Post by: Ronnie Newell on October 23, 2019, 12:36:53 PM
What I'm getting at is that it seems to me that if enough of us stick together and with the right (influential) people involved we might possibly could get our own " little piece of the pie" back.
I know to this a lot of you may say that I shouldn't worry about what other hunters do. Just do my own thing but personally I see this turning into a commercial "snowball" that doesn't end well. At least not in our favor.
Just something to think about....
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Post by: Bowguy67 on October 23, 2019, 12:56:23 PM
Oklahoma I believe has Trad only areas. Don’t quote me on that it’s what I’ve been told. That could fly easier but I bet still resistance from some.
Post by: Captain*Kirk on October 23, 2019, 12:59:17 PM
Post by: bigbadjon on October 23, 2019, 01:09:56 PM
Post by: Wudstix on October 23, 2019, 01:12:33 PM
Post by: Cyclic-Rivers on October 23, 2019, 01:14:28 PM
Post by: Captain*Kirk on October 23, 2019, 01:16:45 PM
They don't get it.
Post by: Cyclic-Rivers on October 23, 2019, 01:18:46 PM
Rifle season
Bow season
Muzzleloader season
Trad season
Youth season
Disabled hunter season
X gun season
Next up
Air bow season
Atalatl season
Spear season
Pistol season
Circa 1885 weapons season
Female hunter season
Dog hunting season
At some point there won't be any time left and things will overlap anyway
Post by: Pine on October 23, 2019, 02:09:36 PM
You can shoot inline muzzleloaders and x bows.
🤯
Post by: pavan on October 23, 2019, 02:25:55 PM
Post by: Wudstix on October 23, 2019, 02:33:27 PM
Post by: BAK on October 23, 2019, 02:56:13 PM
Post by: Bully on October 23, 2019, 02:57:30 PM
Currently, by choice, I hunt with a crossbow. I don’t currently have the skill set to feel comfortable taking a shot at a living creature with a Trad set-up. I’m working on it, gonna take a few lessons and I’m blessed that a member here is able to offer advice to me when I ask. I’m currently working on a consistent draw cycle and will then start to tune arrows to my bow. But why would you want to alienate another bow hunter, simply because you don’t agree with my choice of weapon?
Further, with hunter numbers steadily declining we should be encouraging and including anyone that is interested in trying it in any way we safely can. We need the numbers to both continue to find conservation and to allow those of us with a bent toward hunting to be able to continue to engage in the activity. We truly don’t need any further deviceiveness within our small cadre.
I’m not saying all seasons should be mashed up. I believe that bow season should be separate from all gun seasons. It makes sense to me that way.
https://www.npr.org/2018/03/20/593001800/decline-in-hunters-threatens-how-u-s-pays-for-conservation
Post by: GCook on October 23, 2019, 02:58:41 PM
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Post by: Ronnie Newell on October 23, 2019, 03:52:51 PM
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Post by: KentuckyWolf on October 23, 2019, 04:10:40 PM
Post by: Sam McMichael on October 23, 2019, 04:31:42 PM
Post by: pavan on October 23, 2019, 05:17:15 PM
Post by: SlowBowKing on October 23, 2019, 05:37:55 PM
Post by: KentuckyWolf on October 23, 2019, 05:49:13 PM
My opinion: It would be easier to create a time machine and go back to the pre-compound days than get trad-only season most places. Love the idea, but don’t think it would ever happen. Modern hunting methods are getting more and more political approval, not less.
*modern killing methods.....hunting is not necessarily involved
Post by: SlowBowKing on October 23, 2019, 06:05:02 PM
*modern killing methods.....hunting is not necessarily involved
[/quote]
I’ll concede that point.
Post by: KentuckyWolf on October 23, 2019, 06:34:35 PM
Most DNR/FWD seem to be on a race to the bottom. Next to go will be magazine capacity while hunting....want to be inclusive, want to make it easy. 🙄
Post by: KentuckyWolf on October 23, 2019, 06:39:02 PM
Post by: Todd Cook on October 23, 2019, 07:43:48 PM
Post by: Sam McMichael on October 23, 2019, 07:54:01 PM
Post by: jsweka on October 23, 2019, 08:02:45 PM
I’m not sure what it is that the OP is trying to accomplish with a “trad only” season.
Currently, by choice, I hunt with a crossbow. I don’t currently have the skill set to feel comfortable taking a shot at a living creature with a Trad set-up. I’m working on it, gonna take a few lessons and I’m blessed that a member here is able to offer advice to me when I ask. I’m currently working on a consistent draw cycle and will then start to tune arrows to my bow. But why would you want to alienate another bow hunter, simply because you don’t agree with my choice of weapon?
Further, with hunter numbers steadily declining we should be encouraging and including anyone that is interested in trying it in any way we safely can. We need the numbers to both continue to find conservation and to allow those of us with a bent toward hunting to be able to continue to engage in the activity. We truly don’t need any further deviceiveness within our small cadre.
I’m not saying all seasons should be mashed up. I believe that bow season should be separate from all gun seasons. It makes sense to me that way.
https://www.npr.org/2018/03/20/593001800/decline-in-hunters-threatens-how-u-s-pays-for-conservation
Best post on this thread!!!!
Quit pissing and moaning and hunt.
Hunt with what you feel comfortable with.
Get a young person into hunting with any weapon.
We'll all be better off for it.
Post by: GCook on October 23, 2019, 08:10:07 PM
Other states it's very different in animal numbers and available land to hunt.
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Post by: Howitser on October 23, 2019, 08:40:48 PM
"Flintlock ignition, single barrel long guns mfg. prior to 1800 or a similar reproduction of a original muzzleloading single-barrel long gun 44 caliber or larger, or 50 caliber or larger hand gun using a single projectile. It is unlawful to use a telescopic sights. Late season flintlock hunters are permitted to take an antlered deer or an antlerless deer anywhere in the state with their unused antlered deer tag."
Years back Pa. even specified a patched round ball projectile.
I love this season.
Sorry this wandered from the original thread topic. A Trad season would be cool but I would be happy if xbows were removed from the archery season.
Post by: Silent footed on October 23, 2019, 09:12:29 PM
If you look at the history of bowhunting in this country, it was our modern bowhunting forefathers back in the 1920's-1950's lobbying for things like the privilege to wear camo, and have an extended month-and-a half long season under the argument that archery equipment was low impact and resulted in a negligible harvest of the animals (while simultaneously allowing maximal hunter satisfaction); and that this would not effect game populations in the least.
Their arguments were valid, and this is what enabled them to win the legal battles required to establish these seasons.
However, these arguments were made before even the advent of compounds. It was all recurve and longbows out there; and that's what the seasons were designed for. As far as I'm concerned, compounds don't even belong in our seasons, let alone crossbows.
The hard truth now is that the only result of allowing compounds into our seasons was a boost in the harvest rate of the animals, along with increasing the accessibility of the field to more hunters (including unethical hunters).
However, across the country, DNR's and DEC's see the boost in harvest rate and accessibility as a positive thing. And this is why they are increasingly willing to allow this. After all, there is a lot of pressure on these organizations by the public to REDUCE game populations. And this is what makes game management in 2019 different than in 1947. Back then, due to lack of management, there was a game DEFICIT. In some places (Indiana for instance), deer and turkeys were completely unheard of.
However, game deficits are not the case anymore. In most regions of the country, the deer population is considered to be "at or above carrying capacity", and that is also the case with bears in the catskills. I have spoken with Jeremy Hurst, and every year they are considering adding more and more counties to the early bear season to boost accessibility and increase the harvest rate.
The fact remains though, that our seasons were never designed with accessibility in mind. In fact, one reason these seasons were allowed in, say 1947, when game populations were at a LOW, was because people who possessed the dedication to become effective bowhunters were few-and-far-between and would not significantly affect game populations:
It used to be that a bowhunter was the most die-hard woodsman out there, with the willingness to dedicate his time and energy to practice year round and spend time learning about and building his own equipment, along with dedicating his time in the field to scouting all year. There were no mechanical bows to circumvent this amount of hard work and thus allow other hunters into the field. In fact, back then, there weren't even trail cameras to provide hunters with an avenue to bypass valuable (now-almost-forgotten) scouting techniques, either.
I would like to see state game management organizations devote resources to recruiting and introducing more (ethical) hunters into the field, be they gun hunters, bow hunters, or whatever. This is more of a long term fix to game management than attempting to use archery hunters as management tools, because frankly, we aren't management tools, and were never meant to be either; and it's not right to keep introducing more and more mechanical devices into our season because we don't harvest enough animals. We are supposed to have MINIMAL impact on game populations. Let's leave it that way. From a management perspective, state conservation organizations should attack the real problem: a decline in hunter numbers in general.
Post by: Cory Mattson on October 23, 2019, 10:10:50 PM
Guys the reason we are in this mess is NO state or National Bowhunting organization ever stood up for the equipment Bow seasons were created for. Not P&Y not PBS and not a single state. Leadership like that guaranteed failure. I fought the legalization of the compound in the 70s going up against the PA legislature and failed. I fought the compound crossbow early 90s in N.C. spoke to the state senate directly and WON. My state “bowhunters” were so feckless they continued to promote all the letoff that could be developed and 15 years later the NCWRC gave our NCBA a gift of allowing compound crossbows and stealing a second week from bowhunters and gave that to muzzlelosers. I’m DONE!
Post by: Silent footed on October 23, 2019, 11:21:41 PM
Post by: killzthemost on October 25, 2019, 12:45:44 AM
Post by: Kevin Dill on October 25, 2019, 08:37:10 AM
......and stealing a second week from bowhunters and gave that to muzzlelosers. I’m DONE!
Cory....”muzzlelosers”....really? You’re a better man than that.
Traditional-only seasons would be a losing proposition in many states, due to those states reliance on adequate deer kill numbers by archers. Longbow and recurve guys wouldn’t kill 20% of what the modern archery guys take in any allotted timeframe. There are fewer of us, and our success rates are lower due to the equipment we use. In states like Ohio....If you took 3 weeks from the modern archers and gave it to traditional archers, the resulting decrease in bow kills would benefit one group: the main firearms season. The state would need to hit the targeted kill numbers and guns would be the tool of choice. If you could wave a wand and make all modern archery weapons disappear, deer populations would expand rapidly and so would gun seasons. We would have less quiet time to hunt and more of us would be required to wear blaze orange. Unintended consequences would be severe. No thank you.
Post by: Ronnie Newell on October 25, 2019, 09:29:39 AM
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Post by: Kevin Dill on October 25, 2019, 09:35:32 AM
Post by: GCook on October 25, 2019, 09:44:21 AM
I agree it would be cool here in Texas if they would run a traditional archery season concurrent with the muzzle loader season. But with three months prior to that I have had the opportunity to hunt already that two weeks just doesn't seem too needed to me.
Now if you are hunting crowded public land or a small tract surrounded by crowded private property I could see feeling like the hunting pressure makes it more difficult.
But in the end the individual chooses his/her method. Feeling entitled just because one thinks their method is superior is unbecoming.
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Post by: Steve D on October 25, 2019, 10:30:05 AM
merit.
Post by: Captain*Kirk on October 25, 2019, 12:42:14 PM
It would be better to take an AREA and set it aside for Trad only archery.State Parks, or public hunting areas etc.,of reasonable size in various parts of a state. Thats where to start,asking for a special SEASON has little if any chance, especially after reading some of the comments posted. I would be all in support of an AREA set aside for "Trad" archery and think that would have some
merit.
I like this idea. :thumbsup:
Post by: KentuckyWolf on October 25, 2019, 01:20:08 PM
I think pursuing traditional only areas would be a more productive option...based on how most DNR or FWD are run.
Would think most states would be open to the idea of a traditional only WMA
Post by: Ronnie Newell on October 25, 2019, 01:57:09 PM
Me too!!It would be better to take an AREA and set it aside for Trad only archery.State Parks, or public hunting areas etc.,of reasonable size in various parts of a state. Thats where to start,asking for a special SEASON has little if any chance, especially after reading some of the comments posted. I would be all in support of an AREA set aside for "Trad" archery and think that would have some
merit.
I like this idea.
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Post by: Tooner on October 25, 2019, 02:48:39 PM
Post by: Wudstix on October 25, 2019, 02:58:09 PM
Post by: 30coupe on October 25, 2019, 03:58:27 PM
In Iowa you are supposed to have some sort of disability to use one, but as many as they seem to be selling here, I think a hangnail might just qualify. My only problem with crossbows is the idea too many neophyte hunters have that since it has a scope and shoots faster than a compound bow, you can shoot game at rifle-like ranges. At best they will miss a lot. At worst they will wound a lot.
Okay, I'm done. Time to go hunting! :wavey:
Post by: OkKeith on October 25, 2019, 06:10:10 PM
I can hunt with my longbows and recurves from October 1 through January 15 on any tag (as far as method of taking). Will there be other hunters in the woods with other methods of taking in their hands? Yes... not my worry. What is also not my worry is if they will "get my deer" or "have a better chance to kill something than I do". Much (not all, but a lot) of this kind of negative discourse comes from the human tendency to be selfish. It is along the lines of "I have chosen how I want to hunt and I don't want anyone less restricted than I choose to be for myself". If you spend your day afield all bound up by the idea that you have to "get yours before someone else gets it" my opinion is... you are out there for the wrong reason.
Wildlife Management Agencies DO NOT manage populations. They barely manage habitat due to a lack of funding. What they can manage is opportunity. Again, trying to make villains out of these hard working public servants (of which I was once one of) is unfair and petty. Hunters as a group demand much and provide little. A collective moan goes up whenever the cost of tags or access fees increases. As hunters we like to crow about how we pay our own way and are the ones who foot the bill for wildlife conservation in America but we sure gripe when the bill comes due or the plate is passed.
Politics, religion... hunting methods. Everyone thinks THEY have the right idea and everyone else not like them is wrong. I am here to tell you guys and gals that I hunt with other tools besides my longbows and recurves because I enjoy it. I suppose its a "Most Interesting Sportsman in The World" type of thing... I don't always archery hunt, but when I do I use a single string bow. We want to make out that everyone who hunts with something other than a single string bow is a bad guy, or evil. That just isn't so. It is simply dishonest to jump into the middle of the groupthink and pile-on with the internet because there is some measure of anonymity. My wife shoots hunting tools other than longbows or recurves. So what?
OkKeith
Post by: Roy from Pa on October 25, 2019, 06:57:52 PM
That was excellent and very very true. :thumbsup:
Post by: KentuckyWolf on October 25, 2019, 07:26:30 PM
I once sat in on a Commissioners meeting in which the fur bearer season was extended because one commissioner said they should because there were to many coons in his district (later said he knew this because they kept getting in his trash). The state fur bearer biologist said not to...didn’t know what it would do to populations and it’s feasibility would need study/review. The coon hunters association president jumped up and said his members would not want it....the pelts would not be good (super early start to season). It passed. All commissioners in favor. The fur bearer biologist about lost him mind...the wording on the amendment was so bad that it would include bobcats and otters. So, the reworded it at least....and passed it again.
Post by: OkKeith on October 25, 2019, 07:56:42 PM
You are absolutely correct Brandon... I have seen that sort of thing MANY times in my career and not just in wildlife and fisheries management but across the gamut of natural resources issues.
If KY's commission works anything like those I have worked for, Commissioners are appointed by the Governor (or at some level of elected official) and many times those appointments have much more to do with campaign donations than knowledge of sound management principles or ecological truth. That's is why (in my opinion) most Executive Directors of Fish and Game Agencies more than earn their money. They have to operate and be effective in both worlds. They have to play the political game well enough to keep their job and be technically savvy enough to make a difference on the landscape. Unfortunately chief among these skills is knowing what battles to fight and what to let go. The best of these professionals manage to get the job done and earn the respect of both employees and politicians.
The reason those "salesmen" have such a compelling argument has everything to do with the tax on hunting and shooting gear. If a new hunting tool is all the rage and selling hot, it generates more tax dollars on that equipment (which as consumers we actually pay for) and consequentially more federal funding for state agencies based on the number of licensed hunters. If that same tool gets more hunters in the woods (with newly purchased licenses)... double bonus.
My thought on your example is that the real fur trappers won't be putting any effort in to trap lines if the fur isn't saleable, so maybe there will be little impact on the resource.
As an aside... the truth to all those tax dollars has much more to do with recreational shooting (guns and ammo) than it does hunting equipment, just as the fishing side has more to do with recreational boats/ jet skis and the gas they buy than it does any fishing rod or crappie boat.
OkKeith
Post by: Ronnie Newell on October 25, 2019, 08:47:07 PM
Post by: OkKeith on October 25, 2019, 10:04:22 PM
First let me say how sorry and heartbroken I am for your loss of friends in fatal hunting incidents. As a Hunter Education Instructor and having been associated with the International Hunter Education Association for nearly twenty-five years I am all too familiar with the statistics on fatal hunting incidents across the United States.
I think you have misunderstood my meaning. You should hunt what and whenever the law allows you to do so. If you do not want to be in the woods during a season that allows hunting tools you are uncomfortable with I fully support that. What I have a hard time getting behind is the idea that since we want to use our favorite tools, it negates the same opportunity that others wish to have with other tools. My opinion is that choosing one hunting tool over (or in addition to) any other provides no moral or ethical superiority. I would love to have a stick bow only season here in Oklahoma but it is just not feasible for many reasons and those reasons are shared in all states. Me getting angry or nasty with hunters who choose to hunt differently than I do only diminishes my enjoyment of the hunt and my character.
Unfortunately poor hunter safety is not limited to those that hunt with firearms. I know that the Hunter Education folks in Louisiana are working as hard as we are here in Oklahoma to prevent future injury and death in the field.
OkKeith
Post by: Captain*Kirk on October 25, 2019, 10:18:30 PM
By all means, keep the debates going, and let's all keep our cool as we discuss the subject.
There are truly two sides to the coin.
Post by: RJonesRCRV on October 25, 2019, 10:50:06 PM
Basically I feel that there are already enough opportunities for government clowns to make more laws; we shouldnt give them more. Before you know it, theyll end up taking a half second to research trad archery and see someone say that fastflight is best, so B50 will be banned for hunting (or some other ridiculous idea). Keep it as simple as possible.
As far as opportunities for disabled hunters or kids, maybe give them the day before opening day, Sundays, or designated areas during certain times. But still keep it as simple as possible.
Post by: Bully on October 26, 2019, 07:26:19 AM
I’m not sure what it is that the OP is trying to accomplish with a “trad only” season.
Currently, by choice, I hunt with a crossbow. I don’t currently have the skill set to feel comfortable taking a shot at a living creature with a Trad set-up. I’m working on it, gonna take a few lessons and I’m blessed that a member here is able to offer advice to me when I ask. I’m currently working on a consistent draw cycle and will then start to tune arrows to my bow. But why would you want to alienate another bow hunter, simply because you don’t agree with my choice of weapon?
Further, with hunter numbers steadily declining we should be encouraging and including anyone that is interested in trying it in any way we safely can. We need the numbers to both continue to find conservation and to allow those of us with a bent toward hunting to be able to continue to engage in the activity. We truly don’t need any further deviceiveness within our small cadre.
I’m not saying all seasons should be mashed up. I believe that bow season should be separate from all gun seasons. It makes sense to me that way.
https://www.npr.org/2018/03/20/593001800/decline-in-hunters-threatens-how-u-s-pays-for-conservation
Best post on this thread!!!!
Quit pissing and moaning and hunt.
Hunt with what you feel comfortable with.
Get a young person into hunting with any weapon.
We'll all be better off for it.
That's a first.
Interesting development of this thread. Interesting to see how we all feel. How hunting is such a personal journey for those that choose to take the step.
Post by: Tooner on October 26, 2019, 09:13:11 AM
Further fragmentation only creates animosity and encourages fighting between camps, something hunters don't need any more of in this day and age.
Make your season whatever you want it to be and allow others to do the same. The fact that someone on the next piece is hunting with a crossbow or a compound doesn't affect my hunt in any way, shape or form.
Post by: Sam McMichael on October 26, 2019, 09:52:06 AM
However, I do like the idea of archery only areas. Yet a dispute will no doubt arise as to which areas are the best hunting places. Luckily, I can bowhunt during the rifle season, which greatly extends the hunting season and all areas are accessible. DNR might alternate the designated areas so that the "best" hunting grounds will be available to all on a rotating basis. The only issue there is helping hunters keep straight on which areas they are to use from year to year - it could be confusing. So, I'll go back to my original preference. Perhaps a simple distinction of non firearms season vs a firearms season, and let it go at that. I don't think we will ever come up with a universally acceptable plan, though/
Post by: pavan on October 26, 2019, 10:58:28 AM
Just like the manly man that was bragging here yesterday about shooting a buck at 65 yards with a crossbow. I asked, "why a crossbow, how did you get that permit?" Answer,"I have never shot a regular bow or a compound, I hurt my shoulder once." I see that more and more, people that have physical jobs that appear fit, strong and able, can do all kinds of lifting and over head work and have no problem doing their job, but come up with all kinds of excuses to get a crossbow permit. When admitting that he had never shot any kind of a bow before and never even tried to shoot a recurve or a compound recently, that was the obvious tell.
Post by: Bowwild on October 26, 2019, 12:32:35 PM
I have a trad-only season any time I want it. I can be 100 yards from son who is using his compound. My physically challenged best friend can be using his crossbow in the same woods.
Post by: RodL on October 26, 2019, 04:02:10 PM
Rodney
Post by: Wudstix on October 26, 2019, 05:20:52 PM
Post by: stagetek on October 26, 2019, 05:43:33 PM
Post by: Pine on October 26, 2019, 05:47:47 PM
I have about 11 acres that I am the only one hunting.
The only time I get any deer sighting is when the surrounding areas are being hunted by some of the aforementioned types of hunters.
But I will add that I have only one small white oak tree that just doesn't hold the deer.
But by late October I get more deer than I can count.
There's much hunting pressure surrounding my property and from my observation, they don't worry about stealth, thus more deer opportunity for me.
So I guess in my personal situation, they don't bother me.
Post by: Gdpolk on October 26, 2019, 08:48:51 PM
Post by: Friend on October 26, 2019, 10:46:12 PM
Pool a sufficient number of trad guys in order to lease an appreciable size of quality ground.
Full trad-only season …all season …if permitted by local regulations
Both a realistic and an attainable objective that may be predicated on the self determination of this worthy endeavor.
Post by: OkKeith on October 27, 2019, 12:24:43 AM
While I was with the State Park Service here in Oklahoma I had a park that was several thousand wooded acres and held a lot of deer (a lot!). Even though the park property was all healthy woodlands and it was surrounded by mostly small farms and larger ranch property it sat entirely within the corporate city limits of the nearby college town. Before I came in, a group of bowhunters were successful in lobbying for an archery deer season on park property with appropriate boundaries away from normal use areas. This was accomplished solely through an organized group, working with the Department of Wildlife Conservation and (fortunately) some open minded city officials. If the initial push had been for a Traditional Archery Only hunting opportunity, it would never have happened. There simply would not have been a critical mass of trad archers that could have moved the needle on the effort. It took ALL of the local bowhunters to get the plan formed, approved and adopted.
State Fish and Game Agencies are open to the idea of archery only areas but it would be a hard sell to get a traditional archery only designation. As managers of the greater interests for the state it would just not be feasible to favor such a small group. I think it would be fantastic to have but just not the "biggest bang for the buck" that government agencies have to consider.
As I said in an earlier post, we do have a Traditional Archery Only area in Oklahoma. It is on federal property at the McAlister Army Ammunition Plant (MCAAP) in the SE part of the state. This area is managed on a paradigm of extremely limited access and a highly controlled hunt regime. On the MCAAP tens of thousands of pounds of high explosives and ammunition are stored in earth covered bunkers all over the property, so archery only is probably the best idea (bullets flying where bombs are stored... bad idea). I think it was in the nineteen-seventies when it was decided that archery hunting would be allowed and traditional archery the only method. The hunt has turned into something very special because of the quality of deer that have been killed there. I have drawn in to the hunt a few times and shot some nice deer. I don't put in to it any more because its just such a PAIN in the backside to hunt it. It is VERY restrictive. You can not carry any device or materials that could cause a fire (bombs... remember). They do not allow individuals to drive in. You are assigned to a specific set of grid coordinates and can only hunt in that spot and must ride in with your assigned group. Expect TOTAL searches of all your gear at least twice a day. Security personnel have even been know to take arrows apart looking for matches and cigarettes hidden in the shafts (I am sure its because some knucklehead has tried to do just that). I have plenty of other places to hunt (not with NEAR that quality of deer though) and no one is wanting to strip search me.
Here is a link to a 2016 news report and a short article on hunting at the MCAAP.
https://www.newson6.com/story/33642409/bow-hunters-find-challenge-at-mcalester-army-ammunition-plant
OkKeith
Post by: mj seratt on October 27, 2019, 02:35:54 AM
P.S. We decided that the Velvet Tour should be re-named the B.O.tour, as it was a bus full of deer hunters who had been out all day in the 111 degree heat.
Murray
Post by: wapitishooter on October 27, 2019, 12:45:10 PM
Post by: Kevin Dill on October 27, 2019, 02:17:21 PM
Post by: Pine on October 27, 2019, 02:19:14 PM
Post by: McDave on October 27, 2019, 03:59:54 PM
Post by: Red Beastmaster on October 28, 2019, 09:16:52 PM
I like what I do and surround myself with like minded buddies. I've enjoyed trad only seasons for a long time. :)
Our bow season here in PA has morphed into something totally unrecognizable. X-guns, inlines, jr/sr rifle, youth this and that, all crammed into October. Our bow deer season has become a joke. Our group has adapted and found areas to avoid most of the intrusions.
Post by: Blackstick on October 30, 2019, 12:48:00 PM
Post by: Wudstix on November 01, 2019, 11:51:14 AM
Expect TOTAL searches of all your gear at least twice a day. Security personnel have even been know to take arrows apart looking for matches and cigarettes hidden in the shafts (I am sure its because some knucklehead has tried to do just that). I have plenty of other places to hunt (not with NEAR that quality of deer though) and no one is wanting to strip search me.That could add a bit of flare to the hunting day!!!! I hunt Camp Bullis in San Antonio and it has restrictions, as well. This year they went to No Feeders, because they are trying to get a handle on the hog problem. So it is just spot and stalk or sit and wait. Really adds to the challenge. Texas brush and rocky ground make it fun!!!
Here is a link to a 2016 news report and a short article on hunting at the MCAAP.
https://www.newson6.com/story/33642409/bow-hunters-find-challenge-at-mcalester-army-ammunition-plant
OkKeith
Post by: trad_bowhunter1965 on November 01, 2019, 12:17:30 PM
Post by: Wudstix on November 01, 2019, 02:49:52 PM
Post by: OkKeith on November 01, 2019, 02:57:19 PM
•Bow: Any compound bow of 30 pounds or more draw weight; any recurve, longbow or self-bow of 40 pounds or more draw weight. Hand-held releases are legal. Devices that permit a bow to be held mechanically at full or partial draw are allowed.
•Broadheads: Arrows and/or bolts must be fitted with hunting type points not less than 7/8 inches wide, including mechanical broad- heads meeting this width requirement when fully open.
•Crossbows: Minimum of 100 pounds draw weight and equipped with safety devices. Bolts must be a minimum of 14 inches in length. Leverage gaining devices are legal.
No language allowing for air propelled arrows. Are there any states that include air propelled arrows in their legal means of taking?
OkKeith
Post by: KentuckyWolf on November 01, 2019, 04:06:35 PM
Post by: kennym on November 01, 2019, 04:50:03 PM
Right now I can hunt from Sep 15 til Jan 15 except rifle season.
If they split it into 4 or 5 seasons, do I end up with 2 or 3 weeks for trad season?
I wouldn't be liking that much, I buy a rifle tag and hunt in that season too... with my longbow.
Post by: Ronnie Newell on November 01, 2019, 04:55:52 PM
Oklahoma defines "Archery Equipment" as:To answer OK's question..(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191101/088f205204bde12e3ffe69432001fd83.jpg)
•Bow: Any compound bow of 30 pounds or more draw weight; any recurve, longbow or self-bow of 40 pounds or more draw weight. Hand-held releases are legal. Devices that permit a bow to be held mechanically at full or partial draw are allowed.
•Broadheads: Arrows and/or bolts must be fitted with hunting type points not less than 7/8 inches wide, including mechanical broad- heads meeting this width requirement when fully open.
•Crossbows: Minimum of 100 pounds draw weight and equipped with safety devices. Bolts must be a minimum of 14 inches in length. Leverage gaining devices are legal.
No language allowing for air propelled arrows. Are there any states that include air propelled arrows in their legal means of taking?
OkKeith
Sent from my LG-M150 using Tapatalk
Post by: Roy from Pa on November 01, 2019, 05:32:00 PM
Quote
From Kennym...Here's a thought, say they carve the fall into special seasons for different weapons.
Right now I can hunt from Sep 15 til Jan 15 except rifle season.
If they split it into 4 or 5 seasons, do I end up with 2 or 3 weeks for trad season?
I wouldn't be liking that much, I buy a rifle tag and hunt in that season too... with my longbow.
Exactly, Kenny.
We trad guys are a minority in hunting, last I heard the majority wins the vote..
I never even see a darn bow hunter when I'm out bow hunting, so why do I need a special season for my trad bow?
Hunt and let others hunt as they wish.
Post by: OkKeith on November 03, 2019, 05:17:37 PM
From what I can find on the TPW website it's still a non-issue.
"Arrow guns may not be used to hunt deer or turkey during archery season."
I only did a quick search but that's what I found.
OkKeith
Post by: Ronnie Newell on November 03, 2019, 08:11:36 PM
Post by: OkKeith on November 04, 2019, 11:40:10 AM
I looked into the Arrow Gun thing a little more. It seems that they are legal to use during the Texas gun season but are not defined as Archery equipment. Air Rifles and Arrow Guns are at this time still considered firearms.
Along with you, I don't see the attraction of hunting game animals with either an air rifle or an arrow gun. Maybe it's just the novelty of a new hunting tool? It can't really be a matter of "bigger and better" since neither hunting tool is an improvement on anything else. From what I have read, neither are really any quieter. I enjoy my recurves and longbows! It's the only type of archery equipment I have ever used.
As to your initial question about a Traditional Only Archery Season... I think every bowhunter that uses a single string bow would love to have a time set aside just for us. This would only really impact public lands. Private lands are under the control of those who hunt them, so if they want a Trad Only situation, they could do that.
My understanding of your other posts is that the concern was less about having a Traditional Archery only opportunity than it is about not having other means of taking in the field along with you... a valid concern. Unfortunately State Game and Fish Agencies do not have the resources or the political capitol to make this happen. Even if they did, it would probably cause more problems than it would solve, as exampled by lots of other comments.
Hunting with a single string bow (I don't know what "Traditional Archery" really means) isn't easy but it is certainly fun! Some folks talk about the "limitations" of single string bowhunting but I have never felt restricted or limited. Quite the contrary, I think it is an experience of freedom from complications. Either way it is a fulfilling way to hunt and I enjoy every moment I am in the field with a bow in my hand.
OkKeith
Post by: gregg dudley on November 04, 2019, 01:25:59 PM
A lot of the people posting here have obviously served on stakeholder groups at the local or state level. When you do that for a minute or two, you realize all of the politics involved in the process. Once you get past the desire to scream about that, you can't help but marvel at the fact that despite the myriad factors working against them, state DNR offices actually do a pretty good job of protecting the resource and offering opportunities to sportsmen.
Most people here would push for resources to be managed along scientific principles. The fact is that a large scale traditional archery season doesn't do much to promote opportunity for any significant part of the hunting community. It also doesn't do much to achieve management objectives. Additional seasons also stretch the resources of agencies charged with enforcement and monitoring. However, smaller scale designated traditional archery hunting areas could be a great compromise and be beneficial for a smaller stakeholder group and a smaller wildlife population.
Post by: LITTLEBIGMAN on November 08, 2019, 10:47:43 AM
the understanding of what our archer hunting forefathers were trying to do has long since passed from the memory of the hunting industry. We have no one to blame but our selves. $$$ and laziness . I've quit preaching to the choir. One of my compound friends suggested I trim a branch on a stand so he would be able to shoot 60 yards.
i'll just be happy in my own pursuit using a primitive weapon as there is no going back to the old days for sure.