Post by: Roy from Pa on December 14, 2020, 10:40:38 AM
Here are the materials all ready for glue up.
Osage quarter sawn sister billets for the belly, 1/4" thickness parallel x 1.75 wide..
Maple core lams tapered from 3/16th" at riser to 1/16th" at tips x 1.75" wide.
The belly and core lams have been Z spliced together.
12.5" long Osage riser, 1 inch thick x 2" wide.
Buffalo horn tip overlays 1.75" long x 5/8th wide, tapered to a knife edge on the riser facing end.
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 14, 2020, 10:52:22 AM
I run a weighted string end to end to get them straight.
Clamp them down straight and I drill 2 holes in the grip area of the riser and a hole on each side of the tips.
After glue is applied and lams all together, I push toothpicks into the holes, keeps everything aligned while clamping up.
When drilling the holes at the tips, I angle the drill bit away from the boo.
I lay a short piece of wooden arrow under the string so the string doesn't get interfered with by the nodes.
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Post by: Shredd on December 14, 2020, 10:59:37 AM
Post by: Flem on December 14, 2020, 11:01:33 AM
Post by: mmattockx on December 14, 2020, 11:06:48 AM
OK. 64" tip to tip shooting for 45# @ 28" draw.
Osage quarter sawn sister billets for the belly, 1/4" thickness parallel x 1.75 wide..
12.5" long Osage riser, 1 inch thick x 2" wide.
Awesome. I just want to say I am deeply jealous of all you guys down south with a good supply of osage. Nothing even remotely comparable up here and it all costs too much.
Mark
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 14, 2020, 11:09:47 AM
I use a 3.75" high center post placed at the center of the bow.
I use 2.75" high mid limb posts, placed half way between the flares and end of tips.
I use 5" high end posts.
I first clamp the center post down, then do the 2 mid limb posts.
Then I affix the remaining clamps, alternating their direction.
I use 2 inch pieces of boo which is flattened on the top to protect the boo from damage from the clamps.
I also placed a lam pad under the belly for more clamp protection.
I run the clamps down snug, then tighten a tad more.
I use unibond 800 for glue up and I weigh the resin and hardener to a 1 to 12 ratio.
This bow is 1100 grains resin and 90 grains hardener.
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Post by: Roy from Pa on December 14, 2020, 11:13:33 AM
I let it in the box for 24 hours.
The form is 1" thick 6" wide 6 feet long hickory with 1" angle iron bolted to the sides.
Add the 30 some clamps and it's a bit heavy to lift into the box.
So the wife helps me:)
Post by: Mad Max on December 14, 2020, 11:32:52 AM
:laughing:
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 14, 2020, 11:38:23 AM
You can change the amount of deflex / reflex by the position of the mid limb posts. Moving the mid limb posts closer to the riser yields more deflex and moving them farther out towards the tips yields less deflex. The more deflex you induce causes more of the limb to work. I have also used 6" high end posts. I just decided to go for 5" on this bow. With this form, you have plenty of options for whatever you want the bow to look like and perform, just by making different height posts or moving them either direction.
Post by: Mad Max on December 14, 2020, 11:59:41 AM
Post by: Bowjunkie on December 14, 2020, 12:05:36 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 14, 2020, 12:07:38 PM
Guys, Jeff is the one who taught me all of this.
His bows are awesome works of art.
Anything ya want to add Jeff just jump right in bro.
Post by: Mad Max on December 14, 2020, 12:20:36 PM
Post by: Bowjunkie on December 14, 2020, 12:22:18 PM
I'm going to be grinding some hickory this afternoon. Making some test bows and going to upgrade my tillering tree. Lots of testing in the coming weeks. Tiller/limb balance stuff.
Post by: mmattockx on December 14, 2020, 12:25:14 PM
The form is 1" thick 6" wide 6 feet long hickory with 1" angle iron bolted to the sides.
Add the 30 some clamps and it's a bit heavy to lift into the box.
I was just thinking to myself "how much does all that steel weigh?" and I got to this comment. I was thinking I must be a complete wimp for a second there.
Do you anchor the blocks to the form in any way or just let the clamps hold everything in place?
Looking good and I'm learning things already.
Mark
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 14, 2020, 12:37:12 PM
Those 3 long clamps holds everything down on the form.
I make them pretty snug.
Post by: kennym on December 14, 2020, 12:39:35 PM
Jeff, did ya show him again on this one? :biglaugh:
Post by: David Flanrey on December 14, 2020, 01:10:41 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 14, 2020, 01:25:35 PM
Thanks David.
Here is what I make for padding the back of the boo backing with so the clamps do not indent it.
You get any type of damage to the boo backing and it will prolly result in a failure.
I cut 2 inch pieces of bamboo, grind a little off the edges, then grind the back flat so the clamp doesn't slide off it.
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Post by: Mad Max on December 14, 2020, 02:10:06 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 14, 2020, 02:11:26 PM
:wavey: :laughing:
Post by: Mad Max on December 14, 2020, 03:26:51 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 14, 2020, 03:36:48 PM
Post by: kennym on December 14, 2020, 03:44:23 PM
That’s a pretty good drawing for someone from PA :laughing:
Jeff did it... :laughing:
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 14, 2020, 04:39:55 PM
Post by: Crooked Stic on December 14, 2020, 05:11:33 PM
anyhow looking good Roy
Post by: KellyG on December 14, 2020, 10:18:04 PM
Post by: Carpdaddy on December 14, 2020, 10:32:51 PM
But I like your build, looking good, the bow is. :clapper:
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 14, 2020, 10:45:32 PM
Carp, me dish it out?
Can't you see this halo on my head?
LOL we have fun in here and it's all in jest.
Post by: Buemaker on December 15, 2020, 09:44:43 AM
Post by: Pat B on December 15, 2020, 09:46:22 AM
Nice build along, Roy. I don't care what others say. :readit:
Post by: Longcruise on December 15, 2020, 10:53:23 AM
Post by: Flem on December 15, 2020, 11:02:46 AM
Post by: Pat B on December 15, 2020, 11:06:15 AM
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 15, 2020, 11:34:19 AM
So, why do you pre cut the boo to shape? :dunno:
I have a pattern that is the exact shape of the bow I want.
Or I could layout a bow pattern just like you glass bow guy's do.
After rough flattening the belly side of the boo, I lay the pattern on the flat side and trace it out. Then cut to that line, then thin and taper the boo thickness to what I want. Can you imagine trying to draw a pattern on the round back side of the boo?
Then after the bow is all glued up, all I need to do is cut along the edge of the boo pattern and there is my bow.
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 15, 2020, 11:37:23 AM
How do flatten your Bamboo, Roy?
I run it through my drum sander.
All I want is a flat surface to layout my bows pattern.
The nodes hardly affect the flattening process.
Then after I cut out the boo to the bows shape, I then taper the boo thickness to 1/8th at riser to 1/16th at the tips with my edge sander and a toothing plane. That's how I get the boo backing to a flat tapered surface.
Post by: Bvas on December 15, 2020, 06:32:12 PM
Huh? Huh? Huh?
Are ya? Are ya? Are ya?
Come on!!
Whatcha waiting on?
Let’s go!!!
Get the show on the road!!
Less talk more work!!
:goldtooth:
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 15, 2020, 08:05:28 PM
:wavey:
Post by: mmattockx on December 15, 2020, 08:55:59 PM
Are ya done yet??
Huh? Huh? Huh?
Are ya? Are ya? Are ya?
Glad I'm not the only one thinking it.
I'm waiting for your bow build...
:wavey:
Ouch. Tough crowd around here.
Mark
Post by: Flem on December 15, 2020, 09:01:27 PM
Thats one thing that sucks about milling Bamboo into lams, you loose a lot of good, strong fibers :banghead:
Post by: goobersan on December 15, 2020, 09:12:07 PM
:deadhorse:
Post by: KellyG on December 16, 2020, 12:02:24 AM
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 16, 2020, 04:38:00 AM
The middle core in first picture is hard maple, says so in first post Flemmy boy:)
Flem I swear ya need glasses:)
Gooberson it's 15#..
Good to see ya Kelly.
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 16, 2020, 06:28:36 AM
Got horn tip overlays glued on, I use ea40 for that.
I first cut very close to the side of the boo up about 2 inches from the tip to get the excess wood removed on the sides.
I lay the overlay on the tip then trace the edge, cut it close to the line, then finish with a rasp and block of sandpaper. Ya need to be careful doing this.
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 16, 2020, 06:36:18 AM
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Post by: Roy from Pa on December 16, 2020, 06:40:43 AM
Cut close to the line and then get to the line with the edge sander.
You want a perfect match with this, so you keep checking the fit and sand as needed.
I'm adding a 3/16th" lam of purple heart between the bow and riser to add a little color.
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 16, 2020, 06:50:58 AM
I pad the back of the boo again to prevent clamp damage.
I alternate the 5 clamps and really crank these down tight.
I place the end clamps at the very end of the riser to make sure there are no gaps between riser and belly of bow.
You need to align the riser center line to the 3/4" inch line below bows center.
After it's clamped down tight, I wipe the excess glue from the belly of the bow at the end of the riser, that's easier than sanding the hard glue off the belly later on.
It goes back in the drying box for 24 hours at 90 degrees.
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 16, 2020, 06:55:14 AM
I lent my camera to ole KennyM and took forever for him to send it back...
And the new batteries were missing and it had gwass dust all over it.
Gwass dust makes me itchy...
Dats why I make wood bows...
:laughing: :wavey:
Post by: kennym on December 16, 2020, 08:06:33 AM
And I bet you were itchy before you ever heard of glass or gwass , maybe it's gass that makes ya itchy ... :laughing:
Post by: Mad Max on December 16, 2020, 08:21:35 AM
The middle core in first picture is hard maple, says so in first post Flemmy boy:)
Flemmy boy :laughing:
I would like to see a list of the nicknames you have for our nicknames :laughing:
Nice work Roy Boy :goldtooth:
Post by: Jack Denbow on December 16, 2020, 08:28:19 AM
That looks a lot like a glass bow process. :thumbsup:
maybe it's gass that makes ya itchy ... :laughing:
Thanks Kenny now I have coffee all over my screen. :biglaugh:
Post by: Flem on December 16, 2020, 10:48:26 AM
Seems the dam broke on my stream of consciousness. My thoughts are running away together like a swirling vortex of brain doo doo.
I was just thinking out loud and should have typed; Us glass bow makers sure waste a lot of good Bamboo fibers when we mill it into thin laminations.
Post by: Pat B on December 16, 2020, 11:41:09 AM
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 16, 2020, 12:00:48 PM
Post by: Pat B on December 16, 2020, 12:49:04 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 16, 2020, 12:54:11 PM
Post by: Buemaker on December 16, 2020, 05:18:16 PM
Build along goes fine.
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 16, 2020, 05:50:50 PM
Post by: Mad Max on December 16, 2020, 06:03:18 PM
Post by: Bvas on December 16, 2020, 06:45:40 PM
Ya happy Bvass?
I lent my camera to ole KennyM and took forever for him to send it back...
And the new batteries were missing and it had gwass dust all over it.
Gwass dust makes me itchy...
Dats why I make wood bows...
:laughing: :wavey:
You outa know, I ain’t never “happy”. lol
But I am pleased to see ya moving things along.
Looking putty darn good........especially for a grass bow.
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 16, 2020, 06:55:05 PM
Post by: Longcruise on December 16, 2020, 07:54:39 PM
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The one on the left
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 16, 2020, 08:51:03 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 17, 2020, 07:12:21 AM
Maybe haul in more firewood if I can get to the wood pile and uncover it.
Darn near a foot of the white stuff here and 21 inches up northern Pa:)
Post by: kennym on December 17, 2020, 07:25:23 AM
Post by: Buemaker on December 17, 2020, 07:32:36 AM
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 17, 2020, 07:44:08 AM
Post by: Flem on December 17, 2020, 10:51:11 AM
Post by: Longcruise on December 17, 2020, 11:59:35 AM
The one on the left
It looks like that left corner of the overlay is not in full contact with the bow. Might be how im looking at it.
It's cold at night and into the 40' during the day. About 3" of snow on the ground and doesn’t want to melt. Solstice only days away. :)
Post by: mmattockx on December 17, 2020, 12:42:04 PM
It looks like that left corner of the overlay is not in full contact with the bow. Might be how im looking at it.
That isn't an overlay, it is a pad for the clamp. Unless I'm looking at it wrong...
Mark
Post by: Mad Max on December 17, 2020, 12:53:24 PM
Nock it off Sister McKenzie, go skin your doe:)
Thanks David.
Here is what I make for padding the back of the boo backing with so the clamps do not indent it.
You get any type of damage to the boo backing and it will prolly result in a failure.
I cut 2 inch pieces of bamboo, grind a little off the edges, then grind the back flat so the clamp doesn't slide off it.
And his core wood is still wider than the bamboo :thumbsup:
Post by: Longcruise on December 17, 2020, 01:01:40 PM
It looks like that left corner of the overlay is not in full contact with the bow. Might be how im looking at it.
That isn't an overlay, it is a pad for the clamp. Unless I'm looking at it wrong...
Mark
Think you're right.
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 17, 2020, 03:20:08 PM
Post by: Mad Max on December 18, 2020, 08:11:24 AM
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 18, 2020, 08:27:35 AM
Post by: Mad Max on December 18, 2020, 08:42:29 AM
So your bows are Positive tiller with the bottom limb stronger, AFTER you do your limb timing what are the measurements from fade to string on top and bottom limbs. I want to make sure I understand how you do it ;)
:coffee:
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 18, 2020, 09:01:45 AM
A lot of guys don't understand that or care not to consider it.
The bottom limb is stronger because it's shorter than the top limb by 1.5", reason being is the center of the riser is 3/4" below bows center.. That makes my arrow shelf 1.25" above bows center. The closer you get the arrow shelf to the center of the bow, the more you are drawing the bow at it's center, "bows static pivot point".
There was a thread in here a long time ago, polling guys as to how far above the bows center they placed their arrow shelf.
The majority said 1.25" above center.
Have more plowing to do... Light snow falling:)
https://youtu.be/cf7CnshkW7I
Post by: Mad Max on December 18, 2020, 09:24:51 AM
I would STILL like to know what you end up with the measurements Plowboy Roy :tongue:
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 18, 2020, 09:36:02 AM
Post by: Mad Max on December 18, 2020, 10:13:07 AM
Post by: kennym on December 18, 2020, 10:14:42 AM
Every bows measurement's are different.
Sounds like my bows... :laughing:
Post by: Longcruise on December 18, 2020, 10:31:44 AM
I'm starting to move my locator grip lower but not the riser.
I would STILL like to know what you end up with the measurements Plowboy Roy :tongue:
I'm playing with that too. Even on ASLs.
Roy, I've followed your discussions on limb timing previously and recall you saying that you draw the bow on your tree at the shelf point. Is that still your methodology?
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 18, 2020, 10:52:31 AM
I assume my nocking point on the string is going to be set at 3/8th above the shelf, and that's how I set it on my bow string. I nock the arrow under that nocking point, an arrow nock is about 1/4" high, so I figured out where my middle finger will be and set the tree up according to that. So my bows are tillered for equal limb timing according to where I am going to hold the bow string.
People who just tiller a bow for the old 1/4" positive idea, then have to keep adjusting their nocking point to get the arrows to fly right up and down when tuning the bow. I never have to do that and the bow is tillered to shoot perfect from the start of tillering.
In the above video, that bow is being setup for shooting split finger. Notice the tree pull rope travels straight down the black line on the right. That tells me those limbs are bending exactly the same way, balanced! And when I shoot an arrow, those limbs hit brace at the exact same time. No hand shock, very little noise, and great accuracy.
Bingo....
Bow tillered for split finger.
https://youtu.be/rjNOCvAWtA0
Post by: flyonline on December 18, 2020, 09:53:15 PM
Roy
is your bow clamped to the tree? I've noticed that I can get different results when using a flat base, and a curved base which somewhat represents how it will float in the hand during drawing. I guess if it's got perfect tiller, it probably won't matter, but getting there during the tillering process, the limbs will/may behave differently.
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 19, 2020, 05:50:09 AM
You can see it in the video on page 4.
It keeps it from falling off should something dumb happen, but it doesn't hold it so tight that it can't pivot a little.
But the closer I get to final tiller I'll can leave it off and the bow sits there just fine.
Buddy who taught me this is working on a fulcrum type cradle for the tree.
We've talked about the fulcrum many times.
Post by: flyonline on December 19, 2020, 07:11:47 PM
Never doubted you, just confirming what I was thunkin'
Post by: Bowjunkie on December 19, 2020, 08:31:48 PM
Post by: Black Mockingbird on December 19, 2020, 11:28:51 PM
Post by: oldandslow on December 20, 2020, 05:37:10 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 20, 2020, 05:40:56 PM
Post by: oldandslow on December 20, 2020, 05:43:21 PM
I have no bamboo locally
Post by: Carpdaddy on December 20, 2020, 09:54:14 PM
His one carries a lot of good laughs also, makes it even better. :biglaugh:
Post by: Mad Max on December 20, 2020, 10:32:35 PM
Do you have a finish on it? :jumper:
Are you snow plowing? :help:
what's up? :dunno:
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 20, 2020, 11:26:32 PM
Took you and ole Kennym 2 months to finish your bows.
Yes I got it cut out today and the sides and riser cleaned up.
I took a bunch of pichers and emailed them to my inbox..
I need to download them and resize for tg.
Been thinking I could have done better demonstration videos to explain things here.
There are so many trival things I do and I seem to skip over them in this thread.
So tomorrow I will post pichers.
Post by: Mad Max on December 20, 2020, 11:32:39 PM
But I have 3 other bows going too. :bigsmyl:
Just wanted to see where you were. :tongue:
Post by: Longcruise on December 21, 2020, 08:25:50 AM
Quote
Just wanted to see where you were. :tongue:
I don wanna know anythin about where he's been. :o
Post by: Crooked Stic on December 21, 2020, 08:49:54 AM
Post by: Mad Max on December 21, 2020, 09:06:57 AM
I use it all the time
Post by: Longcruise on December 21, 2020, 09:23:59 AM
I took the photo below, resized and posted it in here while in the middle of writing the post. Took less than a minute.
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 21, 2020, 09:39:54 AM
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Post by: Roy from Pa on December 21, 2020, 09:42:01 AM
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Post by: Roy from Pa on December 21, 2020, 09:43:50 AM
Post by: mmattockx on December 21, 2020, 10:17:06 AM
Looks like it wants to become a bow. How wide are the tips in these pics and what will they end up at?
Mark
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 21, 2020, 10:57:28 AM
https://youtu.be/p5C_8PLBcA0
Post by: Flem on December 21, 2020, 11:00:17 AM
How much reflex do you loose after its shot in a while?
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 21, 2020, 11:06:11 AM
https://youtu.be/nnN5iAdGtt8
Post by: goobersan on December 21, 2020, 12:14:07 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 21, 2020, 12:33:22 PM
Post by: Flem on December 21, 2020, 12:46:45 PM
It will end up with about 1.5" reflex.
https://youtu.be/nnN5iAdGtt8
If you let me know what you started with, I can do the math for you ;)
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 21, 2020, 12:59:05 PM
:laughing:
Post by: Mad Max on December 21, 2020, 01:24:35 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 21, 2020, 01:32:33 PM
Post by: Crooked Stic on December 21, 2020, 04:13:04 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 21, 2020, 04:37:29 PM
No problem with them popping off.
Those pictures are on down the line.
Post by: Mad Max on December 21, 2020, 06:50:06 PM
After the photobucket debacle I stopped using the online storage sites. For phone you can resize for the net on your phone and still keep the original size too.
I took the photo below, resized and posted it in here while in the middle of writing the post. Took less than a minute.
I did nt know you were that short, Nice train :thumbsup: :laughing:
Post by: oldandslow on December 21, 2020, 06:50:32 PM
What kind of thickness should I be looking for?
Should it be tapered?
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 21, 2020, 06:56:50 PM
Tapered would be nice but not necessary.
Post by: oldandslow on December 21, 2020, 07:02:03 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 21, 2020, 07:05:50 PM
Post by: Flem on December 21, 2020, 07:17:46 PM
After the photobucket debacle I stopped using the online storage sites. For phone you can resize for the net on your phone and still keep the original size too.
I took the photo below, resized and posted it in here while in the middle of writing the post. Took less than a minute.
I did nt know you were that short, Nice train :thumbsup: :laughing:
:laughing: :laughing: I think I just wet myself, a little
Post by: Longcruise on December 21, 2020, 09:13:45 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 21, 2020, 10:21:40 PM
Post by: Longcruise on December 21, 2020, 10:26:32 PM
Post by: Mad Max on December 21, 2020, 11:35:09 PM
You guys ARE a virus! :biglaugh:
:bigsmyl:
Post by: Flem on December 21, 2020, 11:52:57 PM
Holy Crap it's like pulling teeth to get a straight answer! Had to go to another thread to get it.
Looks like you loose 1-1.5" from the form to shot in.
Hope that wasn't your last tooth :bigsmyl:
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 22, 2020, 04:58:01 AM
Post by: Flem on December 22, 2020, 11:01:54 AM
Remember it's a wooden bow, not glass.
Got it. Just wanted some perspective.
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 22, 2020, 11:26:10 AM
Post by: Pat B on December 22, 2020, 11:34:23 AM
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 22, 2020, 11:39:46 AM
I backed off a little on this bow.
Post by: Pat B on December 22, 2020, 02:07:02 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 22, 2020, 02:31:00 PM
I've found that more reflex over 3 inches just causes more headaches when tillering.
Post by: Mad Max on December 22, 2020, 02:37:57 PM
Post by: oldandslow on December 24, 2020, 11:52:16 AM
How do flatten your Bamboo, Roy?
I run it through my drum sander.
All I want is a flat surface to layout my bows pattern.
The nodes hardly affect the flattening process.
Then after I cut out the boo to the bows shape, I then taper the boo thickness to 1/8th at riser to 1/16th at the tips with my edge sander and a toothing plane. That's how I get the boo backing to a flat tapered surface.
Is the bamboo backing 1.75 at the widest point?
And what does it taper to at the tip?
Thanks
Post by: mmattockx on December 24, 2020, 12:02:32 PM
Is the bamboo backing 1.75 at the widest point?
And what does it taper to at the tip?
Thanks
A ways back Roy said they are 5/8" at glue up and he narrows them down to 1/2" or less during tillering.
Mark
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 24, 2020, 04:26:54 PM
The bamboo backing is pre shaped/cut to the exact shape of the bow prior to glue up.
I don't have time right now to explain the layout of the boo. Xmas eve now.
If you look at the first pictures of the materials then look at the later pictures of the bow after it was cut out, you will understand then.
Post by: kennym on December 24, 2020, 04:41:15 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 25, 2020, 10:26:40 AM
Measure down 3/4" from that center line and mark that.
Measure up 2 inches from the 3/4" below center line for the arrow shelf " top of grip".
Measure down 2 inches from the 3/4" below center line for the "bottom of the grip."
That gives you a 4 inch grip area which I make 3/4" wide.
From the top and bottom of the 4" grip, measure out 2 inches, that will be the flare "widest part of the bow"
I make the flares 1 1/4" wide.
From the flares I do a straight taper to 1/2" wide at the tips.
These pictures are the best I have now, but they show you the outline of the riser area.
Disregard the yellow crossed out line, was prolly a brain fart back then:)
Oldandslow, that will be $19.99:)
Post by: oldandslow on December 25, 2020, 10:28:40 AM
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 25, 2020, 10:31:25 AM
Merry Xmas
I made up a bow pattern like above, out of 1/8th thick board and all I do is lay it on my backing and trace it out.
Do the same and use a lead pencil and trace out the outside of the stencil.
Keep working at it till you get it right.
https://youtu.be/FS5al6eU87c
Post by: Mad Max on December 25, 2020, 04:48:31 PM
Have you made any more progress roy?
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 25, 2020, 06:59:58 PM
Have had a sore throat for 2 days plus xmas stuff..
And snow with temps in the teens.
Patience my friend.
Post by: Mad Max on December 25, 2020, 07:10:39 PM
Take care of your old self :tongue:
Post by: oldandslow on December 26, 2020, 03:05:03 PM
Post by: Longcruise on December 26, 2020, 03:07:50 PM
Post by: mmattockx on December 26, 2020, 06:14:24 PM
Typically nock to nock. I allow at least an inch past the nocks on each end until the final shape of the tips is decided.
+1, always leave a bit extra on the tips and trim to suit afterwards. People measure them both ways, nock to nock and tip to tip but normally it is specified how it is being measured. I prefer nock to nock because that also tells you the string length you are going to need.
Mark
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 26, 2020, 07:11:38 PM
Post by: oldandslow on December 26, 2020, 07:23:15 PM
My very first post on page one, very first sentence said 64 tip to tip.Yes sur it did! And I read it!! Was clarifying if that was the actual cut length of the parts or the finished length. As you mentioned, dont be afraid to ask questions...so I asked!
Post by: Flem on December 26, 2020, 07:40:00 PM
Post by: Mad Max on December 26, 2020, 08:12:48 PM
My very first post on page one, very first sentence said 64 tip to tip.
Grumpy old fartttttttttttttttttt :laughing:
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 26, 2020, 09:29:23 PM
The 64 inches was the length of the materials.
It will be 62.5 inches nock to nock.
Post by: Crooked Stic on December 26, 2020, 09:50:56 PM
:bigsmyl:
Post by: kennym on December 27, 2020, 08:40:15 AM
Post by: oldandslow on December 27, 2020, 08:53:53 AM
I like the ntn measure cause some folks have bigger tips .
Post by: Mad Max on December 27, 2020, 08:56:04 AM
My very first post on page one, very first sentence said 64 tip to tip.
Yea but, the Boo back you sent me was 64" long, So 62" NTN :tongue:
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 27, 2020, 08:57:49 AM
:jumper:
Post by: Shredd on December 27, 2020, 09:49:23 AM
Post by: Mad Max on December 27, 2020, 10:16:34 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/G1j7wUS.jpg)
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 27, 2020, 10:24:01 AM
Post by: oldandslow on December 27, 2020, 01:21:22 PM
Post by: oldandslow on December 27, 2020, 01:22:12 PM
Those outside clamps are 16 inches out from center
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 27, 2020, 01:44:47 PM
Post by: oldandslow on December 27, 2020, 02:02:17 PM
Post by: oldandslow on December 27, 2020, 02:20:07 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 27, 2020, 02:43:20 PM
Your second picture will give more reflex and less deflex than your first picture.
First picture will be a sharper looking bow and will work more of the limbs.
I think you would be happy with it.
Don't get hooked on a lot of reflex.
The more reflex you have the trickery it is too tiller.
Post by: Mad Max on December 27, 2020, 02:46:53 PM
Usually lose 1.5 inches.
Your second picture will give more reflex and less deflex than your first picture.
First picture will be a sharper looking bow and will work more of the limbs.
I think you would be happy with it.
Don't get hooked on a lot of reflex.
The more reflex you have the trickery it is too tiller.
x2
Looking good :thumbsup:
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 27, 2020, 03:26:37 PM
Go back and look at my picture of bow in the form.
Post by: oldandslow on December 27, 2020, 04:09:54 PM
After looking at your form again, you do not want those wide boards for the center and mid limb posts. You want a narrow post where it contacts the bow.
Go back and look at my picture of bow in the form.
K. Thanks
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 27, 2020, 04:23:36 PM
Post by: oldandslow on December 27, 2020, 04:53:20 PM
Post by: Bowjunkie on December 27, 2020, 05:33:48 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 27, 2020, 07:39:26 PM
Take one of those upright boards and mount it to a wide flat base.
Go look at my form again, where the bow contacts the top of post.
These posts are lined up the way they go under the bow...
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 27, 2020, 08:01:05 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 27, 2020, 08:28:49 PM
Its difficult for us to explain things in here.
I was lucky as Bowjunkie who replied above took me under his wing and taught me in his shop.
The glue joint is what holds the bow in its shape after you take it out of the form.
If you used those wide posts in your picture, the bow would come out of the form with flat spots on both midlimb areas right where the posts were. 100% guaranteed.
Glue up is only a minor part of making a bow.
The finesse work begins after glue up.
But go for it, we all started like you are now.
Take notes and pictures and post the pictures here.
And remember this, once you start removing wood with power tools and hand tools.
Go slow and think, because you can always take more wood off.
BUT, if you take too much wood off in one little spot, you can't put it back on.
And the bow will be toast.
Post by: oldandslow on December 27, 2020, 08:48:57 PM
Post by: mmattockx on December 27, 2020, 09:25:20 PM
These posts are lined up the way they go under the bow...
I radiused my posts and put the clamp hole concentric with the radius so that the bow always touches tangent to the post regardless of the angle the bow hits the post and the clamp always clamps it on with no twist added.
(https://i.imgur.com/P4mSTex.jpg)
Mark
Post by: oldandslow on December 29, 2020, 02:57:19 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 29, 2020, 03:03:45 PM
Post by: oldandslow on December 29, 2020, 04:04:14 PM
Wondering about shaping the riser
Post by: oldandslow on December 29, 2020, 04:06:29 PM
Post by: oldandslow on December 29, 2020, 04:11:03 PM
Post by: oldandslow on December 29, 2020, 04:13:45 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 29, 2020, 05:20:17 PM
It looks pretty good...
:thumbsup:
Post by: Mad Max on December 30, 2020, 03:52:27 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 30, 2020, 04:02:09 PM
Working on house projects.
Post by: goobersan on December 30, 2020, 08:12:17 PM
Post by: kennym on December 30, 2020, 09:48:36 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 31, 2020, 06:58:58 AM
Post by: Buemaker on December 31, 2020, 07:56:51 AM
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 31, 2020, 08:36:47 AM
Post by: Buemaker on December 31, 2020, 08:41:02 AM
Post by: goobersan on January 01, 2021, 02:33:35 PM
Post by: oldandslow on January 01, 2021, 05:40:41 PM
Anything to be done to mitigate it?
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 01, 2021, 05:49:19 PM
Post by: oldandslow on January 01, 2021, 05:57:34 PM
Post by: oldandslow on January 01, 2021, 07:40:07 PM
Does purple heart make a good belly wood?
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 02, 2021, 07:25:31 AM
Purple heart for a belly I am not sure.
Tillering for equal limb timing is tillering the bow on the tiller tree so both limbs bend in harmony.
My tree is setup to replicate where the shooters hand will be when shooting the bow. The black vertical line on the right is for split finger shooting and the line in the middle is for 3 under shooting. The bow sits in the tree cradle with the arrow shelf aligned with the right side end of the cradle. I can move the bottom pulley of the tree to align with either of those vertical lines so the tree rope pulls straight down.
In the video below you will notice the trees pull rope tracks right down the black line on the wall when I pull the bow string downward. That tells me both limbs are bending in sync, " equal limb timing". Which means when the bow is shot, both limbs return to brace at the same time, that equals zero hand shock. If one limb gets back to brace before the other, that is what causes hand shock and erratic arrow flight and noise.
You start out on the tree only pulling the bow down a few inches, maybe 5 or 6 inches. You want a string on the bow that just fits into the string grooves of the bow so the string lays snug up against the belly of the bow.. You don't just string up the bow to a 6 inch brace right off the bat. As you pull the trees pull rope down, the limbs will start to bend. You want to keep the pull rope tracking the vertical line on the wall. If it drifts to one side or the other, it will "ALWAYS" drift towards the stronger limb.
So you need to remove wood from that stronger limb in order to get the pull rope tracking the line. Tillering a wood bow is a slow tedious process. You need a good eye to see where wood needs removed. If you seen any hinges, " areas where the bow is bending too much in one spot", stay away from that area and do not take any wood off there. Mark it no with a pencil.
As I start tillering the bow, my first goal is to get the pull rope tracking the line. So I see which limb is stronger and start removing a LITTLE wood where it needs removed. Don't go hog wild removing wood or you will cause a hinge. Once the rope is tracking the line, I'll exercise the bow about 25 times to a certain draw length down the tree, there are numbers the whole way down the wall on the lines. If the rope keeps tracking the line, I'll pull another 25 times to 2 inches further. EVERYTIME after removing wood from the bow, exercise it 25 times to the same distance before. Once all is good pull another 2 inches more down the tree. When you remove wood from the bow, it needs exercised to get the bow bending and for the wood removal to set in.
Once the limb tips are bending down to 6 inches, I will brace the bow up to about a 4 inch brace height. Then continue tillering as we did above, 2 inches more down the tree @ 25 pulls. Once the tips are bending to 9 inches, I'll brace the bow to about 6 inches and tiller on out to the intended draw length. But your goal is to keep that tree pull rope tracking the black line and you may need to make adjustments by removing wood the entire way down the tree to do that. But once the rope is tracking the black line, it will stay pretty close and only minor wood removal is needed.
You don't want any nicks or scratches in the wood when tillering, so after removing any wood, sand that area with 220 paper.
There is so much to tell you about tillering that it would take pages and pages. Go to you tube and do a search for tillering a wooden long bow, there should be many there.
Notice in the video below how the pull rope tracks the black line on the wall. This bow is tillered for equal limb timing.
I don't care if the tiller is positive or negative, whatever it ends up as is what the bow likes. It's usually even tiller or slightly negative.
https://youtu.be/cf7CnshkW7I
My tree is setup, " those black vertical lines on wall ", replicate where my middle finger will be on the bow string when shooting. The line on the right is for split finger, line in the middle is for 3 under and line on the left is for if I want to setup for a fixed crawl nocking point. My pulley at the bottom can be moved to align with either of those 3 lines to keep straight downward pressure on the bow.
I assume my nocking point on the string is going to be set at 3/8th above the shelf, and that's how I set it on my bow string. I nock the arrow under that nocking point, an arrow nock is about 1/4" high, so I figured out where my middle finger will be and set the tree up according to that. So my bows are tillered for equal limb timing according to where I am going to hold the bow string.
People who just tiller a bow for the old 1/4" positive idea, then have to keep adjusting their nocking point to get the arrows to fly right up and down when tuning the bow. I never have to do that and the bow is tillered to shoot perfect from the start of tillering.
In the above video, that bow is being setup for shooting split finger. Notice the tree pull rope travels straight down the black line on the right. That tells me those limbs are bending exactly the same way, balanced! And when I shoot an arrow, those limbs hit brace at the exact same time. No hand shock, very little noise, and great accuracy.
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 02, 2021, 07:42:44 AM
A 2 pulley setup reduces the weight you are pulling.
I slide the bottom pulley to align to which ever line I am tillering with, there is a set screw in the pulley to lock it in place..
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 02, 2021, 08:31:35 AM
If one limb was stronger than the other, the bow would tilt in the tree cradle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3oCJSHDGwc
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 02, 2021, 08:34:51 AM
Post by: Pat B on January 02, 2021, 09:00:01 AM
Post by: oldandslow on January 02, 2021, 10:53:19 AM
My tree setup needs work. I ordered up a scale.
Will also get a second pulley.
I found Dean Torges explanation on tillering while searching. Sounds very much like what your doing.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
My bow seems like its pulling equally. But it does have vibration at release. I have a Bodnik Mohawk which is dead in hand to compare it to.
It's more like a vibration than a shock.
Definitely gonna redo the tree and fine tune it to see if I can lessen that !
Thanks again. Really appreciate the effort your taking. Others will see this in the future and also benefit.
Post by: oldandslow on January 02, 2021, 10:54:29 AM
Purple heart has a tendency to fret if not tillered properly.
What is fret?
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 02, 2021, 10:57:58 AM
Some woods are better in compression than others and that's what the wood on the belly does, compress.
Try raising or lowering your brace height to see if that helps the vibration.
Did you round off all the limb edges on the bow?
You don't want any square edges.
I didn't know you were that far along:)
Link of Bow Vocabulary terms below.
http://www.tradgang.com/tgsmf/index.php?topic=148369.0
Post by: oldandslow on January 02, 2021, 11:13:00 AM
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 02, 2021, 12:55:34 PM
Post by: williwaw on January 02, 2021, 02:30:38 PM
Notice how stable the bow sits in the tree.
If one limb was stronger than the other, the bow would tilt in the tree cradle.
is the handle flat where it is seated in the cradle, or the cradle slightly radiused? is flat on flat to be avoided such that the bow is free to rock in the cradle if it wants too?
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 02, 2021, 02:43:45 PM
If the limbs aren't balanced, it will rock/tilt.
Post by: williwaw on January 02, 2021, 02:53:32 PM
and are the limbs the same length from fadeout to nock?
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 02, 2021, 03:15:03 PM
Post by: oldandslow on January 02, 2021, 04:43:05 PM
Post by: oldandslow on January 02, 2021, 04:44:28 PM
Post by: oldandslow on January 02, 2021, 04:45:46 PM
Post by: oldandslow on January 02, 2021, 04:46:35 PM
Post by: oldandslow on January 02, 2021, 04:47:33 PM
Post by: oldandslow on January 02, 2021, 04:52:08 PM
Came in light at 32#@28.
Was twisted out of the form and I got it straight but lost quite a bit of wood.
At 7 inch brace the hand vibration is low.
Big Thanks to Roy for his time and patience.
Hopefully it is not beginners luck. It seems to shoot nice tho I have to get out of my garage!
Post by: oldandslow on January 02, 2021, 04:55:33 PM
The lady there was so impressed, she had to show everyone the bow. I quickly mentioned the trad gang help!!
Now the fact is maybe she is easily impressed. But obviously they dont see bowyers very much.
Post by: wood carver 2 on January 02, 2021, 05:15:44 PM
Dave.
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 02, 2021, 05:25:26 PM
Congrats....
I'm on phone now, I can fix your pictures later, maybe tomorrow.
But they are good enough.
You did a heck of a job..
I'm proud of ya.
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 03, 2021, 05:23:33 AM
Where you click "Attachments and other options" to add a picture, then you choose the file then you click insert attachment 1.
Right below where it says Choose file, it says (more attachments).
Click the (more attachments) and then you have to select choose file in a window that opens right under your last file you choose.
Then you have to click insert attachment 2 to add that picture.
Before you click insert attachment 2, hit the enter key in the text box here to add a space between your last picture.
Otherwise your pictures will be stacked right on top of the other.
Here is a link to trad gang forum help, scroll down to pictures.
http://www.tradgang.com/tgsmf/index.php?topic=169125.0
Post by: Bowjunkie on January 03, 2021, 07:43:38 AM
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 03, 2021, 08:01:25 AM
It takes a while to explain things about limb timing.
I'm getting just like ya bro:)
Feel free to add anything ya think I may have over looked.
Just keep it short, like 2,000 words or less:)
Maybe explain the static versus dynamic points and why?
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 03, 2021, 08:29:09 AM
You can see it has a long string on it but it's not at any kind of brace, I pull the string down to hook up the pull rope..
Sometimes a bow just tracks the line from the very first pull on the tree, sometimes:)
My tree cradle was setup different back then, the ends of the cradle were cut at an angle and the angle of the cut riser sat down in it. I changed it to a flat cradle because all the pressure was on the top and bottom 1/2" section of the grip area.
https://youtu.be/UWFJ7e7DlVc
Post by: williwaw on January 03, 2021, 11:28:03 PM
Quote
Maybe explain the static versus dynamic points and whyyes, that would be nice
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 04, 2021, 10:12:05 AM
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I use the fine side of a farriers rasp and rasp from the belly to the core lam, stopping at the edge of the core lam.
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I got a little sick when I came upon a pin knot after removing some wood, have no choice but to keep going and pray it doesn't cause a failure. This is the biggest problem making wood bows, the lams looked perfect till I did the facets and out it popped. DAMMIT...
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Got the riser roughed in pretty well, it will be finished at final sanding.
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Post by: Roy from Pa on January 04, 2021, 10:18:36 AM
Always rasp from the boo towards the core lam, if you rasp towards the boo, there is a good chance of causing a splinter in the boo.
After rasping the facets in, I smooth them up with a cabinet scraper, then sand with a long sanding block with 220 paper.
I round off the edges of the belly facets on the belly lam then scrape and sand smooth.
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 04, 2021, 10:21:55 AM
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Here it is all ready to tiller. The line in the middle is for 3 under tillering.
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First pull on the tree rope and it is tracking right on the line, that's perfect.
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Post by: Roy from Pa on January 04, 2021, 10:26:14 AM
Post by: Flem on January 04, 2021, 10:28:21 AM
Do you think the mechanical advantage from using 2 pulleys might affect the actual poundage reading?
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 04, 2021, 10:31:19 AM
When I scale the weight, I hook the scale right on the bow string and pull the scale down by hand.
Post by: Flem on January 04, 2021, 11:30:56 AM
Think I better have another cup of coffee
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 04, 2021, 11:45:34 AM
Post by: kennym on January 04, 2021, 12:03:22 PM
Gonna wrap the pin knot area wif balin wire ?
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 04, 2021, 12:06:38 PM
Ifin I can find pink balin wire:)
Post by: kennym on January 04, 2021, 12:29:40 PM
baking wire might be too... LOL
Post by: Buemaker on January 04, 2021, 12:43:44 PM
Post by: Flem on January 04, 2021, 01:05:10 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 04, 2021, 03:03:47 PM
Post by: Mad Max on January 04, 2021, 05:00:54 PM
Post by: Mad Max on January 07, 2021, 10:34:23 AM
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 07, 2021, 10:53:54 AM
Post by: Mad Max on January 07, 2021, 11:23:50 AM
Possibly today there ole Maxi-Redneck-Boy
Your going to have to draw me a new Avatar :tongue:
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 07, 2021, 11:44:12 AM
Post by: oldandslow on January 08, 2021, 07:51:47 PM
I then took it off the tiller stick and tried pulling by hand and bang...top limb exploded. The glue up looked good, the limb shattered over a foot.
So, what am I doing wrong here? There's nothing obvious to suggest there was a bad spot in the wood.
Post by: Longcruise on January 08, 2021, 08:33:57 PM
Post by: oldandslow on January 08, 2021, 09:07:25 PM
Post by: Mad Max on January 08, 2021, 09:16:08 PM
Post by: oldandslow on January 08, 2021, 09:45:23 PM
Post by: Mad Max on January 08, 2021, 11:09:59 PM
what kind of wood?
Post by: oldandslow on January 08, 2021, 11:19:08 PM
Osage belly, maple lam and hickory backing
Post by: Longcruise on January 08, 2021, 11:20:03 PM
Post by: oldandslow on January 08, 2021, 11:27:36 PM
Any ideas on what the moisture content of the wood was?
No clue and no way to measure it...gonna go with dry
Post by: Longcruise on January 09, 2021, 01:30:27 AM
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 09, 2021, 06:30:32 AM
This is why you need to take those types of pictures as your build moves along so we can see how the limbs are bending.
My guess is you had a hinge there.
Your bow should have a smooth arc in it without any sudden little hinges.
That is a high stress area.
If this is the bow that broke, looking back at your picture,, your limbs look flat and they are doing all the bending right outside the riser. That bending at that point could cause your failure.
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 09, 2021, 06:47:37 AM
Remember I wrote this back on page 12, post # 220.
"I got a little sick when I came upon a pin knot after removing some wood, have no choice but to keep going and pray it doesn't cause a failure. This is the biggest problem making wood bows, the lams looked perfect till I did the facets and out it popped. DAMMIT..."
Well as I was tillering it yesterday, the right limb was stiff, I removed some wood from it 3 times and it kept getting stiffer. I thought this is not right, then I looked at the bottom limb and I seen why.
The belly cracked the whole width right at that damn pin knot. I had a feeling it could happen the first time I seen the pin knot and it did. Never again will I continue to tiller a bow if I come across a pin knot in the belly wood like that one.
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Post by: Roy from Pa on January 09, 2021, 06:50:52 AM
And started another.
Laying out the Z splice.
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Glued and clamped.
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Covered with foil and a rag with a light under it.
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Post by: Buemaker on January 09, 2021, 06:56:27 AM
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 09, 2021, 07:00:40 AM
But this was all my fault, I should have just cut the bow up when the pin knot appeared.
Post by: oldandslow on January 09, 2021, 07:17:58 AM
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 09, 2021, 07:27:56 AM
Check out that link above and make yourself a gizmo.
They really help by showing you where you have low spots in your belly wood.
After you removed wood, did you exercise the bow at least 25 times on the tree to the same distance you were pulling it at?
It takes a while for the limbs to react to wood removal.
Maybe contact Eric Krewson for more info as some of his pictures were removed I believe.
Post by: OldRawhide42 on January 09, 2021, 07:55:41 AM
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 09, 2021, 08:25:05 AM
:laughing: :thumbsup:
Post by: oldandslow on January 09, 2021, 08:28:55 AM
Post by: Buemaker on January 09, 2021, 08:31:39 AM
Post by: Buemaker on January 09, 2021, 08:34:19 AM
Post by: oldandslow on January 09, 2021, 09:35:05 AM
I'm outta osage...need another belly wood.
Purple heart is easy to get.
Post by: Mad Max on January 09, 2021, 10:03:55 AM
sorry about that :scared:
Post by: Pat B on January 09, 2021, 10:28:45 AM
Sorry for the losses guys but like George Tsoukalsa always says...if you ain't breaking them you ain't making them.
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 09, 2021, 11:18:20 AM
Thanks guys, it's all part of making wooden bows.
Post by: mmattockx on January 09, 2021, 11:58:01 AM
Don’t mean to steal your thread, but here is one of mine with Osage belly kindly supplied by Roy.
Is there a full draw shot of this one?
Mark
Post by: Buemaker on January 09, 2021, 01:28:33 PM
Post by: oldandslow on January 09, 2021, 01:46:20 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 09, 2021, 03:55:13 PM
Wade, see that curve the length of the bow?
That's what you are shooting for.
Post by: Mad Max on January 09, 2021, 04:07:08 PM
Trying to picture the tiller process on a glass bow... :dunno:
Glass bows are design, thickness taper and width taper.
If it's out of wack, you can sand the glass on one side or trap it (sand the corners from fade to tip 45*) on the strong limb :thumbsup:
Post by: oldandslow on January 09, 2021, 08:59:41 PM
Nice, Bue.
Wade, see that curve the length of the bow?
That's what you are shooting for.
Was eyeing that up...got my next bow in the warmer now!👍
Post by: Bvas on January 09, 2021, 09:58:46 PM
But don't feel bad cause I lost mine too.
This is how that little wood stove gets so hot.
Sitting around the “bow shop” making firewood. :campfire:
Post by: mmattockx on January 09, 2021, 11:00:23 PM
It is some time since this one was made, this pic was taken before finish sanding and I think I adjusted left limb a bit. Probably come out upside down.
I find it interesting that all the R/D in the unstrung shape comes out when braced, usually you can see some of that original shape even when drawn.
Mark
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 10, 2021, 06:04:21 AM
Here we sit like birds in the wilderness waiting for Bvas to make a bow:)
:wavey:
Z splices look pretty good, core lam is gray elm, belly is Osage.
Used EA40 for glue.
Post by: oldandslow on January 10, 2021, 07:27:14 PM
Been wondering that for a while...
Post by: Mad Max on January 10, 2021, 08:28:59 PM
Oven Curing Thermostat
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Post by: oldandslow on January 10, 2021, 08:43:32 PM
Post by: Longcruise on January 11, 2021, 12:21:33 AM
Post by: kennym on January 11, 2021, 10:54:24 AM
I still heat all I build except the TD I've used hunting and target shooting for last 4 years .
I cured it at 70 in shop , but feel better about heat resistance when I heat . But it does cure at 70 I reckon... :)
Post by: Flem on January 11, 2021, 12:20:21 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 11, 2021, 01:29:20 PM
Should have cut it up when I seen the knot.
Thanks Kenny
Post by: kennym on January 11, 2021, 03:02:22 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 11, 2021, 04:08:01 PM
LOL
I just seen the Kednny
LMAO
Post by: oldandslow on January 11, 2021, 09:38:17 PM
Post by: Mad Max on January 11, 2021, 11:08:35 PM
what is trapping?
Start at the fade and sand to the tip on 1 limb to make it weaker
(https://i.imgur.com/z1K1CEt.jpg)
Post by: mmattockx on January 11, 2021, 11:40:58 PM
what is trapping?
Usually the chamfers are much bigger than shown in MM's drawing. It is called trapping because you make the limb cross section into a trapezoid (or close to it). The attached picture shows two ways to trap a bow limb. The wider side of the section is the belly side.
Fibreglass bowyers and wood bowyers tend to use it for different reasons. As MM says, it reduces limb stiffness. FG bowyers use it to drop weight when a bow turns out much heavier than intended. Wood bowyers use it to reduce stresses on the belly and increase them on the back. This is done because wood typically fails in compression well before it fails in tension. Trapping helps to balance the stresses so that the belly doesn't fail well before the back.
Mark
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 12, 2021, 05:30:04 AM
Post by: oldandslow on January 12, 2021, 06:41:12 AM
Post by: oldandslow on January 12, 2021, 06:44:09 AM
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 12, 2021, 06:55:15 AM
Prolly only 1/8th at the tips.
Post by: Mad Max on January 12, 2021, 06:58:21 AM
Trying to picture the tiller process on a glass bow... :dunno:He asked this ? on comment #262
That's why I said one limb :thumbsup: my bad
(https://i.imgur.com/z1K1CEt.jpg)
Post by: oldandslow on January 12, 2021, 07:20:43 AM
Trapping for a BBO bow is about the same as the facets I rasp in the back and belly edges of the limbs. But you take the facets on the back of the bow in further to trap it more like Mark stated above.
Bear with me now...I am a little slow.
So your saying that the back gets more chamfer than the belly?
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 12, 2021, 07:38:41 AM
So your saying that the back gets more chamfer than the belly?
Only if you want to trap the back more.
I normally do the back and belly the same.
But trapping the back on a wooden bow is a good thing.
So yes you could put more chamfer on the back.
Post by: oldandslow on January 12, 2021, 02:06:28 PM
Post by: oldandslow on January 16, 2021, 07:22:14 PM
Post by: oldandslow on January 16, 2021, 10:37:04 PM
Anything else?
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 17, 2021, 06:48:45 AM
You have come a long way pretty quickly.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Post by: oldandslow on January 17, 2021, 09:03:05 AM
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 17, 2021, 09:15:34 AM
Did you make and use the gizmo?
Post by: oldandslow on January 17, 2021, 09:27:34 AM
Work gets in the way....
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 17, 2021, 09:42:58 AM
Ya must have a good teacher:)
Video below of flattening the back of the boo.
Check out the dust deputy collecting the dust.... They work great..
I don't worry about the nodes causing a slightly thinner spot because this is just roughing it in.
After this step, I trace out my bow pattern on the boo and cut it out, then I use the edge sander to taper the boo from 1/8th at the riser to 1/16th at the tips and finish the taper with a toothing plane. That gets rid of those tiny thinner sections where the nodes are.
https://youtu.be/QmQ9K3iiL7U
Flattened boo with bow pattern laying next to it.
Post by: Mad Max on January 17, 2021, 09:54:44 AM
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 17, 2021, 09:56:06 AM
Post by: mmattockx on January 17, 2021, 11:15:53 AM
Wade ya old coot, that's pretty damn good.
I would agree with that. The left limb is a touch stiffer (I would make that the bottom limb if it were me) and may be bending very slightly more mid-limb than the right but that is very decent.
If that is full draw then I would say it's time to cut the handle in and throw some arrows to see how it feels. If that is not full draw then I would stay away from the fades and take a bit off the outer 2/3 of both limbs to get to full draw.
Mark
Post by: oldandslow on January 17, 2021, 11:36:43 AM
That has been made the bottom limb and i plan the handle cutting today.
Thnx
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 17, 2021, 11:50:49 AM
Post by: oldandslow on January 17, 2021, 12:15:10 PM
That facet rasping thing was a good tip.
Never did that on the previous limbs. It gives a nice round over after blending them in.
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 17, 2021, 12:39:33 PM
Post by: Mad Max on January 17, 2021, 12:57:20 PM
I guess that is why mine are to heavy.
I always start out, on selfbows, scrape the corners, back and belly rounded then tiller scrape the belly and corners.
Yours are close to weight after that facets and rounding some?
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 17, 2021, 01:12:05 PM
Then I round over all edges and sand smooth.
You can take the top in more towards the center on the boo, that really traps it, but don't get crazy.
Hitting weight with a bbo is tricky cause every piece of wood is a little different.
It's better to lean towards a little heavy to start cause ya got to remove wood while tillering.
After those facets are rasped in, I then round off those edges and sand smooth.
Here you can see the round belly, rough facets first then rounded over.
And the damn crack...
Post by: Mad Max on January 17, 2021, 02:12:52 PM
Sorry bout the dead gum knot :(
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 17, 2021, 03:33:27 PM
Post by: Longcruise on January 17, 2021, 03:52:50 PM
It is full draw but more weight than I want.
That has been made the bottom limb and i plan the handle cutting today.
Thnx
I think at least some of the look of the bottom limb is because the bow is slightly tipped to the right. Roy's ellipse tells the story better.
Post by: oldandslow on January 17, 2021, 05:33:25 PM
It is full draw but more weight than I want.
That has been made the bottom limb and i plan the handle cutting today.
Thnx
I think at least some of the look of the bottom limb is because the bow is slightly tipped to the right. Roy's ellipse tells the story better.
That ellipse is a good tool
Post by: oldandslow on February 02, 2021, 03:26:07 AM
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 02, 2021, 03:43:01 AM
Post by: kennym on February 02, 2021, 08:13:12 AM
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 02, 2021, 08:16:16 AM
Post by: kennym on February 02, 2021, 08:37:37 AM
Post by: Flem on February 02, 2021, 10:17:51 AM
Looks like a compressive failure , parallel to the grain ;)
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 02, 2021, 11:37:15 AM
[ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Post by: mmattockx on February 02, 2021, 11:39:13 AM
Pin knot ran the whole way across the limb.
Roy,
How thick was the belly wood over top of that knot? That is, how much sound wood was there between the knot and the surface of the belly? Do you have a good side shot of that area?
Mark
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 02, 2021, 11:45:09 AM
Other side. I posted all these pictures before...
Post by: mmattockx on February 02, 2021, 02:14:01 PM
About 1/4", that is a side shot and there is evidence on the other side that the twig ran clear across the belly.
Other side. I posted all these pictures before...
I know, but this time I got to wondering how much good wood there was on the belly because you don't really need much to carry the loads. The knot must have caused some prying/separating action in the core that lead to the failure.
Mark
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 02, 2021, 03:22:22 PM
It's water over the dam now anyway,
Post by: Bvas on February 02, 2021, 07:12:16 PM
It's water over the dam now anyway,Don’t ya mean fire in the stove?
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 02, 2021, 08:07:46 PM
Post by: Pat B on February 03, 2021, 09:48:28 AM
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 03, 2021, 12:24:37 PM
Post by: oldandslow on February 03, 2021, 04:16:48 PM
Post by: Buemaker on February 10, 2021, 06:33:28 AM
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 10, 2021, 06:38:56 AM
Post by: Buemaker on February 10, 2021, 06:57:34 AM
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 10, 2021, 07:17:55 AM
I have made 12" risers before, even thought about making them 10 inches.
Post by: oldandslow on February 11, 2021, 06:03:50 PM
Post by: oldandslow on February 11, 2021, 06:23:14 PM
Basically I'm thinking from the flares to tip.
Would that work?
Post by: Mad Max on February 11, 2021, 06:35:21 PM
Hey Roy, got any info on type of leather for a hand grip? Any threads that show an how to?
Pig or deer leather (ebay) work best for handle wraps, the leather you get a leather work shop are to thick but you can get a few needles there .
Google for a youtube :thumbsup:
Post by: Mad Max on February 11, 2021, 06:40:18 PM
And another question...on a wood bow like you have done here...can a guy put a figured maple veneer over top a hickory backing?
Basically I'm thinking from the flares to tip.
Would that work?
Instead of using Boo for backing you could use Hickory or any other backing strip, anything else over the backing may not hold up.
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 11, 2021, 06:48:49 PM
Post by: wood carver 2 on February 11, 2021, 06:51:45 PM
Dave.
Post by: oldandslow on February 11, 2021, 07:01:54 PM
We have a fabric shop nearby that sells leather remnants. I have found pieces of thin, soft clothing leather left over from making jackets. It’s pretty stretchy and makes really nice grips.
Dave.
Do you just glue it or stich and glue?
Post by: oldandslow on February 11, 2021, 07:02:21 PM
A figured lam would most likely break.
[/quote
K.
Post by: Mad Max on February 11, 2021, 07:45:48 PM
Post by: oldandslow on February 11, 2021, 08:08:20 PM
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=leathergrip+selfbow
I have watched big Jim's video. Thought someone here may have made a detailed how to