Trad Gang
Main Boards => Hunting Legislation & Policies => Topic started by: Keb on January 25, 2013, 09:51:00 AM
-
The commissioners are;
Gerald W. Lauber Topeka [email protected]
Robert Wilson Pittsburg [email protected]
Don Budd Kansas City [email protected]
Tom Dill Salina [email protected]
Randall Doll Leon [email protected]
Debra Bolton Garden City [email protected]
Roger Marshall Great Bend [email protected]
Please voice your concerns in a professional manner. Let them know your concerns about the changes beeing made.
Unless you have been under a rock, there are more proposed changes coming, xbows during archery season, any caliber center fire for gun season, more non resident tags.
I am a non- resident and love kansas, I do not want to see it go down the tubes, if you feel the same, know is the time to send some emails, make phone calls,ect.
Thanks
-
I told Roger Marshall my thoughts and conserns but it has already passed and in effect for the next year I think its crap crosbows in archery season is a big mistake unless handycaped is only exception and any centerfire rifle with a 50grn bulit or biger is a horible mistake as well
-
wonder why you think its crap xbows in archery season. after all, they are archery equipment.
wont comment on the centerfire concern.
-
Crossbows are only considered archery equipment by the manufacturers.
If it has a stock, and trigger, scope and is held to the shoulder like a rifle, shoots a bolt, how is that considered archey?
-
actually the US Government considers xbows archery equipment-it's listed there for tax reasons.
a bolt is just a short arrow-regarding how it is shot, its shot like a xbow.
xbows predate firearms by 1000 plus years.
I am seeing xbows now in leading archery magazines.
it's a bow. really dont understand why you, or anyone has an issue with them in archery seasons.
-
Strictly speaking from an observance POV, I've seen the majority of the anti-X-bow postings seem more like the anti-high cap magazine speeches. Or like the rifle hunters that say only muzzle loaders with iron sights and flint lock actions. The analogy continues into infinity, however, it remains snobbish. Thats because we use trad gear because we have the CHOICE to do so. Many people on here seem to take away the choice not to.
Not that I'm totally convinced X-bows are the way to go, don't own one & don't intend to. Does not change that it is still a bow, as are compounds.
If we are going to say no x-bows then whats next? Now compounds, only trad gear? No recurves or take downs? How about only self bows you made?
Frankly, though I've read on other postings here that it's not helping the number of hunters afield, that does not jive with most state DNR agency numbers. I don't care how a person hunts as long as it's ethical towards the animal.
-
The only reason I dont like crossbows in archery season is in my neck of the world is most of the gun Hunters I have talked to are runnin out and buying them up so they can hunt in archery season and all they seem to talk bout is how far out they are able to shoot their deer at 100 yrds and I think we are gonna have a lot of crippled deer cause of this law and the same with the centerfire deal I dont care that they hunt but I know alot wont be ethical about it and it will give all a bad name
-
Absolutely! I work with a guy who thinks any bow shot beyond 25yds, trad, wheel or X bow, is unethical. Yet we know that's not the case. Fred Bear took many of his animals at distances wheel bow guys would scoff at. On the other hand, my grandfather thinks all archery hunting is unethical because he used to help on a trad only draw hunt here in OK. Says he saw hundreds of deer at the MCAAP hunt routinely wounded. This is pre/early wheel bow times.
Point is, unethical shots can be made by any hunter regardless of method or distance. It is up to that hunter to determine their personal max effective range.
Personally, I would like to see a special trad only early season in many states.
-
dont really see why there should be a specific trad season.
should there then be a specific compound season? then a specific xbow season.
towards 100 yard shots, obviously these guys are clueless.
massive drop-but incidently there were 100 yard shots plus reported by likes of Saxton Pope/Art Young. Read Howard Hill's Hunting the Hard Way to learn about an elk reported to be shot over 100 yards.
-
I just sent in mt Kansas Deer application,fortunately the area I hunt does not get alot of pressure during Archery season and I hunt private property.
I think this will affect the Eastern part of the state more, where the population is greater. I personally do not believe crossbows should be in Archery seasons. If you choose to hunt with a crossbow hunt during rifle season.
If it has a stock, sights and a trigger, I do not believe it to be a bow. If you wish to extend your range to 60-70 yards and beyond why not just use a rifle? I thought bowhunting was supposed to impose limits, and encourage woodmanship skills.
JMHO, Pat
-
Hi I agree with Tater. It has a stock, trigger, safety and scope. It is not a bow! You don't have to draw it in the presence of the animal. You don't have to practice endlessly to be good with it. Shoot it few times to sight it in. Shoot it a few more times to get used to the trigger pull. You don't have to get close to the game. I'm sure they are fun to shoot. So are ARs, 7mm, 870s, .357s, sling shots and muzzle loaders. Xbows and the bulk of the people that like them are OK but leave them in the gun season....Lock, stock and barrel the crossbow has absolutely no place in archery seasons..
Joe
-
Originally posted by joe ashton:
Hi I agree with Tater. It has a stock, trigger, safety and scope. It is not a bow! You don't have to draw it in the presence of the animal. You don't have to practice endlessly to be good with it. Shoot it few times to sight it in. Shoot it a few more times to get used to the trigger pull. You don't have to get close to the game. I'm sure they are fun to shoot. So are ARs, 7mm, 870s, .357s, sling shots and muzzle loaders. Xbows and the bulk of the people that like them are OK but leave them in the gun season....Lock, stock and barrel the crossbow has absolutely no place in archery seasons..
Joe
x2
-
sorry, but its a bow.
dont have to get close to game? really?
not a gun, so it doesnt belong in gun season.
-
Yes, really. I see them 'sighting them in' at 80, 90, 100 yards. Shooting them off sand bags on a bench rest (try that with a 'real bow'). Cock, lock and load the thing, lean it against a tree and when a deer steps out at 100 yards, range it, take the safety off, lay it across the shooting sticks put the cross hair on the kill spot and pull the trigger...sorry, I don't mean to be hard to get along with....but...not a bow.
Joe
-
sorry Joe
definitely a bow.
thats why they are called crossBOW
hint: the last three letters give it away.
I own an xbow and to sight in with my Excalibur at 100 yards would create such an high trajectory it would be useless for closer shots.
we are talking here of speeds of 300-400fps at the very most.
you didnt know its possible to shoot a bow off a rest?
one can steady their arm against a tree-a rest-.
but anyway, its definitely a type of bow.
-
I shot my compound bows at 80-100 yards on a regular basis. Groups were consistently better at that range than the "average" compound shooters groups @ 40 yards, and the "average" trad bow shooters groups @ 20 yards. With well over 200 big game bow kills under my belt, my average shot distance……..well under 20 yards.
Crossbows have just as many drawbacks as they have advantages over compounds. Compounds have shooting sticks to brace from the ground up, and drawlocks to hold them at full draw.
Resting a crossbow is nice, but not often possible under normal hunting conditions. Crossbows absolutely do not have a longer effective range than a compound, nor are they any more accurate…….but they are easier to be marginally proficient with for rookies.
IMO, crossbows are an overall inferior weapon compared to compounds…….for physically healthy adults.
Also, no worries where former gun-only hunters are concerned. Kansas is not the first state to include crossbows. There will be an influx during year one, but when the former gun-only hunters find out that they need to be serious about scent control, movement, and deal with limited yardage just like a compound bow, they fall to the wayside very quickly. If they had the resolve to play our game, they would already be doing it.
Much worry about nothing.
-
When you take away the element of having to draw on the animal, it is just not archery hunting. The special seasons are for the challenge, crossbows eliminate the ability one has to learn to draw on an animal. That is why it does not belong in archery only seasons.
-
The argument of drawing in the presence of game is as legitimate as the anti-crossbow argument gets.
As a bow hunter who has absolutely zero desire to ever hunt with a crossbow, I still say that drawing in the presence of game is an art easily learned. I have been "busted" drawing on an animal I decided to shot 3 times in nearly 40 years of bow hunting. I have successfully gotten to full draw and sealed the deal about 98% of the time I tried it. I honestly feel that if I had used a crossbow on every one of those hunts, the horizontal limb configuration would have gotten me busted more than three times.
Scent control, including trying to always hunt downwind of your quarry, and patience are much more important, IMO, to a successful hunt.
Ohio has had full crossbow inclusion since the mid 1970`s-they have a super healthy herd, and world class trophy deer. My home state of PA went to full crossbow inclusion maybe 3 years ago now…..it has literally been a non-issue other than the fear prior to the first season of inclusion. Most of the new hunters gained because they could use a crossbow are already out of the game, and the one`s who have stuck with it are using a short range, quiet weapon that launch`s a stick with a broad head attached to fill their one buck tag.
-
In Michigan many years ago, a bow was defined as something that was hand drawn and hand held. It was illegal to have devices that held the bow at full draw. Somewhere along the way that definition was forgotten. Just follow the money.
-
the old draw argument is just that..an old argument.
now we have blinds that one can draw from and the animal cannot see you.
frankly never have had problems getting drawn on an animal.
regarding "hand drawn" as the definition of a "bow".
never been.
there is just no legitmate reason to be opposed to xbows.
-
There are many legitimate reasons to oppose crossbows during an archery season or archery only area.
They are pre-cocked and pre-loaded PRIOR to game being sigthed.
They can be fired from a sitting position with the RIFLE STOCK being rested on a shooting rail or shooting sticks.
They utilize TELESCOPIC sighting devices.
They shoot a FLATTER TRAJECTORY than a compound or traditional bow.
They have "out of the box" potential to hit a target at 100 yards.
The surface has merely been scratched as to their potential draw weights, and fps.
Please tell me how they can be considered archery equipment. And do not use the line that it shoots an arrow. It shoots a bolt for one thing, and secondly, look up the AIRROW. It is a barrel that fits onto a Ruger .22 rifle that allows you to shoot arrows out of the barrel. Is that suppopsed to be considered archery tackle as well because it shoots and arrow?
FOLLOW THE MONEY!!!!!!
-
Regarding Ohio, since legalizing crossbows for use during the archery season, crossbow hunters out number bowhunters by 3-2, and that ratio is also reflected in the harvest totals. But what is not said, is that the Ohio firearms season is 6-10 days long. Maybe that has a lot to do with the size and trophy quality of the deer herd.
-
Al
xbow hunters are bowhunters.
towards your other points.
crossbow "bolts" are shorter arrows.
I actually made some up. Took my 2216 classic arrows that I used to shoot with my trad bow, and cut them down.
towards your other points..it's a crossbow stock. Crossbows predate firearms.
scopes? hmmm..ya didnt know there where scopes on compounds?
your other points..well an xbow is a bow.
just the way it is.
-
Al
check out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ld0kOyzu2PQ
as an example.
regarding 100 yard shots..
perhaps you should read Howard Hill's Hunting the Hard Way
Saxton Pope's Hunting with a Bow and Arrow has claims of longer shots as well
-
xbow hunters are NOT bowhunters....a bow is hand drawn, held and released with no stock, cocking mechanism or trigger release.
they may be historic, vintage, etc...but are not bows
the whole idea of bowhunting only seasons was to allow bowhunters the ability to hunt wildlife without competing against the rifle hunters on more relaxed animals...as bowhunting was seen as a primitive (hence, much tougher) challenge in the taking of animals due to range and accuracy...and drawing without being seen in close proximity to the prey.
just like rear loading or modern muzzleloaders are NOT what was intended by the founds of traditional muzzleloader seasons. A modern blackpowder rifle can routinely take animals at 200 yards with little or no concern as to weather. At this point they are really just single shot rifles....not a truly primitive weapon that requires skill, technique and perseverance to be successful like an iron sighted flint or percussion front loading blackpowder rifle shooting balls or conicals.
if all of these people were really enjoying and embracing the history of the xbow to hunt with then why do they only use them during archery only seasons...why dont they hunt with them in rifle season as well. Why...because they are opportunistic hunters getting on the bandwagon, believing the hype and wanting the most time afield with the least amount of dedication or input. Not 100% the case but 99% I would say.
It is infitely easier to shoot a xbow afield at an animal and be undetected before, during and after the shot than it is a bow. Just as a compound with 90% letoff is NIGHT and DAY to using a recurve when hunting turkey or a whitetail within 15 yards. Holding 8 pounds from an 80lb bow for a few seconds versus holding 50-60 for 1 second after drawing and trying to remain undetected.
they have the right to hunt with them as legal weapons...just keep them out of bowhunting seasons completely.
it is big money, manufacturers and advertisers that got this passed in every state...if they were a good idea and accepted as a bow it would have been included in 1950s when most of these seasons were enacted. They werent...it was when compounds leveled out on sales that they went crossbow to make another wave of excitement for the television and social media generations...and for those that believe accessories and technology is the answer to everything.
-
sorry Ron
an xbow is a bow so yes, they definitely are bowhunters.
I am afraid that is not the definition of a bow. If I took a self bow, and put it in a hooter shooter, it would still be a bow.
towards the 50s..at one time it was illegal to use a compound bow in an archery season.
then there was the let off issue..some states didnt allow more than 65 per cent. Expandable broadheads werent allowed.
but the point is that seasons and regulations can change, and do change.
currently 42 per cent of states allow xbows in archery season. and it seems that every year, another 1 or 2 come aboard.
I was just reading a copy of Bowhunting World-xboows in there. You can read articles on them in BowHunt America as well.
why would anyone want to hunt in firearm season with an xbow? its not a firearm.
the reason people want to use them in archery seasons is simple-viable archery equipment and the right to choose.
-
Simply stated, If it was a bow, it would be called a bow. It is not.
ChuckC
-
is not a longbow a bow?
just a different type of bow Chuck.
I was just at two Cabelas stores..one just outside Minneapolis and the other at Huffington Estates in Illinois.
went to their respective archery depts and they had crossbows there.
was just reading a copy of BowHunt America and crossbows in their as well.
take a look at this:
http://www.nfaa-archery.org/field/styles.cfm
scroll down and read about crossbows lol
really, it is silly to argue an crossbow is not a bow.
it would be better to admit that it is a bow, but then try to argue that it should not be allowed.
but, that would also present insurmoutable problems because of advances with compounds, and advances in hunting equipment in general.
I suppose argueing about the "draw and movemnt"-but then you gotta argue that blinds that allow one to shoot from inside and hide all movement also shouldnt be allowed.
you could argue those that shoot crossbows are lazy-but people such as myself actually own and shoot an xbow, and have 3 custom made recurves with a 4th on order, and a longbow as well!
-
I think it is silly to argue that it IS a bow. And I AM arguing that it shouldn't be allowed. Let it get its own season.
In addition. . except for calling out to warn the troops, which is the way this topic started the rules of this site include :"No non Trad Bowhunting equipment (compounds, crossbows, mech heads, lazer sites, guns, etc...or even pics). We are pushing that even now.
ChuckC
-
Chuck
your government says its a bow.
crossbow manufacturers are members of the Archery Trade Assn.
Archery books say its a bow, so do archery magazines.
outdoor retailers such as Cabelas (Bass Pro as well was at their Portage IN store) so I think its reasonable to assume its a bow.
I really dont see how a discussion of crossbows violates rules, though I admit this is a traditional archery forum.
the problem with a crossbow having it's own season is where does this season come from?
I have yet to read one word of you that traditional bows and compounds should have a seperate season-most just lump them all the same.
if we took the archery season and subdivided it on equipment choice how could we do that?
I also fail to understand why someone else using an crossbow really makes a difference btw. as an example, lets say one day I sat in my treestand with my wes wallace mentor wth zwickey broadheads-next day take my excalibur crossbow. really, so what?
-
Here is an example of long range shooting-straight from Hunting the Hard Way by Howard Hill:
page 93
in my earlier days of hunting, any animal under 200 yards was close enough for me to shoot at if I could not get closer-not that I ever killed one not that far. yet once, in wyoming i killed a bull elk at 185 yards,.....
and then he accounts of limiting his shooting to 60 yards..
-
In the state of Pa where x-bows are legal.If you check the Hunting and Trapping digest under bow and arrow definitions a x-bow does not meet the definition of a bow. The bow must get its power from pulling the string by the shooter. Must be drawn, held and released by direct and conscious effort by the shooter. In Pa a X-BOW IS NOT A BOW! Legal yes a bow Not! Just stating the facts. That being said its just a nother way to harvest game.TD. PS. i hope you don't believe everything your goverment tells you.
.
-
You don't get it, and I can't change you, I don't even want to try.
My government (Wisconsin) so far doesn't call it a bow. Of course the archery association and big box retailers do, the manufacturers are paying big money to make certain that they do. It is called marketing. Once sales slack off on these puppies then the next money maker will take over. It doesn't matter if they work or not, make sense or not. They don't care a whit about "the rest of the story" They care about making a lot of dollars no matter what or who is hurt by it. Check out any sporting advertisement and you will see. Here, buy this, it is easier, it is better, you will actually be a real hunter. . bull
Nobody cares if you get to hunt with the damned things. What we care about is keeping them separate from bow season, cause it ain't one. .
ChuckC
-
Well said ChuckC!
-
No one is denying anyone the right to hunt. What is wrong is forcing something down the throats of those who cherish the archery season, who practice diligently with their tackle, and who do not compromise the integrity of the archery season.
Crossbows pre-date firearms because gun powder and the firearm was not yet invented. The despots, overlords, and kings wanted a longer range weapon, so the crossbow was created.
I've never seen a SINGLE incident of a compound marketed with a scope on it, as EVERY crossbow is.
The government did not know where to place it, so they categorized as archery equipment, so the ATA jumped on board. Funny, last I checked, the airlines regard it as a firearm when checking a cased crossbow.
On YouTube there are plenty of videos showing crossbows shot out to 100 yards at paper targets, balloons, and whatever else.
They want the archery season because they want the firearm hunter to buy a crossbow and pretend to be a bowhunter. End of story.
-
Al
now you claim "forcing something down the throats etc.."
no one is forcing you to use an crossbow. You are free to use what you want.
if you think everyone practices diligently, then you are mistaken.
I used to work as an archery tech for Cabelas, and I cannot begin to tell you how many bowhunters do not practice and frankly are just out there to try to bag something.
now whether they do or not, I dont know,
I saw crossbows in the archery section of encyclopedias in the 1960s.
if I was going to check my crossbow in, I would use a firearm case. Remove my recurve limbs, and lay them right in.
I posted of Howard Hill and Saxton Pope with 100 yard shots.
it's a bow..nothing more...crossbows arent going away.
much ado about nothing.
-
Originally posted by ChuckC:
You don't get it, and I can't change you, I don't even want to try.
My government (Wisconsin) so far doesn't call it a bow. Of course the archery association and big box retailers do, the manufacturers are paying big money to make certain that they do. It is called marketing. Once sales slack off on these puppies then the next money maker will take over. It doesn't matter if they work or not, make sense or not. They don't care a whit about "the rest of the story" They care about making a lot of dollars no matter what or who is hurt by it. Check out any sporting advertisement and you will see. Here, buy this, it is easier, it is better, you will actually be a real hunter. . bull
Nobody cares if you get to hunt with the damned things. What we care about is keeping them separate from bow season, cause it ain't one. .
ChuckC
actually Chuck I do get it.
I own one. Have trad bows and compounds as well. its all archery equipment.
you keep claiming to me its not, but seriously everything else says it is.
-
Originally posted by TimDougan:
In the state of Pa where x-bows are legal.If you check the Hunting and Trapping digest under bow and arrow definitions a x-bow does not meet the definition of a bow. The bow must get its power from pulling the string by the shooter. Must be drawn, held and released by direct and conscious effort by the shooter. In Pa a X-BOW IS NOT A BOW! Legal yes a bow Not! Just stating the facts. That being said its just a nother way to harvest game.TD. PS. i hope you don't believe everything your goverment tells you.
.
Tim
wasnt able to download your regs, but I did notice crossbows in archery season.
so, PA considers them archery equipment.
-
It is not forcing someone to use one, but forcing it upon the bowhunters by intrusion into the archery season. It is purely manufacturer driven. They see dollars by enticing firearms hunters to purchase one and hunt during the archery season. That is the only reason why you see the proliferation of them.
The manufacturers lure State game agencies with the allure of a new license fee to collect with the implementation of crossbows into the archery season.
It has nothing to do with the elderly, the disabled, the physically challenged, the female, the youth, the wounded Veteran, or increasing hunting participants. IT is about conning the hunting brethren into believing that they(crossbows) are the second coming, all the while expanding their bottom line.
I have been called an anti-hunter, an animal rights terorists, selfish, elitist, cursed at, and threatened. All this, not from a non-hunting public, but from outdoor writers, and hunters themselves. All because I want to keep the sport pure and not compromise its' integrity by allowing a superior implement.
-
Superior implement = compound vs trad.
-
ColdWeather before they were legal in bow season you could use them in gun and muzzleloader season. Did that make them a firearm? X-bows legal in Pa. but you can't use a draw loc on a compound where do you think that came from. My brother who was the best bowhunter i know know uses a x-bow due to health issues. He does not consider it a bow he simply calls it what it is. We hunt together and always will me with my long bow and he with his x-bow its all good. No disrespect ColdWeather its simply not a bow is a blow gun a gun? I think there is room for all of us again no disrespect. TD.
-
WOW! More drama and disinformation than a congressional hearing.
I`ll see your 100 yard crossbow video`s, and raise you as many 150 yard and up compound video`s as you have time to watch.
For arguments sake, lets say crossbows should have their own season……..where does it fit in? It would almost assuredly mean a shortening of another season? Maybe even some rut time from the current archery season.
Are any of you willing to give up a portion of the current archery season so that you do not have to soil yourself sharing the timber(that you do not own)with some unethical heathen toting a weapon spawned by the devil himself?
I will be willing to bet that almost all who are vehemently against crossbows have never personally shot one.
Despite staged video`s shot under perfect conditions by expert shooters, crossbows simply are NOT the long range weapon many seem to think they are. I have personally shot top end crossbows from a few manufacturers. While it is true that in the hands of a rookie, a crossbow offers an advantage in the race to reaching marginal proficiency, in the hands of a good shooter, the crossbow is an inferior weapon. In more situations than not, the crossbow can be a hindrance in hunting situations when compared to a compound bow.
While personal experiences can vary, in my 40 years of bowhunting, and that experience covers more than 20 US states, 4 Canadian provinces, and off the top of my head at least 6 oversea`s countries……….hunters are hunters.
I have never seen any evidence proving that recurve/longbow hunters are any more ethical than hunters using other weapons, nor have I noticed that traditional only hunters have a higher percentage of hunters who limit themselves to their own personal range limit based on their true shooting ability.
Unlike Cold Weather, who I do not know, I do not hunt with a crossbow, and I have no desire to do so.
Like Cold Weather, I know that the crossbow has not negatively impacted an archery season anywhere they have ever been implemented. In fact, Ohio went to full inclusion around 35 years ago. Ohio has some of the best whitetail hunting in the country. 35 years ago Ohio`s deer hunting was pretty lousy.
Oh, one last point……..ALL good business owners use advertising dollars to promote their product, crossbow manufacturers are no different in that regard than bicycle manufacturers. If an advertisement can make you throw away your current vertical bow, or current bicycle, and run out and buy the model you just saw in an advertisement……..then you were not truly attached to what you already had anyhow.
Lot`s of smoke on this subject, but to date………no fire.
-
Mitch you make some good points. My brother would much rather carry his compound if able. He says no great advantage at his hunting ranges. Says there heavy and cumbersome i guess there is pro and cons. I have shot them just not for me. I guess my only argument is i don't see them as a bow. That's my take on this subject that being said i think it is for the best if all hunters stick together. Again no Disrespect to any one. TD.
-
Tim, there is no doubt that a crossbow offers some advantages in hunting situations. Not having to draw when it is time to shoot is probably the biggest plus usually stated, and it is a valid point.
I have been busted drawing my vertical bows twice since I started bowhunting, and have been afraid to even try drawing probably 4-6 times.
I have tried to draw, and was successful at it over 200 times on big game animals. There is no reason that my results should be much different than anybody else`s.
I agree with you Tim that a crossbow doesn`t seem to be like what I envision a "bow" to be either.
My defense of the weapon comes from a few simple points…..
1. It is a weapon that enjoys no longer range than a compound bow
2. It is a weapon that utilizes energy store in bent limbs, and launches an arrow via synthetic string, released by a mechanical trigger……just like a compound bow.
3. It does NOT go "BANG" when fired.
To an experienced and physically healthy bow hunter, the crossbow offers no overall advantage over a compound bow. In fact, I would argue that for hunting purposes, the crossbow is an overall disadvantage unless health issues dictate its use.
One more point……..some folks point out that bow hunters should be dedicated and practice until they are proficient. I do not disagree with that. Unfortunately, not all bow hunters are dedicated enough to do that, and allowing any government agency to dictate proficiency would be a huge mistake……all it would take is an anti-hunter to gain control of said agency and the litmus test would be 1" groups @ 1,000 yards……the end of hunting.
Since the majority of bow hunters, both wheeled and traditional readily go hunting with skills that I personally think are woefully inadequate, if a crossbow makes them more efficient, and they are going to go hunting anyhow……more power to them.
I also agree with you that hunters should stick together Tim. :)
-
We have overlapping seasons already, several states do, Having a crossbow season and an archery season does not mutually exclude each other. What it does do is keep the numbers separate. And if the stuff hits the fan in the future, it is handled separately, not all as one happy family.
In what way is a cross bow disadventageous over any form of hand held archery equipment ? Especially in the east and south where 95% of hunting takes place from a tree or a tripod (and where a majority of archery hunters live and hunt).
Hell, from what I see you don't even have to pull it back yourself, much less hold it. You have a scope sighting system, a trigger that is not attached to your arm, Nope, I haven't shot a modern crossbow and have absolutely no need or use for one. If I get to the point that I can't pull 30-35 pounds for a deer hunt, I guess I will sit and look at my pictures.
By no means am I stating anybody else should hang it up if infirm or incapacitated in any way, but for me, that's the answer.
There are a growing number of folks who are diching their compound and coming back to stick bows, for various reasons, but pretty much, the ease of use of the compound seems to be the main reason. In my mind at least, crossbows are even easier.
ChuckC
-
Chuck, while I have never hunted with a crossbow, I have hunted enough to make some educated guess`s on how a crossbow would work in hunting situations.
First, most crossbows are very forward heavy, awkward, BIG, and clumsy. The newer reverse mounted limb crossbows are much better balanced.
Contrary to what I have read on forums such as this one before, being able to use a rifle rest out of a treestand is not the norm. Heck, in short range, woodland setups, how often do deer follow the script and walk out directly in front of you?
Speaking of wooded hunting spots……I usually have close to 100 stands up by the end of july. Those stands are in many different states. Probably 75% of those stands are set up so that my preferred shot opportunity will be behind the tree my stand is in. I shoot out the back of the tree. You are going to have a tough time pulling that off with a horizontal limb weapon.
Also, even though a crossbow is already cocked, one still has to move it somewhat to get on target, and those horizontal limbs really stand out in a vertical forest, especially when they are being moved.
On to your comment regarding concurrent seasons with different weapons…….I am not sure how that would be any different than having a weapons distinction on harvest reporting methods, whether they be mail in cards, phone in reporting, or check stations?
What "stuff" are we talking about hitting the fan? Hunting in modern times is a game management tool, no more, no less. If too many animals of a certain species are killed, seasons are shortened or temporarily closed, if not enough critters are being taken out of the herd, rifles get more time, unless it is an urban area, then archery gear gets to move into the "burbs".
As far as people coming back to stick bows because compounds/crossbows are easier to be successful with……..that was my reason for coming back. The only two critters I still have a burning desire to shoot that I have not are a cape buff, and a coastal brown bear. The bear I have no worries about tackling with a stick bow. The cape buff…….I doubt that I would feel comfortable hunting one with the poundage I am comfortable with. I will likely dust off a wheel bow one last time when I make the trip for that critter.
-
far too much drop to even be considered a 100 yard weapon.
at 40-50 yards the drop is extreme.
just another type of bow.
it has its advantages and disadvantages.
what Mitch says about poor archers in bowhunting seasons is all too true.
now, on this forum, I assume most here are more dedicated bowhunters and archers.
and they assume as I did before I worked retail in the industry, that others are the same.
well, I can tell you they are not. Lots of people shooting compounds who sky the bow, too long draw lengths.
stickbow archers who snap shoot-dont anchor-I shot with some trad archers and one person in 20 targets actually had 3 hits.
there are lots of bowhunters out there who virtually never shoot or pick up their bow before the season.
the arguments against the crossbow are pretty much the same I heard against the compound as it became established. And all false.
the crossbow is gaining popularity all the time. even in one archery magazine there is now a crossbow hunting column.
-
While I don't deny anyone's right to hunt, I do not adhere to the "big tent" theory at all. If someone feels that hurling a grenade at a herd, or digging a pit and driving spikes into the bottom in order to harvest an animal is acceptable, I do not. Hunting within a high fence enclosure is not sporting either, in my opinion. Yet, there are hunters out there who disagree, and will condemn me as "not standing as one" on that issue as well.
The crossbow is a hot topic, especially here in NYS. For decades, a VERY few individuals have been crying for the crossbow. They claimed tens of thousands want/need a crossbow in order to hunt. It was legalized for 2 years during the Regular (Firearms) Seasons of 2011 and 2012, with a sunset clause attached to it. Well, you would think that after decades of wanting it, and the so-called support for it from the tens of thousands who are being DENIED the right to hunt with one, that the numbers would have told a different tale. The total whitetail kill for 2011 was 491, and that dropped 11% in 2012 to a total whitetail kill of 438. Where is this support? OR, as I have claimed, along with the data to back it up, that they want the archery season, and nothing else. They want the crossover firearms hunter to buy a crossbow and hunt during the archery season with it.
My State bowhunting organization, of which, I am the Vice President, has done more to get the physically challenged, the disabled, and the youth involved than any other within the NYS, yet we are accused of lining policticians pockets with bribes, slandered, and vilified by the outdoor writers.
Since they cannot win with facts and data, they resort to their poisoned pens to further thier agenda. All because we do not want to compromise the integrity of the archery season.
-
WOW……just wow…...
-
I agree that it may have bow in the name but that's where the simularity stops! It used to be in most states any type of locking or holding device was illegal so this is a big leap to go with cross bows. I think the mind set is let tecnology take the place of woodsmanship or a challange. After all it would be terrible if we did not get the kill if the animal is right there!!
-
The debate about crossbows comes down to ONE thing. MONEY...it is all about money...nothing more.
I live in Michigan, where cross"bows" have pretty much taken over during archery season. I hunt almost exclusively on public land, and 90 + percent of the other hunters I encountered in the last two years have been using crossbows. Michigan requires a hunter to obtain a FREE permit when using a crossbow....I have NEVER met up with a hunter who complies with this rule, so when the MDNR releases its figures of how many hunters are using the crossbow, the numbers are WRONG!!!! So when they use those figures to estimate the impact on the deer kill data, their data is wrong.
Archery hunting has always been different than firearms season in that it required more dedication on the part of the hunter to be successfull...the crossbow removes a large part of the dedication requirement. They make it easier and that is why they are so popular...bottom line.
Popularity equates to MONEY,,more more, more.
-
hmmm
compounds make it easier. so does tree stands, shoot thru blinds. even scent control clothing!
bowhunting is just a recreational activity. nothing more.
-
It's a way of life for many of us. One that would be sorely missed if taken away, for any reason.
ChuckC
-
Chuck
and who is taking anything away from you? what diff does it make to you if one carries an xbow, a compound, or a longbow?
doesn't impact you in the least.