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Main Boards => Hunting Legislation & Policies => Topic started by: Zradix on March 25, 2010, 01:03:00 PM
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Just wondering how many of you take a firearm while bow hunting for protection. It's not legal in Michigan while bowhunting.
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Guess then I'd need one while surfing and swimming in the ocean too............and jogging in the hills around home in California. Maybe just carry all the time?
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I do! It's good to have a "plan B" in this part of the world.
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Believe it or not....it prob IS legal in all states, but has never been pushed.
KY just went thru this and it was found Uncontatutional for the state wildlife agency to dictate that a person could not carry a legal firearm (concealed w/ permit) during the archery season, turkey seasons, etc. A gentleman showed up at a KDFWR Commission meeting saying he was representing the NRA and pushed the Constitutionality of a few KDFWR Regulations that said it was illegal to carry. Our Legislators ruled on this during this last session and while surfing the KDFWR site a few days ago noticed new wording.
* Hunters with a valid concealed carry deadly weapon permit under KRS 237.110 may carry a weapon consistent with that law.
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Legal in Washington with a carry permit. Yes, I always carry in the woods. A lot more for human predators and signalling if in trouble than for bears or cougars.
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Not legal here and I really have no reason to carry one anyway.No dangerous animals in NC.
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If you dont miss you dont need one.And if there are other things you would need that for change your hunting grounds.In jersey if you get caught with a sidearm during any season you will be prosecuted,They love the money from that fine.
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They found up in Alaska its more effective to carry pepper spary and a lot of outfitters require their guides to do just that instead of sidearms. They still have the long guns w/them.
As a deterrent, ie something that will stop animals up thru the big bears a pistol is not very effective, if thats what you need one for.
Joshua
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In Michigan it IS legal with a concealed permit.
Any other time you can wear "open" in michigan, just not while bowhunting.
The laws aren't really the question though.
I'm wondering how many people do carry.
Thank you!!
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It's not the animals I fear, James.
Let's just put it this way....
I'd rather be judged by 12...than carried by 6. I won't let a few lines on a sheet of paper dictate whether or not I come home or not.
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Besides my lifetime of hunting and other types of guiding, I guided bear hunters for over 20 years, tracked and recovered most of the bears in the dark, never ever was I armed. Have some good stories to tell.
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I carry all the time.
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In Canada (to my knowledge) no one is allowed to carry a concealed firearm at any time. We can own handguns but you need a lot of permits and it can only be shot at a firing range.
I guess the firearm backup question depends on what species you are hunting or may encounter on a hunt. Some will take a shotgun or rifle when bear hunting for a backup but many just use pepper spray as a bear deterent.
I just watched Fred Eicler's brown bear hunt in Alaska on Youtube. I have a feeling he was glad that his guide had a sidearm with him. Check it out if you have never seen it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMbnmLLnsfw
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as GMMAT said it's not the animals I'm concerned about. I carry 24/7 and have since I turned 21.
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I always do here when in the mountains,year round, but don't when hunting antelope.
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Always while hunting, I also have a permit!
ElkNut1
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Can't do it in New York while bowhunting.....I have packed a handgun when on a bow/bakpacking trip of more than 2 days. Just felt more comfortable at night when 4 or 5 miles from the nearest anything in the Adirondacks.
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we cant carry at all in Maryland, We do have a permit, but listen to this, in MD self defense is none existant- keep that in mind! So the only way to get a concealed weapons permit is if your life has been threatened, and you are in danger. The threat must be reported to the police, and you need a witness.
If your life is in danger, and you are carrying a deadly weapon, and that threat becomes a active threat, what are you going to do? Hmm sounds like you are probably going to defend yourself? And then you will probably get charged with murder, or something like that. I hate my state!
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I always carry a concealed handgun. Dangerous two-legged animals are every where. You never know what nefarious activites your going to happen upon even in extremely remote areas.
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I carry all the time. I've had a few instances where I'm really glad I did. A couple involved some feral dogs and another involved a couple of trespassing ne'er-do-wells. If I hadn't been armed, well, let's just say things wouldn't have turned out as rosy.
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I carry most of the time(have permit) that I am bow hunting. There's one in my truck nearly 100% of the time.I carry one not so much for backup on 4 legged but for 2 legged dangers.
BOB
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I carry 24-7. In Texas you can carry concealed during bow hunting season as long as you have a CHL. And I believe in gun season you can carry open on the hunting premises.
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Folks, this is the problem:
Most believe the Second Amendment gives us the right to bear arms. THIS IS NOT THE CASE AT ALL!!
The Second Amendment guarantees a right we naturally have. The right to defend ourselves and our loved ones from all threats! How the British, Australians and Canadians allowed their governments to deny them this God-given right is something I just don't understand. Statistically they gained no security and lost substantial freedom. Now the criminals and tyrants are the ones who are safe.
I for one will take my chances with 12 jurors than be carried by 6 pallbearers. And to the UN, George Soros and the rest of the Saul Alinsky adherents, I say "Molon Labe!"
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I don't like loud noises so I dread having to shoot a gun without ear protection. I have more faith in counter assault for bears than my ability to quick draw a handgun and I am more accurate with my bow. Do I have guns, you bet I do, and I am a good shot. Would I defend myself, my property, or anyone else that needed my help absolutely. I do not claim to be a bigger man just because of a gun, but be warned, we are losing are liberties incrementally and we need to wakeup to the threat that nothing that is coming out lately that is helping the common man, like the new insurance bill. It disturbs me to see belligerent behavior from some, but it is evidence of a deteriorating society that feels oppression.
BACK TO THE THREAD I believe Counter Assault would be a better defense against a bear attack.
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Northern cali hunter, I just emailed the NRA, you guys are in a similar boat like MD. Our big problem is that there is no "right to bear arms" in our state consitution. Mabye the lawmakers just dont get it? Baltimore has the highest crime rate in America! The only thing that has lowered the crime rate was the 4 feet of snow we had this winter. We broke a record, one whole week without a murder! Look at other states that can carry, there crime rates are low. But maryland representatives are to stupid to do something about it.
one of these days I am going to draw a bear permit. I will be hunting with my bow, on the ground, spot and stalk, and I dont care how good of a shot you are. But even if you make a good shot, that bear is not going to die instantly. When you are within 20 yards, it would be nice to have something extra in your belt? That is my main concern. But I guess if I cant carry a sidearm, I will carry my 70# mamoth and do a tim wells(head shot) :biglaugh: -just kidding, he is a mad man!
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virginia says if you have a concealed carry permit you can carry a handgun in archery and muzzleloader season. in this day and time with all the crime and loonys running around....yes i carry a sidearm while hunting and its not for hunting...its for my peice of mind and personal safety.
Here in V.a. last year a month or so before bow season two virginia tech students were found dead on national forest and the killer hasnt been caught yet...not saying a gun woulda saved them but it may have made a difference. oh yeah,my wife hunts and she also has a carry permit and a .380! :thumbsup:
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Originally posted by lpcjon2:
If you dont miss you dont need one.And if there are other things you would need that for change your hunting grounds.In jersey if you get caught with a sidearm during any season you will be prosecuted,They love the money from that fine.
So you can't even hunt with a sidearm? :(
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You can carry while bowhunting in PA with a concealed permit. I've never felt it necessary to have a gun with me for any reason but I carry all the time because I can. I would just hate to be that family in a resturant somewhere that was wiped out because nobody had a way to protect themselves from the nut case who decided to kill everybody!
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Ohio State Patrol came out and said point blank that ccw has helped with crime in Ohio. Many of my friends are police officers and they all say its good for the people to carry,and I my friends don't leave the house without my FN40,wether to hunt,fish, or swim.
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Not legal in Missouri during archery season.
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String Bean, nope not in Jersey.But you can carry and posses a firearm in and on your property in defense of your home.So you could walk around your yard with a loaded gun(as long as it's registered)and have no problems.
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I'm armed in church! Unfortunately I know what goes on in our neighborhoods and ain't none of it pretty. Public land and National forests are havens for the worst offenders. I don't carry for critters, I carry for creepers... And you should too!
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Originally posted by Chris Shelton:
we cant carry at all in Maryland, We do have a permit, but listen to this, in MD self defense is none existant- keep that in mind! So the only way to get a concealed weapons permit is if your life has been threatened, and you are in danger. The threat must be reported to the police, and you need a witness.
If your life is in danger, and you are carrying a deadly weapon, and that threat becomes a active threat, what are you going to do? Hmm sounds like you are probably going to defend yourself? And then you will probably get charged with murder, or something like that. I hate my state!
I so tired of that kind of BS!!!
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You guys that carry because you are worried about people must hunt in some bad places. ;)
I am not too worried about anything if I got a bow and a quiver of broadhead tipped arrows with me.Always going to have a knife or two as well.I guess I could see some concern if hunting on a bordor state but around here the bad elements are in town not in the woods. :D
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Lets keep it on track... Should've made this a poll I guess.
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Here in the People's Republic of Illinois we are not allowed to have a handgun on our person or in our vehicle unless it is in a locked case. I feel no need to have one bowhunting here but coming into my driveway or leaving my office late at night is a different matter...I can't say I follow that law ALL the time ;)
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;) I have had issues with these "trouble youth" groups out back country. Pretty ugle to watch someone beat down for a candy bar.Cougar and bear don't bug me it the crazy's.
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Usually we do if we are hunting buffalo.
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Sidearms not legal in Norway at all, but then neither is bowhunting anything but pike ^^
Then again, we don't need sidearms.. only 30-50 murders per year, so we're pretty safe I guess..
75 % of those murders are domestic violence type stuff which wouldn't be stopped by a gun anyway.
I watched that Fred Eichler vid, and I'm guessing he's glad he had a pistol that day! I'd be soiled after something like that..
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I carry all the time regardless of what I am doing.
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The back-country of California is crawling with Mexico's drug cartels. Perhaps if pot is legalized in our state come November the customer base will disappear. I dunno, sad really. I have encountered illicit gardens on several occasions and have been fortunate enough to slip out before anyone saw me. The growers are well armed and don't give a hoot about laws or restrictions.
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Yep, more concerned about what might be waiting at the truck,etc. than critters in the woods, with the exception of packed up dogs.
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I believe the only time you can carry a sidearm while bowhunting in Michigan is when you are Bear hunting and you must have hunter orange on. You can have your bow and gun at the same time.
I don't while bear hunting to answer your question but I do carry while roaming the woods.
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I don't always carry a sidearm but do on occasion. I've been in some hairy situations when crossing paths with the wrong human element in the woods. There are a variety of reasons which include: dope heads, trespassers, poachers and squatters (folks living in tents .. that are usually dope heads).
Never felt the need to have a back-up for hunting puposes but there is very little critter danger here in Mississippi. Unfortunately the lower elements of our society do frequent the woods.
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Juan's right my ranch in Lake County (northern cal) is a pot grower paradise, lot's of BLM and National Forest.
Anyway my Glock20 10mm lives with me.....I have never had to use it to defend myself from a four legged animal.....
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Depends on where I'm at, what I'm after, and what else is in the area I'm hunting. I've never had to use it, but have drawn it a time or two...
I've also got a 6" knife I put on the side of my calf when spot and stalking hogs...
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Yep, we have Skunk Apes, swamp monsters, and saber toothed woodpeckers..can't be too careful!
Seriously though,I usually only carry when I am hog hunting and really want pork..if a hog is out of range of my bow, I will shoot one with the pistol. Never needed one for protection against a Florida pig. It is legal to carry during the archery season, but I don't carry a handgun with me, it is on my ATV or in my truck though.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm28/sendero25/100_1339-1.jpg)
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I usually find it to be a pain in the neck to carry a handgun while bowhunting, but have done so on occassion when I felt the need. We had a pack of aggressive feral dogs on one property that I hunted. After getting growled at in the dark on the way to my stand I started carrying a pistol until the problem was sorted out.
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I carry most of the time when hunting and all of the time when in the city.
John
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I am with Cosater500, Glock 20. The farther south in Texas I go, the better it feels. Where I used to hunt pigs down I35, 30 minutes from the border, I would not even over night camp there now, armed or not. Even 10 yrs ago there were a lot of voices in the night.
10 yrs ago myself, Dean Torges and Lou were hunting the area. We were spot and stalking not 200 yds from the truck. when we got back the truck had been broken into and expensive gear taken. there was evidence of over night camps ever 200 yds are so. after I got home that was the time I got my chl.
rusty
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I slept with a 12 gauge on my moose hunt here in Wyoming. I was in grizz infested country. I had one huffin' outside my tent one night, but never had to use the gun. I never packed the shotgun while hunting, it wouldn't feel right to me. I did have pepper spray though.
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I sometimes carry, but not usually when hunting on my own property. Usually when I do carry its a short barreled .38 loaded with snake shot. Put me on some of the public land,though, and it's the .45 auto on the hip. I have been challenged in the woods by both intruding hunters and wild dogs.
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Occasionally.
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It's a pain in the neck, but to a woman alone in the woods (I started hunting when I was still young and fetching) it is a comfort. I got my CCW permit as soon as I could. I am not so young now, and far less fetching, but my store of plunder might be temptation enough for unsavory types, and lead to unhappy consequences.
Bow and knife are fine for big strong men, but a .45 puts us all on the same level.
Killdeer :thumbsup:
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God bless you Killdeer!!!
Everyone who carries a firearm at any time for personal defense, is actually protecting the public in general. Who is...who aint.
For those on the red road, it is of no matter. For the others, they must wonder.
Instinctive shooting is good for weapons other than a stickbow!!! :D :D :D
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I carry a 44Mag. Just like the head stone in "Tomestone" Here lays Les Moore, 4 shots from a 44, no Les, no Moore...... I live in the desert and see alot of knuckleheads around.
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I don't know about Virginia, but its illegal during archery-only season in Idaho.
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I asked our local DOW officer if I could carry a gun while bow hunting. She said "yes this America and that is protected by the Constitution" I was particularlly interested as I had a bear license and wanted to carry a fire arm on the tracking job IF I shot a bear. She said-- "but if you shoot that bear in self- defence you better be bleeding"
That being said NO I DON'T CARRY GUNS.
Joe
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I don't like to but sometimes I do in our area if I'm hunting moose (calling sometimes attracts brown bears) or if I'm where I feel I'm more likely to bump a brownie. Pretty common that when I'm up on a mt chasing blackies when it gets towards dark I see a brownie down low heading to the river for a salmon dinner, often right in my path down, not a good feeling. They are more aggressive than typical locally. Last fall, I was taking pics of a blackie I just got with my bow, looked down the mt and I thought "Hey thats no beaver crossing the lake". Looked with my binos and it was a toad of a brownie out in the lake directly below me. Just had my widow and a pig sticker on me.
Heres the pic, pretty grainy. And it gets better... (http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh271/chinook907/rszdbrnlake.jpg)
Next day I came back to pack the hide & meat out, had a handgun in my pack (duh), was in some stunted trees and heard some branches breaking and I was appparently so close to likely the same brownie THAT I COULD HEAR HIM SNIFFING THE AIR TRYING TO GET MY SCENT. Thankfully he moved off and never saw him, I got the handgun out but of course it easily might not have been quick enough. I will be going after them likely this fall (brownies) but in an area that is not a drawing permit (our's is) and with said handgun on my hip.
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Carry at all times,and not for the critters. I think we are now # 3 for pot production,have found several patches,so far no trouble but you never know.
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Originally posted by limbolt:
Carry at all times,and not for the critters. I think we are now # 3 for pot production,have found several patches,so far no trouble but you never know.
So thats what they mean when they say "Kentucky Blue grass". Ya learn something new each day!
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No. Not me.
That would be completely defeating the purpose.
Knife at side, bow in hand, both razor sharp.
Lifelong NRA Member.
I always leave my sidearms at home.
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I thought "bow hunting" was for the challenge and "sport" of hunting the hard way.
While I fully support the RIGHT of persons to keep and bear arms, if you are so insecure of your hunting prowess, that you MUST carry a firearm, I do not see why you just don't utilize firearms seasons.
Here in Canada, I do NOT have a RIGHT to "bear arms" and while bow hunting, carrying a firearm is ILLEGAL.
I have never had a problem, nor do I worry about a "face off" with a major predator.
I bow hunt for the challenge, if I couldn't "stand the pressure" of the chance meeting with a grizzly/black bear, or cougar, I would go back to hunting with a rifle.
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Yep but not as a backup.
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I will not be carrying a knife to a gun fight! The president of my bow club got mugged at his truck season before last as he dragged his deer out of the woods (saw the guys standing nearby) and they beat the living snot out of him, threw him in the ditch and took his deer. I have also had a couple of very unnerving encounters while on a remote piece of lake fishing and once while camping when I would have given all my camping gear for my .357. Not any more--when momma and I are hiking the state forest or in other remote spots I will be packing--just recently got my concealed carry permit. WV allows permit holders to carry while hunting for self defense purposes only.
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In New York we have 2 different zones with two separate seasons. In the Northern zone if you have a pistol permit you can legally carry your pistol because during deer archery season bear is open with a gun so legally you can carry it. That is straight from the ECO who patrols my area and from the Ranger for my zone there. They said the only week I can't carry is Muzzleloader because the regs state muzzleloader only. In the southern zone it is archery only so no pistols.
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I'm not worried as long as I have my bow. Illegal in MS anyhow. If I hunted dangerous bear country, I'd rather have a shotgun with buckshot for backup. A double gun can easily be broken down to fit in a pack. Same for home defense, although I do keep a loaded .38 in the bedside table. Wouldn't do that if there were kids in the house.
The only thing I've encountered in the woods that really scared me was feral dogs. In my neck of the woods, it's assumed that anyone in the field is armed and ready to defend himself, and I've never heard of hunters having problems with the "crazies".
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Don, how much good would a broken down shot gun in your pack do you if you stumbled up on a bear by surprise? Bet he would have you down before you got the gun out and assembled! I prefer bear repellent spray for that purpose--but my concern has never been with animals--only predatory people who have less and less respect for others. It only takes once.
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I usually hunt with someone slower than myself, so all I have to do is outrun them. If not an arrow in the foot keeps them planted, while I get away. :biglaugh: :biglaugh:
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Not much, David. I was thinking more along the lines of packing it to the hunting area. Obviously a handgun in a holster is more convenient, but how many of us could really shoot a handgun well enough to keep a determined bear from taking us out? Not me, anyhow. I would be just about as likely to get an arrow in his brain.
I'm sure glad I don't live in a place that makes either dangerous bears or crazies a fact of life! For me it's just an exercise in "what if".
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Way back when I was in school (a looong time ago) a biologist acquaintance likely saved his own life by carrying. After doing fieldwork out in the boonies he returned to the cabin to find two gents eyeing the gear in his truck. They wanted it. He wasn't a big guy, they both were, and while one made threatening conversation the other fetched a log from the cabin woodpile and was slowly working around to his backside. Uh-oh. But you know, it's amazing how one's powers of persuasion dramatically improve when a .357 Mag suddenly appears in your hand. He made it out of there and later the local warden said the gents may have been two ex-cons thought to have passed through the area. The warden also said it was a smart move to have carried that weapon. The fellow agreed, lol.
Even out in the boonies where you think you're the only one for miles around, there can be bad people and bad things waiting to happen. And in such cases the only person you have to depend on is you. Under those circumstances bows are nice...but guns are MUCH nicer.
Yup, I carry. In town, and in the woods (CCP).
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This thread has been a real eye opener for this Canuck. I had hoped to do several hunts in the States but now I'm not so sure it is safe. And I don't mean the wildlife. How many of you guys shoot yourselves while carrying pistols? I would think it is a pain in the you-know-what to be lugging around extra hardware while bowhunting!!! :confused:
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Wiley, I think the "danger" as evidenced by this thread is overblown. I've hunted in lots of states, and I've never felt threatened or encountered any situation that made me want to carry a firearm. The only time I get nervous is if I accidentally find myself in the wrong part of town in some unfamiliar city. I keep firearms handy at home because of the possibility of robbery, but in the woods I don't worry about it. There may be a few areas like near the Mexican border or in known dope-growing areas where you need to be careful, but those are the exception rather than the rule. Don't worry about it, and come on down!
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I have no problem carrying a sidearm while bowhunting.If anything, for the peace of mind.A friend of mine had a sow bear send him back up into his tree stand one evening. He was there for several hours until help arrived. I would only shoot if I had to, but the report of the gun may be enough to scare off the aggressor.
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I had a 500lb black bear charge me after dark here in NY. I was waiting for my brother just standing on the logging road. Didn't have a flashlight or anything and was dark enough that I put my arrow in the quiver. A couple minutes later I thought to myself I should have my pistol where I can get it if needed so I put it in my vest pocket. Not 30 seconds later I heard a twig snap and turned around to see what looked like a car step out onto the logging road 20 yards away. Now I carry a 44Special snubnose and beyond 5 yards forget it. So I pulled it out and brased for impact. The bear grunted at me and started running. Literally about 2 seconds later he was 2 feet from me standing there for just a moment then turned and ran off. I was stunned. I had trailcam pics of him but he was bigger in person. Never will forget that night. The bear was shot with a rifle during gun season and field dressed over 450. My brother knows if he hears the pistol that something is chewin on me!!
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Wiley.
You have got to be kidding me right? How many of us shoot ourselves? I don't know of anyone who has, and have not heard of anyone who has shot themselves with a pistol while hunting. You own screwdrivers, ever stick your self in the heart with one? I happen to know that the canadian population is less than 1/10th of the US population. By that simple fact we have approximately 10X as many criminals and they roam the woods at times.
I carry for the criminal predators and while I respect each persons right to choose to carry or not. I gotta say if you need it and don't have it when the time comes, the bad guy is not going to be sympathetic to your plight. He is just going to optimize it to his advantage.
God created man, Samuel Colt made them equal. Peace of mind is knowing that familiar weight on your hip is there. Saying you won't carry a defensive gun for safety because of it's weight is like saying you won't carry water in hot weather because of it's weight. Or claiming that since the weather is warm you don't want to carry a pack with survival gear in the wilderness. It's all fun and games until you need it. Then the game becomes life and death.
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When I am using my pack animals; or riding mule or horse; I keep my pistol on me. I might need it for dispatching an animal.
I know you flatlanders can look for the closest house lights to find your way to safety; or listen for trucks on the highway.
But get way back in; on a moonlit night; and a pistol can and has saved lives - as a communication tool.
I got separated on a trip out in the wilderness from my son; and even with flashlights we could not find each other without shooting and walking towards each other.
Then too; when your all alone- having a gun could signal another hunter in an emergency.
I signed nothing that says I have to give up my right to keep and bear arms - when I bought my licenses and tags. I am a bowhunter- and having a gun on my hip changes nothing about that.
Guns don't break game laws; people do.
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In Oklahoma you must have a Concealed Carry Permit to have a sidearm on your person while hunting during bow season. I have one, so I do. It is not a legal means to take game with during archery season so bowhunting is still bowhunting. I carry a titanium .357 so weight is not a problem. It weighs less than a quart of water.
I suppose not so much as back-up on game. If I ever drew a bear or mtn. lion permit I would.
I have hunted in several other states (bow hunted) that allowed sidearm carry during archery season or that had concealed carry reciprocity and did there as well. Have never needed it, hope I never do. Emergency/survival gear is for just that, a situation that you don't expect that could threaten your life.
As far as being effective with it if I had to use it? Had to pass the shooting test when I applied for the permit, practice at least once a week. Yes, if the threat is close enough to actually be considered a threat, I will be effective. Why carry it otherwise? I don't use cheap ammunition either (for practice, yes). I load with ammunition designed and proven for using in a defense situation.
I don't always carry when I am on my hunting lease. It's not so big that a cell phone isn't a better tool. I sure did when we were trying to get rid of the feral hogs on the property though! Around camp it is accessable and everyone in camp knows where it is and that it is loaded. I know where theirs is and know that they are also loaded in a clean and well working fashion.
It is a tool like anything else, used for good or bad by those that pick them up.
OkKeith
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Here's the thing-hope for the best, prepare for the worst. How many guys have been lost in the woods for long periods (survival type) of time? Yet we preach to take survival gear, right? I have yet to be accosted in the woods, but that certainly doesn't mean it couldn't happen. No problems with those who don't choose to carry, but I do and will continue to do so. Think about it-if there is a nefarious type out during hunting season, they're VERY likely to be out there with a weapon of some sort...I'm going to do my best to have odds in my favor.
SPECTRE: "I don't know about Virginia, but its illegal during archery-only season in Idaho."
I double checked with Idaho F&G and confirmed it is legal. As the employee told me, "you have the right to bear arms", regardless of if being archery season or not-just FYI if you get back this way and wanna carry.
Safe hunting to all
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I am all for the right to carry a pistol if you want. I have owned a number of them myself, but to think I would ever need to defend myself with one is a bit of stretch for me. I took on a highway patrolman friend once that had just passed his shooting tests. At twenty yards, 6 shots in thirty seconds. I beat him every time with a Jerry Hill Bamboo Special. I am not an expert with a pistol and apparently neither was my friend, but how good does one need to be to really know that it is a reliable backup or survival(food wise) tool versus just a noise maker. In the July 4 blowdown storm at the boundary waters I was on the Canadian side. After the storm we heard someone fire three consecutive shots a number of times. The gun was not legal there, but we thought the worst and went to their aid. I have no idea why they were in such a panic because all of their equipment was there and no one was was hit by any falling trees. Two days later they were cleaning fish near their camp and they were taking turns holding the gun pointing into the woods, just in case a bear came out to attack them while they were cleaning fish. I believe that some have a false sense of security in their pistols, keeping a clear head about things is important when packing one.
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Lawrence,
I agree with you. A cool head, a plan and some prior training/experience are the BEST tools for dealing with an emergency in the backwoods. It's helpful even in a stressful situation while hunting/fishing/camping and many people have none of it.
The original post was about a back-up situation relating to game that might injure a hunter after being shot with an arrow. It evolved into a discussion of dealing with defense situations of all types while hunting.
I think it is important to remember that archery equipment is lethal due mainly to blood loss. Discounting a lucky spine hit, even several arrows on target might not stop (as in, in their tracks, no more forward progress) an animal or an assailant. That's why your State Trooper friend carries a firearm and not a bow or crossbow.
I take my firearm use just as seriously as my archery hunting. I practice with my archery tackle in a way that prepares me for hunting situations, shooting at various distances, at other than straight-on angles. I practice with my sidearm in similar instances. Responsible firearm ownership is the OWNERS responsibility, no one else’s. Just like it is a bowhunter’s responsibility to be effective with their equipment in hunting situations and know their limits.
Again, I agree with you that a clear head is the most valuable tool anyone can have for all situations. Sometimes just a clear head will not get you out of what you have gotten yourself into.
OkKeith
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If I was in grizzly country I think I would need to figure out how to carry a ten gauge shotgun or put more faith in my ability to quick draw my counter assault. Went out and tried a few shots with my 22 mag, I will not be trusting my abilities with a pistol anytime soon, if ever.
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Lawrence,
You have really hit upon the key to this discussion, whether it is for defensive carry or back-up on game, confidence.
I think practice; with archery tackle, with firearms or with tiddley-winks, gives us not only better skill but a confidence in our equipment and our ability to use it.
I might even argue that the confidence must come first or the skill will not follow.
This has been a good thread.
OkKeith
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I was lucky enough to grow up in a family where guns were allowed, encouraged and respected. I never had some one who had been brainwashed by the mainstream liberal media telling me to fear firearms because they cause crime and kill people. What utter B.S.
A gun is a tool just like your pocket knife, flashlight etc..
The right tool for the right job. Unfortunately there are people in this world that by their actions require us to have the ability to use deadly force. A gun is the right tool for that job, nothing more.
Thank God that I'm still able to bare arms and defend my family and myself.
It's like a seat belt, you won't have time to put on when it is the only thing that will save your life.
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Funny sidetrack. I discovered people get more freaked out encountering a person in the woods carrying a spear than a person carrying a holstered pistol. Figure that one out.
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Kevan,
Sounds like there may be a good story behind that statement.
OkKeith
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Originally posted by pavan:
At twenty yards, 6 shots in thirty seconds. I beat him every time with a Jerry Hill Bamboo Special. I am not an expert with a pistol and apparently neither was my friend, but how good does one need to be to really know that it is a reliable backup or survival(food wise) tool versus just a noise maker.
Defensively speaking, move up to 5 yards or less and repeat the exercise. That is a more realistic scenario for an interpersonal confrontation.
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Originally posted by pavan:
At twenty yards, 6 shots in thirty seconds. I beat him every time with a Jerry Hill Bamboo Special. I am not an expert with a pistol and apparently neither was my friend, but how good does one need to be to really know that it is a reliable backup or survival(food wise) tool versus just a noise maker.
Your buddy shoots that badly? That man needs to spend more time behind the trigger. I will happily shoot against any trad archer in the world with my handgun from zero on out to 100 yards and will beat them for time and accuracy every time. I take my weapons training seriously. I am still breathing because of my hard trained skills.
You cannot compare an incompetent pistolero who clearly does not practice his weapons skills very much against an archer who shoots a lot. Harvesting animals at 100 yards with a pistol is not a hard task for a trained shooter. Try that with a longbow.
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I agree, I have a problem with the sound, I flinch. My wife can out shoot me with a pistol easily. However, with a longbow I can keep things pretty tight with an arrow about every four seconds. In most places in the midwest I do not believe that I would really need one for immediate protection, the rest of the world may have more violent types. I am a bowhunter, I only hunt with longbows. I have more of a fear of running into reckless gun use than anyone that has illegal intentions. I have seen way more people handling pistols dangerously that obviously did not possess them for the right reasons, but never out in the woods. To defend my buddy he would have been able to hit a human target, I beat him when the points were tallied. I am concerned that our 2nds amendment rights are in jeopardy, it is not skilled users that are causing the most of the bad media hype. It's the punk that thinks he is somehow tougher because he has a pistol. To need to use force to defend yourself against that type of person is a bad deal all the way around. I am glad that they don't frequent our woods. It must not be much fun to fear such an occurrence when out hunting to a point that a sidearms may be needed. I thought the original post was more concerned with bears or mountain lions.
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Lawrence,
You are right, the original post had to do with follow up shots on game animals who might eat you if didn't kill them right off.
As far as that goes, I only carried my pistol when either on my lease, or on my buddie's place in south Texas. In both cases we were on a "Hog Eradication Mission". I love to hunt hogs, love to eat hogs, more power to the folks that have hogs. Dang things tear up more deer habitat than they are worth around here, in my opinion.
Some folks use guns, some folks don't; no big deal to me. For me, bows are more fun, and have more soul. Guns are just a handy tool. I also think if you are gonna use one you should know how, and that means A LOT more than understanding which end the bullet comes out of.
My wife can usually out shoot me too, with just about anything! That's what I get for hooking-up with a Texas farm girl. She likes to hunt and fish though. Never gotta "make it up to her" when I go. She always goes with me.
OkKeith
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GOT GLOCK?
I carry everywhere all the time, even church. Too many wackos these days.
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I don't know if this is a good example but I once asked my financial planner How much money does one invest in higher risk options? Easy answer he said. What is your sleep factor? I guess packing heat comes down to the same deal. I know the odds of a bad encounter whether human or beast are small at best. I know a clean camp, food stored properly, and cooking away from where you sleep will do more good than carrying a gun. Even with a gun will you really get off a killing shot, I mean one that stops a Griz, in time? I had a friend killed in Montana who was killed while he dressed his cow elk out and his 270 was within his reach. Maybe you read about that one RMEF magazine. I for the most part think 99.9% of all bear stories are exagerated or somewhat streched! The problem is when I float hunted in Alaska and woke up to tracks my size 10 boots would fit into and this was feet from the tent it did not boost my confidence. Neither did stalking down trails next to the river in willows over my head where I could only see a few feet ahead. Better yet try it at night! Packing heat is a pain. Try to get a handgun into Canada. See how much fun it is even if your going to Alaska or lower 48 and you have to pack a firearm. Then there is carrying the thing. They way a ton and even more if you have a pack on, or are in rough or mountainous country. In answer to the question I have done both but would state that packin heat really takes away from the hunt and enjoyment. Maybe the question would be better stated as to how we deal with fear and overcome those fears through our own knowledge and experience. Even if you do survive some kind of attack I think your problems would be just beginning. If it is a griz you will have to deal with fish and game. If it human who knows what will happen. Well just some food for thought. I don't have any answers.
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People are the scariest things in the woods where I hunt so I do it for 2 legged predators walking back or putting away stuff at the parking areas. I have my CCW so it is legal.
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The pistola is not for bears or cougars, it is for two legged predators. Need it one time and don't have it and your mind changes or your dead.
As for being a pain to carry, I used to carry an M-60, 15 lbs of extra ammo and a 60 lb ruck full of explosives as a combat engineer. 5 pounds of pistol and extra ammo ain't nothing. I don't even notice the extra weight. I suppose if all you have ever hunted with is a light trad bow and a back quiver, then things might seem different.
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Lowell,
I don't envey you and all that gear!
I carry a pretty light pistol for the firepower it provides. Titanium .357, 7-shot revolver, 4 inch barrel. Light enough (27 ounces, unloaded) that I don't really notice I have it, it has enough knock down power to handle anything I might have problems with. I doubt I will run into any grizzlies.
It's a good tool for what I use it for. I never really trusted a semi- for field use (not one made for civilian use anyway). Good thing about a revolver, if it don't go bang, just pull the trigger again. No "tap and rack" needed.
Thank-you for your service to this country! Dad was in the 5th SF group from 1961-1968 in SE Asia, little brother currently serves with a Scout unit for an Air Assault Brgd. He has been to Iraq and is prepareing to be deployed to Afganistan. My family understands the sacrifice you have made.
OkKeith
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I saw a year in the sandbox myself. Rather drab, with unfriendly locals, and enough heat to make Texas in the summer feel nice.
My carry piece is a very reliable 1911-A1. I carry 3 hi capacity magazines for a total of 42 rounds. Two mags of hollow points and one of solids. If I see a black bear or cougar, I am going to shoot it with my bow. I always have tags in season. peace of mind is worth a little weight on the hip.
If I saw a grizzly bear, I would avoid it one way or another. I wouldn't bother shooting it with a 45 ACP. It would just piss it off and end up with me dead for sure. Better to avoid the bear, or hit it with pepper spray.
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We have Black Bears and Mt. Lions here. The bears are pretty numerous in the SE part of the state but the cats are extremely few and far between.
We go to Wyoming every year for two weeks to do some fishing in the Tetons and the Shoshone/Bridger Forest. For sure bears and cats in that area.
How I would love to get a chance to hunt the mule deer and elk we always see while we are fishing. Chasing a mule deer up there, spot and stalk, is a dream hunt for me.
OkKeith
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Many of you have allowed your government to take away your right to defend yourselves and your loved ones. I find this puzzling...
I always carry, my wife always carries. Always.
It's like any other type of insurance, hopefully you won't need it but if you do...
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I haven't hunted yet with a bow. But when in the woods, camping, etc. I am always armed. Especially, way up in the Cascades or somewhere remote. It's just prudent.
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It recently became legal to pack any firearm you want in the KY woods during any of the hunting seasons. I believe most hunters are very honest people and will obey game regulations. Therefore I'm not too concerned about bowhunters packing a firearm (I would think a concealed carry handgun or pistol). However, I don't understand the need for "protection", especially in the Eastern United States. The only dangerous animal in the woods is a tresspassing or careless human. I wouldn't consider using lethal force on either so why take the firearm? Anyone concerned about coyotes needs to know there are only two reported human deaths attributed to coyotes in the past 40 years -- a child in CA and a folk singer this past October in Nova Scotia. I'm legle to pack a handgun but never do. But, I support the right to keep and bear arms by any responsible and law-abiding person anywhere, anytime.
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Cell phone I think the best carry along.
Unfortunately in my old and best deer spot, cell phone didn't work.
Lots of problems with idiots up there, usually took a sidearm.
If I bucked out I'd just go up and walk the property line with the FNC or AR. High visibility, plus a few bump fires when not visible.......it scared the morons away fairly well. No real probs after 2 seasons of that.
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My handgun is on me every waking hour....period. I have carried for the last 35 years, only two times I thought I might need it. Never had to display, or even verbally warn, however it was comforting to know it was there IF I needed it.
Coffee, you raise some interesting points.....there is always room for the "action vs reaction" reality. I hope I'm never surprised in a situation as you described.
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I typically have one in my tent, but typically do not carry while hunting. I have an issue with the once in ten life times need to defend myself or others around me from some sort of visit at night.
Every once in a while you hear of a camper getting dragged out of their tent and their camp mates getting to listen while the bear eats them. That won't happen, I won't sit there listening.
Likely I will never ever have to use it, but it helps me sleep and that makes it worth it.
ChuckC
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I carry. Usually my .357 Blackhawk but more recently my 1911 .45acp. We have some strange neighbors and direct access as well as all the water on the Mountain starts on our place. Growers love to trespass. When we are bowhunting there is always a long gun in the truck. If shtf on the place I will use my handgun to get one of us to the long gun that is in the truck. Just a fact of life that we have to plan that way in growing country. We've had to run off trespassers before and shaking a stick at them does not seem to impress them very much.
And...I'm not paranoid...I'm prepared!
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Yes, I've been known to carry my Glock 20SF 10mm, but have found that it is a lot of extra weight to carry. I bet none of us wear a plastic hard hat while out in the woods though, where you stand a greater chance of being struck by lightning than attacked by a bear.
I say, plastic hard hats because, as an ex-cable installer while working telephone poles that is what keeps any static shock from entering your head.
Here in Montana, no permits are needed for carrying outside of city limits.
I guess its better to have and not need, than to need and not have.
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My career as a police officer made me pretty aware of my surroundings, and that there are a lot of people out there that do not have my best interests in mind. As Clint Smith likes to say, carrying a handgun is not meant to be comfortable; it is meant to be comforting. Better to be armed and never need it than to be unarmed and only need it once.