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Main Boards => Hunting Legislation & Policies => Topic started by: Bard1 on November 14, 2007, 01:39:00 PM
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Ok, so my hunt last night was busted by a pair of dogs, and they did it to me again this morning. This is in a rural farming area and I am sure they belong to someone, but they have no collars or tags. They are crossing onto private property. I am sure there are laws agains harassing wild life, though I don't know specifics. I am thinking of driving around and seeing if I can find the owners and having a chat with them. Any other ideas aside from shooting the dogs? I have considered it, but if I really wanted to do that I have had more then enough chances.
Derek
Derek
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I bet most responses here will be shoot shovel shutup...
I am a dog person, but lived in an area were there are lots and lots of stray dogs and cats. I've come across aggrsive dogs before...which i dispatched. broke my heart...Once there were two labs..a big male and a small female...the big male tried to bite me and I shot him the female was a sweety, and took her to the local shelter.
it would suck if you shot some kids dog. You could probably tell by looking at the condtion of the dog if it is stray...things like is the coat shiny, is the dog ameciated, will it come if called (not charge but come), sit, stay...blah blah blah...if it is a pet catch them and call dog catcher...if not a pet dispatch them
just dont blame the dog...it's hunting too...blame the iresponsable owners
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Wow tough one. I don't think i could shoot a dog. But puting one in a shelter is just about the same. I think i would try to find the owners, they have to be close. If they don't respect your request to leash the dogs then I would call animal controll.
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Touchy subject. Growing up my dog was shot on two different occasions. The little horney bugger kept breaking his leash then going out in the woods. Didn't help that he looked kind of like a 'yote! I can't remember my father getting mad about it. I know I was sad (I was a wee little one at the time).
I was under orders from a landowner for the last two seasons to shoot two dogs on sight. Their owners didn't do a thing to keep them on their property, the dogs were harassing wildlife AND the property owner's animals. Animal control said they'd have to catch 'em in the act... flat out told the property owner to make sure the carcasses weren't found and to stop calling them!
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If it's private property you're hunting, discuss this with the owner of the property first. He lives there and will bear the brunt if they belong to a neighbor. If everyone is in agreement that something must be done, DO NOT SHOOT THE DOGS WITH A BOW!!!!!!!!!!!! Use a gun, bury them, and say nothing more about it.
You wound a dog with a bow and you will bring all kinds of grief down on bowhunters. There is no mistaking an arrow wound in a dog and no doubt it was caused by a hunter. Use the same method any farmer or other property owner in the area would...a gun.
If it's on public land, do nothing at all. Report it to the Division of Wildlife or other agency and leave it to them.
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Several years ago I dropped my wife off at a stand and I walked to another.Getting to a big clearing with the stand at a creek crossing on the far side,I saw two deer come thru the crossing at a hard run and pass me.Then 4 large dogs,looking like litter mates,came thru. I pulled out two Judos,thinking I could shoot close to them and give them a good scare. Seeing the movement they immediately came for me,and you could tell they were serious. I shot one at 18 yds. and the next at about 5 yds.,getting some penetration both times.Then they all ran off,and thankfully the arrows fell out. All I could think about was my wife was originally going to hunt that stand. I went back later with a varment call and a rifle,called them up and killed them all.Did`nt feel good about it,but it needed to be done. Now this year we have a bitch and 3 nearly grown pups running the deer where we hunt.It`s ruined several evening hunts. A sheriffs deputy aquaintance told me to drive around and look for the dogs at area residences and let him know where. If he can see them loose at the house he would press charges himself for unrestrained pets. I sure hope it works as I dont want to have to shoot anymore dogs.
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I had a similar event a few years back. I had caught two dogs running deer on our property on numerous occasions and had found several deer carcasses. I knew who owned the dogs and talked to them on two different occasions with no results.
I then contacted the game division and was told they could do nothing unless they caught the dogs in the act and recommended I contact the dogs owners. I told them I'd been there and done that already. I was then told that they did not have the manpower or time to pursue the issue.
After two years of this I finally caught the dogs running a doe and two yearlings on my property right under my treestand. I put an end to finding dead deer on my property.
Dennis
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I can understand that if a dog is menacing a person that it should be put down, but I really don't understand the mentality that a dog chasing a deer should be killed. By that logic all of the hunters in the woods should be shot as well. Are we really that afraid of a little competition or are we in danger of starving to death if we don't harvest a deer?
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Wow, how a difference of where you live or what you are used to puts a different spin on something? I noticed most everyone who has posted to this point is from a non-deer hound state. This topic is a very heated one this year in Va. The Game Dept has actually accepted the idea that there has to be something done, and they are taking a critical look at it this comeing year. I no longer run deer with hounds but did so for many years. I gave it up roughly 10-15 years ago and will never go back.. With that said, even though I was once a "Hound Hunter" I have no patiences for someone else's dog missing up my hunt. The Shoot Shovel Shutup practice is in no way legal here in Va, not saying I have done it but it does work. I think the debate on this issue will come down to one simple question. What is a hunter's (and landowner's)right? Does a non- dog hunter or property owner who does not want dogs on their land or messing up their hunt have that right? For me it's a no brainer. YES, a landowner and or a hunter on private property who does not want dogs negatively impacting their hunt or activity should have that right. However, although the number of folks who I think agree with this rationale has risen in resent years I am not sure they are as loud as the Dog Hunters. I worry that the hound hunters tend to yell louder, make a bigger scene and unfortunately have a more organized voice just by the nature of their existence. If you want some interesting reading do a search on some Va Boards. It tends to quickly become of heated debate, with name calling and threats posted. It would not surprise me if this doesn't lead to some dangerous arguments in the field before it's settled.
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pdk25 I can understand your feelings, and this is in no way meant to be an attack but Deer death by dog is a horrible death. These dogs still have the chase instinct but have never learned how to kill and generaly make a very poor job of it. They may actually catch and pull down a deer several times over the course of miles but being unsure as to how to go about killing it the deer gets up and the chase starts again until the deer can't go on and the dogs evenutally manage to get the job done. I am not trying to villify dogs, we are the ones who not only made them cheap imitations of wolves but we also let them breed indiscriminantly and them roam far and wide harrassing wildlife.
Brian
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brmize states the facts exactly. The dogs I wrote about earlier were that way and I would find patches of hair that would eventually lead to a dead deer and the deer would be uneaten. I found deer of all ages this way, from fawn to full grown. I tried all my options to remedy this situation.
I have no doubt that these dogs would have done the same to sheep or calves if they were near and was confronted by one of the dogs when all I had was a fishing pole. I very seldom go afield without a sidearm now unless I am bowhunting.
Kansas has a law that forbids letting pets chase game and I am pretty sure that a landowner has the authority to dispatch a dog that is harrassing game or livestock on his land. Most everyone I know will try to contact the owner about such actions but will not tolerate repeat offenses.
We are having this problem right now on the company land where I work. The owner was notified but has taken no action. I have had two of the last three hunts disrupted by his two dogs, one was this evening. So, what is the cure??
Dennis
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We had the problem for yrs,at the ranch i grew up on.As was stated earlier,Most states have wildlife harrasment laws.The warden will issue a citation to the Dog owners,if they know who they belong to.Back in the 70's the warden fined the owners,if known,and then told us to shoot re offenders.Once dogs get a taste of the chase,n especially the kill,there is no stoppin them,short of Being Penned all the time.
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Feral dogs are no better than coyotes. Shoot them and be done with it. The last thing you need is to be attacked by one. Or worse, one of your kids being attacked by one. Once they've gone feral, they're fair game.
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Talk to the land owner. Talk to the people in the area. Talk to Fish and Game/Local animal control. Ask F&G if video of the dogs in the act will get them out their.
You are not going to get a verbal/written green light to shoot the dogs from F&G or Animal Control. You may get a non verbal greenish/yellow light if they think you have done your homework and the animals have crossed the imaginary line.
If it was me and I continued to see them acting as wild dogs and I had done my homework I would take them out.
I only say this because I have seen what happens when this gets out of hand. In Okinawa Japan the stray dog/cats are everywhere and sick/diseased. I was a Conservation Officer on Anderson AFB, Guam for a few months and I had a permit to shoot any (Boonie)stray Dog, (Boonie) stray cat that I saw roaming the jungle. The stray dogs and cats are in great numbers on the island. The dogs hunt in packs like wolves. They will catch many deer and kill/eat a few and mutilate the rest leaving them lay half dead. The cats have assisted the brown tree snake in the near extinction of most of the native birds on the island. They devastated a group of Guam Rails that had been re-introduced in a small protected area on the base.
I saw dozens of Boonie dogs and cats while I was there with no intentions of killing them until one very rainy day in the jungle. A pack of Boonie Dogs were using the rain because the guam deer hold up under bushes, deadfall and in small caves during bad weather. The dogs are silent except when they communicate with each other like wolves. When I saw the dogs in action and that they were just domestic dogs packed together I quickly changed my mind. I was on base in a bow hunting only area so I started hunting the dogs and I got two of them while they were killing two different deer. We would find deer all over that had been killed(rear end, hind quarters ripped to pieces but not eaten).
When I was young I was walking down a RR track and witnessed my buddies farm dogs killing a cow in a farmers field. I ran out there and yelled there names and threw rocks at them. They finally stopped and ran off. The cow was in bad shape. I ran up to my friends house a couple miles away and told my friend and his dad. The farmer showed up later with the dead cow and said it was worth at least $600.00 so how were we going to make this right. My friends dad said I dont have the money but I will take care of the dogs if you want. The farmer said O.K. He went in the house got his 12 ga. and called the dogs into the front yard and shot them both right in front of the farmer. The farmer got back in his truck and drove away.
Someone needs to be accountable for these dogs that roam wild or that are actually wild. Make the owners accountable and if that don't work (SSS)!
All Im saying is that as soon as those animals are considered wild then the same species that allowed them to get that way(MAN) needs to correct the problem!! and it looks like you are in the drivers seat on this one brother....AKbearb8
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One other option you may try Derek is to try and trap them. If you see them in a certain area more than once you might be able to trap at least one of them. If I planned to take them to an animal shelter I would make sure to use a catch stick to remove them from the trap.
Dennis
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I guess everyone has to try to evaluate their true motives in this debate. Is it really that we are concerned for the suffering of the poor deer? Is it really that we are in fear of being attacked while hunting? Or is it really, and I feel somewhat more likely, that we are afraid that our hunting is being negatively impacted.
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Honestly, and I think Jeff and Dennis will back me up on this, our state(KS) has too many deer. I in no way begrudge coyotes, bobcats and heck even the cougars people "claim" to see in KS their share of the deer. However, dogs that kill indescriminately and cruelly are an introduced predator that is not only inefficient but destructive. That's just how I see it. Agree to disagree I guess.
Brian
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In Vermont it is illegal to run deer with dogs. Dogs found doing so don't get to go to the pound, they are shot on site by wardens and hunters are encouraged to do the same. Doesn't matter what your motivation is, feral dogs are a destructive force as are feral cats. As said earlier it's human fault they are there and should be dealt with by us. Many native species pay the price for people not taking responsibility for their animals of many kinds. Look up the thread on feral horses for another kind of destruction being done in the southwest by animals abandoned generations ago and people getting all fuzzy over them now and not letting them be dealt with.
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In my case Pat, I have had to deal with the aftermath of destructive dogs. Growing up in a rural setting and helping tend cattle, sheep, and hogs with my family and friends I have had enough of picking up the remains of calves and sheep or putting down those that are still alive after a dog attack. It is not a pretty sight and it is a costly matter to the farmer/rancher.
I know too the negative impact that free ranging dogs can have on wildlife and yes that does affect hunting. Unless you have seen the results of this on a deer or calf you have no clue to the ferocity and violence of such an attack.
Like I said before, I will first contact the owner of the dogs involved in such happenings up to two times and call the game authorities and report it. If the owner refuses to correct the situation there is no other recourse.
I am in no way afraid of being attacked while out in the woods but one thing is sure. When I am facing a snarling dog in the wild while holding nothing but a fishing pole the farthest thing from my mind is "aww, poor doggy".
Dennis
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The law in Michigan mirrors what Vermonster said.
Dogs running loose WILL negatively affect hunting in any area in which they roam. That alone IS reason enough to stop it.
I love dogs, they are far more trustworthy than most people.
If dogs are running amuck in your hunting area, its going to be up to you to stop them, because they certainly won`t do it on their own. Stop them however you must.
If it is illegal for you to use deadly force to stop them, then DEMAND that animal control does it for you. Its what you pay taxes for. If they tell you that they must catch the animals in the act, then you have no choice, as they will not stop on their own.
Sometimes what is legal is not right, and sometimes what is right is not legal.
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PDK25, Spoiled hunting for humans is not the big/important issue here. It is very aggravating to have it happen to you when you put a lot of effort into a hunt though. These animals roam day and night. They are very wise and remember there domesticated training and benefits and are not afraid to venture into domesticated areas for comfort but will always return to the forest to ravage the wildlife. I have seen LAbs, German Sheppards, Pit bulls and Rotwielers that were at least 75% wild in the woods and were full of hate. I have had dogs track me and come to the bottom of my tree stand and look up at me and growl. Up in Northern New York they have Coydogs(Coyote/Dog) that are now established in that area and a nuisance.
I have hunted with dogs for bobcats, ducks, doves, deer, rabbits and raccoons over the years in Georgia, North Carolina and Ohio. I love hunting with dogs. I have always owned dogs as pets.
Hunters/Farmers/Pet Owners have all got to be 100% responsible for their animals. They must have control of their animals or pay the price if something happens because of the animal. They should spare no expense and effort in training their animals so they can keep control and exhaust all possible measures to find the animal if it gets lost.
Here in Alaska the Dept of Fish and Game are very active in preventing any feral non-native species from colonizing here.
As I mentioned earlier Guam has a very aggressive approach towards feral non-native animals. We had depredation teams that would shoot deer and pigs along with the Boonie dogs and cats every night 360 days per year. They were all destroying the jungles on the entire island. They were over populated in a big way.
Whos to say that it cant get that bad at least in some areas of the US if we don,t act responsibly now. Im not saying blast everything that spoils your hunting area(dogs,coyotes,cats). Game and non-game animals are managed well in most states but the "GREY" area is the Domestic animals that are making it into the wild and are not being managed and throw off the balance in an area. They will exterminate deer, rabbits, quail, turkeys, cattle etc.
Im just saying that once a person has seen these activities several times and has exhausted all measures in finding the owners or a non-lethal ending then the person should take care of the problem by killing the dogs as quickly and humane as possible. You cant just turn away and let someone else deal with it just because its a domestic dog and resembles the family pet(SSS)..AKbearb8
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i belive if you have a dog spoil your hunt oh well they have just as much right to wander out and about as you they cant read private property sighs or know that a high wire fence means stay out, this is one matter. the owner of the land would then have to complain and the dogs be restrained, just because a dog or two is wandering by a tree stand doent mean they want to mangle a fawn, nor does it mean they wont. if you witness or know they are causing trouble and the owner does nothing, kill them, any way that gets it done if you dont think you should shoot it with a arrow than you probably shouldnt try and kill anything else either. the dogs around here hassle cow and calf moose, many times the dogs get what they deserve from the mother, so does the owner, they usualy have to drag their rear legs home and the owner has to deal with them. the packs that learn their lesson then become a direct threat, last winter i had a pack come try to lure my lab out of the entryway, i went around back and the biggest badest dog in the pack was waiting around the corner, i put a judo between his ham and base of tail, later that same day they came back, they showed direct agression twards me. I shot another in the neck with the judo. the very next day they chased my wife down the road when she was on a run with our 10 month son in the stroller. over the next week i began using broadheads, i got two, the other four got smart and started coming at night or other houses. i set up a couple 55gal drums with some old fish and a trap door, when i would catch a dog i would make shure it was one of the four, many times it wasnt haah twice it was my own. if it was a bad one i would back up the ford, run a hose from the tailpipe to the barell.
anyway if they definatly bad seeds dont just take them out when convinient, persue them. I cant stand it when i hear about a good dog being killed by other or worse a kid.
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There's a huge difference between a dog screwing up your hunt and a dog running deer. If you're talking about a dog that happens to run through your woods by your stand, there is no way I would shoot it...even if it was on my land. More than likely its a neighbors dog, and I'd hate to have to tell the neighbor kids that I shot their dog because it screwed up my hunt. However, if I catch a dog running a deer, I'll shoot it and not look back.
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Most of us here know at a glance if a dog is feral or not. If feral shoot it, if not let it be. A dog by nature will chase things from a ball to a deer, it comes natural. I see very little difference in another hunter chasing deer than a dog.You wouldn't shoot another hunter?
When it comes to cats, shoot them, period. Cats that roam will kill anything they can just because they can. They count for more dead wildlife than any other animal,this is documented,not just my opinion.The sad thing is, it is not the cats fault, it is the stupid negligence of man.Cats, like all of this worlds creatures have their place but it is not in the woods!
"Getting a dog, is the nearest thing to picking your relatives as it gets"
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Here in Idaho; if you shoot a dog without the permission of the law; your in deep legal trouble.
A deer has monetary worth here; but so do dogs. It is hard to train dogs to chase bears and lions and cats- without having them get onto a deer now and then.
I have pointers; german wirehairs; and I have seen deer run to my dogs; and punch them with their front feet. So I can tell you that sometimes the DEER starts the fight; and the chase.
My dogs are purebreds; and expensive dogs. I have charged $1000 dollars as a stud fee; and sold pups for $850 dollars. They are indoor pets as well as hunters. If I am out bird hunting; and deer chases them and a chase ensues- and somebody shoots my dog- I am not going to be a nice person to be dealing with. Think about it; do you want to be paying a dog owner for pain and suffering: and punitive damages; and the value of the dog.. etc etc etc?
Here in Idaho; I can see deer for a mile or more when I am hunting; and my dogs will range out a hundred yards or more to find; and 'lockup' on birds.
With those kind of distances involved - I can see things and how they develop. Its not always Bambi and thumper frolicking in the grass - and the mean dog shows up. It is often the deer used to wolves and coyotes; that not only stands its ground - but charges the dogs: while they are hunting birds.
When I was much younger; I saw a group of dogs chase and tear apart a cow; and I did not shoot the dogs; and boy! I heard about that!
I have also spent the night sewing up sheep belonging to a farmer that let me hunt on his property; and who had two german shepards kill and tear apart dozens of his sheep.
Like I say here it is now NOT legal to shoot someones dog- even if its chasing your livestock- let alone wildlife.
But even in a state where its legal; if you shoot a dog; you better be rich enough for a good lawyer. Dogs are pets and mans best friend; and if you want your face rubbed in the mud- then get caught shooting one- legally or not!
If the owner of the dog is there; you might need a good doctor.
There are times when dogs have to be shot. But dogs have run from one side of this country to the other to find their masters. If you gun down Lassie just before she finds Jeff--- your going to be on the cover of the PETA news; and could end up on CNN with your concern over the deer; and your deer license to prove your 'loving intent' towards deer.... if you get my drift.
Shoot shovel and shut up? Better do it fast; that hole might just get big enough for you: if the owner gets there before your done.
I am hopefully clearly stating the situation you might well face: if you decide to shoot a dog.
For the record; if my dogs start to chase a deer: they get a lead peppering; and know I am pretty ticked off. But they live...
I think shooting a dog is the worst political thing you can do as a hunter. Think about it real hard before you act.
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Wow how things differ depending on where you live for sure. However, just to point out the contrast, Va State Code orders that any dog found chasing livestock or killing poultry is to be killed on sight. As you read below keep in mind the State Code does not even give the Officer the choice. It states the "officer shall kill". Powerful words regarding dogs.
3.1-796.116. Dogs killing, injuring or chasing livestock or poultry.
It shall be the duty of any animal control officer or other officer who may find a dog in the act of killing or injuring livestock or poultry to kill such dog forthwith whether such dog bears a tag or not. Any person finding a dog committing any of the depredations mentioned in this section shall have the right to kill such dog on sight as shall any owner of livestock or his agent finding a dog chasing livestock on land utilized by the livestock when the circumstances show that such chasing is harmful to the livestock. Any court shall have the power to order the animal control officer or other officer to kill any dog known to be a confirmed livestock or poultry killer, and any dog killing poultry for the third time shall be considered a confirmed poultry killer. The court, through its contempt powers, may compel the owner, custodian, or harborer of the dog to produce the dog.
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Brian Krebs, that is not correct..
Idaho Code 25-2806 (2)" ANY PERSON, on finding a dog not on the premises of it's owners property or possesor, worrying, wounding or killing any livestock or poultry which are raised and kept in captivity for domestic or commercial purposes, may, at the time of finding said dog, KILL the same and the owners thereof can sustain no action for damages against any person so killing such dog.
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my understanding is that if dogs are interrupting your animals IE: trying to kill your animals you have that right. the rest i am not sure on. if it were me i would have to take out the animals only after i tried to contact and see if the owner or owners would take control of their animals or if no one claimed ownership then i would rake matters into my own hands and leave them for yote food
rob k
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Idaho Fish and Game Regulations, page 12
Any dog found running at large and actively tracking, pursuing,harasssing, attacking, or killing ANY big game animal EXCEPT, Black Bear. Mountain Lion, may be destroyed Without Criminal, or Civil Liability, by the Director,any peace officer, or others persons authorized to enforce Idaho wildlife laws.
In other words, any time a dog chases wildlife in Idaho except those allowed, That dog could be destoyed no matter what the value..
I hunt bird dogs also, pups do wierd things, deer starting chases, whatever , in the right place wrong time could be destroyed.
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that would and could be nice, ROB K, but, it doesnt happen that way. We have some that shoot, and then call the police, sheriff, and The dead dog cant talk.. The shooter is protected, unless witnesses say otherwise..
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BigCnyn
My dogs live on 3.5 acres; and run the fence line everyday. My neighbors horse loves to run with them; their is a path worn into the ground by the horse doing this. One fine day my neighbor saw the horse running along with the dogs; and threatened to shoot them.
Keep in mind the dogs were on my property and in the lead; ignoring the horse; and as well MY livestock.
The deputy that showed up said that if my neighbor did shoot my dog(s) he was going to lose in civil court; as the law had changed concerning shooting dogs.
I took this to be the truth.
The fish and game law is as you stated- for the officers to carry out; and while they may pass that to a regular person- they have to pass it on; you cannot act on that rule by yourself.
( not that you implied it)
The law you referenced is in regard to livestock and poultry; but I knew a woman ( Theresa Teevan) that was an assistant to the attorney general; and she said the law had been changed to NOT include poultry.
I think if a dog is in chase of livestock: the dog is not going to be the winner of anything.
Laws change in Idaho; and laws change without the consent of the people. The fish and game has the habit of suggesting laws be changed; and the commissioners might change the law in the regulations- without any legal change in the law.
Then too; laws are passed in Idaho that contradict the Idaho constitution.
Sentator Craigs situation proves that politics in Idaho.. is well... not as it is in other states. Take the wolves........please :)
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Well,, I am a court Marshall,
and I asked my sitting judge for his interpretation, he looked at the current Idaho Code Book, the current Idaho Law Supplement, so the law that I stated is indeed in tact.. If the dog is on someone else's property disturbing livestock/poultry , that person or any person protecting that stuff may shoot them.. Then its their burden to state what happened. so if they are on your property they are safe.. on someone else's???
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"Then its their burden to state what happened": perhaps that burden has increased?
The truth is obvious in this: either way- Brian is right ! :D
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One word of advise from an old K9 handler DO NOT attempt to catch these dogs. Even friendly dogs bite. You don't want to loose fingers or if a pack maybe even your life. Ignore them, get the DNR/Police involved, call every day if necessary, or shoot them "Gun".
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thanks everyone for your replys. I am assuming these dogs live in the area since I have seen them on the property before. I haven't seen sprinting after deer, merely trotting along following their scent. They won't come to me, I tried that. They do not look starved. The property is my fathers. I am back home here in Cali now so there isn't much for me to do. At least I have a better idea what to do in the future should it happen again.
thanks.
Derek
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The last two years we hunted our property in Kentucky the hunt was runied by dogs CHASING deer, not just wandering by.
$200 each for mine and my sons tags, 16hrs round trip driving,$150 in gas,$200 motel cost, and more for incidentals, food ect. All to sit and watch two dogs running deer all over our place.
A fellow two houses down who showed me his dog said "If you see my dog running deer on your property, shoot him." I will try and go there in the summer and talk to more people in the area. If they are still there, they wont go to waste. I'm sure the coons and possums will have a feast on em.
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basically i live in the country, have 3 acres, its not fenced. It was a nice quite place when i bought it found deer tracks right beside the house. Thenn in the spring a neighbor got atleast 5 or 6 pups of various breeds, they run wild get on my porch in my trash. They are starving and there owner wont do anything. started with an airsoft gun to run them off, now up to a high draw wieght slingshot. They run when they see me. But the kids like to play in the woods when they are here, the dogs chase them. I dont like the idea of putting the dogs down but when you step out on your own land and get charged or growled at.... one of these days i might not stop them with the slingshot.
My wife contacted the sheriff, he said if they are on your land,destroying property or getting into trash, take them out. period
thinking of stepping up to some bunnie busters.
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I guess I need a different way to say this.
People get really upset when a stupid duck gets an arrow in it; what was the reaction of the country when Michael Vick used dogs for fighting?
You want to shoot dogs; go ahead. You might well do the absolute worst thing for hunters that you could possibly do.
Laws concerning the shooting of dogs are old; and now we live in a day where dog is truely mans best friend.
If you shoot someones dog; you had better be prepared to deal with the dogs owner; and with their attorneys ( right or wrong - you still could end up paying attorneys fees) and stimulating people to give money to anti-hunting organizations ( like with Micheal Vicks situation).
You risk your own life; you risk revenge; you risk hunting.
But go ahead - do what you think is right.
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Originally posted by Brian Krebs:
You want to shoot dogs; go ahead. You might well do the absolute worst thing for hunters that you could possibly do.
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Brian,
With all due respect, I think you are wrong.
A few years ago, there was a hunter who shot and killed another hunter because they got in an argument. The gun control lobbyists had a field day. Every time there is another shooting in a mall, school or post office, they go on a rampage to try to limit our right to bear arms. We aren't talking about Lassie out for a stroll here. We are talking about a dangerous animal that will, given the chance, kill. Would you think twice about it if it came after your child? your spouse, or you? If it was a grizzly, mountain lion out of season, would you hesitate? It's really not about hunting. It's about animal control.
I love dogs. Right now I have 3 of them sleeping at my feet. I have had dogs my whole life, lived with them, trained them, hunted with them and slept beside them.
I have watched expensive hunting dogs attack livestock on our farm and kill it. I have seen pure bred dogs and mutts alike attack children and adults.
Hear my heart when I tell you that I DO NOT want to shoot a dog but I will shoot to kill any dog who attacks another animal or person without just cause. Even if it's my own - very much loved pet. Sometimes you have to do what is right even when it is hard. I'll take the consequences any way they come to me.
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Mrs Stickman
I can answer some of your questions with facts.
1. the Idaho department of fish and game has used my self defense killing of a mountain lion; with my bow- as an example of when you should kill a mountain lion- even if it is out of season.
2. I once killed a doberman pincher that had a hold of a friends leg.
3. I have killed many of my own dogs when it came their time. And few people allow dogs into their heart and life as I have.
When Michael Vics 'hobby' was discovered; it was a pretty sickening sight. CNN told people that they could help by donating money to two of the biggest anti-hunting organizations in the country. I checked out those sites; and they both made it clear the money they got would be spent the way they wanted.
I would not hesitate to kill my own dog if I thought it nessesary; and I have four in my little cabin; and 4 puppies in the kennel outside.
My youngest son is a professional trapper; and he traps cats and dogs that are loose on private property. Sometimes intentionally at the request of the land owner; and sometimes as incidental catches. With foot hold traps; properly set and configured he has returned many pets to their owners. Dogs and cats that got loose; and wandered off; dogs lost while hunting; animals that jumped out of vehicles - and they were animals that were quite capable of returning to their owners and never being a problem again.
Other cats and dogs had to be either taken to the 'pound' ; or destroyed because of their behavior.
A friend of mine went hunting ( from Michigan) in South Dakota for pheasants this last fall. His old female griffon got onto a bird and didn't return. He searched for days for it; and had to return to Michigan without her. A farmer reported seeing her; and he went back and found a hay pile with a deer laying next to it; with its antlers cut off; and a bullet hole in it. His dog was not there; but it had been feeding on the deer and sleeping in the hay pile.
He returned to Michigan again; after leaving posters and talking to local farmers. He was fortunete to get a call - his dog was found; and he got her back; but he ended up driving over 5000 miles in the process.
People love their dogs! I grew up in the fifties with 'Jeffs collie' and reading books about Lassie and Lad; and Donnybrook.
To see and shoot a dog trespassing on your property might be well within your rights; but I am saying that when you do; you take the chance of killing someones best friend. You take the chance of alienating people; and making enemies.
Also you take the chance of angering people to the point they might strike back with equal force. And too the chance people will move from a neutral stance on who you are to a negative one.
If your a hunter; it might well be a move to becoming an antihunter.
Yes; I have stayed up all night sewing up sheep torn apart by loose pet dogs. I know what they can do. I know what has to be done sometimes.
I also know the deep wounds it can create- whether the situation was right or wrong or just unacceptable to the person that does the shooting.
I am strongly saying that if you do decide to shoot a dog; do it after serious thinking; because you could end up very dead; you could end up with people becoming anti-hunters; and you could end up being the center of contraversy that ends up benefiting anti-hunters.
The only real thing I disagree with you on is that it very well could be a 'lassie out for a stroll' situation. Some people are just looking for targets; and if you don't understand that; you need to - to understand the gravity- of what I am saying.
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I had a friend that was forced to stay in a very uncomfortable tree for a night. A pack of pure bread rotwellers or is rottingwellers, kept at him from late in the day long into the night. He did not think he could shoot because they had collars. They came off a rented farm house occupied by druggies a mile away. My friend was so disturbed that he got himself drunk, later that night he died in his house when it burned out. I went after those dogs with a gun or actually they went after me, I had a gun. Thinking back on it I should have gone after the druggies as well.
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The point has been made for both sides and it is now gone more than enough down hill.