme. Please remove the poll or have it monitored...for every "no vote", someone has written an automated script on a server to automatically submit multiple "yes" votes, therefore tipping the balance of the poll. This scheme of so-called "hunting" has produced such an uproar in the true hunting community that tons of sponsors are now facing professional boycotts from numerous organizations and individuals. Your prompt attention to this matter is truly appreciated.
Thanks for your time!
Sincerely,
Marc
Post by: vermonster13 on June 13, 2006, 12:31:00 PM
Post by: LoneWolf on June 13, 2006, 12:38:00 PM
Post by: BigRonHuntAlot on June 13, 2006, 12:40:00 PM
Post by: insttech1 on June 13, 2006, 12:43:00 PM
I urge everyone to email ESPN and ask them to reset that poll to the beginning!!!
I'll try and pull up a link for ya...
M
Post by: insttech1 on June 13, 2006, 12:45:00 PM
at the very very bottom is a column called "report a bug", and you can type your concerns in there and send them straight to their web guys!!
Post by: Bill Carlsen on June 13, 2006, 12:47:00 PM
I have contacted my state FG dept and got an email back from G5indicating that they are no longer sponsoring Worldhunt. I replid to G5 thanking them and indicated that they were back in good standing with bowhunters. Let's keep those letters going out. If you type one in your email you can copy and paste it to any email address we need it to go. The more the better.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 13, 2006, 12:51:00 PM
This is the operation that will be holding the first event in October
Lost Arrow Resort on the Water
1749 Bomanville Road
Gladwin, MI 48624
Mailing Address:
P.O. Box 248
West Branch, MI 48661
Phone Numbers:
Local: (989) 345-7774
Toll Free: (866) 51-Relax
Fax: (989) 345-3743
General Manager: Denise Sterling-Likavec
Post by: insttech1 on June 13, 2006, 01:05:00 PM
Please follow up with any emails that you would like to!!!!
http://michigan.gov/mda/0,1607,7-125-1572-85723--,00.html
Dear Members of the MDA:
A new "hunting" organization has recently proposed a nationally-sponsored method of tranquilizing deer and reviving them repeatedly on a private deer farm in Gladwin, MI, as part of an organized, points-oriented trophy hunt.
Their stated aim is to tranquilize deer multiple times, and have them revived again and again for sporting purposes. The tranquilizers would be attached to arrows and/or fired from firearms. There are large sums of money (stated to be in excess of $500,000) to be awarded as prizes to the most successful "hunter".
There are some legal concerns to this question, and those of us that support true hunting in this state are A.--concerned that the organizers are trying to represent all hunters in this endeavor; and B.--that there are legal ramifications to their harassment of livestock. (which deer are considered to be within a high-fenced area).
There are many avid sportsmen and women who would like to know of the MDA's stand on this proposed event.
The website sponsoring this event can be reviewed at:
www.worldhunt.com (http://www.worldhunt.com)
Thank you so much for your looking into this matter.
Thanks for your time, as it is sincerely appreciated.
Sincerely,
Marc
Post by: Jake H on June 13, 2006, 01:54:00 PM
Post by: Drifter on June 13, 2006, 01:59:00 PM
Post by: Pinecone on June 13, 2006, 02:07:00 PM
Claudia
Post by: vermonster13 on June 13, 2006, 02:10:00 PM
Post by: BTH on June 13, 2006, 02:12:00 PM
Post by: Glenn29 on June 13, 2006, 02:27:00 PM
If one group gets hurt we are all going to get hurt by this. Just remember our last name is "HUNTER".
Keep it going fellas :thumbsup:
Post by: BTH on June 13, 2006, 02:44:00 PM
Funny, I haven't heard a thing about this on the news out here in Kalifornia. Wouldn't have known about it if I hadn't been reading this site last night.
Post by: Ray Hammond on June 13, 2006, 03:04:00 PM
I read the site thoroughly and I believe they will NOT allow the same deer to be shot multiple times...not a big deal, but let's stick to the facts as they are and not try to change or make it look any worse than it really is to reach our goals, OK?
Post by: vermonster13 on June 13, 2006, 03:06:00 PM
[email protected]
Here is the one for the American Veterinary Medical Foundation
[email protected]
This one is for the MIchigan Veterinary Medical Association Executive director Karlene Belyea
[email protected]
Post by: Slim Buttes on June 13, 2006, 03:10:00 PM
I'm sure I will be blasted for my thoughts, but I think some are being a bit hypocritical. If you do not support this worldhunt idea look at their sponsor list and let them know that you will know longer "sponsor" them. Let the market decide. Taking a poll on espn or anywhere else won't change things. You vote everyday when you purchase products and support a business.
Just because we don't want to take part in what worldhunt has to offer does not mean others won't, and if it flurishes it will be just one more of a long list of activities that others participate in that I don't.
Finally, I do not support what worldhunt is pushing.
Post by: Bill Carlsen on June 13, 2006, 03:17:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 13, 2006, 03:17:00 PM
Post by: Ray Hammond on June 13, 2006, 03:22:00 PM
Saying that hunting is changing is one thing- but hunting for MONEY, PRIZES, CHICKS- and doing it inside an enclosure? I am against high fence hunting even if its non lethal. I don't think too many people are AGAINST money making- but let's get real: this guy is trying to make hunting a spectator sport like wrestling.
Do we not have the right to say "enough is enough?" I am against crossbows in archery season...should I stop worrying about that also because the market place will take care of it?
How about child pornography on the net? Should we stop letting the police run sting operations to catch these wackos- I don't think the market place can fix this, do you? I mean, sometimes you HAVE to take a stand because what you fight against will do irreparable harm to something you care about and no matter what the marketplace does AFTER the harm is done, it will take forever to regain the sympathies of the public. I for one don't want to have to work that hard to get BACK to where we are NOW.
I don't think anybody said " ANYTHING GOES" - we were talking about hunting costing more money to do now than it did in the past.
Post by: DeanD on June 13, 2006, 03:24:00 PM
I think I understand what you are saying and I don't think folks are against any entrepreneur making a buck. But, it's "how" you make that buck that counts.
As always there are multiple pieces to the puzzle of conservation all going back to Aldo Leopold's thought of Land Ethic. Leopold stated we are in community with eachother but also the land and all the resources thereof. The abuse and misuse of any part of that community should concern us because it is "our community." To shoot a deer with a dart and put it to sleep for "big money" seems to me to be an abuse of that animal.
A true entrepreneur should and usually does bring something to the greater good of the community. This idea has the potential for great detriment for the community of the animals involved and the community of us as hunters for the future.
It's my belief that the "Greater Good" is not served well by this idea. That is why I stand opposed to it. Not because someone is trying to make money, but because it is being done in an irresponsible fashion.
Dean
Post by: Double Creek on June 13, 2006, 03:26:00 PM
Post by: Jake H on June 13, 2006, 03:29:00 PM
Post by: Rob DiStefano on June 13, 2006, 03:35:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Slim Buttes:Slim, with all due respect, Sir - what's yer point?
OK, so let me get this straight. Some are against some entrepenor(sp) from making some money. Some on this very site have made it clear that hunting is changing and that if some want to make a buck it so be it-- is the way it is in America. Also the competition is what makes America great.
I'm sure I will be blasted for my thoughts, but I think some are being a bit hypocritical. If you do not support this worldhunt idea look at their sponsor list and let them know that you will know longer "sponsor" them. Let the market decide. Taking a poll on espn or anywhere else won't change things. You vote everyday when you purchase products and support a business.
Just because we don't want to take part in what worldhunt has to offer does not mean others won't, and if it flurishes it will be just one more of a long list of activities that others participate in that I don't.
Finally, I do not support what worldhunt is pushing.
The WHA is either a good thing, a benign thing or a bad thing for hunting - take yer pick.
This has nothing to do with free capitalistic entrepreneurship.
It has everything to do with ethics, greed and the sport of hunting in the US of A.
IMO, the WHA is trying to combine hunting and Hollywood - at hunting and hunters expense - so that WHA can make MONEY. No thanks. It's either them or me, and I choose me.
And as you stated, that's yer final choice, too. Good.
Post by: knife river on June 13, 2006, 03:37:00 PM
The World Hunting Association disgusts me. At best, it's extremely unethical. It's an obscene perversion of true hunting. The WHA is to hunting what gang rape is to a first kiss. Every true sportsman should be outraged by this. This isn't hunting: this is WWF inside a deer pen. Shame on ESPN for not immediately condemning it. No sponsor of the WHA will ever get another penny from my family. I encourage every sportsman who is concerned about hunting to fight the WHA.
You other folks might also consider logging on to ESPN's member forum and posting your thoughts.
Post by: Forester on June 13, 2006, 03:42:00 PM
Now is the time for all hunters to stand together, shoulder to shoulder. While new ideas and change
can sometimes be uncomfortable, this is a great opportunity for hunters to elevate the sport, clear up
misconceptions, and expand the next generation of hunters.
Let us unite as hunters and work together to grow the sport. I welcome your feedback and suggestions
as we are building the tour. Please send feedback to [email protected]. When we launch
the first event in the fall, it will be our tour, designed especially for hunters like us.
We should all be proud.
Sincerely,
David Farbman
Commissioner and CEO, WHA
I think his words have a ring of truth and we should all stand together and show him his intentions are headed 180 degrees in the wrong direction. Flod his own e-mail as well as his sponsors and the media that is carrying this story.
Post by: Killdeer on June 13, 2006, 03:45:00 PM
The motivation for hunting should never be "chicks". (That is a euphemism.)
The motivation for hunting should never be fame.
Hunting is a way to reconnect with our Creator, and the roots of our creation. It is a reaching out and touching of the Source of all our sustenance. To prostitute it in this way abases the animals, the land, and all who participate. It sickens the soul.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Killdeer/TG%20Uploads/Hunting/AA12005BBBOW.jpg)
Killdeer~The Fire burns purely in the woods, and the Moon is watching. Who would deface this beauty?
Post by: insttech1 on June 13, 2006, 03:59:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 13, 2006, 03:59:00 PM
I just got an email from Jeff Stawiarski CEO of Xtreme Scents.
They are issuing a press release that they also have dropped their sponsorship of the WHA. They say they agree with the feedback from the hunting industry.
Another one down!!!!
Post by: Jake H on June 13, 2006, 04:07:00 PM
Post by: Jake H on June 13, 2006, 04:09:00 PM
Post by: DeanD on June 13, 2006, 04:09:00 PM
Wow.
Dean
Post by: kyle on June 13, 2006, 04:09:00 PM
As Aaron Tippin put it.
YOU'VE GOT TO STAND FOR SOMETHING, OR YOU'LL FALL FOR ANYTHING.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 13, 2006, 04:18:00 PM
Post by: tamure on June 13, 2006, 04:54:00 PM
I just got an email from Safari Club saying they are preparing a statement for release this week opposing WHA.
:thumbsup:
Post by: Jake H on June 13, 2006, 05:15:00 PM
Post by: Luke Vander Vennen on June 13, 2006, 05:27:00 PM
Post by: Bill Carlsen on June 13, 2006, 05:33:00 PM
Post by: Ernie Black on June 13, 2006, 05:38:00 PM
Post by: Jake H on June 13, 2006, 05:40:00 PM
Post by: Rob DiStefano on June 13, 2006, 05:43:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Ernie Black:I just made a change to the WHA form code - it now also goes direct to Mr. Farbman.
I just tried the STOP WORLDHUNT NOW ! and received an error message. Anybody else having trouble?
Post by: Ernie Black on June 13, 2006, 05:49:00 PM
Post by: Ben Tiller on June 13, 2006, 05:59:00 PM
David Farbman
Director of Development 248-351-4374
Post by: Ben Tiller on June 13, 2006, 06:00:00 PM
Post by: Ben Tiller on June 13, 2006, 06:00:00 PM
ben
Post by: Jake H on June 13, 2006, 06:06:00 PM
Post by: Bill Carlsen on June 13, 2006, 06:22:00 PM
Mr. Farbam: I have recently become aware of your new program...WorldHunting...and having looked into it I am afraid I cannot support it. I have been a hunter for 54 years and have done rather well considering I hunt only with a bow. If anything, I always do what I understand to be within the law, in the nature and intent of the rules of fair chase and never for the purpose of making money or much more than notoriety among my friends and for the personal satisfaction of knowing I have been successful doing it, as Howard Hill said, the Hard Way. I also do it to feed my family. Your way, is the Worst Way and I cannot see how in God's world you would think that your idea of darting big game with tranquilizers amounts to anything but animal harrassment without the guarnatee that the animal will not succomb to the drugs you perport to use. As I understand it a number of hunting gear mfgrs., recognized big game record keeping organizations and two of your most prominent sponsors have decided to take a position against your program. Making hunting of any kind into a "for profit" (and I assume it will be for YOUR PROFIT) is exactly what is wrong with hunting today. Canned hunts, high fences and lack of real hunting skills is what is often portrayed on all but a few of the many shows and DVDs currently available to the consumer. In the end, I suppose that one would literally have to pay a fee to become a "member" or to become a bonafide "hunter" in your scheme which, even it were a legitimate program, would limit itself to a few elite who had the money and time to become involved and "competitive". I am sorry, sir, but your ideas do not seem to me in any way related to a better portrayal of any decent hunter I know, regardless of the weapon they choose. Your plan would actually attract and involve only those who are probably already suspect in character and motive. I hope your program dies of its own transparent attempt at profiteering. I have sent numerous emails to many in the bowhunting world as well as my own state Fish and Game departments indicating my displeasure with your poorly thought out program. I see no benefits from it for any sportsman but yourself. I wanted to "cowboy up" and tell you myself how I feel about the scheme...and it is a scheme..and a poor one at that.
In addition to the sentiments I expressed to you above I also have other reservations. Would you be using controlled drugs? Don't most state veterinary regulations limit who can use such drugs and is it legal for anyone but a licensed vet to use them? How would such drugs be controlled and by whom? I can see the headlines now about the kids who drive through town taking our pedestrians with their dad's hunting darts. I can certainly see the drugs being used in crimes of violence, like rape or larceny.
Please, Mr. Farbam....give it up and forget it!
Bill Carlsen
Epping, NH
Post by: Jake H on June 13, 2006, 06:45:00 PM
Post by: Arrow4Christ on June 13, 2006, 06:59:00 PM
Post by: gregg dudley on June 13, 2006, 07:04:00 PM
Post by: The BushMaster on June 13, 2006, 07:09:00 PM
Post by: Bill Carlsen on June 13, 2006, 07:10:00 PM
MEDIA ALERT
FLUSHING, Mich., June 9 – No formal agreement exists between the World Hunting Association (WHA) and Eastman Outdoors, Inc. (Carbon Express®) or Gorilla, Inc. (Gorillatm Treestands). Recent reports indicated that Eastman Outdoors, Inc. and Gorilla, Inc. are sponsors of the World Hunting Association. Eastman Outdoors and Gorilla did meet with the WHA. After careful consideration of the WHA program, Eastman Outdoors, Inc. and Gorilla, Inc. decided to decline the sponsorship offer from WHA.
Post by: Ben Tiller on June 13, 2006, 07:16:00 PM
Did I miss that?
ben
Post by: Bill Carlsen on June 13, 2006, 07:26:00 PM
Post by: gregg dudley on June 13, 2006, 07:28:00 PM
Post by: Arrow4Christ on June 13, 2006, 07:29:00 PM
Post by: Bill Carlsen on June 13, 2006, 07:40:00 PM
Bill I agree with you totally, Fred and I were talking about this today. I
am going to a board meeting the end of the month and ATA is on top of this.
Good luck with your eye! Hello to Laura, Michele
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Carlsen"
To:
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 4:19 PM
Subject: World Hunting
Post by: vermonster13 on June 13, 2006, 07:44:00 PM
As of right now everyone of the listed sponsors has distanced themselves from the WHA. I also now have the Michigan Veterinarian Association investigating this ranch and any vets they may claim are going to be working for this on ethics violations.
Post by: Terry Green on June 13, 2006, 07:54:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Slim Buttes:Drug dealers are entrepreneurs too.
OK, so let me get this straight. Some are against some entrepenor(sp) from making some money.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 13, 2006, 07:58:00 PM
Post by: Kevin Smith on June 13, 2006, 08:01:00 PM
Post by: The Grey Ghost on June 13, 2006, 08:19:00 PM
gg
Post by: vermonster13 on June 13, 2006, 08:30:00 PM
Last week's announcement of a World Hunting Association, billed as the
"finest hunters competing for hundreds of thousands of dollars in prize
money" has generated more than its fair share of controversy.
Immediately after The Outdoor Wire's running a release concerning the WHA
and its plans to hold an inaugural event this fall at Gladwin, Michigan's
Lost Arrow Ranch, world-renowned hunting experts started checking in on the
idea. Not many have favored what some opponents call "catch-and-release
hunting".
A brief pass through the myriad of websites dedicated to bowhunting,
although non-scientific, does give something of an insight into the position
of the more vocal hunters. With very few exceptions (the exceptions are
being excoriated by their fellow archers), the idea is being pilloried as
being contrary to the best interests of hunters or deer.
The reasons are as varied as the writing styles, but seem to center on the
fact that tranquilizing the animals, although done on a regular basis by
wildlife managers, poses a significant risk to the deer being "darted".
Further, wildlife managers use air rifles for darting, not bows as is
apparently being proposed by the WHA. Other reasons include the argument
that tranquilizing animals "isn't hunting" and fears that the whole idea
would be seen as just one more indication of the "low-intelligence and moral
fiber" of all hunters.
Others, including a world-renowned hunter, big game guide and archery
expert, have reacted strongly to the idea. These experts point out that
"blunting" deer with archery equipment poses significant risks of delayed
injuries that would be serious enough to eventually kill "darted" animals.
In an open letter to the Michigan Veterinarian Medical Association and the
Michigan Deparment of Natural Resources, Dr. Thomas Caceci, Associate
Professor of Biomedical Sciences & Pathobiology and Director of the
Virginia-Maryland Regional College of Veterinary Medicine and the VMRCVM
Morphology Research Laboratory requests an investigation into the World
Hunting Association, and it's "bizarre plan to conduct a 'catch-and-release'
deer hunt using chemical restraint techniques."
"Any veterinarian is well aware that the anesthetics used in capture guns
are potentially lethal (even more so to humans than to the animals) and
should not be handled by unqualified individuals; that tranquilizing a wild
animal is by no means a trivial matter, but instead carries a significant
risk of injury and death from trauma or capture myopathy," Dr. Cacei writes,
"repeated tranquilization substantially raises the likelihood of the animal
being permanently injured or killed."
Further, he writes, " I ask that MVMA investigate this situation, to
determine if any licensed veterinarians are involved in the venture, and if
so, that MVMA intervene to prevent them from participating. There is no
possible way that this sort of activity can be consistent with the
Veterinarian's Oath and its promise to "alleviate animal suffering.
Furthermore, I ask that your organization inquire of the appropriate
Michigan authorities as to the legality of having untrained individuals
handling controlled substances; and whether or not what is proposed here
violates the Michigan law that prohibits the use of drugs as a means of
killing or capturing wild animals."
Conversations with whitetail organizations brings the hot-button topic of
high-fence hunting into the discussions. The inaugural event is scheduled
for Lost Arrow Ranch in Gladwin, Michigan. It is a high-fence operation.
Post by: Glenn29 on June 13, 2006, 08:32:00 PM
It sounds like we are far from out of the woods and I hope some of the bigger guys have not joined up with the clown.
Fingers crossed!
Post by: Arrow4Christ on June 13, 2006, 08:38:00 PM
Post by: redfish on June 13, 2006, 09:19:00 PM
Look at professional bass fishing. Look at the other TV hunting shows, featuring men with make up (not camo either) with starched and pressed hunting clothes.
Not for me.
Post by: tamure on June 13, 2006, 10:11:00 PM
:(
Post by: vermonster13 on June 13, 2006, 10:13:00 PM
Post by: bbassi on June 13, 2006, 10:25:00 PM
We are just a small minority of the hunting public. In that I mean that I know a lot of hunters that do not spend much time on the computer and may have no idea this is going on. Therefore, I got on my email and sent a letter to everyone in my contacts list that has any stake in hunting. I'm not much of a wordsmith but here's what it says;
Quote
Friends,I encourage everyone here to do something similar. There is no such thing as TOO MUCH support when it comes to something like this. - Brent
It has come to my attention, through a bow hunting website I visit, that there is a group of individuals who are attempting to turn hunting into a spectator based sport similar to the B.A.S.S. tournaments. The promoters of this new “sport” intend to have teams compete against each other, and the deer (or other animals) in a points based competition where the animals will be shot with tranquilizer darts behind high fences, and later released. A “catch and release” type of competition if you will. The promoter is promising huge purses in the hundreds of thousands of dollar range for each competition. This organization isn’t interested in hunting as we are. They are interested in money, Plain and simple. They are attempting to cash in on our hunting heritage, regardless of the damage it will do.
For those of you here that are hunters, and those of you that have family and friends that are hunters, it is really important for you to understand the potential damage this farce holds for us in the hunting community. I feel this idea has the potential to put the final nail in the coffin of hunting as we know it in America. We constantly have to battle the anti-hunting community in order to maintain our privilege of hunting. For the most part thus far we have been successful because we have been able to convince the non-hunting public that we hold high ethical standards and respect the animals we take and utilize them as food for our families. This new organization will, if given the chance, completely destroy this image that we all have worked so hard to cultivate throughout our hunting lives. Let’s be honest folks, this has the very real potential to turn the 80% of the public that is neither for nor against hunting, decisively against hunting in all forms.
Those of you who know me know that I rarely get this worked up about anything, but this threat is REAL. The organizers of this venture have deep pockets, have already lined up some major sponsors, and apparently are in talks with ESPN to televise these “events”. I’m very happy to hear that through some very vocal grass roots efforts, it seems that several of the initial sponsors have rescinded their support, but I fear this is but the first volley in a very long war. There are many more potential sponsors in the hunting industry that could be convince by this organization that their support would be beneficial to their business UNLESS we rise up in one voice to show our disgust of this ridiculous venture. Honestly folks, these brain surgeons have the potential to do to hunting what the Humane Society and PETA have been unable to do for years. Turn the public against hunting!
I am asking you all, as my friends, to do just a few things;
1. Go to this website and read what has been posted. http://tradgang.com//noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=033820;p=1
2. I also encourage you to go to the WHA website and watch the promo and read their information. I am sure you will be as alarmed about this as I am. http://www.worldhunt.com/
3. Get involved to whatever extent you can. It may be as simple as emailing potential sponsors to voice your disapproval, to boycotting certain manufacturers that decide to support this abomination.
4. And lastly, pass this along to everyone you know who has the slightest stake in the future of hunting, from family to coworkers. There are 13 million hunters in this country that have a real stake in the outcome of this battle. I hope you and yours will join our side.
Sincerely,
Post by: vermonster13 on June 13, 2006, 10:45:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 13, 2006, 11:01:00 PM
UPDATE Tuesday June 13, 9:17 PM
Never blow off a conspiracy theory again! This WTDHT--World Tranquilizer Deer Hunting Tour--story keeps getting weirder and weirder. The tech folks at ESPNOutdoors.com have pulled the poll. They said it was pretty obvious that something nefarious was afoot--the votes came in at far too fast a rate, unlike they've ever experienced before. The last word I just got was that the ESPN poll was definitely hacked! We were right all along at the ZONE, no way hunters would back a pro-dart tour. More to come later on this whole fiasco.
By the way Trad Gang received credit for writing the letter to bring it to their attention!
Post by: JasonV on June 14, 2006, 12:25:00 AM
I won't bore everyone with the content of the e-mails - its similar to what has been well-said on here so far. However, I did want to share part of it, since I think it may help to dissuade potential sponsors even further:
-------------------------------------------------
" The following is from a Michigan Statute relating to the use of animals "as targets to be shot at as a test of marksmanship."
Sections (b) and (e) would suggest that any organization supporting or sponsoring this activity would also be subject to legal action.
§ 750.49.
Sec. 49. (1) As used in this section, "animal" means a vertebrate other than a human.
(2) A person shall not knowingly do any of the following:
(a) Own, possess, use, buy, sell, offer to buy or sell, import, or export an animal for fighting or baiting, or as a target to be shot at as a test of skill in marksmanship.
(b) Be a party to or cause the fighting, baiting, or shooting of an animal as described in subdivision (a).
(e) Organize, promote, or collect money for the fighting, baiting, or shooting of an animal as described in subdivisions (a) to (d).
I would encourage you to consider the legal implications and the potential for serious legal action against your organization should you choose to support this activity."
-------------------------------------------------
I have no idea if this really would be a legal liability for the sponsors, but its worth looking into.....
Post by: Arrow4Christ on June 14, 2006, 01:25:00 AM
check this out....guess we really need to pound ESPN.
Post by: Arrow4Christ on June 14, 2006, 01:40:00 AM
I would like to express my disapproval the WHA hunting tour. If you decide to air this travesty, you will be doing hunting a disservice. This event is disgraceful and disrespectful to the animals. It's injuring the animals hunted for no other reason than to boost the hunter's ego and win some money. Real hunting is done on an ethical and management basis and benefits the wildlife, this tour could be considered wildlife harassment. Please do not air this fuel for the anti-hunting movement.
Craig
Accidentally sent it in 3 times LOL...Well that'll give me 3 times the chance they'll look at it. Here's the address: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?page=contact/espntv
Post by: John Cooper on June 14, 2006, 02:22:00 AM
I'm hoping they strike before they even start to hunt!
I'm wondering if the animal cruelty controversy has a loophole by him saying "The positive impact the WHA will have on conservation, including aging of animals, vaccinations against widespread disease found in deer herds, and other valuable scientific and wildlife impacts."
This seems SO wrong. Besides, I could barely stand listening to the guy for the two minutes he was talking...imagine a whole hour!
John
Post by: Texasrecurve on June 14, 2006, 02:43:00 AM
TR
Post by: Tedd on June 14, 2006, 07:41:00 AM
I shot him an e-mail to get some feedback. He feels like we all do "Who would want to hunt like that??!!"
He did not seem to give the WorldHunt any credibility.
He did keep his reply brief and is probably checking into it deeper.
Tedd
Post by: JC on June 14, 2006, 08:43:00 AM
I appreciate the hard work already done by those here, David especially.
The repurcusssions to this sick event due indeed threaten our very existence as hunters. I will send the emails along side yours...and continue to pray.
Post by: Rob DiStefano on June 14, 2006, 09:21:00 AM
http://tradgang.com/worldhunt/
.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 14, 2006, 09:29:00 AM
Post by: Ben Tiller on June 14, 2006, 09:51:00 AM
LARRY WHITELY, HEAD OF PR AT BASS PRO VIA PHONE. . .
"We are not happy with [it] AT ALL"
That was in a voice mail he left me. I will be talking to him later and will let you all know what they plan to do. We need to get Cabelas behind us. Consider this--10,000 tradgangers spending an average of $100 a year = $1,000,000 in lost revenue. They WILL listen. Make sure they get the chance to hear you.
ben
Post by: Glenn29 on June 14, 2006, 10:00:00 AM
The main one that comes to mind is the Drury Brothers Dream Season...Same thing except that do kill the animal.
I guess we take it one at a time...
And glad to see Bass Pro is not in the mix cause that company would be a monster to stop.
Post by: Ben Tiller on June 14, 2006, 10:12:00 AM
There is not a David Farbman resgistered to vote in MI. If that tells you anything.
ben
Post by: Timberghost on June 14, 2006, 10:16:00 AM
I spoke with the managers/owners/staff at Schulers Outdoors (Gainesville, GA), Outdoor Traditions (Dawsonville, GA), Oakwood Sportsman's Lodge (Oakwood, GA), Northside Pawn (Columbus, GA), and Shooters of Columbus (Columbus, GA), Black Widow Custom Bows, and Roberts Brother's Turkey Calls today. Left a lengthy voice mail for the honcho at Summit Tree Stands too. Tried to steer all of these folks to TRADGANG and encourage them to help stop the WHA.
This could be kinda fun if it wasn't so critically important!
Post by: stickbowguy on June 14, 2006, 10:37:00 AM
Post by: Firstarrow on June 14, 2006, 10:45:00 AM
Begging you permission - I cut and pasted your note to your friends and changed some verbage, but sent it out my friends..
Rich
Post by: stickbowguy on June 14, 2006, 10:47:00 AM
Post by: Ben Tiller on June 14, 2006, 10:48:00 AM
Post by: Ray Hammond on June 14, 2006, 10:58:00 AM
think about how wrong your remark is- they are shooting LIVING ANIMALS with drugs...ITS NOT A COMPUTER GAME.
What you have written here is the REASON I am so frightened should this event take place.
People unused to thinking something all the way through until they understand it will say, "oh, its OK, its a computer game."
It's not a computer game its the END OF HUNTING if it happens.
This is how the non hunting public will see it:
High fences, shooting penned deer with drugs, deer that do not react well to being tranquilized and that exhibit a good deal of mortality when shot with darts, shown on TV for the amusement of some, the utter horror of others so they can MAKE UP THEIR MINDS how sick those of us who hunt are after all- hey,they knew it all the time! -and the logical next step is a national ballot to outlaw hunting...which way will they vote once they have SEEN ON TV how horrible it really is?
Post by: vermonster13 on June 14, 2006, 11:07:00 AM
These folks are defining this as huntings future. They are representing us as are only value being cash. I can't stand for this and I bet the more you learn, the more your thoughts on this change.
Post by: Ben Tiller on June 14, 2006, 11:07:00 AM
ben
Post by: BONE on June 14, 2006, 11:10:00 AM
Post by: Blue Moose on June 14, 2006, 11:13:00 AM
TM
Post by: T. Downing on June 14, 2006, 11:39:00 AM
Post by: JasonV on June 14, 2006, 11:54:00 AM
Just look at the promotional video on their own website:
The "chairman and CEO" sound like he's promoting a cage-match between hunter and deer. Their "hunter" then draws on a big whitetail and closes his eyes to dream of cash, sporstcars, mansions and a handful of "buck-bimbos" walking toward him across a food-plot - he then opens his eyes and shoots.
Utterly vulgar!
They've reduced the deer to a target - nothing more than a means to gain fame and fortune. The most impportant aspect of the hunt is replaced by the spectacle and the almighty dollar!
Do we really want the general public to think this is our motivation???? Not me! I'll do anything I can to be sure this moron doesn't represent MY future of hunting.
Post by: Arrow4Christ on June 14, 2006, 11:57:00 AM
Here's a link to email Polaris from...It appears they are having a sweepstakes on their site.
Post by: Arrow4Christ on June 14, 2006, 11:57:00 AM
Post by: knife river on June 14, 2006, 12:01:00 PM
Post by: JasonV on June 14, 2006, 12:01:00 PM
Post by: Chad Sivertsen on June 14, 2006, 12:07:00 PM
Will WHA have the dubious honor of uniting animal rights groups and hunters? Maybe not shoulder to shoulder but at least on the same side of the street.
Post by: Ben Tiller on June 14, 2006, 12:07:00 PM
Cabela's will be releasing their statement against the WHA later today. I just got off the phone with David Draper, director of PR, and he had just sent it off for approval from the VP's. He is going to e-mail me a copy once it is approved, and I will post it here immediately upon receipt. You are running out of patches for your camo, Mr. Farbman. Beat it!
ben **************************************************
Post by: MI_Bowhunter on June 14, 2006, 12:07:00 PM
I also sent emails to my fellow board members at the archery club and, at this time, have not received a response from any of them. (I have received other emails from some so I know they checking)
I'm dumbfounded that these people don't see this as a threat...or a least a really bad idea. :thumbsup:
Post by: MI_Bowhunter on June 14, 2006, 12:09:00 PM
Post by: BigRonHuntAlot on June 14, 2006, 12:14:00 PM
Dear Ron Andrews,
Thank you for contacting Polaris Consumer Service in regards to Worldhunt.
Unfortunately, I am only equipped to answer questions regarding the PurePolaris Online Store. Please contact our Corporate Office at 763-542-0500 between
8:30 am and 4:30 pm Central Time, Monday through Friday.
We thank you for your inquiry and look forward to your next visit to
http://www.purepolaris.com/Default.aspx
Sincerely,
John
Polaris Direct Consumer Service
1-800-304-6067
[email protected]
----- Original Message -----
From: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 12:34 PM
Subject: Other question/inquiry
From: Ron Andrews
Message:
I am writing to urge you to pull your sponsorship from World Hunt. This is not the way to teach our youth. I would hate to quit purchasing Polaris Products but will if your support for this is continued. RonCONFIDENTIAL: The information contained in this email communication is confidential information intended only for the use of the addressee. Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return email and destroy all copies of this communication, including all attachments.
Post by: BillyBobHowdieVern on June 14, 2006, 12:17:00 PM
Post by: Arrow4Christ on June 14, 2006, 12:21:00 PM
Post by: BillyBobHowdieVern on June 14, 2006, 12:24:00 PM
Post by: Bill Carlsen on June 14, 2006, 12:27:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 14, 2006, 12:31:00 PM
Gander Mountain
Dick's Sporting Goods
Sportsman's Warehouse
All need to be approached also.
We can convince a lot of manufacturers that the WHA is bad for business if the retail outlets they depend on let them know they won't carry products from WHA sponsors.
It's all about the money guys so lets hit them in the wallet where it hurts!
Post by: hood_lum on June 14, 2006, 01:04:00 PM
Please do not be quick to jump on the people that voice there opinion that they can see nothing wrong with this. Instead take the time to listen to everything they have to say and then use it to better explain our stance. Then you have to break it down to them in the simplist form possible. This is the USA and they have the right to their opinion. After they have all the info most will see the WHA for what it truly is. The most important thing we can do is not let the WHA weather the storm and then go on to function down the road. I've sent the emails made the phone calls and will continue to do what ever I can to help. On the flip side, I suggest a trad gang shirt stating our oposition to the WHA with procedes going to the major organization that comes out and fights the WHA head on. I need a XXL and my brother needs a XXXL. Continue to strive brothers and sisters, nobody said any of this would be easy.
Adam Ott
Lincoln NE
Post by: vermonster13 on June 14, 2006, 01:11:00 PM
Post by: Ray Hammond on June 14, 2006, 01:21:00 PM
I don't know anyone there...does anyone here have an access person they could get the ball rolling with?
Post by: Aram on June 14, 2006, 01:21:00 PM
Quote
Gander MountainAnyone have email or phone contacts for these?
Dick's Sporting Goods
Outdoorsman's Wharehouse
Could you post?
Post by: vermonster13 on June 14, 2006, 01:52:00 PM
Corporate Office
180 East Fifth Street, Suite 1300
St. Paul, MN 55101
Toll Free: 1-888-5GANDER
Phone: (651) 325-4300
Post by: vermonster13 on June 14, 2006, 01:54:00 PM
http://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com/contactus.htm
Post by: vermonster13 on June 14, 2006, 01:55:00 PM
1.877.846.9997
Post by: Drifter on June 14, 2006, 01:56:00 PM
http://www.ussportsmen.org/interactive/features/Read1.cfm?ID=42
Here's a link to their partners and affiliates.
http://www.ussportsmen.org/interactive/features/PARTNERLINKS.CFM
Post by: Aram on June 14, 2006, 02:03:00 PM
I just sent an email to The Michigan department of agriculture also. I'll post their response.
http://michigan.gov/mda/0,1607,7-125-1572-85723--,00.html
I'll write to the ones listed above asap
Thanx again,
Aram
Post by: Huntschool on June 14, 2006, 02:06:00 PM
Here is a cut and paste from the NSSF's "Bullet Points" from yesterday:
"PAY-PER-VIEW, SHOOT-AND-RELEASE HUNTING TOURNEY...Imagine a televised hunting tournament, with a roster of professionals competing each week like NASCAR drivers. A cameraman accompanies each hunter as they shoot deer with dart guns, immobilizing prey long enough for scoring. At the end of the season, winners receive big cash and prizes. It's all part of the vision of the new World Hunting Association (WHA), which last week announced that hunting now has its own professional sports league, with a worldwide tour kicking off later this year. WHA's founder will serve as the league's commissioner. NSSF doubts the concept's legal and public health viability. Moreover, in an interview with the Midland (Mich.) Daily News, NSSF likened the whole thing to the ongoing debacle over remote Internet hunting: It's all merely the latest bad idea du jour for perverting a noble heritage into a huckster's sideshow, and one more disservice to the tradition, purpose and image of hunting. Unfortunately, media attention to WHA is spreading fast."
My contact at NSSF tell me they (NSSF) is on top of this.
Post by: Tony Phillips on June 14, 2006, 02:06:00 PM
http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=338104&highlight=hunt
Post by: vermonster13 on June 14, 2006, 02:10:00 PM
[email protected]
Post by: Drifter on June 14, 2006, 02:19:00 PM
Dear Kurt,
Thank you for contacting me. I was unaware of this situation. I'd like to contact a few of my colleagues and get back with you. I'll be in touch soon.
Karlene
Post by: Ray Hammond on June 14, 2006, 02:25:00 PM
I'm getting too old for this crap. When they quit teaching LOGIC in public school they began this downward spiral of intelligence in the citizens of this country.
Dumbing us down is what makes stuff like this possible.
Post by: Glenn29 on June 14, 2006, 02:27:00 PM
Post by: Texasrecurve on June 14, 2006, 02:28:00 PM
TR
Post by: Arrow4Christ on June 14, 2006, 02:28:00 PM
Dear Craig:
Thank you for your e-mail, which we believe to be referencing http://www.worldhunt.com/. It's always a pleasure hearing from our customers as to what they like and dislike, and we can certainly understand and appreciate your concerns regarding this endeavor.
Cabela's does not have any plans at this point in time to support or sponsor this "hunting tour". I would appreciate it if you could forward or provide any further details indicating the contrary, if you see them.
Cabela's does value your past patronage and support of our company, Craig, and we look forward to future opportunities to be of service.
Sincerely,
Cabela's, Inc.
Mark Speer
Customer Relations Site Manager
Sweet!
Post by: vermonster13 on June 14, 2006, 02:32:00 PM
SCI Latest Statement
From Ken Schwartz
SCI Questions Concept of "World Hunting Association"
The "World Hunting Association" last week announced that it would stage a series of "tournament" professional hunting events this year, in which the game pursued would be shot with tranquilizer darts launched from bow hunting equipment. Participants would compete for much as $600,000 in prize money over the series of tournament events. SCI has serious concerns with attempts to "professionalize" the tradition of the hunt, particularly with cash rewards. In addition, the institution of "catch and release" tactics for hunting, using powerful sedatives, is highly questionable with regard to the future health of the game animals that are captured for the competition. While the group espouses the noble goals of increasing hunter recruitment and retention, SCI believes that education and outreach programs remain the best option for bring newcomers into the field. Likewise, SCI believes that conventional regulated hunting techniques, including due diligence on the part of hunters to prevent the wounding of game, are the only true definition of hunting. SCI President Mike Simpson told Crosshairs that "Hunting isn't bass fishing. It just doesn't translate to made-for-TV entertainment, conducted on a professional catch-and-release basis for cash rewards."
Post by: vermonster13 on June 14, 2006, 02:47:00 PM
Post by: Terry Green on June 14, 2006, 02:53:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by hood_lum:Not that we are anything major...but we/us/you ARE hitting WHA head on. Many have posted on this thread and a few that aren't have done MUCH that's not even been mentioned here, they aren't even taking the time to post here. This thread is the tip of the iceberg. WHA is being hit from all directions at once.
the major organization that comes out and fights the WHA head on.
DO NOT LET UP...and allow them to GET UP. Stay after em guys....amaizing what you all have done so far.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 14, 2006, 02:57:00 PM
1-800-976-6344.
Post by: Glenn29 on June 14, 2006, 03:01:00 PM
http://www.basspro.com/servlet/catalog.CFPage?appID=243&navid=customerservice&cmid=BN_IN_CUSTSERV
Post by: vermonster13 on June 14, 2006, 03:01:00 PM
Post by: Arrow4Christ on June 14, 2006, 03:08:00 PM
Dear Mr. Farbman
It seems your sponsors for the WHA are running for cover! This abomination you call hunting is doing no service to hunting...In fact, it is a threat to this tradition I love so much. God gave us these creatures to protect, respect, and mange properly. Hunting is part of that circle, tranquilizing a deer so some jerk can boost his ego and win some money is NOT. Tell me sir, how are you going to keep those arrows from penetrating into the vitals to some degree when a bad shot is made? This is not hunting! May it never be described as something so vile! I hope you reconsider this horrible event and expand hunting in a much better way, such as an education and awareness program. This is just giving us hunters a bad name. It is disrespectful not only to us real hunters, but also to the animals you are so wrongly harming. As a bowhunter I am disgusted by this program.
Sincerely,
Craig Grounds
Post by: vermonster13 on June 14, 2006, 03:58:00 PM
Please write letters of support to this lady. Karlene Belyea. She is the director of the Michigan Veterinary Medical Association. Her investigation could very well put an end to this before it ever gets to start! Please keep the tone respectful and factual, she's on our side folks.
[email protected]
Post by: John Scifres on June 14, 2006, 04:44:00 PM
Thanks again for your ardent pursuit of an end to this debauchery! Here is my note to Ms. Belyea:
Quote
I am sure by now you have heard of the World “Hunting” Association’s (http://www.worldhunt.com/) plans to hold animal darting contests inside of pens for prize money and for the purpose of entertainment. This is being billed as a hunting contest but they will be shooting at livestock inside fenced areas at the Lost Arrow Ranch with tranquilizing darts. I have heard that your organization is looking it to this. I encourage you to be diligent in determining if this practice meets the standards of veterinary practice and whether it even is legal in Michigan. Thank you for any help you can be in eliminating this shameful mutation of competitive “hunting” and reality TV. As an avid hunter and true animal lover I can see no good coming from this erosion of the humane treatment of captive animals. It in no way meets the standards of fair chase that we ethical hunters hold up as the basis for our pursuits. Thank you for your time.
Sincerely,
John Scifres
Indianapolis, IN
Post by: vermonster13 on June 14, 2006, 04:58:00 PM
Folks we are having great results and a lot of effect. But we need to be diligent, I have heard rumors floating around of a back up venue in Colorado. Any members there with any connections need to be on guard. This is far from over and Farbman boasted that he has enough money for two events even without sponsors and that they'll comeback when they see how successful this is.
So keep up the good work folks.
Post by: Bill Carlsen on June 14, 2006, 05:00:00 PM
Dear William:
Thank you for your recent e-mail regarding the World Hunting
Association.
Cabela's was approached for sponsorship of the W.H.A. and we declined to
be involved. Furthermore, consistent with the conservation groups and
industry associations Cabela's is affiliated with, we do not support the
W.H.A. We are also working with our partners and suppliers to influence
their stance as to this issue.
We are closely monitoring the situation and will continue to do so.
Cabela's always works to uphold the values of our customers, for they
are our values as well. We appreciate your patronage.
Sincerely,
Cabela's, Inc.
Ken Steffens
Executive Assistant
Post by: John Scifres on June 14, 2006, 05:01:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 14, 2006, 05:06:00 PM
Post by: Texasrecurve on June 14, 2006, 05:20:00 PM
TR
Post by: Ben Tiller on June 14, 2006, 05:34:00 PM
ben
Post by: Texasrecurve on June 14, 2006, 05:36:00 PM
From: "rodney mitchell"
Subject: world hunt
To: [email protected]
Well Mr. Farbman, it appears that your sponsors are fleeing like rats off of a sinking ship. I watched your video with interest and was amazed. Believe me, you don't speak for the true hunters in this country. The message boards on the internet are flooded with outrage over your idea, but I am sure you know that. Let me just say that hunting is NOT a competitive, spectator sport. You should be embarassed to be trying to make it so. I will continue to watch with great interest as the word continues to spread about your venture and my fellow hunters continue to band together to stop it.
Yours truly,
Rodney MItchell
Graham, Texas
My email to the grand potentate of the WTT.
TR
Post by: kawika b on June 14, 2006, 07:22:00 PM
Post by: Ben Tiller on June 14, 2006, 07:57:00 PM
Keep fighting the good fight.
ben
Post by: Terry Green on June 14, 2006, 08:03:00 PM
Keep up the good work!!!!
Post by: BigRonHuntAlot on June 14, 2006, 08:51:00 PM
Post by: John Nail on June 14, 2006, 09:02:00 PM
Post by: Ray Hammond on June 14, 2006, 09:24:00 PM
May I humbly suggest that you refrain from writing emails and/or letters directly to Mr Farbman that are goading or gloating in nature?
I know this man's type- ego is everything for a fellow like this and he has money to burn. I think we should keep working, staying out in front, but avoid communicating directly with him in that type of tone because all we are going to get with that is entrenchment...I may have even overstepped the bounds in my email to him yesterday...but I am continually strategizing this thing and I have come to teh conclusion that communicating directly with him is 1- a waste of time and 2- will only serve to make him more belligerant about finding a way to get this thing done in spite of all our efforts.
Let our actions be righteous, let our efforts be unceasing, but attacking him directly is not the best course in my opinion.
Stay after the state of Michigan, and Colorado, stay after the advertiser/sponsors, and the ATA and NRA and Wildlife Legislative Fund but stay away from Farbman unless you are being real civilized in your remarks. It will serve us better I think.
Post by: John Nail on June 14, 2006, 09:37:00 PM
I went to Archery Talk and registered, just so I could speak out against WHA, There are a few people there fighting the fight, but a lot of nut cases on the other side arguing with them.
SCI Questions Concept of "World Hunting Association"
The "World Hunting Association" last week announced that it would stage a series of "tournament" professional hunting events this year, in which the game pursued would be shot with tranquilizer darts launched from bow hunting equipment. Participants would compete for much as $600,000 in prize money over the series of tournament events. SCI has serious concerns with attempts to "professionalize" the tradition of the hunt, particularly with cash rewards. In addition, the institution of "catch and release" tactics for hunting, using powerful sedatives, is highly questionable with regard to the future health of the game animals that are captured for the competition. While the group espouses the noble goals of increasing hunter recruitment and retention, SCI believes that education and outreach programs remain the best option for bring newcomers into the field. Likewise, SCI believes that conventional regulated hunting techniques, including due diligence on the part of hunters to prevent the wounding of game, are the only true definition of hunting. SCI President Mike Simpson told Crosshairs that "Hunting isn't bass fishing. It just doesn't translate to made-for-TV entertainment, conducted on a professional catch-and-release basis for cash rewards."
Post by: John Nail on June 14, 2006, 09:40:00 PM
Post by: Slycoyote on June 14, 2006, 10:03:00 PM
Post by: knife river on June 14, 2006, 10:08:00 PM
I googled "David Farbman" and found a profile of him in some Detroit publication that was nothing short of hero worship. It was sickeningly sweet. Made me throw up in my mouth a little.
!["[dead]"]("graemlins/dead.gif" "\"\"")
Post by: JasonV on June 14, 2006, 10:09:00 PM
I'll vigrously defend their right to their opinions but I was a bit surprised by the reaction to my post there...
_________________________________________________
I think its been stated many times before, but it bears repeating:
THIS ISN'T HUNTING.
Its prostituting our hunting heritage in an attempt to make a few men wealthy.
Just look at the promo video on the WHA website:
The "comissioner" sounds like a pitch-man for professional wrestling. Claiming that he and his obscene b@stardization of hunting are "the future of hunting".
The anti-hunting organizations have claimed for years that we hunters are guilty of using game animals as nothing more than interactive targets - now this joker wants to prove them right!!!!!!
Watch the video: the "hunter" draws on a whitetail then closes his eyes to imagine the piles of cash, the sportscars, the mansion, and the handful of "buck-bimbos" walking toward him across a food-plot as the wind blows their hair back seductively - then he opens his eyes and shoots.
Is there really a single hunter here who doesn't find that very image vile and repulsive? Isn't killing a trophy-class deer in and of itself reward enough? Have the fee-for-trophy hunting farms so effectively diminished the meaning of a trophy whitetail, that it is now nothing more than a means to an end?
Do we really think we need to attract new hunters with the promise of fame, fortune, and loose women?????? Is this what we want them to think hunting is all about?
If this abomination comes to pass, I feel a great sense of loss for all the new "hunters" Mr Fabram brings to the fold. Even if some poor kid from inner-city Detroit becomes his next deer-darting superstar, complete with fame, fortune, and women - the poor kid will never know the true exhileration of real hunting. He's the one who will really lose in the long run.
Am I bashing fellow hunters?
Nope.
These guys may have hunted before - but the WHA isn't hunting - and no true hunter would ever prositute his hunting heritage for something as worthless as handfuls of money.
They aren't hunters.
Furthermore, any organization sponsoring the WHA clearly does NOT understand or represent the interests of hunting or true hunters. They should rest assured that the real hunters will take notice......
______________________________________________
UNfortunately, I think the mods there have gotten an earful from some of the guys supporting WHA, and probably some of the potential participants, as they sent a message that "personally attacking the participants or supporters" is off-limits.
Hopefully I didn't overstep, but its genuinely how I feel.....
Post by: Slycoyote on June 14, 2006, 10:17:00 PM
Post by: bbassi on June 14, 2006, 10:21:00 PM
http://tradgang.com/worldhunt/
B
Post by: Timberghost on June 14, 2006, 11:05:00 PM
Everone, call or email a sporting goods manufacturer or retailer you like and steer them toward this site. It works!
Post by: vermonster13 on June 14, 2006, 11:25:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 14, 2006, 11:37:00 PM
Scott Alread
Bear Archery
Marvin Carlston
Gold Tip Inc.
Peter Crawford
G5 Outdoors
Michele Eichler,
Muzzy Products Corp
Larry Griffith,
Bohning Company
Pete Shepley
Precision Shooting Equipment
Malcom Snyder
Pape's Inc.
Ben Summers,
T.R.U. Ball Release Products
Todd R Vaaler,
Gateway Feathers
Paul Vaicunas,
Horton Manufacturing Inc.
Laverne Woock,
Delta Industries
Sales Representative
Bruce Hudalla
Hudalla Associates, Inc.
Retail
Peter Gussie
Midwest Cimmarron Archery
John Larsen
Bwana Archery
Randy Phillips
Archery Headquarters Inc.
Post by: Rob DiStefano on June 15, 2006, 05:50:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Slycoyote:Good idea .... DONE!
Can we get a Stop WorldHunt Now Link on the Tradgang main page to assist other coming from other sites to participate as well. Right now you must enter Pow Wow to see it.
516 STOP WORLDHUNT NOW! emails sent as of now ...
.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 15, 2006, 08:30:00 AM
Fred Bear Outdoors
Escalade Sports
817 Maxwell Avenue
Evansville, IN 47711
Phone: 866-556-2754 (Toll Free)
Fax: 812-425-1425
Post by: Terry Green on June 15, 2006, 09:07:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by vermonster13:Well, selling the sizzle and not the steak never works for very long.
the rumor is they support it as a way to increase archery sales which haven't grown much in the last ten years.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 15, 2006, 09:43:00 AM
Post by: Piper on June 15, 2006, 09:52:00 AM
Mr. Farbman…wake up!
What on earth are you trying to accomplish other than to line your pockets with some “Bassmaster” type cash at the expense of all of the hard work of your former sportsman colleagues? You are making a mockery out of what stirs in a hunter’s heart every autumn. You are putting a dollar figure on something that has never been for sale. And now, armed with the ammunition you have placed on a platter, you have enabled the antis to serve up more corroboration of their view on what a hunter is to the masses. High fences and walking advertisements in pursuit of the elusive, but captive, whitetail deer is not hunting…you know that. Stop your madness….your don’t want to forever be referred to as the “Outdoorsman’s Benedict Arnold”….or do you?
The men and women of the Alberta Traditional Bowhunters Association won’t be watching and….your sponsors will know that we won’t be supporting them or purchasing any of their products.
Gary McCartney
President- Alberta Traditional Bowhunters Association
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.4/363 - Release Date: 6/13/2006
Post by: joel smith on June 15, 2006, 09:53:00 AM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 15, 2006, 10:02:00 AM
Post by: Piper on June 15, 2006, 10:28:00 AM
Thanks again for you work...
Post by: vermonster13 on June 15, 2006, 10:40:00 AM
Gary thanks for the support from our family to the north! This guy wants to make it a world league well he needs a worlds worth of trouble then.
Post by: JasonV on June 15, 2006, 10:55:00 AM
Looks like a more realistic poll: about 80% against...
http://www.weloveoutdoors.com/default.asp?page=main
Post by: vermonster13 on June 15, 2006, 11:01:00 AM
Post by: John Scifres on June 15, 2006, 11:06:00 AM
Post by: John Scifres on June 15, 2006, 11:08:00 AM
Post by: Mike Tomano on June 15, 2006, 11:24:00 AM
Regarding WHA, I can't imagine ANY HUNTING ORGANIZATIONS backing them up!
I'll quote Nugent on this one..."(WHA is) antiHunting, antiNature, antiBalance, antiScience, antiCreation, antiBiodiversity, antiTed!! KILL THE BEAST!! blatant antis in disguise!"
Keep Up The Good Fight! See you at Compton this weekend!
TOMANO
Post by: vermonster13 on June 15, 2006, 11:27:00 AM
Post by: Mike Tomano on June 15, 2006, 11:39:00 AM
TOMANO
Post by: MI_Bowhunter on June 15, 2006, 11:46:00 AM
-----------------------------------------------
Subject : WHA
Mike –
Please be assured that we have no intention of supporting this organization in any way.
I have already contacted our vendors and told them our feelings on the WHA and urged them not to support them either.
I am also writing a letter to be posted on our web site, other web sites, and sent to WHA stating our feelings and condemnation of this organization.
Larry Whiteley
Manager
Corporate Public Relations and Outdoor Education
Office (417) 873-5022
Cell (417) 689-1118
[email protected]
----------------------------------------------
Way to go Bass Pro!!! :thumbsup:
Please don't forget to send letters of support to those organizations and vendors who are working with us on this. We need to let them know how many of us support their stance against the WHA.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 15, 2006, 12:04:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 15, 2006, 12:06:00 PM
Post by: Jake H on June 15, 2006, 12:17:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 15, 2006, 12:23:00 PM
You can harvest the buck that won the WHA Invitational at XXX ranch! Just think of the chest puffers lining up for that. How much do you think auctions for these deer could bring from misguided fanboys.
Post by: T. Downing on June 15, 2006, 12:49:00 PM
Post by: Ray Hammond on June 15, 2006, 01:26:00 PM
Hey guys,
Sorry for the delay in getting this to you and thanks again for calling in with your concerns.
Cabela’s was approached for sponsorship of the W.H.A. and we declined to be involved. Furthermore, consistent with the conservation groups and industry associations Cabela’s is affiliated with, we do not support the W.H.A. We are also working with our partners and suppliers to influence their stance as to this issue.
We are closely monitoring the situation and will continue to do so. Cabela’s always works to uphold the values of our customers, for they are our values as well. We appreciate your patronage.
David Draper
Outdoor Communications
Cabela's Inc.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 15, 2006, 01:36:00 PM
Post by: Mike aka bowjunkie on June 15, 2006, 01:52:00 PM
Would assume they are from the outdoors world arena. And his financial backing from his real estate venture.
Great job TG on the poll and to everyone here for fighting the good fight against this heretic.
Post by: non-typical on June 15, 2006, 02:24:00 PM
based on your thoughts it's not hard to imagine seperate "worship" webpages for the largest bucks along with marketing photos, t-shirts, 6" silver belt buckles or that special "mucho mongo" polaris AWD. Then you throw in the color commentators with their headsets on whispering their scripted lines as the brave hunters stalk the mighty hero buck (they couldn't yell like the Nascar guys do). It's outdoor prostitutionalized commercialism at its worst.
Post by: Jake H on June 15, 2006, 02:29:00 PM
Post by: JasonV on June 15, 2006, 02:34:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by non-typical:I like it - pretty much says it all :thumbsup:
prostitutionalized commercialism at its worst.
Post by: holadude on June 15, 2006, 03:07:00 PM
We are the ones fightng the fire, but also the ones that will be ultimately blamed. I think we've been framed! It is odd that I have not heard a peep out of PeTA or HSUS about this. They should be screaming, but they're not. They are purposly waiting until it gets out of control, then they will step in and declare themselves, "Heroes".
Post by: vermonster13 on June 15, 2006, 03:10:00 PM
Post by: joel smith on June 15, 2006, 03:16:00 PM
thanks and apologies if I'm repeating
Post by: vermonster13 on June 15, 2006, 03:20:00 PM
The lesson guys is that ther are still a lot of people out there with no idea this is going on. We are no where near done with this fight!
Big thank-you to Two Arrows(Doug Orton) for this lead.
Post by: Ray Hammond on June 15, 2006, 03:23:00 PM
I know this is going to sound silly, but NO, I don't believe the anti's came up with this at all.
A hunter came up with the POD, a hunter came up with a GPS-rigged arrow so you could locate game, man hunters have come up with enough crap to make themselves look bad over the last 50 years to fill a big warehouse.
We are our own worst enemy. This Farbman guy likely believes that what he is doing is so cool, so important to the future of hunting...there are delusional people in every walk of life...there are people who don't think past their noses in every walk of life, there are people who do think past their noses but their brains are warped....
we can't blame this on anyone but ourselves and the crazy people who are running the asylums. :scared: :banghead:
Post by: holadude on June 15, 2006, 03:30:00 PM
Post by: Jake H on June 15, 2006, 04:01:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 15, 2006, 04:03:00 PM
Post by: Drifter on June 15, 2006, 04:18:00 PM
That's great news about the NFAA!!
Has anyone heard anything from the Sportsman's Alliance? I emailed all the top executives and haven't heard a thing.
http://www.ussportsmen.org/interactive/features/Read1.cfm?ID=42
Post by: vermonster13 on June 15, 2006, 04:20:00 PM
Post by: JasonV on June 15, 2006, 04:40:00 PM
http://www.census.gov/prod/3/98pubs/mifhw698.pdf
Looks like $1.8 billion by Michigan residents spent on hunting specifically.
5 billion by residents and nonreidents combined on "wildlife-associated activities"
The combined hunting numbers (resident + nonresident) is in there somewhere but I didn't get a chance to find it...
Post by: joel smith on June 15, 2006, 04:44:00 PM
Post by: JasonV on June 15, 2006, 04:50:00 PM
http://georgiawildlife.dnr.state.ga.us/assets/documents/Hunting%20Economic%20Impact%202001.pdf
You're absolutely right Joel.
I think alot of us are already doing this (I have) - but most people trying to fight this may be too busy sending the e-mails to get back tot he thread here frequently.
Its a good reminder though...
Post by: MI_Bowhunter on June 15, 2006, 04:53:00 PM
More info can be found at the MI DNR web site: http://www.michigan.gov/dnr
Post by: vermonster13 on June 15, 2006, 04:58:00 PM
"I just got off the phone with Jay McAninch from ATA and, while their "official" statement has yet to be released, they are concerned and working to make contact with all involved. They haven't been able to meet with this Farber guy yet. They've made contact, but that's it."
Amazing how so many on the board were slated to be sponsors, but they have a hard time having a sit down with this guy. Hopefully things will develop better in the near future here.
Post by: et on June 15, 2006, 05:22:00 PM
et
Post by: non-typical on June 15, 2006, 05:29:00 PM
a seperate thread might not be a bad idea. You would be suprised how much a "thank you" means to folks who spend a good part of their energy each day fielding complaints or solving problems.
Post by: jindydiver on June 15, 2006, 05:40:00 PM
:)
----------------------------------------------
Thank you for your E-Mail. We appreciate feedback from our customers and value their opinions.
Pneu-Dart has not entered into any formal agreements with the WHA nor do we intend to at this time. As with any customer, we hope the WHA will do everything in its power to put the animals best interest first.
Sincerely,
Donna
[email protected]
Customer Service
Post by: vermonster13 on June 15, 2006, 06:09:00 PM
To our customers, vendors, and conservation partners;
We have received many e-mails and phone calls regarding the World Hunting Association. Be assured that we will not be involved with the WHA in any way and will encourage our vendors and partners to do the same.
We do not support drugging of these magnificent game animals nor do we support making hunting a professional tournament.
At Bass Pro Shops we believe in the traditional methods of hunting and passing on the heritage of this great sport to future generations.
Sincerely,
Bass Pro Shops
Larry Whiteley
Manager of Corporate Public Relations
Post by: Ben Tiller on June 15, 2006, 06:17:00 PM
ben
Post by: TBone07 on June 15, 2006, 07:12:00 PM
Post by: John Nail on June 15, 2006, 07:18:00 PM
It would be great if you'd post a list of the email addresses of people we need to congratulate.
Post by: Texasrecurve on June 15, 2006, 07:32:00 PM
TR
Post by: vermonster13 on June 15, 2006, 08:39:00 PM
We don't have an "official" position written in stone, but for the purpose of your request, you may quote us as, "At this time, the National Shooting Sports Foundation does not support WHA or its tournament hunting concept. NSSF supports traditional, fair-chase hunting, with its indelible ties to conservation, wildlife management, family values and venison on the table."
I hope this helps.
Best,
Glenn (Sapir)
Post by: vermonster13 on June 15, 2006, 08:41:00 PM
The U.S. Sportsmen’s Alliance will have no part of the organization
http://www.ussportsmen.org/interacti...ad.cfm?ID=1804
USSA Statement on New Tournament Hunting Organization - (06/15) National
A new tournament hunting organization has been announced. It will outfit tournament participants with tranquilizing drugs and darting equipment. The U.S. Sportsmen’s Alliance has concerns about:
* The potential for misuse of dangerous drugs by lay people,
* The potential for their misuse in the case of unrecovered animals,
* Their impact on non-target species who might feed on carcasses,
* The scattering in the field of syringes that could be found by children,
* A competition that treats wildlife solely as a commercial commodity.
There appear to be a number of legal issues to be overcome (IE. the distribution to participants of drugs tightly controlled by the Food and Drug Administration).
The U.S. Sportsmen’s Alliance will have no part of the organization.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Information on this website can be reprinted with a citation to the U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance and www.ussportsmen.org (http://www.ussportsmen.org)
Post by: Ray Hammond on June 15, 2006, 08:42:00 PM
You are right...thank you's are just as important as the calls for help.consider it done.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 15, 2006, 08:59:00 PM
Actually anyone can PM me for info. It just needs to stay in PM when I share it. Fair enough?
Post by: One eye on June 15, 2006, 09:44:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by vermonster13:If I am not mistaken, the Governor of Michigan recently transferred jurisdiction of captive cervid herds to the DNR from the Department of Agriculture due to their mismanagement of the current regulations. So, I believe the Michigan DNR does have a say in this whole fiasco.
from what i've learned so far, Michigan and Colorado are the only two states where this can take place here. The animals are considered livestock inside fenced opperations and they are using the excuse that these deer are tranqued once a year already for innoculations. They will have a vet present for revivals. seems that using a blunt tipped with a tranq would still be an excessive means of doing this and should be considered abuse. It is illegal for this to take place with wild deer everywhere. They are holding up jobs and other enticements for the legislatures to pull this off. The Wildlife Department's hands are tied because they are doing these events inside a fence. The Agriculture Departments of these states have jurisdiction. so perhaps some letters sent there will have some effect.
[email protected]
http://www.ag.state.co.us/complaints/comment.html
I do not believe it should get that far. Hunters should unite and simply make it unbearable and economically disastrous for any company or individual that partakes of this abmomination.
Dan
Post by: vermonster13 on June 15, 2006, 11:12:00 PM
Bowtech
Martin
Bear
Hoyt
PSE
ETC etc, I'll try to get e-mail addresses and such tomorrow. If anyone has time before then please post them here.
Also word of advice, don't include in your letter "I'm a trad archer and will never buy your product anyways, but" Know what I mean?
Thanks in advance guys.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 15, 2006, 11:31:00 PM
Post by: Lashbow on June 15, 2006, 11:55:00 PM
This crap can not Happen!!!!
Post by: mikecc on June 16, 2006, 12:17:00 AM
Post by: Glenn29 on June 16, 2006, 07:42:00 AM
Post by: Rob DiStefano on June 16, 2006, 07:52:00 AM
Post by: AZStickman on June 16, 2006, 08:27:00 AM
Post by: Ray Hammond on June 16, 2006, 08:43:00 AM
I think you guys need to do a top of the page ALERT- ALL MEMBERS READ THIS THREAD type of thing...I am not really excited by 683 out of 9000...I know not everyone comes to the site every day but in a week you would think a lot more than 683 would visit and see this going on..
Post by: Terry Green on June 16, 2006, 08:58:00 AM
This thread is getting read....it has remained the most viewed topic since it started, and hasn't even come close to getting only half way down the page.
Let me see what we can do.
Post by: MI_Bowhunter on June 16, 2006, 08:58:00 AM
--------------------------------------------------
Subject: RE: Concerns over the WHA
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 17:13:20 -0400
From: "Story, Rick"
Mike –
The so-called WHA has a long way to go before it’s a reality. For one thing, we’re not sure how it thinks it will circumvent state and federal laws that tightly control the use of drugs commonly used to tranquilize deer or other large mammals.
I wouldn’t lose any sleep over it. I’m sure not.
801 Kingsmill Parkway
Columbus, OH 43229
614/888-4868 Ext. 216
Fax 614/888-0326
Rick Story
[email protected]
Sr. Vice President & Secretary
www.ussportsmen.org (http://www.ussportsmen.org)
Post by: John Scifres on June 16, 2006, 09:00:00 AM
Post by: Terry Green on June 16, 2006, 09:06:00 AM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 16, 2006, 09:20:00 AM
Martin 1-509-529-2186
Hoyt 1-801-537-1470
Bear 1-866-556-2754
PSE 1-520-884-9065
Post by: John Scifres on June 16, 2006, 09:30:00 AM
Post by: BigRonHuntAlot on June 16, 2006, 10:15:00 AM
Matthews Inc
919 River Road
PO Box 367
Sparta WI 54656
Phone {608}269-2728
These guys are some MAJOR players in the compound scene.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 16, 2006, 10:22:00 AM
Also all Michigan members, we need you to start contacting your local, state and federal representatives. We may need a law on the books to stop this now. The DNR has no official position on this kind of "hunting" so we need to give them one.
Post by: Ray Hammond on June 16, 2006, 10:52:00 AM
We probably have a couple thousand doing it. Sorry, wasn't thinking straight. :knothead: :thumbsup:
Post by: vermonster13 on June 16, 2006, 10:57:00 AM
Director 517-373-2329
Chief of Staff 517-373-2329
Chief Deputy 517-373-2425
Resource Management Deputy 517-373-0046
Legislative Liaison 517-373-0023
Natural Resources Commission 517-373-2352
Post by: vermonster13 on June 16, 2006, 11:21:00 AM
We all need to contact our own DNRs, Senators and Congressman to bring some pressure to bear against Michigan. They are passing the buck around to much there right now and I must admit that I am a little nervous folks.
Post by: Emmons on June 16, 2006, 11:27:00 AM
First I want to say thank you to everyone fighting this fight.
I contacted PSE today as I have so friends there. They are not involved in an form for or against at this point. We need to send the information to [email protected].
Hope this helps,
James
Post by: vermonster13 on June 16, 2006, 11:29:00 AM
Everyone needs to pour it on to PSE! They are the largest of the compound bow manufacturers dollar wise.
Also I was just told that Ross archery will have no part of this and I am awaiting there official Release.
Post by: Terry Green on June 16, 2006, 11:43:00 AM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 16, 2006, 11:48:00 AM
James that e-mail address is no good. Could you check it please and let me have any other you might have?
Post by: kawika b on June 16, 2006, 11:57:00 AM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 16, 2006, 12:04:00 PM
Pope & Young Club Nixes
Proposed “Hunt” Tournament
CHATFIELD, MN — A recent announcement by the World Hunting Association has raised significant concerns within the Pope and Young Club. According to WHA publicity releases, a televised tournament series featuring “professional hunters” is slated for broadcast this coming fall. Competitors reportedly will seek to tranquilize deer within high-fence game farm properties. Lucrative prizes are to be awarded to individuals collecting the biggest or most captive deer during televised “hunts.” Both bows and firearms will be used to deliver the tranquilizing agents.
“Hunting is not a ‘catch and release’ proposition,” said P&Y President M. R. James. “Nor is it intended to be an entertaining public spectacle. The Pope and Young Club certainly does not want its organization identified with this type of commercial endeavor, either directly or indirectly. That includes any reference to P&Y-class animals or the use of our measuring system to determine the score of captive deer. This idea flies in the face of the ethical, Fair Chase bowhunting challenges our organization embraces.”
Noting that the Pope and Young Club does not accept captive animals as record book entries, Executive Secretary Kevin Hisey added: “The idea that this concept is just plain wrong goes well beyond the issue of game farms and high fences. Many responsible hunters will view it as an affront to the values, principles and integrity of hunting so many hold dear.”
Post by: Glenn29 on June 16, 2006, 12:09:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 16, 2006, 12:11:00 PM
We also need for all Michigan members to really start jumping on their politicians and everyone else to start contacting their own.
This is real important, if you want explicit reasons why PM me.
Post by: BigRonHuntAlot on June 16, 2006, 12:48:00 PM
Post by: Emmons on June 16, 2006, 01:03:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 16, 2006, 01:04:00 PM
Michigan
Colorado
Kansas
To keep you aware of possible venues folks.
Post by: MI_Bowhunter on June 16, 2006, 02:21:00 PM
So far I've sent mails to the Governers office, DNR, Legislative representatives, MBH, .... Anyone I can think off ...
If anyone has a specific local (MI) official, office or business that I can target as a resident let me know.
For local offices we should get as many people in the respective states as possible to write/call in.
Post by: Marvin M. on June 16, 2006, 02:21:00 PM
If we start from the bottom instead of the top, we still might be able to do some good with them. I know that they are already on the WorldHunt web site for giving away an ATV, but maybe we can shake them up a little by going to the local dealers.
Post by: Redfeathers on June 16, 2006, 02:59:00 PM
Brent
Post by: Terry Green on June 16, 2006, 03:16:00 PM
We are covered up at the moment sir. :readit:
Post by: Terry Green on June 16, 2006, 03:33:00 PM
This thread at the moment is better served not being stuck at the top....aint got time to explain sir!....I'll try to later. :wavey:
Post by: vermonster13 on June 16, 2006, 05:09:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 16, 2006, 05:32:00 PM
Thank you for your thoughtful inquiry.
Regards,
George
George A. Bettas
Executive Director
Boone and Crockett Club
250 Station Drive
Missoula, MT 59801
( 406-542-1888 ext. 206
Fax 406-542-0784
* [email protected]
Post by: Ray Hammond on June 16, 2006, 07:50:00 PM
I hope they are all beginning to understand that this thing is close to being out of our hands, Vermonster.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 16, 2006, 08:33:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 16, 2006, 09:56:00 PM
A new tournament hunting organization has been announced, the World Hunting Organization. It will outfit tournament participants with tranquilizing drugs and darting equipment. The U.S. Sportsmen’s Alliance has concerns about:
* The potential for misuse of dangerous drugs by lay people,
* The potential for their misuse in the case of unrecovered animals,
* Their impact on non-target species who might feed on carcasses,
* The scattering in the field of syringes that could be found by children,
* A competition that treats wildlife solely as a commercial commodity.
There appear to be a number of legal issues to be overcome (IE. the distribution to participants of drugs tightly controlled by the Food and Drug Administration).
The U.S. Sportsmen’s Alliance will have no part of the organization.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 16, 2006, 10:20:00 PM
http://www.nypost.com/sports/hunting_tour_has_no_shot_sports_ken_moran.htm
Post by: Timberghost on June 16, 2006, 11:08:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 17, 2006, 10:00:00 AM
http://www.basspro.com/servlet/catalog.CFPage?appID=34&template=news_display.cfm&newsID=179
Post by: kennym on June 17, 2006, 01:40:00 PM
Post by: Steve Kendrot on June 17, 2006, 04:59:00 PM
Vmonster...your quite the activist. I'm impressed with the response you've motivated. I have some ideas for other organizations that might be approached if this thing appears to approach anything close to reality..
Steve
Post by: Ray Hammond on June 17, 2006, 08:15:00 PM
What are your thoughts?
Post by: aussiebowhunter on June 17, 2006, 08:49:00 PM
we have also been emailing to the sponsors that were with them,and now we see they have all left,so have also sent thanku s
keep up the fight
pat
australia
Post by: bayoulongbowman on June 17, 2006, 08:52:00 PM
Post by: Terry Green on June 17, 2006, 08:53:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 17, 2006, 10:17:00 PM
I am going to be posting a new thread real soon. I want this one to keep working as it is, but there are some things that need to be shared and need to be seen.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 17, 2006, 11:23:00 PM
Brett Hankins
http://www.midwestgiantsoutfitters.com/About_us.html
Post by: Texasrecurve on June 18, 2006, 03:53:00 AM
TR
Post by: SteveB on June 18, 2006, 08:01:00 AM
I am sure midwest knows - another one of their guides, Mitch Haroldson, is "big country" and is one of the few actively defending this elsewhere.
Was wondering why until I see they both work for the same outfit.
Steve
Post by: SteveB on June 18, 2006, 08:04:00 AM
Steve
Post by: vermonster13 on June 18, 2006, 03:35:00 PM
Post by: flrecurve on June 18, 2006, 08:33:00 PM
I don't personally see this being the ultimate end of bow hunting or hunting in general. Man has always been competiting between each other.
I also would like to include; I have no interest in the WHA
Post by: JasonV on June 18, 2006, 09:23:00 PM
Hunting is not catch and release, even suggesting that it is cheapens the sport and adds fuel to the antis... they've been suggesting for years that we use animals as nothing more than moving targets for our own entertainment - now this jackass wants to prove them right.
The commercialism alone turns my stomach - I posted this before but I'll cut and paste:
_____________________________________________
I think its been stated many times before, but it bears repeating:
THE WHA ISN'T HUNTING.
Its prostituting our hunting heritage in an attempt to make a few men wealthy.
Just look at the promo video on the WHA website:
The "comissioner" sounds like a pitch-man for professional wrestling. Claiming that he and his obscene b@stardization of hunting are "the future of hunting".
The anti-hunting organizations have claimed for years that we hunters are guilty of using game animals as nothing more than interactive targets - now this joker wants to prove them right!!!!!!
Watch the video: the "hunter" draws on a whitetail then closes his eyes to imagine the piles of cash, the sportscars, the mansion, and the handful of "buck-bimbos" walking toward him across a food-plot as the wind blows their hair back seductively - then he opens his eyes and shoots.
Is there really a single hunter here who doesn't find that very image vile and repulsive? Isn't killing a trophy-class deer in and of itself reward enough?
Have the fee-for-trophy hunting farms so effectively diminished the meaning of a trophy whitetail, that it is now nothing more than a means to an end?
Do we really think we need to attract new hunters with the promise of fame, fortune, and loose women?????? Is THIS what we want them to think hunting is all about?
If this abomination comes to pass, I feel a great sense of loss for all the new "hunters" Mr Fabram brings to the fold. Even if some poor kid from inner-city Detroit becomes his next deer-darting superstar, complete with fame, fortune, and women - the poor kid will never know the true exhileration of real hunting. He's the one who will really lose in the long run.
Am I bashing fellow hunters?
Nope.
These guys may have hunted before - but the WHA isn't hunting - and no true hunter would ever prositute his hunting heritage for something as worthless as handfuls of money.
They aren't hunters.
-----------------------------------------------
Obviously everyone is entitled to their own opinion on this thing, but I think if any hunter really looks into this and evaluates it critically, they'll realize that this could never benefit hunting and could potentially (I think almost certainly) do alot of harm....
Post by: vermonster13 on June 18, 2006, 09:48:00 PM
Now they want to give these "hunters" tranquilizers, turn hunting into a living 3D tournament. The shots that are most effective are hind-quarter and meaty area shots. This will be represented as hunting to their target audience of nonhunters. How often have you seen children emulate the WWF or other entertainment? Do we want them doing the same with broadheads? These drugs won't be available to the common hunter, yet it will be represented as hunting to these newbies they want to draw into the sport.
The antis will be shown by "some of the best hunters in the world" that hunting is all about the trophy. Dart them, score them. take a few pictures then revive them and send them on their way. Their is no conservation, wildlife management or respect for the animals. they only exist to feed the hunters ego. So why do we even need real hunting anymore? The fact that only the very wealthy will ever have this opportunity only helps in decreasing hunter recruitment and retainment.
Think on this for a while, if you need more reasons why this shouldn't happen, feel free to ask.
Post by: Timberghost on June 18, 2006, 09:51:00 PM
Post by: Don Thomas on June 18, 2006, 11:05:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 19, 2006, 08:28:00 AM
Post by: holadude on June 19, 2006, 10:11:00 AM
Post by: ChuckC on June 19, 2006, 10:24:00 AM
These are animal drugs, they are regulated by the FDA, and others. There is / are currently NO APPROVED tranquilizers for deer, captive or oterwise. Any use of tranquilizers for deer would come under the AMDUCA (Act) which was meant to allow veterinarians the ability to prescribe and use medications (for animals) that are not approved for a particular use, since, in many cases there are not ANY approved for particular use in certain animals.
Hunting use would not fall under the AMDUCA criteria.
Technically speaking, using the drugs for hunting is illegal on the federal level, even with a veterinarian's prescription.
Not certain FDA would jump into this and get involved, but it is an illegal use of the drugs.
Chuck
Post by: vermonster13 on June 19, 2006, 10:49:00 AM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 19, 2006, 11:48:00 AM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 19, 2006, 02:20:00 PM
Post by: DeanD on June 19, 2006, 02:53:00 PM
I just wanted to pause for a minute (but only a minute) and tell you personally, "thank you."
Every Army needs a General and, my friend, you are that General. But so much more. I, even though I live in Michigan, would never have read about or thought about the WHA unless Don Thomas, you (and others here) had brought it to my attention.
Now that I know and understand what this heinous organization is about I have been able to formulate lucid arguments and send them or say them to all the Michigan constituency that you have listed from the Governor on down (including Bob Farbman).
Thank you for standing on the front line and yelling "CHARGE"! Thank you for pushing us to "take this hill."
May you be richly rewarded but as most leaders I'm sure you already are.
Bless you.
Dean
Post by: vermonster13 on June 19, 2006, 03:46:00 PM
http://www.naturalgear.com/
Post by: vermonster13 on June 19, 2006, 04:08:00 PM
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE June 19, 2006
CONTACT: Dennis R. Ballard
PHONE: (573) 696-3202
North American Bowhunting Coalition Rejects “Hunting” Contest
The World Hunting Association has announced that it has developed a “non-fatal” hunting technique that would be utilized in televised captive big game “hunting” competitions. This proposal has generated a firestorm of criticism from the nation’s hunters.
Among the leading critics is the North American Bowhunting Coalition (NABC) that represents more than 80 state and provincial-level bowhunting associations.
According to WHA publicity releases, competitors called “professional hunters” would compete with one another for prize money by “hunting” deer and other animals that were confined in escape-proof enclosures with gun or bow. Drug laden projectiles, darts from guns or arrows from bows, would tranquilize the animal upon being hit and, thus, would be scored as a “kill”.
“The shooting of game animals within high fenced enclosures is a questionable practice in its own right,” said Denny Ballard, Chairman of the NABC. “Adding drug-tipped projectiles to the process and the public spectacle of “hunters’ gloating over the paralyzed body of a deer would do irreparable harm to ethical hunting. It is contrary to why we hunt. Hunting is a time honored tradition and should not be a competition between humans.”
Most hunters, the NABC feels, abide by fair chase hunting rules as their guide.
Wild game animals respectfully hunted are the products of natural selection as the result of sportsmen-supported conservation programs.
The NABC is strongly opposed to the tranquilizing of captive game animals, as though it were hunting, and to the World Hunting Association’s intent to conduct televised captive game animal competitive “hunts” for monetary prizes. This entire concept is an affront to the fair chase standards accepted by today’s hunters.
Post by: Huntschool on June 19, 2006, 04:33:00 PM
Sirs:
It is with much concern that I write you regarding your tacit involvement in the WHA. It would seem one of your sponsored/Pro Staff shooters is on line to participate in this grossly unethical activity.
I am a teaching and practicing wildlife biologist. I have the only programs of their kind in the US. I train commercial hunting property managers and shooting complex managers. I have numerous graduates working in the field and using your products. I have in the past endorsed your product of my own volition because I thought it was the best pattern out there for my type of archery hunting. I fear I will no longer be able to do this based on the fact one of your Staffer's is going to be involved in the travesty that is WHA.
Please bring any power that you can to bear against your participation, directly or indirectly in this event.
Before I speak with my graduates, current student and friends, I will await your reply.
I remain,
Bruce A. Hering
Program Coordinator/Instructor
Game Preserve/Shooting Complex Mgt.
Southeastern Illinois College
NSCA Level III
Post by: BigRonHuntAlot on June 19, 2006, 04:53:00 PM
Post by: Ray Hammond on June 19, 2006, 09:18:00 PM
There's a firestorm on the horizon- its called the WHA- a roman-gladiator spectacle of deer in high fenced enclosures being shot with tranquilizer darts from bows and guns- for prize money, sleazy chicks, cars, and homes- that will apparently be seen by folks on television this coming October.
You are now going to be caught up in the middle of that firestorm because of your association with Brett Hankins- aka DARKARCHER on the web, to most of us.
The shooting of game animals within high fenced enclosures is a questionable practice in its own right and adding drug-tipped projectiles to the process and the public spectacle of “hunters’ gloating over the paralyzed body of a deer will do irreparable harm to ethical hunting. It is contrary to why we hunt. Hunting is a time honored tradition and should not be a competition between humans.”
Most hunters abide by fair chase hunting rules as their guide. Wild game animals respectfully hunted are the products of natural selection as the result of sportsmen-supported conservation programs. This entire concept is an affront to the fair chase standards accepted by today’s hunters.
As one of the troops on the front lines in a fight to keep this from happening, I regret to inform you that I will purchase no more product from NatGear...and all those I have influence over will not purchase any NatGear products. Additionally, I will be informing our network of activists of your decision to continue to employ this person on your staff and they will likely be doing the same as I.
I like your product, but it is my considered opinion that Mr. Farbman, Matt Moore, and their minions(Brett Hankins among them) will be doing irreparable damage to the future of bowhunting in North America with their poorly-devised scheme.
Mr. Farbman is a condo developer, not a hunter, and apparently has visions of hundreds of high-fenced venues across the country, surrounded by luxury condos, restaurants, and night clubs, where great white hunters can come from the big city and "tag" their bucks, using of course the approved tools like Matthews bows, pneuma dart tranquilizer darts, and maybe NatGear?
Mr. Farbman will likely become very wealthy from this. The rest of us will be standing around twiddling our thumbs when hunting as we know it has disappeared in America, replaced by this farce.
Do what you will- I'm fighting for our future!
Best wishes,
Ray Hammond
Post by: JC on June 19, 2006, 09:24:00 PM
Honestly, when this all first started, I was somewhat "oh well" with my attitude....I really didn't think we could make as much of a difference so quickly. I am glad to say I was wrong, and you all have given me renewed hope in our fight as sportsman. Thank you....for the hope that we really can make a difference....
Post by: Ben Tiller on June 20, 2006, 11:21:00 AM
If you read these posts, you will find that what they are planning is illegal on many different fronts.
ben
Post by: vermonster13 on June 20, 2006, 11:25:00 AM
Read through this entire thread and see if your oppinion on this remains the same. I have yet to have someone not involved with the WHA who hunts that when appraised of the entire issue not become against this fiasco.
Post by: Terry Green on June 20, 2006, 11:38:00 AM
Post by: Huntschool on June 20, 2006, 11:39:00 AM
Post by: Ben Tiller on June 20, 2006, 11:40:00 AM
ben
Post by: vermonster13 on June 20, 2006, 12:24:00 PM
Post by: Huntschool on June 20, 2006, 12:41:00 PM
When did you hear this from Nat Gear. Their CEO Leland Sikes is supposed to be out of town until Monday. When I called down there yesterday afternoon there was no one of the executive staff supposedly there
Post by: vermonster13 on June 20, 2006, 12:54:00 PM
Post by: Huntschool on June 20, 2006, 01:39:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 20, 2006, 01:48:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 20, 2006, 01:52:00 PM
http://www.naturalgear.com/news/news.asp?ID=13&Section=News%20Article
Give these guys some Kudos for doing more than talking.
Post by: Huntschool on June 20, 2006, 02:01:00 PM
Mr. Leland Sikes and all at Natural Gear:
As a follow up to my previous emails regarding WHA and one of your sponsored shooters, I just want to let you know my appreciation of you statement and actions in this regard.
It is company's like yours which will be in the forefront of hunting preservation efforts and as an outcome will be respected and patronized by the hunting community.
I, for one, will continue to personally buy your product and also continue to suggest it to my students and associates.
Thank you for your actions. I remain
Post by: Ray Hammond on June 20, 2006, 02:11:00 PM
I contacted them last evening and actually got a response from John early this morning.
I believe that a two pronged effort of going after the "professional hunters" selected as participants for this event and getting their pro staff status pulled by all manufacturers- and the attack that Vermonster is working on from a legal standpoint, will end this better than anything else we can do.
Can anyone identify any other "hunters" in this deal and do you know who they are staffing for? Let's redouble our efforts.
Post by: MI_Bowhunter on June 20, 2006, 02:49:00 PM
Keep snooping if you have contacts, they can't hide forever.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 20, 2006, 03:10:00 PM
Post by: joel smith on June 20, 2006, 05:07:00 PM
Post by: IB on June 20, 2006, 07:20:00 PM
Post by: Ray Hammond on June 20, 2006, 08:41:00 PM
Here is what I posted behind one of those fellows.
The difficulty with this is there is NO WAY to do this without causing problems for hunting.
Let's say it goes PERFECTLY, without a hitch.
What happens then? The antis begin a campaign full of choice little film snippets showing the promo clip on the WHA website...a guy has a big buck approaching..and you see what he is thinking- cars, ho's, houses...then he makes the shot, baby! Then they interlace some choice commentary on how they have been telling the world for years that hunters are nothing but USERS- using poor, defenseless, prisoner deer to achieve stardom, and get hot babes, cars and cash!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let's say, just for argument's sake, that there's a hitch in darting, and one of the HERO bucks...that some little kid in New York City has been cheering for like the good little liberal vegatarian his mommy raised him to be(of course he lives in a one parent household)- gets stabbed in the lungs with this trank dart and DIES. How are they going to SPIN that? Its a likely possibility you know. Vets standing by or not..and I don't think they will get most vets to sign up for this...its USING animals for entertainment and at the same time endangering their lives...a vet might lose his license since this would in practice violate the very oath they took to become vets.
Let's say it goes beautifully, as Farbman hopes and SWEEPS the nation. Every household has watched it like American Idol. What will happen next? Think! These guys don't kill the deer, why do YOU need to kill deer? You're a barbarian..that can be the only reason. Let's have a vote- everyone against hunting in the country stand up and raise your voice- AYE AYE!!! No need for what we do. We can pay Farbman a couple grand once a year to trank a deer and have our picture taken, right?
See where this is going? There is no win for us- only for Farbman and his partners. The hunting industry? Losers. Except for the companies that get on board with approved equipment...and let's face it, you cant use YOUR eqipment..it takes special stuff to use these trank darts.
You need to be careful what you wish for..you might get it.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 20, 2006, 10:54:00 PM
Thanks again for everyone's efforts here. Many sites have already let this go and you would be surprised at howm many people have told me that they are sick of hearing about it. We can't let up, the future of hunting is at stake.
Post by: Terry Green on June 20, 2006, 10:57:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 20, 2006, 11:06:00 PM
Post by: Texasrecurve on June 21, 2006, 12:22:00 AM
TR
Post by: joel smith on June 21, 2006, 09:33:00 AM
Post by: Arrow4Christ on June 21, 2006, 09:42:00 AM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 21, 2006, 10:21:00 AM
[email protected]
Post by: vermonster13 on June 21, 2006, 11:36:00 AM
This will be published shortly on the Hunting Solutions (Millinneum TreeStands) website.
From the desk of Bill Alexander, President
Recently, we were made aware of an attempt to establish an organization, which we feel would be detrimental to the future of hunting.
The World Hunting Association proposal is far from anything we would ever be able to support.
As a responsible member of the hunting industry community, we would encourage others to consider their position on this issue carefully, and join us in this stance.
Hunting Solutions
2486 Commercial Drive
Pearl, MS 39208
www.huntingsolutionsusa.com (http://www.huntingsolutionsusa.com)
Tel: 601-932-5832
Fax: 601-932-0068
Post by: vermonster13 on June 21, 2006, 03:22:00 PM
http://www.outdoorlife.com/outdoor/news/article/0,19912,1206473,00.html
Post by: joel smith on June 21, 2006, 05:01:00 PM
Post by: Buckscout on June 21, 2006, 06:19:00 PM
I would also like to see guys like Bill Jordan of Realtree and Toxy Haas of Mossy Oak come out with some statements as well. Seems to me that all hunting related manufacturers need to step up too. Let's face it, the WHA is going to need a whole lot more clout come out against it than we bowhunters.
(Although I like to think that Dave and the rest of us tradgangers have caused a pretty good stir, in getting the ball rolling!!!)
Post by: 42WLA on June 21, 2006, 07:10:00 PM
Thursday, June 02, 2005
By Bick Treut
Brothers Karl and Dave Zainitzer of West Amwell Township and good friend Paul Lee of Stewartsville share a passion for hunting.
And for years, the three landscapers who work at different firms in the area considered getting into the hunting industry. They thought about opening a hunting store but didn't like the idea of being cooped up inside.
Then the idea struck.
A year ago, they bought three video cameras including a $5,500 Cannon XL2 mini digital video camera and entered the hunting video production business. They founded Xtreme Outdoors by recognizing that the Northeast "never really gets the recognition it deserves as a hunting region," said Karl Zainitzer, 36. His brother is 33, Lee is 37.
They considered the idea for about a year "game planning, trying to figure out when and how to get into it" he said. "I tried to get into the industry by using other larger video companies but they were unresponsive. So we decided, why not do it ourselves?"
For now, Xtreme Outdoors is a sideline but all indications are it could become the trio's full-time gig.
Their first video, Xtreme Whitetails One, will be released shortly and they project sales of 5,000 to 10,000 units, according Zainitzer. Orders are flying in from local and regional sporting goods chains and retail behemoth Wal-Mart expressed interest in the title, he said.
There seems to be a large untapped market. With all of the people who hunt in New Jersey, Pennsylvania and New York "most of the video industry coverage is in the Midwest and the west," said Karl Zainitzer.
Xtreme Outdoors plans to release one new video per year.
"Right now we're busy wrapping up the editing (of their first video)" he said. "We've just sent it to be duplicated and we finished the DVD cover. We're also very busy with the marketing side of things."
The company hired a professional editor to put together the final cut but the principals do all the camera work themselves. "With outdoor film, shaky footage is ok," said Zainitzer. "It gives people a better feel for hunting so we mount the camera on our shoulder instead of using tripods."
Xtreme Outdoors doesn't like to do cutaways. "When there's a split in the scene, people realize it's not real. We try to keep both the animal and the hunter in the same shot. We also do a lot of panning back and forth," he said.
The company has assembled 22 videographers in New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Wisconsin, Kentucky and Ohio for up coming videos. "They tend to go out in pairs," Zainitzer said. "One person hunts and the other holds the camera."
Long term, Xtreme Outdoors plans on assembling annual turkey and big game hunt videos. "We're talking about elk, caribou and bear. We're also going to put a guy in Africa," Zainitzer said.
For more information on Xtreme Outdoors, visit their Web site at xtremeoutdoorspro.com or call 347-3366.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 21, 2006, 07:12:00 PM
Post by: 42WLA on June 21, 2006, 07:13:00 PM
XO is "Taking Fair Chase Hunting To The Xtreme"
ironic huh? :confused:
Post by: Ted A. Young on June 21, 2006, 07:23:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 21, 2006, 07:27:00 PM
Post by: 42WLA on June 21, 2006, 07:41:00 PM
You are right if they are so proud to be associated with this organization they should be standing up for it not relying on moderators to protect them by quashing debate.
Every decision comes with consequences. They should have made a better decision. Now they have to live with it unless they change their minds. I don’t think it is too late for that.
Post by: kawika b on June 21, 2006, 07:47:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 21, 2006, 07:47:00 PM
Post by: Terry Green on June 22, 2006, 08:48:00 AM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 22, 2006, 10:33:00 AM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 22, 2006, 10:56:00 AM
If you are going to be part of a group that claims they will redefine hunting and bring in a nontraditional market by making it more palatable by not killing, then you had best bring some supporting evidence. The WHA has yet to answer any of the questions they asked for me to collect for them on another site. they released a statement that they will answer some stuff in the future and that we should just pretty much trust them.
These guys want to do something that is illegal and that is being addressed. They also claim that most hunters agree with this league, untrue. They claim they will do a lot for hunting by holding these events, I ask how? By reinforcing the image that hunters are only after a trophy, animals are toys for our amusement, and that killing isn't necessary in hunting? That FDA controlled substances are viable hunting tools? That high fence operations with unrealistic deer populations and sizes happen everywhere?
If all of these hunters are so sure this is the right thing to do, why aren't they out defending this event and giving us information to show us how good it is for hunting? Why all of the secrecy on the equipment and everything else?
It would be unethical for me to stand by and do nothing. I have refused to play this dirty and will continue to do so. I have received many requests for dirt and information I have found. I won't play that way. You guys don't even see a quarter of what is going on here. It isn't possible for me to put everything up and there are things I just won't put up.
As far as the names, they were coming out no matter what eventually. I posted them so we could try to identify more potential sponsors for this. Do you think that the WHA is going to reveal anymore until they absolutely have to after the backlash they have received from the majority of hunters?
I don't want to destroy any of these hunters livelihood, but I also don't want them destroying hunting as we know it. If they realize that this is as wrong as the majority of us have and would state so, I would be more than willing to help them get back any sponsors they have lost. But they have a responsibility to the their sponsors also.
I am not the bad guy here, I am the guy doing the work with others to protect hunting. I didn't sign on to the WHA, I didn't make claims that I have all the answers to "save hunting", and I am not trying to transform hunting into a spectacle. I am trying to save what we have and not have our own empower the very arguments we have been fighting against.
Post by: MI_Bowhunter on June 22, 2006, 11:09:00 AM
Post by: JasonV on June 22, 2006, 11:21:00 AM
Its interesting that you only hear opposition or silence... I've read many statements by companies and individuals "in the industry" which openly and strongly oppsose the WHA, but none supporting it openly.
This tells me one of two things:
1. that there are NO supporters, and as soon as a company, host, etc hears of the WHA they speak out against it - in which case we need to be sure everyone knows about the WHA and what it really intends
OR
2. there are supporters, but they are hiding bcz they are afraid of being openly associated with such a controversial proposal - in which case, we need to let them know that we are paying attention, and expect a stance one way or the other... if they are not willing to support the WHA openly now, they are very likely to withdraw their "secret" support when pushed to take a stand....
Either way, the e-mails, letters, and phone calls from guys just like us WILL determine the outcome.
Not to sound patronizing, but I'm very proud of the people here working so hard on this - both those "out front" and the multitude who are quietly writing and calling.
Keep up the good work - there is no question that this IS the right war to fight....
And if you happen to be quietly following this, but are not involved yet, take a few minutes to contact ANYONE who needs to be involved - whether its your friends and family, your local shop, or a major corporation - its well worth your time.
Post by: JasonV on June 22, 2006, 11:34:00 AM
Dave, I agree completely with releasing the names - and I am astounded that the other web-site wants to shield these guys. The biggest problem with web interaction is the anonymity - people feel they can say whatever they want because they don't have to personally stand by what they say - its a farce.
If these guys signed on without thinking it thru, then its time to stand up and say so, drop out, and join the rest of us.
If they still think its a good idea, then they have a duty to stand up and defend it.
Their silence makes me lose any shred of doubt I had about their integrity to this point.
They too are just trying to ride this out until they know how much money they will or won't make...
Post by: TBoone on June 22, 2006, 11:44:00 AM
Gone hunting, really!
Diane
Post by: MI_Bowhunter on June 22, 2006, 12:07:00 PM
My fear is that some of the bug guns that have not responded are just waiting for the initial firestorm to end and for everyone to loose focus so they can come out and make their big $$$$. Maybe they already have a vested interest?
Case in Point: Polaris still has an ad on the Worldhunt web site. I have still not gotten a response from Polaris nor have a seen one posted by anyone else.
We also cannot assume that just because a manufacturer has come out against it now that they won't change their mind down the road as things change. These are big businesses who are out to make to make big money.
We need to keep reinforcing to them that we as hunters, sportsmen, outdoorsmen, etc. will continue to support those that oppose the goals of the WHA and will continue to stop supporting anyone that does not. And we really need to stand behind our threats of non-support (Even if it means you have to switch from your favorite deer scent, broadhead, ATV manufacturer, candy bar, etc.)
[/RANT OFF]
I can't say enough about what an awesome job everyone here is doing.
Thanks from MI!
Post by: ChuckC on June 22, 2006, 12:11:00 PM
Chuck
Post by: 42WLA on June 22, 2006, 12:42:00 PM
WHA.
http://nugeboard.tednugent.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/258215.html
No statement on Ted's webpage that I can find either.
Post by: Ray Hammond on June 22, 2006, 02:24:00 PM
didn't even realize Uncle Ted wielded such power that mfr's considered his website the ultimate location to garner a good cross-sectional opinion of bowhunters. Wow. Good to know for future reference.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 22, 2006, 04:24:00 PM
Post by: StickBowManMI on June 22, 2006, 05:32:00 PM
Post by: todd secker on June 22, 2006, 06:01:00 PM
I saw a position letter the Sportmen's Alliance wrote. Does anyone know if they have actually tried sending it out to WHA and the sponsors, or did they just put it on their web site as a position?
Post by: Ray Hammond on June 22, 2006, 07:27:00 PM
Why don't you copy and paste that Sportsmans Alliance thing here so we can read it?
Post by: vermonster13 on June 22, 2006, 10:40:00 PM
A new tournament hunting organization has been announced, the World Hunting Organization. It will outfit tournament participants with tranquilizing drugs and darting equipment. The U.S. Sportsmen’s Alliance has concerns about:
* The potential for misuse of dangerous drugs by lay people,
* The potential for their misuse in the case of unrecovered animals,
* Their impact on non-target species who might feed on carcasses,
* The scattering in the field of syringes that could be found by children,
* A competition that treats wildlife solely as a commercial commodity.
There appear to be a number of legal issues to be overcome (IE. the distribution to participants of drugs tightly controlled by the Food and Drug Administration).
The U.S. Sportsmen’s Alliance will have no part of the organization.
Post by: joel smith on June 23, 2006, 07:17:00 AM
Post by: Texasrecurve on June 23, 2006, 12:47:00 PM
TR
Post by: todd secker on June 23, 2006, 01:26:00 PM
Post by: Texasrecurve on June 23, 2006, 01:51:00 PM
TR
Post by: Ray Hammond on June 23, 2006, 02:06:00 PM
Post by: todd secker on June 23, 2006, 03:06:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 23, 2006, 04:28:00 PM
"Contacting employers of these hunters outside the scope of the WHA and potential sponsors looking for positions is unacceptable. This is a hunting issue and needs to be kept within that framework. Harrassing or insulting these hunters is also stepping over the line. I think they have made a bad choice in signing onto the WHA and I believe this event needs to be stopped. These fellows made what I would consider a bad choice and that is my opinion, but I won't condone or support anyone taking this over into these men's personal lives.
I also believe that any of these hunters that reconsider this decision should be forgiven and accepted back by any sponsors they may have lost, and accepted back by the hunting community in general. everyone is allowed a mistake, but it takes character to admit and correct that mistake. I personally would be willing to help any of these fellows get any lost sponsors back if they were to honestly see the damage the WHA is poised to do in this format and state so.
Any WHA hunters who wish to share their side with me are welcomed to e-mail or pm me so long as they are willing to honestly consider my views too. The WHA is a mistake, I would like them to see the reasons why."
Post by: vermonster13 on June 23, 2006, 07:00:00 PM
Post by: Rob DiStefano on June 23, 2006, 08:13:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 23, 2006, 09:37:00 PM
Post by: freeman on June 23, 2006, 10:50:00 PM
Post by: Ray Hammond on June 23, 2006, 10:59:00 PM
What happened is that someone from another website has contacted the participants at their regular, daytime jobs, which have nothing to do with bowhunting or archery, and also is calling their homes and threatening them personally.
This is unacceptable behavior. We are above that sort of thing in this endeavor.
Contacting their archery sponsors, and discussing their participation in WHA events? Perfectly OK -that's where the focus should be...their participation in WHA does not mean we should be contacting their "day" jobs and harrassing their families at home, though. One of the participants little children took the brunt of someone's anger on the phone when the participant was not at home to take the call. That's going beyond the pale in my book and thats why David posted the above info.
I believe everyone needs to keep this thing in perspective.
Post by: non-typical on June 24, 2006, 06:30:00 AM
great post. Identify the particpation in WHA as unacceptable; refrain from personal attacks.
Post by: Pinecone on June 24, 2006, 08:21:00 AM
Claudia
Post by: Don Thomas on June 24, 2006, 11:39:00 AM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 24, 2006, 11:50:00 AM
I have a three year old son myself and if he was subjected to someones anger over this, I would be real hard to convince to listen to the opposing view also.
All I ask is that we keep our focus on the real enemy here, the WHA and sponsors of this fiasco.
I sent you a PM Don. You can e-mail and we can talk.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 24, 2006, 07:06:00 PM
Post by: Arrow4Christ on June 24, 2006, 07:21:00 PM
Post by: jindydiver on June 24, 2006, 07:47:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by vermonster13:I just thought I might point out that just because this video is only recently released doesn’t mean it is recently made. This video could very well have been made many months ago (and probably was) and it's release now doesn't necessarily infer that WHA is any closer to being reality that it was before it's release.
The WHA has a new video on their site with three of the "hunters" in it.
Keep the pressure on WHA and it's sponsors and it will die on the vine, an interesting but flawed concept that has caused great debate and helped remind many hunters of the core values of hunting.
Maybe when this is all over and the dust has settled we might find that hunting ethics have been strengthened by the debate.
Post by: Terry Green on June 24, 2006, 08:01:00 PM
Post by: Ray Hammond on June 24, 2006, 08:33:00 PM
I think thats about the best idea I've heard in a long time. Wonder how we could find their mailing addresses? I will pay for the videos if someone will get them ordered and sent to Terry.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 25, 2006, 09:37:00 AM
The other sites are really losing momentum on this WHA, so we really need to be the ones to carry the ball folks.
Post by: John Scifres on June 25, 2006, 02:42:00 PM
Post by: joel smith on June 25, 2006, 09:41:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 25, 2006, 10:40:00 PM
1-888-332-8387
Lets start calling folks. If the FDA comes out with a finding against this, the WHA is done in this format.
Post by: Texasrecurve on June 26, 2006, 02:41:00 AM
TR
Post by: todd secker on June 26, 2006, 10:48:00 AM
Post by: Mike Tomano on June 26, 2006, 11:10:00 AM
Pat Durkin column: Hunting tournament draws fire
Occasionally, someone floats an idea that's so flawed and inflammatory you almost feel sorry for its creator because it's also so doomed it will sink faster than an anchor without its rope.
That's how I felt last week when a flurry of e-mails poured in with curses, warnings and battle cries aimed at the World Hunting Association, whose founder, David Farbman of Michigan, had just announced plans for a competitive hunting tournament with cash prizes.
The outcry against WHA came not from anti-hunters or nonhunters. All came from hunters, those who know there's a huge difference between a high-stakes, commercially sponsored competition and an everyday "big buck" pool between co-workers.
As a group, outdoors enthusiasts might tolerate big-money tournaments for bass and walleyes, but when someone floats similar schemes for hunting, look out. Picture dipping your foot into a pond of starving piranhas.
The WHA, meanwhile, promised its events would "take hunting to a new level," and feature "the world's finest hunters competing for hundreds of thousands of dollars in prize money."
And — get this — the deer wouldn't die, at least intentionally. The "pro" hunters would shoot these fenced, game-farm critters with tranquilizer darts, and score points based on their size.
In a June 7 press release, WHA said its events would be broadcast via TV, the Internet, pay-per-view, on-demand and other outlets. It also said, "WHA plans to become the standard for professional hunting competition, and to grow and enhance the industry's image and presence."
Hmmm. Something tells me hunting's image needs a professional tournament circuit as much as FEMA's image needed Hurricane Katrina.
This idea is so hopeless I couldn't get upset when I read the press release. Why?
First, hunters need no prodding from me to get riled up. I knew their backlash would be so immediate, indignant and universal that no one in manufacturing or broadcasting would risk their business and reputation to such torment.
I recall a scheme in the late 1980s in which a promoter tried to get Wisconsin deer hunters to pay $100 entry fees to amass a multi-thousand dollar purse. Entrants would register their does and bucks at a parking lot in County Stadium in Milwaukee to be eligible to win large cash payouts for the biggest buck, biggest doe and so on.
Once the firestorm of hunter fury ran its course, the only sound to be heard was dry leaves skipping across the deserted stadium parking lot on opening day of deer season.
A couple of years later, a group in Missouri tried launching a deer-hunting competition and bought advertisements in national magazines. By coincidence, I started working for one of the magazines, Deer & Deer Hunting, a couple of weeks after the publishers ran that ad.
The readers' response was spectacular and righteous. They threatened mass cancellations and a boycott of every advertiser in the magazine if we repeated the ad.
Such visceral responses to hunting leagues, tournaments or any other commercial-inspired competitive hunt always will be there. Most people, and especially hunters, believe it's depraved to reduce wildlife to living, breathing raffle prizes.
However, when I consider some of the vicious e-mail and messages regarding the WHA's idea, I don't know what surprises me more, the WHA claim that a tournament and big-money prizes would bolster hunting's image, or the belief from elitist hunters that this idea would be embraced by common, everyday, Joe 6-Pack hunters.
When the WHA's plan soon disappears, consider it confirmation that Joe 6-Pack's moral compass retains its bearing.
Patrick Durkin is a free-lance writer who covers outdoors for the Press-Gazette
TOMANO
Post by: JasonV on June 26, 2006, 12:21:00 PM
I think a lot of people are fixating on the darting aspect, which in and of itself is obviously dead wrong - and will (hopefully) be stopped.
But I hope the message is also getting out that the "tournament"/gameshow aspect of this is also unacceptable - perverting hunting by bringing a giant cardboard check into the picture is just vulgar. If this is made clear, then WHA won't be able to reinvent itself as a lethal tournament either....
Post by: JasonV on June 26, 2006, 12:33:00 PM
Don't get me wrong, I'd try to reason with them first - but if they really think their personal gain is worth risking my kids' hunting future, then IT IS PERSONAL.
But going after their "day job" or their family is overstepping the bounds....
Post by: vermonster13 on June 26, 2006, 03:03:00 PM
1-888-332-8387
Lets start calling folks. If the FDA comes out with a finding against this, the WHA is done in this format.
Sorry to keep posting this, but it needs to be seen and done by as many as we can get.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 26, 2006, 03:48:00 PM
Post by: joel smith on June 26, 2006, 10:14:00 PM
Post by: Texasrecurve on June 27, 2006, 02:07:00 AM
Very well said Jason.
TR
Post by: vermonster13 on June 27, 2006, 04:55:00 PM
Post by: JasonV on June 27, 2006, 05:44:00 PM
If anyone else gets feedback from them, please post what you hear.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 28, 2006, 09:26:00 AM
The FDA hotline guys, call, call and call some more.
1-888-332-8387
Post by: vermonster13 on June 28, 2006, 10:26:00 AM
Any subscribers out there?
Post by: vermonster13 on June 28, 2006, 11:07:00 AM
Publisher: Sherry Krenz [email protected]
Editorial: Bill Krenz [email protected]
Give them some kudos folks! I took the post below from a friend helping us on another site.
Bowhunt America's stance on the WHA
I just spoke with Bill Krenz, owner/editor of BH AM. He informed me that there will be one Ad in I believe the Whitetail spcl, that cannot be pulled. They do not support the WHA.
He also said the WHA paid for a years worth of ads but wouldnt reveal what they were all about as it was wanted to be a "surprise". The WHA was refunded appropriate $ and was dropped. Mr. Krenz stated he felt duped into a bad position by haveing the true nature of the WHA concealed from him.
Having to hide the facts of your orginization in order to get publicity is yet another indicator of just how BAD an idea this is!
Post by: Terry Green on June 28, 2006, 02:01:00 PM
Did anyone ever get these hunters addresses?....if you go in for the videos, I'm in as well...you just let me know.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 28, 2006, 02:04:00 PM
Money was a big part of my conversation with a "hunter" with lip service to getting new hunters involved. It was like talking to a cult member.
Post by: Texasrecurve on June 28, 2006, 04:43:00 PM
TR
Post by: JasonV on June 28, 2006, 06:06:00 PM
This doesn't seem to be the case, so she said they didn't have any authority.
(This didn't surprise me much, since the FDA funtions the same way with drugs for human use - its the DEA that monitors use, not the FDA)
She suggested contacting the State Board of Vetrinary Medicine in Michigan:
(517) 335-0918
I left a message there as well - will post what I hear back from the Mi State Board.... (I know several people have contacted them already, but the more contacts they have, the more likely they are to take action....)
Post by: Terry Green on June 28, 2006, 06:19:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on June 28, 2006, 06:46:00 PM
Post by: aussiebowhunter on June 29, 2006, 02:24:00 AM
Post by: bbassi on June 29, 2006, 07:13:00 AM
As a side note, I watched the season opening show for "dream season 3" the other night. While I've enjoyed that show n the past and thought it was well done, I won't be watching it any more as I feel it opened the door to this kind of non-sense.
Post by: Terry Green on June 29, 2006, 10:20:00 AM
What do we need here?....do we need another form letter to send out?...what addreses should be on it?
Some of you guys are really good at wrighting letters..Jason, David, and Ray Hammon and others have really written some great common sence emails.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 29, 2006, 10:28:00 AM
I also think everyone who can call the number Jason posted should do so and I'll try to get a letter for e-mailing and address for the Michigan Veterinarian Board up later.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 29, 2006, 10:30:00 AM
Plenty of cons to pro hunting
By MICHAEL HOFFMAN Tribune Chronicle correspondent
It sometimes amazes me when I see hunters stab themselves and their sport by doing really stupid things.
Now here comes the latest idiotic effort to cause anti-hunters joy and give non-hunters a reason to think hunting is a bad idea.
An organization in Michigan called the World Hunting Association is planning to turn hunting into a competitive sport, similar to bass fishing. The plan is to create a competitive tour in which “professional hunters” shoot trophy animals with tranquilizer darts while dressed in clothing bearing the logos of sponsoring companies.
The founder of the WHA is a Michigan resident named David Farbman. He’s also the commissioner and chief executive officer of the organization, which has a group of investors and is offering $500,000 in prize money for the first two tournaments.
“The WHA fills a void by providing a platform that benefits the entire international hunting industry today and for generations to come,” Farbman said.
“For far too long, hunters have looked forward to the day when we would eventually get our own professional sports league,” said some guy named Brett Hankins, who is identified as a WHA hunter.
What these people plan to do is fence off a large area — in Michigan, to start — then cull the deer herd within that area, leaving only whitetails with wall-hanger type racks. Then, for the tournament, the “professional hunters” will use all their alleged skills to find trophy animals to bring down with darts.
Obviously, it’s going to be quite a challenge finding a trophy animal in a fenced-in area where there are nothing but trophy animals.
One of the most interesting things about this competitive “sport” is the fact that darting large animals with tranquilizers is a very tricky thing to do. In fact, it is such a difficult endeavor that the wildlife biologists who are trained to do it usually have veterinarians standing by.
And even with all the precautions these real professionals take, darted animals sometimes die.
The very idea of guys in logo-covered camos shooting darts at wild animals for cash prizes in a high-fence enclosure and calling it hunting makes me quite ill.
The folks at PETA, the Humane Society of the United States, Friends of Animals and other like-minded animal-rights organizations are going to love it.
While the “hunters” will be armed only with darts, the anti-hunting people will be loaded for bear.
Hunting Web sites all over the internet are being bombarded by hunters screaming blue, bloody murder about this idea, and thoughtful outdoorsmen are threatening boycotts of any of the companies that participate as sponsors.
The result of that has been the withdrawal of at least one company from the currently-secret list of sponsors.
Xtreme Scents, a Brighton, Mich. firm that produces deer-hunting scents mainly for bowhunters, has pulled out. “It is our goal, as a company, to do what is best for our customers, retailers, and the hunting industry,” the company said in announcing its withdrawal.
One can only hope that any other sponsors will do the right thing and send this idea to that spot in oblivion it so richly deserves.
__________________
Ron Reddon
Post by: MI_Bowhunter on June 29, 2006, 01:28:00 PM
Dear Mike,
Thank you for bringing this to my attention.
I was not aware of such a movement. As a member of Women in the Outdoors, I am making a few phone calls to other WITO members as well as my colleagues in the House Sportsmen Caucus. I will be forwarding your email to some colleagues that serve on the Outdoor Recreation Committee for input.
Thanks for the heads up! If you have any other concerns or questions, please do not hesitate to contact my office.
Sincerely,
PAULA ZELENKO
State Representative
District 50
Post by: vermonster13 on June 29, 2006, 01:44:00 PM
Post by: MI_Bowhunter on June 29, 2006, 02:30:00 PM
I am surprised by how many people, even those who keep up with hunting and outdoor events, are still not aware of this.
The WHA has tried to keep this thing quiet for a good reason. The more people that are made aware of their agenda the better.
Post by: MI_Bowhunter on June 29, 2006, 03:45:00 PM
Also cuts down on noise/scent at the scene. :thumbsup:
Post by: MI_Bowhunter on June 29, 2006, 03:47:00 PM
Post by: ozarkcherrybow1 on June 29, 2006, 10:26:00 PM
Terry
Post by: Ray Hammond on June 29, 2006, 11:38:00 PM
I cannot find my email to Chuck Sykes on this computer.
Can you please post it here, so others may use it as a template to write to the sponsors of Management Advantage?
Post by: vermonster13 on June 29, 2006, 11:41:00 PM
I have some difficulty with you telling the hunting community that what David Farbman is attempting to do with the WHA is going to recruit new hunters and retain hunters- it is disingenuous, and could be seen by some as purposefully misleading.
You know what it will draw is video game players, and spawn a new industry of shooting deer with drugs behind high fences on golf course - type communities that will eventually have condos, restaurants and shopping for the spouses of participants. Tranking deer with darts for the purpose of taking a photo with the animal is NOT hunting.
You also know that ACCESS is the single greatest factor related to why hunter numbers are not increasing. The only access this program provides is access to Farbman's and others' special deer pens in specific states where deer are considered livestock. After all, real estate development IS Farbman's business, isn't it? Great White hunter wannabe's will flock from the city to get their picture snapped with Buckie, the monster genetically mutated buck of the 21st century. And its hardly access that most American hunters can afford, anyway.
Any time you administer drugs to any animal you are putting it's life at risk, even if the percentages are miniscule. Doing so in order to win girls, cars, homes, and money will be seen by the public as exploitation of living beings. And believe me, when the media gets through with this bastardization of hunting that is what the public will see it as. In study after study, the public has consistently shown they respect hunters who take their kill home to feed their families, but that trophy hunting is wrong,they do not care for it, nor do they respect us when we hunt for that reason.
If ONE DEER DIES as a result of this activity, what happens then? You, nor anyone else can guarantee this will not happen. And if Farbman is right, what happens when folks begin cheering for the bucks, rather than the hunters? You cannot "explain away" the lack of "face time" for a buck when its dead...you've got to tell the truth. How's that going to play? What happens when a buck gets so big, and some powerful guy calls up the "pen" and offers 250K to shoot that deer for real? You think they are going to turn that down? How do you explain the disappearance of Buckie?
The Anti's, and their agent, the country's left wing media will cause the public to SEE this activity as the "face" of hunting if it occurs, and the 80% of our population who do not hunt and are against hunting will not respect this activity when they view it on TV and will vote AGAINST hunter's rights when they are called upon to do so in a state or national ballot.
I always try to "follow the money" when I see things like this crop up in hunting, politics, or business. I wonder what stake those supporting this activity have in its success? When so many are against it, there's got to be a reason, and its almost universally financial, that someone would find it possible to support it.
I respectfully ask you to reconsider your support of this activity for the good of the sport we all love.
Post by: vermonster13 on June 30, 2006, 10:13:00 AM
TO: Official Measurers
FROM: Glenn Hisey, Records Chairman
SUBJECT: New "World Hunting Association" threatens the image of hunting
Within the last two weeks, news has come out about a new commercial operation called the WHA. Fortunately, there has been a significant outcry within the hunting community so far. However, with the sponsorship and money behind this "endeavor," it is unlikely to disappear quickly and quietly. At face value, the WHA is a tremendous threat to "real" hunting and most definitely will become a huge public image nightmare for the hunting community. As such, we felt it was necessary to bring this to your attention, as official measurers of the Pope and Young Club.
... (I deleted the next paragraph explaining what WHA is... I think we all know this part)
You will shortly be noticing a public statement from the Pope and Young Club denouncing this affront to real hunting. This WHA is just plain wrong on so many levels, it is difficult to start listing specifics! Just when you think you've seen it all, and the commerce of hunting couldn't stoop any lower, we are now confronted with the affront to the values, principles and integrity of hunting.
We can only guess, at this point, how this thing is going to shake out. But, most certainly we do not want to hear the Pope and Young Club's name, or the records program, mentioned in ANY way with this aberration (whether it be using/abusing our scoring system, or simply someone on TV saying "there's a Pope and Young'er"). To that end, I am encouraging you...no, I intend to be stronger than that... WE DO NOT want ANY official measurer of the Pope and Young Club involved in any way with this "thing!" If you choose to (your prerogative), be assured that your appointment as an official measurer for our organization will be in jeopardy (our prerogative).
If you have any concerns.....
Post by: Texasrecurve on June 30, 2006, 01:07:00 PM
TR
Post by: Bill Carlsen on June 30, 2006, 08:35:00 PM
William,
We agree with you completely.
We, and many others, were duped by this organization. They placed an
extensive series of ads with us, but would NOT reveal the nature of
their "game" until after the first ad appeared.
Once we (and others) discovered the ridiculous nature of the WHA plan,
we immediately pulled all future WHA adds from our issues.
We do not support this organization's goals.
Bill Krenz
Owner/Editor
Post by: Terry Green on June 30, 2006, 08:50:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on July 01, 2006, 02:32:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on July 01, 2006, 06:26:00 PM
Outdoors: Good Will Hunting?
Newsweek
July 3-10, 2006 issue - This fall, the World Hunting Association, a new competitive league, will feature 10 hunters in a deer-hunting tournament ... not shooting bullets at anything. In an attempt to lure viewers who may be turned off by gore, the association's planners have dubbed this competition "nonlethal"—meaning that hunters will shoot tranquilizer darts from bows, guns and blowguns, and veterinarians will be on site to attend to the deer after they are hit. "It sits better with the public," says WHA founder David Farbman. "Hunting's not just about the kill."
That's a matter of debate. The National Rifle Association has pronounced the scheme "not hunting," says Andrew Arulanandam, an NRA spokesman, because it runs afoul of hunting ethics. Hunting is about the kill, Arulandam contends, and not about wounding animals with nonlethal darts. "They can possibly injure the animal," he says. "In hunting you are supposed to bring down your animal in the most humane way possible." This "catch and release" hunting has also been condemned by the U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance and the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals.
Karl Zainitzer, one of the hunters who has signed on to compete, doesn't have a problem with the unconventional premise. "People that would never go hunting will now turn this hunting tour on," he says. (Deals are in the works to televise it this fall.) Farbman is similarly unfazed. If this competition doesn't win the hearts and minds of nonhunting fans, he has some other ideas up his sleeve, including donating money to charity and launching a program to feed the hungry—with venison.
—Alicia Barney
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13529124/site/newsweek/
Post by: GroundHunter on July 01, 2006, 06:38:00 PM
Glad to mail sponsors and contact Texas Parks & Wildlife here in Texas.
Frankly, I'm bugged by the whole "Big Buck Boone & Crocket giant antlers are all that count craze in hunting. Tree-stands, shoot-through blinds, managed, guided hunts, protein feding year-round.
I've gone tradtitional bow-hunting because I'ld rather hunt squirells, rabbits and quail - straight up on the ground, wind in my face, than take a farm-raised (read that "managed")monster buck from a commercial hidey-blind covered in $2,000 of the latest camo-scent-loc-tactical underwear gear, with a laser-sighted compound bow, braced on a hip bar so I can draw it and hold it steady.
Oh! I'm making myself sick. Gotta grab my bare longbow and go hit some tennis balls in the back yard with wooden arrows.
Post by: BillyBobHowdieVern on July 02, 2006, 12:47:00 PM
Post by: aussiebowhunter on July 03, 2006, 11:01:00 AM
Post by: aussiebowhunter on July 04, 2006, 08:25:00 AM
Post by: Trad Lad on July 04, 2006, 08:58:00 AM
Pip
Post by: vermonster13 on July 04, 2006, 07:38:00 PM
Post by: Hunter John on July 04, 2006, 08:26:00 PM
John
Post by: todd secker on July 05, 2006, 09:58:00 AM
Post by: vermonster13 on July 05, 2006, 09:59:00 AM
Post by: Bill Carlsen on July 05, 2006, 10:32:00 AM
Post by: vermonster13 on July 05, 2006, 10:37:00 AM
Post by: joel smith on July 05, 2006, 05:19:00 PM
Post by: Bill Carlsen on July 05, 2006, 07:25:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on July 05, 2006, 07:37:00 PM
Farbman said that they have made some marketing mistakes and that none of the big money sponsors would get involved if there was killing in the show. sounds a bit off to me. What do you folks think?
Does anyone know the sponsors of any of the other Outdoor Channel shows and such? I don't get it or the mens channel here.
Post by: vermonster13 on July 06, 2006, 10:33:00 AM
Post by: Ray Hammond on July 06, 2006, 11:01:00 AM
If he knows that about Ford owners it sounds like he had the same idea I did.
We need to get after them. We also should contact the folks who sponsor The Management Advantage, since Chuck Sykes has a spiritual connection with David Farbman.
Post by: Ray Hammond on July 06, 2006, 11:32:00 AM
Chuck Sykes is using his position as a biologist to explain to all of us how we don't understand how carefully they have thought out this whole process at Worldhunt and that the difficulty is US, rather than Farbman...and if we would just open up our minds a little it would be GREEEAT for hunting.
See his statement of support -
To Whom It May Concern:
I am Chuck Sykes and many of you know me through my show, The Management Advantage. I was one of the first people in this country to focus shows in and around education and herd management. I have been involved with WorldHunt since nearly its inception.As you know, I would not involve myself in something that I did not feel would be great for the industry. We are lacking in recruitment and our retention needs some assistance. Worldhunt brings "out of the box" very well thought-through strategies to enhance these efforts we are all attempting for hunting.
I can tell you that I hunted with, and gotten to know, David Farbman on a personal- and spiritual level- and I can tell you he is without doubt one of the most passionate, driven, and ambitious hunters I have come across.
(at this point he goes on to tell us that we are all wrong about deer mortality with the medicines that will be used and how wonderful the techniques are that will be used and how we don't need to worry they have it under control- you can go to the worldhunt.com website to read this part if you are interested)
Then he goes on-
I think if we can all open our minds a bit we can do something truly special for hunting. Change is difficult.But sometimes it is the best option.David Farbman and a group of strong supporters are passionately dedicated to empowering the hunting INDUSTRY. Thank you for hearing some factual evidence..more will come soon.
Chuck Sykes
Well, here is what I wrote to Chuck.
Mr. Sykes,
I have some difficulty with you telling the hunting community that what David Farbman is attempting to do with the WHA is going to recruit new hunters and retain hunters- it is disingenuous, and could be seen by some as purposefully misleading.
You know what it will draw is video game players, and spawn a new industry of shooting deer with drugs behind high fences on golf course - type communities that will eventually have condos, restaurants and shopping for the spouses of participants. Tranking deer with darts for the purpose of taking a photo with the animal is NOT hunting.
You also know that ACCESS is the single greatest factor related to why hunter numbers are not increasing. The only access this program provides is access to Farbman's and others' special deer pens in specific states where deer are considered livestock. After all, real estate development IS Farbman's business, isn't it? Great White hunter wannabe's will flock from the city to get their picture snapped with Buckie, the monster genetically mutated buck of the 21st century. And its hardly access that most American hunters can afford, anyway.
Any time you administer drugs to any animal you are putting it's life at risk, even if the percentages are miniscule. Doing so in order to win girls, cars, homes, and money will be seen by the public as exploitation of living beings. And believe me, when the media gets through with this bastardization of hunting that is what the public will see it as. In study after study, the public has consistently shown they respect hunters who take their kill home to feed their families, but that trophy hunting is wrong,they do not care for it, nor do they respect us when we hunt for that reason.
If ONE DEER DIES as a result of this activity, what happens then? You, nor anyone else can guarantee this will not happen. And if Farbman is right, what happens when folks begin cheering for the bucks, rather than the hunters? You cannot "explain away" the lack of "face time" for a buck when its dead...you've got to tell the truth. How's that going to play? What happens when a buck gets so big, and some powerful guy calls up the "pen" and offers 250K to shoot that deer for real? You think they are going to turn that down? How do you explain the disappearance of Buckie?
The Anti's, and their agent, the country's left wing media will cause the public to SEE this activity as the "face" of hunting if it occurs, and the 80% of our population who do not hunt and are against hunting will not respect this activity when they view it on TV and will vote AGAINST hunter's rights when they are called upon to do so in a state or national ballot.
I always try to "follow the money" when I see things like this crop up in hunting, politics, or business. I wonder what stake those supporting this activity have in its success? When so many are against it, there's got to be a reason, and its almost universally financial, that someone would find it possible to support it.
I respectfully ask you to reconsider your support of this activity for the good of the sport we all love.
Ray Hammond
President, Suburban Whitetail Management of North Georgia, Inc
Member- North American Bowhunting Council
Vice Chairman- Ga Chapter-National Bowhunter Education Foundation
Georgia Deer Management Committee- Member
Life Member, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation
Life Member, Professional Bowhunters Society
Life Member/Founding Member-Traditional Bowhunters of Georgia, Inc
Since Mr. Sykes has chosen to enter the fray on behalf of David Farbman I believe it is legitimate for us to ask HIS show's sponsors if they are aware he is endorsing Farbman's activities?
We certainly aren't "going after" Chuck Sykes, but I think it would be a concern for companies that would want to know the position the people they are sponsoring are taking on this issue so they can remain informed and aware before something happens, don't you? Keep it civil, and business- like in your communications...just business..keeping them informed as a consumer you are happy/unhappy with their Mr Syke's message on the website of Worldhunt- here are the sponsors..
Mossy Oak camo
Mossy Oak Bio Logic
Quality Deer Management Association
Leaf River Products
BASF
Kershaw Knives
Polaris
Mega Outdoor Property
Do All Outdoors
The Edge Outdoors
Brush Clearing Services, LLC
Great Day Inc.
Me Opta
Post by: joel smith on July 06, 2006, 12:35:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on July 06, 2006, 01:19:00 PM
http://www.megaoutdoorproperty.com/home.html
Post by: REDBISON on July 06, 2006, 04:22:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on July 06, 2006, 05:38:00 PM
I did receive an e-mail from the NRA today saying they are opposed to the WHA though.
Post by: Ray Hammond on July 06, 2006, 07:24:00 PM
To my knowledge, GWF is the first state NWF affiliate to stand opposed to the WHA and the first GA organization to express their opposition. Please share this good news with other valiant riders!
The Georgia Wildlife Federation is the largest and oldest hunter/angler based conservation organization in Georgia. Since 1936, we have supported, defended and upheld high ethical standards of hunting and professional wildlife management in Georgia. The promotion of hunting as a “league” where fans “root for the buck” and WHA awards tournament prize money, as in competitive sports, is completely contrary to the sturdy pursuit of the hunt, in which all true ethical hunters understand the ultimate reality and take seriously the harvest of their quarry. Promoting “shoot and release” has been described by many Georgia hunters as humorous, ridiculous and a dangerous path to take. The unintended consequences of this commercial pursuit are not only varied and damaging to the reputation of hunters as sportsmen, it is clear such intentions are driven by financial gain at the expense of true fair chase hunters. Creating a competition “league” for entertainment and advertising value exploits wildlife as a simple commercial commodity and is contrary to our traditional American values for sport hunting.
Our opinion is that tranquilizer darts should be used strictly for scientific research by trained wildlife biologists and wildlife management professionals. The invention and perfection of the tranquilizer dart gun occurred in Georgia and has since been used by wildlife professionals world wide. It is not a tool of “sport”! Concerns for the use of controlled substances, dosage administration, lack of scientific knowledge of biologic and secondary non-game wildlife impacts and legal issues must be considered.
We join the ranks of other businesses and organizations opposing this endeavor in an effort to promote, protect and sustain the tried and true heritage and tradition of hunting in America for future generations.
Post by: Ray Hammond on July 06, 2006, 07:29:00 PM
see the link
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13529124/site/newsweek
Post by: vermonster13 on July 07, 2006, 09:41:00 AM
The WHA is in a damage control and holding position right now, we can't allow them to keep things together. Sponsors on the list Ray just posted need to be contacted, we need to make these guys as uncomfortable as possible.
Contacting your state veterinary boards is the key to preventing them from doing this in each state. The FDA has said that they leave enforcement of this to those folks, so let's put those folks to work. We need to start as many fires as we can if we want to burn this thing to the ground.
Each of us needs to decide if we're in this for the long haul. We have some victories, but this war is far from over folks. Are you with us?
Post by: Ray Hammond on July 07, 2006, 09:48:00 AM
Since Mr. Sykes has chosen to enter the fray on behalf of David Farbman I believe it is legitimate for us to ask HIS show's sponsors if they are aware he is endorsing Farbman's activities?
We certainly aren't "going after" Chuck Sykes, but I think it would be a concern for companies that would want to know the position the people they are sponsoring are taking on this issue so they can remain informed and aware before something happens, don't you? Keep it civil, and business- like in your communications...just business..keeping them informed as a consumer you are happy/unhappy with their Mr Syke's message on the website of Worldhunt- here are the sponsors..
Mossy Oak camo
Mossy Oak Bio Logic
Quality Deer Management Association
Leaf River Products
BASF
Kershaw Knives
Polaris
Mega Outdoor Property
Do All Outdoors
The Edge Outdoors
Brush Clearing Services, LLC
Great Day Inc.
Me Opta
Post by: Ted A. Young on July 07, 2006, 10:26:00 AM
Ohio folks are fighting the good fight!
Post by: vermonster13 on July 07, 2006, 10:33:00 AM
Personally I cringe at the thought of hunting fantasy leagues and betting odds in Vegas on these "hunting events" but that's where NASCAR is at and these guys want to turn hunting into the new Nascar.
Post by: vermonster13 on July 07, 2006, 11:11:00 AM
Dear (sponsor name here),
www.worldhunt.com (http://www.worldhunt.com) is the website of a group planning on a "contest" for prizes/money to the tune of $600,000 where deer will be placed in a pen and shot with tranquilizer darts by a group of a half dozen or so "hunters" who will have their photos taken with the deer, the deer's rack scored, and based on that they will be awarded prizes. I am writing to you because Chuck Sykes, whose TV show you sponsor- THE MANAGEMENT ADVANTAGE- has come out in support of this activity.
You may click on the above link and it will take you to the official website so you can go through Mr. Syke's "open letter" describing how great this "hunt" will be for the hunting INDUSTRY and I guess his implication is it will be good for HUNTING as well. I wanted to bring his position to your attention, and I hope that YOU share my concern that this activity is NOT in the best interest of our sport. Many share my concern- in fact, the list of organizations and people against this event taking place is quite impressive- here are some of them-
Pope & young
Safari Club International
Boone & Crockett
NFAA
USSA
NSSF
NRA
Cabelas
Bass Pro Shops
Matthews
ROSS
Newberry
Merlin USA
Martin Archery
Eastman Outfitters
G5 Outdoors
Xtreme Scents
Muzzy
Pinwheel Products
Outdoors Life
New York Post
Detroit Free Press
Georgia Wildlife Federation
I have written Mr. Sykes a letter, a copy of which is below, but to date I have received no response. I would appreciate learning of your position with respect to this activity if you would not mind informing me. Thank you for your time
Sincerely,
Mr. Sykes,
I have some difficulty with you telling the hunting community that what David Farbman is attempting to do with the WHA is going to recruit new hunters and retain hunters- it is disingenuous, and could be seen by some as purposefully misleading.
You know what it will draw is video game players, and spawn a new industry of shooting deer with drugs behind high fences on golf course - type communities that will eventually have condos, restaurants and shopping for the spouses of participants. Tranking deer with darts for the purpose of taking a photo with the animal is NOT hunting.
You also know that ACCESS is the single greatest factor related to why hunter numbers are not increasing. The only access this program provides is access to Farbman's and others' special deer pens in specific states where deer are considered livestock. After all, real estate development IS Farbman's business, isn't it? Great White hunter wannabe's will flock from the city to get their picture snapped with Buckie, the monster genetically mutated buck of the 21st century. And its hardly access that most American hunters can afford, anyway.
Any time you administer drugs to any animal you are putting it's life at risk, even if the percentages are miniscule. Doing so in order to win girls, cars, homes, and money will be seen by the public as exploitation of living beings. And believe me, when the media gets through with this bastardization of hunting that is what the public will see it as. In study after study, the public has consistently shown they respect hunters who take their kill home to feed their families, but that trophy hunting is wrong,they do not care for it, nor do they respect us when we hunt for that reason.
If ONE DEER DIES as a result of this activity, what happens then? You, nor anyone else can guarantee this will not happen. And if Farbman is right, what happens when folks begin cheering for the bucks, rather than the hunters? You cannot "explain away" the lack of "face time" for a buck when its dead...you've got to tell the truth. How's that going to play? What happens when a buck gets so big, and some powerful guy calls up the "pen" and offers 250K to shoot that deer for real? You think they are going to turn that down? How do you explain the disappearance of Buckie?
The Anti's, and their agent, the country's left wing media will cause the public to SEE this activity as the "face" of hunting if it occurs, and the 80% of our population who do not hunt and are against hunting will not respect this activity when they view it on TV and will vote AGAINST hunter's rights when they are called upon to do so in a state or national ballot.
I always try to "follow the money" when I see things like this crop up in hunting, politics, or business. I wonder what stake those supporting this activity have in its success? When so many are against it, there's got to be a reason, and its almost universally financial, that someone would find it possible to support it.
I respectfully ask you to reconsider your support of this activity for the good of the sport we all love.
Post by: Dave Lay on July 07, 2006, 11:35:00 AM
Post by: vermonster13 on July 07, 2006, 12:04:00 PM
I am hoping we will have a mass mailing up for everyone to use soon like we had for the first set of sponsors.
Post by: vermonster13 on July 07, 2006, 12:11:00 PM
It has come to my attention that you are a sponsor of Chuck Sykes TV show, The Management Advantage.
If you are not aware, Mr. Sykes has been involved with the World Hunt Association since its inception. World hunt, as you probably know by now, is an attempt to take hunting as we know it currently and create a televised circus atmosphere where the animals are shot with a tranquilizer dart within an enclosed pen. All for the glory, cash and prizes, much like a bass tournament or a NASCAR points race. Shooting animals with a dart within an enclosure is not hunting, nor is hunting a catch and release endeavor, where some “pro hunter” represents this as the future of hunting. Hopefully the animal recovers, but it will be only to be darted again at a later date.
This is not hunting as my father taught me or as I teach students in Bowhunter Education classes. I will not stand to see it turned into a game of some sort for the glory of a few so called “hunters”. Is this how we want the 80% non hunting public to view us as hunters? Do you know what kind of damage that will do to our hunting image?? Please consider carefully the ramifications of this activity. I and many like me will nolonger purchase any product by a company involved with this type of activity. The dangers this presents to hunting and the fuel it will provide anti-hunters is just to damaging to hunting to be supported.
Sincerely,
Post by: Dave Lay on July 07, 2006, 12:17:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on July 07, 2006, 12:29:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on July 07, 2006, 01:31:00 PM
This is the link for the e-mails http://www.mossyoak.com/content.asp?id=210
Mossy Oak Bio Logic [email protected]
Quality Deer Management Associations phone# 1-800-209-DEER (3337)
Contact page http://www.qdma.com/contact/default.asp
Leaf River Products contact page http://www.vibrashine.com/contact.html
BASF http://www.corporate.basf.com/en/kontakt/?id=*AGLI8ugBbcp1oK
Kershaw Knives 1-800-325-2891 [email protected]
Polaris Industries (763) 417-8650
Mega Outdoor Properties http://www.megaoutdoorproperty.com/contact.html
Do All Outdoors 800.252.9247
The Edge Outdoors (they do scent elimination products) No contact info yet
Brush Clearing Services LLC No contact info yet
Great Day Inc. Camo face mask maker, no contact info yet
Meopta optics maker U.S. Distributor is TCI NY (631)436-5900
If anyone has e-mail addresses on these folks or any of the others on the list, please send them to me. As of right now I have one for Mossy Oak Biologic and Kershaw Knives. We would be able to set-up a letter for direct mailing if we had all the addresses.
Post by: Ray Hammond on July 07, 2006, 01:43:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on July 07, 2006, 05:51:00 PM
Dear Sir,
Thanks so much for caring enough about our sport to take the time to send an email. I appreciate and respect your concerns. We at Mossy Oak and BioLogic are very passionate about hunting and its traditions. Its our lifestyle. We have the utmost respect for Chuck Sykes and the Management Advantage television show. Chuck loves the sport as much as any of us. Its my understanding that Chuck is managing the wildlife on the property to be used and they couldn’t have a better guy. I know in my heart he wouldn’t align himself or support anything that would harm our sport.
I don’t know many details, but I understand more info is coming on what the WHA is doing. I trust Chuck and I am willing to wait and see and keep an open mind. I’d like for us all to keep an open mind and see what this is all about before we make rash emotional decisions. At some point in life and business…you have to trust others….and I trust Chuck.
Thanks for your past support and I hope you will be willing to wait and see.
Bobby Cole
BioLogic
Post by: BigRonHuntAlot on July 07, 2006, 06:45:00 PM
Post by: 42WLA on July 07, 2006, 07:16:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on July 07, 2006, 07:24:00 PM
Post by: bbassi on July 07, 2006, 07:35:00 PM
Post by: Ray Hammond on July 07, 2006, 07:56:00 PM
It's good to have friends, but with friendship also comes the responsibility to tell your friend when he is messing up, doesn't it?
I read, albeit with some incredulity, your response regarding your thoughts on the WHA.
Wait and see for WHAT?
Once this show materializes the "jig" is up! Our sworn enemies have all the film they need to prove that all of us involved in hunting are nothing but a bunch of "users"- and the last straw is that we are willing to USE helpless animals, endangering their lives in a game, no matter how slim the percentages are, to gain fame and wealth. That's what the public will see, Bobby.
This is NOT hunting. Its a bastardization of hunting. But when our friends in the media get hold of it it will become the FACE of hunting to the 80% of our population we are going to need to depend on when the ballots get counted on a national referendum on whether you get to continue doing what your livelihood is dependent on.
What more could PETA/HSUS be hoping for? They will make huge inroads with that film and their $96,000,000 a year budget. Jeepers creepers, Bobby, they won't even HAVE to spend their money- their willing accomplices in the media are going to give them all the free airtime they need running us into the ground with this crap!
Just like when the ATA told all the state game and fish folks that crossbows would bring more participants into hunting, and all it ended up doing was offer the chance for lazy gun hunters to participate in archery season without expending any effort to practice- this thing is not going to be recruiting new hunters- it will be recruiting big white hunter wannabe's from the city, and gamers, who will come and dart deer behind fences -but they aren't hunters, Bobby. Never will be.
If you want to do something to help recruit new hunters, worry about "access"- to hunting grounds. That is the single largest problem with recruitment and retention of hunters. But then, you and Chuck already know that, as does everyone involved in the hunting community. But that doesn't sell much seed, and siding with Chuck and Farbman "might" sell a little more, so you're just going to ride that pony for a while and see where it leads?
For what? So David Farbman can make millions personally, and sell lots of land around the country to create a series of venues for this to be run like Nascar and BASS? Can't you understand the long term ramifications of this far outweigh the short term profits you may experience?
Wait? I don't think so. Why don't you play your fiddle while Rome burns? Me, I'm going to try my best to stop this thing and preserve YOUR future right to hunt. You sell some seed to Farbman.
Oh, and by the way, the 9000 acres where I've been planting your stuff over in South Carolina? No more. Now where are those Antler King and Tecomate Seed catalogs?
Sincerely,
Ray Hammond
Post by: JC on July 07, 2006, 08:08:00 PM
Post by: Rob DiStefano on July 07, 2006, 08:09:00 PM
The question is, has Bobby already sold out ...
Post by: vermonster13 on July 07, 2006, 08:12:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on July 07, 2006, 09:01:00 PM
http://www.metrotimes.com/editorial/story.asp?id=5438
Post by: Ray Hammond on July 07, 2006, 09:22:00 PM
I will be able to find out...and I will let you know.
Post by: bbassi on July 07, 2006, 10:27:00 PM
Vermonster. I saw on the other thread that Cabela's is with us. That being said, they carry a huge selection of MO stuff. What was their actual statement on WHA?
Post by: Ted on July 07, 2006, 10:44:00 PM
Dave - I have a bit of long car ride in the morning - it is a great time to call folks to get my voice out there. Could you post or pm me a list of phone numbers of sponsors and supporters that I could leave messages for or better yet have discussions with.
I haven't been too active in this fight yet, but, gosh, I need to be . . . we all do.
Thanks,
Ted
Post by: Texasrecurve on July 08, 2006, 01:50:00 AM
TR
Post by: tothfngclw on July 08, 2006, 02:39:00 AM
Dear Sirs, due to your decision to stand by Chuck Sykes and the WHA I regret to inform you that I will no longer be purchasing any Mossy Oak or BioLogic products. I removed the Obsession bumper sticker that was on my game wall and the one on my Jeep. A quick check at www.realtree.com (http://www.realtree.com) found objections to the Mr. Sykes and the WHA in the hunting forums but no word from Realtree itself. Rest assured that if they too decide to align themselves with these individuals then I will also boycott their products. I would rather stand in the woods naked then help support a company that doesn't seem to get what the WHA is about. The list of companies and organizations that are speaking out against this organization is growing everyday. Organizations such as Mathews Archery, Martin Archery, Pope and Young, SCI, Boone and Crocket, Cabelas, Bass Pro, Merlin Archery, NFAA, NRA, Ross Archery, Newberry Archery, Muzzy, G5, Eastman Outfitters and many more. Outdoor writers have spoken with one voice against this attrocity. I am your target market. I am the purchaser of your products. You have shown that you don't value my traditions and the heritage of hunting. I am embarrassed that this Mr. Farbman is not only from Michigan but that he is trying to have his first darting contest here. I am a resident of the State and I am one of the almost 400,000 bowhunters and almost 800,000 rifle hunters who take to the woods every year in this tradition that we call hunting. It looks nothing like what Mr. Farbman envisions. I have written to the Governor, local and State representatives, MIDNR, manufacturers, hunting organizations and anyone who will listen and might help to stop this. I hope that in the future the folks at Mossy Oak might see that this WHA nonsense is not good for hunting and will join those who are opposed. Perhaps at that time I might consider becoming a customer again. If there is enough outcry over this and hunters can get Cabelas and Bass Pro to stop carrying your products until this is resoved, do you believe that the small amount of people involved in the WHA are enough to keep Mossy Oak in business??
Post by: vermonster13 on July 08, 2006, 05:40:00 PM
Here is Mossy Oaks phone# 662-494-8859
This is the link for the e-mails http://www.mossyoak.com/content.asp?id=210
Mossy Oak Bio Logic [email protected]
Quality Deer Management Associations phone# 1-800-209-DEER (3337)
Contact page http://www.qdma.com/contact/default.asp
Leaf River Products contact page http://www.vibrashine.com/contact.html (601) 785 9854
BASF http://www.corporate.basf.com/en/kontakt/?id=*AGLI8ugBbcp1oK
Kershaw Knives 1-800-325-2891 [email protected]
Polaris Industries (763) 417-8650
Mega Outdoor Properties http://www.megaoutdoorproperty.com/contact.html
The Edge Outdoors (they do scent elimination products) [email protected] (334) 671-4996
Brush Clearing Services LLC 770-716-8100
Great Day Inc. Camo face mask maker, 1-866-649-1918
Meopta optics maker U.S. Distributor is TCI NY (631)436-5900 [email protected]
If anyone has e-mail addresses on these folks or any of the others on the list, please send them to me. As of right now I have one for Mossy Oak Biologic and Kershaw Knives. We would be able to set-up a letter for direct mailing if we had all the addresses.
Post by: aussiebowhunter on July 08, 2006, 06:34:00 PM
pat
Post by: vermonster13 on July 08, 2006, 09:52:00 PM
Check this out folks!
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=83949904&blogID=138784923&MyToken=6d93563e-93e6-4dfa-9f90-786536bad650
Post by: vermonster13 on July 08, 2006, 10:52:00 PM
Here is the feedback page for Realtree so some of you can ask them like I did. I put it under Other for dept.
http://www.realtree.com/contact/index.tpl?faq=T
Here is ASAT's phone# 406-563-9336
Post by: jindydiver on July 09, 2006, 05:53:00 AM
Quote
(Q) Why are there high fences at these event locations?How on earth do high fences "ensure the safety of the animals" :knothead:
(A) Although all of the participants practice fair chase hunting, it is imperative to hold these competitions in a controlled environment to ensure the safety of the animals. The tournaments will be held on large high fence ranches that mimic a fair chase environment. A high fence ranch offers the appropriately controlled environment and allows the ability for the WHA to educate the public properly regarding herd and food plot management. All of the participants (as well as many WHA employees) are avid fair chase hunters.
What he really means is it stops real hunters from taking them ('cause the real hunters do go inside the pens).
And "mimicking" fair chase hunting isn't fair chase hunting, it is shooting animals behind wire. You can dress it up as much as you like but hunting behind wire IS NOT fair chase hunting.
:banghead:
Post by: vermonster13 on July 09, 2006, 02:58:00 PM
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060709/SPORTS10/607090629/1066/SPORTS
http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/journalgazette/sports/15000333.htm
Post by: vermonster13 on July 09, 2006, 07:49:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on July 09, 2006, 09:04:00 PM
Post by: Frank1107 on July 09, 2006, 09:40:00 PM
Thank you for your diligence in this fiasco. I have written to everyone you suggested and have made others in my circle of influence aware.
Frank
Post by: bbassi on July 09, 2006, 10:12:00 PM
Post by: Ken999 on July 09, 2006, 10:32:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on July 09, 2006, 10:40:00 PM
Post by: bbassi on July 09, 2006, 10:45:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on July 09, 2006, 10:49:00 PM
Thanks to all of you for your efforts, we are making progress, it just takes time to win some wars.
Post by: waknstak IL on July 09, 2006, 10:57:00 PM
Post by: el cazador on July 09, 2006, 11:27:00 PM
It looks like the form email is addressed to Management Advantage. Does it go to Management Advantage, or to their sponsors? Just want to know if that one email takes care of all, or if I need to send something to each of the sponsors too.
Thanks for all of your efforts.
Anthony
Post by: knife river on July 10, 2006, 12:35:00 AM
Post by: vermonster13 on July 10, 2006, 08:18:00 AM
Post by: Arrow4Christ on July 10, 2006, 11:04:00 AM
"we are not an official sponsor. We do not pay for the link. We do not position our selves in the same line of thought as Chuck."
Post by: vermonster13 on July 10, 2006, 11:10:00 AM
Post by: vermonster13 on July 11, 2006, 01:15:00 PM
The use of non lethal weapons in the pursuit of whitetails
By Henry Chidgey
I, for one, can see no reason why we as sportsmen, should not support and consider the use of non lethal weapons as another form of interacting in nature with the elements and wildlife. Some of the letters I have read recently concerning the new World Hunting Association seem very reminiscent of the arguments about traditional vs compound bows, inline scoped muzzle loaders vs flint locks, single shot vs semi auto rifles, etc. In my judgment, the weapon we use is much less important that the efforts and behaviors we put into being great wildlife stewards. For the life of me I cannot get upset about someone hunting with a bow or rifle to immobilize a whitetail, take the animals picture, and that person feeling good about the skill and patience it took to accomplish this with an animal like a whitetail deer. As a matter of fact, I can envision this being used as a tool to allow more whitetail bucks to reach maturity and even engage a larger segment of our population in pursuit of wildlife and the appreciation for the total ecosystem that we and the wildlife live in.
A hunter is best defined by his or her ethics, not by the weapon they use. I’ve heard some die hard traditional bowhunters talk about using blunts to shoot at wildlife (and some domestic animals). I’ve seen rifle hunters that have never fired their weapon before coming to hunt. I’ve seen all kinds of “hunters” take “I had to try, you know” shots and never even go follow up to see if they had wounded the animal. Hunting is about respect for the wildlife, the habitat, and our fellow human beings, hunters, non hunters, and anti hunters. Thank goodness the great majority of folks I see these days, especially in QDMA, are passionate about the habitat and wildlife. They probably are better described as wildlife and habitat stewards who hunt. That hunting includes lots of non lethal activities, like photography, habitat development, scouting, etc. It may also include trapping for predator control, depredation hunting to remove excess does, cutting down trees to improve browse, planting trees, burning native grasses, etc. I think this idea of non lethal hunting as another part of being a wildlife and habitat steward is exciting and well worth the effort of further investigation.
As far as this World Hunting Association Contest thing goes, I think the impact on hunters and non hunters will depend completely on how the producers and participants conduct the contest and use the show as not only an opportunity for selling hunting stuff, but selling the role, we as wildlife stewards have in enhancing and protecting the habitat (including fatally harvesting the appropriate number of whitetails for the carrying capacity of the wildlife). The impact on anti hunters we already know, they will attempt to spin the story to further their agenda of putting an end to legal hunting. At the end of the day they don’t really matter, the non hunters have the numbers. Our job is to engage more and more non hunters into the experience of the excitement of seeing a whitetail without the animal ever knowing you are there and then having the skill to hit the animal with a bullet, arrow, or dart. Once they experience that, they, like many of us will be hooked for life.
I support the effort David Farbman and his associates are making and agree this is another opportunity for all hunters to stand together. I would also challenge Mr Farbman to have his and his associates’ actions be absolutely consistent with his words. I hope he is a man of honor. Time will tell.
Post by: vermonster13 on July 11, 2006, 01:18:00 PM
http://www.deerage.com/about_us.htm
Wonder why all the guys coming out in support of this make a living off of managing enclosed herds and big lease herds?
Post by: JC on July 11, 2006, 02:07:00 PM
:mad: :confused: (I'd put a crying graemlin on here too if we had one)"...use the show as not only an opportunity for selling hunting stuff" I think that's yer answer David
Post by: Ray Hammond on July 11, 2006, 02:54:00 PM
"Hunting is about respect for the wildlife..."
How can you respect wildlife- and shoot them in the ass with a dart full of tranquilizers that COULD end their lives, to earn prizes, money, and fame???????
"I've heard of some die hard traditional bowhunters using blunts to shoot animals including domestic ones.."
What kind of low life trash has he been talking to, and how dare they characterize themselves as hunters? they aren't hunters...they don't respect animals at all if they participate in activities like that.
I think he made it up personally...maybe not...maybe someone in a high fenced pen in TX said it while he was doing some genetic work on faked up big antlered whitetails for his company?
Post by: Dave Lay on July 11, 2006, 04:12:00 PM
Post by: el cazador on July 11, 2006, 09:24:00 PM
This statement... "I’ve heard some die hard traditional bowhunters talk about using blunts to shoot at wildlife (and some domestic animals). I’ve seen rifle hunters that have never fired their weapon before coming to hunt. I’ve seen all kinds of “hunters” take “I had to try, you know” shots and never even go follow up to see if they had wounded the animal." describes just the type "hunters" that this type event would cater too. We don't need people like this representing true hunters to John Q Public!
The whole thing is just plain unethical.
Post by: vermonster13 on July 11, 2006, 09:29:00 PM
Post by: jindydiver on July 11, 2006, 11:37:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by vermonster13:And to try and drag others down to make your argument is just pathetic, and shows the lack of depth in his argument.
This guy makes a statement about the Trad guys with blunts (using blunts on wild deer is illegal everywhere) as an unethical thing and I agree, but why does he consider guys shooting drugged blunts with compounds a good thing? He doesn't appear to have really done any looking into the WHA, just wrote what they asked him to.
Post by: Robert Honaker on July 12, 2006, 12:39:00 AM
Post by: Bill Carlsen on July 12, 2006, 08:48:00 AM
Post by: vermonster13 on July 12, 2006, 08:56:00 AM
Post by: JC on July 12, 2006, 12:14:00 PM
Scuse my while I go get sick....
Post by: Ray Hammond on July 13, 2006, 12:10:00 AM
I called him out, and he knew I was the faster gun and he just stayed in the bar drinking.
Post by: vermonster13 on July 13, 2006, 08:52:00 AM
Thanks David,
We have no plans to be involved or participate in the World Hunting
Association.
Thanks for the question,
Team Realtree
Post by: Dave Lay on July 13, 2006, 09:51:00 AM
Thanks Dave,
We have no plans to be involved or participate in the World Hunting
Association.
Thanks for the question,
Team Realtree
Post by: vermonster13 on July 13, 2006, 11:40:00 AM
QDMA Opposes WHA (http://tradgang.com/data/QDMA_Opposes_WHA.pdf)
Post by: Bill Carlsen on July 13, 2006, 04:39:00 PM
Gentlemen: I am hoping that email will get to Chuck Sykes. It has come to my attention that he is involved with a new program called World Hunt. I am adamantly opposed to the World Hunt program and its interest in promoting hunting as a competitive spectator sport using tranquilizers and offering cash prizes to "hunters" who dart the biggest animal in a closed fence environment. There is much I could say but I will attach a copy of the Quality Deer Management Associations statement and encourage you and your other sponsors to distance yourselves from Mr. Farbram and his poorly thought out program. There is just way too many negatives involved in this that it cannot, in my mind anyway, be a positive force for hunting of any kind. Please be kind enough to respond to me about this issue. I look forward to the Management Advantage show but will not continue to watch it or endorse any of its sponsors if Mr. Sykes continues to assist Mr. Farbam's World Hunt program. If it is not too much trouble I would like to hear from Mr. Sykes, personally.
Sincerely,
William Carlsen
Post by: 2-BIG on July 14, 2006, 02:07:00 AM
My name is Matt & I'm a producer at the Daily Show with Jon Stewart.
We are currently working on a story about the World Hunting Association and their method of nonlethal hunting (tranquilziers, et al).
We're trying to find hunters in the Detroit area who are opposed to this practice. We will be in the area on 7/25 and would like to interview some hunters then.
Please e-mail me if you're in the Detroit area (or can be there on the 25th) and are seriously opposed to this form of hunting.
Thanks!
-Matt [email protected]
Post by: BigRonHuntAlot on July 20, 2006, 03:20:00 PM
POPE AND YOUNG CLUB
NEWS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
July 19, 2006
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Email Communications
In an effort to increase communications with you, the members, we will begin sending email messages when pertinent items arise.
We have been adding email addresses to the membership database in preparation for this for the last couple of years (you likely have noticed our request for your email address on your membership renewal notices). Obviously, we never will reach 100% coverage of the membership with this communication format, but we are already at a strong percentage and feel that it's time to start utilizing what we think can be a valuable tool for reaching you with timely information.
Please keep us informed of your email address changes by sending a note to the office at [email protected]. If you do not wish to receive these messages, you can request so by following the prompt given below.
Pope and Young Club Denounces World Hunting Association Concept
A recent announcement by the World Hunting Association has raised significant concerns within the Pope and Young Club. According to WHA publicity releases, a televised tournament series featuring "professional hunters" is slated for broadcast this coming fall. Competitors reportedly will seek to tranquilize deer within high-fence game farm properties. Lucrative prizes are to be awarded to individuals collecting the biggest or most captive deer during televised "hunts." Both bows and firearms will be used to deliver the tranquilizing agents.
"Hunting is not a 'catch and release' proposition," said P&Y President M. R. James. "Nor is it intended to be an entertaining public spectacle. The Pope and Young Club certainly does not want its organization identified with this type of commercial endeavor, either directly or indirectly. That includes any reference to P&Y-class animals or the use of our measuring system to determine the score of captive deer. This idea flies in the face of the ethical, Fair Chase bowhunting challenges our organization embraces."
Noting that the Pope and Young Club does not accept captive animals as record book entries, Executive Secretary Kevin Hisey added: "The idea that this concept is just plain wrong goes well beyond the issue of game farms and high fences. Many responsible hunters will view it as an affront to the values, principles and integrity of hunting so many hold dear."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Established in 1961, the Pope and Young Club is a non-profit North American conservation and bowhunting organization dedicated to ensuring bowhunting for future generations by preserving and promoting its heritage and values. The Club also maintains the universally recognized repository for the records and statistics on North American big game animals harvested with the bow and arrow.
Pope and Young Club
273 Mill Creek Road - PO Box 548 - Chatfield, MN 55923
Phone: (507) 867-4144 - Fax: (507) 867-4144
Web site: www.pope-young.org (http://www.pope-young.org) - Email: [email protected]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by: vermonster13 on August 04, 2006, 08:47:00 PM
“Working for tomorrow’s wildlife … TODAY!”
www.texas-wildlife.org (http://www.texas-wildlife.org)
2800 NE Loop 410, Suite 105 <> San Antonio, Texas 78218
<> 210/826-2904 <> 800/839-9453 <> FAX 210/826-4933
TWA Position Statement on World Hunting Association (WHA)
The Texas Wildlife Association does not support the concept of competitive
hunting, tournament hunting, and paying hunters for participation in
competitive hunting activities. While this can be acceptable in many of the
shooting sports as well as other sports, we believe that for the future and
integrity of hunting, that such activities step over an ethical line, much like
internet hunting. Therefore, we cannot conceptually support the World
Hunting Association proposed competitive tournament for top dollar prize
money. In addition, hunting is not a “non-lethal” or catch-and-release
endeavor as proposed by the WHA, and we have concerns that it would be
erroneously portrayed in this manner. While we commend the WHA for
their passion and belief that they will entice a new audience and convert
more folks to hunting, we do not think this is the way to do it. Deer hunting
is just not a competitive sport, but about respect and reverence for the
quarry, an experience in nature and natural settings, traditions and sharing
with family and friends. The hunt is about inundating yourself in nature,
understanding the prey, and making safe and ethical decisions. Hunting
cannot be about the hunter, the tournament, or the prize money.
Adopted August 2, 2006
Post by: GroundHunter on August 06, 2006, 02:52:00 PM
We should voice our disgust, and withold all support for it. We should make this clear to all who want to be a part of traditional bowhunting, and to those who market to traditional bowhunters. It's not for us.
At the same time, I don't think we should spend a great deal of effort and money in opposing it. The people who want this sort of thing will not get the point.
I don't blame some bowhunters for jumping in to the WHA deal for promotion and money. It's hard to make a living on bowhunting talent. Buffalo Bill and Howard Hill had to sell the story as entertainment.
Traditional bowhunters will not have to be told, and cannot be sold a ticket to the coliseum. The traditional trail is not the easy trail, with guarantees, ATV's, pampered comfort, and instant-success-in-a-box for a money price. It is a road less traveled, less crowded, where the quest is the trophy. I like it that way.
Let the masses, huddle 'round their electron rodeos, and buy all the packaged games, caps, t-shits, action toys, wheel-bows and gizmos, blinds, clothing and geer, even big-dollar canned hunts. Let them simulate hunting to their heart's content, even hunt on the same ranch I hunt. They cannot spoil my hunt. We can walk the same woods, gaze at the same blue sky, but they won't see what I see, until they are ready, until they are looking for it - the few who take the traditional trail.
Perhaps our activism should focus on living our tradition, building our community, and just letting our light shine for those who can see it.
Post by: vermonster13 on August 12, 2006, 10:14:00 AM
Post by: vermonster13 on August 12, 2006, 10:15:00 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Hunting_Association
Post by: T. Downing on August 12, 2006, 09:04:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on August 18, 2006, 08:48:00 PM
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/08/060816-hunting.html
The WHA is on the ropes. Does a lot of the article information look familiar to you guys? ;)
Keep the pressure on we're getting close.
Post by: vermonster13 on August 18, 2006, 10:24:00 PM
Post by: vermonster13 on August 19, 2006, 03:08:00 PM
Misfire?
World Hunting Association on target for premiere, but critics still keep the pro tourney in their sights
MT. MORRIS TOWNSHIP
THE FLINT JOURNAL FIRST EDITION
Thursday, August 17, 2006
MT. MORRIS TWP. - In a few weeks, the World Hunting Association plans to unveil its official sponsors for the first-ever professional sport hunting league, set to premier in October at a Gladwin game ranch.
Eastman Outdoors won't be one of them.
"We want to make it perfectly clear to everyone that we don't have anything to do with it," said Julie Legeret, a spokesperson for the Mt. Morris Township company that makes Carbon Express arrows, Gorilla tree stands and other hunting and camping products.
There's good reason for the company's stance.
Legeret has been conducting damage control since June, when the Southfield-based WHA made waves when it announced the creation of a competitive hunting tour in which bow and rifle hunters would compete for cash prizes using tranquilizer darts to shoot deer on game ranches.
They also announced two Michigan manufacturers of hunting gear - Eastman Outdoors and G-5 Outdoors - would sponsor the tour, and hinted at other sponsors.
No one was more shocked than the folks at Eastman, who said a company representative met with WHA founder David Farbman, but never committed to a sponsorship deal.
"We never told them we were going to be sponsors. We never agreed to anything. We hadn't given them any money or anything," said Legeret. "I'm the one who handles all our donations, sponsor requests and media contacts, and I didn't even know someone here had talked to them when this hit the news."
Within hours of that first news release, an outcry erupted from hunters who felt the concept violated the ethics of fair chase and sportsmanship.
"The backlash was immediate. Every e-mail and phone call coming through our customer service department was about what a bad idea it was, how they were going to boycott our products and not shop in stores that carry our products," said Legeret. "They announced it on Wednesday, and by Friday we had a statement on our Web site that we weren't sponsors."
Legeret said she's still chasing down and snuffing out stray rumors.
"We had to do a lot of repair work to turn everyone's opinion around to make sure they know we don't have anything to do with it," she said. "I still Google articles online everyday to make sure we're not mentioned. Every now and then, our name still shows up from people who still have the original press release.
"To tell you the truth, it's left a bad taste in our mouth and really given us a bad attitude toward the whole thing."
WHA chief operating officer Robert Halsey admitted they've "made a few mistakes," but said the international tournament will open as planned at the Lost Arrow Resort in Gladwin with as much as $600,000 in prizes.
"There was a lot of misconception with some of the folks in the industry when we first announced. Since then, we've learned a lot," said Halsey. "No one has publicly reversed their stand yet, but we've had a lot of meetings and we're expecting more support now for what we can do for the sport of hunting."
The WHA plans to sign up eight professional hunters for the debut tour, including a paralyzed insurance agent who hunts from a wheelchair.
The multi-media concept includes televised events and interactive online gaming to attract youths and nonhunters.
"We're trying to showcase the skills, strategies and tactics of hunting, and show the general public that's it's not just a bunch of guys standing around over a bait pile," said Halsey. "I think the perception is changing among hunters now that the initial backlash has quieted down and they're seeing all the other things we're bringing to the table."
Whether hunters will watch remains to be seen. To date, an online anti-WHA petition has drawn about 1,300 signatures.
"I'm really disappointed because I know that with all the word of mouth, people from across the country know about the petition. But in a country that may have 20 million deer hunters, the number who have signed the petition is pretty insignificant," said Indiana hunter Greg Russell, who launched the online anti-WHA campaign.
"I believe most hunters are against the whole principle, but getting them all willing to be active is pretty tough."
Back in June, Safari Club International's Washington headquarters issued a statement criticizing the concept, but is re-examining its official stance.
"I'm not sure, but I believe they're looking into whether or not it could increase interest in hunting among youth if it's done correctly and ethically," said SCI-Flint chapter president Marc Somers.
"Personally, I haven't spoken with anyone in favor of it."
Eastman Outdoors, meanwhile, isn't budging.
"The hunting community never really got on board with the idea. People just aren't excited about this," said Legeret. "We're just going to stay as far back from it as far as possible.
"Negative attention to the sport is the last thing we need."
Post by: jindydiver on August 19, 2006, 09:38:00 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page?title=World_Hunting_Association&oldid=70677081
Or you can open wiki and search for WHA, guess which page comes up
!["[laffsmyl]"]("graemlins/laffsmyl.gif" "\"\"")
Post by: vermonster13 on August 19, 2006, 11:32:00 PM