Post by: Flem on December 19, 2021, 09:29:25 AM
But here I go anyways. Hope this satisfies the skeptics.
So this, Too be Bow, was inspired by an old Mexican Lemmon wood board that was given to me by a Mexican furniture maker about 30yrs ago. It was no good for a board bow and I could never bring myself to cut it up for any woodworking project, so its been collecting dust. Recently I had an idea for a tropical themed bow using the Lemmon wood for the limbs and a vintage Teak cutting board, that was also a gift, for the handle. The glass will be a bright yellow/green chartreuse like the Degame foliage. If nothing else, it will be unique! (weird)
Starting from the beginning;
Working on a puzzle today. I'm determined to make a riser out of, what was once a cutting board. Done stacks before, but not stacked and staggered. Thinking one over two, rule of thumb?
Post by: Flem on December 19, 2021, 09:33:25 AM
Its fun to make useful things out of things that look useless.
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Post by: Flem on December 19, 2021, 09:35:08 AM
Thought I would keep at this riser since I'm in the mood. Not a huge fan of stacked risers on an Asl and fat glues lines make me cringe. Going thru the grits to 400 and I'll orient the grain for flow. Trying to make it look as natural as possible.
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Post by: Flem on December 19, 2021, 09:38:00 AM
Lemmon wood has a nice luster sanded to 400 and coated with shellac.
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Post by: Roy from Pa on December 19, 2021, 09:49:47 AM
Post by: Bvas on December 19, 2021, 12:31:07 PM
Flem, you making your own glass to get that color?
Post by: Stagmitis on December 19, 2021, 12:44:09 PM
Post by: Mad Max on December 19, 2021, 01:54:22 PM
Why is it Steaming ? :tongue:
Post by: Appalachian Hillbilly on December 19, 2021, 08:45:58 PM
Post by: Longcruise on December 19, 2021, 09:47:57 PM
Post by: Flem on December 20, 2021, 08:51:39 AM
I like it :thumbsup:
Flem, you making your own glass to get that color?
Thats a yes, unless somebody know where I can get some ugly glass :tongue:
:shaka:
Why is it Steaming ? :tongue:
Dog poo is not real exciting unless you have a visual or olfactory reference :saywhat:
To give fair warning, I am going to break some rules. If you are a by the book person or an authoritarian, this thread might cause seizures. I am also going to make this pic heavy, cause a picture is worth a thousand words and what would you prefer, pictures or a thousand words?
So lets break some rules!
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This is the last of my G-1. Some of the best epoxy I have ever used. Its also over 20yrs old!
Since this is a build with vintage wood, I thought why not use vintage glue? The resin was crystalized and the hardener was gelled, so I thought I better get them back to a liquid state in some hot water.
I measure all my epoxy by weight and for this riser I mixed up about 15g, which is twice as much as needed, but wanted some extra to check the color in the cured resin.
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Here it is all bagged and in my mini oven.
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This is the third time I have used this reflective ducting as an oven and I really like it. When the inside temp was up to 150deg, the outside of the foil was under 70deg! Heat gun is set on second lowest temp and the housing near the tip stayed in the 80-90deg range
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Post by: Mad Max on December 20, 2021, 09:17:05 AM
Post by: Flem on December 20, 2021, 09:37:11 AM
I set my vacuum pump to 15in of mercury, it will pull 25in at my elevation (4000'), but thats overkill for this glue up.
Quality supersedes quantity and in this case vacuum, with its even 360deg pressure and air extraction is very effective.
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How much pressure is 15hg you ask?? 7.3psi
Here it is fresh out of the bag [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
Glue lines look pretty good [ You are not allowed to view attachments ]
I think I broke another rule regarding cook time. G-1 is a 24hr cure@70deg, but I only cook for 1hr@ 150deg+
Here is the extra colored resin, pulled out at 45min. Its rock hard.
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Solo cups start to melt at 150deg.
I'm really liking this color! Looks a bit more yellow in person.
Here is a tip for monitoring temperature, drill a hole in and put your thermocouple inside a similar sized piece of material to the one you are cooking to get an accurate reading where it matters most.
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 20, 2021, 09:48:50 AM
Post by: Buemaker on December 20, 2021, 12:11:33 PM
Post by: Appalachian Hillbilly on December 20, 2021, 01:25:35 PM
Post by: Flem on December 21, 2021, 07:18:19 PM
I did rough out the riser
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Grain flows pretty good, almost OK for under clear. Don't know if I will ever use Teak again. I love the color, but its got open grain and seems brittle. I'm not worried about its strength, or the glue's. I took a mallet and beat the crap out of the off cuts. No glue failures, just wood. Pretty good for 22 yr old epoxy.
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Post by: Flem on December 22, 2021, 11:06:28 PM
This bow will only have two pairs, for a stack of .410 It's heavy wood, but it feels snappy. I decided to add an uncoupling membrane between the two pairs. It acts as a shear plane to reduce the effect of the glue line. My desire is to establish the shear plane(glue line) as close to what would be the neutral plane in the stack. It's only .008 thick, but it also works as a vibration damper, which can be helpful with heavy limbs.
Tough to get any fetching pictures of an ASL in pieces, not that I did not try :banghead:
Post by: Roy from Pa on December 23, 2021, 04:24:22 AM
What's the flies name?
Post by: Buemaker on December 23, 2021, 08:04:10 AM
Post by: Stagmitis on December 23, 2021, 08:32:34 AM
Post by: Flem on December 23, 2021, 10:09:59 AM
It's the real deal from Mexico. Lemmonwood grows in a limited area, down in the southern tropical region.
The membrane is a viscoelastic polymer. They call it VDF, vibration damping foil.
Post by: mmattockx on December 23, 2021, 10:55:11 AM
I decided to add an uncoupling membrane between the two pairs. It acts as a shear plane to reduce the effect of the glue line.
What is the effect of the glue line?
Mark
Post by: Flem on December 23, 2021, 11:11:11 AM
I think its beneficial to look at all the small factors that combine to make a bow with the attributes you want to achieve. That and its fun to experiment :laugh:
Post by: Shredd on December 23, 2021, 01:11:43 PM
Post by: Flem on December 23, 2021, 05:07:05 PM
Post by: Mad Max on December 23, 2021, 05:13:22 PM
Post by: Flem on December 23, 2021, 05:58:56 PM
As far a one aspect of the physical properties go, this stuff is similar in its damping/absorbing ability.
https://www.d3o.com
Post by: Shredd on December 23, 2021, 07:24:31 PM
Post by: Stagmitis on December 24, 2021, 09:15:43 AM
Post by: Flem on December 24, 2021, 09:22:16 AM
Post by: OldRawhide42 on December 24, 2021, 10:12:35 AM
Post by: Flem on December 24, 2021, 10:54:51 AM
Post by: Stagmitis on December 26, 2021, 08:28:43 AM
Post by: Flem on December 26, 2021, 09:23:22 AM
Post by: Flem on December 26, 2021, 09:47:15 AM
This is exciting for me, its a new tool, or form for making fiberglass laminate.
Yes its just a slab of formica covered particleboard, but its special formica :goldtooth:
Its surprising how textured, even smooth looking formica can be. If you are going to make laminate your tool needs to be dead smooth. Glass is the best surface, but a 6'X6" slab of glass is heavy, needs a support base which adds more weight and makes it hard to move around or put in my hot box, plus nothing can be fastened to it.
So I am always on the look out for some smooth material. I happened to find a slab of this old counter at Habitat for Humanity resale store, its that old 60's or 70's stuff that was hard and very smooth. The stuff you did not want to scratch or face the wrath of Mom! I've got enough of it for three forms. These forms don't last forever. Its amazing what the epoxy will do to the surface, even though it technically does not bond to the surface, over the course of many uses, it slowly eats away at it.
Should be ready to go this week. Just have to finish drilling and then 5 coats of hard release wax.
Its already pretty glossy just from cleaning and buffing.
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Post by: mmattockx on December 26, 2021, 11:55:42 AM
For instance: https://www.busybeetools.com/products/slick-plate-36in-x-4in-x-1-8in.html
Mark
Post by: Flem on December 26, 2021, 12:26:17 PM
Post by: Mad Max on December 26, 2021, 01:02:32 PM
Post by: Flem on December 26, 2021, 09:53:06 PM
Post by: Mad Max on December 27, 2021, 08:25:52 AM
Machined the sides of flat stock.
Never tried to machine flat
Post by: Flem on December 27, 2021, 10:08:05 AM
Never tried it. I know that while hand planing, if you did not take a deep enough cut to make a continuous chip, it was an exercise in futility.
Post by: Stagmitis on December 29, 2021, 08:00:23 PM
Post by: Flem on December 29, 2021, 09:27:45 PM
Post by: Mad Max on December 29, 2021, 09:47:34 PM
Post by: Flem on December 29, 2021, 10:41:43 PM
Turns out my bench top heat box experiment is more than just a curiosity. Did I dry run with my glass form and all the connections for infusion and its not going to fit in my hot box. So I dialed in the bench top heat collector.
Five pieces, one bench vice and two shoelaces. The angled ends collect some heat, 40deg warmer than with vertical ends. I also fastened a diffuser for the hot center section, out of vent screen material. Sets up in a couple minutes. Have to keep a constant watch on it the first time :scared:
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Post by: Longcruise on December 30, 2021, 02:27:55 AM
Steamin! See what I mean, everybody likes a big, fresh, happy, pile of poo :thumbsup:
Turns out my bench top heat box experiment is more than just a curiosity. Did I dry run with my glass form and all the connections for infusion and its not going to fit in my hot box. So I dialed in the bench top heat collector.
Five pieces, one bench vice and two shoelaces. The angled ends collect some heat, 40deg warmer than with vertical ends. I also fastened a diffuser for the hot center section, out of vent screen material. Sets up in a couple minutes. Have to keep a constant watch on it the first time :scared:
Looks downright interstellar. :)
Post by: Flem on December 30, 2021, 08:51:15 AM
Post by: Mark R on December 30, 2021, 11:45:57 AM
Post by: Flem on December 31, 2021, 01:02:01 PM
Its a veil fabric that prevents print thru from the other reinforcements when under vacuum pressure. It adds no weight and is invisible when wet out. They make it from glass, kevlar or carbon. I'm using kevlar, because its already a yellow tint and I had some from another project. The choice of material is not critical when making opaque, colored composite.
The method by which Gordon's, Bearpaw, Excel, etc. make their glass, is called pultrusion. Picture a huge rack with hundreds of fiber spools, all feeding into a tiny 2"X.050" die, then all those aligned threads getting pulled thru a resin bath, into a heated chamber and coming out the other end cured and close to its final dimension, excluding length.
Unfortunately this cannot be done at home. At least not by me! Trying to get the same results doing a wet lay up by hand is very difficult, ask anybody who has tried how much work it is and how many failures they have had.
One of the most difficult objectives, thats critical, is a good exterior side surface finish. It's possible to put down a color gel coat, but its hard to control the thickness with epoxy. It's not self leveling like paint and a thick epoxy rind on a flexible composite is not optimum.
So the veil, which becomes invisible when wet out, provides the correct rind thickness, reinforces it and prevents the fibers behind it from showing thru. It's not possible to use effectively though, unless you are doing a vacuum infusion. It needs to be held down flat and in place. Trying to wet out, by hand, reinforcement thats on top, will just cause it to bunch up. I've been going on and on about the stuff because to me its a critical of a component as the resin and the glass fiber
Post by: Bvas on December 31, 2021, 01:28:28 PM
I don’t see myself making any, but was very curious how you do it.
Post by: OldRawhide42 on December 31, 2021, 04:44:15 PM
Post by: mmattockx on January 01, 2022, 02:21:54 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMPSIKfkdtQ
You can skip through all the stuff at the beginning where they talk about the project the sleds are for if you just want to see the infusion setup and process.
Mark
Post by: Shredd on January 01, 2022, 03:32:03 PM
Unfortunately this cannot be done at home. At least not by me! Trying to get the same results doing a wet lay up by hand is very difficult, ask anybody who has tried how much work it is and how many failures they have had.
Tell me about it... LoL... Been there... Takes a while to get the hang of it and you have to use lots of resin so there is some waste...
Wish you Luck...
Post by: Flem on January 02, 2022, 10:33:47 AM
Unfortunately this cannot be done at home. At least not by me! Trying to get the same results doing a wet lay up by hand is very difficult, ask anybody who has tried how much work it is and how many failures they have had.
Tell me about it... LoL... Been there... Takes a while to get the hang of it and you have to use lots of resin so there is some waste...
Wish you Luck...
Its not for the person thats impatient or expects perfect results out of the gate, as you know Shredd ;)
It's taken me years to get to this point and its still not a guarantee of success!
I have watched so many infusion videos, I lost count. Just hoping to glean an important tidbit of info or technique.
I am not going to go deep into infusion in this thread, if someone needs more detail there are countless videos to be watched. I will only include specific details and materials that I have found to be useful for making pretensioned, unidirectional, resin infused bow laminate. Which I did not get to the last couple days and since you guys don't know any better, I will blame on my wife :biglaugh:
Post by: Flem on January 03, 2022, 03:01:20 PM
This is what the inside of the bag will look like before resin. Bottom, now buried layer is the kevlar veil, next is 850' of S-glass, on top of that is the blue peel ply, then the green infusion flow mesh and the small piece of white scotch pad will be where the resin line terminates to act as a diffuser.
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Post by: Longcruise on January 03, 2022, 03:25:01 PM
Post by: Flem on January 03, 2022, 03:55:04 PM
Post by: Flem on January 03, 2022, 04:11:57 PM
65/35. I am going to try a couple new to me products, which I hope will get me closer to the goal.
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 03, 2022, 05:21:36 PM
:wavey:
Post by: Flem on January 03, 2022, 05:57:08 PM
As in real slow time :laughing: Word to the wise, be careful what you ask for :saywhat:
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 03, 2022, 07:15:56 PM
Post by: Flem on January 03, 2022, 07:29:51 PM
Post by: Bvas on January 04, 2022, 07:12:10 PM
Would love to see how you tension all those strands.
Post by: Longcruise on January 04, 2022, 07:31:01 PM
:coffee:
Would love to see how you tension all those strands.
Me too
Post by: Mad Max on January 04, 2022, 07:56:13 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on January 04, 2022, 08:44:22 PM
Post by: Flem on January 04, 2022, 10:06:40 PM
Can you imagine what a lengthy, tedious, PIA that is?
:biglaugh: :banghead: :biglaugh:
Post by: Stagmitis on January 10, 2022, 08:42:28 AM
Post by: Shredd on January 10, 2022, 08:35:58 PM
I realized today when looking at my notes that I had used 1700' of S-glass, not 850'.
Can you imagine what a lengthy, tedious, PIA that is?
:biglaugh: :banghead: :biglaugh:
Yes..!! Yes, I do... When I made glass it was about a foot wide...
Post by: OldRawhide42 on January 10, 2022, 08:53:01 PM
Post by: Shredd on January 11, 2022, 01:16:36 AM
Post by: Flem on January 13, 2022, 11:03:13 AM
Dang thats over 1/3 mile. Good thing you didnt have to walk it :pray:
Hell I'm just glad I didn't forget what I was doing half way thru and wander off :jumper:
The only reason to make your own glass, is because nobody makes what you want. Homemade will not compare to manufactured and composite made with an open layup, will have a terrible resin to reinforcement ratio. Infused or vacuum pressed is much better, but still inferior to pultruded products.
I make my own because I like odd colors and effects.
Post by: Stagmitis on January 13, 2022, 05:49:15 PM
Post by: Flem on January 16, 2022, 03:25:38 PM
I don't have or would know how to use any modeling or simulation programs, so I have to scribble and try to visualize the process as it will hopefully be happening.
First thing I noticed was that I needed ports in the insulation for the tubing. I also decided to heat the form from the bottom with some green house heat mats. I want to avoid a temperature gradient that might retard the flow at the bottom of the form, which will be the show side of the glass. Epoxy flows better when its warm, but the pot life is reduced. So I'm thinking I will keep the pot away from any heat sources and as the epoxy flows into the form it should disperse and move faster. We will see if thats true :scared:
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Another thing I changed was my resin infusion point medium. I have previously only used the scotch pad material as an air evac channel, not for diffusion. I don't know if it will get to compacted to flow resin well, so I decided to make a manifold by drilling a bunch of holes in a plastic T. I need the resin to flow in two directions, so hopefully this will avoid any constrictions. I could not find any similar examples to what I am attempting, so I'm a little nervous.
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Two of the new to me products I'm trying out are the white tubing and the black cylinder attached to the clear tubing
The white stuff is vacuum line that is encased in a liquid impermeable sleeve. The black cylinder is a pressure balancing valve of some nature. I am hopeful they both work as advertised, because if they do it will eliminate the pressure gradient from inlet to outlet, moderate the resin feed rate and eliminate the need for a resin trap and optimize the epoxy/glass ratio. We shall see!
So this is what the form looks like, ready for a leak test. That reminds me of another new to me product. I using a nylon film to cover the form, rather than a full plastic sleeve as I have in the past. This system uses 75% less plastic, so I really hope it works well.
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Getting close! Got the color mixed into pt.A. Looks like neon snot. It's either going to look way cool on a bow, or truly
heinous. I used some basic pantone colors that came in a sample pack from Smooth-On. This color was 30drops of yellow, 1drop of blue and 1drop white. It's very chartreuse in person :goldtooth:
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Then its getting degassed in this paint pot that got converted to vacuum
Oh Man, I'm starting to get really nervous now. :laughing:
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Post by: Roy from Pa on January 16, 2022, 03:50:05 PM
Post by: Mad Max on January 16, 2022, 04:18:50 PM
Post by: Bvas on January 16, 2022, 06:26:03 PM
Apparently the fiberglass tensioning technique is a trade secret? :dunno:
Post by: Mad Max on January 16, 2022, 07:22:25 PM
Post by: Flem on January 17, 2022, 10:30:57 AM
I like the color Flem. :thumbsup:
Apparently the fiberglass tensioning technique is a trade secret? :dunno:
For now :)
Tell us about the fiberglass strands, cloth too ? :dunno:
The blue cloth in the layup picture is peel ply, it allows a clean release of everything you don't want to stick to the composite, mostly the green flow mesh.
The fiberglass strands are called roving or tow or yarn or whatever. It's a cluster of tiny glass fibers. Like 24 thousand per strand.
I like the color too! It might be an acquired taste for most folks :o
And boy am I glad I did not catalyze it before I did a leak test on the bag. Holy crap! I was chasing leaks all afternoon. Apparently there is a learning curve to getting the film sealed well. I can see one advantage of using the plastic sleeve method. There is only about 20" of plastic to seam and I heat seal it. This film has about 170" of perimeter that has to be sealed with sticky butyl tape to the form. I'm going to fuss with it a bit more and hope for the best before I tear it off and do it again, more carefully :banghead:
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Post by: Flem on January 17, 2022, 01:41:22 PM
Post by: Flem on January 17, 2022, 03:47:46 PM
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I used the black tape around the exhaust tubes, it really going to suck getting that out of there :tongue:
The pipe is my amplifying tube for pinpointing leaks. It helps, but some type of leak detector would be priceless right now.
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Post by: flyonline on January 17, 2022, 04:26:51 PM
Post by: Flem on January 17, 2022, 04:44:19 PM
I even attached a cup on the end. Didn't work either way. It does not seem to pick up sound waves from air movement. I put it on an identified, big leak and got nothing
Now I'm sitting around trying to figure out if I can inject some silicone or caulk as a stop gap. It's going to be a big mess if I have to re-bag
Post by: Bvas on January 17, 2022, 05:01:18 PM
But couldn’t you just move the form to a warmer in environment to allow the tape to regain its sticky quality?
Also, can you put low pressure on the bag and just do a smoke check for leaks?
Post by: Flem on January 17, 2022, 05:49:30 PM
I was checking out these ultrasonic leak detectors they make for vacuum and pressure, but even the cheap ones are spendy and then I have to wait for it. Have to decide if this is the way I want to do this going forward and is the detector worthwhile. Most of these leaks would be of no concern if I was doing a glue up, but with infusion any leaks, even minuscule nano holes will cause of streak of air bubbles in the glass.
Post by: flyonline on January 17, 2022, 06:01:37 PM
I’m on my phone so can’t see photos well, are you using a tube style bag around the form or sticking the plastic film to the form?
Post by: Mad Max on January 17, 2022, 06:02:47 PM
Post by: Bvas on January 17, 2022, 06:06:24 PM
Post by: OldRawhide42 on January 17, 2022, 06:24:31 PM
Post by: Flem on January 17, 2022, 06:50:47 PM
I figured contamination could pose a problem with smoke. That’s why I wondered if you could pressurize the system instead of vacuum.
Thats funny because the first thing I did was blow some smoke at the bag before it dawned on me that I would never be able to see it inside that compressed mass :knothead: I'm scared to put the smoke in either way
I don't want anybody to think I am blaming this on the tape, it may have its limitations, but this was operator error.
I am glad the thread title fits now :bigsmyl:
Rawhide, I wish I could do that, but it would contaminate all the materials inside.
I did have an idea. So I put the bag under vacuum and I filled a couple trouble areas with this flowable silicone. I'm thinking the vacuum should pull the liquid into the the gaps. Going to let it cure and see what happened. Fingers crossed.
Post by: Bvas on January 17, 2022, 07:52:32 PM
Post by: Stagmitis on January 27, 2022, 06:08:22 PM
Post by: Shredd on January 27, 2022, 08:22:24 PM
As for finding leaks it needs to be quiet so I have a long tube going to my pump which is outside... I run my hand over where I think I here a leak... It usually changes in sound when your hand goes over it...
* I am not sure how duct tape fairs if it is really cold...
Post by: flyonline on January 28, 2022, 08:33:12 PM
Wondered since if you could use a funnel over a leak to narrow down the area.
Post by: Shredd on January 29, 2022, 12:43:25 AM
Or do you have a link of a video on how it's done??
Sounds like a great idea...
Post by: flyonline on January 29, 2022, 05:06:22 AM
it came about because Adam in the video below was instrumental in quite a few guys taking up bladder inflated wet seam layups (including myself), but he was using a pizza cutter that had been heated. I tried it and found it difficult to get a consistent weld (as did Adam), so I looked around my shop one day wondering what would work better and my eye fell on my soldering iron that was sitting on the bench. I tried it and it worked a charm so I posted the idea and away it went. The seam sealing is in the first few minutes so you don't have to watch the whole 14min or so.
Like everything in composite work, just because I say it worked for me, doesn't mean it'll work for you - nor will my materials/techniques necessarily work for you (and vice versa) so it might take a lot of experimenting to work it out. I had a pretty low wattage soldering iron, but that was with thin garbage bags to get into compound corners and small steps. For bags I ended up using thicker painters drop sheet and some really thick vinyl(?) which took a lot more heat, and from memory I rounded off a bolt and replaced the tip of the iron with that. You can do any shape you want, but for strait lines like bags I found it best to run it along the a low heat sink straight edge like a piece of smooth timber.
Play around with pulling v pushing, angled vs perpendicular to the bench, tip shape, heat level etc., but you should be able to get a pretty consistent weld.
https://vimeo.com/10665397
Post by: Shredd on January 29, 2022, 05:49:26 AM
Post by: Mad Max on February 07, 2022, 09:19:04 PM
Post by: Roy from Pa on February 08, 2022, 07:37:07 AM
Post by: Mad Max on February 08, 2022, 07:53:10 AM
Post by: Flem on February 17, 2022, 02:10:34 PM
Oh yeah, I ran away from my botched job! Needed some time to think about this after chasing a leak, unsuccessfully for many hours. Not that I did not try hard.
I wrapped my pump in muffling quilts.
I made and modified listening devices, that I found out don’t help with ultrasonic vacuum frequencies.
I turned on the pump and flowed silicone around the perimeter of the film. Still leaking, won’t build more vacuum than about 10”hg. I’m looking for 25”hg.
Last week, after running every scenario I could think of, over and over in my head, light bulb moment. I had drilled a number of holes into the form, but did not seal the exposed material beneath the formica! I was sucking a steady stream of air right thru the particle board into the holes. Major oversight. I need to fill all the holes with epoxy and re-drill them, plus do through job of sealing the edges. But that will have to wait till I finish this current layup.
I was dying to get home and see if I could bag the whole shebang in 4mil plastic and salvage the work and materials invested so far.
Looks like it should work OK. Pulled and held full vacuum. The plastic is not very stretchy, so bridging can be an issue where the fittings are located, but they are also at the tail end of the infusion path and should not be a factor. I will have some bridging at the resin inlet port/manifold, so I adjusted my usage estimate up. Resin can pool in areas that are bridged and starve other areas of the laminate.
Just about ready to run the new configuration!
The yellow tape is the poop.
Super gooey, sticks like crazy to everything with a little pressure. If it was any softer it would be liquid.
It’s all I will use from now on, at least in the cold months.
It’s perfect for sealing, thru the bag plumbing.
Post by: Mad Max on February 17, 2022, 07:40:49 PM
Post by: Flem on April 11, 2022, 03:41:19 PM
Definitely never doing this in a LDPE bag again. It impossible to find leaks and this one got bad fast.
Thats as far as the infusion progressed before the epoxy gelled.
Now I get to dissect it. I will save the dry glass and chop it up. Some of the the other fabrics and tubing is salvageable. Not sure what to do with the big disc of green epoxy. Good thing my time is cheap :banghead:
Post by: katalyzt on April 11, 2022, 10:54:08 PM
Keep it up man, I'm psyched to see what comes after that little baby poo splatter you have laying there. It is a nice color though :thumbsup:
Post by: Flem on April 12, 2022, 09:06:20 AM
I figure I might as well share my failures, or success. My ego needs a thrashing now and again :campfire:
I have the color formula. I will make this work. Might take some more experimenting, but I hope not too much!
Post by: Mad Max on April 12, 2022, 09:11:06 AM
I can see if you had a good bag and used it many times you would have a bow that was lime green and all done. :thumbsup:
Post by: Flem on April 13, 2022, 05:16:53 PM
This was my first attempt at a unidirectional reinforced, infused laminate. It's different from a typically reinforced laminate, because with all the fibers running in one direction only, they nestle together very tightly. That and the resin does not travel laterally as well without the cross fibers of normal fabric reinforcements.
The short section that did infuse came in at the thickness I was hoping for, lucky guess based on weight and volume.
It's .063-.071, which is good because I want to be able to sand one side. At that thickness, I calculated the ratio in the range of 65/35-70/30 fiber/resin. It looks real dense, but I sill find it hard to believe.
Might have to do a burn test to double check ratio.
Its more translucent than I thought it would be. I used 1% colorant, to total resin weight. Smooth-On recommend 1-3%, so I will double it too 2%.
Of course it looks completely different with a solid wood background.
Post by: Flem on April 20, 2022, 01:58:34 PM
I mixed up 30cc and used all but 1or2cc It just kept sucking it up. Stuff is very porous.
That made me curious about how much free air there could be in the form. Most solid wood is recognized to be around 40% air by volume. Considering how porous the P.B. is, I'm thinking more like 60%
Which means my form, by volume contains 230 cubic inches of air. A gallon is 231cuin
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Post by: Flem on April 24, 2022, 08:58:12 AM
Scraping this form, not spending any more time trying to make it work.
I have a a few sheets of MDF stashed in my shop and some older tooling epoxy that needs to be used, so I thought why not make my own form?
Here it is with the first coat
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It's showing some fish eyes. The sheet was showing some dirt and stains from age. I should have sanded it more and with 150, not 320, but I did not want to disturb the surface and have it swell up from the epoxy. Turns out it would not have mattered, now I have to sand the epoxy. Fortunately I have enough epoxy for a second coat. I was surprised at how well the epoxy self leveled.
I poured it on the MDF and spread it around with a wennie roller, then swept over it with a heat gun on low.
It also picked up some debris while curing. I used a slow hardener. Second coat will get a 10min hardener and be thinner, so it should set up real fast.
This form is bigger that the last. I made it large enough to be able to lay a sheet of glass on, which will be the new work surface.
Post by: Flem on April 25, 2022, 10:08:00 AM
If any of you were thinking, maybe I will separate a double pane window, sounds like fun! It's not
Unless of course you think cutting up a car tire with a utility knife is also fun.
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But I needed a new tool surface for the form
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I had to strain the chunks out of the epoxy. Most would have tossed it, not this cheap S.O.B.
Not only am I using chunky epoxy, but I am mixing two different hardeners from other product lines.
Just for fun :bigsmyl:
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Post by: mmattockx on April 25, 2022, 10:38:01 AM
Unless of course you think cutting up a car tire with a utility knife is also fun.
:biglaugh: :biglaugh:
Thanks for the morning laugh, Flem. I'm enjoying your journal, keep it rolling.
Mark
Post by: Flem on April 26, 2022, 09:04:14 AM
I figured out how to eliminate most of the penetrations that were giving me grief with the formica covered particle board. Not that the MDF is porous, its hard to imagine there is any free air in the stuff.
The new form base will have only 4 holes. And if you were wondering about the pullout strength of MDF, I could not pull this M5 knife thread insert using a crow bar for leverage. No glue
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Today I am going to do the burn test on my salvaged sample from the last attempt. I'm dying to know the glass volume fraction. The kiln is way too big for this little scrap of composite, but I don't have any other oven capable of 1000+ degrees
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Post by: Stagmitis on April 26, 2022, 07:17:21 PM
Post by: Stagmitis on April 26, 2022, 07:18:07 PM
Post by: Buggs on July 20, 2022, 04:58:18 PM
Too find out how this guy makes laminate!! In fact part of the reason I joined up here was to ask some questions.
But the OP of this thread does not accept PM's!!??
Anybody know what the story is?? Hope nothing tragic happened to him :scared:
Post by: Shredd on July 20, 2022, 05:49:03 PM
Post by: Buggs on July 20, 2022, 06:29:14 PM
Post by: Longcruise on July 20, 2022, 06:30:51 PM
https://www.traditionalarcherysociety.com/forum/main-campsite
Post by: Buggs on July 20, 2022, 06:44:17 PM