Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: buckeyebowhunter on July 21, 2019, 06:17:16 PM
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What's up guys, was out shooting my widow in the yard today and about 20 shots in i draw back and my string literally pops off the bow i believe off the top limb nock. Scared the hell out of me but the bow looks fine. At first i thought maybe the limb was twisted but they both look fine and i strung it back up and it looked like both limbs were tracking straight. I've shot traditional bows for 15 years and I've never had this happen. Nor heard of it happening. Does anyone have a clue as to what could have caused this and how to keep it from happening. I can't imagine having this happen when drawing on a deer lol. Bythe way the bow is only a few months old. Thanks!
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Possible that the string was not seated well in both string grooves.
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Thanks for the reply Roy. Im not questioning your expertise but i find it odd that it wasn't seated, I was actually shooting the bow yesterday with no problems and just left it strung over night. Do you think it's possible to torque the bow so much that it would pull the string off the grooves?
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I thought you just strung it up.
Take a lot of torque to do that.
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No i had it strung from the day before.
And i was thinking the same thing on the torque. Puzzles me and makes me scared to shoot it.
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Have someone watch as you draw it to see what is happening at the tips. Wear safety glasses.
Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk
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Two things I know that can cause that. The string not on right or something is happening when you draw. As mentioned have someone watch when you draw. If it happens again I would be calling BW they may want to check it out for you.
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Wonder if the wrong brace height would cause that.
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Possibilities:
Partial string break
string not seated in groves
limb twisted
twisting string hand on draw (only seen it with very low poundage bows)
ultra low/high brace height (way outside recommendations)
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I've seen this before. It's usually caused by torquing the string and/or the bow enough that the limbs twist at full draw and dump the string. If the limbs are not twisted at brace height now, they soon will be if this is continued. To avoid this, consciously rotate your string hand in a clockwise direction (RH shooter) before you start your draw until you can feel pressure against your ring finger from the string, and try to maintain this orientation during the draw. Hold the bow very loosely in your bow hand, gripping only with your thumb and index finger. Sight down the bow every time you string it from each end. If either end is twisted, twist it back in the opposite direction until it is straight. It will probably stay straight as long as it's not torqued or strung incorrectly.
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What Mcdave said
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Also check the string grooves and make sure they are all cut in deep enough.
A too low of brace height could cause it also.
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I have had this happen on a Widow no less. It was a Demo bow I had got in to try out. Put it together, strung her up, looked her over, all looked good.
Went out back started shooting and maybe a couple dozen shots in drew back and at release felts the most awful handshock and weird sound.
Without moving my bow arm, (not sure if it was from fear of seeing a shatter bow or bodily harm) I surveyed the situation.
No noticeable bow damage or bodily injury 😊 just a newer faster heart rate.
Had to do a grid search of the yard to find the string, and I also caught it on video as I was filming my shooting for form improvements.
When strung back up the upper limb had a noticeable twist that I don’t remember being there when putting it together.
After reviewing the film it appeared I was torquing and pulling the string away from my face at release instead of straight back. An issue I still battle today. The bow was a 50#@28” draw.
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That is a real coincidence. I was warming up for a 3D at a local club yesterday, when I heard a loud whack next to me.
There a guy stood with his longbow in his hand, and the string hanging from the bot. limb. It came off when he released his arrow. I had never seen that before. He said that he didn't either. I did notice that the string loops looked pretty big on both ends. He strung it back up, and checked fistmele, and proceeded to shoot again with no further problem.
The only thing that seemed odd, was that he had very little twist in his string.
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Many archers do not realize what the string does when it is released. If you watch one on high speed film, you will see the oscillations the string goes through. Wouldn't surprise me if there was some problem with the string (length, not twisted enough etc.) and it just simply jumped out of the groove or some such.
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It's just weird boys, i haven't had the string long enough for it to be worn and it was furnished with the bow when i got it from black widow. The limbs are 48#@28. Which is the lightest limbs i own. The only thing i can think is that maybe not being used to the light limbs i might have induced too much torque.
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I would consider all the things that everybody has suggested, but I would still consult with BW.
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Get a different string and make sure your limbs are not twisting when you draw.
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Did it come off as you shot, or as you were drawing back?
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As he was drawing back.
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Is it possible for a recurve limb to collapse side ways while being drawn? Even if there is a bit of draw hand torque, I cannot see a limb buckling sideways and dumping the string. Unless the loops were way to big for the limbs and it half jumped off on the previous shot.
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I’ve seen it happen on a friend’s recurve. 47# 62” one piece recurve made by a well known bowyer. Can’t remember anything about the string loops, but it was the same string it came with and I don’t remember anything unusual about the string. He described the problem to me, and the first thing I did was to string the bow and check for limb twist. No limb twist evident at brace height. Then we went shooting together and about half way around the course the string popped off as he was drawing the bow. I know he was torquing the string because I had tried a half dozen times to get him to quit doing that, but he didn’t seem to get the concept, so I pretty much gave up. After this happened, I demoed for him how I could make the string move out of the string grooves by drawing slowly with string torque, stopping short of drawing it until the string popped completely off the bow. Funny thing is it never did show up at brace height, although I assume it eventually would have.
It is more common with the kids I teach with Genesis compound bows. If a kid torques the string on a Genesis very much, it’s going to pull the string out of the pulley. Probably has happened 4-5 times over the years.
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Thanks for the replies guys. McDave i am almost certain it is from torque. No way would i have not seen the string coming out of the grooves on previous shots. As I mentioned this is one of the lightest bows i own on top of that the limbs on it are extremely skinny at the ends. I still would have never imagined i would torque so much that it would dump the string. I did end up calling black widow and they made a note of what happened in their files but said as long as the limbs aren't twisted there's really nothing else they can say but if anything else happens they said to give them a call. I will take the blame for this one but if it does it again it's going back to Nixa. I think what puzzles me the most is that I've owned widows for years and shot many that weren't mine and never experienced this :dunno:
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If draw hand torque can do that, for me, I would be a bit scared of it when hunting. I am not always very delicate when I take hunting shots.
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I've only seen this happen with two recurves. I assume it requires a combination of string torquing with certain recurves that have a low resistance to lateral limb tip movement. In the example I mentioned above, there was no persistent limb twist, meaning that the limb tips evidently sprung back into alignment after dumping the string. Given the large number of people I observe torquing the string, I would assume most recurves are not likely to have to this problem. I can't imagine this happening with a longbow, although anything is possible, I guess.
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Ever see Ken Becks demo on string torque? He used 7# limbs (yes a widow with special made 7 lbs limbs) to show what happens when you twist the string hand and /or the bow (bow hand) out of alignment.
Never saw him release from the torqued position....but I bet it very well would pop the string off.
I bet any recurve would with enough torque. Longbows might be harder to do...more resistance to torque but possible.
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Many moons ago i had a very lean tipped target bow. I could not shoot it with a glove, a little better with a Kantpinch, but with the Wilson Straptab that bow shot 290s indoors for me. At the time I thought the variance was vertical, could have been a nasty roundhouse torque as well. I have had two Bear takedowns try to eat me alive, magnesium risers blowing up, but I have never had a string jump off. If one has a very nice bow that is prone to something like posted above, what does one do about it?
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Pavan, what worries me the most is the hunting situation. Like someone previously mentioned perfect form isn't always the greatest or 100% applicable when a hunting shot presents itself. If something like this happens on a animal I'm not sure i could forgive myself or the bow. Hopefully it was a fluke! I'm going to keep shooting and see what happens. Since this happened I've probably put 100 arrows through it with no issues.
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The one thing that i noticed looking at old pictures of me shooting way back then, I tried to have a longer draw than i do now. From what i see now that i did not see then is that I was leaning back away from the shot and at anchor I was ring finger heavy and my palm was turning down at at anchor. That could cause some serious string torque. I have seen others display this palm turning downward with others going for as long a draw as they can stretch to. Of course, I cannot say one way or the other in your case, but it may be worth checking.
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Pavan, what worries me the most is the hunting situation. Like someone previously mentioned perfect form isn't always the greatest or 100% applicable when a hunting shot presents itself. If something like this happens on a animal I'm not sure i could forgive myself or the bow. Hopefully it was a fluke! I'm going to keep shooting and see what happens. Since this happened I've probably put 100 arrows through it with no issues.
Fortunately, the worst that would happen is that the animal would run away, since no arrow is going to leave the bow if this happens. I could forgive myself for that a lot easier than I could forgive myself for wounding an animal and not being able to find it.
In addition to what Pavan says, I frequently open my bow hand slightly at full draw and wobble my string hand back and forth slightly. If the bow doesn’t show any tendency to straighten up, and my wobble transmits itself freely to the bow, then I know I’m not torquing anything.
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McDave, that's a good point. My point was simply that getting close to the animal is what we work for and only for your equipment to malfunction would be heartbreaking. Like I said I'm not blaming my bow in this instance but I also have a tough time blaming myself entirely when I've never had it happen on any other bows. The hunting thing is kind of a tangent from my original post so I'll end it on that note. Ultimately it could be a form issue and I appreciate the input from everyone.
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Sometimes these things can be a blessing in disguise. If you learn to shoot without torquing the string, you will be a much better shot. I've said the same thing to people about cutting their tabs shorter to the point where their fingertips show above the tops of their tabs. If you learn to shoot by relaxing your fingers and letting the string push them aside rather than trying to open your fingers, you will be a much better shot. The sting on your fingertips if you forget is just a reminder. Unfortunately, having your bow unstring itself is a bit more of a reminder than most of us would want to have! If yours is a bow that is ultra-sensitive to torquing, it is important to keep the limb tips in alignment at all times. Check it every time you string the bow for sure, and every time you take it out to shoot for a while, until you are sure it is holding its alignment. Something like this might help you to keep it in perfect alignment: http://www.lancasterarchery.com/beiter-limb-tip-line-gauges.html
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Excellent advice. I appreciate all the input guys!