Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: OkKeith on February 23, 2008, 04:24:00 AM
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Guys...(and gals, I use this as a non-gender specific greeting),
It's real early in the morning here, I am having a little trouble sleeping. Why? I'm ticked-off. Many of you may not be aquainted with this term. Source or history of the word is unknown to me. All I know is it was used a lot as I was growing up. It was as hard a word as my Momma would allow in the house for being mad enough to spit (couldn't do that in the house either).
My prose is not elegant, and I have been told that crayon drawings by blindfolded preschoolers are easier to understand than the stories I tell. The essence of my anger stems from what is happening to my world and how it views those of us who choose to hunt.
I have been looking for a new place to live. Have to move closer to town to get away from all the people who live in the "country". Was stopped twice on the way home this year by "neighbors" wanting to know why I had a dead deer in my truck. I explained that I killed it with a bow I made from a tree I cut down. I wasn't sure what they were more taken aback by, I had killed a deer on purpose or that I had cut down a tree.
Can't hunt all the places I used to because they are parceled out in "estate acerages" now. Real nice houses, I couldn't afford one but the guy down the lane says the goverment is gonna make his house payments for him now (guess he couldn't either).
Found a nice place in town, close to work to save on gas (or at least to put more towards hunting) and went through all the 20 questions a lifelong renter is used to...no pets, don't smoke, will mow the yard, no weapons. Weapons?
"Yes, weapons", she said. "We don't believe in any kind of objects created for the purpose of killing".
"You mean like assault-rifles and stuff?" I asked.
"Anything." she says.
"Well all I have is my hunting gear. A rifle and shotgun or two. All my fishing rods and of course my bows. A lot of bows."
"No, not here."
"They are all legal. Not a one of my bows holds more than half a dozen arrows in the quiver at a time. I don't have any pre-ban high capacity quivers." (She didn't get it)
"No not here."
In an effort to bring this to a hastier end, I did finally find a place that accepted me and my habits. I think it may be important for some of you to check my profile, see where I live. Not a far western state or on the eastern seaboard where I here this type of thing may be common. I live in Oklahoma. Oklahoma for Pete's sake. Most of you probably think we still live in teepees and HAVE to hunt just to eat. If this sort of thing can happen here, God help the future of hunting in this country.
OkKeith
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The best thing you can do is keep on keepin' on. Go the extra mile to take folks out to 3D shoots and on fishin' trips. Give deermeat to folks who otherwise wouldn't eat it. Make kitchen knives for old ladies out of rusty files and deer sheds. Get involved with Hunters for the Hungry. Hold a fish fry and invite folks who won't or don't fish. In other words, fight dirty politics with good politics. We live in a world where folks are just more citified and your situation is just one symptom. Best of luck to ya.
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Mate, being a tad ticked-off is more than understandable. The bottom-line is that popular attitudes these days are increasingly disrespectful and insulting - actually, adultery's cool, as is homosexuality, as is simulated mass-murder on computer games, as is loud music that encourages all sorts of rot...but the one thing that is certainly not cool, more and more so, is to be a hunter, because we're all wicked, evil, mean and nasty!
And pre-ban high capacity quivers? What, are back quivers out where you're at?
All the best to you, Keith. I hope you find some decent spots and some respectful people.
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Keith, you have got to be joking, I live in the city limits in Okmulgee and have not had a problem yet, but I'm sure its only a matter of time. I hope you have better neighbors this go around.
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They are out there and they breed.
Rapidly.
Fight them at every turn, maintaining the utmost decency and utilizing the high road, but do find a way to introduce contraceptives to their water supply.
Heads up, country folk. It is happening everywhere, under your noses. It starts with subdividing, realtors and city councils eyeballing tax bases.
Killdeer
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Hey Guys,
Didn't think anyone else would still be up/ would be up already this early.
Abel, you are exactlly right. New neighbors, fresh chance. I lived in the previous place for nearly ten years. It went from a rather scattered farming community, where we all knew each other, and helped each other; to a pretty crowded place where everyone peeked at each other over the stockade fence, but would never talk to ya. Believe it or not, Hunters for the Hungry was turned down when they tried to donate hundreds of pounds of venison to the City of Tulsa's homeless shelters because some folks in the city were upset that "animals had to die" to get that meat! In OKLAHOMA this happened.
Ben, not all that early or late for you is it? The pre-ban statement was sort of a wise crack. We passed some gun control legislation here some time back that had to do with how many rounds a rifle could hold and still be a "good gun" versus being a "bad gun". She seemed anti-gun so I figured she would get it. Maybe she did, and didn't think I was funny. I saw the pictures you posted. You fellas have some interesting looking country over there. How nervous are you climbing into a brush blind in the pre-dawn with all those crazy snakes ya'll have?
Phillip, hey man your not too far away from here! All the newer neighbors were OK folks, just not the farmer/rancher types I grew up around. Seems like before, a dead deer in the truck and everyone KNEW what you had accomplished. What sort of work goes into it.
Thanks for the words guys. Guess I just thought folks in MY state knew better. I know this type of thinking is out there, just not in MY state. Guess what upset me the most was the abrupt realization that yes, even people in Oklahoma can misunderstand and have illogical predjudices against hunting. Daddy always said the more important the lesson, the more it might hurt when you learn it.
OkKeith
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I feel your pain Keith. We have them out here too. We call them Bunny Huggers.Amazing the state of OK . Where some of the people that previously inhabited this great land were thrown together and placed on reservations. The almighty dollar.Looks like there will be Mini Mansions popping up in your State soon too.I myself would consider moving if you can.
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Keith,
I just moved out of the city the @$%# hole they call Memphis and I had neighbors that acted the same way. For example, i had been crappie fishing one day and at home later that afternoon i had pulled aroynd behind my house in my backyard to clean my fish. one of neighbors walked over to tell me that catching fish wasnt right because of the pain they went thru with that hook in their mouth. Another example was cleaning a turkey in my backyard and my backdoor neighbor was had stood up on something to see in my backyard what i was doing and said something about it. The point i am tryng to make is, people need to keep their noses out of others business, and where do they go off thinkiong we are the bad guys who are trying to ruin the world. I bet most of us if not all of us in here always respect the game we kill or hunt or catch and have never done anything disrespectful or harmful to anyone. The ones are talking all the BS are the ones that ignorant and do not know any better. OH keith, you have gotten my blood boiling this morning. :banghead:
The best quote i have read on here is "I didnt fight my way to the top of the food chain to be a vegatarian". Everyone have a great day, i going to hunt somnething.
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I am feelin ya. We need to do our part to stop it but I am afraid socializm is around the corner. I don't believe that God will continue to put up with the United States attitude. He whips his children. I pray everyday for my 2 year old son. I am 32 and have seen a portion of the better days, not like some of you who were fortunate enough to be born in a different time. We need to pray for these little issues in our country. I want my son to see the good days.
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I will probably take some flak for this but the owner of the rental property has all the right to ban weapons in their apartment. Just because we hunt and own weapons does not give us the right to tell other people what can and can not be on their property.
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Cheer up Keith!
Most Okies are in your corner. :thumbsup:
(Heck, it looks like we are even going to get a bear season soon.)
Life's too short to worry about folks that don't agree with you. I can't find anyone anywhere who agrees with me on everything.
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I live just down the road on the west side of Tulsa. My next door neighbor and me always have some type of critters laid out in the back of the truck.
Most of the "others" didn't know how to take us at first, but I've had my other side neighbor and her daughter watch me clean turkeys and ducks and deer and ask all kinds of questions which I answered. They do not hunt but they don't have a problem with me doing it.
I do have one woman down the road who questioned why I needed goose decoys and then why would I hunt. I told her what I thought about how (in detail) store bought chickens are raised and butchered and she left me alone after that.
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Keith, I am sure its seems like you are surrounded a times, but there has to be alot of good folks around you. When you have to deal with idiots it is best to do it quick and retreat, lest it is contagious. The bunny huggers don't last too long here in North Dakota, too damn cold for em. chickenman
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I live in a small town that shuts down school the first couple days of the deer shotgun season so the kids can go kill some deer with their families. The next town 10 miles south of here is that much closer to Columbus and is slowly being turned into a Columbus suberb. I use to live there. You can tell by the attitude folks carry and the bunny /tree huggin bumper stickers that cover their cars. Mall walkers is what I call em. I like the good ol days when you killed a nice buck and strapped it to the hood of your car and went around town to the hardware store, auto parts store...ect and showed everybody what you did and they were proud for ya. Those days are gone but there are still alot of good folk out there who understand what huntin is about.
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I hear you !You are not alone....
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Living in Tulsa, I expect a bit of that attitude from some people, but it is kind of shocking that that attitude is rampant in Claremore. Heck, y'all have one of the best archery shops in the area up there (especially for trad.)
Good Luck, and like Lost Arra said "Most Okies are in your corner"
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I would have answered no to all her questions. Moved in and said nothing. As much as it is her right to know it's your right to keep your matters private! If she did find out it would take her a year to evict you and cost her a small fortune!
Steve from Canton, as long as it is legal in this country, and in the city you live, You will win in court!
What you do outside your house, apartment maybe a different matter. There they can set the rules! No shooting, changing oil, no commercial trucks, clothes lines, a/c out the windows, etc; all that has to do with the value of property, or others, or cost to repair.
It's called discremination! It comes in all forms!
Fight the Fight!
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I can see why you would be upset, I have tirned down places to live because of this reason and paid more for others. I try to do all of my hunting things with respect for others who do not like it even though most of them do not show us the same respect. It go to the point, we have all of our deer form our November bow hunt in SE Ohio butchered before we leave wich can be costly upwards of $450 this year for only the 3 of us. Getting the finger more than th e thumbs up gets old, and my son will be going this year and I do not want him to see all of this at 9yrs old. If onl ythese people knew why we do it and could feel it in their heat they make look at us in a different view.
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I live in the deep south, and can't imagine being anywhere else. You would be welcome around here any time!
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Lone Archer,
I can't condone lying to someone when asked outright if you own weapons. It goes against the whole HONOR thing.
It is discriminatory, kinda like us trad folk get with those wheelie boys. We have a right to feel that way about our property and a right to voice it. It stinks to high heaven, don't get me wrong.
I am a proud gun owner, a proud trad archer and a proud hunter. I will not lie about it. I will not hide it from someone elses view because they don't approve. Part of standing up for our rights as "weapons" owners and hunters has to do with admitting what we are.
I would be more apt to kindly but directly let the renter know that I am not interested in causing a fuss but that I want to excercise my rights as a citizen of this country by owning "weapons" and using them for hunting/fishing purposes. So I would have to decline their offer of a rental property. It may not do a thing for them, but then again, it would put a "weapons owner" and hunter/fisherman in a honest and respectful light in my eyes. After all, isn't that what we say we are???
Long Story short - the situation stinks, it's wrong. I am sorry that anyone has to deal with it. Remain true and honest about who and what you are and be honorable in your dealing with other people. When they are confronted with your actions and your words meeting in the same place they may be able to recognise the truth and not the lies they are fed.
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Walt disney and schools influencing how children view hunting is what scares me the most.
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BF,
You don't mean that Disney lied do you? You mean that the Mastodon taking care of the baby when the mother died isn't factual? It brought tears to my eyes seeing the compassion in the Mastodon's eyes for that little tyke:)
Give me a break!!!!
You can't get away from them; but you can try. I just moved to Montana to get around a "better" class of people. I have grown tired of defending my rights as a hunter.
Four years ago, I was run off the high school property where I was training on the bleachers for an upcoming hunt. Made the mistake of telling the nice plus sized female what I was doing when she asked why I was there. She freaked and started telling me why I should be a vegan and how she would not allow me to train at "her" school for such an unethical endeavor. When I refused to leave(I paid taxes in support of the school as well as my daughter attending), she called the police. I had my pack on my back and was carrying my bow in my hands but had no arrows. I was given the choice of taking the "weapon" off school property or being arrested. I tactfully retreated. I could go on, but I'm sure that everyone here has had similar incidents. We are just going to have to be dilligent and hang together. Present a good argument and show the rest of the world that we are good ethical people. Anyway, I've said enough. Good hunting.
Jon
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With the Supreme Court's upcoming review of the DC case, maybe we will have a precedent that will send a message to the anti crowd. That companies' policies are a violation your civil rights. Antis are everywhere not just in OK. I know we have a crowd of 'em around here. The best way too fight back is to support the organizations who fight for hunters rights like the NRA and many others.
Killy, Please don't lump all the Real Estate Agents into the same pile. Some of us are actually pretty good folks and decent citizens!!
David
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Ain't ignorance bliss! Most tree huggers have no idea how their McD's hamburgers and backyard steaks and brats live their normal life. Nor do they realize how they're harvested. And the vegetarian's concept, which ignores the very teeth in their mouth, is far more confused than that.
Look, I don't care how they live thier lives and I recognize their ignorance for what it is... a lack of correct information. Some people don't like information that doesn't fit their 6 o'clock world view, and will simply not hear the truth. Well, if it made them any smarter, I would tape giant truth clubs to my hands and clobber everyone I could find, but some people choose ignorance (stupid) and their ain't much to do for them.
I believe in my fellow man (and woman), and their basic intelligence to grasp the concept of where all meat comes from. However, many people today live in people confinement areas (like hog confinement areas but are called cities) and as such know only what they experience. This does not make them stupid (that I can prove), but it does limit their experience. Those of us who are free rangers might not understand the natural instincts of the confinement humans any more than they understand ours. So what do we do?
We must be polite, honest and helpful to these less fortunate bretheren. We must take someone who does not know about hunting, hunting. Get involved! Teach archery at school, at the 'Y', take a kid fishing, hiking, bird watching. Find a scout pack and teach them how to make bow strings, or bows; how to hunt and track. If your on this site YOU have knowlege which is invaluable to others, so SHARE IT! Instill the same love for the outdoors to our children and theirs, and soon that blissful ignoranc will dissappear. And as it goes, so will the misunderstandings which places hunters in peril.
-Brett
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Steve in Canton I think you totally missed the Point that was trying to be made!!
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I live in the country here in michigan and hunting is pretty much accepted...there are a few ...and i say a few that dont want any hunting on there land...i respect that ..and actually look at those plots as sanctuarys and a good thing... I did ask to hunt a place for rabbits awhile back..the land owner says " you hunt rabbits"... when we see a rabbit "we think of that as good luck".... i said yeah me too! especially if i get my bow drawn quick enough... the guy wouldnt let me hunt rabbits , but didnt care if i shot turkeys and deer... i guess all we can do is respect others property and wishes... I completely understand where you are coming from but havent had the problems yet...most of the farmers around here want the animals killed....too much crop damage...
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had a neighbor explain to me why hunting was wrong and how could I possibly kill such a beautiful animal (nice 8 point)I listened and told him to go back across my yard to his property.The next fathers day they were having a family bar-b-q I walked over and ask him how could he possibly be feeding his family meat that had been injected with who knows what and then had a huge metal rod slamed into its brain hung up buy its back legs and had its throat cut. Last time we spoke.
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Steve from canton is probably right (I'm not a lawyer) but it is disgusting nontheless. It is against the law to discriminate on rental based on age, sex, sexual orientation, race, etc..., and I am sure that it is illegal to discriminate based on whether or not someone choses to hunt or own weapons of mass destruction such as a recurve and shotgun. Landowners can prevent you from renting property if you have pets as they can cause damage but I don't know if there is any such relationship with weapons. I'd be interested in hearing a lawyer's point of view on this topic. I doubt that the ACLU is going to be stepping up to the plate.
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I'm not sure that it is legal for a property owner to not rent to you based on whether or not you choose to own weapons as gun/weapon ownership is a constitutional right. Just as they can not refuse you the property on the basis of your race or sexual orientation, they cannot use your weapons against you.
However, it is far more costly and time-consuming to make this argument in a court-of-law than it is likely worth. I agree with one of the guys above...keep on keepin' on. There are enough of US out there so as to keep a nice bowhunting (and rifle/shotgun hunting for that matter) quorum around our great big campfire (oh, do they disagree with burning wood also?). Likely, their homes are built with more lumber than it would take to build 4 modest homes.
My Dad is an avid golfer and he always tells me, "In life, head down, swing easy, follow through." Good lessons. It is too easy to argue with these folks about harvesting game, but they are arguing with anger and emotion, no facts, no history. It is not worth the energy. Much better to join other hunters by the fire and share a tale of the woods.
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I guess I would have asked about knives. Do they allow knives? Couldn't they be considered a weapon? What about baseball bat?
Sorry to hear oabout your unfortunate incidence.
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I lived about as far back in the woods a guy can live growing up. My grandad was in the timber business and part of his job involved scouting. He carried a machete (spelling?) on the dash of his truck. A cop pulled him over and wanted to give him trouble about having a "weapon" displayed in public. My grandad politely told him that "it isn't a weapon its a tool. Just like a screw driver its a tool until I make it a weapon. Heck I can make anything a weapon, but its a tool boy." He had a tough hide and flawless reason haha
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Widowbender, I'm having a hard time being optimistic about that supreme court case coming up...don't forget this is the same court that by virtue of their ruling on eminant domain in the Connecticut case, attempted to eliminate private property rights. Not Good.
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One's right to self defense does not end at another's driveway much less the home or apartment you are renting and RESIDE within.
I doubt you want to live in a community so full of ignorant cowards, but the bottom line is, it's none of their business even when asked nor do I think it's dishonorable to not answer. (Some questions are so disrespectful they don't deserve an answer and that is not lying). Live where you want and never apologize for excercising your God given rights.
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Originally posted by OkKeith:
Believe it or not, Hunters for the Hungry was turned down when they tried to donate hundreds of pounds of venison to the City of Tulsa's homeless shelters because some folks in the city were upset that "animals had to die" to get that meat!
OkKeith
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Originally posted by OkKeith:
Believe it or not, Hunters for the Hungry was turned down when they tried to donate hundreds of pounds of venison to the City of Tulsa's homeless shelters because some folks in the city were upset that "animals had to die" to get that meat!
OkKeith
I hate people like that, who dont want you killing animals for food. Where does all their meat come from????? Them and their pedestal. It disgusts me.
PS I'm in Oklahoma too!
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I will stick to what i said before. You can not compare this issue to discrimination of either race or sex. The owners of the property are against weapons not who you are as a person. This is still their private property even though they are renting it out and they can decide before they rent to you if they want weapons or not on their property. Think of it this way, if you owned 20 acres for hunting do you have the right to not let other people hunt that property. Of course you do and you are not discriminating against anybody just protecting your propery rights. We have a right to own weapons, we do not have a right to carry them anywhere we want.
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I agree with OkKeith, there are lots of people out there who believe in things that I don't like very much. However, I will say that the person who wouldn't rent to you because of your "weapons" is also free to believe as he/she does, and is free to make a statement about those beliefs in any legal way he/she chooses, i.e., by not renting to you because of your weapons. That's the problem with America: you have to let other people express their beliefs, even when they are repugnant to you. Just remember, liberals are always spouting off about freedom, as long as it's the same kind of freedom they believe in. We don't want to fall into the same trap. Just my opinion.
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I am not at all sure the supreme court is going to come up with anything good for us either.
I have seen so many places where I was not allowed to hunt; by the land owning person- only to come back years later and find a mall there..that I could puke.
I live in Idaho; in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the nowhere state.
I still get confronted by antihunters all the time.
The lady who lives up the hill behind me once stopped me from sneaking up on some mulie bucks; saying I had no right to hunt there. 'There' included my own property.
She wanted it to be like it was ' when the Indians lived here'; and that is why she does not allow the hunting of hungarian partridge and chuckars- or deer or elk or antelope.
I argue with these people in a not so nice tone. I have tried being nice; but it just didn't work for me. I explained to this lady that there were no hungarian partridge or chuckars when the indians lived here; and there WAS bowhunting.
It does not matter to these folks; you just cannot throw facts into a discussion when those facts don't support the persons desires.
Here in the middle of nowhere; there are more anti hunters than hunters. They sell their property and retire and move up here and before they empty their suitcase they are nailing up 'NO HUNTING' signs.
The majority of those that DO hunt; are either shooting deer and elk off their porches while the elk they have fed year round come in for their daily hay --on opening day.
These anti hunters are the first to complain about deer eating their plants; or getting into their garden. They also drive over the speed limit figuring deer are smart enough to get out of their way.
It makes absolutely no sense; but they are quite happy to be in a state of no sense. Its easy to be an antihunter; because you need nothing to back that position up but your own right to have an opinion.
Even if - as in the case of the wolf introduction program - animals of all kinds are being killed ; dogs-cats- horses- mules- donkeys- llamas- no matter.
These people are generally not for animals; they are against hunting.
They drink soy and feel they are heros to the milk cows; when the rain forest is being destroyed to grow soy- destroying habitat for all kinds of animals. Including the important ones - the pretty ones.
There are good moments; I did have an antihunter once follow me along on her property; on her side of the fence while my dog and I hunted the other. She screamed at me for being a murderer; and all the stuff she could come up with. Then she scared up a pheasant; which flew right over the fence to me and ....despite my pleas for her to continue helping me hunt; she left in a huff. do tell.
Somehow antihunters equate being 'civilized; with their position on hunting. Dr Jane Goodall studied chimpansees for decades; and seems to not have focused at all on their organized hunting of monkeys; and the eating of them. She summed it up by saying 'sometimes they do eat meat'. Yeah uh huh.
We are up against the richest - most arrogant- closed minded- opininated- ignorant- concieted people on the planet. They can afford to ignore the truth. I watched a commercial for the world wildlife fund; which showed among other things; a picture of a tiger walking towards the camera ( while the perfect lyrics of a song played in the background- do listen to that commercial) and claiming that hunting is making the tigers extinct.
They make big money off of lies like that. There are conflicts between tigers and people; as people taste pretty good. But they do have areas where the tigers are protected; and could live there for ever. Its not hunting that is killing the tigers; its the fact humans need more and more space to live; and tigers and people have a long history of not living together without people dying.
Elephants in Africa are living good lives - as are other animals in places where hunting is allowed; and in areas where hunting is NOT allowed; they are dwindling in numbers. Hunters spend money to shoot elephants to keep them in check with the food supplies; and the meat feeds the people that live there - while antihunters pay for rehabilitation programs and other help the bunny stuff; while people die by the thousands without any help from them at all.
These are not logical people. They have tried using common sense; and it just doesn't work for them.
And HOOD; while Roosevelt talked "speak softly and carry a big stick" he would be arrested in New York city for carrying a big stick. Yep its illegal; but then New York is a safe place to live ! [sic]
While we do have biology and facts and all that stuff on our side; they have money and influence.
We have to take our pleasure when we can. I have an antihunting neighbor that wants to get out of a delivery contract; and so he ran into a deer with his delivery van. Not being the smartest person in the world; he smacked the deer really well; so well it sailed through the air and landed on his personal car - parked off the road and below it. Totaled both. While I do not feel good about the deer dying; I can remember the look on his face when I walked up and commented on his prediciment. He remembers my smile I gave him; and I still smile at him the same way- every time I see him. He is the first to yell at me legally hunting; or anyone else.
See its not about the animals; its about having an ideology that you don't have to defend; and that gives you support with the ladies; and those in pursuit of the ladies.
Remember the signs the anti hunters used to carry that said "prove your manhood in bed boys!". ?
Well we have made enough progress that - that particular sign makes little sense; what with some of the prettiest girls out there doing the hunting now days ( ie; Tiffany and Vickii and others) and some of the most lovely and level headed women out there hunting ( we need go no further than Killdeer to prove that).
We are making strides; but we really do need a big organization that can make pretty commercials that tell the truth to the masses.
The antihunters grasp of the effect of commercials: is what is making momentum for them; and our lack of it: is what is endangering us the most.
:archer:
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That's horrible! I have never been asked if I have firearms, and I've rented six times in California over the past 15 years.
What has always bothered me is not ever allowing dogs. I have a 65lb. golden retriever mix, and more often than not she's had to stay with family, because nobody will rent to a dog owner.
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I grew up in a farming family. We raised beef cattle. I remember the very moment that I experienced an epiphany that opened my eyes to the fact that there are some dangerously stupid people out there. (to abbreviate a long story , here is the quoute that I heard when this lady was asked if they were butchering the hog for their "traditional" italian dinner...."ohhh no, we love animals, we get our meat from the butcher". That was an eye opening moment for me, since in retrospect I had a rural upbringing that was sheltered from such stupidity. I never ate store bought beef until I left home. I also remember taking a short field trip to the local slaughter house in 2nd grade. I'm 36 now, so not that long ago considering how quickly things have gone downhill. These days I know what's up and then some.
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Steve in Canton, with all due respect, I can't make the connection between someone that advertises their property for rent to the general public and the analogy that you offer pertaining to someone who has 20 acres. Should a landlord be able to verify your political party affiliation before renting to someone, or how about reviewing your reading list? I may be off-base from a legal perspective though. If that's the case...LORD help us!
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It all comes down to property rights. As long as you are not breaking the law by discriminating based on sex, race etc, it is your right to rent to whoever yuo want based on your criteria, just like it is your right to let someone on yur land based on the criteria that you set.
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Steve in Canton,
I respectfully disagree with your arguement. Perceived "Property rights" have nothing to do with the Second Amendment.
Jim
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This is not a second amendment issue. there is a reason that businesses are allowed to post signs that weapons are not allowed. This is the same, you are allowed to set standards for what you want on your property weather we agree or not as long as no laws are broken.
This issue has started to stray from traditional archery so I feel that I am going to back out of this discussion now.
Steve
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Huh? How can it not be a Second Amendment issue?
What if someone at an Illinois University had been able to end that slaughter with a gun? Would he or she have been just as big a criminal for defending innocents? According to you, yes, because of "property rights".
Your treading a slippery slope and just don't know it yet.
Take care,
Jim
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Steve, I still maintain that you are failing to differentiate between a landowner "letting" someone use their property (or essentially granting permission) and the person that "solicits" the general public in hopes that they can secure someone elses money in exchange for their rental property. The renter has certain inherent rights under those circumstances. BIG difference, and not a good analogy for comparison.
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Thanks for all the oral and moral support.
I did find a place, better than the other one actually. I was standing in the back yard talking to the new landlady about where it would be OK to put the garden, and low-and-behold I heard the sweet music of arrows hitting a target. The guy next door is an avid angler/hunter (he still has training wheels on his bow, but shoots fingers). Nice fella'.
Things always turn out the way they are intended, don't they.
OkKeith
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I have read all of the posts on this topic and have been shocked, laughed, shook my head, and marveled at the ignorance of some people as well as the patience of all the hunters who posted here. Your neighbours are lucky you are all so reasonable.
I particularly like the post about the neighbour's Father's Day BBQ. I wish I had that kind of nerve!
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Why does all of this seem so suprising to everyone? Ever since the whiteman hit the shores of this country the have been trying to make it "better", get rid of the wild and make it productive. Build houses where forests and fields once were. Kill all the buffalo. Turn that nice looking river into a lake behind a damn where we can control it. That in a nutshell is the history of the United States and North America for the most part. If it wasn't for a few dedicated sportsmen with the foresight to see what was/is happening we would all live in an asphalt and concrete jungle, just so the rich could get richer. The best thing any of us can do is to introduce a child to the outdoors and pray they find part of what we do there.
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Well if I were a rapist, murderer, or thief I know where I would go for the evening. A whole apartment complex with no self defense. Perrrrrrrfect!!!!!!!
People forget the total value of the second amendment. Things like protect your home, provide your family with protein sources, grass roots militia, and even the frivolous sport.
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I understand your frustration and can relate. I rented for more than 10 years due to getting transfered every 3 or so years. One place my wife and looked at in rural Wisconsin the owner had a long list of "not in this house". We passed. We looked at another that said pets welcome and when the owner asked what kind of pets we had, I honestly told him 2 hunting retrievers. He then told me he doesn't like big dogs so we can't have them there. I explained that they are well trained hunting dogs, not run-a-muck muts. I even offered to bring them out and introduce them to him so he could see what they are capable of. Still no. Kinda sucked cause that house sat on 400 acres in WI and included hunting rights.
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I moved to rural Oklahoma from Dallas to get away from the antis and hope to stay away from that mentalaty for a while anyway. Met a woman who does not hunt, but realizes the man is the hunter and provider and has no problems with my weapons or hunting.
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while we are venting here, my wife just called me, she's out doing some shopping. Told me this Monday is "Green Day", needs to get some stuff for the kids.
I look at the calendar: St. Patrick's Day.
She tells me "they can't call it that, so they call it Green Day, so nobody is offended"
I'm thinking of starting my own country. It's not just "hunting", everything seems to be a topic that we need to be protected from, etc. (sigh)
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Guys, while as frustrated about the things you have discussed as the rest of you, I think this thread has run it's course and is not directly related to traditional bowhunting.