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Main Boards => The Bowyer's Bench => Topic started by: Joey V. on August 09, 2010, 11:47:00 AM
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Hey all,
I tried Massey epoxy finish (2 part epoxy and Aceton) on a scrap piece of wood and after 4 coats it is hard as nails and soooooo simple to make. This finish is so cheap and easy to use I love it.
The questions I have is:
1. Will it yellow over time?
2. Can I use 5 min epoxy instead of 60 min. and spray it on?
THX All.
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I have never noticed it yellowing. You can use any of the cheap epoxies. You are only adding it as a finish and not trying to hold anything together with it. I usually use the 2ton variety but for no specific reason.
When applying it as a finish make only one pass with the finish and let it cure before adding the next. If you try to go over it as it cures it will screw up the finish. It will last a good while in an air tight container so you only have to mix up a batch that can be used for a few days of finishing instead of mixing it up each time you want to use it.
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THx Pat! Last question, I plan on spraying it on with a touch up air gun. If I use that should I only make one pass too? Why only one pass at a time? The stuff I tried on that scrap wood I applied with a paintbrush at went over it a few times and it turned out ok. DO you think it was dumb luck that time?
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I have used the touchup guns and it orange peeled pretty bad. Someone reported using MEK as the solvent worked better since it's not so volatile as acetone. I never tried it though.
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Hey John, What do you mean by orange peeled? Do you mean it actually had bumps/dimples on it like an orange peel?
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Yes
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What is Massey epoxy finish ???? Never used it ?
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Massey finish is epoxy mixed as directed then thinned with a compatible solvent.
I always used a rag saturated with Massey finish and when I tried to do a second pass it streaked the first. If it works well the way you did it continue on with it. I don't think it will matter.
I rarely use Massey finish for bows or arrows because it was so picky to use. I do use it to saturate cord wrapped handles and that sets the cords well in the glue and makes a very good weather proof handle.
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I spray it and use denatured alcohol to mix it with. I've tried acetone and mek to spray with and acetone doesn't work at all. MEK will kill you. I noticed that alcohol will soften it after it's hardened so I used it on this bow and it works great. Make sure you have degreased your wood before applying or you will get the orange peal mess.
(http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o241/galnmax/bow%20info/Antonios_bow/S10.jpg)
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Is there a tread on how to mix ?
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Do a search for Massey finish on here. There was lots of talk about it a few years ago.
I just mix the epoxy until thoroughly mixed then add enough acetone to make it the consistency I want. The acetone(solvent)is the carrier and when it evaporates the epoxy cures.
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I don't measure the ratio of epoxy anymore. I use a baby food type jar, squirt about 1/4" of 5 minute or two ton epoxy in the jar right out of the twin tubes(no pre mixing)and slop in enough acetone to fill the jar about half way. I stir this mix with a popsicle stick until I can't see anymore strings of epoxy floating around in the acetone.
You can add more acetone to the mix and get a couple of swipes with your rag during application, but like Pat said, one quick swipe is what you have most of the time.
I have found 5 minute epoxy works OK but doesn't store as long as a solution made from two ton epoxy. I can store the two ton mix for a couple weeks tightly capped before it thickens up.
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Eric I never even thought about trying to store it. Thanks for the info I'll try it with the next batch. That would save having to make a new batch with each coat.
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Well thanks everyone for the help! Benbow you are heck of a wood worker let me tell you that is one beutiful riser. Joey V.
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That is a nice riser. Accented with an I-beam. Very strong looking and the finish is nice.
Does anyone know how much more durable if any is this finish than spar urathane? Do you think it compares to say a thunderbird (two part type) or fullerplast finish?
Benbow, are you saying aclohol makes it a softer finish after cured?
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Jason I have used alcohol to degrease everything and when I used it on a riser that I had applied the massey finish on it softened the finish. In fact it is possible to remove the massey finish with alcohol. It's messy but it can be done. Thanks for the complements. My mentor let me use his bandsaw to cut the curves. My bandsaw isn't good enough to do it, plus it is a pain to get everything fitting right. I've started adding the I-beam because I could feel some risers flex in the grip area. Just trying to keep them from breaking.
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If that's the case about alcohol softening this finsish I would venture to say it is not like the two part epoxy finishes like 2-p catalized thunderbird or fulerplast. I don't think those will breakdown with alcohol. Not sure about that though.
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It just means you can't drink and shoot :knothead:
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I've heard MEK called Methyl-ethyl-death before, so I think I'll stay away from that. I just grabbed one of those disposable aerosol sprayers from the hardware store to try this finish. I'll try to remember to post on my findings.
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Once it's cured, it should not soften. I have used Devcon 2 ton most of the time. I haven't tried the fast cure stuff but have heard reports that it doesn't have as favorable results as the long cure.
MEK is no more dangerous than acetone. Both have essentially the same hazards. The "methyl-ethyl-death" is a fun alliteration but MEK is not really an acute hazard in normal concentrations...at least not more so than acetone. Flammability is the greatest hazard and acetone is more flammable than MEK. Still both are to be respected and used safely. Denatured alcohol, if effective, would be a better choice than either.
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I only use Devcon 2 ton epoxy. Mix it 1/3 to 1/2 of the tubes in a "salsa jar" (wide mouthed short jar) fill with acetone to the shoulder at the top, cap the jar and swirl until the epoxy disappears. Wipe on with 2" square pieces of white cotton cloth. ALWAYS use latex or rubber gloves. Acetone is cumulative in your body. 10-15 coats will finish a bow nicely. 5-6 coats is what I use on all of my wood or bamboo arrow shafts. Recoat when the last coat is no longer tacky. Best finish I have ever used when refinishing old glass backed bows or new selfbows. Waterproof and tough.
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"Waterproof and tough" Jay wouldn't have had it any other way.
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I use it on knife handles and have always used an old t-shirt to apply. I am going to try dipping my handles to see what happens
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I dont know what is going on here, maybe someone can help me
I mixed the acetone and epoxy (ace extra time epoxy), dipped my handles and they came out oily. Still oily feeling in the morning? What is going on?
I used this formula 10 years ago with no problems? Back then I believe I was using devcon 2ton 5 minute epoxy, do you think that could be the difference?
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Thank for the good info.
I have a question:
I supose this is a shiny finish, isnt it?
Is there any way to make it flat?
Thanks
Martin
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0000 steel wool
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Nice option to have on the table thanks for sharing all the good info!
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I think I got it now
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Will the Massey finish work directly over oily woods without sealing first?
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I have used it on cocoblo, bocate, osage, bamboo, leather, hickory, cattle horn, and probably others. I always clean with IPA before using the massey finish or any finish as far as that goes.
Which woods are you talking about?
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Mainly cocobolo and wenge.
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give it s good wipe down with IPA and you should be fine. I never worked with wenge but give it e try and see what happens
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give it s good wipe down with IPA and you should be fine. I never worked with wenge but give it e try and see what happens