Post by: old_goat2 on October 18, 2021, 10:59:06 PM
Post by: The Whittler on October 19, 2021, 09:24:08 AM
Post by: Bamboozle on October 19, 2021, 09:46:09 AM
https://www.tradgang.com/tgsmf/index.php?topic=119535.20
Post by: old_goat2 on October 19, 2021, 10:21:24 AM
Your bow will kill a mouse, moose and anything in between. You just have to put the arrow in the right place. The bow is fine it's all up to you. Good luck.I tend to agree, but as it sits pictured, it tosses a 480gr arrow 172fps and that's at 31"draw, I would want a much heavier arrow for any thing bigger than a deer and then the speed just drops off horrendously as does my accuracy! I had made a Padded Loop Fast Flight string for it and blew up a limb tip, not sure if the FF did that or it was just time for it to go, but I went back to B50, think I lost 4fps there if I remember right.
Post by: old_goat2 on October 19, 2021, 10:22:25 AM
You will find a real answer to your question here most likely.great thread, thanks!
https://www.tradgang.com/tgsmf/index.php?topic=119535.20
Post by: woodchucker on October 19, 2021, 10:42:34 AM
Post by: Bamboozle on October 19, 2021, 10:53:10 AM
Old Goat2, you are certainly welcome. :campfire:
Post by: Trenton G. on October 19, 2021, 12:33:45 PM
http://nebula.wsimg.com/786165a8fdebc0fc3f958a5f6d62d8f3?AccessKeyId=A203C91555201A4407B4&disposition=0&alloworigin=1
Post by: woodchucker on October 19, 2021, 04:16:17 PM
However.... 172fps divided by 3, equals 57.3 YARDS. Still gets there pretty quick!!
When most of us only shoot about 15-20 yards, a few fps, really doesn't make that much difference??
Post by: Bamboozle on October 20, 2021, 08:16:54 AM
Post by: woodchucker on October 20, 2021, 10:59:48 AM
That's what makes TradGang great!!!!
:archer: :archer: :archer: :campfire: :archer: :archer: :archer:
Post by: Sam Spade on October 20, 2021, 11:22:33 AM
Post by: woodchucker on October 20, 2021, 11:54:45 AM
2 bows, same draw weight, same arrow weight. One bow is a few fps faster.
Both shoot deer, at 20 yards, and both are heart shots. 1 arrow got there 2/10 of a second sooner.
Both deer are dead, and dead is dead!! It really doesn't matter which bow was faster??
Can't kill deer with a "slow bow"....?? Tell that to all of the guys here shooting selfbows and vintage recurves. :archer:
Post by: Skates 2 on October 20, 2021, 11:58:34 AM
O'l Ron LaClair won world's with 110# longbow. Ever hear of HH? Pearson? Bear? And many on this site that constantly kill critters with heavier bows.
Post by: woodchucker on October 20, 2021, 12:02:59 PM
Post by: Bamboozle on October 20, 2021, 02:22:21 PM
Also, you didn't even comprehend his post. Can you figure out why?
Post by: woodchucker on October 20, 2021, 03:15:42 PM
He has a Bear 76er with 45# limbs. (assuming they are actually 45#)
He's drawing 31" which at roughly 2 1/2 pounds per inch, puts him at about 52-53#
He's shooting a 480gr arrow, giving him about 9grs per pound. (10grs is about average, but 9 is OK)
He states that he's concerned shooting anything larger than deer, as he's "only" getting 172fps and a heavier arrow would be less.
He tried a FF string with padded loops, and screwed a limb tip. He tried a B-50 string and lost about 4fps.
Bottom line, his concern is speed....
How am I doing...??
Now, If he got a 55# set of limbs, at his 31" draw length he would be drawing about 62-63#
Shooting an appropriate weight arrow (580grs) He would still be getting about 175fps.
Many folks here shoot heavy bows. A heavy bow does not necessarily mean a fast bow.
(a 75# selfbow?? a 90# Hill longbow?? a 65# 1960's Bear Kodiak??)
I have shot 50-55# bows since I started hunting back in 1976. I ordered my Kodiak T/D with 52# limbs.
Just due to the fact that I'm getting old, and some minor shoulder issues, I ordered a set of 42# limbs for my T/D.
I have no issues what so ever with what weight folks shoot!! Shoot what's comfortable for you...
In the end, It's all about your ability to put the arrow in the kill zone. "Speed" is just a number.
Post by: PICKNGRIN on October 20, 2021, 07:07:01 PM
Post by: Possum Head on October 21, 2021, 09:16:11 PM
Post by: Bamboozle on October 22, 2021, 08:21:22 AM
Now you have made the same claim 3 times, and its still not valid. It's clear you have no idea 'what the difference is'.
Have a good day folks. :campfire:
Post by: styksnstryngs on October 22, 2021, 10:00:07 AM
Post by: Sam Spade on October 22, 2021, 10:27:51 AM
The difference between a 480 grain arrow going at 176 fps and a 580 grain arrow going 176 fps is pretty big.
I was hiding and watching to see if anyone would speak up about what you just posted. He asked for the 'heaviest limbs' so if he got 65#ers at 176 with a 680 grain arrow, there is a HUGE difference. Thank you.
Post by: styksnstryngs on October 22, 2021, 10:32:02 AM
I was hiding and watching to see if anyone would speak up about what you just posted. He asked for the 'heaviest limbs' so if he got 65#ers at 176 with a 680 grain arrow, there is a HUGE difference. It absolutely has nothing to do with speed. Nothing. Thank you.Yeah, I mean the setup he has is plenty good for deer, but I don't think many people would want to take that on a moose or even an elk hunt when they can shoot heavier limbs anyways. I don't know about you guys, but I am not going to take a pair of old 45# limbs on a rare and probably pretty expensive moose draw hunt.
Post by: woodchucker on October 22, 2021, 12:08:40 PM
Again, we agree, to disagree... :thumbsup: :campfire: :thumbsup:
Post by: Bamboozle on October 22, 2021, 06:46:54 PM
Well, my friend.....
Again, we agree, to disagree... :thumbsup: :campfire: :thumbsup:
You keep believing that fairy tale.
Post by: woodchucker on October 22, 2021, 07:10:54 PM
Post by: Russell Southerland on October 22, 2021, 07:34:33 PM
Well, my friend.....
Again, we agree, to disagree... :thumbsup: :campfire: :thumbsup:
You keep believing that fairy tale.
Sorry woodchucker, but I'm with Boo on this one. 100%
Post by: woodchucker on October 22, 2021, 07:58:49 PM
As our leader Terry says, "Debate is good! As one sword sharpens the other"
Several times, I have gentlemanly tried to "bow out" however our friend continues to come back with comments directed towards me.... I even sent him a PM early on, suggesting we discuss this between ourselves, lest this thread takes a nasty turn, (I've seen a number over the years) and then Terry steps in and shuts it down.
Our friend has chose not to do that... Nope, not a peep on PM :dunno:
Rule #1, EXPECT to be RESPECTED!!
Many here have different opinions.... We agree, to disagree. That is the gentlemanly thing to do.
However, our friend insists that he knows more than me, and he's gonna make damn sure that I, and everyone else KNOWS IT!!!
So.... Sir Bamboozle, Knower and Teller of all things Traditional Archery and Bowhunting Related....
I hearby surrender to you Sir.... :notworthy:
Post by: Sam Spade on October 22, 2021, 09:12:44 PM
Post by: Cyclic-Rivers on October 22, 2021, 10:33:05 PM
76er, had 3 with 45 lb limbs, I've seen 50 but no heavier.
Deer hunting with a 76er? People do it and are successful annually. Moose hunting? I'm not sure why anyone would.
Post by: Terry Green on October 24, 2021, 06:46:36 PM
These 3 bows were delivered to me back in 2004 to celebrate Tradgang's 1st Anniversary. I have been hunting with the 60 & 70#ers ever since, and Rob has been hunting with the 50#er since then till about 2 years ago when he sent it to me so I could use it in my golden years. (not there yet :laugh:)
So, all made at the same time, by the same bowyer, all the same model, all the same lengths, all the same materials, all the same draw lengths. All also use the same arrow, weight was increased for the 60#er by adding aquarium tubing and head weight change, and the 70#er with weed eater line inside the aquarium tubing and different head weight. All arrow weights were right at 9.5 grains per #, and arrow speed was right at 185-187FPS with all 3 bows. Although the speed might be relevant to the hunter, it is irrelevant in the test as long as all 3 are very close to the same, as well as arrow speed.
Here are the numbers I ran on them back then..... Kinetic Energy and Momentum.
50# - KE = 37.99 - MO = .411
60# - KE = 45.59 - MO = .493
Difference in Percentages - KE = 27.795 % - MO = 19%
This is a very significant increase of power in the two bows.
*************************************************************
50# - KE = 37.99 - MO = .411
70# - KE = 53.19 - MO = .575
Difference in Percentages - KE = 55.804 % - MO - 39.903 %
This is a HUGE increase in the power of the two bows.
Momentum is really the most important number, and its right at a 40% Increase.
So, if the OP old_goat2 went from 45# limbs to 65# limbs, he would expect very close to those same percentages in increase of power.
:campfire:
Post by: styksnstryngs on October 24, 2021, 06:50:12 PM
Hopefully this post will clear the waters...I think this puts into context why people should try to shoot as much weight as comfortable for them-- not because it'll send an arrow faster, but because it can shoot a heavy arrow at a reasonable velocity for hunting purposes.
These 3 bows were delivered to me back in 2004 to celebrate Tradgang's 1st Anniversary. I have been hunting with the 60 & 70#ers ever since, and Rob has been hunting with the 50#er since then till about 2 years ago when he sent it to me so I could use it in my golden years. (not there yet :laugh:)
So, all made at the same time, by the same bowyer, all the same model, all the same lengths, all the same materials, all the same draw lengths. All also use the same arrow, weight was increased for the 60#er by adding aquarium tubing and head weight change, and the 70#er with weed eater line inside the aquarium tubing and different head weight. All arrow weights were right at 9.5 grains per #, and arrow speed was right at 185-187FPS with all 3 bows. Although the speed might be relevant to the hunter, it is irrelevant in the test as long as all 3 are very close to the same, as well as arrow speed.
Here are the numbers I ran on them back then..... Kinetic Energy and Momentum.
50# - KE = 37.99 - MO = .411
60# - KE = 45.59 - MO = .493
Difference in Percentages - KE = 27.795 % - MO = 19%
This is a very significant increase of power in the two bows.
*************************************************************
50# - KE = 37.99 - MO = .411
70# - KE = 53.19 - MO = .575
Difference in Percentages - KE = 55.804 % - MO - 39.903 %
This is a HUGE increase in the power of the two bows.
Momentum is really the most important number, and its right at a 40% Increase.
So, if the OP old_goat2 went from 45# limbs to 65# limbs, he would expect very close to those same percentages in increase of power.
:campfire:
Post by: Sam Spade on October 25, 2021, 09:38:16 AM
Post by: Skates 2 on October 25, 2021, 12:51:38 PM
YES!!! Those are the numbers we have been referring to, but everyone kept them to themselves it seems to see if KE and MO would get mentioned. Thanks, that's about as cold hard facts as you can get. :campfire:
What he said. ^^^ :clapper: :clapper: :clapper:
Post by: Russell Southerland on October 26, 2021, 07:21:47 AM
Post by: old_goat2 on October 26, 2021, 10:16:56 PM