Trad Gang
Main Boards => Hunting Legislation & Policies => Topic started by: Redeye on January 17, 2009, 07:22:00 AM
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http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?id=4304
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I'm getting the feeling that the guy who wrote that article has never even picked up a crossbow.
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yep.. one hole groups at 100 yards is what they are touting. Sounds pretty handicapping to me.
This whole premise that they are bows is disgusting and ridiculous. One hole groups at 100 yards means shots will be taken to 150 yards. These are outcompeting earlier shotguns / slugs and earlier muzzleloaders.
Gotta stop now, I can feel some cussing coming on.
ChuckC
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Just another reason to NOT be a member of the NRA. Its a money organization, with a shooting rights history. How much kickback did they get from the crossbow industry. Just like that PSE/AR-15 Hybrid. Do they honestly think it belongs in the wood during archery season?
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Like I said 25 years ago - they are re-inventing the rifle.
This is thing is hideous.
And the demonstrator called it a "gun" more than once.
And no Owlbait - I can't see anyone thinking these things belong in archery season.
170 pounds- 412 feet per second- one hole groups at 100 yards....???
Honestly - go to a rifle range and see what accuracy most people get with a rifle. As a military veteran with competitive shooting experience; and as a police officer with competitive shooting experience; and as a long time hunter.... I can say with certainty that a one hole group at 100 yards is seldom (if ever) accomplished with a rifle.
And they want to call this a bow? And there are really people that want this in the bow season?
Rifles and the NRA seek accuracy at long ranges; and this contraption does that.. but is it appropriate for bow seasons?
NO !!!!!!!!!!
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"Just another reason to NOT be a member of the NRA. Its a money organization, with a shooting rights history. How much kickback did they get from the crossbow industry. Just like that PSE/AR-15 Hybrid. Do they honestly think it belongs in the wood during archery season?"
Yes the full inclusion crowd sees this as just a variant of a crossbow, and should be allowed in any archery season. I see this as a preview of more technically advanced crossbows. A couple more years of R&D and this will be just the tip of the iceburg.
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I liked how he said you could put all your AR accessories on it..like your flashlight!!!
Sounds like a new poaching tool too. Put a night vision scope on it and your silent.
That thing is disgusting and when will it stop?
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ever since I heard/read that the NRA wanted to open the four 'bow only' counties in southern West Virginia to gun hunters I have no use for them. these counties have been closed to gun hunting since the 1960's and should remain as such.
these four counties make up the largest piece of 'archery only' property in North America.
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I did hear recently from a good friend that the NRA is contacting NRA members who live in the West Virginia Bow Zone. I am told the NRA is trying to open these 4 counties to gun hunting. If this is so - they have an enemy For Life - in me. I heard also the NRA fought to keep rifles allowed for use during spring gobbler season. In both these cases the NRA fought for what amounts to the destruction of game stocks - and in the case of spring gobbler continuing an element of danger. "bow-Only" deer hunting in the 4 southern counties has produced a healthy trophy class deer herd that is one of the best in the country and probably the best that is mostly open to public access and within reasonable drive for many who live in the east. Allowing gun hunting would destroy - in just a year - what we have been working at building for over a generation. I expect this from gun hunters though - this is just another example of how the big tent fails us. Pay attention! - if these situations are true I urge all NRA members to quit now. Then through wv state organizations try to prevent the gun hunters from stealing our resource. Poaching is already to high - a legal gun season will destroy the deer herd in these 4 counties - and non resident bowhunters and the money they spend will disappear quickly.
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I've been a NRA member for over 30 years. The above article is hard to read and continue the support that I have always given them. I'll have to think about this for a while.
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I am a proud life member of the NRA and will always be. I might not always agree with some of their stands but because I might not agree with them on something does not mean that they have not done a tremendous job in protecting our 2nd amendment rights. We need to look at the big picture and not focus on the small issues.
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It seems the NRA is taking some heat for their actions. While I don't think they are perfect, we do have to remember they are the National RIFLE Association. They promote gun ownership and things that positively affect gun ownership. I can see their point in supporting crossbows. This involves more people out in the woods hunting and hunting is a primary use for firearms. I can also see why they are trying to open more areas in West Virginia to gun hunting. Once again, I would think this is an effort to get more people engaged in gun related activities. I think that for the most part, they support a lot of things that benefit bowhunters but, we have to remember their primary mission is to protect the private ownership of guns.
On a side note, I don't see why we as bowhunters should be in opposition to people who use crossbows. I for one, don't use a crossbow but, I do know people who do. An older relative of mine recently went to a crossbow because he loves to deer hunt and wanted to expand the number of days he could hunt. He doesn't have the ability to draw a longbow or compound bow. I think we should be encouraging people to get out and hunt regardless of the method they use.
Rather than try to prevent someone from getting something extra (for example the right to use crossbows), I think we should embrace their efforts because it only strengthens us as a hunting community....just some thoughts.
J
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I've been an NRA member for 40 years. I don't agree with everything they do and this is one of those things. I will be contacting them to let them know my opinion about this subject and hopefully if enough bowhunters contact them they may re-visit their stance?
We have to let them know our stance on the subject and how strongly we feel about the crossbow in Archery Seasons.
TomD
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I've sent my concerns to NRA via the link on that page. I will wait for their reply as I notify our members of the threat to bowhunting so they too can contact them.
TomD
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John we are not against crossbows. we need to make that clear.
We are against crossbows in archery seasons or archery areas.
Also... I for one am not in favor of getting the whole world out there bow hunting, especially if you have to bastardize the entire premise of what hunting with a bow and arrow is in order to obtain those results. In many, maybe most areas we are too crowded as it is and there is already a high demand for coveted tags and entry rights.
Not everybody drives a red car, not everybody is a physician or a rocket scientist, or anything else for that matter.... why is there a need to make everybody a bow hunter.
ChuckC
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I wrote a reply as well. They really shouldn't have a dog in this hunt. It's a bowhunting issue that needs to be decided state by state as those hunters wish. It's hardly a second amendment issue.
The NRA has a position that basically says that they support 'opening up' seasons where biologically it can be done. In a sense, it's a backstab to bowhunting. Bow seasons have just the same right as any other season to exist if there is desire by license paying sportsmen to have them; biologically withstanding or not.
Hand held and hand drawn archery seasons offers 100% opportunity to EVERY sportsmen in each state for the mere cost of a hunting license. The fact that some decide not to participate is an issue of choice; yet that choice shouldn't in anyway lessen those who decide to participate in what many of us consider a quality format. The choice to participate and the choice to participate with your favorite weapon are totally seperate issues not related to each other.
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I'm with you sswv,however I'm a little torn,I've been a member for 20+ yrs in both the NRA & WVBA and I think the NRA is going to play a very important role in the next few years in DC,most of our elected officials now seem to be just a little left of Karl Marx,and I'm really worried about the future, not just guns but hunting in general.
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I wonder how much more eloquent our positions and beliefs would seem if we didn't position them as left or right of center? Would we be more prone to discuss matters civilly if emotion provoking members of history were not added to discussions? Thats the great thing about Tradgang. Only so much is allowed before we are told to go back to our corners and play nice. Those reminders have helped me be more responsible about stating my position.
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what group is about and for us as traditional bowhunters in a vocal and motivational way politically- as the NRA is for guns ( and crossbows)??
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North American Bowhunting Coalition has made a statement on Crossbows as well as Pope & Young.
Comptons and many State and National groups belong to this Coalition.
I have had a confirmation from NRA-ILA that they are supporting this due to increasing "hunter opportunities". We have had a few e-mails and I'm not finished sharing information with them yet. I feel they have been sold on some false information from thier replies.
I don't think most of the group on PowWow even looks at this forum or knows about this issue? Either that or they don't care?
TomD
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Here's the link re PA http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?id=4304
WV Tradbow -- The choice is between what NRA is attempting to do right in your backyard right now ... and speculation on what the Feds might, or might not, do. Most of the paranoia spread by NRA and USSA never comes to pass ... it's how they keep their membership base and bank account ... fear. I'll fight the enemy at hand every time before being turned back by a "maybe someday" threat.
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Dave, We have been fighting this crossbow issue in PA forever, holding them off year by year. Now steps in the NRA. Another threat along with the crossbow lobbyist. If this happens it will lead further to the decimation of our deer herd and bowhunting in PA as we know it. It is all ready happening in the eastern part of the state.
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It's already a done deal in PA. They are having their final vote on it next week in Harrisburg and when they prliminarily vote something in they 99.99% of the time never back it out. 2009 will allow crossbows in archery season, mark my words. They are raining the cost of hunting license each year for the next 3 and they know they need to give something each year in order to keep people coming back so this year will be crossbows and I predict next year will be in-lines in the traditional flintlock season.
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I'm a life member and there are many reasons to belong, and maybe more so with the current Democratic stranglehold on the Executive/Legislative branches. There's no telling where our 2nd Amendment/Hunting rights would be without them in our corner all these years.
However, I have real problems with the NRA taking a stand to add guns (or crossbows) to previously bow seasons, etc. This is something that I believe the NRA may take a second look at if they hear from enough of us bowhunters who also belong to the NRA. I sure plan to let them know my feelings.
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I'm a member also, but I often find myself asking the question "why?". This fear mongering goes on with the NRA often. They do it with roadless and wilderness issues, too. They hear from me on a regular basis. So far the ILA has never even acknowledged that I have written to them.
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I,m a NRA member and I don,t agree with some of the things they do, I do strongly feel without them we can kiss all hunting and rights to keep arms goodbye, We need them more now than ever, which also means they need to know how the people feel.
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For those of you who haven't seen it ... here is the future of "bowhunting"! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9FdWkBJ4sdU
Indeed, out here too. NRA teamed with the Blue Ribbon Coalition (national off-road motor coalition) to block wilderness designation to some essential wildlife habitat called Brown's Canyon, which hardly any ATV types ever use. Life members are dropping off in huge numbers. The group seems suicidal. Check the ads in their magazines for some clues as to their strange bedfellows. Nothing is what it appears to be any more, geeze. dave
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If you go back to the first or second post here, you can get to the NRA-ILA page and up at the top find a spot to contact them. I did, and this is what I'm sending them. My feeling is we should be urging all bowhunter/NRA types we know to do the same. My quick letter is as follows:
NRA--
Increasing hunter opportunities is one thing I would presume most of us could agree on, but fighting to do so by adding crossbows to archery-only seasons (or rifles to shotgun-only areas) is an action that will result in your losing support from many of us hunters.
I am a LIFE MEMBER of the NRA, as well as a teacher and part-time outdoor writer who has written over 300 weekly columns (and been published about 40 times in national magazines), often trashing opponents of the NRA and proudly advancing NRA's positions. However, this recent action where the NRA is trying to ram crossbows down the throat of PA bowhunters is ill-advised and wrong-headed.
The NRA needs to pick their battles with anti-2nd Amendment opponents, not begin squabbles with other hunters who are largely on your side (as I usually am). This type of strategy will divide NRA members, pit them against each other, and in the case of many, cause them to drop their NRA membership and denounce you.
I sincerely hope you will rethink this aggressive action trying to ram additional weapons into a special weapons season. You will not only lose me as a member if this continues, but I predict thousands of others will drop too, and I will also be forced to reveal and attack this action in my outdoor writing.
I have always stood steadfastly for the NRA, but I believe you are making a SERIOUS mistake or miscalculation in this case. The NRA is being trashed on at least one hunter website I frequent because of this and I'm hard-pressed to come up with reasons to disagree with them on this issue. Several have indicated they've contacted NRA-ILA but never been acknowledged; that is also a great way to doom future membership retention.
I am not anti-crossbow; I AM against crossbows in existing BOWhunting seasons. I am certainly not anti-gun either; I AM against adding guns to existing BOWhunting seasons.
Thanks for listening and I look forward to a response.
Sincerely,
Bryce Lambley
LIFE MEMBER
Fremont, NE
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Nice letter, Bryce. Mine was a little more blunt. I hope we hear from them.
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Here is the NRA's response to an email that I sent......
"Dear Mr.XXXXXXXXX,
Please understand that NRA-ILA has one guiding principle with regard to
positions on hunting-related proposals -- expansion of hunting opportunities
will be supported as long as there is no biological reason to oppose them. This
is especially true when there is overwhelming evidence showing that the proposed
expansions help to recruit and retain hunters.
Sincerely,
Krista Cupp
NRA-ILA Grassroots Division
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I dropped my membership to the NRA several years ago and will never renew it!! (nut)
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Your letter from Krista says the same as the reply I had. A standard form I guess? The next 3 replies were along the same lines and after I asked for someone higher up the food chains information, I have heard nothing.
I think I have some of that info somewhere? I have met some of those people at some campaign events, now to find it??
TomD
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BTW there is no crossgun made that will hold one hole groups at 100yds or even 50yds. (nut)
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I got the standard 'we are for creating more opportunity where biologically reponsible' reply. I suppose that means they will kiss bowhunting goodbye when the resource can stand a full gun season impact.
With heavy heart, I will suspend a 25 year relationship with the NRA. I don't like doing it as I've always supported them fully. I haven't hunted with a firearm in over 20 years...but I support them in their second amendment rights as I want to protect all forms of hunting for everyone to enjoy...just not bowhunters.
Yet the fact remains that I unselfishly supported their positions to protect firearms and they on the other hand took a position to back stab my favorite season and prefered weapon.
I just can't let it go. It's not fair. Bow seasons are entitled to exist if just for no other reason than people want them. Hunters are customers that buy a product as packaged by the state. Don't package it in away that they like, and they don't buy it.
Does that make sense?
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remember folks - this scam about "creating" hunting opportunity if biologically supportable is pure BS! The west virginia bow zone had no deer because gun hunters wiped them out - the ONLY way to give deer a chance was to creat a 4 county area that is bow only - been running around 30 years - locals have been raised on it and know what they have and value it - I have a 15 year investment in time and spirit. This area is about 90% open to ANYONE who is willing to work at it and hunt hard - With A Bow. It is thriving with big healthy deer - that (some) gun hunters would like to steal. The NRA is looking for easy battles to win to appear relavent. I am 100% opposed to any group that attacks bowhunting.
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You think these xbows are advanced now, you just wait!! Look at how the compound took off, the xbow will be worse and the tradition In bow hunting will slowly disappear as it's doing already. Shame on the NRA!! I can just about gaurantee It's all about money.
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So as I scanned the post here on the NRA pushing the legalization of xbows I asked myself why would they involve themselves in this? Makes no sense to me. I hate xbows unless for the use by people who are handicapped or because of age cannot use a bow anymore. All the rest should use a bow, heck if you cant take the little time to get good with a compound then stay out of the woods. If you want take shots at deer out past 40 yards then use them during gun hunting only. The whole idea of hunting with a bow is being good enough(or lucky)to get close to the animal your hunting. That's the whole experience of bowhunting, if you take that away it's not really fitting the definition. I feel the same way about the new muzzle loaders too. Give me a break,why don't they just call it a single shot weapon season for crying out loud. I wish I were King, I'd alow bowhunting and traditional muzzle loader to hunt year around and give the rest of the hunters a two week season-lol
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Cory may be on to something when he wonders if NRA's position here may be to chalk up an easy win. The last several years haven't gone so well with NRA-endorsed candidates not faring well in national elections. I don't think that's the NRA's fault, but it could make the NRA want to pad their record and seem more "relevant" as Cory stated.
In this day and age of deer populations skyrocketing, biology could tell us that guns of all types should be added to our current archery seasons. Under the NRA's blanket statement, that would mean the NRA would support such moves. It's a poorly-thought out position to begin with, and takes the NRA into new territory where it really doesn't belong (protect the 2nd Amendment, darn it!), and one taken in total disregard to how so many of us bowhunters (who are equally pro-2nd Amendment) feel.
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Bows are part of the Second Amendment so as we're clear. It is the right to bear arms(not firearms) and in the state of Illinois bows are considered a weapon as with some other states. While I do now agree with the NRAs position on crossbows or in altering existing archery seasons to allow firearm use during them by any means(I have voiced this opinion with them also as a member) don't totally alienate yourself from them as we will need them down the road I fear. A "League for the Protection of Bowhunting" would be a wonderful thing, with bows defined as Recurve, Longbow, Selfbow and Compound (we would need the numbers they bring). I have been considering starting such a group as for I see a serious need as our paths diverge further from DNR "wants and needs" as well as current political winds.
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The NRA has sent out a second bulletin urging all to contact the PA game comission and respectfully ask for inclusion of crossbows in general archery season. The game comission votes tomorrow.
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I support crossbow inclusin here in PA, not because i use one or want to but because I belive hunters should have the chocie to use them If they whish to. I whish everyone hunted with trad bows, but they dont. I feel that the compound has gotten so advanced today that it really doesent make any sence not to allow crossbows. I think the NRA is right on in this issue. Trad bow, compound, or crossbow the hunter should be allowed to use what he/she feels best for them. I understand the arguement against the crossbow and respect those views, I just dont share them. I know my view on this is unpopular among traditonal bowhunters, but this is the way I feel about it. so please dont beat me up to much about my position :archer:
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novahunterpa: it is not my intent to 'beat up' anyone. Your saying what you feel is right; is what this country is all about. It is not silence that helps us understand others points of view.
I understand the 'choice' concept; that if we all stand together; good things will happen to all of us. I think though: that is an illusion.
If we though allow people to use whatever they feel is best for them; you might achieve that goal- but is what is best for "them" : best for bowhunting ?
All it really would be though: is just one move in the game of chess we play- with oppositions to bowhunting.
Some things have consequences; and there are consequences of letting crossbows: into a 'bow only' season.
One consequence is that you open the door to ideas that if implemented: could destroy traditional bowhunting.
One issue that the NRA pushes with rifles; is accuracy at long ranges. The goal of a rifle hunter is accuracy at long ranges; and for a long while the NRA allowed its 'bowhunting representative' to advocate 70 yard shots at game. Why not- after all the marksman seeks to make- long- accurate shots.
While accuracy is important; for the traditional bowhunter - long range accuracy: is not.
You open the door to questioning our accuracy; and those that clamor for 'proficiency testing' will be heard. After all - the majority of people that would be in the bow seasons would be shooting either compounds or crossbows- easily capable: by the manufacturers own advertising.
With a swipe of a pen- traditional archery could be a thing of the past.
Another consequence is the increase in numbers of people in the bow season. You have to admit that if the door is opened to crossbows; that the number of people hunting in the bow seasons will go up. As that happens - restrictions are certain.
What we traditional bowhunters need to be what we are (more than anything else): is time afield.
We are the romantics of hunting. We are the ones that cherish being in the woods; being in the wild; and ~being part of it~.
Tradition. Doing something the way it was traditionally done in the past. It helps us understand our past; and better appreciate our experiences.
The tradition of rifle hunting probably has its roots in Davy Crocket and Daniel Boone. It became popular with "buffalo Bill" - when train loads of shooters would stop near or in herds of buffalo; and the shooting only stopped when all the buffalo were dead. Elk hunting in the west as late as the early 1950s was a way of getting meat; and when a herd was spotted.. then everyone opened fire and ran to tag the young cow elk over the old stinky bulls( this STILL happens NOW).
Shooting for 'sport' was born from these times.
But too was the realization that uncontrolled - rifle hunters could nearly eliminate a species.
It was a rifle hunter that started saving the buffalo - and started understanding the need for proper game management ( look up the history of the Kaibab deer ). WE owe a lot to those that rifle hunted; and did it for the experience of being in the woods; the camaraderie; the thrill of hunting; the adventure of it.
I believe in the second amendment;I think that it gives our armies strength to have people used to shooting weapons to make into soldiers. I think the discipline of shooting makes a kid with a shotgun or a .22 better prepared for fighting in wars. History has shown that this is true.
And too I want rifle hunters to have charge of game management - in that they are the ones best capable of keeping animal populations in safe numbers. Rifle hunters also put money into game management programs; and provide great times and meat on the table for many.
As I stated: rifle hunting is seated in this country: the freedom to walk the mountains; the land they own; the federally owned public lands- gun in hand; purpose in mind.
In fact the freedom we have in this country was won with guns.
Bowhunting too- has its roots in the United States. Before the civil war few people hunted with a bow. After the civil war - gun ownership by confederates was an issue; and from that sprouted the first 'famous bowhunters' : The Thompson brothers. They inspired others; and then lets not forget how the last "wild indian" called "Ishi" brought into bowhunting: the lessons of the first Americans.
The heritage of bowhunting in America certainly goes back further: than when white people ruled it.
The highest award in bowhunting is associated with Ishi.
Read about him; what kind of person he was; how he interacted with the earth; with the animals in it; and you will see the stories you read in this forum are so entwined: that is obvious.
So - where do crossbows fit into this?
Why should we allow them in bow season? What positive benefit does that have for bowhunting?
I say NONE. I say if you want to hunt with one- do it in the any weapon seasons; the rifle seasons- don't let them in the bow season.
I think of bow season as 'bow and arrow season'; and there are no arrows with the crossbow... they shoot bolts.
Crossbows should NOT be allowed in bow and arrow seasons!
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Brian - with all due respect, what you say about Ishi and crossbows could just as easily be said about the compound bow and what it has become.
Sending my renewal in today because it is due and see no reason not too.
Steve
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SteveB yes indeed: the compound bow - or cam bow- is not headed in the right direction either.
I think telling about our view on the issue: to the NRA is better- than not keeping membership in it.
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NovahunterPA,
Brian seems pretty passionate about his beliefs and I support what he says. There is no harm in disagreement unless we use it to belittle one another.
I think most inclusionist are pretty caring people. They want others to have the opportunity to enjoy the great outdoors. Yet, is the issue REALLY about inclusion or simply 'choice'. It's really not the same.
Bowhunting (without crossbows) are inclusionist seasons. They are open to all and 35 years ago states offered compound bow legalization as a way to get more inclusion. I think it worked very well...don't you?
Choice on the other hand is based on a belief that if you don't want to hunt as the state restrictions dictate...that you change the rules to your favor. That's pretty wicked because the core belief of the movement is a pretty sinister concept to the sport of bowhunting. There will always be more people who desire to hunt with something besides a bow....than those who do. It's really not about crossbows, but rather an ideology of change that not only can, but will go eventually far beyond just the crossbow efforts.
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Just an update, Crossbow passed in PA today with a 4-3 vote they added a sunset provision to 2012 wich means they have to vote again in 2012 allow crossbows after this date. This will give them time to gather data to see what if any impact crossbows have on the deer heard.
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The link discussing this was pulled from the *********** for some reason. I will say it again: the NRA has trouble distinguishing an assault rifle from a hunting rifle. Now they are having trouble telling the difference between the crossbow and real bows. They are a political lobbying group which works for manufacturing interests first and foremost, under the guise of "protecting our 2nd amendment rights". Hunters'interests are a distant concern. They court us for our money & support. I will never be a member of an organization this dishonest.
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Why wouldn't the NRA support crossbow use for everyone in archery seasons? Few archers want this. The non-bowhunting gun hunters would benefit the most from allowing crossbow use in archery only seasons. The NRA would shine like gold for getting this for their members. This is a greater threat to bowhunters than PETA is.
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This is a greater threat to bowhunters than PETA is.
A group whose agenda is to end ALL hunting - starting with and including bowhunting - is the lessor threat??????????????????
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I will keep my NRA Membership and if Vermonster starts up "League for the Protection of Bowhunting" :) I'll be one of the first to join. I will also tell any organization of which I am a member when I believe they stray from the path I signed up for. The NRA is absolutely necessary (in my mind) as a voice for all of us archers and gun owner alike.
The National Rifle Association does far and away more good for us than harm. They are without doubt one of the loudest voices in Washington and in the current climate absolutely necessary
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The National RIFLE Association, of which I have been a Life Member of for nearly 2 decades, should stay away from bowhunting issues, and leave it to the State organizations. Does Pope and Young or PBS get involved with firearms issues? State issues should be handled within the State. They shellshocked the PGC with their pro-crossbow rhetoric just 4 days before the vote. Now look at where PA is with the crossbow? When is anyone going to realize that it is all about the money, not the disabled, the youth, the female, the wounded Vet, or the elderly bowhunter. They want it in the archery season to get the firearms hunter, connect the dots!!!!
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You right on the mark about that AL,the NRA cost themselves a member speaking for myself.
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Money money money. I was a member of NRA for years, but the last time I signed up they spent all the money I sent them, sending me more letters trying to get me to send them more money. Nevermore. This is the final straw for me.
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we must remember as stated in earlier posts....as BOW HUNTERS we are not against crossbows but we ARE against them in archery season......they should be called crossguns as they shoot a bolt, not an arrow.......not many DNR's seem to care though, and at least here in NC no matter how hard we fight to keep archery seasons only for hand held, hand drawn bows, the bottom line is.... who has the most money to influence legislators seems to be who is winning the fight..... :confused:
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If it weren't for the NRA we could be talking about hunting in past tense, although every hunting organization has things about it we might disagree with, they do waaaay more good for us than bad. Not supporting groups like the NRA is foolish if you are a hunter. :knothead:
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I rarely post, but feel the need to weigh in. The NRA, warts and all, is the top voice of American Gunners and Hunters. As for Crossbows in Archery season, I can't see what difference it makes one way or another. This precious connection that some place on their weapon choice is insular and irrelevant thinking. The hunting collective has always been its own worst enemy. Division amongst the ranks regarding methods (baiting, dogs, etc.), choice of weapon, and refusal to stand as in an absolutist fashion has been hunting's Achilles' heel. That some gun-owners actually support the "assault weapons" ban is appalling. To know that hunters have actually supported baiting bans is disgusting. To buy in to any gun control advocacy rhetoric or animal-rights agenda is to advance their incremental ploy to ULTIMATELY end ALL gun ownership and animal use.
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Originally posted by Mike Tomano:
I rarely post, but feel the need to weigh in. The NRA, warts and all, is the top voice of American Gunners and Hunters. As for Crossbows in Archery season, I can't see what difference it makes one way or another. This precious connection that some place on their weapon choice is insular and irrelevant thinking. The hunting collective has always been its own worst enemy. Division amongst the ranks regarding methods (baiting, dogs, etc.), choice of weapon, and refusal to stand as in an absolutist fashion has been hunting's Achilles' heel. That some gun-owners actually support the "assault weapons" ban is appalling. To know that hunters have actually supported baiting bans is disgusting. To buy in to any gun control advocacy rhetoric or animal-rights agenda is to advance their incremental ploy to ULTIMATELY end ALL gun ownership and animal use.
Well said brother, as hunters we need to look at the big picture
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So with that mentality in mind, here's a scenario that occurs across the country. Decide for yourself what to call this person. Sitting in full camo, in a box blind, overlooking a bait pile, in a 40 acre enclosure, bottle fed, hand raised deer, "guides" knowing where they are every second of the day. This is a hunter I guess. According to what you stated, we cannot be divided amongst ourselves by thinking differently. So this person is a hunter, not an opportunistic wannabe.
Maybe the NRA should contact the State organizations before pressing their will upon the masses. Like I stated in an earlier post, I have been a Life Member of the NRA for 2 decades, and I think they should stick the RIFLE part of their moniker, and the archery seasons to those who know more than they think they do!
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Extreme opinions on either side of this issue will always exist and rarely are those minds changed and that's OK. For me personally I believe archery must be maintained in the bow season and I also believe that the closer I can behave as a natural human predator the higher quality hunt I will achieve and somewhere in this equation the hunter must have constraints to achieve balance.
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Originally posted by Al Dente:
This is a hunter I guess.
Yes he is a hunter, & that's all he is, anyone with deep enough pockets can be a hunter, what he isn't is a woodsman.
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I've taken some bad flack over at arrowslinger.com because of my stance on the matter, as I make no bones about my feelings on it. I will not join, or even watch any hunting shows that involve its use.
Here is my answer on the matter.
(http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t33/JB59901/ItsNotABow.gif)
http://www.probowsociety.org/xbow.html