Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: Diamond Paul on February 20, 2008, 08:09:00 PM
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What say ye? Is there really any appreciable difference between all these custom bows? Could we all shoot just as well with a Martin or Bear as we do with high-end custom jobs? I know, we all have our preferences for certain makers, but it seems to me that most of these bows shoot about the same speed, most of them shoot as accurately as we do, etc., etc. I know people are going to claim that some bows are much faster than others; however, when traditional bows are shooting something under 200fps, does 6 or 8 feet more or less really matter? I just want to hear your opinions. Yes, I like some bows better than others, but I don't know if there is enough difference between a Bob Lee and a Morrison to justify spending twice as much. I guess that's the crux of this question. WHAT SAY YE! :confused:
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We are all built differently, and all these bows are built differently. We pick what feels good to our particular configuration. What shakes my molars loose wouldn't budge some of the more muscled archers here. We are all different, thank goodness, or the world would be a very boring place.
Killdeer :campfire:
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I've been keeping track of all of the bow reports published in Trad Bowhunter since the mag started doing them a few years ago. Generally, the result is that there isn't much performance difference within recurve or longbow groups, though recurves, as a group, tend to be a little faster than longbows, but not that much -- 5-10fps. The fastest recurve is about 15-20fps faster than the slowest longbow. These are all custom high end bows, of course. There's probably not much differenc between them and their mass manufactured counterparts in terms of performance. But looks and personal preference also count for something. :goldtooth:
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To me it is all about the craftsmanship and being able to get a bow that looks and has features that I selected. Not a production line, off the wall, get anywhere bow. My latest bow is a Sheepeater Spirit that my friends Brent and Mark made for me. Having something that a friend made w/ his own hands that you can take out and shoot is something special. I guess to me it is NOT about how the bow performs as it is as much about getting something that is made just for me w/ the look that I want.
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Wood, grip, limb cores, draw weight within 2#s, etc. The choices a custom allows and the fit and finish is what sets many apart. The Martin Hatfield lists for $769.99 at Three Rivers now, there are many customs that can be had for less.
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YES...The Black Widow I have feels SO MUCH better when drawing and shooting than my Bear Takedown. The Bear seems to hit a wall at about 26-27 inches then really stacks the weight. The BW is super smooth as far as I can draw. That is an important difference, for example. I am probably as accurate with one as the other but the draw is totally different.
Although the Bear is production made not custom.
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Fourth and long and I'll punt... :confused: :scared: :saywhat: :eek: :knothead:
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IMO - That's about the size of it (what Killie said). I've been very lucky with bows I've ordered and or ones that were "given" to me. However I am a firm beliver in this outlook - shoot as many bows as you possibly can - and enjoy the experience (god or bad, because you learn from them). Caution: Only "enter into a relationship" with ones you really like to shoot - and hopefully fall in love with - no matter who is the maker, or who else may say it is a good or bad "maker", or particular bow. Then the final thing is, When you find one like that, don't go out and order a gazillion of that make/bowyer's bow, because you surely won't like every single one of them - for you. ("Different Strokes for Different Folks" really applies here - right down to the individual bows. Again - IMO
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Paul,
Lately I have come to the same way of thinking as you.
If a person wants beauty, then I'd say go with a custom. If your just a hunter like me, I believe there are plenty of high performing production bows, that perform as well if not better than some customs, that will fill my needs.
I have spent an unneccessary amount of money on different bows and on shipping, only to finally come to realise that the small amount of difference in performance is not worth it to me anymore.
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I think the production bows of today are superior to those of years past-see hoyt gamemaster. That being said, I owned a Martin Hatfield and although it was accurate, it was by far the slowest, clumsiest bow that I ever shot. You could get an exceptional custom bow for the price of the hatfield.
BD
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I've personally messed around with bows long enough to know exactly what I can shoot best. Now, either I can order within my set parameters from a custom shop or call Martin and have them modify theirs (which they will do within limitations). Don't know if Bear even offers this service.
If I order from a custom shop it will be exactly to my specifications. Martin or Bear don't make one that would be to my exact specifications. I could learn to shoot theirs and I pretty much assume they are of real good quality but why? I can buy to my preference for the same or less.
I used to shop around for used production bows just to shoot and play with but now most decent ones are cost prohibitive to me.
I must say that I have a friend that shoots a Hatfield and he'd whip me good for calling it "production" and he'd be mostly right. He takes more game than I do and wouldn't change for anything. But even he admits it "fits" him perfectly.
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I practice and shoot instinctive inside 25yds for hunting for me any bow will do. My form is neither so perfect nor so bad as to make any difference at this yardage.
Having said that I do enjoy a pretty wood custom bow if for no other reason then to occasionaly rub my hands across the craftsmanship as I set on a slow peacefull watch
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What I have disovered is the differnces in how quiet some bows are and how far they draw without stacking. I shot a number of bows at K-zoo and found there were a lot of differences in certain custom bows. Some drew and shot well, but sounded like a hammer in a garbage can. While others were quiet but drew poorly for me with my longer draw. I have found a few I really like and most are good.
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I could cast a fly with a cane pole but I'd rather have a Winston boron IIx. The majority of stuff is want not need.
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its kind of like trying on shoes...you just keep trying them on until one fits....and then when you find one that fits...you say..this is comfy..and then the grouping starts...
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For some they dont feel they are getting a good bow unless they spend x amount for it. Others see the value in some of the smaller or lesser known bowyers. Companies like Martin, Bear aaand Checkmate have been making top shelf stuff for the working man for years although I feel Martin has priced a couple of there bows a little out of reach and Bears quality is on the rebound back to good.
Having sold and handled alot of bows doesnt make me an expert and I feel I need to sit at the feet of those who come before me and learn more than give my humble oppinion. I like to deal with a Bowyer and the custom bow. Recently I have been dealing with Jim Jones of Firefly longbows. I should be receiving my bow sometime next week but dealing with him has been a total pleasure. After a few years of shooting and knowing how i wanted a bow to be built to accomodate what I want to do, I was able to work with Jim and I'll find out in a few days how this will turn out. Regardless, just by his attitude toward his customers, he has a desire to build what the shooter wants and needs.
I think there are differences in bows. I have had a couple bows by names readily recognized by all here that I hated. Other guys out there sing their praises daily on the forums.
Most guys want "the bow" right off the bat and there are few that find it. i have been through alot of bows and they have helped develope my shooting style but now I have a better idea of what I am looking for in a bow and am a little more picky than I used to be.
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To be analytical, my guess is the price difference is often larger than the difference in function.
So if money is key, go low budget and stand proud!
But...
Who wants a hobby where the only things that matter are practical? Things like function and price.
Where there is no accounting for beauty, choice of options, whimsical choice, bragging rights, snob appeal, exclusivity, being different, picking your bowyer, convincing yourself you have the "best" bow ever, making your self bow, or whatever gets you going, etc...
At least for me it's all that kind of "non-practical" stuff that provides much of the enjoyment.
BTW - Brackenbury Bows are worth every penny. Why? Because I like the two I have. (And that's reason enough)
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This is interesting for this topic to come up because I've been thinking about this a bit lately. When I got into this I shot production and did well with it but eventually was convinced that custom was the way to go. You know, big writers and personalities push the custom thing and you hear that X bow is so much better than a production bow. Long story short is I've spent a fair amount of money on customs and aside from picking woods I'm just not really seeing the big deal. I buy my bows to hunt and I don't want fancy. And in terms of performance, most productions bows when setup with a good string will surprise people with what they are capable of.
I suppose one other reason that I'm a bit negative on custom is that I have yet to have a really smooth deal with a bowyer. I've dealt with a few bigger names and I have yet to have a bow delivered on time.
Don't get me wrong, I think there are some awesome customs out there but I don't think that they are necessary for the bowhunter.
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Nope - not worth it. But then what can I say I have 2 Predators. Plannning on making my own again but time will tell. Such is life.
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You know, guys and gals, what's being said here can be said with many other things in life. Fords, Dodges and Chevys or Ferrari, Lamboragini, and Rolls; Rolex or Timex, ect....Beauty and oftentimes functionality are in the eyes of the beholder. I guess the Harley fans say it best...."If you have to ask, then you really wouldn't understand". And that is not meant to be negative, just kinda puts it in perspective.
IMHO......
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BobW:
"If you have to ask...". Exactly! That was my reason for "punting" in my initial post. As a practical matter, there is almost no way to justify spending $1,200 on a Trad Bow, when you could spend $300 and donate the other $900 to charity.
But...
Is the diamond in your wife's wedding ring worth the extra $3000 compared to the exact same size diamond sitting next to it in the display case. To the naked eye they both look identical.
Is a Breitling watch worth $3,000 more than a Citizens watch? Both tell time.
If you have to ask...
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It depends on how a bow fits you.That could be fit by feel of the grip,draw cycle or just profile and looks.My score will not change because of a price tag or a few FPS.Still we shoot what turns us on. :)
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Like to see an "off the shelf" production model be 57# at 32".....I'm not against any of them, but I couldn't really find one....
I know someone will jump all over me with examples....
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Oh sure ... "Now they tell me ..." huh, BobW? ;) :archer:
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I have owned many more bows than should be allowed,several models from many bowyers,Bear, Martin, Bighorn, Robertson, stotler, john struck,great northern, benchmark, west wallace, black widow, morrison, OL Adcock, DAS Kinetic. Plus have shot many more brands. Back in the early 90's I started shooting one brand more than anyothers, although I was still buying more bows looking for the holy grail. Now that I'm seventy, I finely sold all my bows except six of the same brand that I started shooting in the 1990's. Find the bow for you and stick to it.lol
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what makes a bow IMO and I've owned lots of them, is #1 how it shoots in YOUR hands and #2 do you like it ?
I can count on my hand the number of bows that really, really fit me that I loved .... my original per-ACS Adcock, a Silvertip I had (only 1 of 3 that I'd had REALLY fit me) ... a Hummingbird I had one, a one piece Sley, a SAV Ironwood and I guess the one I'm most impressed with is a Zipper I currently have - that bows FITS
That Zipper might not fit everyone, some wouldn't like it at all, some might think its ugly even.
I'm a big supporter of using tradgang buy/sell/trade. Take $500 and turn it over and around and try 6,8, 10 differnt bows until you find THE ONE
I want to make an offer on that Kingwood ACS thats over there right now :)
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IMO, it depends on your perspective. I know you were comparing "custom" to "off the shelf", but I think the idea was basically "is a $1,000 bow worth twice as much as a $500 bow, will it shoot better", etc. etc. etc.
Of course it depends on the monkey holding the bow. We all know archery is a very mental sport, and I can think of at least one fellow I've shot with that seemed to be hung up on brand names/cost. I believe that if you gave him a broom handle strung up with baling twine, but could convince him it was a "big" name (expensive), he could shoot the lights out with it; but if you gave him the smoothest, sweetest, fastest, most forgiving bow ever built but he was convinced it was a no-name built in some guys garage, he couldn't hit a barn from the inside with it--and he is a dang good shot.
If you want fancy, rare, super exotic materials, then sure you are going to pay more--for looks. Paying a lot more won't mean a thing if the bow doesn't fit. One of the best shots I know has shot his best with an old Bear he either got for free, or paid no more than $25 for (I can't remember--it's been a while). Ugliest bow I've ever seen, but he could sure shoot it.
Personally, I figured out some time ago the price and/or the name won't make a bow shoot, and it won't always mean better (or even good) quality. I've shot "cheap" bows that I liked, and very expensive bows that I hated (and vice-versa). I like a pretty bow, but priority is a bow that fits and works for me. Price has practically nothing to do with that.
There's still a few bowyers that offer some very nice, high-quality custom jobs in the same price range (and less) than several off-the-shelf models--they will even draw attention for the looks, although probably not impress anyone with the name on them. I rather impress someone with my shooting than with the looks of/the name on my bow.
Just to clarify, I have shot some expensive bows that I really liked.....but for me, they were no better (looks, quality, performance, warranty, etc.) than some I liked at half the cost.
'Course I've owned some high-dollar bows, and will probably own another one or three sooner or later....but I have no illusions that paying more will make me a better shot.......
Chad
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Originally posted by Jeff U:
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Who wants a hobby where you the only things that matter are practical? Things like function and price.
I totally agree. If this were the case, no one would own more than one bow at a time either! :scared:
That's just not my idea of a hobby. In fact, I can't think of a single hobby that is worth the money from a "practical" standpoint. Nothing practical about hobbies.
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I second Bob Walker and Labs4me w/ the idea of:
"If you have to ask"
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Diamond Paul,
Is there really any appreciable difference between all these custom bows? My answer is respectfully, no. My take-down recurve cost $200 new in 2005. Shoots like a dream.
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I appriciate your question very much.
A talented archer can shoot any well designed bow well, as long as there is ample time for the archer to become acquainted with the bow. For some that may be a few minutes, or for others a few days.
Many archers have strong preferences for certain bow designs and will claim that they cannot shoot a longbow as well as a recurve, or a recurve as well as a longbow, or a straight grip as well as a dished grip, or palm swell grip, or thumb rest/palm swell grip, or checkered grip, or high wrist grip, or........., but these preferences are largely a matter or what one is used to, or what one has been told by a trusted source. I know archers who can floss your teeth with an arrow shot out of a Howard Hill longbow with a straight grip, and some who can do the same with a high wrist Morrison recurve. Is it the bow, or is it the archer?
What really matters is where the arrows goes when you shoot the bow, if you enjoy the way the bow shoots, and if you want to curl up with the bow next to a roaring fire and bat your eyelashes at it.
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I never met a bow I didn't like....but there were a few that I wouldn't want to be seen in public with. ;)
I've shot a BUNCH of different bows. There are differences. Mostly subtle ones butnotable nonetheless. Is custom worth it? If you are chasing "the perfect bow" to make up for skill deficiencies-NO. You may shoot better for a few days with a new something because you are concentrating but your average ability level probably won't change from one decent bow to another. On the other hand, if you try several bows you will likely find one that you simply like more. Is it worthwhile to have something made especially for you that you will really like? Your money . Your Choice.
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Well, for my money, a Martin Savannah is hard to beat. However, buying a custom bow is a thrill. You are buying a piece of the heart and soul of the man who made it, and if it's worth it to you, go for it.
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Originally posted by Diamond Paul:
What say ye? Is there really any appreciable difference between all these custom bows?
The difference for me has been not so much in the bow, but in the bowyer. When I ordered my first recurve a few years ago, I shot a bunch of them, settled on a bowyer, and gave him a call. From there on it was almost like getting tutored on design tradeoffs, grips, strings, woods, etc. The access to the bowyer was the important part of the "custom" bow for me.
As far as the bow, I ended up with a Brackenbury bow and a couple of pair of limbs, and I have probably adapted more to the bow than I have identified the "perfect" bow for me. But that's been good. I have never had any intention of buying and selling to get to the "one bow" - I bought the one bow that seemed to fit my needs and I have dedicated myself to learning to shoot with that bow. It has been in my hand everywhere I have hunted. Now, it feels like a part of me.
Slightly different approach but it has worked for me.
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For my thin & dusty dime, I say there are differences. Sometimes good, sometimes bad.
I've only been back in Trad a couple years, but had or currently own everything from straight production Bear, Martin, and Wing, to the semi-production CM's, to my full custom Kotas.
The smoothest and most quiet has been/is my Kota Prairie Swift and Kota TD, followed by the CM H2's.
The fastest is my Martin Mamba.
The hardest to shoot well, at least for me, was a tie between a 62" Fedora I had (I don't know whether to classify this one as a semi-production or custom, but they aren't cheap!) and my 52" Bear K-Mag. In all fairness, I knew the K-Mag would be more difficult to master, but I bought it for a limited role as a "blind bow", and it does the job great.
The middle of the pack stuff would be my CM H56, H1, and my old (late 60's)58" Wing Red Wing Hunter.
So in my experience so far, the custom and semi-production bows I've shot are more quiet, more smooth, and easier to shoot well than the production models.
So what it boils down to is that a guy has to decide if the cost and wait for a custom made for you to your specs is worth it to you personally...
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If it fits you it's a winner. If you handle/shoot enough bows you will find ones that fit you all along the price spectrum. Your tastes will get more refined in what fits and what doesn't. I have found that I need a small locator type grip to get that familiar old shoe fit. For me that means longbows and 50s style recurves. I have found that I much prefer clear glass and pretty wood though. That knocks alot of the so called "production" bows out of the game. Many of the "customs" are built in an assembly line fashion, while some of the productions bows are built one at a time by bowyers that have been at it for 40-50 years.
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Well, lots of good opinions here. I asked this question mainly because I have "chased the dream," so to speak, buying and selling lots of very expensive bows in the hope of finding "the one!" They all were nice bows, some I liked, some weren't for me, but I never really noticed that much real difference between the really expensive ones and the not so expensive ones, other than the "eye candy" factor. None have seemed particularly faster than the others (and I've had a Morrison and a Black Widow). Some did seem smoother (a Fox High Sierra recuve would have the be, subjectively, the smoothest I've owned), some did have better grips for me, but I can't say I saw any real world difference between a the cheapest (a used Wapiti) and the most expensive (a custom Black Widow). Am I just chasing a dream, or is there a bow out there that puts 'em all to shame? I may never know. . . Paul.
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If you put that Bear Custom Kodiak on a scale, you will see it doesn't stack until it reaches about 30". I don't know what you are feeling but it isn't stack 8^).
The Black Widow is a great shooting bow for sure, but I prefer the Custom Kodiak. It shows that they are indeed different to each person.
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Thats some deep thinking Paul, its making me all teary eyed. I have seen you shoot! I don't think it matters what you have in your hand, If I was a varmit(which is debatable) I wouldn't want you shooting at me. Good luck in finding that perfect bow pal.
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I think Chad and Goast Dog summed up my feelings on the question. It is the archer who draws,aims and shoots the arrow. Lots of guys buy brand x bow thinking it's going to make them a instant better shooter because it is the hot ticket at the time. Don't work that way. A good archer will make good use of the positive attributes that a custom bow can give him. It's a very personal thing.
I equate this to playing pool. I have been playing since I was a kid. I see guys who will drop 2 grand on a custom cue thinking its going to instantly make them a better player only to just continue to slam balls with a 2K cue. A good road player will take a broom stick with a good tip and drain every penny out of your pocket, that $2,000 cue then sweep the joint out after he's done. I have grown accustomed to the trates that my cue possesses and that enables me to do some pretty cool stuff on a table. Bows/shooting is the same thing in my book.
If the guy behind the tool has a full understanding of what he's doing with it, anything is possible. Do some bows greatly improve some peoples shooting abilities in quick order? I would say to a degree, yes, they found a bow that comliments their shooting style. Those are the bows your suppose to hold on to, by the way.
Regards
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It always amazes me how just a slight difference in the grip can mess with my shot process. I would hate to say what is better, but the differences are important.
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Is there really any difference between all these bows?
You could approach this question from several different angles:
Shootability: stack/hand shock/feel
Performance:accuracy/speed/efficiency
Durability.
Aesthetics.
Customer service.
Reputation of the bowyer/company.
Resale value.
Is it possible that you might find a $300 bow that you shoot as well as a $1,200 bow? Absolutely! So if you're just looking for "shooter", rest easy knowing that you do not have to mortgage the farm to buy a bow that performs well. Lots of great shooting trad bows out there these days.
Here's a question: If you pay $600 for a custom bow, hunt with it hard for 20 years and then sell it for $650 on *-b*y, how much did that bow actually cost you?
With a few exceptions, IMHO I doubt that you will find an "off the shelf" bow that will match a custom bow on all the (possible) criteria sited above. I suspect that when someone decides to fork out $1,200 for a custom bow, they are expecting a little more out of it than a $300 bow should reasonably be expected to deliver.
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Hmmmmm.....Put an arrow on the string.....Pull it back.....Let it go.....Arrow flys.....
Nope.....They all do the same thing..... :archer:
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"Who wants a hobby where the only things that matter are practical? Things like function and price.
Where there is no accounting for beauty, choice of options, whimsical choice, bragging rights, snob appeal, exclusivity, being different, picking your bowyer, convincing yourself you have the "best" bow ever, making your self bow, or whatever gets you going, etc..."
I guess it all depends on what your "hobby" is. My hobby is bowhunting, not owning bows. That's not to say that I don't like pretty bows becuase I do. For some of us, function IS beauty.
In my neck of the woods, at the end of the day, bragging rights, snob appeal, convincing yourself that you have the best bow ever, etc., all comes from putting an arrow where it's supposed to go.
Lenny
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"IS THERE REALLY ANY DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ALL THESE BOWS?" Yes.
Now whether the differences are worth the money or not, will be up to each individual shooter. Beauty is in the eye of the "bowholder".
Shoot every bow you can...after shooting a hundred or more different bows (no I'm not exaggerating), you'll find a few that you shoot better than any of the others and you will obviously gravitate towards those. Some of those few may be expensive, some may be cheap, but after that many bows I'll bet you'll be able to clearly tell the difference in what YOU like or dislike. Then, someday you may get good enough to shoot any bow you pick up relatively well. If/when that time comes, I'll bet you'll still have one/some you prefer over others....for obvious reasons to you that may not be so obvious to others.
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"Hmmmmm.....Put an arrow on the string.....Pull it back.....Let it go.....Arrow flys.....
Nope.....They all do the same thing..."
Yep.
Turn the key, start 'em up and they all get ya from point A to point B. All cars do the same thing too. No appreciable difference between a $50,000 Vette and a $100 Pinto.
Put the shell in. Pull the trigger and all shotguns do the same thing. Correct, no difference whatsoever between a $5,000 Belgian made Browning and a $350 870 Express.
Put 'em on your feet. Lace 'em up and they all get you down the trail. No difference whatsoever between a $25 hiking boot and a $250 hiking boot.
Turn the key. Push in the throttle. Pull back the yoke and you’re off. No difference at all between a Cessna 140 and a Piper Super Cub.
Put it on your wrist and read the time. No difference at all between a certified Swiss Chronograph and a Timex.
Beauty and value are in the eyes of the beholder. If you find something that works for you –something that you are happy with – that’s all that should really matter. Right?
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performance wise...not much
Looks, feel, fit & finish, etc. - That runs the gamut.
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If you like it, it was worth it. If you don't, you made a mistake......
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Man, this is great! Great answers! Ok, when I mentioned the Martin and Bear bows, that was just as an example of commonly available ready-made bows; they seem to be the archetypes for this. But there are lots of other custom and/or semi-custom bows (Bob Lee comes to mind) that cost considerably less than the "eye-candy" bows, but seem to match them in the areas that really matter. I certainly agree that the really high end bows excel in fit, finish, and aesthetic appeal. However, I have always been apprehensive about actually hunting with bows that are this nice! I have seen some Morrisons that knock my socks off, but can't imagine dragging them up a tree in the dark! By the way, John, I only shoot good when I'm shooting with you; maybe it's a comparison thing, or something to do with that floating thumb anchor of yours. . .LOL!
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two word answer is....hell yeah.
Some look good, others look great. Some shoot good, others shoot great. some cost a little, others cost alot. But here's the big thing....
You'll shoot some good. You'll shoot others GREAT. And it might not matter much who made it, how it looks, or what it cost you.
You may obtain the bow of your life, and not be able to hit a bull's ass with it. The one you dont think much of might just be the one for you.....
Wait...aint it the same with women?
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Yeah, except a good woman might be even harder to find!
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Well how a bow fits makes a difference.More than the cost or looks for me anyway.I have had a lot of bows and still have quite a few.I bought a used 21st Cebtury from someone on the site a couple years ago.With a lot of modifying and weight reduction that bow is the bow I reach for when points count.It fits me to a tee from the grip,weight and the centershot has been adjusted to shoot the exact arrow I want to use.Now it is not my fastest bow or the quitest or most shock free bow.It is not even what most would call a looker.But it is the bow I shoot better than anything else I pick up.:)So yes custom features do make a difference but I doubt if I could have ordered a custom bow and got the fit I have with this one at any price. jmho
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Originally posted by BobW:
If you like it, it was worth it. If you don't, you made a mistake......
It's that mistake that people seem to not want to admit to making. So they go on and tell you it was a great bow even though they sold it to finance another. :banghead:
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I bought my savannah through one shop (custom weight @ draw and my name printed on it) for $350. A Savannah off the shelf at another shop would cost me between $450 and $500. The fact is I would love a certain really custom bow, but I don't have really custom money and to be completely honest with you; I couldn't see how I could make my shooting experience even better by spending $1000 and waiting 6 months before I even see the bow. for those of you with the cashflow and the patience, more power to you.
--Airborne
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The diff. I see in all those bows is I don't own them all lol.
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I think bows are like womens ...
You fall in love of a lovely girl, you married her and 2 years ago ....... so you know ..lol
Same for the bows, this time I'm dreaming about a Widow, but, what about in two years ???
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DUH.......YEAH!! :campfire: :clapper: :biglaugh:
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To build upon the above theory that bows are like women, I agree. Even if you have the best one for you, when you see another beautiful one, you dream about what it would be like to try her out.....just for a few shots...And as most of us find out, there is not that must difference between them (of course I refer to the bows)
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I'll stick to trying different bows.Trying different women is a lot more expensive and dangerous. :rolleyes:
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A huge difference can be in the feel and performance of the grip!
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GG:
I hope we were back on the topic of bows.... :saywhat:
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no difference .it all comes down to money thats the difference. :biglaugh: