Trad Gang
Main Boards => Hunting Legislation & Policies => Topic started by: mnbwhtr on March 05, 2014, 02:18:00 PM
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Sf2018 and HF2573 were introduced last week. It provides for crossbow use for those over 60. I also received a letter from the Pres. Of the American crossbow federation stating that he was planning on meeting with the sponsor of HF2573 to make the bill all inclusive for everyone. Minnesotan's better start writing to the environmental committees of the house and the senate.
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My suggestion would be to "get something" when xbows come to MN. If you want longer bow seasons or anything of the sort, start getting a list together and offer them up now. Otherwise you'll still end up with full inclusion of xbows, eventually, and nothing in return.
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Thanks for the heads up. How do we track down contacts there was a good article in tbh about this last issue.
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ya I read the article in Trad Bow Mag. This guy complains about xbows in archery seasons-and that "xbows or more like firearms"
I own an xbow and have firearms. This guy is almost to ridiculous to comment on.
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http://www.leg.state.mn.us/leg/legis.aspx
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Thanks for the link...
I'll get on this tomorrow. No place in archery seasons ... Too many people abuse the doctors note already here in Minnesota, :readit: :readit:
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Cold Weather didn't he state "more like guns"? Scope mounted,pre-loaded, trigger released,aimed from the shoulder seems closer to guns than archery to me,especially "trad archery".Keep'em out of the archery season,if one is to lazy to practice with archery equipment stay in the gun season. Thats my sentiment on the "abuse" of crossbows in the archery/bowhunting seasons.
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a crossbow is shot like a crossbow. It was developed about 500BC far before guns.
I go to archery shoots and see people shoot. Lots of people are too lazy to learn how to shoot conventional bows.
I was watching one trad guy at 20 yards that had groups that would be measured in feet.
a compound guy with a bow about 3" too long draw, punching the trigger-shooting real poor as well.
I actually was on the range with my Excalibur-and was hitting the bullseye.
Now you would have no objection if these other two archers headed to the woods-although it was unlikely they would even hit a deer-maybe wound it.
But because one has an xbow suddenly they are lazy -I have been in archery for 44 years-I have not only trad bows but compounds as well-and an xbow. Been to the Vegas shoot 3 times-attended the PBS show-shot at the Longbow Safari.
I have a friend of mine who is a dedicated longbow archer-I think he has 14 trad bows-and an xbow as well. He's been in archery for over 50 years. Is he lazy too?
I think trying to "keep xbows out" which to me is to mandate in free society what someone should or shouldnt hunt with in a recreational season isnt going to work. MN will hear from those already in their recreational season-but they also will get input from other states DNRs and there is no delerious effect.
and because an xbow is a type of archery equipment and not a gun there is only one choice for its appropriate season.
I really do not understand why someone would even care. It's a recreational season and the choice doesnt effect you.
of course you will see-I understand xbows have been approved for WI.
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You have your opinion about it and I have mine. Individual examples are not the way to justify some of your opinions.I know there are some using "trad" that shouldn't along with other types of equipment guns included hunt at all.
Practice to obtain hunting kill accuracy should be the object of all.
I'm not anti crossbow as a weapon to use, just believe as many do,keep it out of the archery/bowhunting season.
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Steve
only problem you got is that xbows are archery equipment.
it's a type of a bow. It was developed when all there was bows.
far far before firearms.
I have yet to see any sort of substantial argument that someone shouldnt be able to use an xbow. Just people who "dont like it"-and excuse me but I think those opinions are based on ignorance. I have reservations that those opposed have ever actually shot one-or hunted with one.
its much the same arguments that were in the 70s as the compound gained popularity.
if you dont like it-then dont use one. But when you want to restrict someone else you had better have a good reason and since there are no good reasons I expect we will see continued growth of xbows in the existing seasons.
one comment here was to "get something" for allowing xbows. Seriously what does one expect to get? It's a recreational season-I really dont see how as a participant in a recreational season one would be owed more.
just go out and hunt your way-and let others hunt their way. much ado about nothing..
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We agree to disagree.
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My comment meaning was, if some object to xbows, the losing fight is to make a no compromise last stand to oppose them and lose all in that particular fight. Because eventually, that is the end scene of the movie. Maybe not this year, but within the next few years.
The better course is, if you think xbows may increase hunter numbers in the 6 week window of October 1 to November 15, then make a compromise with the state powers so that archery seasons start a month earlier and end a month later than what you have now, to spread out hunter numbers. Basically, expanding bow hunting opportunity is the "get something in return" compromise. Otherwise, all that will happen is some small trad groups will oppose xbows with no compromise, get stream rolled and still have the same archery season dates but with xbows for all. Expand opportunity and spread out dates is the compromise of the losing hand. And as long as tags aren't liberalized, we all win.
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I really wouldnt have a problem with that.
xbows in as choice.
the season which now includes xbows now starts a month earlier and now ends a month later.
but I think you want some sort of segregation. The difficulty is you are lumping modern bowhunters shooting compounds/laser rangefinders etc with the more traditional bowhunters.
it's much ado about nothing.
its also a losing cause. The acceptance for xbows is growing and growing. I see now xbows now in major archery magazines. Petersen's Bowhunting even has a column on them.
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You misunderstand. Xbows will be in the regular archery season. But why not take the opportunity to make positive expansions of archery dates, under the guise of compromise, instead of standing fast and getting nothing on the archery wish list? If trad groups said, "we know xbows are coming but we won't fight them if we get x,y and z in return", I bet lots of state gov's would jump at the easy transition with giving in to expanding dates than the endless fighting of having xbows with the same, old dates. It's taking a so-so hand and making it a winner. There would be no separate dates for xbows, just 60 more for all bow hunters, to spread it out.
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Minnesota has a great Muzzleloder season that is well received.
Scopes are not legal during muzzleloader season. How many cross gun archers would partake with only open sights....
:readit: :readit:
I'll bet not many....
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so if scopes were not allowed on xbows during archery season you then would have no objection to their use I assume?
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Was really a question. How many crossbow hunters would hunt without a scope?
Would you?
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the answer is yes.
I would hunt without a scope if required. Saying that...
I get a much cleaner sight picture with my scope than iron sights.
and since placing my xbow arrows as accurate as possible is my goal..
my xbow scope has marks for 20-50yards in 10 yard increments. I just sighted it in the other day.
I would like to hunt turkeys with it. wish the snow would go away!
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Originally posted by Cold Weather:
I get a much cleaner sight picture with my scope than iron sights.
HMMM....really....whodu thunkit?
and since placing my xbow arrows as accurate as possible is my goal..
my xbow scope has marks for 20-50yards in 10 yard increments. I just sighted it in the other day.
I would like to hunt turkeys with it. wish the snow would go away!
I think this post proves that this is nowhere near a Bow conversation!! :knothead:
If you like crossbows.....have fun with them....no problem. BUT, they are not a bow. Trigger, scope, blah, blah,blah....come on!!! Not trying to be a jerk but a piece of wood and a string...that's the challenge! It's OK to be interested in non traditional gear. Plenty of guys here have rifles, shotguns, crossbows, blowguns, bazookas, grenade launchers, etc. etc. etc. Just don't use them during Archery season and no need to talk about them here!!
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The way Minnesota statutes are written, crossbows are NOT bows. Let's stay within the law.
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Originally posted by mnbwhtr:
The way Minnesota statutes are written, crossbows are NOT bows. Let's stay within the law.
Exactly my point..
Good riddence to short cuts....
I hope Minnesota has common sense to this crap
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I understand WI just fell. I think the vote was 91-0.
MN will fall as well.
xbows are defined as archery equipment and taxed as such by the IRS.
while I havent read MN regulations, I am pretty confidant they recognize them as bows too.
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The last time this came up, the crossbow people tried to slip it through by changing the wording in the statutes, it didn't work so they got them added to the firearms season. Probably should read the statutes before you comment.
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if you would be so kind as post to post a link..
I really doubt that MN defines xbows as a type of firearm.
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legal BoWs anD aRRoWs FoR Big game
• Bows must have a pull no less than 30 pounds at or before full draw.
• Arrowheads used for taking big game must be sharp, have a minimum
of two metal cutting edges, be of barbless broadhead design, and have a
diameter of at least ⅞ inch.
• “Expandable” broadheads may be used to take big game if they meet
the requirements above and: 1) are at least ⅞ inch in width and no more
than 2 inches in width at or after impact; and 2) are of a barbless design
and function in a barbless manner.
• No person may hunt with a bow drawn, held, or released by a mechanical
device, except disabled hunters who have a crossbow permit.
• A hand-held mechanical release attached to the bowstring may be used
if the person’s own strength draws and holds the bowstring.
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oh ok
so a bow that pulls 25lbs isnt a bow according to MN statute?
you are talking legal bows-it doesnt say xbows aren't bows.
didnt think it would
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Wisconsin didn't "fall" or recognize them as bows. They have their own season and their own licence. They will have their own tally of kills and percent success rate. THAT is what we wanted.
The tide is already changing, Deer numbers are down, at least in WI and there are already too many people going after too few resources. Like a lot of places.
And. . most important.
CROSSBOWS ARE NOT BOWS.
ChuckC
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double post
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Basically what you are saying Cold Weather is, anything goes. If someone can shoot it and wants to hunt with it, then they should push their beliefs down everyone's throat. Furthermore everyone should be expected to accept it.
I want to hunt with a fully automatic rifle, Maybe I can get that passed somewhere?
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I will contact my legislators. In MN you can use a crossbow for turkey, bear, during the regular firearms season and with a disability permit during the archery season. Not enough for yea?
The only reason the crossbow is defined as archery equipment is because of the ATA and the IRS, sure it my be law but...
A crossbow is a crossbow...
A bow and arrow is a bow and arrow....
I'm not aware of any time in the vast history of both weapon types that there was any confusion about which was archery and which was not. The ATA got their way and the IRS get the tax on gear.
I for one will never consider a crossbow a piece of archery equipment. A crossbow is a crossbow. It is a stocked weapon that can be loaded with bolt in place and held indefinitely until a trigger is pulled. A bow and arrow works a little differently as we know. Hunt with what you like during the appropriate season, but don't try to pass off the use of a crossbow as a piece of archery equipment.
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Originally posted by mjh:
I will contact my legislators. In MN you can use a crossbow for turkey, bear, during the regular firearms season and with a disability permit during the archery season. Not enough for yea?
The only reason the crossbow is defined as archery equipment is because of the ATA and the IRS, sure it my be law but...
A crossbow is a crossbow...
A bow and arrow is a bow and arrow....
I'm not aware of any time in the vast history of both weapon types that there was any confusion about which was archery and which was not. The ATA got their way and the IRS get the tax on gear.
I for one will never consider a crossbow a piece of archery equipment. A crossbow is a crossbow. It is a stocked weapon that can be loaded with bolt in place and held indefinitely until a trigger is pulled. A bow and arrow works a little differently as we know. Hunt with what you like during the appropriate season, but don't try to pass off the use of a crossbow as a piece of archery equipment.
Well said.... :clapper:
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I like what some states did to define allowable muzzleloader accessories to keep it primitive. NO optics and NO premeasured powder. Sorry, but if the ammo is held back with a trigger, it ain't a bow.
Oh, and don't read into the Wisconsin vote on how EVERYONE is on board. The industry put it out there during development of the initial bill that it was to be a separate season, then changed the language to separate license within the existing archery season in the final. By then, they had the WBH committed to bend to the industries side and then industry pushed for the additional step for near full inclusion. See how they work things? Many people were plenty steamed. Oh, and during the hearing, some lady stood up and cried about how she 'needed' a crossbow to add more opportunity for her to hunt the regular archery season. The legislators just caved.