Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: buddha on December 30, 2006, 04:42:00 PM
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Want to switch to Trad hunting from compound. It sounds fun, relaxing. Not without work or practice,just simple. I have been reading G. Freds books on trad shooting and find myself not to sure on this Trad thing. I realize that everthing takes practice to get good at. G Fred's books make it seem like that if you have a job and family that there is now way one can become good at hunting Trad. I am confused on gettin a trad bow and givin it a try. I want to hunt humanely, quick kills. I dont know if i will have enough time to practice. Thanks for lettin me babble. Need some wisdom from the site.
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buddha..I think most of us on this site have jobs and families and we seem to do alright. Pick up a used recurve bow and fling some. You'll know if it's for you in short order.
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If you haven't got the time, how did you get good with the compound?
If you're a reasonabe shot with the wheels you'll have decent form & that's half the battle! Practice when you can & enjoy it.
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Since you live in Mich you might head to the traditional rendezvous in Kalamazoo the usually takes place in January at the fair grounds. You will be able to shoot lots of bows, talk to lots of great guys/gals and perhaps you will be able to answer the call to traditional bow hunting.
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You won't know, if you don't give it a try :bigsmyl:
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buddha...Don't sell yourself short just yet!...G.Freds book is a good one but I think you should read some other ones also...
"Instinctive Archery Insights".....Jay Kidwell,Ph.D
"The Traditional Way"......Fred Anderson
"Timeless Bowhunting ~ the Art, the Science, the Spirit"......Roy S. Marlow
Find yourself a "good teacher" of trad archery...Understand that some people could be great shots but are unable to coach a newbee...
Good Luck and Welcome Aboard! .....mike.....
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I work full time, go to school full time, am as good as maried, paint part time, and still find time to shoot and hunt, am I any good, no, but man is it fun. I do live in a place were I can shoot in my back yard, I have a 3d range about 2 blocks away from my house and can be in my stand in 20min after work, all that realy helps.
If it for you you will know, and you will make time for it.
Good luck what ever way you go
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Why the pressure to hunt? If you are worried about accuracy and its impact on game animals, as we all are, then just use the simple bows for fun and targets. If it gets under your skin and takes root, then you may just put down the compound for good. I for one, won't think the less of you if you don't, though, and continue to use the compound to make meat.
The trad shoots are a blast! At least treat yourself to some summer fun. :thumbsup:
Killdeer
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I think some folks put too much into shooting a trad bow. Have you ever watched a little kid shoot a bow. It is totally instinctive. Kids are lucky because they don't think about what they are doing, they just do it...and have fun with it.
If you can go to Kalamazoo or any other trad gathering or trade show, do so. Shoot as many bows as you can and talk to as many folks as you can. Try to find yourself an inexpensive bow and start shooting. Learn the basics and work on your form and before you know it you'll be shooting like a champ.
I usually try to shoot every day. When I get home from work, I change my cloths, pick up my bow and quiver and go out and shoot...even if it's only a few arrows. I keep my bows and quiver in plane site so I remember to shoot. If it's stuck in a closet or out of site it's easy to forget to shoot. Have fun and enjoy!!! Pat
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My freinds and I all have jobs and families, and we all shoot and hunt trad.
Go for it, and like Killdeer said use your compound if you don't feel confident.
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definatly go for it. when i started, i got a bow in the late summer and felt comfortable enought to hunt that fall. i knew i had limitations, but i was happy to get that far having never really shot a bow. no one taught me form, i just read a little bit on the internet and figured it out on my own. i had a full time job and really only shot maybe an hour a night, if that.
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Groundstalker is right, don't lock yourself into one shooting style until you've tried several ways to shoot. Some of the "most famous" methods can lead you down the wrong path.
Try this---take the sights off your compound and shoot it for a few weeks, THEN pick up a traditional bow and shoot it EXACTLY the same way. You''ll be amazed at how well you shoot. The dirty little secret is that most snap shooters are generally medicocre shots at best. A very few, like G. Fred, are great at it. Most people shoot much better when they draw, AIM momentarily, and then shoot.
If you can shoot well with your compound at 15 yards without sights, you'll do equally well with a longbow or recurve. While you are learning to shoot traditional bows, remember that longer bows are more accurate until you get really good. Actually, they are probably more accurate even then.
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Buddha, Get yourself a good used bow and give it a try. Then if you find its not for you, you can sell the bow. That way all you'll be out is a little time.
I've been shooting traditional for 3 months now and practice 10 minutes here and there when I have time. With that I have already improved greatly. So jump in and give it a shot.
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If you enjoy shooting a bow enough to consider a trad bow you *must* give it a try ! You may still use the compound for hunting....no one cares. That's fine and good too !
Point being once you dive in and accept the challenge of trad shooting, I don't think you'll give up so easy. ;)
I've found my best tune-up tool/practice method is shooting at a target bag in the garage a couple nights a week.....at 15 feet. I work a more than full-time job, have two young children and a supportive wife. Your mileage may vary, but I sure enjoy shooting trad bows. The hunting is just icing on the cake really.
You have nothing to lose. Shooting a recurve without sights will make you a better compound shooter anyway. Trust me on that.
Go for it ! :thumbsup:
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I teach language arts (lots of papers to check), I am the middle school athletic director (lots of after school activities), I am taking graduate classes online (lots of work!), I shoot my bow in my driveway for a few minutes a day (most days), and I took my first deer with my longbow this fall. Practice when you can. I enjoy the practice as much as hunting...well, almost. It is a great tension reliever.
Find a good used bow, preferably of under 50 pounds (remember, there is no let-off) and give it a try. You won't be sorry.
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Don't listen to or read a word Asbel says, he will screw you up. The guy thinks his word is the know all end all of stickbow shooting. As some mentioned there are other, better authors/experts out there if you feel the need to read.
Get a decent used low poundage bow and figure out your own style. If your planning on shooting true instinctive, both eyes open concentrating on your target only don't worry about eye dominance, it don't matter. If your a right handed shooter now shoot a right handed bow.
Speaking for myself I'm a snap shooter and I do well. Can't hit a thing if I intentionally aim, hold for a second then release. It just don't work for me. Also don't think you need to pratice all the time. I actually shoot better if I only pratice one to two times a week for a half hour or so, and not every week of the year either. During the Spring and Summer months I may touch the bow maybe once a month opting to be with my daughter on a reservior kayaking, riding one of my motorcycles or target shooting with my MZ's instead.
Just remember it doesn't have to be all about the bow if your shooting a stickbow, there is more to life. Enjoy it all.
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The best way I have found to explain it is by using a baseball analogy.
The first time you went out and threw a baseball, the ball travelled a few feet and fell to the ground, next time the ball went a little farther and straighter. I don't know much about baseball, but I've never seen one with sights attached :) Most folks can still go out and play pitch and catch, even if they haven't thrown a ball in awhile. Like riding a bicycle it comes back to them very quickly.
The same is true with shooting recurve and longbows. The first few times will not be pretty, but soon your brain (subconcious) will start to calculate trajectory,speed, ect... and you'll begin to hit the target.
It's easy to over think the whole thing, just have fun :) :) :)
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"G Fred's books make it seem like that if you have a job and family that there is now way one can become good at hunting Trad."
Huh? How do you get that? Most everyone on here has a job, family, tons of obligations.
Traditional archery is no different than golf, or any other individual skill sport. Work at it a little, and if it continues to appeal to you, you will do better. I think some folks confuse the choice of traditional archery with an equipment change/purchase. It's not that simple. It's a mindset change. If you don't feel it, don't feel obligated to do it.
Mike C - why the harsh words about Fred Asbell? He is one of the true gentlemen of our sport. Just because his style is different than yours, no need to bash him. He DOES NOT think his advice is the "end all" as you put it. I don't shoot anything like Fred at all, but I learn something everytime I re-read one of his books.
When giving advice, you would do better by just giving the advice, rather than bash someone else.
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I taught myself to shoot by reading G. Fred's books. I don't shoot like Fred either but his books helped me tremendously. His aren't the only books to read either. Borrow/Steal/Buy as many as you can. Ferguson, Tidwell. There's a ton of stuff out there. Look at as much as you can and experiment. What doesn't work for others may work for you and you'll hitting where you want.
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Hey Buddha...Try to follow what I'm pointing out...please...
ALL trad gear users use the same BASIC technique:
Hold the bow...Draw...Shoot...Simple...
After learning to keep your arrow from falling off the rest when drawing... :rolleyes: ... it becomes an "individual kinda thing"...Get It?
You can't read only ONE book cause that authors style may not work for you...Then all the books won't help you learn if you don't shoot and put into practice what was written...That's why I mentioned those three books...
Seems like alot to learn. Can't do it all at once. Yea it's gonna be fun and cool and great for hunting etc...Get out to a trad shoot and I bet some shooters will trip over themselves to help you out! Trad people are like that.
Dig This...Eight years ago I bought G.Fred Asbells video and in viewing it heard G.Fred say..."Shooting a bow is one of the joys of life for me. Maybe it would be the same for you someday."...First I thought this guy had a screw loose someplace...But he was RIGHT! I may not agree with his shooting style but I LOVE TRADITIONAL ARCHERY! And I'll bet you will too... :) ...
>>-----> mike <-----<<
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Buddha, I hear so many people say they would love to start shooting trad bows, but dont have the "time" needed to practice. That is the easiest thing to overcome. Haveing a yard you can shoot in is a plus. I lot of times I may not have "time" fora practice session, as the lawn needs mowing ,the trash has to go out to the road, etc. If I'm in an out of the house, or working in the yard, I just lean my bow by the door with 3 arrows and my glove. On my way from point A to Point B, I shoot 1 or 2 shots. Then a little while later, I have to get the gas can out of the shed, I shoot a couple more.
I also have a bag target in the basement. I go down to dump some corn in the stove, I shoot a couple shots. Only about 5-6 yards, but perfect for form practice. When I lived in a small house with no basement, I kept the bag in the breezeway and shot from the kitchen or living room. ( yes, I was single at the time LOL).
You dont need to schedule long practice sessions.
Where in Mich are you? Michigan has lots of MBH affiliate clubs that host monthly 3D shoots, and indoor winter leagues.
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If you already shoot a bow it should not take long to pick it up.A bow is just a bow and they work alike.Use the same form with the new bow as you do now and go shoot it.Start with a lot lighter weight and it will makes things easier and quicker.The biggest problem people have when making the switch is thinking they have to do things different.You don't. jmo
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I love GFred the story teller, his shooting methods just aint for me...that swing draw method will get ya busted everytime...ATTITUDE ADJUSTMENT...may be in order...dont whip yourself before ya start. Find some guys, group or club , different from whom you hang with now...make sure youre bow and arrows are matched...and if ya really want to learn how to shoot , sign up for one of Rick Welch shooting clinic's, when ur serious...trad aint for everybody...ask yourself the question what does trad mean to you , what do I want...not saying this is you, but usually when I here this...some guys are over bowed, form needs help, they develope TP of some sort, ...and they just give up ...
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What weight did you guys start at? Thanks for all the replys so far.
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something you can hold...for 10 seconds, at anchor...develope good form...then move up..42 pounds...would work...I dont know ya..so...try that..good luck... :)
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Buddha, what weight compound do you shoot?
Without knowing anything about you, assuming you are an adult mae of average strength, I would say 45 to 50 pounds.
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I shoot a 60# compound. A 1999 Hoyt Aspen. 41yrs old male. Wood bow or Metal bow to start with? I remember reading here in another thread that the metal bows are easier to tune? Thanks again for all the feedback, this is very helpful.
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I don't know about metal bows being easier to tune...could be.
Find yourself a 45# - 50# recurve, you will do fine, and can use it to hunt with eventually. Where at in Michigan are you? I am in Canton, would be glad to give you a hand.
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Buddha,
There were many reasons for my decision to switch from shooting a compound to shooting Traditional equipment. So... I just simply grabbed the first Recurve I could (an old "Bear",) and started shooting. (Not too mention spending a lot of time on this, as well as several other Traditional Archery forums.)
I was shooting a 70# compound at the time... and the 52# Bear "Tigercat" seemed almost too much to pull... but it was the only recurve I had... and so I went with it. (I'm now very comfortable pulling 53# )
Within about 1 month... I began to realize that Traditional equipment is much more versatile than a compound! I found that it was very easy for me to shoot MORE, simply because I could do more with the Recurve.
Now, think about it... There is a "Complex shot sequence" when shooting a compound. You have one draw length... you're gonna pull that bow back to "The Wall" and fire it out there at speeds close to 300 fps. The fact of the matter is that you better be aiming at some sort of established target (like bails) or you will be destroying arrows left and right.
With my Recurve... the shot sequence isn't as complex... Yes... It is slower... but it is still JUST as deadly! I can basically shoot at ANYTHING!!! (except rocks! :p ) I can snap shoot... lay on my belly and shoot, I can shoot at aerial targets. And the tips... heck!... the assortment of tips and broadheads are virtually ENDLESS!
I SHOOT MORE, BECAUSE I CAN DO MORE!!!!!
I work for the Railroad and am on call 24/7. (In fact... I just got called to work while writing this. :mad: ) I also have a family, bills, taxes, exorbitant insurance rates... Ya know... "The American Dream"... and finding time to shoot "IS NOT" a problem.
I have never read any of the books mentioned on this forum... and to be honest... most of my training has been from what I learned here on this forum... and over the phone with a very good friend who lives in Arkansas. (I live in Oregon.) And... in truth... (1) one year ago.. I would have never DREAMED that I would be as good with a recurve as I am today. :saywhat: :thumbsup:
Donnie
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Thanks for all the help everybody! Have a great New year!
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Originally posted by Roger Norris:
Mike C - why the harsh words about Fred Asbell? He is one of the true gentlemen of our sport. Just because his style is different than yours, no need to bash him. He DOES NOT think his advice is the "end all" as you put it. I don't shoot anything like Fred at all, but I learn something everytime I re-read one of his books.
When giving advice, you would do better by just giving the advice, rather than bash someone else.
Roger...I meet the man and heard him speak. Seemed to me like he was a bit of an elitiest. I gave an opinion, not a bash. If I was bashing the man I would have choosen different words. I also believe his article about eye dominance was way off and incorrect, but the way he wrote it left nothing to be discussed, he was right and that was it. That is the way I read it.
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"Good" Is in the eye of the beholder.....
I do not want to sound disrespectful or offensive so let me oppoligize first ;)
If you would like to hunt with traditional equipment GREAT!!!!! Welcome to the Gang!!!!!
However, most new traditional shooters switching over from compounds want the "best of both worlds" They want to use traditional equipment,BUT they don't want to give up thier 2" groups and thier 40-50 yard max range.
Shooting a tradtional bow is a commitment to accepting not your "limitations" but your "abilities". If you are only able to shoot accuratly at 10 yards,then you accept 10 yards as your limit,and you go from there. I think most folks here will agree that it is pretty easy to get yourself hitting a paper plate at 10 yards.(I have taught many new shooters to hit a plate at 10 yards in an hour or two) When you can consistantly hit at 10 yards,move back 1 yard each new shooting session.If you start missing the plate,then step UP 1 yard.With everyday practice you should be back to 20 yards in a week or two. It's that easy!!!!!
NOW.....IMHO Compound bows are just HEAVY,HIGHLY OVERPRICED PIECES OF JUNK,That are designed to be obsolete in 2 years so that you have to spend a weeks hard earned paycheck (or more) to buy a new one.
If you do decide your ready to make the switch.....Throw that compound in the dump where it belongs,and get yourself a stickbow!!!!! :thumbsup:
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MikeC - hearing the man speak and meeting him does not justify your harsh critisism. Now you have called him an elitist. Sounds like bashing to me.
I have spent quite a bit of time with Fred...campfires at different shoots, planning the Compton Rendevous, a week at ShrewHaven with Ron and the boys...he is my friend, and as long as you are going to insult him, I'm going to push back. So why don't you just cut it out. You can disagree with someone without being so personally critical.
Folks that know me will attest that may be the most polite paragraph I ever typed in a cyber-converstaion such as this.
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Roger...I have a right to my opinion and expressing it, call it what you like.
I'm not going to argue with you.
Have a great new year!
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Get one and shoot 12 arrows a day off of your deck while you have something on the grill.Your wife will love for cooking and you will be surprised how good you can get in a short time.
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Originally posted by Ironman:
Get one and shoot 12 arrows a day off of your deck while you have something on the grill.Your wife will love for cooking and you will be surprised how good you can get in a short time.
A fine idea!
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That is great advice. I have shot a bunch of arrows while manning the grill!
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I have other questions now, should i post the here or start new topics?
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Post them here...
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From reading it apears that heavy is better in broadheads, 150 Wenzel seems to be a favorite. Is this a personal choice or is it better for Trad?
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I'd like to think that a "heavy broadhead arrow" is the way to go for trad gear hunting...Eight to Ten grains per pound of draw weight...Most broadheads come in 125gr. weight...Seems to be a standard of the industry...The Woodsman you mentioned is a 150gr. screw in that I've been thinking of using for deer hunting next season...Seem to need ALOT of weight up front to stabilize some carbon arrows...
Boy...I'm outa breath...my 2 cents...mike... ;) ...
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I want to start with carbon arrows, i shoot them with my compound. They take a lot of abuse and still shoot well. I'm petty sure i will be throwing arrows all over the place when I start. So the next thing is which carbon arrows? I know there are a lot of choices out there, anyones out there perferd by you guys?
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Buddha, I use beman ICS hunters, with about 200 grains up front...the cool thing is they shoot from both my short fifty pounder, and my longer 57 pounder, carbons are great, good luck buddy and have FUN!
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Originally posted by project mayhem:
Buddha, I use beman ICS hunters, with about 200 grains up front...the cool thing is they shoot from both my short fifty pounder, and my longer 57 pounder, carbons are great, good luck buddy and have FUN!
How do you get 200 grains up front? A 200 field point and broad head? Wow! much to learn!
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buddha - I use carbons. Here is my set-up for a 57# Super Shrew: Carbonwood or Carbon Vapor 3000's, cut at 29", with a 130 grain head (field point or Magnus 2 blade). Glue a steel insert (110 grain) into the standard glue on head to create a 240 grain head for the up front wieght. For whatever reason, carbons seem to fly best with lots of wieght up front. Experiement with the carbons you have now and see if they fly right.
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Thanks for all the feedback Roger! I live about 15 miles from the Super Shrew man Ron! Here is a ?? for ya, how/when will I know its the arrows/weight and not me shootin straight? Should i get 2 differnt spine of arrows?
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Thats a great question...your release can fool you sometimes. It helps to have a shooting partner, someone who can shoot your bow, watch you shoot it. It's tough in the beginning, because a poor release can make you think your arrows are wobbling in flight.
Shoot 3 arrows and look at how they stick in the target (a bag is no good for this, use a hard foam target)Look for the shafts to be at consistent angles.
It also helps to go to a proshop where they understand traditional arrows and spine. Let them help you with a set of arrows that are right for your bow. You can experiment from there.
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Thanks for all the feedback! Ive been out of state working, left on the 2nd got back yesterday. Sorry about the delayed thanks!
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Well Buddha...What's the scoop?...Are you gonna jump in to trad hunting yet?...
Dig this...Eight years ago I read a story in one of the hunting magazines that got me interested in trad bows...(I had compound bow trigger time for years)...Said, if you can keep your shots on target at five yards...Go Hunting!...Just limit your shooting range to five yards...Go For It!
>>-----> mike <-----<<
PS...I NEVER LOOKED BACK!!!
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buddha,
Don’t do it. Just say no. Get an intervention. This stuff is like crack and hard to put down. I too was a compound shooter until this last Christmas when my *@$#% son gave me a recurve. Now it’s all I want to shoot. Seriously though, it is a blast. You don’t have to shoot 100 arrows a day or spend hours at a range. I try to shoot at least every other day for about 30 minutes and am fairly consitant at 15yds if I don't loose my concentration. I am working up to 20yds. I get home from work and shoot a little, it doesn't eat up all that much time.
There are some film clips on this site that show good form. Use that and get with someone who shoots to watch you, then shoot and have fun. That’s what its all about. No one person has all the answers and like it has been said, “there is more than one way to do it” Don’t tell anyone but some on this site actually shoot carbon arrow and not cedar ones they hand carved. Get a used bow, some arrows, arm guard, glove/tab and start shooting.
Remember, its about having fun, not beating ourselves up or making the enjoyable something miserable.
Mark
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One small suggestion. Only concentrate on shooting the ARROW at the target. Most people put too much emphasis on the bow, but it is the arrow that does the work at a target or game. Whichever style you choose, MAKE that arrow go into the target.
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I started Traditional again about three months back after a couple decades of compound bows. I practiced (and continue to practice) some every day. It took about 4 weeks before I felt I could ethically take a 20 yard shot at a deer. Two weeks later I bumped off my first Traditional kill, a doe at 21 yards (see my avitar).
If it's remotely comfortable out, I stump shoot a bit nearly every day. I have a 60 yard outdoor range but if it's too cold or windy to shoot outside I move to a 40 foot setup in my barn or 25 feet in my basement. I feel it's crucial to shoot a bit every day to get the muscles in condition and keep them that way.
When I'm shooting on the close setups accuracy really isn't a challenge, so I concentrate on form.
Rik made a valid point. A few days ago, I stripped all the gadgets off one of my compounds but the sling & string silencers. I put on a Center Rest Flipper that has been in my tackle box since God knows when, turned it down to 53-54lbs to match my recurves, and did a quick tune with the same 520 grain CX Terminator Hunters I'm shooting from my recurves. It was quite simple to get perfect arrow flight shooting with fingers and the flipper rest.
I was amazed at how well the Traditional style I developed with my recurves translated to the barebow compound. I was downright deadly. Bear in mind this is a 34" compound that is in no way designed to be shot with fingers. Also bear in mind the compound is no where near as fluid to shoot as a Trad bow.
Just FYI, my style is to hold about 4-5 seconds at full draw with lots of back tension while trying to burn a hole through my chosen spot with my eyes. I release when it feels right. I hold my bow vertical with no cant. I'm about as far from the G. Fred/Fred Bear school of snap shooting as a guy can get...