Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Bladepeek on February 10, 2014, 11:00:00 AM
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I suppose some of us rely a bit too much on trail cams, but drones?
http://www.theoutdoorwire.com/story/1392024940fcqxf5b5h9g
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:::gag:::
At least P&Y are on the ball. Trust me its only a matter of time before we start hearing about somebody out there shooting game via remote control. Unchecked progressivism, plain and simple.
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The way the statement is worded; it sounds like trail cameras would fall into the same category?
"We urge all Pope & Young Club members to refrain from using Drones/UAV's to locate, monitor, scout or stalk any North American big game species. UAV-assisted bowhunting violates the existing rule that states, "you may not use electronic devices for attracting, locating, or pursuing game, or guiding the hunter to such game."
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I thick ther is a app for remote gun hunting via your computer it is in Texas somewhere ? Just like one of those video games . Only it's no game you shoot stuff under a feeder ! I think I saw it on the outhouse station. Unbelievable. ,
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I remember seeing that a while back too, Dan.
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It's sad that this subject had to even be approached. :dunno: But I'm not surprised!!
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No drones or trail cameras, but baiting with donuts and corn is just fine... :confused:
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With the game and fish commissions raising cane about hogs in their states and wanting them killed out it could be very possible that they will be permitted to be used.Here there were hogs in the bottoms from the time my great great grand parents moved here and I cant see where they have ever been any problem with them.Now that the game and fish cant regulate people hunting them here they gripe about them.I would just as soon take a good hog as I would a deer.Both eat real good!!!!
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There should be no cameras on public land, it is invasion of the privacy of others using that public space. Niether the government or the people should have right to spy on others with drones, if they are going to be used for hunting, the abuses will be certain. Hunting should have adventure in it. If it is reduced to a video game, very soon all hunting will be nothing more than a video game. When you do see someone playing a video game, you can tell immediately who the loser is in that game.
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Chuck: I'd interpret it the same way.Trail cameras certainly help hunters locate game and they aid in guiding hunters to such game. Another case of technology outrunning regulations. They're in such wide use now that few game agencies will have the courage to ban them.
It's encouraging to see P&Y try to get out in front of this one, but I expect UAVs will quickly be added to the bowhunter's repertoire. I can hear the raationale now. "It's just another hunting tool." Yeah, sure. :dunno:
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I don't understand why that is even appealing to anyone. The hunting experience would be so diluted by the use of drones, you'd need a different word than "hunting" to describe what you were doing.
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Years ago I watched a local remote control airplane club play shooting games with their toys rigged with 22 caliber ammo. With the latest technology, crap will hit the fan everywhere. http://www.infowars.com/new-whistleblower-reveals-nsa-picking-drone-targets-based-on-bad-data-death-by-unreliable-metadata/
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Last I heard the FAA hasn't approved the use of drones at all, so maybe we're getting worked up over nothing...p&y seems.to be making a statement about a controversy that doesn't actually exist.
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I think P&Y is just trying to be the early bird and get people in the bowhunting community feeling negative against drones so that if and when it happens in the future their use/acceptance will be stillborn. I applaud them for the effort. As far as hogs go, say here in FL for example, I can't possibly see the logic of allowing drone use until it is legal to hunt them year round on PUBLIC land and at night. That's something I'm personally all for here in FL: year round hog hunting on public land, at night if possible. There is zero logical need to conserve pigs, they are destructive and invasive.
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If they would be allowed for hogs at night, they will be everywhere else. Position statements from the P&Y people or the FAA, will have little effect. Instead of having the gun hunter's pickups riding up and down our gravel roads during deer archery season, they will be flying drones around while we are hunting. Down the road when Chairman Hillairy Mao wants to ban them, I can just hear the, 'peel my cold dead fingers off my remote', statements. But really, I bet they would fun to shoot at.
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Sad... Just sad
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Just to be clear sad that somebody would use one if given the chance
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It is illegal to use them for big game in Colorado.
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I wake up and it's a great fall day . I think I'll go hunting today I turn on my computer take a sip of my expensive scotch and lite up a Cuban cigar .there he is a poop and yorn buck ! I take aim and press a button good shot I tell them you can keep the meat. I'm a vegan life is good !
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There are always those who take the easy way. When you begin to see the military gear being recycled into civilian markets, you will be amazed. I am fearful for our sport. I have already written my state senators asking for regulations to protect legitimate hu ters.
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Pretty sure I heard a story about some peta members harassing some gun hunters with a drone, which promptly got shot down. Not sure of the details though
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I think they would be cool. Not only could we find game outright, we can outfit them with the most current heat seek technology so we can find the critters day or night.
Think about using it to find bedding AND feeding areas. Then, you can send it beyond the critter and have a round up, driving it past the hunters.
Then, we can make a set up where the unit is equipped with a small version of a crossbow, powered by compressed gas or a small explosive device.
We don't even have to go outside in the cold or rain.
This is getting better and better.
And use the heat signature to find the critter and mark it using GPS technology so we can find it.
Then we can send out a remote controlled 4 wheeler complete with hook arm to drag the critter out of the woods and put it into the back of the pick up so we can drive around and show everybody what we got.
I love the future.
So, since I will be sitting on my. . backside doing all of this, Is a 20# bow enough to kill a deer ?
ChuckC
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only if you use a draw-loc, expandable head, ILF with laser range finder and sighting setup that shoots over 250fps. :)
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Originally posted by 14mpg:
Pretty sure I heard a story about some peta members harassing some gun hunters with a drone, which promptly got shot down. Not sure of the details though
Sounds like good practice for wing shooting. :biglaugh:
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What ever became of this? Anyone?
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Im with Blackhawk. No drones or cams but baiting is ok :biglaugh:
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"Last I heard the FAA hasn't approved the use of drones at all, so maybe we're getting worked up over nothing...p&y seems.to be making a statement about a controversy that doesn't actually exist."
Legal use of drones for profile is the thing the FAA is talking about, and I believe you have to get a pilots license, at least in TX. Also, permission to fly over private property is needed. Shooting them down is not a good option any more than shooting at aircraft flying over your property. FAA gets real excited about that.
:campfire: :coffee: :archer2: :campfire:
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My buddy wanted to bring his new drone moose hunting a few years ago. Just to scout the area he said. I asked him to leave it at home.
I said to him, while “ just scouting “ an area he already knows well, he spots a good bull and next day that’s where he’s hunting. Where is the fun in that?
He left it at home.
I’m not a fan of drones and I would happily shoot one down if it got close enough to bother me. A flu flu with a bullhead would work fine.
Dave.
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Last I heard the FAA hasn't approved the use of drones at all, so maybe we're getting worked up over nothing...p&y seems.to be making a statement about a controversy that doesn't actually exist.
Wud, that was posted in 2014. So, not sure what the rulings are now. Don't even know why I'm interested as I've never owned a drone. :smileystooges:
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Illegal in Alaska. Per the ADF&G website: https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=wildlifenews.view_article&articles_id=908
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... the current regulations state that “You may not take game by…using…any device that has been airborne, remotely controlled, or communicates wirelessly, and used to spot or locate game with the use of a camera or video device…”
“Take” is not simply harvesting an animal. According to Alaska Statutes (AS 16.05.940(35) “take” means taking, pursuing, hunting, fishing, trapping, or in any manner disturbing, capturing, or killing or attempting to take, pursue, hunt, fish, trap, or in any manner capture or kill fish or game.
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I think that a number of hunters don't want to spend the time in the woods to learn how to read and interpret animal signs anymore and that is a awesome feeling when it all comes together and you're successful in taking that animal you are hunting. Seems like to me they are looking to take shortcuts and not put in the time and effort.
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I don't believe the drones will take the place of boot leather scouting ever. Drones are not 'hands on'.
I remember a place we went to a few years ago in TX and he outfitter had a young camp/ranch hunter that would check the feeders and the cameras at the feeders. He told out group that we didn't need to go out until about 4 oclock because they weren't moving until 4:30. When I inquired how he knew that, his reply was that that's when the feeders went off and the camera pics proved it. Well, I told the group not to worry, just be ready for them to move at 9AM till dark.
Everyone saw javies morning and afternoon, and no one killed one at a feeder.
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No drones or trail cameras, but baiting with donuts and corn is just fine... :confused:
Everything mentioned is the same. It takes the hunter away from the equation and lessens the accomplishment. Why would we do things the “hard way” yet do everything possible to make that easier?
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Dudes with technology you need to think out of the box, I’m waiting for the drone that can spray doe p and grunt for deer or make sounds when I predator call, all the while I’m moving the drone closer to my shooting position. Sounds wacky but I bet it’s closer than you think.
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I'm getting one of those one that Amazon used for their deliveries to take to Idaho this fall so that I can fly my pack and camp to the top of the mountain and don't have to carry it up there myself! It will make my workout program a lot easier now since all I have to do is workout my thumbs.
In all seriousness, I don't think drones are legal for locating game in any states. I haven't heard much about that in a long time, and I think it's pretty well accepted across the board that locating game with a drone is not ok. In Michigan, there are services, similar to tracking dogs, where they can come in and find your deer for you if the dog doesn't work. However, since this would be considered locating game, they can't legally tell you where the deer is, only tell you that it's dead.
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How can you prevent someone from using a drone? Just think how easy it will be to find a dead deer. I am against them
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Fishing is experiencing the same issue with live sonar technology that hunting is with drones and thermals.
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They are being used to locate dead deer now. There is an Amish group in Ohio big into it and getting folks involved in other States. Look it up, big business. North of $500 to look for your deer with it. I know of a guy in Indiana that called one of them in, found the deer pretty quickly. Deer hunting has become high dollar, the deer farmers won’t blink an eye.
R
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Ozy, what are thermals? I mean by what you are saying, not the true meaning.
Ryan, yes, it has become high dollar for some. Can't find deer with out tech, can't hunt deer without tech, can't shoot dear without tech, can't find your way without tech, now can't find deer without tech.
Yep, sounds like a video game. :saywhat:
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This stuff is going on now in professional bass fishing. I got out years ago as the writing was on the wall. All the guys that spent years learning to put the puzzle together are getting out. Why? Forward facing sonar. Now you just buy the puzzle pre-assembled and now you just buy a frame.
Very soon there will be a generation that cannot live without technology.
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Terry, I believe he’s talking about thermal imaging ie “thermals”. Thermal binos, scopes and cameras. The deer drone guys advertise they can find deer after 48h by the heat generated by decomposition of the dead animal using the thermal imaging camera with the drone. I guess the horns are still good though…..
R
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Terry- Yeah what Ryan said above.
People here hunt with thermal imaging monoculars, binos, drones. It just became legal to use thermal imaging on public land in New Zealand. Doesn't include thermal rifle scopes though, only handheld devices.
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This stuff is going on now in professional bass fishing. I got out years ago as the writing was on the wall. All the guys that spent years learning to put the puzzle together are getting out. Why? Forward facing sonar. Now you just buy the puzzle pre-assembled and now you just buy a frame.
Very soon there will be a generation that cannot live without technology.
Same thing happening here. Guys cruising around watching a screen and throwing lures at fish when they see one. Now they are complaining that they are getting harder to catch because low and behold..........the fish are associating the boat noise with the lures that are dragged past their nose. They are their own worst enemy and now they have educated the fish and made it harder for everyone regardless of whether you use the tech or not.
They won't be happy till there's nothing left.
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Thanks Ozy!
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Clint, I am not advocating such at all with this post, just giving my take on the one experience that I've had with a thermal scope....
I was hunting last year with PDK as he had acquired a used thermal scope that he mounted on a wooden 'gun stock' he cut out just for 'aiming'. He showed it to me one evening as we looked in places that we knew held deer near the ranch house and it was cool to see that.
It was also cool to know, after the fact, that Patrick got to enjoy my stalk and shot even though I never knew he was going to follow me after I got out of his vehicle. He walked behind me after I got way out in front as he knew exactly where I was going, where the hogs were going to be, and where to set up downwind as not to spook them. Patrick used that thermal scope to watch me sneak up on the hogs which he could see also. At one point the hogs an I both were in his view. He got to see me draw and hear the hog make its death squeal. I thought that was cool and he was so excited about it that he might as well have killed the hog himself.
Then two nights later, I went with him to look for his hog and we did the normal look, track, look track and blindly busting through thick TX trash to no avail. We had really given it our all, and if anyone has tracked with me that's the only way I go. I said to Patrick, "why don't you take that scope thing and go up to that tower stand and have a look just for kicks". Sure enough the hog was still warm enough that he saw it over a 100 yards away. We were both tickled that the hog had been recovered.
I don't really see any ethical issue with that use.
However, if you shoot an animal and immediately use a thermal scope instead of woodsman ship.... well, that's another story. Same with lighted nocks, I have been in on two of those and one was a last ditch effort due to total lack of blood, the other, after 3 hours of tracking lead me to the animal only 6-8 yards ahead which I feel I would have found anyway, but the nock did give way to the arrow, and the arrow was still in the javie.
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I’ve always been fascinated with drones and the cool photography that can be taken with them. While working in the construction industry as a project superintendent, my project manager had an expensive drone he used on all our projects for aerial photography as the project progressed. It was very cool…. But… they are completely illegal to use for hunting or fishing in Oregon.
Last year my kids got me one for Christmas to play with at home. Granted… it was an inexpensive set up… But I’ll tell ya one thing. These things are much harder to fly than you would think. I spent more time getting the damn thing off the roof of the house and barn, and climbing trees to get it back than I did flying it. :biglaugh:
Once it took off over the top of the shop and headed north out of sight, and it took me two days to find it again way up in the neighbors field. I finally crashed it one too many times and ruined it… it was pretty challenging to control.
I do a lot of fishing too besides hunting, and the electronics are getting more and more advanced for chart plotters and fish finders. They now have what they call a live scope that is so detailed you can actually watch your lure and see the flashers rotating as well as the fish. I believe steps are already being taken to outlaw these in many states as there are fair chase issues being suggested. I actually got to see one of these amazing scopes in action going out on this guys boat fishing for salmon…. It was really strange watching these guys with their eyes glued to a screen at the helm instead of watching their fishing rods. I was back by the rods adjusting depth as they spotted fish higher or lower than the depth we were fishing. That wasn’t really fishing to me…
So I can see the fair chase issue in both fishing and hunting using high tech toys.
But…. I always liked the idea of having a gps tracking chip in an arrow. Trying to find a down animal in the thick brush at night often results in lost animals more than you hear about. I could get behind that tech. Kirk
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Yes Kirk I hear you, As far as fishing , I didn't use any electronics. Most people don't know that I am a much better fisherman than I ever will be a bow hunter. If I could have a bow or a fishing rod for survival it would be the fishing rod by far.
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Very soon there will be a generation that cannot live without technology.
We’re already there unfortunately ….
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Yes Kirk I hear you, As far as fishing , I didn't use any electronics. Most people don't know that I am a much better fisherman than I ever will be a bow hunter. If I could have a bow or a fishing rod for survival it would be the fishing rod by far.
I didn’t know that Terry…. As I’ve got older I’ve had to limit the amount of intense hunting excursions I take, and have given up elk hunting completely now. Our mountains in Oregon, even the coastal range that I spent hunting elk for 20 years is very intense, very steep terrain that I just cannot climb anymore. I’ll be 69 this fall and do much more fishing than hunting.
A few years ago I bought a bigger boat that can handle big water, and I do a LOT of salmon fishing, but rarely get out in the ocean with it. It’s only 19’ in length, but has two motors, and a deep V hull design that I’ve had out in some pretty rough water, and it handles very well…. Unfortunately it scares the hell out of my wide having water come over the bow in 4-5’ white caps. But… the boat has a full cabin and will handle bigger water than I want to be out in safely. It’s actually kind of sporty sometimes when the wind comes up, and the tide changes…. I’ve had a few white knuckle rides getting back to the landing in the Columbia river….
I’m getting ready to take my son in law out on his first big water adventure on the 12th of August. If you Google “Buoy 10 salmon fishing” you can get an idea of where we are going. The mouth of the Columbia is huge! Over 2 miles wide in spots, with sand bars and very dangerous tides. To fish this area safely requires a good chart plotter showing all the hazards, and the skill level to know where to be at what time in the tide exchange… being at the wrong place at the wrong time can be frightening, and even fatal in the wrong boat without experience….
Now I’m not sure which is more adrenaline stimulating…. A 1000# charging bull elk jumping over you, or dealing with a rough bar and huge waves miles from port… but both are pretty intense! Gettin way out there fishing and having a fog bank swallow you definitely adds to the intensity with cargo ships coming into the estuary that are 200 yards long….. So there is good reason to have high tech gear on board a boat that will save your life…. Kirk
Hope I didn’t get too side tracked with my boat story here….
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Kirk, no worries. I was in a tournament once at Clark.Hill And I pulled into a long narrow cove once.I saw what was going on. Others were not so smart and tried to ride it out. The caps were coming off of the hulls on those boats(newest craze on the market bs Javalines) trying to get through to get to the weigh in.
One tournament pair swam to an island and lit a fire to warm up and they were rescued standing in the water because the entire island burned up.
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getting back to electronics and hunting.... i never did use gps or maps on my phone hunting much. i was old school and used a compass and land marks to navigate.... Granted... It would make it easier to use gps, and there were times years ago when i got turned around at sundown, and spent the night in the woods rather than risking sliding off a cliff . Some of that terrain down there is very dangerous, and the elk love to hang out on the sides of those really steep canyon walls on old overgrown logging roads. i've had guys that i invited to come hunt with me down there on the coast that only came once... :biglaugh: They told me i was nuts hunting those steep canyons....
But... once you learn how to canyon jump safely. It's a blast! Our hunting party would run up to the ridge tops in ATVs then scatter out along the ridge before going over the edge. We'd put our 30# day packs on and were always prepared to spend the night in the woods, but typically the hunt only lasted until mid day before coming out in the bottom. 2-3 mile hunts were the norm, and yo never saw another hunter besides your own party...
But.... there were certain places in our 20 square mile area we hunted that you just didn't go into. one such area we called "the frying pan".... That canyon dropped off at 45 degrees with a lot of rim rock cliffs with a vertical height of several hundred feet. Believe it or not, there were elk trails that wound down those steep areas that made it passable, but getting back out with a 1000 pound animal was almost impossible even with portable winches. Typically when we get an animal down it was all hands on deck, and we would either cut them up and bring them out with pack boards, or use the winch and drag them out whole to the bottom going down hill, but sometimes if they went down close to the rige, we would winch them up in one piece....It was always cleaner to keep them in one piece getting them out. But... The Frying pan was inaccessible by road and was a 7 mile hike to get to the nearest forest service road, and you had 3 ridges to go over to get there.
A buddy of mine and I took a full pack one time and dove off into the Frying pan after parking one of our trucks below one time, and it took us two days to get out of there using a compass alone. a GPS unit would have saved us a couple extra miles of hiking.... After that scouting trip, nobody ever shot an elk on the back side of that ridge. If they dropped off into the frying pan, those animals were not pursued. It was frustrating sometimes because those big bulls down there knew we wouldn't chase em down there. We called many of them that showed themselves, but wouldn't come to the top.
Fun stuff in your younger years! I could write a book of adventures we had down there.... Kirk
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This from the IDNR REGS.
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Clint, I am not advocating such at all with this post, just giving my take on the one experience that I've had with a thermal scope....
I was hunting last year with PDK as he had acquired a used thermal scope that he mounted on a wooden 'gun stock' he cut out just for 'aiming'. He showed it to me one evening as we looked in places that we knew held deer near the ranch house and it was cool to see that.
It was also cool to know, after the fact, that Patrick got to enjoy my stalk and shot even though I never knew he was going to follow me after I got out of his vehicle. He walked behind me after I got way out in front as he knew exactly where I was going, where the hogs were going to be, and where to set up downwind as not to spook them. Patrick used that thermal scope to watch me sneak up on the hogs which he could see also. At one point the hogs an I both were in his view. He got to see me draw and hear the hog make its death squeal. I thought that was cool and he was so excited about it that he might as well have killed the hog himself.
Then two nights later, I went with him to look for his hog and we did the normal look, track, look track and blindly busting through thick TX trash to no avail. We had really given it our all, and if anyone has tracked with me that's the only way I go. I said to Patrick, "why don't you take that scope thing and go up to that tower stand and have a look just for kicks". Sure enough the hog was still warm enough that he saw it over a 100 yards away. We were both tickled that the hog had been recovered.
I don't really see any ethical issue with that use.
However, if you shoot an animal and immediately use a thermal scope instead of woodsman ship.... well, that's another story. Same with lighted nocks, I have been in on two of those and one was a last ditch effort due to total lack of blood, the other, after 3 hours of tracking lead me to the animal only 6-8 yards ahead which I feel I would have found anyway, but the nock did give way to the arrow, and the arrow was still in the javie.
They sure have their uses. The 1st time I had seen, let alone looked through one was not long ago. A mate had one and we used it while out spotlighting for rabbits and foxes. We ended up shooting a nice boar that night. We wouldn't have got it without the thermal because we never saw it with the light.
Instead of searching with the light he just pans with the thermal and promptly declares whether or not there is anything out there.
Their use during the day while 'hunting' is not something I'd partake in. They are a pest control tool to me. I'll keep my hunting as I like it.
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Yeah Ozy, he didn't ever hunt with it, just looked through it for kicks coming back to camp one night and he used it to find that one hog.
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I cant imagine how you could fly one of those things at night without crashing into trees. I mean even in Texas they do have trees...
I could see using these drones for game retrieval only... but you know that some people would still use them for scouting anyway... Kirk
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I would rather use a good tracking dog.