Trad Gang
Main Boards => Hunting Legislation & Policies => Topic started by: Uncle Buck on January 22, 2016, 08:09:00 PM
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I just watched a short video from the SHOT show put out by the Benjamin air rifle people. They are introducing a gun that uses compressed air to shoot an arrow 450fps. Now that crossbows have become widely accepted , who knows where this will end?
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I saw a video of Jim Shockey shooting a buffalo with one. He says in the video "this is a game changer for the archery world!". It's getting out of control. Herd your buck towards your pile of Dirt Nap with your drone. Ready yourself from a 100 yards away with your airbow, with a mounted scope and shoot. This has nothing to do with introducing more people to hunting, it's solely about money. Will these archery shops ever say enough is enough.
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Been saying it for years. The AirBow by Benjamin is, according to its' marketing manager, meant to introduce firearms users to archery. Ha!
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Originally posted by Al Dente:
Been saying it for years. The AirBow by Benjamin is, according to its' marketing manager, meant to introduce firearms users to archery. Ha!
You don't think your governor would ever allow these things in archery season, do you Al?
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Excuse my sarcasm Al :bigsmyl:
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I know Ron. He has his finger on the pulse of the sportsmen of NYS.
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Originally posted by Al Dente:
I know Ron. He has his finger on the pulse of the sportsmen of NYS.
I thought it was that he has his hand in the pocket of NYS sportsman!
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He wants transparency yet he shut down his own investigation into corruption. Just pathetic.
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If he had his hand on my pulse right now he would know how mad I am!!!!
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Since I've only shooting the bow for the past 23 yrs, (will be 50+ 10% this year) let me ask a question.
When compounds first arrived on the archery scene was there all this craziness I see with no one wanting them in bow season?
Did those who I'll call (including myself) traditional archers want wheelies in a separate season from them thinking all guns hunters were going out to buy wheelies to use because of the ease of use with sights and speed of arrows?
It's apparent to me that no one wants anything that's not theirs no matter what in life just like PETA's fight's drooling with craziness what they want even though they have a right not to do what they don't want to, but no right to impose their beliefs on me. Their craziness is permitted with almost no punishment given with throwing paint on a women in a $1k+ fur other than maybe a slap on the wrist. I saw the same with crossbows recently. A weapon that's has obviously evolved but never the less way more traditional than wheelies. Common sense won in most places I know and was put in a late season.
I mean come on how many gun hunters have you've guys actually recently seen go out and get a crossbow to hunt after they were permitted to be used.
I cannot name one strictly gun hunter I know who went out to buy a crossbow to hunt more.
Let anyone who wants to hunt and pay a license fee enjoy the outdoors and hunt with their choice of weapon. But for the safety of all in the woods just put it a late season as ours here with crossbow.
Very simple solution.
No anger, no hostility no craziness. Hunters getting along with hunters. Divide us we get conquered.
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I lived in northern Michigan in the early 80's and it was a common sight to see gun hunters drive up from the cities and head to the local K mart. There they would buy a Bear whitetail hunter compound, 3 arrows and an archery license, just to give this Bow hunting thing a try. Nowadays. I live in Georgia and I have seen 2 gun hunters buy a crossbow, because it was easier than a real bow. The Benjamin airbow only take two fingers to cock. If its allowed in archery season the lazy will flock to it.
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Jim,
You make some good points. Did you know that crossbows are legal to use in archery season in both the northern and southern zones on NY?
And if they are "way more traditional than wheelies" why do you need a muzzleloader tag and not an archery tag to use them? And no bowhunting education course?
Ron
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Hi Ron,
What I meant by more traditional than a compound is the crossbow has been around since at least 500-700BCE.
Being a NY'er I am aware You can hunt the seasons you mentioned.
As for needing a muzzleloader tag you are correct. IMO a battle won by the NY Bowhunters that a crossbow it is not considered a 100% form of a bow.
Yes no additional classroom training other that you are required on the NYS DEC website site to read the rules, watch a video, print and sign a card stating you have done so and carry it with you.
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Bowhunters should have fought to define archery equipment restrictions years ago. This weapon or the crossgun would never even be considered archery equipment if we would have taken a stand....shame on us as bowhunters!
Ron
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Boy Ron, you are right on!
Society, humans, seem to eventually except most everything now.
Brother in arms? Discriminate? Who's rights?
All for one and one for all. HMMM
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Originally posted by Kingstaken:
Since I've only shooting the bow for the past 23 yrs, (will be 50+ 10% this year) let me ask a question.
When compounds first arrived on the archery scene was there all this craziness I see with no one wanting them in bow season?
I cannot name one strictly gun hunter I know who went out to buy a crossbow to hunt more
No anger, no hostility no craziness. Hunters getting along with hunters. Divide us we get conquered.
In my state crossguns are legal. There's tons of guys that went n bought crossbows just to "hunt more". Don't you see that's how this stuff gets pushed through. It's the almighty dollar in action.
Federal land I hunted as a kid is useless. Gun guys doing what they do w their crossguns. Deer drives all day, why? Cause they never learned how to actually hunt but wanna shoot more deer. On my club the same type guys walk in late cause w a gun someone has always pushed deer to em from a neighboring farm. They'll walk right past you in the half light n start to hunt for an hour. Than get up n go get coffee. They screw your whole day.
I do agree w letting em use em but use them not in archery season! Muzzleloader season is fine
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It's more of a society problem we deal with. Its called entitlement and the desire for instantaneous success...
Ron
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I would think a more important subject would be the sale of public land across the USA, if this continues we wont have places to hunt, politicians are selling us out.
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They are saleing us out for profit ! And that is the key word sir profit it's directly linked to everything in this world . Do you think states would allow all this if they didn't make money off of it? But the sad fact of life is they are going to do anything they can to bring in revenue and that's across the board. It's who we are instealed in our minds at a very young age! human nature forces us to at very least try the best we can some people really have huge success in this area hence new products rolling out every year all for profit can't blame them can we for capitalizing on innovation ? After all that's the American dream . " another thing that's taught at a very young age"
And rightfully so what I'm trying to say is if they think they can go from x amount of licences to a higher number just by simply allowing a crossbow or air gun in the woods at a certain time of year there going to do it and there's nothing we can do about it progress will march on like it has for the last 241 years . This is not intended to be a rant and I apologize for being long winded
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Well, you have the ATA (Archery Trade Association) who have classified the crossbow as archery equipment, now trying to classify the Crosman AirBow as archery equipment as well. When will the ATA just stop with the greed?
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I was anti compound when they first came out then gravitated to one for 18 years before I went back to trad in 89. I never felt like I was shooting a bow when I shot wheels and actually hated them but was very good with one.
I finally came to realize I am the only one I can dictate what kind of equipment I use. I don't care about other folk, their choice won't affect me one way or another.
I shoot an osage selfbow I made, wood arrows and have killed a lot more deer with my selfbow than I ever did with wheels.
No one has ever tried to dictate what kind of equipment I should use and I extend the same courtesy to the other side as well, to each his own.
Now if they would just get rid of those inlines and make everyone hunt with a flintlock; same type of argument. I bet a lot of the guys here complaining about cross guns and air guns have a scoped inline in the gun case.
When I use a rifle it is a flinter I made, I don't care what you shoot.
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I think changes such as this will continue in the "archery" world. The reason is money, pure and simple. Like Eric Krewson, I will continue to shoot my traditional gear, and I don't really care what anybody else shoots.
I often wonder if the same people, whom I generally call the "compound shooters", just rotate form wheel bows to x-bows and will go to the air guns as the latest fashion progresses and are all essentially the same group. Will these items actually increase the number of new shooters afield?
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Eric, Sam, I also don't care what you use... right up to the point where it causes MY historically long bow season to be shorter because they make it that much easier to kill game.
You are both old enough to remember seasons with only one deer tag. Game numbers fluctuate, for a lot of reasons. Mother nature has a way of directly doing that once there are too many around, and indirectly as the cover changes, matures, falls and starts over. It has been this way since the beginning of time.
Wisconsin did it the way I am ok with ( not because of anything I told them) and that is track the kills separately, so that IF what I am saying takes place ( it is in WI), and IF they need to modify seasons, bag limits etc., they can do it to each weapon based upon its own merits. Then, use what ever you want.
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Bowhunters HAVE fought to keep their preferences the law. Frankly, they lost and in the process split their own ranks dramatically. My small organization here in KY lost at least half its memberships over that losing fight.
Some in the archery world predicted lower sales if crossbows proliferated. With many archery companies experiencing double digit, two year declines, those predictions seem right on.
I shoot PCP air rifles (squirrels). They are quite involved and require special equipment or services to fill tanks. I would not expect them to draw many except folks who already have the know how and equipment.
Any state wildlife agency can determine harvest (kill) by equipment type no matter how they sell the licenses and tags. Surveys and modern check-in requirements are routine and designed to achieve high accuracy of 2 or 3 percentage points or better.
Finally, and unfortunately, "merit" sometimes doesn't figure into regulatory decisions, especially if well-placed politicians, with no business in such things, get their way.
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Virginia is pushing hard to legalize it into theie archery season. The Bill has already passed their Senate.
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Want an honest opinion? I hate compounds. I'm 68 and have been shooting trad since the 60's. I well remember when compounds came on the scene and I'll tell you straight up, the minimum of effort required to get hunting proficient with a sighted wheel bow brought droves of second season guys out of the woodwork. By the early 90's I saw a change in the ethics of the typical bow hunter. In 1995 I had placed my Screaming Eagle tree stand on an elk wallow in N. Utah. Opening a.m. with first light just cracking I stood at the base of my tree and much to my surprise some MoFo had stolen my tree stand. That was the day I quit bowhunting, disgusted with the mentality and lack of ethics I was seeing among the ranks of the new "bowhunters". This year I drew a LE turkey tag and for the first time in 22 years, am going to take a bow in the hunting field. So I think Karma is a bitch and I get a chuckle out of all these compound shooters getting all butt hurt over crossbows.