Trad Gang
Main Boards => Hunting Legislation & Policies => Topic started by: Darren on August 23, 2007, 01:37:00 PM
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Ok I was at the archery range yesterday and one of the workers behind the counter was working on a bow "compound". This thing had every bell and whistle on it. The guy working on the bow was putting more fiber optic pins and extending them so the owner could collect more light at dusk or dawn "DARK". And then he flipped this switch and a battery operated light came on, I can't help but shake my head.Then the owner of the bow came in and said he would be good out to 80 yards now..........Well then I had to say something and boy did I get an ear full, like that's how you kill the big one if you only have one chance, then the owner of the store said to me, we don't make any money on traditional guys, now that was a slap in the face. Everyone there knows me and my "traditional" bowhunting accomplishments. I just said, I have taken many P&Y animals with no help of range finders,scent lock suits,trail cams, ect. Then I said what ever happened to fair chase. Does anyone here run into the same thing when they are at the range? Don't get me wrong I don't care what kind of equipment hunters are using as long as they are out hunting and enjoying themselves, but when you think you need more stuff / gadgets to kill bigger animals so some company can make more money, I think it is just wrong.
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Your argument, who needs more equipment to get bigger animals. My argument, who needs bigger animals? :)
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Unfortunately, a line in the sand can only be drawn by you. I am so opposed to new gadgets and thingamajigs on compound bows, and hunting items in general, that I still get the catalogs to laugh when in the head. It hurts us all when techno-gadgets are being touted as "needed" equipment. Woodmanship is being lost, survival skills are being lost, and I doubt if even 10% can use a compass or read a map. We have a saying when we teach our hunter ed classes: Mechanical is prone to failure. It not only applies to mechanical broadheads, but to ALL devices, add-ons, bells, whistles, etc... KISS. And what happens when it fails you in the field? Do you pack up and go home, or can you still hunt with it?
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To answer your question, I believe it does not end.
Technology steals the joy. Or at least some of it.
All we can do is hope that eventually a gadget user takes notice of how much more we enjoy our
longbows or recurves, and decides to give it a try. Be there with a smile, and offer any help that you can when he/she does.
Happy trails.
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I know the worst thing that can happen when I am hunting, is that a string might break, Thats when I reach into my pack and get the spare one. And Al you are rite about the compass. I know about 1 in 50 people that know how to use a compass and map. Thanks for the feedback.
Darren
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There are shops that I haven't been into for 20 years because of this.... At a Gander Mountain I got "moved to the front" of a 15 person line - in my opinion - because I was starting to talk to another customer about the differences between using a long bow and a compound.... and he started the conversation by commenting to me about the recurve and two long bows they had hanging on the wall..
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Stick and String with a spare bow in the car and as spare string in the pocket. A couple arrows and that's it. No release to lose, no peep to align, to sight pins to adjust or check to make sure it wasn't "bumped" off by a branch...shall I continue? It sorts takes the fun out of messing up too. I know if I miss, I missed, and can't place the blame on an inanimate object. I just like it that way.
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the reason most shops don't sell more trad stuff is that most hunters are not willing to dedicate the time and effort to get proficient with a more primitive weapon.As for the sights and stuff it can make a good hunter and shot more lethal when used right i don't need that stuff but he is spending his money his way.I love the simplicity of a trad bow it's fun but that's not for everybody with a 100 plus whitetails with a compound bow i got bored with it and started shooting trad and love it we are all in different stages of the journey just have fun Ralph!
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Until a hunter is willing to happily let a large animal (and large is in the eye of the beholder - although I have taken a few P&Y size critters, they were all a result of me just being out there - I am not a trophy hunter) walk at 30 yards he won't be happy being a traditional bowhunter. A lot of the trend toward gadgets and gimmicks is driven by the growing hunting media and emphasis on antlers. Down here in Georgia, we lose a half dozen or so traditionalists every year when their egos just can not handle watching a big buck walk at forty yards. The antlers are more important than the process. Now they might say that if they get within forty, or fifty, or whatever, that they have done their job and deserve to kill the buck. To each his own. Personally, you could put a world record out there at forty yards, hand me a compound, and tell me that I am guaranteed to kill it if I shoot at it and I would pass. I will kill them on my terms or not at all, thank you - which is usually at eight or nine yards with a stickbow. I also believe (but may be wrong) that folks tied up with gadgets and antlers do not have as much fun or get as much satisfaction from the sport as I do. That makes me sad. I do; however, believe folks have the right to hunt however they wish within the law and as long as they are not damaging the resource. My goal has always been not to impune gadget-heads but to try and show them how much fun our sport is and how effective our equipment is. Me and my buddies kill as much as most gadget guys and there is no magic to it. . just a little woodsmanship and patience. . dang, I am getting dizzy on this soapbox - better step off. .
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Here's my take on this. First, if not for the compound shooters bowhunting may not be as popular as it is today. And that's important because we are losing ranks left and right in the hunting community.
It follows that making it "easier" is not all that bad an idea. For the working stiff who works 50 or 60 hours a week and doesn't have time to shoot every day or every other day and who only gets into the woods on Saturdays when everyone else is there... he needs an advantage.
That said, I agree that the widgets, gizmos and doo-hickeys are often overkill (that Knight and Hale arm rest thing kills me) but some hunters may find them useful or needed.
Is it getting too techy? For me and you, yes. I honestly love being in the woods carrying nothing but a hunk of wood and a string. Stalking or still hunting it's just such a joy. Plus I like to hunt birds and small game and a compound isn't really suited to the task.
But I don't begrudge users of technology. Can there be too much of it? Sure. But it's subjective.
I say let the compound shooters keep driving the market. At some point they may all come to the realization that hunting with a stick and string is much more fun and join us. Either way, the bowhunting community keeps its numbers up and we ALL benefit from that.
Since my conversion I have been preaching the gospel of the longbow. A teacher friend of mine asked for help teaching archery at her school. I agreed but on the condition that they learned on recurves the way I did.
So, make friends with the compound shooter. He's not that different. Take him to a trad shoot. Let him see how much fun it is and how LIGHT trad gear is. See if there are any archery programs you can get involved with. At a school, the Scouts, the Y or the PAL.
What's most important is the sport. The choice of equipment is secondary. But trad is better. we all know it.
Okay, who gets the soapbox next?
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Matt Schuster hit the nail on the head with his post.
I wonder if one reason bowhunting may be having a hard time recruiting newbies is because buying a compound bow is expensive enough, and then having to burn another $100 or more just to put all the gadgets on the bow that are "needed" is a daunting prospect. As a kid I shot a bow and had a great time until Dad finally let me take the shotgun out on my own. Predictably, the old Herters recurve bow gathered dust. I then came back to bowhunting in college, and at the time I bought a used Browning compound, a dozen arrows and points, and the only gadgets needed were a shooting glove, arm guard, and a simple sight rack with 3-4 pins. If I still had that set-up and showed up at any 3-D shoot or in any bow shop, they'd laugh me right out of there.
Quite frankly, I think we need to be concerned with keeping bowhunter numbers constant. But I'm not in the camp that says we need to increase our numbers greatly in order to achieve some kind of political clout that won't come anyway. Much of the allure of bowhunting is having the woods largely to yourself and experiencing nature in a 1-on-1 way that is hard to do with the crowded rifle woods.
As to the present, I am bewildered by everything apparently "needed" on the modern compound bow. I am just am so glad I've gone in the other direction. Simplicity is very sweet...
My two cents...
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I Just Know, that I LOVE Watching the Arrow Fly! Archery has Plenty Of Room for EVERYONE who takes a Mind to Do It!!
They are Bashing Us, BUT .........That Doesnt Mean WE Have to Stoop As Low just for a Vengeful Gaff on their Bells, Whistles, and Doo-Hickeys!
The Laughing Stops at the Target, then comes the Determination to "Beat the Tar" out of Our Scores. "Friendly" Competition is a GOOD THING , but Seldom Is It Truely Friendly. I would Love to Shoot Tournament Paper, but it makes No Difference to Me, as Long as WE ALL Keep Things In Perspective! Dont Compare Apples to Cell Phones, Ok? Just My 2 Cents, and I will Shoot Alongside Anyone in the Shop!! :wavey:
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Shakes, I hope I didn't come across as bashing modern bowhunters; that was not my intent. Heck, most of the guys I spend time with locally are compound hunters. My three brothers, one sister, two bros-in-law, and my father shoot wheels. But I honestly believe there are so many parts to a modern compound that it can be overwhelming to many. Not to mention expensive (of course, the price of trad bows is pretty high too). I know, for instance, that my dad would be far better off going back to fingers and a longer axle-to-axle compound; but a bow shop talked him into a release and new bow, and he's been struggling with that now for a couple years. I just think simpler would be better for many bowhunters, even those staying with the compound.
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Hey there Wary,
I'm 65 and shoot a compound but I'll be returning to traditional by building my own (haven't since my teens, I've got the low-tech tools and a bunch of local juniper to put to the test). My friends shoot a little of everything and the point is to enjoy ourselves and build skills and participate in some hilarious "competition", if that's what you want to call it. Prickly pear in Texas makes some good challenge material--gotta be careful!
I agree with the point of a longer (wheel to wheel) bow for your dad, I think he would be so much happier and with quicker--and better results and there are some releases that get him up "on the string" rather than feeling like you're a foot behind the string--yuk! Never let hi-tech bow "sellers" do that if possible, I wihs I wouldn've been with him on that purchase. Inevitiably, they are "selling" not finding the product to fit the person for better results, they're like car salesmen, it's just a gizmo and then there's all the gizmos they sell to hang on 'em.
Cost? Yeah, my little compound cost less than many wonderful longbows/recurves out there and it shoots fine, it just lacks that "pizzazz" that "connection" that captured me so long ago. But the compound came about because of some wounded soldiers in my son's Company. It's a long story and a fun one, but I'm turning this challenge they put on me back around by building a decent self-bow and on the next trip to Ft. Benning to visit, we're gonna get out there and challenge each other again. You see my idea, right? Maybe get them to build there own stuff (more therapy that they don't realize) and then shoot with it, nothing more satisfying.
I feel for your dad struggling like that. Keep on edging him toward a longer bow, then a simpler bow, then...well, you know...
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My problem with compound shooters is that-not infrequently-comes an attitude that I'm not comfortable with. My son and I saw this on opening weekend while out for blacktails in No.CA. We were the only ones with traditional gear. Everybody else was road hunting on ATV's. We had to laugh as they'd drive by, bright red quads toting a fully camo'd compound shooter. If they saw a deer we joked, it'd be "OK, just wait a minute `til I get this thing shut down, and get my self off the saddle...just a few more seconds...can you move a little more to the left?..OK, hold it right there...". While I certainly waved at them, and most of them waved back, I don't see how cruising around the logging roads will help you take a deer! The guy in the camp next to ours would fire up his ATV to ride to the toilet rather than walk-at best, about 100yds! To me, traditional means being hunting a spot with both respect for the environment and the eons-old traditions of hard work, silence, and skill. We've so lost touch with the natural world that it allows us to further alienate ourselves from what little we have left by riding around on a dirt bike rather than walking.
Compounds certainly have a place in the world, and there are those who wouldn't be able to shoot with a traditional bow. There's nothing wrong with that at all. What I'd like to suggest is that those archers who need to take the ATV to the bathroom rather than walk-assuming they aren't disabled in any way-really need to re-learn to walk! If I want fumes, I'll go to the city!
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Technology has come so far and really THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING - Can you imagine that there is no reason that someone could not come up with a built in range finder screen that senses the motion of the heart muscle/lung area and a flashing sign that says "pull trigger now".
Keep the faith and follow your own path!
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Originally posted by Darren:
... I just said, I have taken many P&Y animals with no help of range finders,scent lock suits,trail cams, ect.
I'm not trying to be critical. I understand where you are coming from, but thats exactly why stores don't make as much money on us trad guys. We just don't use most of the equipment and services that they make a profit on. Most stores target the casual shooter or "weekend warrior" hunter because thats where the big profit is. They are the ones most easily lured into buying all those gadgets that will "guarantee" them the bug buck. They are the ones lured into the belief that shooting a faster bow with the latest sight and rest will make up for their minimal if any off season practice.
Per my experience the dedicated shooters of both compound and trad work very hard throughout the year to hone their skills and are extremely particular about the equipment they use. Thats puts both groups in the outer fringe of what most marketers advertise for.
When I shot my compound I had to mail order everything because the stores only carried what I considered cheap and sub-par equipment. I would never let someone else tune my bow.
Now I shoot primarily trad and I still have to mail order everything because now I fall into the other end of the spectrum and still don't use a majority of the items found in most sporting goods/archery stores.
As long as companies can sell the illusion that having the latest and greatest equipment is the only way to be successful the cycle will continue. Consequently shooters at both ends of the spectrum are left to fend for themselves.
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Mitch said it, if it werent for compounds, a lot of people would not be bowhunting. We put about 2500 students through the Montana Bowhunting Education Class each year, and less than 50 percent of them buy an archery license the first year and less that 30 percent the second year.
Why? Because bowhunting is hard. Traditional bowhunting is even harder. Today though, a person new to the sport can go into shop and get all set up with only a measure of draw length and draw weight before shooting an arrow.
With trad gear it requires time, most do not have it or will not take it.
Yes the market is being pushed by the compound shooter, and the ever increasing focus on antler size at any cost, usually at the expense of ethical behaviour.
Gizmos are what the market wants. I remember about forty years ago, when taking a tour of the old Bomber Bait Company, I asked why they painted eyes on the plugs, the man replied "For the fisherman."
Forgive them father, for they know not what they do....
Garo
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Technology has come so far and really THIS IS JUST THE BEGINNING - Can you imagine that there is no reason that someone could not come up with a built in range finder screen that senses the motion of the heart muscle/lung area and a flashing sign that says "pull trigger now".
I'm sure that's just around the corner. And hasn't someone already made a wire range finder that attaches to the bow? If they haven't it could done real easy based on deer's width from brisket to back.
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I don't really think that it is the bowhunter at fault here. We're human after all. Be it a trad guy or a compound guy. The manufacturers have all but taken the money out of your bank account for you. The bowhunter is bombarded with ads, in print, on TV, on the web, and at the pro-shop/range. YOU NEED THIS OR YOU WIILL FAIL!!! That is the mantra being touted. All it takes is one guy to put a new gadget on his bow, go to the range and show it off, then the guy shooting next to him just "has to have it". People get caught up in the madness. I don't knock anybody shooting a stick and string, with or without wheels, it's their choice.
I just think we're getting away from the "primitiveness" of the whole concept of archery seasons. When you rely more on your equipment than your skills, you're asking for trouble.
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Take a look at the Cabelas fall master catalogue.
Crossbows dominate the "archery" section. Whatever
that means, it can`t be good.
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I didn't want to even hint at it, but they're being touted as the "savior" for game agencies. They're placed in archery seasons, increase hunters during those times, kill more deer, and it's another license for them to sell, not to mention the sales for the manufacturers. There, I've said it. I don't want to hijack the thread anymore than I've already done.
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I am new here so before I start, just wanted to say this is a great place and I wish I would have know about it when I started archery.
I resemble a lot of the previous comments. I grew up in a non hunting family with very limited influence from friends. I started off with a compound bow mainly because there wasn't any other type of bows at my local shop. After a lot of trial and error (haha mostly errors) I managed to take a doe and a buck. It was a great accomplishment for me. Unfortunately I fell into the "ohh gotta have that new sight, ohh that release would make me better". It wasn't until I went on a cow elk hunting trip in Arizona with a buddy and his dad that I realized what I was missing. We took a break from hunting and went stump shooting. They let me borrow a bear recurve. I never had so much fun shooting at flowers, clumps of dirt, and of course stumps.
To make a short story long... Don't be too hard on some of those techies, maybe they just don't understand what they are missing. I honestly didn't realize how much excitement could come from such a simple bow. Maybe it just takes someone (like the great members of this forum or my buddy) to make a difference in someone's life.
I recently purchased a recurve from Gordy and an armguard from Mike and cannot wait to start shooting.
I appreciate all the information posted here.
Thanks,
Tad
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Welcome aboard Tad. Glad to have you pull up a stump and shoot the breeze. That turning point was a magical time for you. I'm pretty sure evryone here has had one of those, the lightbulb goes off, and big smile gleams across your face.
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Darren, i had almost that exact conversation 15 years ago in Atlanta, Ga. with a store.....he's right to an extent. I have several friends who own archery stores..traditional guys are "builders" "makers"..We are not a retail dream.... There is a guy on Real Tree Roadtrips with Micheal Waddell..named TBone..he told me same thing from his archery store years ago in Ga..that he couldn't carry much traditional stuff because we rather "make it" than buy it...he was funny about it and good natured but point was direct.....I guess the bottom line is us traditonal bowhunters find it's more important what we take an animal with versus gettin him at all cost like the other side..neither is more right than wrong..
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It will never end. Technology is a substitute for skill. Most people lack skills today and try to make up for that lack of skill by the use of technology. Traditional bowhunters tend to see the joy of learning and using skills that others will never know. Sad but true for the unskilled, walking through life trying to be and do everything they see in print and on TV and making use of anything and everything to have a "preceived" advantage and a warped "illusion" of what it's all about really. Just give them a thumbs up and move on.
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Well let me take a shot at this, just my opinion and that along with a dollar twenty five will get you a large cup of coffee at MacDonalds. While for the most part, none of us have to hunt to eat(although I do eat what I kill and enjoy it)so what is the motivation? I would suggest that it is a combination of instinct, going back to our primal past. We are predators, and predators hunt. Being a little higher on the evolutionary scale, if you believe in evolution, we have the ability to reason far greater than any other animal in the world. We have free wills and freedom of choice. Therefore I would submit that most of us hunt for the challenge. I will go a little further and suggest that we enjoy the competition, but not with one another(although that happens)but the ultimate test. The test of one's skills, and trying to best himself. We of the stick and string are geared more to hunting by doing it with a weapon that is not easily mastered. So I guess we are more geared to the method as opposed to the result. Now before you throw the rotten veggies hear me out, of course we want success, but not to the exclusion of all else, or at any cost.
We are more intuned with the total experience, and having tried and failed our way is far better to us than being sucessful(making a kill)by using a rifle or compound.
I feel everyone has the right to make his or her own choices of hunting tools. However I cannot sit by and say that there will be no consquences for continued use, or more use of gadgets.
Just for the record, there are game departments considering allowing crossbows to be used in general archery seasons. Some of these very same game departments are noticing that our compound toting brothers and sisters are raising the success rate to the point that shorter seasons are being considered. Live and let live, we may regret this attitude one day.
I lost my mind and shot compounds for just shy of ten years, I remember telling people then that if they outlawed compounds most of them would stop shooting or hunting with bows. I followed that with, I would continue with a recurve or longbow, wood arrows, and bear heads.
My fears are real, I am not a elitist. I love my traditional tackle, I am proud of my hunting skills. I also know that what I have, others can do, I am not special. Hunting was never intended to be easy. It should be what it is, nothing more, nothing less. The Archery Industry wants numbers, heck that is how they pay the bills. I want numbers but not at all cost, I want quality members on either side of the equation.
The bow was never intended, or expected to challenge the pistol, rifle, or muzzel loader in range or ease of use. I think most of us would agree that the compound has narrowed the gap. The danger here is simple, when the game departments decide enough is enough, they won't separate stick and string from compound. WE WILL LOSE TOO!
Better to take a little nasty medicine now, than to depend on the surgeon later. NUFF SAID.
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If I am not mistaken, crossbows are already allowed during archery season here in Arkansas... :( But we can save that for another thread...
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Saw a friend from where I used to work that had got a new compound and was telling me it shot so flat he had put on a one hundred yard pin! I don't know how he could see the target with the pin on it.
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Don Thomas wrote a great piece in the last issue of Gray's Sporting Journal about the death of woodsmanship. It was written such that it would offend no person but hit the nail right on the head. It is great stuff and worth leaving around camp for others to read.
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Originally posted by Shakes.602:
They are Bashing Us, BUT .........That Doesnt Mean WE Have to Stoop As Low just for a Vengeful Gaff on their Bells, Whistles, and Doo-Hickeys!
I read quite a few different bowhunting boards and can't ever remember a bunch of compound shooters piling onto a thread and bashing traditional bowhunters. Sadly, the opposite is far from true. No offense to anyone here, but I've shared camp with enough bowhunters (compound and traditional) to know that neither user group has a lock on ethics and responsibility.
Personally, I hunt how I hunt and with what I hunt for one reason: I enjoy it. Others choose different roads because they enjoy a different route. To each his own. I don't have to look down on the next guy to be happy with myself.
Honestly, I think traditional bowhunting would be far better served if its participants would spend more time promoting stickbows, and less time bashing compounds.
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What issue of Gray's was Don Thomas's article? I went and bought the Sept/Oct issue last night to read that article and it wasn't in that one. I might just have to get a back issue. That is a pretty good magazine. I like to read well written stuff. I used to subscribe to Field and Stream just to read Hill Country. Since Gene Hill died I don't get the magazine anymore. I do like the way Don Thomas writes though. His articles are always the first I read in TBM.
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In Agreement with Mr. Wesbrock, I went to a Tourney and watched a Guy shooting his Compound with only a simple arrow rest on it. No Peep Sight, no Nothing! And He was a Darn Fine Shot!!
I still own my Compound with "Bells and Whistles" tucked away in my closet for now. Figure maybe someday Trade Material or something.
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Tad, that's precisely what got me out of compounds! One day I realized how heavy my Hoyt proforce extreme, the arrows the release, the sights, stabilizer, etc. had grown. Put it down for a few years, then bought a Bickerstaffe longbow, and it's been downhill ever since! What a total JOY to run around in the woods with a feather in one hand, and a stick in the other! Makes me imagine I'm one of Robin Hood's merry men, outfoxing the sheriff again. Since I teach medieval history, that's not a stretch of imagination for me, but I do confess I leave the tights at home most of the time-don't look THAT good in lycra :scared: Gave the compound to my daughter's boyfriend. In another month or so, I'll get a new custom Firehawk from Rodney Wright, then it's "Bunnies Beware" until pheasant season!
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in truth we can find good and bad in both traditional and modern bowhunting gear. each of us must find our place as bowhunters and stewards of the land. when all comes down to the shot, it's just the hunter and the animal and weather we are using traditional gear or a compound shouldn't matter.
sometimes, actually most of the time i just sit back and watch as the compounders do what they do. then i step up and loose an arrow without saying a word except for maybe nice shot or something similar. it doesn't take long before the questions start. the can worms gets open and that's where we can recruit. think back to when you first shot that traditional bow.
i shot a compound for 20+ years before finding out what i was missing. we all have to follow a path and some lead right to traditional and others take the long way around and some may never lead to traditional. but what is important is that each of us find peace with the weapon we choose weather it be a bow or firearm or worse yet a crossgun. no i don't like them, but i won't knock someone that uses them either. why should i, i am not God and there fore have no right to judge.
let's all just get a long and use those opportunities that present themselves in a positive manner instead of being negative.
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I'm new to this site and trad archery. This will be my first year with trad gear and I would like to put my two cents in. I grew up in a household of die-hard gun hunters. Bought a bear recurve at 12 and loved it but had noone to help me. Met some friends who shot compounds and bought one. Used both the gun and compound for 15 years or so. Got to the point that I felt that gun hunting wasn't a challenge (if thats the right word to use). Hunted with compound only since. Last year got to the point that hunting with a compound was about the same as a gun. I have always practiced relentlessly with whatever equipment I use. If a deer was within 45 yards it was pretty much a sure thing. After all this rambling I guess my point is: You get into what you are exposed to. Watch the hunting shows on TV. I swear everyone uses a Matt***s bow. Gotta have a fall-away rest. Don't leave the house without a good pair of Swar****i binoculars. Gotta ride to your stand in a small pickup like vehicle. On and on and on. How many trad guys do you see on TV? Until finding this site I knew no-one who used trad equipment. I made the switch due to my own disgust with the technology thing. I think another problem is it seems everyone on TV hunts with so-and-so outfitters. Not knocking outfitters but unless I"m required to hire one I'm doing it myself. But my point is everyone sees that the guys on TV have an outfitter and shoot giant whatevers. Gotta have an outfitter. Plop down $3000, $4000 or more, these guys are going to use the best technology they can. Unless someone just gets sick of it like me or are exposed to traditional archery by a friend or family member it will be the techno route for them.
Rob
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Great feed back everyone. It is not just the bowhunting industry, it is hunting in general. Tonite I just came back from a afternoon duck hunt with my Dog and bird hunting partner Caesar, and I walked passed these two guy's also duck hunting and I herd them laughing because my jacket did not match my pants, and I started to laugh myself because my sock's did not match either.........lol but they dident know that...lol I just thought I would share that. Good luck hunting.
Darren
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Do they even Sell Camo "GarAnimals"?? hahaha THAT is Hilarious Darren!! :biglaugh: I never thought about "Hunting" or "Shooting Anything" was a "Fashion Show". Ya Just Never Know WHERE that "Fashion Bug" Will Bite!
:biglaugh:
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You can't convert those that already come to church. We need to convert those that are not yet members. This also holds true for us. I teach the youth that I work with through boy scouts about survival skills. Saturday, they all start making their own board bows. One step at a time. Be persistent.
Wells
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The article by D.Thomas in Gray's was a few issues back. I will try and find it and let you know. It was an excellent read as most of Gray's usually is.
On another note: I have a couple of friends with national tv shows - actually they are more like infomercials - and they have asked me several times if I want to be on them but that I can't dress like a homeless hunter in my old non-camo clothes (old Dockers & plaid shirts) so I decline. I tell'em that I don't need matching camo with my name on a shirt because I already know who I am.
I don't have a problem with most legal bowhunters, but I do think the prevelance of videos/tv that glorify antlers and technology is not a good long-term development for our sport. It is hard to explain to a non-hunter what a walk-in-the-woods, substanance hunter like me does, when all they see are high-tech, antler-motivated, product pushers on tv. I don't see what can be done about it, since we live in a capitalist society where folks are free to do their own thing and it sure looks like outdoor tv is popular so a lot of folks must like it.
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My grown sons and I were having a conversation about this one night this week and pretty much agree with Matt...in fact, I'm kinda sick of heart at what hunting has become and I've grown a lot more partial to an 80 lb pig in the big swamp than some farm grown pampered white tail with mutant antlers. I've killed my share and ya'll are pretty much welcome to what's left. Jeff Foxworthy used to be pretty funny, but that "Whimps of Tecomate" show is one of the best examples of what I have come to loathe about "modern" hunting. Sorry about the rant; it's about time for me to getlost in some big woods.
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Hogtamer, you are right. I had a booth at the Buckarama in Atlanta (selling shoes, not hunting stuff) and came to the realization that, in general, I don't care for hunters all that much. I hate to say that, but it is the truth.
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"Buckarama;" grrrrrr...maybe we can start our own club, "Misanthropic Hunter of America." I'll call that old Greek curmudgeon Dean T. He'll ride down here just to join and go squirrel hunting with us for a week.
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Sounds to me that the fancy wheel shooter was just a big ol' blow hard. There's plenty of those types just about everywhere you go. 80 yard BS talk!!
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I shoot both a compound and a recurve and I'm pretty darned good with either one. Of course, with my compound, I can shoot 3/4" groups at 20 yards, and 5" groups with my recurve at that distance. And I only just picked up my recurve last summer. I don't tell compounders that their equipment are "training wheels." Neither do I tell the traditionalists that they'd get better groups if they went with a compound. People are going to use what they're comfortable with. I happen to be very comfortable with either one. I'm not going to tell a crossbower that's it's wrong to use it. They're all tools to the same ends. If we start picking nits with each other, that's all the cue the antis will need to continue their "divide-and-conquer" strategy. ALL of us hunters have to stick together. Who cares who hunts with what?? I'd go out with a slingshot if I had to. If we keep this up, we'll have hurt our sport more than the antis ever will.
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I used to go to the public shoots, but I got moched and harrassed by shooters that cheated on their scores as a group. that day I developed a bad flinch and distinct disrespect for the money shooters. The next shoot was more of the same and the flinch got worse.. John Schluz suggested that I never go back to competitive events. I have shot 18 deer in ten years since I got that advice. I went three years in row with none because of the flinch. I do get pushed around out the feild by compund guys with all their tree stands that never take out of public woods, they just don't like to share, with all these "advantages" maybe they should hunt with the gun hunters. If DNR people start believing the hype it amy happen.