Trad Gang
Main Boards => Hunting Knives and Crafters => Topic started by: Lin Rhea on March 05, 2009, 06:51:00 AM
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Someone asked me to take a few pictures while I was making and installing a guard soooooo......
This may not be the only way, but it's my way. It suits my tools and available materials. I've never watched anyone else while making one so there might be some things you see that are different and somewhat crude. I learned this by trial and mostly error.
Again this is a hidden or stick tang application. Other steps and stages would apply for Full Tang construction.
First, I get the blade ready to accept the guard. I have it in the filing jig squaring the shoulders so the guard will fit almost seamlessly. A sharp file is a must.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3600/3329902847_13f9c100ef.jpg)
Another view of the blade after it has been completely filed while still in the jig.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3376/3329902897_e8d992e184.jpg)
Here is the balde completely filed and ready for a guard. Notice that I file all four sides.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3652/3330738560_dda58262f9.jpg)
Now for the guard material. I use 416 stainless when available. Here is a bar of 3/8 X 3/4 along side the blade which is now wrapped and protected from scratches while all this is going on.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3632/3330742460_8d594b9599.jpg)
I need a break. I will get back here this afternoon. Thanks, Lin
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OK, I got some coffee and now for a few more pictures.
Is this boring or what? :)
The guard is cut to roughly the size I want.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3638/3329906709_7b44e22cbc.jpg)
Here is piece is rounded a little and flattened. I'm holding the blade tang on the guard material and marking the top and bottom of the tang. The rough size of the material is a little over sized at this point, as you can see. I want to slot the material and shape the whole thing in relation to the slot. Make sense?
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3645/3329910417_ee3a7418aa.jpg)
Here I'm just showing that I clarified my marks and am ready to drill and slot this thing.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3655/3330742582_de7f1805e9.jpg)
I wont go into detail about how to rough in the slot. I use a small milling machine. You can drill and file the hole too. Either way, the hole is now roughed in and I'm making sure that the fit is not sloppy and that I have room to do some hand work with files to get a press fit. You can see that the guard will only go up to this close and gets tight. Thats good.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3653/3329910337_e0061d24bc.jpg)
More to come. I have to get to work. Thanks, Lin
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Thanks Lin thats great info..bd
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great info here lin...thanks for taking the time to share
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Excellent!! Thank you for sharing. Looking forward to seeing more.
James
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Lin thanks for the info. i've only done one hidden tang so this is good learning, keep it coming, can't wait to see the finshed product.
dana
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Great! I always wanted to see this done, thank you
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Thank You for posting this!!!.....Don and Skyler
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Thanks Lin C-Ya Bob
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just the thing i needed to see
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:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
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I love this place!! Keep up the good work Lin we appreciate you sharing you skills with us wanna be's. Skippy
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Way Cool Thread. Love this kind of thread. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
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OK I'm back from work. I'll do a little more now.
The next step is to start shaping the guard into something that looks familiar. I like to start the finger curve on the backside of the guard, but using the 2 inch wheel on my grinder. Any or all of this can be done by filing or by another means, by the way. I use my grinder because it's faster and I'm used to it. You'll see that my hands are very close to the belt and yes sometimes I get bit a little. Also the guard will get hot fast, so have a bucket of water handy.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3353/3330746414_19f0ba7fa0.jpg)
At this point the finger curve has a good start and the guard is still kind of blocky looking.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3306/3330746488_71b99caace.jpg)
So now I want to start profiling the guard so I wont have to do so much after the handle material is on the knife. Some handle material is more sensitive to heat and too much shaping of the guard while the handle material is on could damage it. Now, I'm just profiling it a little.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3648/3330749484_694f0e7af5.jpg)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3537/3329913483_9a34918526.jpg)
I take a little time now to get the profile close to final shape allowing some room for final finishing with the handle material on. When I am happy that I have done all I can before installing the handle material, I finish the front of the guard to my final grit or finish type. The sides are still pretty rough, maybe 60 or 120 grit. At this point it looks like a guard.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3605/3329913609_c47ac3e8d3.jpg)
Anybody need a break? I do. I'll check back in a few. Lin
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OK here is where fitting a guard can get frustrating, but is really not that hard if you just set a standard. It needs to be tight, but not so tight that you damage the guard trying to press it on.
Here is the guard slid onto the tang and wont go any farther without some fine tuning.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3594/3330749598_423b322349.jpg)
I now will go to my guard clamp and try pressing it a little. Here is a picture of the clamp putting some pressure on it.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3651/3330756206_f2a172f254.jpg)
I'm just seeing what the guard will do, not applying too much pressure. This does something to the guard that tells me where to remove a little material. Notice the small dents in the rim of the slot, in this case, near the top and bottom. Look close.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3542/3330756244_5a0c1b35ed.jpg)
I can take a small amount of material directly from these contact points and the guard will just keep moving on up. I follow this procedure until I have the guard on and there is no slack, but making full contact with the shoulders that I have filed in the blade's ricasso. I use 1/8 inch round files or some kind of needle files as I see the need.
I have to use magnifying glasses to see the contact points and work on these till I get it right. I mentioned standards. Dont settle for less than a good fit. The knife looks so much better when the blade come out of the guard like it grew there. This will be the focal point of the knife, the guard area.
OK, the fit is now good and we are ready to permanently install the guard. I like to use JB Weld to seal the guard/blade joint.
I need to make this clear. I dont rely on JB Weld to hold the guard secure. It's good stuff, for sure, but the press fit is what is the real strength of this joint. The JBW is like a third hand during the rest of the building process and ultimately will have the joint sealed from Water, blood, etc. The JBW will hold the proper fit that you've worked hard to get and allow you to concentrate on fitting the handle.
OK back to the guard.
The guard is ready to install. I clean the guard and the blade in the joint areas. I use acetone on a swab.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3340/3330756292_c3bbc04c2d.jpg)
Then I mix enough JBW to seal the guard and apply it to the tang and shoulder areas.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3384/3329920497_15a33c8e1a.jpg)
The guard is on and clamped tight. The JBW should be squishing out all sides.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3413/3330756450_c10906843b.jpg)
Then I clean off the excess of JBW with WD-40 on cotton swabs, taking time to get the whole area clean. The oil wont hurt the blade or guard so I use quite a bit just short of flooding it. If the fit is good, just let it sit overnight and your ready for your handle. The fit should look something like this.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3550/3329920647_b717e792e8.jpg)
I will try to get some pictures of the knife when I get finished in a couple of days. I hope this will help those of you who have never done this before and get an idea of the simple tools you need to do this job. Lin
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super nice work Lin thanks again..bd
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This is a great tut Thanks Lin for taking the time to show us your way of doing this....
Is the jig you are using purchased or home grown???
Thanks again
Later.........Buzz
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Lin, thank you for this. We can't wait to give your way a try. We really understand this process better now......What about the jigs????? Are both of them home-made?????? SKYLER
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Thanks guys. Yes they are both home made. Lin
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gonna try and finish a guard this weekend, thanks for the build a long Lin, hey whats the best way to cut a hole in a handle for a half hidden tang?
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Great job Lin!
This would have really helped me out a while back these guys don't know how lucky they are to have such great illustrations.
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Wonderful work Lin. Any chance you want to continue the build along with the handle material aswell? I'm about to start my first hidden tang and would love a little help. Thanks Skippy
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Yes, I will try to go through the process when I inlet the handle material. I usually build mortised tang handles, which is what this one will be. I will do this Saturday or so.
Ian, If I am making a stick tang, I usually just drill a series of holes and connect them with files or a broach. A broach is a "reach in there and drag out the material kind of tool". Lin
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Awesome stuff Lin! Thanks for taking the time to show us how you do it! This is one of the things I love about this site!
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Thanks for showing this, Lin.
I hope guys realize how not only doing the work, but then taking the pictures, editing them and then doing a tutorial makes a 2 hour job a four hour job!!!
Looks to be one heck of a knife.
Anxiously waiting.
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ill say it again, thanks for taking the time to do this Lin....truly priceless stuff here for the beginner!!
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Nice tutorial and impressive photography skills too! Just wanted to mention that for those who can't or don't want to make their own jigs, Riverside Machine (Uncle Al) sells pretty similar setups under "knife fixtures".
http://www.riversidemachine.net/productCat0.ivnu
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Thanks Lin!...
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Thanks Lin, That was awesome.
Gilbert
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Never can get enough of these tutorials. Thanks
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Great tutorial Lin, looking forward to seeing the finished product.
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Very nice tutorial!!
Its so good that it almost makes me think I could do something like that. I'm still at the stage of learning not to get bit by the sander! :)
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Thanks guys.
I am in the process of finishing the handle. I tok some photos along the way and will get some up before long. Thanks, Lin
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Today I am finishing the handle on the hunter. The wood I'm choosing is Desert Ironwood and here are bookmatched scales.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3625/3334878571_3b778e2fd1.jpg)
I have angled the front of the scales to better allow me to get the shape I want as well as to get the pretty burls into the handle of the finished knife. I have the tang just stuck between the scales to help get thing oriented. A little planning at this point will pay off. The drawing of the handle shape is rough and oversized, but gives me an idea of the flow I want from blade to handle.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3608/3334878727_fd0a547a97.jpg)
You can see the tape that creates a hinge for the bookmatched scales. This just helps for a number of reasons, mainly to keep from getting things mixed up and the scales backwards. You also can see the slight angle of the front of the scales. They naturally oppose one another in that posititon. I'm holding the guard tight to the angled front and marking the tang's profile.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3358/3335714484_2f7f23f38d.jpg)
Now it's time to inlet the scales to fit the tang. Since the glue joint should be down the center of the knife, the inletting should be centered too with half of the mortise into one scale and half in the other. I taper the tang, so this means that the mortise should be deeper toward the guard progressively getting shallower toward the back. I use a small milling machine for this, but it can be done several ways, including small chisels, routing, dremel, etc.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3394/3334878981_6c43aca653.jpg)
In the above picture, I marked where my pins will be. Look in the mortised groove. I take a very small bit and drill from the inside of the groove out to enable me to find the exact pin location later. I do this on one scale, not both.
The scales are ready to be glued up to one another. I rough up the inside surface and degrease it before applying super glue. You have to be carefull, of course. Get your vise or clamps ready before hand and get things lined up as close as possible. This will make the wood grain line up as well as line up the two halves of the mortise. I pay special attention to the front that joins up with the guard. Naturally it seems, there will need to be some fine tuning of this area after glue up. Here is a picture of the front of the joined scales after the two halves have been evned up.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3359/3335721600_b1e80413a3.jpg)
Now the guard and handle fits up good and the tang is good and snug with hardly any movement from side to side or up and down. When done right it wont take much epoxy at all. The handle looks ugly because it's still in block form, but I have the pin location taken care of with the small locator holes. No problem. Just glue it up.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3634/3335721812_9d1c2c74c5.jpg)
Now, I have this clamp that I like to use for some knives that I saw somewhere and made one for myself. I'll show it to you in a few minutes. I have to get a picture. Be back shortly. Lin
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Hurry up.
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I'm back.
The blade/guard and the handle block has been epoxied and needs clamping. Here is the clamp I mentioned. This works well for me. This clamp has a detachable end which can be taken off and notched to accept the blade so the front of the guard will press against the jaw. With just a little pressure you can get a good joint.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3366/3334993989_0b50c5d23c.jpg)
Notice in the above picture that the small pin locator holes alloed some epoxy to squeeze out. That was why I put tape on the side of the handle to limit this. But I actually wanted to see the epoxy come out, since this allowed some air to vent and got he epoxy all the way down around the tang. Here the handle profile is roughed in and the sides are checked to make sure all is parallel. If not make the adjustments while in relative block form. This will allow you to drill your pin holes square with the centerline of the knife.
Using the locator hole, I drill pilot holes through the handle, tang and all. Then enlarge the holes to fit the small part of my step drill. While I'm drilling and since I have the handle generally profiled, I drill a pilot for the lanyard tube. Here the handle is piloted and the pins and tubing laid with it. Notice that I roughed up the tubing a little in the area that will be in the middle of the knife's handle. I feel like this will add some strength to the glue joint not only for the lanyard tube itself, but will lend this strength also toward holding the scales together, serving as an additional pin of sorts.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3314/3335739214_567225332d.jpg)
Here is the step drill. Notice the "step" will have to be just deep enough to allow the pins to screw together applying pressure to the scales and connecting through the tang. This takes a little practice, but is not too difficult.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3540/3335739028_7d60575c96.jpg)
I might mention that the pins I am using are 3/16 X 1/4 with the pilot being the 3/16 and the larger part of the pin being 1/4 inch.
To get a good idea of the depth that you want the "step", I do this.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3637/3334905569_10c5cd9dd0.jpg)
I'm just taking note where the steps are in relation to the handle sides. There is a little play here, but not much. Get this as close as you can without going too deep. Of course if the steps are not deep enough, the pin halves wont reach and connect. Here is the handle after the pins and tube are installed.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3640/3335746844_3deeca398d.jpg)
Now the handle is ready to be shaped. I use amy grinder with a rotary platten attached for some of this.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3645/3335747000_be3d57d441.jpg)
You can use files, rasps, or other means to get to the same place. I am almost finished with the knife. I just have to do some hand finishing here and there. Here is the handle after some work with the rotary platten.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3414/3335747124_d628fce3b2.jpg)
I will post pictures after I get completely finished. This might take a couple of days to get the photos. Thanks for being patient during all of this. Lin
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Awesome!!! Thank you for taking the time to put this together.
Hopefully I can put it to use soon. Been gathering equipment since we moving here to Canada, to get a small knife shop together.
James
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Lin You do awesome Work and to echo bowhunterinchile Thanks for taking the time to share Your knowledge :notworthy: :notworthy: C-Ya Bob
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Thanks Lin for the session.
I am still learning to press fit I think the part about the SHARP file is very important!!What a beautiful piece of wood!!
Lin can I bend Nickel silver??(Trying to make a special guard) Thanks Kevin
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Thanks. Kevin, yes you can bend it. If you get worried it might crack you can heat it to red and bend it that way. I have watched David Anders actually forge nickel/silver into shape with a hammer.
Lin
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kevin, it's hard to break that stuff, i had a skinny piece of cutoff and it bent into a pig tail without breaking. all though i did ruin about 4 inches of 1/4 inch brass by not heating before bending :( .
looking fantastic lin.
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Lin, that is a great tutorial in every way.
Thank you so much for sharing your tricks. I know it has taken you a long time of trial and error to make them work so well.
Dan
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Lin , thats going to be a dandy!! Marco
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Lin, thank you so much for that in depth tutorial. Your time and effort is greatly appriciated. You have anwsered many questions that I had.
You are a true cyber mentor to many!
Beautiful work Sir!
Steve
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IN GOD WE TRUST
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Thank you guys. I have the knife finished and will have it photographed soon. Lin
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wonderful tutorial, Lin. Your careful attention to detail and high standards are reflected in this as well as your knives.
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thank you for the info I went out and made a jig
I only made two knife so far bout with helle blads and these will help with the next one
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Ok, Chuck got the picture done and here is the finished knife. Thanks for watching and letting me do this. Lin
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3387/3342267633_04fc426e9e.jpg)
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THAT IS ONE FINE LOOKING KNIFE LIN,
DO YOU HAVE YOUR OWN WEB SITE?, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE ALL YOUR WORK, MAYBE ONE DAY YOU WOULD LET ME COME UP TO SEE HOW YOU MAKE YOU KNIVES, I'M ONLY 4 1/2 HR. AWAY,
THANKS AGAIN
DANA
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Dana, click on his name and go to his profile.
You make it look easy, Lin.
Beautiful hunter.
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thanks karl
just like you,(i looked up your website to karl) lin has some amazing knives, both of you guy are great, keep all the photos and advise coming to all of us
thanks dana
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WOW, that knife is absolutely beautiful!
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Thanks Lin! What a beauty!
Eric
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Very nice, Lin! Thanks for your time and unselfish sharing.
Dan
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Can we get this one "pinned" to the top???? Please???
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I agree Ray, Then it won't take me so long to find when I have a question and that's quite often!!!! Kevin
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:notworthy:
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Wow... :)
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Lin,
Your long finger guard on this knife and those shown on your web site are an outstanding safety feature that is undervalued these days. Back in the 60s while on my third caribou of the day I gave myself a nasty cut due to the tiny guard and tired hands. I'm sell off some knives so I can order one of your knives to show the kids how art and craftsmanship can come together to create beauty and value.
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WHOWE cant wait till i get to make a knife like that.
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hi Lin, as always clean exceptional work, thats meant to be used.
Knives that a crotchety, reclusive, anti-social knifemaker can even appreciate.
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Lin you are the master.
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Lin, I have a high speed hookup now and can get the pics that everyone has been seeing for awhile.
Just wanted to add my thanks a bit late for all your time on this one.
Thanks a bunch for showing this tutorial. RS
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Your welcome. Let me know if I can help. Lin
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Amazing work and great tutorial, thanks.
Are there any artists that give more freely of their secrets and such than bladesmiths/knife makers?
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Thanks for taking the time to write this tutorial.
The knife is beautiful!
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Lin, Nice job, liquid alluminium works to. You must not heat treat the tang or do you draw it back? Good Hunting Knifemaker
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knifemaker,
Liquid aluminum works for what? You probably mean where the guard attaches to the blade to seal it. I have not used that product yet. If you have any info on it, I'd be interested in seeing it. You're right, I dont harden the tang, or else I draw it back before I put the handle on. Thanks, Lin
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Nice work!
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Now THAT is One Beautiful Knife my Friend!! :thumbsup: I can Only Asspire to Become 1/2 as good as Y'all!! :rolleyes:
Question: Is Liquid Aluminum akin to J-B Weld?? Please Pardon My Ignorance, as this is a Brandly New Interest of Mine, so I am a Pea-Green Rookie!! :dunno:
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Thanks, alot of good info that I can use. Awsome knife.
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Thanks for the time an sharing of your skills.
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Thank you so much for posting this! Im interested in getting into making my own knives, and my buddy wants to start making bows. So its really wonderful that things like this are posted to help us guys start out! Thank you!
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What a piece of craftsmanship!!!
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Great tutorial, Lin and a beautiful, functional knife. Love that ironwood too.
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Great thread! Loved to be able to follow along. The finished product is amazing.
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Grat work,Beautifull knife!
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Thank you gentlemen.
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Lin, I always love seeing your in progress post. Learn something every time.