Trad Gang
Main Boards => Hunting Knives and Crafters => Topic started by: kbaknife on January 24, 2015, 09:24:00 AM
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I'll try to post up some of the knives I'll be taking along to Little Rock. And if any one else wants to contribute to this thread - that's fine by me.
This one is a San Mai Hunter made of 1095/420SS and Stabilized Walnut Burl.
The bottom pictures are how the billet started.
The core is 3/8" 1095 and the laminates are 1/4" 420 stainless steel. 2 1/2" long.
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/kbaknife/Trad%20Gang/CWg-l-2_zpsrhqvg2rq.jpg) (http://s28.photobucket.com/user/kbaknife/media/Trad%20Gang/CWg-l-2_zpsrhqvg2rq.jpg.html)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/kbaknife/Trad%20Gang/CWg-ma-2_zpsw56c2iy3.jpg) (http://s28.photobucket.com/user/kbaknife/media/Trad%20Gang/CWg-ma-2_zpsw56c2iy3.jpg.html)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/kbaknife/Trad%20Gang/SM1b-2_zpswxcd4bux.jpg) (http://s28.photobucket.com/user/kbaknife/media/Trad%20Gang/SM1b-2_zpswxcd4bux.jpg.html)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/kbaknife/Trad%20Gang/SM1c-2_zpspj7qwum5.jpg) (http://s28.photobucket.com/user/kbaknife/media/Trad%20Gang/SM1c-2_zpspj7qwum5.jpg.html)
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Clean and classy. Nice work Karl.
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Keep em coming Karl!
:campfire:
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Looking good buddy, hope I can get something done in time... ;)
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Here is a rather large Bowie which is one of a "brother-sister" set. This is for a Marine home on leave and it gets a matching hunter for his sister.
They're actually driving from Ohio to Little Rock to pick up the set.
It's a San Mai Bowie and will get a stainless guard and some stabilized Franquette Walnut for a handle.
The first shows the original San Mai bar right as I forged it down from a billet of 3/8" 1095 and 2 pieces of 1/4" 420 SS. The original was about 5 inches long and then drawn out to what you see here.
Then a drawing to see how she might look.
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/kbaknife/Trad%20Gang/TS1-c-2_zps5vc7crl8.jpg) (http://s28.photobucket.com/user/kbaknife/media/Trad%20Gang/TS1-c-2_zps5vc7crl8.jpg.html)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/kbaknife/Trad%20Gang/TS1-d-2_zpsuogrhgf0.jpg) (http://s28.photobucket.com/user/kbaknife/media/Trad%20Gang/TS1-d-2_zpsuogrhgf0.jpg.html)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/kbaknife/Trad%20Gang/TS1-e-2_zpsyhupv2pl.jpg) (http://s28.photobucket.com/user/kbaknife/media/Trad%20Gang/TS1-e-2_zpsyhupv2pl.jpg.html)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/kbaknife/Trad%20Gang/TS1-f-2_zpsbgcdxakg.jpg) (http://s28.photobucket.com/user/kbaknife/media/Trad%20Gang/TS1-f-2_zpsbgcdxakg.jpg.html)
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Here are pics right after it was hardened, tempered, and then a little clean-up grind:
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/kbaknife/Trad%20Gang/TS1-g-2_zpsh4zmfuvd.jpg) (http://s28.photobucket.com/user/kbaknife/media/Trad%20Gang/TS1-g-2_zpsh4zmfuvd.jpg.html)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/kbaknife/Trad%20Gang/TS1-j-2_zpsyxrfkw7n.jpg) (http://s28.photobucket.com/user/kbaknife/media/Trad%20Gang/TS1-j-2_zpsyxrfkw7n.jpg.html)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/kbaknife/Trad%20Gang/TS1-k-2_zpsxmozjvwq.jpg) (http://s28.photobucket.com/user/kbaknife/media/Trad%20Gang/TS1-k-2_zpsxmozjvwq.jpg.html)
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Here is how this one turned out:
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/kbaknife/Trad%20Gang/TS5a-2_zps0olqtwqn.jpg) (http://s28.photobucket.com/user/kbaknife/media/Trad%20Gang/TS5a-2_zps0olqtwqn.jpg.html)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/kbaknife/Trad%20Gang/TS5b-2_zpsa8u5ltd8.jpg) (http://s28.photobucket.com/user/kbaknife/media/Trad%20Gang/TS5b-2_zpsa8u5ltd8.jpg.html)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/kbaknife/Trad%20Gang/TS5c-2_zpsyzktxfxk.jpg) (http://s28.photobucket.com/user/kbaknife/media/Trad%20Gang/TS5c-2_zpsyzktxfxk.jpg.html)
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Another winner buddy. :thumbsup:
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Looks like an effective chopper as well as a sticker. :thumbsup:
Seeing that little floating remnant of the stainless cladding at the tip makes me wonder if you could do more of that the full length of the edge. If you did some surface manipulation and then forged it flat? I know next to nothing about working with this type of san mai, so maybe it'd be a recipe for disaster?
Darcy :campfire:
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Where and when is this Little Rock event? Is it open to the public?
I'm in West Tennessee, and would really like to attend.
Murray
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Here is a link to the show - you'd better make it!! There will be a handful of us there.
http://arkansasknifemakers.com/arkansas-custom-knife-show.html
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Originally posted by D.Ellis:
Looks like an effective chopper as well as a sticker. :thumbsup:
Seeing that little floating remnant of the stainless cladding at the tip makes me wonder if you could do more of that the full length of the edge. If you did some surface manipulation and then forged it flat? I know next to nothing about working with this type of san mai, so maybe it'd be a recipe for disaster?
Darcy :campfire:
That's a good observation, and I will return to this later this evening and explain how I make my San Mai and my philosophy behind it.
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Alright - in fact, that "floating remnant" is simply what is left of the remaining character - just like the rest of the stainless that you see - after the blade is ground.
Here's how I do it, and a bit of my San Mai philosophy:
Making Stainless/Simple Carbon San Mai is a lot like trying to glue a Gummy Bear to an ice cube.
They're both happy by themselves, and would rather not be connected.
In fact, every possible variable is against that happening.
I've seen some guys start with their three components so close to their final thickness/dimension that once they get their initial weld, they do very little more forging.
I am of the opposite inclination - I want my San Mai billet to remain at welding heat as long as possible and spend as much time under the press and power hammer as I can get it to do so.
So, I start with a 3/8" thick 1095 core and .280" - well over a 1/4" - stainless jacket on each side.
When getting my initial weld - which I do twice and which must be in an oxygen free atmosphere - I soak for nearly 1/2 hour. After the weld, I want as much carbon and alloy migration as feasible. I want those components to become ONE!
And they do.
I've tried everything I can possibly do to destroy one of these blades and I can't get them to fail.
I draw out my billet almost to my final thickness incrementally by about .020" per reduction with flat dies in my press.
On the next to last pass I reduce the steel with round drawing dies. Those create those undulations you see along the bottom edge.
Often I have referred to this San Mai as a really good demonstration of what is happening inside our steel when we use drawing dies.
Them, when I flat grind it, we get to see the highs and lows of the drawing dies.
That remnant you refer to out there at the end is simply where the 420 SS was pushed into the 1095 with the drawing die. When I did the flat grind and got thinner along the distal taper, I sheared off the spot between the draw bites that was more 1095 than 420.
So, when some guys make their San Mai and start at a dimension that is already thin and near their final thickness, they don't have the time/mass to do drawing functions, so they saw-cut into the edge a lot like when making ladder Damascus.
There are things I could do with a ball peen hammer to put in more activity along the line.
Truth is, I just don't see any other San Mai out there quite like mine, so as long as it remains recognizable as mine, I think I'll just leave it like it is.
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I appreciate you posting that explanation Karl. It was very understandable.
It also gives insight into not only how a knife maker who is in it as a livelihood thinks but also how one's equipment play a part in the recognizable results of that maker's work.
For anyone reading your posts, a lot can be learned. Testing to destruction for instance. Who but someone who insists on making the absolute best hand made product would even consider that?
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Thanks Karl........lots of info there, and good insight into your knife making philosophy...... It ain't broke and don't need fixed that's for sure! :thumbsup:
I'm just a sick individual who's never content to do the same thing too many times in a row......that, and a blade junkie with too much enthusiasm maybe :D
While on the topic. Have you done a dagger with this steel before.......cause that'd be AWESOME!
Darcy :campfire:
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Originally posted by D.Ellis:
While on the topic. Have you done a dagger with this steel before.......cause that'd be AWESOME!
Darcy :campfire:
No - not yet - but a stainless San Mai over Damascus dagger might be cool.
And there is one I need to make. ;)
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Nice Job!!!!! I have been looking at your Gunflint Bowie style and envisioning a San Mai blade. It is fantastic. Now I just need to true northwoods handle material. You and traded some e-mails a while back on this subject. Once again Nice Job Karl. :thumbsup:
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Originally posted by Fallguy:
Now I just need to true northwoods handle material. You and traded some e-mails a while back on this subject. :thumbsup:
Some good northern Minnesota maple burl or black ash burl. :thumbsup:
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"which I do twice and which must be in an oxygen free atmosphere"
How does one achieve this oxygen free atmosphere?
I have read about stainless to carbon san mai using a tig welded box with a paper towel and WD40 inside to deplete oxygen but it seems daunting. Is this something you are doing?
The smith would weld the whole thing together in a press and then grind the box away leaving a billet.
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Black Ash burl sounds like a killer package. I will have to get my name on your list.
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Originally posted by Bobby Urban:
......to deplete oxygen but it seems daunting.
Everything about this is daunting! :scared:
I use a combination of welding and stainless steel heat treating foil.
I know some guys that put their billet of San Mai in a short section of tail pipe. Squish the ends shut and weld them.
Then cut the ends off after the press weld.
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As Lin mentioned, testing to destruction is really the only way to go. I believe that's part of the problem with American made products (all really) these days. Nobody is willing to take it to the complete limit. Especially for a tool that's designed to save your life potentially.
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There're a few willing to test to the extreme.......so "nobody" might be stretching that too far.
Many, if not most of the ABS guys and a few of the "fringe element" take performance VERY serious. :readit:
Looking forward to seeing your "big 5" Karl. :thumbsup:
Darcy :campfire:
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The beauty of wrought iron - from 1903.
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/kbaknife/Trad%20Gang/MW1a-2_zpsnahgikrm.jpg) (http://s28.photobucket.com/user/kbaknife/media/Trad%20Gang/MW1a-2_zpsnahgikrm.jpg.html)
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^^^^ Soooooo cool.... I have a "thing" with how etched wrought looks. And you do it really well, Karl :) . Have you ever done wrought/high carbon San Mai? I've seen some really nice looking blades with that combo. But as with most things, that combo seems to also have some inherent difficulties, including the differing expansion/contraction rates. I saw a post once where there was a long shearing crack after the quench....
Interesting to hear your approach including heat treat foil, Karl. I've heard/read of guys doing it in a can as already described. I also watched a demo where the stainless sides were mig welded to a carbon core, all the way around. Then after about a 30 minute soak in the forge, it was put in the press. On that one, I don't believe there was any pin hole, wd-40, or combustible material inside.
Karl, do you find the stainless sides harden at all during the cycles? Do you do any particular annealing process after forging, other than the "typical" type that most do after forging carbon steel?
Thanks for sharing your knives and processes. I always enjoy seeing what you're up to.
:campfire:
Jeremy
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Jeremy, the differences in hardening and expansion are basically the same for wrought as stainless - neither will harden.
I've had my stainless san mai rip my core lengthwise - same thing.
Just need to work out these issues up front.
Yes - I need to do a sub-critical anneal in the oven so as to be able to cut and even thread the tang.
The austenizing temps of the core will not harden the stainless, but the forging temps will!!
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Here are a couple pictures of a few completed knives.
I'll be taking 7 but only have one for sale. The others are all being picked up by their new owners.
The yellow-ish Bowie has a handle of 100+ year old original production Bakelite.
The first one is the one with the wrought iron guard I showcased earlier.
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/kbaknife/Trad%20Gang/MWFa-2_zpsga8pqxbw.jpg) (http://s28.photobucket.com/user/kbaknife/media/Trad%20Gang/MWFa-2_zpsga8pqxbw.jpg.html)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/kbaknife/Trad%20Gang/KFa-2_zpswsibr5wv.jpg) (http://s28.photobucket.com/user/kbaknife/media/Trad%20Gang/KFa-2_zpswsibr5wv.jpg.html)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c247/kbaknife/Trad%20Gang/LFBa-2_zpsco1okyvp.jpg) (http://s28.photobucket.com/user/kbaknife/media/Trad%20Gang/LFBa-2_zpsco1okyvp.jpg.html)
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:thumbsup: :thumbsup: See ya in a couple days buddy.
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It seems that every time I read a post from you I learn something new and I gain even more respect for the amazing work you do.
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Thanks for the reply, Karl. Hope you and the others have a safe trip.
Jeremy
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That's quite a trio of pointy camp knives Karl. :D :thumbsup: The wrought iron is awesome.
Darcy :campfire: