Trad Gang
Main Boards => The Shooters FORM Board => Topic started by: 1Longbow on May 06, 2018, 01:30:51 PM
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As I age I notice my draw length shortening. Is there any type of exercise that would help increase it ? Thank you
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The short answer is yes.
My issues of reduced draw length were intertwined with shoulder degeneration and multiple surgeries leading to loss of strength. My shortened draw length came from form issues related to strength loss, but sometimes similar form issues arise without a physical cause:
1) Not extending my bow arm at the shoulder (scrunching a bit), and
2) Craning my neck forward a bit to hit the same anchor, even when I didn't scrunch my shoulder.
Exercises for my deltoids, triceps and posterior serratus muscles has helped quite a bit. I've also dropped draw weight to make shooting more comfortable and with hopes of extending the life of my 'original equipment' shoulders. And, I no longer use a swing draw, because that loads my shoulder joint that has no cartilage remaining.
Your solution may well be different than mine. My suggestion is that in addition to specific muscles, like deltoids, general 'core' strengthening makes a noticeable difference.
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Depends. I'm 73, and fighting the strength loss battle every day. It's a battle I know I’ll eventually lose, but not until I have to. I fight on two fronts: aging inevitably results in a loss of strength, and frankly, most of the time I’d rather sit in a chair and drink coffee and read the newspaper.
The reason I said “depends” is that your body may be shrinking a bit with age. If your draw length is getting shorter because of that, I think you just have to live with it. But if it's just attitude and strength, those are battles you can fight.
I don't normally use a clicker, but I have two fairly lightweight bows set up with clickers, a right-handed one and a left-handed one. These are my exercise bows. I have the clickers set so I really have to expand to make them click. I hold at full draw for 20 seconds with each bow, 5 reps. I can make the clicker click when I first draw the bow, but after a few seconds I can hear it click again as I begin to lose tension. My goal is to delay that second click as long as I can. After the 20 seconds, I get to shoot the arrow, which is kind of my reward, and it is fun to see how well I can shoot after holding for 20 seconds. If I’m shooting outside, the dog knows she gets the frisbee thrown for her a few times in between holds, so I usually feel a frisbee bumping against the back of my leg after I shoot the shot.
Attitude wise, I just try to make it as fun as possible, so it doesn't get to be too much of a chore. Guilt also helps.
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McDave.. that has been a concern of mine. My big question is should I reduce poundage and would that help me with that issue? I ve been exercising with stretching the bow to full draw , hold two , three seconds then letting down slowly
Not sure if this going to help . As I am working on draw mechanics as well. I am 70 and have beginings of sore shoulder (bow side). I have to be careful...
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Stand up straight when you shoot. ;-)
No kidding - a more formal upright "closed" form (legs in line with the target) will add inches.
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McDave.. that has been a concern of mine. My big question is should I reduce poundage and would that help me with that issue? I ve been exercising with stretching the bow to full draw , hold two , three seconds then letting down slowly
Not sure if this going to help . As I am working on draw mechanics as well. I am 70 and have beginings of sore shoulder (bow side). I have to be careful...
Yes, poundage is a factor. You measure your draw length with a light weight bow, say 15 pounds, and that draw length should be the same until you reach a weight where you can't draw that far. For me, my draw length is 28” until I get to about 53-54 pounds, and then I can't draw that far anymore. That means I shouldn't be shooting a bow more than about 50 pounds, unless I build up my strength, because I’m just kidding myself. In other words, any bow I shoot that is more than 50 pounds is a waste, because I’m only going to draw it to 50 pounds anyway, and I would shoot a 50 pound bow more accurately because I’m able to pull it to full draw.
At our age, or any age, one should be aware of any aches and pains. If an ache or pain doesn't go away in a day or so, you should stop doing whatever caused it, until it does go away, before it can become chronic. I'm still shooting at 73 because I followed that advice, and I hope if I keep following it I will still be shooting at 83.
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So I should probably take a trip to BPS and pull out A lightweight youth bow @
15 -20 lbs and draw my normal draw length of 26"?? I could probably draw out to 27" /28".
I am 5'9" medium build . When I extend my hands out front palms touching it's 26" on the dot.
Someone here mentioned the target stance as adding inches to my draw. I could conceivably draw 27"-28".
I started out years ago with 28" bow and discovered after going to a few shoots that I was way overdrawn. I was coming off from shooting a compound. Thanks.
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One other thing- I am /was very comfortable with bows in the midd to low 40#. But recently a couple of weeks ago discovered that I was using a floating anchor which I know is a big no -no. I was doing this to compensate from loss of accuracy . See my trailer I posted earlier. Thanks 🙏
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The measurement you get by extending your hands out is a ballpark estimate. It may not be your actual draw length. Your actual draw length is the distance from the valley of the nock to the back of the bow, when you have drawn and anchored at full draw. It does not change with bow poundage. The only thing that changes with bow poundage is your ability to pull the bow back. At a certain poundage, you may not be able to draw the bow all the way to your draw length, which means that bow is too heavy for you. It may be that you can get stronger and eventually pull that bow, or you may learn to pull more with your back muscles and be able to pull that bow to your actual draw length, but you can't do it right now and you risk injuring yourself if you force yourself to do it.
First, you should learn to draw with your back muscles. Then, if you want to draw a heavier bow, you should either overdraw a bow you can handle, as Tony suggested, or draw and hold a bow you can handle for an extended time, as I do. Trying to draw a bow too heavy for you with your arm muscles is an invitation to injury.
Once you learn how to draw a bow properly, and have a bow you can draw and anchor at your draw length, then you can experiment with differences in the way you draw the bow that might change your draw length. Rod Jenkins is famous for his classes, where he teaches people to expand more than they were doing before the class, and maybe add 1/2” to their draw length. This of course adds power to their shot. Standing upright perpendicular to the target, as Stumpkiller suggests, might add 1/2” to your draw length, if you weren't already doing that. Some people do the opposite: they choose to stand with a more open stance and shorten their draw length by 1/2” because they feel they are more accurate with an open stance and a shorter draw length. These are all tweaks you can do to fine tune your shot after you have the basic form down.
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Stand up straight when you shoot. ;-)
No kidding - a more formal upright "closed" form (legs in line with the target) will add inches.
Respectfully I have to 100% disagree if your form is correct ....form is from the waist up it has nothing to do with your legs or whether you're standing straight up... I proved this in the Bowhunters of Tradgang DVD on video....once again standing straight up has nothing to do with proper form if you're achieving the magic T as I call it.... check out the form clock thread on the shooters forum as a matter of fact that's where I'm moving this thread to
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You should also be aware that you can take a lightweight bow, say 15#, and draw it back a foot past your draw length by using your arm muscles. That doesn't mean that your draw length is a foot more than you thought it was; it just means you know how to haul back on the bow with your arms. No matter how easy it is to pull a 15# bow, if you are drawing the bow correctly with your back muscles, you won't be able to pull it past your draw length because you have pulled around in a J shape so that backward motion has stopped and the force is all between your shoulder blades and your spine.
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Drawing with my back muscles is still elusive to me. My mental concept is that my back cannot extend or act a pulley to any object ,it can only hold you upright maybe lend support to your trapezoid area . I just cant see how a back can pull..
Been studying intently Arnie Moes videos on basic
Drawing mechanics. Never realized that a simple task of pulling a lever( bow) was subject to so many. mechanics. I am deep into the weeds here.
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I am going to try some light bows and see what you mean. I saw Arnie on Moe
twaching a guy with an elastic band and showing him to keep to his hand limp rlike a dishrag. "Lining up my bones "made sense but not to the point where my bow arm was ram rod straight out fully extended. There appears to be a slight bend in Arnies arm as he draws. So I take it to mean that my skeletal structure will line up in its own individual way if I relax and feeling my draw. I don't think it should be a wrestling match. I should be able to stretch into my back at my draw. Right now I am at a point where I have to consider getting lighter in my holding weight. That way I might begin to feel the steps that are being taught.. sorry for so many posts..
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Yes, I expect that is the problem. It is a common problem with shooting the trad bow, maybe the most common problem. Most people really can't feel their back muscles in the same direct way they can feel their biceps. Of course you feel the pain when you injure them, but not so much in general use.
Volume 3 of Masters of the Bare Bow has a good section by Rod Jenkins on form that you might want to check out. There is also a section with Darryl Quidort on use of the Formaster. This is a device for reminding you rather abruptly whether or not you are using your back muscles. In general, you start pulling the arrow back with your arm, but almost immediately transfer the force to your back muscles. Your drawing elbow starts off sticking out to the side of the bow, and toward the end of the draw as your back muscles contract, it moves around behind the bow to line up with the arrow. This is the J shape: the elbow moving back at the top of the J and then around so the elbow ends up behind the arrow at the bottom of the J.
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Anybody have a light 20lb bow that could sell?
Are the takedown Samiks and Bear Paws worth it? Thanks
They offer additional limbs that allow one to upgrade as bow weight increases right?
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A 20# bow would be useful if you have a grandchild or someone who might shoot with you sometimes. If not, I’m sure you could handle a 25-30# bow just fine, since you probably want to go back to your 40# bow when you can.
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I checked out some PSE Razorbacks at BPS. I tried a 25 # in the indoor range
And noticed how much more relaxed my draw felt. It was awkward as I have never shot a recurve since age 10 . The price point was very much to my liking as well as the fact that I could upgrade to 30 , 35 & 40 lb limbs. For training I can't see how it would best bad deal on the short term. I really need to correct my draw and figure out the rear shoulder/ elbow alignment along with the transfer of power to my mythical back.
I also checked a 30# and the draw was more solid feeling but with a very slight tremble at the hold..
Good idea??
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Yes, I have a PSE Razorback for my grandchildren and other guests who want to shoot. Seems to work fine for that purpose, and I’m sure it will work fine for your purpose as well. They actually make PSE Razorback arrows, 1000 spine, which you can find at Lancaster and probably other places. May be overkill for your purpose, but they sure do zip along when shot out of a 25# bow! If I were you, I would start with the 25#, as that seems to be the one you’re most comfortable with.
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Thanks! I believe i will. They are ridiculously cheap and the added option getting work up limbs makes it more possible. Quality and durability issues may occur but I think its what I will benefit from in the near term. :)
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Will GT Entradas 600 full length shoot well out of this setup? (31") Reason for asking is my draw length mght possibly go to 27" considering the light weight and
Recurve vs longbow design? I don't want to be hampered by too short of an arrow
as I am attempting to get a better draw and anchor per discussions on this thread. There is no arbitrary anchor point at this point and I want to reprogram
30 " safe ?
The Razorback arrows you mentioned are safe only up to 26 1/2"( my draw length with longbow). Thanks .
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I assume you’re talking about the 28” Razorback arrow. I don’t know why a 28” arrow would only be safe drawn to 26 1/2”. Normally you would think a 28” arrow would be safe if drawn to 27”. But PSE knows their products better than I do. I can tell you that those are the same arrows I use in my beginning archery classes with Samick Sage 25# bows, which are very similar to the PSE you are buying. When I’m demoing shots for the class I commonly draw to my normal draw length of 28”, and some of the students might draw that far too, although most are too young to draw that far. After many hundreds of shots, we have never had one break, although we have lost a few when students shoot over the backstop into the weeds. But you have to use your own judgment on that.
Since the 600 Entradas will be over spined for the PSE, it is actually a good thing that you are leaving them at 31”, since that will weaken the spine a little. Performance may not match the Razorback arrows, but should work fine for form practice.
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I was concerned about Starshooter's comment regarding PSE Razorback arrows, because our club teaches a youth course where we use them, and I didn't want us to be doing anything that wasn't safe. I called Lancaster, where I bought them, and they told me that there was no 26.5” limit on the arrows. They are made to be shot from bows of 30# or less, and as long as that limit is observed, they can be drawn to the full 28”.
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McDave, my bad I must have gotten that info from another supplier as was seaching around for them. The numbers got muddied up somehow. Of course you
Pull right to the back of the point ( in most cases) .
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Can pull back to the point .. as long as it doesn't exceed the bow's capacity.
Sorry.
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No prob, Charles. Glad I don't have to start checking everybody's draw length before they shoot those arrows! What is the max draw length of your PSE bow?
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25# @28". My initial draw when trying it out was 26 1/2" . Natural ingrained anchor point . When I get the arrows I am going to work on isolating my back muscles , hopefully "feel" the anchor and from there always draw and hold at that point no matter what poundage I end up with. Hopefully between 35-40 lbs.. 30 lbs will probably be my final poundage . But I will see ..
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I am now shooting the PSE Razorback 25# recurve along with the smallest diameter
arrows 1000 I have ever seen. So far, it's been good.and fun.The emerging question now is what is my anchor point/ draw length??? I can hold for 4-6 seconds at but at what DL ? Thanks I am anchoring past the corner of my mouth... feel the feathers.
Another question .. what is a "J "draw.??? What does it look like??
I have heard that my "natural"draw length is 26 1/2 ", is it a sin to be using a bow that can be pulled past it's rated capacity? Some bows I hit a wall (stack) others I can pull effortlessly to a draw point say 27" even 28" I d like very much to solve this as it's been troubling me for years. Thanks. :archer2:
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According to this review, the Razorback can safely be drawn to 30”, so I don’t think you’re going to have any problem with that.
https://targetcrazy.com/archery/gear/recurve/pse-razorback-recurve-takedown-bow-review/ (https://targetcrazy.com/archery/gear/recurve/pse-razorback-recurve-takedown-bow-review/)
Again, it’s not the bow or your strength that determines your draw length. If you are drawing the bow correctly, using your back muscles, you won’t be able to draw any further than your actual draw length. If you are drawing the bow incorrectly, using your arm muscles, you can draw a lightweight bow quite a bit further than your actual draw length. However, maximum accuracy and consistency occurs when you are drawing the bow correctly, using your back muscles.
If you determined that your natural draw length was 26 1/2” by any method other than by drawing a bow correctly to full draw, then it is only an approximation. Once you determine your actual draw length, it might change slightly due to training, age, bow weight, etc., but probably not more than 1/2” or so.
The J draw is a concept to help you visualize a draw using back muscles. It is just a concept, not an actual J. The J is more or less the path your elbow takes when drawing the bow correctly. As you start to draw the bow, your elbow moves back in more or less of a straight line. As you get close to full draw, your back muscles contract about as much as they can, you can feel your shoulder blade moving toward your spine, and backward movement of the arrow almost comes to a stop. Even though there is little or no movement of the arrow backward, your elbow continues to move around behind the arrow, which is represented by the bottom of the J. The J shaped draw is a concept like your elbow closing a door behind you; if it helps you to draw the bow correctly, use it. If it is just confusing, then don’t worry about it.
From previous posts, I gather that you have put a lot of effort into this over many years. I commend your tenacity, but you may have gone as far as you can on your own. I’ll bet that an hour with somebody such as Arne, Rod, or Rick would straighten you out in a hurry, so that might be the next thing you should think about doing.
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Dang straight! Where does Arnie reside? I m from TX. I would nothing than to have just 1 hr of his instruction. Thanks!
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Star, I'm about as far away from you as we can get and still be in the USA. Northern Minnesota, about an hour driving time from the Canadian border. IF ever up this way, we can get together if you want.
Arne
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Thanks! I will keep that in mind.
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I am currently working with a 25# recurve concentrating onmy draw & anchoring.
Starting to like the recurve.. shooting full draw and holding for 5-6 seconds. My anchor point seems to have moved upwards my cheek bone head straight up. Again , I working close into the target .. my bow arm extending straight to the target the grip is
The "V "of my thumb and forefinger. Very easy with low poundage. I will be submitting another video trailer latter to review and share.
I am thinking after all is done that my final weight will be in the mid to low thirties at my proper DL. I will soon see.Thanks.
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I am shooting with the 25# recurve and skinny carbons . I feel very comfortable drawing & holding at full draw 27". My plan is to fully imprint/ reprogram to that Dl and hold at least 5-10 seconds( longer?)
This morning I shot 5 rounds and the arrows keep landing on the right side of the target bullseye .Try as I did to align the sight window to the center they flew right of the center by sometimes 10" Am I gripping the bow wrong or is my elbow alignment incomplete? Or the arrows might be too weak for my draw
My son is coming sometime this week and I am gonna get a movie made. I am flummoxed! :banghead:
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Yep!! Video time. Arrows hitting to the right could be MANY things. Many will be quick to suggest spine but that is actually the least probable cause. SOMETHING in your shot execution is MOST LIKELY the reason. But at this time, we really need to see not just speculate on descriptions.
Arne
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How long you hold at full draw is up to you. Many good shooters snap shoot, meaning they release as soon as they reach full draw. Others hold and aim. In our style of shooting, most people who hold and aim hold for about 2 seconds at full draw. It is hard for me to imagine how you could be very effective hunting if you needed to hold for 5 seconds. However, holding for long periods can be an effective strength building exercise.
What is essential is coming to full draw and anchoring, every time you shoot.
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https://youtu.be/anQQmmman4M
Hope this works.
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I see nothing here that really leaps out at me to cause your right hits. There are some areas I'd critique from an execution stand point but again, nothing that really stands out as a cause of your problem. I see you are shooting that bow off the shelf, but the Sage is a very center cut bow. Have you tried building out the strike plate a little?? Add a layer or two of something to move the vertical (strike plate) surface to the left and see what happens.
Set the bow up so you can stand behind it and visually line up the string with the center of the limbs with an arrow nocked, on the shelf and against the strike plate. With an arrow nocked, the position of the point should appear to be JUST to the left of the string. IF it (the point) is to the right or centered on the string, build that strike plate out (thicker) to get that point to the left of the string line. See if that helps and let us know.
Arne
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Is my elbow aligned? How about the chest expansion? Release ok?
I see that the point disappears behind the riser indicating a 28" draw
Should I discount that as I am working with 25# now? My biggest concern are the shoulder/ back mechanics . I am trying to reprogram and reset the draw. No more short drawing.
The bow is a PSE Heritage . Thanks.
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I’ve read enough of Arne’s critiques to know that he can see things most of us can’t. Based on his comments, and my own observations, you seem to be on the right path.
I can’t tell if you’re using the PSE Razorback arrows, but the fletching looks the same. These are really thin arrows, and Arne’s comment on maybe needing some strike plate buildout could be on point. Just add enough thick leather so that the thin arrows are centered about where regular sized arrows would be centered.
I remember that you are an ASL shooter. Whenever I try shooting an ASL, my arrows go way left. Whenever one of my ASL shooting buddies tries to shoot a cut past center bow, their arrows go way right. One of them likes to shoot both, and builds out the strike plates of his cut past center bows to a ridiculous degree to get his arrows to hit the center. I’ve just decided I have to pick one or the other, and not try to shoot both. If you plan to continue to shoot ASL’s, you may just have to accept this, and may even have some trouble with shooting to the left when you switch back. It’s just a mental adjustment; nothing to do with your form or the bow.
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Is my elbow aligned? How about the chest expansion? Release ok?
I see that the point disappears behind the riser indicating a 28" draw
Should I discount that as I am working with 25# now? My biggest concern are the shoulder/ back mechanics . I am trying to reprogram and reset the draw. No more short drawing.
The bow is a PSE Heritage . Thanks.
You have a very static release, which while not necessarily "wrong" (many shoot very well with it!!) I am not a fan. IMO a shooter cannot REALLY expand while still maintaining that string hand static (non moving) on the face. In order to keep the hand from moving, a shooter must flex muscles in the front of the body to stop movement. Doing that either kills or at least neutralizes back tension, kind of making it ineffective. AGAIN! MY opinion and many really do shoot well with a static release!
I'll point out though the "shock wave" that you can see running through your body during the release. That is caused by stopping the string hand from moving and really is an unnecessary reaction to the shot.
So to answer your questions directly; elbow OK at full draw, no chest expansion, release marginal due to the static nature. You MAY or MAY NOT be using BT but it looks like it is negated at the point of release.
All this is based on my way of teaching and shooting. There other very legitimate techniques but they don't generally "play well together" or in a mix and match conglomeration.
Arne
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It sounds like I need to "pull through" the draw ? Sometimes I can feel the shoulders swing back towards my back and my chest expands which is good right?
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In my book, that's what you want to do. The release is caused by further activation of the (string) shoulder , not the hand so then, when the string goes and the bow weight is gone, your natural reaction is for that string hand to move straight back along the cheek. Like you are in a tug of war with the string and then when suddenly gone, the string side naturally recoils back.
Arne
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There are two styles of releasing the arrow we generally see in the United States: the dynamic release and the static release. The style more often taught is the dynamic release, which is the style used by Arne and Rod Jenkins. Probably more people end up using this style than the static release, which is the style I use and Rick Welch uses. Hopefully the reason more people end up using the dynamic release is because it works better for them, and not because they didn't ever learn the static release, or because they were convinced the dynamic release is the “right” way to shoot. Because the only reasonable way to make a choice is what works best for you. Biomechanical efficiency sounds logical, but what really matters is what puts arrows in the target. A bumblebee logically should not be able to fly, but it does.
I started archery late in life after I got too old to rockclimb. I had the luxury of being able to read and watch a lot of videos, wanted to pick the best way I could to learn to shoot the traditional bow. I spent a lot of time learning and practicing the dynamic release before I met Rick Welch. While Rick is a great guy, the ONLY reason I switched to the static release is because I shot better that way.
I agree with 99% of what Arne says, and believe he was very fair in his evaluation of the two styles. I agree 100% with his statement that the two don't mix well together. If I had listened and applied everything Rick told me in the first lesson, I probably wouldn't have had to take two more. Most of the time spent in the two other lessons was Rick getting me to unlearn parts of the dynamic release I was trying to mix with the static release, and to relearn parts of the static release that I had glossed over. Arne's statement that it is necessary to lock off the back muscles at the end of the draw when using the static release is correct; I don't think most dynamic release shooters know that, and many people who quit using the static release probably didn't learn that.
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My question now is how do I counteract the "shockwave" after the release
which supposedly neutralizes the back tension that I am slowly acquiring ??
Thanks.
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This is a video of Rick shooting in his prime:
https://youtu.be/Qpwu1xNoQjs (https://youtu.be/Qpwu1xNoQjs)
You can see that he doesn't have any shockwave.
For a good example of shooting with a dynamic release, see any of Arne's vídeos, or Rod Jenkins section of vol 3 of Masters of the Bare Bow.
Whether because it comes naturally to you or because you were taught that way, you seem to have a good start on the static release. Whether you continue that way or not is up to you. Either way is a fine way to shoot.
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Wow! that group of arrows he shot is like a cluster of hornets packed in their nest. Un believable....that is what I d like to see in my own shooting well, a fraction of that anyways. How do I get tighter groups?
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Rick is totally self taught, never had a lesson in his life, and had a body strong enough to stand up to shooting many hundreds of arrows every day when he was training.
I don't think either one of us can do that, so we have to find a different way. We weren't born with the genes to be a Tom Brady or a Rick Welch. Face it, you or I will probably never stack 5 arrows into a target at that distance that are all close to touching each other. But what we can both do is learn to improve. You and I are about the same age with the same capabilities (or lack thereof). If you accept a discipline, whether Rick's or Rod's or Arne's, and practice it faithfully every day, you will get to the point where your friends no longer congratulate you on bullseyes, because you make them too often to be worth commenting on.
The thing that makes Rick or Tom special is their ability to be aware, on a physical level, of what their bodies are doing. You mentioned that you were becoming aware of your back muscles. What if you started at that level, and were able to expand your awareness by a factor of 100 or 1,000? Just like you are beginning to be aware of your back muscles where you weren't aware before, you can learn to be aware of all the other things that are important in your shot. You do this by turning off the analytical part of your mind (the part that thinks in words) and focusing on the part of your mind that feels things. It is one thing to be born with these capabilities, but it is just as much fun to learn to use them, even if we never reach the level of those who were born with them, because you can improve more than you ever dreamed possible.
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Yes it is fun to learn through experience.. I am still wondering why I got bows built to 26" draw. I am now pulling a youth recurve 25# at 28" and I know that once I go up in weight that my DL will decrease . Should I take the present Dl with a grain of salt and wait til i up my poundage to 35# ? What is important to me is the back muscle isolation and feeling the lock of my drawing elbow as I reach full draw. I have been studying the videos Annie and Rick Welch who has the static release you speak of. The "rotational draw" is still a mystery .
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"... I know that once I go up in weight that my DL will decrease..."
It shouldn't!! But for many, when they are just using muscle to pull the bow back, they can't really set or find a consistent draw length and then it MAY change with bow weight. Even when your hand is on the same place on your face, different weights will tend to make you collapse your shoulders or arm position making the draw length SEEM to change. That's why I like the rotational draw and bone on bone structure for the archery shot. If the bones get lined up, your draw length can NOT change.
You asked earlier about how to reduce the "shock wave" at your release. That is a function of evening out the forces applied to your body between your bow hand and string hand and through the bones. It is really a RESULT of form and shot execution and not something that you can specifically address directly.
The rotational draw is pretty easy to learn when working with someone that knows what it is but fairly difficult when trying to learn it on your own. Besides my videos, you may want to check out a lesson I gave a guy. It is posted on DIY sportsman. Another is found on Archery 101. All on You Tube. AND there are others.
Arne
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Terrible shooting this morning.. I took some rear view videos along with back side videos.. they show no back / shoulder contractions. And the the chest expansion is noticeably absent. I won’t trouble you with needless vids but I am discouraged, I am not overbowed and I am trying to establish the rear elbow at full draw and release. Bad day. :deadhorse:
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I wondering if there are any exercises or form master that would enable me to get this right??? Good idea?or overkill? Thanks.
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It would be useful for you to review volume 3 of Masters of the Bare Bow, in which Rod Jenkins spends a lot of time on back tension, and explains the Formaster. Better would be for you to get a schedule of courses he is planning and attend one. Feel free to get all 5 volumes of Masters of the Bare Bow if you want to. I look at the whole set again every year or so.
Another exercise you can try is the wall exercise. You find a wall or a pole or a post where you can put a target not too far away. You stand close to the wall or the post so that when you draw the bow, the back of your elbow touches the post at full draw. You press against the post with your elbow and maintain the pressure until after you shoot the arrow. The only way you can do this is through back tension. I've never tried to do this long distance with anyone, so I don't know if I’ve explained it well enough that you can do it. It's easy in person.
An instructor can do this exercise by pressing against the elbow of the student at full draw and telling him to press back against the instructor's hand.
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That sounds like an isometric exercise and I can see where it might help with
form collapse after the release.. I will definitely give it a try.
I was going to ask about the “ Masters of the BareBow” seeing that there are 5 DVDs
Which one would be the best to start with? Thanks.
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Get Vol 3!! All are good but Vol 3 has what I think you need.