Trad Gang
Main Boards => PowWow => Topic started by: BAK on June 29, 2021, 09:11:24 AM
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OK, so I was looking at the great thread on favorite knife pics. The Randall knife really got my attention, UNTIL I checked there web site and saw it is a 5 to 6 year wait if you order one. Who does that? I might wait a year tops but SIX? :banghead:
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I guess it depends. No way would I give anybody my money to hold for six years. OTOH, if it was just a small refundable deposit to hold my place in line, I might consider it….if i wasn't already 76. Being 76 puts a whole nuther meaning on a six year wait!
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6 years? Nope lol. I can't wait 6 months for a bow.
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If you go to the big auction site, you can probably find the Randall you're looking for right now -- new and used.
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There are several retail websites that offer Randall Knives, of course what is in stock would be a question. You could have a Randall on the way by the end of the day most likely.
I'm on the waitlist for a couple of knives. The makers do not require a deposit. They will let me know when my name comes up then they will make my knife. The one I don't think I will ever get, communication has not been good. The other it might be 4 or 5 years. Communication has been great, if the maker and I are both alive at the time my name comes up then I'll have a nice knife on the way.
I'm in no rush to get something I haven't paid for yet.
I've waited on bows from top notch bowyers. Never been disappointed upon arrival. Communication was clear and updated as needed.
I think in these situation clear expectations, clear communication, reasonable updates as needed go along way to keeping everyone happy.
If your happy waiting might as well wait. If you would not be happy in such a situation then don't put yourself in a waiting situation. Plenty of bows, knives, whatever out their in the world to be happy with.
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It's not that I can afford one of them now anyway, just surprised at the length of time. I'm at the same age group as McDave too, no longer making extended long range plans. :o
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I would not wait that long for a knife, bow, etc. There are a lot of great makers/builders/artists out there. Life is to short.
If someone or a company has a backlog that is years long…they need to buck up and hire some help, take on an apprentice or two.
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You only have to wait that long for the first one. You order one every year.....after the 5th year....one shows up every year. It only requires a $50 deposit. I've been doing that for several decades now.
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Hell I have been waiting for USPS to deliver a bow for close to a month now and I'm all anxious as anything. 6 years for a knife, nope
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I would not wait that long for a knife, bow, etc. There are a lot of great makers/builders/artists out there. Life is to short.
If someone or a company has a backlog that is years long…they need to buck up and hire some help, take on an apprentice or two.
I agree with the first part of your post.
I don’t necessarily agree with the last part.
It’s not always about “bucking up” and hiring help.
Some people are so quality conscious they have a hard time trusting someone else to meet their expectations.
They have a waiting list for a reason and I’m sure it’s because of their reputation and quality. Every one on their list knows what that wait time is before hand and they still choose to wait! Sounds to me like they are completely comfortable where they are at and they have plenty of work in the future with no down time!
Good for them!
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6 years? Nope lol. I can't wait 6 months for a bow.
EXACTLY LOL
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You can't buy a better blade than a Benchmade. Sure they might put a polished piece of wood on it or chunk of antler. But that doesn't help me skin a deer or defend myself in a H2H situation.
I won't wait at a restaurant for 45 minutes to be seated so I think that pretty much tells you what my time line is.
I do agree with Randy about CQ and assistants not always cutting it. That said a craftsman with multiple persons working on their product has to be as focused on what they do as anything and in the end they probably aren't being as much of a craftsman as they are a manager.
A one year wait is what kept me from ordering a Mountain Monarch. Then I found out how good Primal Tech bows were and went that direction. That said I am jonesing right now waiting on another set of limbs for my Primal Tech.
However, when I get them, I'll know the craftsman/artist who built them did them himself just for me and the wait will have been well worth it.
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As a user and collector of custom knives, I can shed a little more light on the topic. Knives are like guns, bows, cars....pretty much anything that is man made. There are tons of production knives. Literally thousands of them. Benchmade falls into that category and there's nothing wrong with a Benchmade. They're a decent knife for the money and to their credit they make their knives here in the US. But they are a production knife and that imposes some limitations....meaning you get what they make. No options, period.
Custom knives are a whole nuther animal. They are that. Custom. You get it your way. If one has the means, the world of custom knives is like custom bows. When you hold a knife from S.R. Johnson, Steve Young, or the man himself, Bob Loveless, you know you're holding a knife that's a true work of art. Randall's are hand forged, hand ground, hand polished etc. In today's hurry up world, lots of folks don't want to wait 5 years for a knife. I get that. Those willing to wait are rewarded with an incredible knife. Those not willing to wait, the world of off the shelf production knives are waiting for you.
I started collecting and using them decades ago. Some old timers on this site will remember the story of my brother accidentally dropping one in the porta potty at Cloverdale one year. Yep....he reached down in there, got it back and brought it back to camp and boiled it for a half hour.
Like a custom now, some might decide a Randall isn't worth the money, takes too long to get etc.... I enjoy them. I've carried a model 3-5 in my huntin pack for close to 25 yrs.
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No I waited a year once for a bow and never again. Too many things can happen 3-4 months maybe.
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I agree with what Crittergetter said, and would add that everyone should find out what he's good at, and stick with it. I did that as an accountant. I found out that I was good at doing tax returns, but lousy at managing people. So after some painful experiences finding out just how lousy I was at managing people, I opened my own shop with just me and a part-time bookkeeper who worked with me for the next 45 years. The only thing that made it work with that bookkeeper was that she was as bad at getting along with people as I was at managing them. But she was a great bookkeeper. So over those 45 years, I managed to accumulate enough to retire and avoided an ulcer. My clients were torn between fear that I would fire them and fear that they would pi$$ off my bookkeeper. I probably could have made a lot more if I had managed a bigger firm rather than do all the work myself, but given my management skills, that's kind of like saying that I could win the Trad Worlds if I only practiced a little harder. HA!
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I get the quality control argument….but at some point put a hold on taking new orders if the backlog is that long. 5-6 years….half a decade or more is ridiculous.
I would not wait that long for a knife, bow, etc. There are a lot of great makers/builders/artists out there. Life is to short.
If someone or a company has a backlog that is years long…they need to buck up and hire some help, take on an apprentice or two.
I agree with the first part of your post.
I don’t necessarily agree with the last part.
It’s not always about “bucking up” and hiring help.
Some people are so quality conscious they have a hard time trusting someone else to meet their expectations.
They have a waiting list for a reason and I’m sure it’s because of their reputation and quality. Every one on their list knows what that wait time is before hand and they still choose to wait! Sounds to me like they are completely comfortable where they are at and they have plenty of work in the future with no down time!
Good for them!
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They have had a long wait time for many years and it grows a little longer every year. And yet they are still in business. That says something. I have a Randall that was a retirement gift and yes it was ordered four years ahead , my boss really pulled one off on me;)
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There are currently more than 1,000 Randall knives listed on the big auction site. Just about every model they make in various configurations, often with several examples of any one model. Should be something there that matches your taste, and can buy it now. No waiting. Took me about five minutes to compare three versions of the same model and buy it. Price was about what one would expect to pay if one ordered it. Lots more listed by various knife retailers throughout the country.
Most of those who place orders now are collectors and resellers who place multiple orders for knives every year and resell them as they get them in often at slightly higher prices, but sometimes substantially higher prices, than they paid. But, if you truly want a Randall knife, it's available now.
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Went to their website,and those are some impressive knives. I've always wondered about the big website,and it you might get stung with a fake :dunno:
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BAK, Nordic knives has weekly arrivals on the Randall and if you want a special model with a $40,00 deposit and 4 months wait you can have what you want,just 80-90$ over Randall Made factory prices.
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I got them in 8 months
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Some good info here, thanks guys. :thumbsup:
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Went to their website,and those are some impressive knives. I've always wondered about the big website,and it you might get stung with a fake :dunno:
It's best to buy from a reputable dealer. Nordic is one of the best. There are lots of stories of guys getting stung on the auction site. Just like buying bows or anything else. Lots of fake Randall's out there.
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Doubt there are very many fake Randalls or any other high end knives out there. Counterfeiters would have to put in too much time to even get close to the same quality to pass them off as legit. Just not worth their time to do it.
Regardless, as with any other purchase of some import, the buyer needs to do the homework. Check feedback on the site, contact the seller, ask for references, etc.
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Doubt there are very many fake Randalls or any other high end knives out there. Counterfeiters would have to put in too much time to even get close to the same quality to pass them off as legit. Just not worth their time to do it.
Regardless, as with any other purchase of some import, the buyer needs to do the homework. Check feedback on the site, contact the seller, ask for references, etc.
There are more than you think. Google foo is your friend. Average Chinese wages are about $1200 a month. So if you can sucker someone in the US into paying $350 for a fake Randall, that makes it worth it for the counterfeiter.
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Toelke and a bowyer that will not be named taught me a valuable lesson. Long wait times do not necessarily mean great products. Toelke is the best shooter I got and it took five weeks. Now they’re are plenty of great makers on the web with wait times less. If six years is your bench. I’d learn to forge and make my own in that time.
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I waited 2.5 years for my Shiloh Sharps Quigley in 45-110... As you can see it was worth the wait.
(https://i.imgur.com/GJ0mA0Uh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Jd1l61nh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/DwizZ6wh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/9FbDZF0h.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Dh8wPFWh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Y413eH3h.jpg)
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Then you will have people upset that they can’t get on the list. How long should he put a hold on orders? Year, 2,or5? No telling how many orders he would lose during that time because inevitably there will be customers that where willing to wait that could no longer get on the list. So if he holds off on orders for a few years while he catches up then the customer has essentially waited a few years just to get back on a list... :dunno: cause I bet there will still be a line of people waiting.
I get the quality control argument….but at some point put a hold on taking new orders if the backlog is that long. 5-6 years….half a decade or more is ridiculous.
I would not wait that long for a knife, bow, etc. There are a lot of great makers/builders/artists out there. Life is to short.
If someone or a company has a backlog that is years long…they need to buck up and hire some help, take on an apprentice or two.
I agree with the first part of your post.
I don’t necessarily agree with the last part.
It’s not always about “bucking up” and hiring help.
Some people are so quality conscious they have a hard time trusting someone else to meet their expectations.
They have a waiting list for a reason and I’m sure it’s because of their reputation and quality. Every one on their list knows what that wait time is before hand and they still choose to wait! Sounds to me like they are completely comfortable where they are at and they have plenty of work in the future with no down time!
Good for them!
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I got a Randal off the auction site I paid more than factory price for it but it was a new knife I received . It took me less than a week to get it when I called the Randal shop they told me 9 years . I have another Randal that the front half of the blade is not hardened and the new one i got is nothing special as far as a working knife. I wouldn't buy another there are as good or better knives for sale .I guess its the name we look at .
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Lots of makers of all sorts of things have years wait lists. If they’re taking money I’d never do it but if only adding a name to the list until it gets closer I can’t see the harm. We wait for lots of stuff boys, this is small time
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I am a knife nut and I paid top dollar for knives but there's no way I am waiting five or six years for a knife. It's hard for me to wait 6 months to a year for a bow.
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Lol....some of you guys must think that you have to sit still on a chair for 6 years. Here's what you do. You throw em $50, then go about your life. One day, a knife shows up. Wait??? What wait...?? Go live life and forget about it. LMAO......
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Or you've had your 5th and fatal heart attack and never realized the dream of the knife because the guy can't produce for his customers.
I agree it's ridiculous. The hype probably way outweighs the product. I have a couple of customs and they sit in a drawer and more serviceable knives get used for real world applications.
But I'm no collector. I've no use for something that has no use. A Kershaw I've cleaned at least 200 pigs with means a lot more to me that something with some guy I've never met name on it. But to each his own. Some guys have 50 bows. Some of us don't own 5 even though we could afford 50.
Everyone does their thing. If you think it's worth the wait then for you, it dang sure is! Thank goodness we live in America.
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Why would you say a Randall has no use?
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From a strickly consumers view, I find it hard to believe that this knife I would be waiting 5 years or more for does not have an equal that I could get in less time. Same goes for me with bows. I'm sure I can get a high quality bow by waiting for one to be built for me, but I can also buy one used that will give me equal value in the long run.
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No way I would wait six years on a knife.
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From a strickly consumers view, I find it hard to believe that this knife I would be waiting 5 years or more for does not have an equal that I could get in less time. Same goes for me with bows. I'm sure I can get a high quality bow by waiting for one to be built for me, but I can also buy one used that will give me equal value in the long run.
You'll never make money on a used bow.
I've never met anyone who sold a Randall for less than what they paide for it.
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Why would you say a Randall has no use?
I was speaking of "collector's items" in general for me. I don't collect anything just because. I buy tools. Now it may be a purty tool but it is to be used. It will get dinged up, dropped, etc.
I know some folks do collect. Keep this in new/in the box condition, yada yada. That just isn't me.
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No argument. Here's what I don't get. We all buy $1,000 bows and $40,000 pickup trucks, but won't use a $500 knife??? Talk about stupid.....
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I've never lost a bow.
I've lost several knives.
My bow never gets used as a screw driver, or to dig a broadhead out of a tree root, or trim wire insulation, or open a can of Ranch style beans to put on the fire or . . .
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My wife doesn't like the fact that I pay $150 for a pair of sunglasses. I never have lost a pair of $150 sunglasses. She says she loses her sunglasses all the time and that's why she only buys $10 sunglasses.
I tell her she loses her sunglasses all the time cause she only buys $10 sunglasses.
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From a strickly consumers view, I find it hard to believe that this knife I would be waiting 5 years or more for does not have an equal that I could get in less time. Same goes for me with bows. I'm sure I can get a high quality bow by waiting for one to be built for me, but I can also buy one used that will give me equal value in the long run.
You'll never make money on a used bow.
I've never met anyone who sold a Randall for less than what they paide for it.
I don't put value based on cost but rather performance and use. I picked up a used Robertson recurve, it has outperformed every bow I have ever owned or shot. And I got it within a month and without emptying the bank account. I bought a knife for 30 bucks that will do everything I need. How do I justify a long wait and greater expense.
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Why would anyone buy a Mickey Mantle baseball card, a Bitcoin, or a Picasso drawing? These are all basically useless things that have achieved great value because there is a “market” for them (or possibly because of the “greater fool theory” as you choose). At least a Randall knife has a potential use, although most people who buy one probably won't take advantage of that. I myself have several knives made by Clarence Smitherman (probably spelled his name wrong) that I will probably never use, or sell, simply because I appreciate his workmanship. They aren't my favorite knife, which I already pointed out in a previous post. I doubt if anyone would give me $5 for my favorite knife, in its current condition. I wouldn't wait five years for a knife either, but I appreciate people who would, simply because it adds to the diversity of life, which would be pretty boring if everyone were like me.
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I am not inclined to wait very long for a knife, because it is easy to find very nice knives for a reasonable cost without the long wait. If I were a collector, that may make a difference. As a young guy I once bought a very nice skinning knife from a maker in Alabama that I envisioned to be the beginning of a nice collection. However, I took it to deer camp and promptly dropped it in the dirt which scratched it just a little. I was very upset until I realized it is a TOOL. If I can't use a knife and get it dirty, I don't need it. So, from then on I have bought practical knives at a reasonable price, and I don't hesitate to use them. Wait time is strictly a personal matter, and each person should make their choice as to how long that wait time should be. For me a few weeks is enough.
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Why would anyone buy a Mickey Mantle baseball card, a Bitcoin, or a Picasso drawing? These are all basically useless things that have achieved great value because there is a “market” for them (or possibly because of the “greater fool theory” as you choose). At least a Randall knife has a potential use, although most people who buy one probably won't take advantage of that. I myself have several knives made by Clarence Smitherman (probably spelled his name wrong) that I will probably never use, or sell, simply because I appreciate his workmanship. They aren't my favorite knife, which I already pointed out in a previous post. I doubt if anyone would give me $5 for my favorite knife, in its current condition. I wouldn't wait five years for a knife either, but I appreciate people who would, simply because it adds to the diversity of life, which would be pretty boring if everyone were like me.
McDave gets it.
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Buy what you want, wait as long as you want. But, for me, in a five or six year time span my priorities/desires/needs would likely change. And, owning that knife (or whatever) wouldn't mean nearly as much as if I would have had it "much" closer to the time I thought I needed it.
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I am not inclined to wait very long for a knife, because it is easy to find very nice knives for a reasonable cost without the long wait. If I were a collector, that may make a difference. As a young guy I once bought a very nice skinning knife from a maker in Alabama that I envisioned to be the beginning of a nice collection. However, I took it to deer camp and promptly dropped it in the dirt which scratched it just a little. I was very upset until I realized it is a TOOL. If I can't use a knife and get it dirty, I don't need it. So, from then on I have bought practical knives at a reasonable price, and I don't hesitate to use them. Wait time is strictly a personal matter, and each person should make their choice as to how long that wait time should be. For me a few weeks is enough.
This is basically the experience I've had with custom knives. They look great until used. Then it's just a knife. One I spent way more than I should have on.
But I know a guy who has a collection of classic corvettes. They are perfectly restored and cool to look at if you are into that sort of thing.
Me, I just repaired his 4 post lift and left. To me they don't mean anything.
It's like anything else in life. This individual has her/his own tastes, likes and interests. Variety is the greatness of keeping everything interesting.
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I have a Randall knife that my dad bought me for my 40th birthday. I always wanted one and he made it happen. The story is kind of interesting. Frustrated by the wait time, my mother persisted until she finally was told about a sale that they have (or did at that time) once a year where they sell the knives that people have defaulted on their deposit or cancelled their order. The sale was live at their shop, which is only about an hour from us. On the appointed day, I took the day off from work and we showed up about an hour ahead of time. We were given a number and told that when our number was called we would have 10 minutes or so to select a knife for purchase. Like I said, we were there an hour early (like 6:30 AM) and my number was 42. As I recall, there were a little over 100 knives for sale. We were told that after they worked through the people in line, they would start over at #1 again and anyone that wanted to could purchase a second knife. When my number was called, we went through and selected the knife that I wanted. I think that we were the only people there that were not intent on buying multiple knives. There were some hard core collectors there. I was there to get a birthday present and did not want to diminish the gift by getting another. The funny thing is that they did not give us the knives at purchase. They took our payment and mailed the knife within 10 days after a final sharpening/polishing. It was a special experience with my dad.
Randall sells knives through several dealers in Florida. They don't always have what you are looking for, but they usually have a dozen or more in stock. When my son turned 21, my dad bought him a Randall from one of those shops.
My dad has been gone three years last week. I just packed my Randall knife into my bag for a trip to Alaska this week. It's nice to carry a piece of him with me in some small way.
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My wife doesn't like the fact that I pay $150 for a pair of sunglasses. I never have lost a pair of $150 sunglasses. She says she loses her sunglasses all the time and that's why she only buys $10 sunglasses.
I tell her she loses her sunglasses all the time cause she only buys $10 sunglasses.
I was following your logic until you got to this point. I have just under a million dollars worth of Oakleys, Ray Bans, Maui Jims, Costas, and Natives scattered in every body of water in Florida. :biglaugh:
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It's not like it's a hobby maker who might never deliver, it's a Randall. Yeah, I'd wait if I wanted one. That's easy to say since I don't want one.
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Six (6) year wait for a knife? Heck, I can't wait 6 minutes to take a leak . . . and I don't! :o
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No way do I need a very expensive knife, so no I would not even order one let alone wait 5 years.
But different strokes for different folks.
If it's what ya want and don't mind the wait, then go for it:)
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I have three Randal Knives and when I ordered my first one in 2003 I believe it was a four year wait. They told me that people serving in the military going to war jump in front of the line and I thought that was a great thing and I didn't mind waiting for mine. I don't know if that is still true or not.
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Go to Cowboy Knife Auctions on Facebook, and bid on the one you like. I have bought 3 this year from Bob Jankowski and they are flawless. He is one talented knife maker.